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On May 06 2012 02:37 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 18:31 wherebugsgo wrote: Sheth, two questions:
what was the purpose of saying in thread you were giving votes to Cephiro/what did you get out of it?
Why did you choose to tell Meapak that you were lying and not anyone else? The point of saying that I was giving my votes to Cephiro was primarily to get information out of syllogism and his group. I figured this would set them off and I'd learn from it. Ironically I learned a ton from PM'ing with Cephiro about this action. It also stirred up some people and some people ignored it or thought it looked ok. So mainly I just got a great read on Syllogism with it. Who I think is townie now a days. I didn't only tell Meapak. The reason for telling meapak was just that it felt fine. I couldn't spread it to too many people and telling meapak is a two edged sword. If more then one person votes on Cephiro and provides him plenty of votes then theres a good chance someone I told was mafia. If they didn't get a great amount of votes then I trust that person slightly more at little to no cost to me. I realize its not "great" play, but I just wanted to gain a little more knowledge from people outside of the thread. And it worked out ok for me.
What do you mean by the bold? You think Cephiro is mafia and his scumbuddies would give him votes or something?
Anyways, so you are saying that all your behaviour last day was a façade to figure out syllo's alignment? Even you being "unsure" about everybody and ignoring everything happening in the thread and everybody else?
Couldn't you just try to figure out syllo's alignment or his group by reading their posts or PMing them directly? You decided to play as scummy as possible to do so?
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That's a gross understatement.
You didn't just "vote for cephiro"; you said you were uncertain about him, said you gave him all your 5 votes as soon as the day started, never mentioned him again and all the while you acted wishy-washy as hell, didn't have any reads whatsoever and ignored most things that happened in the thread.
Okey Sheth, now that your "plan" is over, why don't you contribute more? Why don't you give more specific reads other than "he's 60% mafia because of something that happened on D1, I think, I'm unsure"?
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What does the fact that it's night have to do with anything?
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Damn. This makes me feel better about Katina though, Foolishness was VERY sure she was town
Why are there only 1 kill each night though? Aren't there 2 mafia families?
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On May 07 2012 01:30 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I was coaching someone at that time period. Do you want me to have the guy pm you verifying my alibi?
Syllogism asked if I would post who I told about my putting 5 votes on Cephiro not being real and those were the 2 messages that I sent in PM's. You can ask Meapak if its not exactly correct Anyway thats the context for those two quotes.
Hey, it's day now, I guess you have time to "answer" my questions now and start contributing right?
On May 06 2012 22:14 prplhz wrote: so what's going to happen today?
prp, I haven't seen post at all lately, and I think I haven't seen any read of yours the whole game What are your thoughts on Cephiro/Sheth/sandro?
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Guess I'm in the majority again.
About Sheth:
What wbg says makes sense. You could have lied about telling people you PMed more than 1 person, and so you forged a PM with your scumbuddy. Even if you hadn't lied, you could have forged the PMs before saying it and planning it too to gain town cred if BC flipped.
The way I see it your PM doesn't make sense in the context of the game:
- If you didn't think BC was town:
Why would you PM him about your bluff then? That wouldn't make sense, you would PM your town reads about it
- If you thought BC was town:
Then why didn't you PM him more? You are telling me that you PMed a town read of yours ONLY ONCE, and only did that to explain your "bluff"? It would make sense that if you thought BC was town you would have PMed him more and not just have a lousy PM that doesn't even talk about the game at all
Either way, even if this is false, then you are still mafia from the other team, so it's irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that you haven't defended yourself against any accusations. I've called you out on not giving a single read or contributing at all, and when you DID it was wishy-washy as hell and just wrong, like you didn't even cared about making those reads. Yet here you are still doing nothing and just defending yourself, and you don't even care about scumhunting nor about the game
We should kill Sheth today.
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EBWOP:
Meapak/chaoser, contribute more, post reads, or just do any shit and care about the game or you are dead too.
I don't know if we can pull off a multiple-lynch though. If we put Meapak/chaoser/Sheth up for the lynch, it's possible someone may even give some votes to Sheth (scumbuddy or stupid town) and save him.
