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On May 02 2012 05:55 Palmar wrote:
How is it in any way beneficial to fuck with me if you're town. Seriously, fuck you, you're being dumb.
Let me put this another way: How is it any way beneficial to work together with you if you're scum. Seriously, fuck you, go look in the mirror. (<3 the mirror image posted by Meapak)
On May 02 2012 05:57 Palmar wrote:
this game is stupid, arrogant and dumb townies or mafia are fucking with me and it's boring.
I'll spread my votes on anyone that isn't cephiro, chaoser, VE and sandroba I think. mostly gonna make sure rad and prplhz stay alive, probably wiggles too, he seems towny enough.
So, you start the game by claiming yourself King and moving on to asking everyone to claim to you. Sure, we're arrogant and dumb for not blindly believing in you. I'm sorry my lord, but if you want respect, earn it. If you claim to have the power to get me killed today, and all the other stuff you talked about, why would you care about a few dumb townies? Use your power oh mighty king.
On May 02 2012 06:13 gonzaw wrote:To Cephiro:Dude, I don't get wtf you are doing. Like really. People ask you reads and you start bickering about how you don't need to post them and you are "waiting for the right time" or some shit. Then, you accuse Palmar's "allies" (I guess you mean syllo) that they leak info, and when asked to justify yourself, you go on to spout some mystical bullshit about how "telling you the obvious wouldn't be fun" and shit. Really, you seem to act like Chezinu and those other guys that troll the hell out of games. But why the fuck would you troll this game if you were town? You can't say "Oh you can't use meta because good players change their meta". ...if you are town and play good you don't need to change your meta. In fact, being town you NEED to stay to your meta so people (even those "retards that use meta" (hyperbole here) that you talk about) have it easier to figure out you are town. I can't see any reason why you would willingly change your meta, or act different than it if you are town, specially since you played very good in that game as town; and now you are playing like shit, creating chaos with your bickering, not giving any reads or reasoning behind them, and just running around trolling people. I don't find any town motivation for you to act this way, so I still think you are scum. I'd like people to avoid voting you. Also, wtf is with this? + Show Spoiler +To everyone using "meta": What on earth is wrong with you people? Are you seriously saying that the TL players are so poor that you can just metagame them? How about playing based on what people do this game instead of comparing it to other games. I am starting to get fed up seeing the words "based on meta" come up in every few posts. Okay, if you don't like using meta yourself, then fine, don't use meta yourself. But are you really undermining every use of meta? Are you really saying that every player here is a "Mafia God" who can change metas as they will when they are scum and fool everybody 100% of the time or something? Players here can make mistakes or play badly every once in a while. When they do that as scum we do find them using meta. Why are you against this? Are you just going to assume everybody in this game is Akiyama or Yokoya and that you need elaborate plans and shit to catch them? Do you really think that or are you bluffing now to avoid doing anything constructive? If someone thinks Cephiro is town, please state why you think so.
If you really think the correct way for town in every situation is to play "calm and analytical", you're playing the wrong game. The "Basic Handbook Townie", is nowhere neal optimal play in several cases, and there are various valid reasons why one shouldn't. Again I repeat, if you think that or cannot come up for the reasons why, you're playing the wrong game.
So tell me this, is it easier to change up your meta to deceive others, or is it easier to read the meta of another player with full certainty?
On May 02 2012 07:18 EchelonTee wrote:RE: The gonzaw/Cephiro back and forthShow nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:10 gonzaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Cephiro:Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this: I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you. The two bolded parts are the significant parts of gonzaw case, and ones that I find to be pretty true; Cephiro was initially active but since has done no scumhunting. This is especially ironic considering his response:
So simply because I was on when the game started and opposed a few plans I was initially active and did scumhunting? No. I have since done no scumhunting? False. Just because I don't scumhunt in the way I did in one game, or in a way you expect me to, does not mean I am not doing it.
Unless something drastical happens, my votes today will be split between VE & MZ.
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On May 02 2012 08:55 gonzaw wrote:
Wtf? You are still confusing the hell out of me.
What do you mean by "playing the wrong game"?
And what the hell is up with the bolded question? Why the hell would you even try to change up your meta to deceive others if you are town?
I simply mean that you should not be playing Mafia if you do not understand the points I have addressed.
There is no such thing as "confirmed town meta", as the same player could simply act towards his "confirmed town meta", if he were scum. As I said, not in every situation is playing a calm and analytical town optimal play.
But let's continue this in PMs, unless you still wish to continue your useless bitchslaps at me in the thread?
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On May 02 2012 09:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
wtf why are you wasting votes on VE?
Because I don't think he should die yet.
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On May 02 2012 09:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
and yet you've offered no alternative?
I like how your reasoning is "because he shouldn't die yet" and not "because I think VE is town."
you have no balls, scum.
Votes are used to keep someone alive no? Not voting is essentially lynching.
He is certainly not the towniest person out there, but he should by no means be the first person to get killed. There are players that are much more concerning to me.
