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A Discourse on the Definition of Normal Games - Page 8

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Prev 1 6 7 8 All
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 22 2012 09:03 GMT
#141
I dont think you can balance a game around them without creating some role modifiers to make the game even more annoying. They are among the worst roles I've ever seen including Mad Hatters that set bombs off by suicide or lynch.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 22 2012 11:01 GMT
#142
To clarify, my definition of a role that changes the flow of the game is anything that messes with the cycles, victory conditions, game rules etc.

Cultist that changes people's alignment is one example.
A lyncher that can immediately end the day is another.

However, there are certain roles that are borderline non-normal in closed setups, while they're ok in open or semi-open. Bus Drivers, Janitors, Virgins and Death Millers come to mind as roles that are very difficult to deal with in closed, but if accounted for they're not a problem.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 22 2012 11:04 GMT
#143
On May 22 2012 17:15 Ace wrote:
Palmar your game isn't balanced - Macho RoleCop + Busy Paramedic in that setup means the top 2 Town PRs can never interact in a low PR game Just make the Rolecop normal since the BP can't consecutively prot him anyway


It's hardly unbalanced, but yeah, I changed the roleblocker to macho for an emphasis on it being an unusual role, it's not something like a finalized setup, just an example.
Computer says mafia
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 22 2012 12:30 GMT
#144
On May 22 2012 20:01 Palmar wrote:
To clarify, my definition of a role that changes the flow of the game is anything that messes with the cycles, victory conditions, game rules etc.

Cultist that changes people's alignment is one example.
A lyncher that can immediately end the day is another.

However, there are certain roles that are borderline non-normal in closed setups, while they're ok in open or semi-open. Bus Drivers, Janitors, Virgins and Death Millers come to mind as roles that are very difficult to deal with in closed, but if accounted for they're not a problem.
Weird roles that are accounted for with other weird roles doesn´t make it a less weird game. It can still be balanced though.
:3
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
August 01 2013 06:07 GMT
#145
*bump

this thread was awesome
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
August 01 2013 06:12 GMT
#146
I want to know what a dreamflower is...
Grubby's #1 Fan
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
August 01 2013 19:15 GMT
#147
It seems to me that the rules set out last year are no longer followed---For example he says no paranoid variants for any role and yet we had LXI.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
August 01 2013 19:20 GMT
#148
On August 02 2013 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
It seems to me that the rules set out last year are no longer followed---For example he says no paranoid variants for any role and yet we had LXI.

Someone's mad
Grubby's #1 Fan
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 19:51:43
August 01 2013 19:49 GMT
#149
On August 02 2013 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
It seems to me that the rules set out last year are no longer followed---For example he says no paranoid variants for any role and yet we had LXI.

There are no set rules for normal games. No one was able to agree on criteria and the general consensus was to just leave it as is (host discretion). The ruleset that Foolishness brought up for discussion was never followed at any point.
On August 01 2013 15:12 cDgCorazon wrote:
I want to know what a dreamflower is...

It's a compulsive vigilante (must shoot every night) that dies if they hit town.
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1510 Posts
August 01 2013 19:51 GMT
#150
What's a mad hatter? I've never heard of that role before.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
August 01 2013 20:00 GMT
#151
You can either place a bomb on someone at night (usually up to 2) or move a bomb to a different target. When you die, the bombs blow up. Depending on the game/host, they may only blow up if you get nightkilled (and not if you get lynched), and the bombs may be lost/refunded if the target is lynched or killed.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
August 01 2013 20:12 GMT
#152
On August 02 2013 04:51 jrkirby wrote:
What's a mad hatter? I've never heard of that role before.

There was one in LX if you're interested in reading.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Eden1892
Profile Joined March 2014
United States5866 Posts
July 18 2014 08:51 GMT
#153
Really sorry to bump an old thread, but this seems to be the most recent/clear resource for TL Mafia's definition of "normal" games/roles/etc. Is the list in the OP still the standard for normalcy in mafia games? Asking b/c most(/all?) of the games active right now are closed and at least one is normal, so I'm trying to get an idea for what roughly to expect if I sign up for it.
“I like to see myself as the swim instructor that trows kids in the pool shouting at them they should try to not drink too much water.” - Koshi
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 18 2014 08:54 GMT
#154
On July 18 2014 17:51 Eden1892 wrote:
Really sorry to bump an old thread, but this seems to be the most recent/clear resource for TL Mafia's definition of "normal" games/roles/etc. Is the list in the OP still the standard for normalcy in mafia games? Asking b/c most(/all?) of the games active right now are closed and at least one is normal, so I'm trying to get an idea for what roughly to expect if I sign up for it.


There never became a standard, it is mostly for the host's discretion. If you're talking about storm mafia, that game (and the Storm series of games) is explicitly borderline normal/themed, as per my definitions of my own games in this thread. Most normal games are more normal than Storm Mafia, and most are not closed either.
Computer says mafia
Eden1892
Profile Joined March 2014
United States5866 Posts
July 18 2014 09:04 GMT
#155
Ah. I was looking at the Titanic one in particular to sign up for, and I think I peeked briefly at Storm, but then realized I didn't know what "normal" meant exactly lol. So what does normal mean then if it's up to host discretion? I can make some guesses at a reasonable baseline, but if there's a resource somewhere that's already spelled out that'd be great to see.
“I like to see myself as the swim instructor that trows kids in the pool shouting at them they should try to not drink too much water.” - Koshi
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 18 2014 09:12 GMT
#156
Normal just means the game is relatively normal, as per the judgement of experienced hosts.

In practice, I guess the definition of a normal game would be something you can play without really thinking about it given that you know the rules of mafia. Things like multiple threads, abnormal cycles or lynching mechanics etc are all definitely not normal. The borderline is games that are 100% normal in structure, but may include roles you haven't encountered before.

So yeah, we never enforced hosts to follow guidelines on what is normal, and instead we rely on the hosts and the balance committee to make sure things are ok.

IF a game is called normal, you should not have to worry about mechanics.
Computer says mafia
Wile E. Coyote
Profile Joined January 2014
Mexico790 Posts
July 18 2014 19:13 GMT
#157
In fact inexperienced hosts will often ask more experienced ones for setups, and contribute nothing but running the game.

+ Show Spoiler +
ergo, me (Alakaslam) always bugging Blazinghand and Foolishness, with an occasional poke at GreYMisT.

+ Show Spoiler +
That being said I have a themed game in the works; see you in October...
I am a smurf for TL Mafia! ¡Comé el roadrunner!
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