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On May 07 2012 13:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 13:10 gonzaw wrote:Guess I'm in the majority again. About Sheth:What wbg says makes sense. You could have lied about telling people you PMed more than 1 person, and so you forged a PM with your scumbuddy. Even if you hadn't lied, you could have forged the PMs before saying it and planning it too to gain town cred if BC flipped. The way I see it your PM doesn't make sense in the context of the game: - If you didn't think BC was town:
Why would you PM him about your bluff then? That wouldn't make sense, you would PM your town reads about it
- If you thought BC was town:
Then why didn't you PM him more? You are telling me that you PMed a town read of yours ONLY ONCE, and only did that to explain your "bluff"? It would make sense that if you thought BC was town you would have PMed him more and not just have a lousy PM that doesn't even talk about the game at all
Either way, even if this is false, then you are still mafia from the other team, so it's irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that you haven't defended yourself against any accusations. I've called you out on not giving a single read or contributing at all, and when you DID it was wishy-washy as hell and just wrong, like you didn't even cared about making those reads. Yet here you are still doing nothing and just defending yourself, and you don't even care about scumhunting nor about the game We should kill Sheth today. He didn't reply back to me. "Either way, even if this is false, then you are still mafia from the other team, so it's irrelevant." That quote is pretty bad. As for you calling me out, you've just asked stupid questions repeatedly. If you think thats calling me out then you're just crazy. How can someone both do nothing and defend oneself? As for scumhunting I'm look at ET and I've already said you look pretty bad forever ago I just haven't made a huge case on it.
I don't really care about your PM with BC, that's the point, it could be legit or not (although I'm inclined to think it's not). What I do care about is your behaviour and your play this game.
How can someone both do nothing and defend oneself?
Why are you avoiding the issue and just argue semantics?
Here, I'll rephrase:
"Yet here you are still doing nothing other than just defending yourself...".
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Ehmm, asking you why you are not contributing or why you don't have any meaningful reads is not "dumb".
Whatever I'm not gonna argue with you, it's obvious you are just dodging the issue
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On May 07 2012 22:26 prplhz wrote:I think you're painting a wrong picture of this situation when you say that it's according to "my reads", sounds like we're just doing whatever I feel like, which is not really true. I'm not claiming to have figured out the remaining 5 scum, I read the thread and listened to people and general consensus appears to be that those 5 are likely scum (and everybody else is likely town), so why not lynch them?
Yea, my plan actually accounts for how you, as a townie, might mess it up just to piss me off. You're in red. I don't really see why any townie would mess stuff up just to piss someone else off though. If you feel like somebody is scum or whatever then there are clearly better ways to go about than to just try to mess everything up.
prplhz, what are your exact reads (and not "general consensus")? Well, apparently your reads are those you marked in read in that list, but why? You haven't brought forward any reasoning for any scum read since the game started if I remember.
@chaoser: Can you give any reasoning why you think those are mafia? I asked you why you thought ET was mafia before and you never answered. Now you think Sheth is mafia all of a sudden and you don't say why either.
@sloosh: Again, do you have any scumreads either?
Geez what's up with you people? You guys are making this game quite frustrating by deliberately doing no scumhunting at all.
Can you add sloosh's filter to the filter list?
On May 08 2012 02:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I've figured out why I'm being targeted like this btw.
If you are mafia you actually want to kill other mafia. So that makes sense that syllo's mafia play would still be this hunting really badly for the other house. Anyway I'm town, and I think my flip will actually help town more then anything else I can do because you guys seem to just assume I'm mafia regardless of what I say. Look at Gonzaw the kid has a good chance of being mafia.
lol
I'd say I'm still waiting for your actual "case" against me but I know you'll never make it.
About prplhz's plan:
I've already PMed wbg, but well I'll put it here as well. I don't think having these 3 lynch targets and trying to kill all of them at the same time is a good idea. I want Sheth lynched today, and that's very unlikely to happen if we do this. I'm sure Cephiro will give him all his 5 votes or something, and in prplhz's case sandroba/Meapak can give him some votes to save him as well. Even if they don't, Cephiro's votes suffice to save him. Even worse, Cephiro is obviously not cooperating, and is an obvious mafia that doesn't fear "getting caught" by voting as he pleases. If we leave the votes on chaoser/Sheth/Meapak at 0/0/0, Cephiro alone will be the one that will determine the lynch.
It's also apparent that not everybody will follow this plan in the strictest terms, and some people may slip some votes to one of chaoser/Sheth/Meapak to save them as well.
The point is that we will definitely control that at least 1 of these 3 will die, but we won't control who. Unless we are 100% sure all 3 are scum then this is obviously flawed.
I don't want to risk Sheth being saved, yet the townie out of chaoser/Meapak (if there is one) getting lynched instead. We should get the obvious mafia lynched first, in this case Sheth, then Cephiro once he's in the majority.