PS: I just checked and I was right, I do still have a pair of balls.
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On May 02 2012 09:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
again, LIKE WHOM?
You keep saying he shouldn't be the first to die and there are others who need to die. The day ends in less than 3 hours and you haven't enlightened us about who those people are.
If he's not the towniest person out there and your previous rationale for voting was to vote people who you thought were town, why the hell is your vote on him?
prplhz & sandroba
Do you think I am magically going to convince the town to not vote for them after all the back & forth crap with gonzaw?
Please point out where I have said the bolded. I am not using my votes to simply stack them up on my strongest townreads, as I feel it is more important for me to save VE from getting killed currently.
If I feel there are more likely persons scum than VE, and VE is about to die, why should I let him die?
Also, I am also voting for my strong townreads, (MZ), as I want try to ensure that no tricky disco maneuvers get him killed.
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On May 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:
Nice defeatist attitude. Great for town, yeah?
Certainly not defeatist, why do you think I'm defying retards like you and Palmar here? Way to go trying to make me look like VE & prplhz.
On May 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:
So why are you deciding to be the only person to vote for VE?
Again, you don't give a reason for defending VE. You just claim he shouldn't die yet. That's not good enough, and quite frankly it's scummy as fuck because it ruins a lot of the work many of us have done.
As town I don't believe you would be this uncooperative.
False. I say there are people that are scummier than him, and I'd rather try to lynch scum than a scummy/bad townie.
I have given several persons my opinions more in-detail, but as you said yourself, you are totally ignoring me. Why should I try to convince you either in thread or by PM? I see no reason to, you're just being bad.
On May 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:
So, Cephiro here says he'll give his reads when he has enough content to back them up.
Has he backed up his reads of sandro and prplhz? Nope.
He then says making one proper case is more useful than making 3 jabs at different people without anything to back it up...
You & (especially gonzaw), constantly spammed me about it and wanted to know them even if I did not have evidence to back it up. And now that I do say them anyways, you proceed to call me out for it. BRILLIANT. MVP RIGHT HERE PEOPLE. You should all trust wbg and you've already got this game in the bag.
I won't mind if you'll start tunnelling on me like Gonzaw, that just proves how desperate you are to get rid of me. Scared? You should be.
Also, I said one proper case is more useful than making jabs at different people, BEFORE I told you who I feel are scummier than VE. Not after. Big difference there.
On May 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:well, Cephiro still has no case of his own, (with about 2:10 left in the day or so) and, the best part? He's been jabbing at people just as much as anyone he's arguing with. Evidence here: Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 10:51 Cephiro wrote:
I sincerely hope you two are not townies. -_- (at gonzaw + wiggles)
Explain me how that is a jab at them? You're just either too stupid and caught up in your confirmation bias, or intentionally trying to make you look bad. How about you ask Palmar to join in as will, you'll need more than 2 people with retarded reasons to get me killed, even with King Palmar's "influence".
So you say I have no proper case of my own, very well. Would you like to take a look at everyone else that doesn't? I have a feeling almost no-one here has made proper cases so far.
Guess what, WBG HAS NOT MADE A SINGLE PROPER CASE ON SOMEONE HIMSELF, ONLY JABBERING AT VE & ME.
I'll end this with a very quote of his own:
Yet, the closest thing Cephiro has done to scumhunting is just calling people scum. Not to mention, he hasn't had a singular focus. The double standard is quite telling.
And what have you? I'd love to see your singular focus and your scumhunting. 
Your ignorance tells a lot.
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On May 02 2012 10:50 gonzaw wrote:
@Cephiro: Okay, so you are tunneling wbg now and being greatly aggressive against him too just for calling you out (effectively another OMGUS)
Noted.
![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/biggums.png)
What is this, I didn't even realize I was already tunneling! Damn you genius. I am so aggressive this game.
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On May 02 2012 11:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
still need vote claims from Radfield, prplhz, meapak, foolishness, katina.
I've talked with the last 3 recently in PMs so I assume those will come forth shortly. We don't have much time left in the day as it is.
I like how you put my claimed votes as a red 5, when I haven't claimed to vote anything as of yet. I also see syllo with 5 claimed votes but none of his targets.... interesting. I also find it hilarious how you are not even trying to ask me for a vote claim.
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On May 02 2012 11:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
see the thing is that if Cephiro is scum, let's say, and we put votes on VE to bring him to par with sandro, Cephiro can save both players by going 3/2 on sandro/ve or something like that.
The names are arbitrary but Radfield hasn't claimed his votes yet either from what I can tell.
I am certainly not going to vote for sandro. So.. who are you voting for? Or don't feel like sharing?
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On May 02 2012 11:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
tell me who you're voting.
I'm talking it out with foolishness right now, my votes are going down in the next 1-2 minutes.
I guess we have a situation where we both want to know each others votes first, don't we?
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On May 02 2012 11:59 gonzaw wrote:
I think we should also come up with a "safe" formula.
Like, if there are N people in the majority, it takes X votes for a player to be completely safe from the lynch (again just like in the manga they needed 51 to be safe).
That way we don't go overboard with votes (for instance why does Meapak have 9 votes on him in the spreadsheet?)
(Total Amount Of Votes / Amount of people in Majority) + 1 = 100% Safe limit.
Which at the moment is (90/10)+1 = 10 votes.
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On May 02 2012 03:01 Palmar wrote:
I'm fine with killing you today, and I have the influence to get it done.
On a more serious note, I can't believe no-one else voted for VE at all. I guess I should have given him all my 5 votes instead, but I didn't expect me to be the only one voting for him...
Although I do agree that he basically dug his own grave by voting for sandroba x5.
Real life and sleep calls, see you all later.
Gonzaw's basic posts following the deadline ftw. <3
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On May 02 2012 19:30 Palmar wrote:
Also cephiro, you still haven't explained in detail what you meant by my allies leaking information, were you seriously just trolling to fuck with me?
Do you seriously think I'd troll around just fuck with you? Pssh. I expected more of you. I gave you a heads-up warning, that should be more than enough for you to realize and start being more careful.
On May 03 2012 03:36 Foolishness wrote:
Is there anyone that actually does not want BC to die?
Me.
On May 03 2012 04:17 Ace wrote:
*yawn*
People are still alive in this game? What's taking so long to kill everyone?
You know, it's hard to shoot someone during the daytime if it's not allowed. ;/
On May 03 2012 07:28 gonzaw wrote:
I'd like Foolishness to post more reads, or at least post more cases/etc to back them up.
However, I'd like the same from you too BC.
To be honest, analyzing the minority list is not just like taking a random list of 8 players, because it's very probable each scum team split the vote 2-1, meaning there is at least 1 or 2 scum in said list (something you can't say of a random list of 8 players).
Of course some scum team may have voted 3-0, but I think it's unlikely both did and ended up in the majority.
"I'd like to talk with every person in the game." + Wishywashywishywashy, wax on, wax off, wax on, wax off. Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe yes, maybe no. I mean, it could be or it could not be, who knows?
More seriously, once we move on to D2, we should stop the bitchslapping each other with our gigantic penises, and nominating kings. K?
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On May 03 2012 09:40 EchelonTee wrote:I'm back. Like no one PM'd me 
Sorri, maybe later?
On May 03 2012 04:17 Ace wrote:
*yawn*
People are still alive in this game? What's taking so long to kill everyone?
On May 03 2012 09:40 EchelonTee wrote:
All that this guy has done is troll all game, sneak into the minority list, and troll some more. Does anyone actually think Ace is helping town?
Yeah, he voted for me. (Which does not make him town though, but it makes him a town-helper.)
On May 03 2012 04:24 syllogism wrote:
Sheth finally provided an acceptable answer to my inquiries so he looks slightly better for now
On May 03 2012 09:40 EchelonTee wrote:
Are you saying he answered the gonzaw "meta" accusation, the Cephiro votes, and the VE reasoning, all satisfactorily?
Why should he need to explain votes on me anymore than anyone random on anyone else? It's not like I'm scummy or anything.
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On May 03 2012 09:53 EchelonTee wrote:
Honestly, everyone should've explained their votes at least tertiarily. Imagine a standard Mafia game; does everyone just vote people saying "I think that guy is scum. kthxbai"? NO they explain why they are voting as such, or are scrutinized for not explaining. Though listing out town reads rampantly is obviously not a good idea, not posting reasoning for voting this or that person removes accountability from the voting process.
For Sheth, it was those 3 things together that made me suspicious of him, and if Syllogism considers those three topics to be answered, then maybe I should devote my attention elsewhere. That's why I am asking for that explanation in particular.
Well, there are several others that have not necessarily explained their votes to any extent. If you are suspicious that Sheth is scum, especially due to a combination of several things, you should not take anyone elses word for him being cleared, but try to figure it out and ask by yourself. Or is there a specific reason that if syllogism is fine with it, that you should be too?
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On May 03 2012 10:04 Ace wrote:lol @ sneak onto the minority list. Tell me how I did it! I cleverly wifomed 10 people into picking "Yes" and then picked "No"! Oh heavens what a genius move! bravo Ace! bravo! ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif)
You see, everyone that was on the minority list not approved by the King clearly did it in a sneaky way, and thus must be put under suspicion. I applaud you for taking that brave step, warrior.
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On May 03 2012 10:32 prplhz wrote:make of it what you will
How do you fail to see that Ace is obvtown, and he simply praised Palmar for finally realizing the optimal play? No sarcasm needed.
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On May 03 2012 10:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
Ace, mind explaining why you called wiggles scum but not Cephiro?
Because any townie with half a brain or a scum with a full brain understands that I am town.
On May 03 2012 10:59 gonzaw wrote:
I don't get wtf is going on here.
Could it be there are 2 Town Idiots in this setup?
No, there are actually 3. Trust me on this one.
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Nooo... T_T Why do all my dear friends die.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/roll.gif)