I think we should just give everybody except Sheth 8 votes and make it simple.
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On May 08 2012 03:26 prplhz wrote: @gonzaw They kind of my reads too, but I think Cephiro was painting it as how I just wanted everybody to sheep my bad reads. I was suggesting a plan that went along with general town consensus and that's important because everybody is needed to make it work.
Yes, I figured that out, but why are they "kind of your reads"? You can't come out of nowhere and just agree on the consensus, you need to put reasoning yourself
How can Liquid`Sheth survive if we go through with my plan? You are suggesting that he might survive if Cephiro gives Liquid`Sheth 5 votes and sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh gives him 4+ votes combined, but so what? They will be working directly against town wishes if they do that and confirm themselves as scum
@syllogism If we go through with the plan I suggested I don't see why we can't lynch three people today. There are 25 votes unaccounted for and split among 3 scum that is 9/9/7, which means that they can, if the two scum groups coordinate among themselves and out themselves in the process, save two people still leaving one dead. It's just too much risk for too little gain for scum and they'll most likely end up saving at very best one of the reds in my list. If you are so sure that they're all red then I have no idea why you are stalling with the, "it is unlikely that we can't lynch more than on today".
Eh, if 2 of those 3 players have 1 vote then they are still saved. No need to "out whole scumteams", Cephiro himself can do something like "Give Sheth 3 votes, give Meapak 2 votes" and get chaoser alone lynched for instance.
A player doesn't need 9 votes to save himself, he just needs to have more votes than someone else. Why does it matter if all 25 votes unaccounted go 9/9/7? That means that 2 of those players will have more votes than the other one. If the unaccounted votes go 2/2/1 or 1/1/0 it is the exact same thing. If everybody except those "unaccounted votes" followed your plan, then only 1 player with 2 votes could fuck up your entire plan by lynching someone of his choice. Considering Cephiro has expressed his lack of cooperation again and again, and is not afraid to troll us and do what he wants, it's not unlikely that he can choose to use the votes to choose the lynch himself.
Cephiro is already "outed" as scum, he has no risk whatsoever on giving Sheth/chaoser/Meapak votes, yet he has a tremendous gain since he single-handily decides the lynch.
Really, there are too many too townie people who think that these guys are a decent lynch, every excuse you can use not to go through with it is just crazy.
Sheth is obvious mafia. chaoser and Meapak are not, and there's the chance one of them may actually be town, even if unlikely. If that's true then scum can choose that one to lynch and we waste another day, and it may continue like this if we keep doing it.
The plan isn't even about lynching 3 people, it's about keeping 5 people alive.
Ehmm, you can keep those 5 people alive too if you give 9 votes to everybody except Sheth as well.
We cannot do better than this plan because then we would be compromising townies.
No we wouldn't, why would you say this? Give me/Katina/syllo/sloosh/Wiggles 8 votes to each. After that is done, start giving chaoser/Meapak votes until all votes are accounted for. There is no way Sheth can't be lynched in that case, and there is no way we would be "compromising townies".
I know that you're still suspicious of me wherebugsgo and gonzaw but can't you talk to syllogism or Palmar about this or something.
If you guys don't want to go through with this plan and you want to lynch only one then you have to use votes for the 5 greens in my list to spend on 2 of the reds, what votes do you intend to use for this? Which of the greens do you want to take votes away from to give to the reds?
Tell sandro to vote Meapak/chaoser. If he doesn't follow the plan and outs himself to give Sheth 5 votes or something, then well what can you do but at least you'll have a confirmed scum, and only chaoser/Meapak would get lynched.
chaoser and Meapak will surely cooperate I suppose, I mean, even if they are scum they would survive so they won't "out" themselves as scum to get lynched. You can always tell them to vote each other. Again, if one of them doesn't cooperate it outs himself as scum, and it would mean only one of chaoser/Meapak gets lynched
The only ones I could see not cooperating in this scenario are Cephiro and Sheth, but those 2 alone can't do shit to save Sheth if we give everybody votes except Sheth.
Also we tell Cephiro to only vote chaoser/Meapak (although I doubt he will listen)
We can also have players outside the sandroba/Sheth/Cephiro/chaoser/Meapak circle give some votes to chaoser/Meapak, and leave some other townies with 7 votes. In this case, if Cephiro/sandroba/etc do something weird to save Sheth, since they had votes on chaoser/Meapak in the first place it would mean one of chaoser/Meapak would get lynched instead of the townie with 7 votes.
With this plan, no townie (or at least no player outside the chaoser/Sheth/Meapak circle) will be compromised, and the ONLY way scum can save Sheth is to completely out 1 or 2 teammates as scum (and it will be obvious they do), and only chaoser/Meapak would get lynched. With your plan, it only takes Cephiro to do what he pleases to lynch any of Sheth/chaoser/Meapak as he sees fit without any risk, and yes if he saves Sheth only one of chaoser/Meapak is lynched.
You can see which option is better, since I know it's 80% likely Cephiro will do whatever the hell he wants and decide the lynch himself, I think he even said so before (but I don't really remember).
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I was thinking about something like this:
sandroba should give 2/3 votes to Meapak/chaoser (in whatever order) Meapak should give 5 votes to chaoser chaoser should give 5 votes to Meapak
If this goes according to plan, Meapak/chaoser will get 7/8 votes each, and even if Cephiro gives all 5 of his votes to Sheth, he can't save him unless sandroba outs himself as scum too.
Then, the other players circle trade votes between the other players of the majority.
Other tweaks could be made I guess, but unless someone else other than sandroba/Meapak/chaoser outs himself as scum and votes something completely different, then Sheth will be lynched.
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Yeah what sloosh says may be right too, have sandroba/Meapak/chaoser sprinkle votes unevenly between players.
Meh there may be other ways to do it, but while Cephiro is alive I won't follow prp's plan.
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Well, whatever I'm going to take a test in a few minutes and be back before the deadline, I won't vote until then just in case.
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On May 08 2012 05:32 prplhz wrote: I'm think that gonzaw/slOosh might be on to something here, if there's a townie in there then he's probably dead instead of any scum. This is probably not a great plan since I thought it up so I'm a bit worried that people are just going along with it for the most. I hope everybody plays along and we kill the three and then we see what comes out of it.
What do you mean that I'm "on to something here"?
Can you tell me why lynching Sheth alone is a bad plan?
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Anyways, I'll give an explanation for my votes (I'll have to give one anyways, might as well do it now): I have given my votes to chaoser and Meapak.
3 to Meapak and 2 to chaoser to be precise.
I've discussed this with wbg (and PMed syllo, apparently he was asleep >_> ), and I found that this was the best way to get Sheth lynched.
If everybody had just followed the plan right now, then scum could chose whoever they wanted for the lynch, and most likely save Sheth, and that's a very bad outcome for us if one of chaoser/Meapak is town.
This way, if Sheth ever gets 1 vote, or even 2 he gets lynched.
Why didn't I tell people? That way scum won't know that Meapak and chaoser got any votes. If they didn't know they'd get any votes, I thought they'd be more complacent and give Sheth less votes, since giving him lots of votes isn't necessary (if Meapak/chaoser have 0/0 votes, then giving Sheth 1 vote would suffice to save him).
I noticed how BC got 0 votes for him last day, so I figured it was likely Sheth wouldn't receive much votes even from his scumbuddies (unless Cephiro is one of them, like I said before), so I thought it was likely he'd get 1 or maybe 2 votes.
Because of this, if I'd get chaoser/Meapak to at least 2 votes, then Sheth (and possibly chaoser as well) would get lynched. Since I'd prefer chaoser lynched than Meapak, I gave Meapak more votes.
There is the possibilty Sheth has 5 or 6 votes right now, or even 3 and survives, but that would have happened whether I put my votes on Meapak/chaoser or not. However, since it's unlikley chaoser/Meapak/Sheth will get 5 or 6 votes EACH, then we don't lose anything and don't compromise other townies from the majority, assuming other people followed prp's plan and gave votes to those players.
So in short, by splitting the vote we wouldn't lose anything, but we'd have slightly more chances to get Sheth lynched.
Anyways let's hope for the best.
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*sigh*
At least I was right that Cephiro would try to determine the lynch by his own:
chaoser (7) Cephiro (5), gonzaw (2)
Normally I would ask you for your reasoning behind this, but I don't think it's needed.
I'm trying to figure out if you are scumbuddies with chaoser, or you just decided to get the easy lynch on Sheth first.
Also:
On May 08 2012 12:13 Liquid`Sheth wrote: G'luck Mafia ~
Wat?
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On May 08 2012 12:37 slOosh wrote: How extensively did you discuss this with WBG? I was under the impression that he wanted at least chaoser dead (had some reservations about Meapak). Could we get the PM logs?
Well, he said he prefered chaoser dead than Meapak, and I agree too, so I gave chaoser 2 votes instead of 3. In the event that Sheth gained a high amount of votes, then at least chaoser would get lynched.
Anyways, how do you get to quote the PMs all nested one over the other? I can only copy paste the text I guess there is no harm in posting them, we didn't discuss about other things either so it won't reveal much.
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To syllo:
On May 08 2012 20:45 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:25 gonzaw wrote: chaoser is another one. The thing that made me less confident about pushing him is that a lot of people were starting to think he was town all of a sudden, and I thought something was going on in PM-land that made them think that. Yet I didn't receive any info from anyone about this, and chaoser himself isn't responding to my PMs either, so I don't know wtf happened.
So I'm re-evaluating things in the light of what happened last night and noticed this. Who were the people who were starting to think he was town and did you PM them to ask why? Your playstyle is very aggressive, so I'm finding this explanation very dubious. Who have you been in PM contact with and can I see your logs?
I remember lots of people saying that (or something similar) in the thread. I don't specifically remember who, but Foolishness and wbg come to mind I think.
Foolishness even PMed me about that as well:
+ Show Spoiler [Foolshness PM] +Hi, yeah I was out for the evening so I was gone during the posting. No need to worry about me. I told Wiggles this as well but it seems to me that you and him and Cephiro are arguing over nothing. I'll take a closer look tomorrow to make sure but I really don't see what all the hubbub is about. I think it would be better to focus attention elsewhere. Personally I'd be happy with VE/sandroba dying. I'm skeptical about chaoser. I know I attacked him first but his reaction took me to thinking that he is town and that I'm mistaken. My case also hasn't garnered as much support as I thought it would. However lots of things don't add up. Right before day was half over he sent me this PM: Show nested quote +Original Message From chaoser: Hey, I was wondering what you thought of katina? can you pressure him a bit for me? This is the first thing he's sent me (I've never sent him anything either). I thought it was very odd that he would send this especially considering I was gunning for him earlier. I'm not quite sure what his goal was when he sent this to me. And why send it to me of all people? On the subject of Katina, yes I have been talking with her. I'm confident she is town. On what you noticed, she's usually very confident with her posting when she's town. In Arkham City she was mafia and there was a bit more hesitancy with her posts/accusations. Also her one post about mafia splitting 2-1 was pretty good. I haven't been talking to her about that so I'm assuming she figured it out on her own. I don't think a mafia would willingly reveal that sort of information to the town (hence I also think Ace is town). Anyways she's in the minority so this is not the proper time to worry about her. My idea goes along with what I've been saying in the thread. We as a town need to pick one or two people we want to kill. It's important we get a collective agreement on who (I realize this is incredibly difficult but bear with me). Once we have the people we want dead, we spread out votes on everyone else. Say we want to kill sandroba. That leaves 9 people we want to save. We have 90 votes to work with, so we have everyone spread out so that each 9 people get 10 votes. We do this in a way of spreading (that is, everyone will vote for 5 separate people instead of piling all 5 votes on one person). This way if someone tries to deviate to save sandroba (mafia or dumb townie or whatever) they will be unable to get enough votes to save him. I will post the above plan in the thread before I go to sleep now. Show nested quote +Original Message From gonzaw: Hey, you've been absent these last few hours in the game, I was getting kind of worried. What do you think about Cephiro?
And there's someone that caught my eye as well:
What do you think about Katina? Have you PMed with her yet? She acts quite confident with her posts when there really isn't any need to, and I find that quite odd.
Of course post in the thread if you can too, we need people to actually start posting in the thread and not on PM-land so this game isn't utterly destroyed by inactivity in the thread.
And we need to come up with some kind of strategy for Round B voting as well. I PMed Radfield about it but he didn't have any plan for now. Do you have any ideas?
I PMed wbg asking him why he thought chaoser was town too, yet he said he was "not sure" or something that didn't convince me either.
About chaoser:
Damn, I regret not getting him killed yesterday. I know what you are doing chaoser, you are doing the exact same thing BC did on Day 2. You are arguing and arguing against syllo/wbg/Palmar, discrediting them as much as you can, disrupting the thread as much as you can doing the whole "aggressive" act, and meanwhile you throw some half-assed FoSes around (like BC did with Katina/Foolishness).
Why did it took you so long to make a case against ET? Why are you making your first case and posting reasoning why you think someone is scum on NIGHT 3?
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