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On April 25 2012 08:58 johnnywup wrote:
Hasn't it only been 24 hrs?
also I just got that movie from the library, funnily enough. Haven't seen it before and I've heard it's really good
Yes, it's only been 24 hours. igrok is having a funny moment.
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On April 25 2012 09:09 Risen wrote:
I just posted a giant case and spoilered it, but it seems no one is going to read it b/c it's spoilered. Do I need to repost it in all its massive glory so that someone will respond? Wtf :/
Risen - I have read it. And honestly? It's been the most convincing this so far on Ottixlol (maybe just for the passion  )
I've had this constant nagging feeling that Ottoxlol is bad town but you make a good case.
Personally I need to revisit all the Zephirdd/Sentinel/Ottoxlol cases.
I still think Zephirdd is scum (and so did gonzaw) but at the moment it's not gaining much traction. Hopefully a refresh will make me more certain.
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EBWOP: I don't necessarily mean at the end there more certain that Zephirdd is scum, rather more certain who I think we should be lynching today (this may or may not be zephirdd)
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On April 25 2012 09:18 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:11 PaqMan wrote:On April 25 2012 09:08 Risen wrote:
Both of you need to seriously sit there and think about what I just said. I was not certain VE was town, I WAS HOWEVER 100% CERTAIN LYNCHING VE WAS STUPID. I didn't imply shit about being certain he was town. We lynch to kill scum, right? We do not lynch to kill town, right? And you really really really did not want VE lynched, right? Sooo, yeah... If you read through your filter you can see how hard you were defending VE. You were defending him with so much vigor that you even declared anyone voting for him should be lynched/vigi'd. Wanna know why I was defending with so much vigor? Because I've been in that same spot. I thought after GoT that no one would be bad enough to vote for a claimed blue like that after I was lynched following my blue claim w/ a red detection. On top of this he was our DOCTOR role. How is this hard to understand?! It's SO SIMPLE :/ I'm doing my best to stay calm and not curse and not get modkilled like BJ, but I'm having a really hard time.
You do remember Mafia LI where you called me scum because I didn't vote for the blue-claiming VE, don't you?
Like, VE was scum there and you were right. But we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch.
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On April 25 2012 09:23 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote:On April 25 2012 09:18 Risen wrote:On April 25 2012 09:11 PaqMan wrote:On April 25 2012 09:08 Risen wrote:
Both of you need to seriously sit there and think about what I just said. I was not certain VE was town, I WAS HOWEVER 100% CERTAIN LYNCHING VE WAS STUPID. I didn't imply shit about being certain he was town. We lynch to kill scum, right? We do not lynch to kill town, right? And you really really really did not want VE lynched, right? Sooo, yeah... If you read through your filter you can see how hard you were defending VE. You were defending him with so much vigor that you even declared anyone voting for him should be lynched/vigi'd. Wanna know why I was defending with so much vigor? Because I've been in that same spot. I thought after GoT that no one would be bad enough to vote for a claimed blue like that after I was lynched following my blue claim w/ a red detection. On top of this he was our DOCTOR role. How is this hard to understand?! It's SO SIMPLE :/ I'm doing my best to stay calm and not curse and not get modkilled like BJ, but I'm having a really hard time. You do remember Mafia LI where you called me scum because I didn't vote for the blue-claiming VE, don't you? Like, VE was scum there and you were right. But we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch. That was day 2, completely different situation. He claimed DT without knowing his sanity.
? Risen's claim in GoT wasn't Day 1 either. I'm not claiming the cases were the same, I was just saying (to repeat) that we can't pretend all blue claims = valid = can't lynch.
I'm not backhandedly having a stab at Risen either, I was just making a sidepoint. Now I'm going to stop talking about it because it's clogging unnecessarily.
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On April 25 2012 09:34 Mementoss wrote:FROM SNMM X: Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:30 St.Daniel wrote:
Sorry, I'm being replaced out and I didn't wanted to get modkilled. Could this be the case in this game as well, or since St.Daniel is active RIGHT NOW, will he make an effort to post/read/anything. Also where is BKexe I thought he was a promising newbie. Guess not.
Good catch Mementoss. You know what gets me about BroodkingEXE? Look at his filter in his Newbie game. He posted A LOT in this game although he was lynched Day 1. There may or may not be external reasons for this but I don't like the comparison.
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Okay, I went back to have a look at Sentinel. And also gonzaw's case on Sentinel. Obviously I skim-read gonzaw's case a little bit too much before (man they're big), but the thing I'd like to concentrate on is how non-topic relevant Sentinel's posts were. That's what had set my alarm bells ringing too.
For the lazy, the summary of gonzaw's Sentinel case:
- Sentinel is just posting to avoid the spotlight. When he posts he either just defends himself against accusations, he posts fluff and filler about useless things (like that "QT=/=PM" post), or posts wishy-washy stances on other players
- He ignores all current discussions and posts things that are irrelevant to them. He talks about players that have nothing to do with the discussion (and like said before in a wishy-washy manner), he talks about current events way too late and doesn't provide any new (or even remotely useful) content regarding it
- Starts fighting with ghost to disrupt the thread, starts FoSing him but after they keep fighting he fails to take a stance on the ghost subject, he just argues with him for the sake of arguing.
- He is "suspicious" and wishy washy about a lot of players and never makes the effort of mentioning them again or contributing more thoughts about them.
- He votes VE without any reasoning and only based on VE "trying to sway townies", and nothing else
- Doesn't actively contribute, lurks and posts only sporadically.
It does seem that since then he's posted with a lot more relevancy. What do people think about this?
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I'd like a couple of other people to answer on Sentinel too (jdub, BM as you're here for a change)
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jdub, why you ignore me?
Fairly unsatisfactory answers on Sentinel at the moment There's the impression he's still scummy and recent posting hasn't necessarily fixed this, but there seems to be not a lot fo strong feeling.
Over the next few hours I will check out Ottoxlol to see if I'd genuinely be happy with that lynch.
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First of all - sorry if you were ill, that sucks. Nonetheless I will point this out
On April 25 2012 11:29 St.Daniel wrote:
Sorry guys. To make a long story short, I was retarded and I had food poisoning. I sincerely apology. I'll try my best to dedicate to this games.
This post in no way explains the post below. You were well enough to post at 3 distinct times in a different game yesterday yet not at all in this one. Excuse or not, that is still dodgy.
On April 24 2012 22:40 marvellosity wrote:Also, I don't want this to get lost on St. Daniel. Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 16:44 St.Daniel wrote:
I do have a case for Marv and I'm not sure how I feel about Ghost, but it's 3:40 and I'm dead tired. I'll post tomorrow on those two so please understand. Bold is my emphasis. The three timestamps above are his posting in SNMN X. But absolutely nothing here since the first post I quoted. Promise to post, then doesn't post, despite clearly being online at various other times the next day.
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On April 25 2012 21:24 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:53 Risen wrote:Done reading now. I looked at everyone and I think Ottoxlol has somehow managed to slip his way out of votes with the exception of mt. He'll be receiving my vote for now and this is why. + Show Spoiler +On April 21 2012 14:41 Ottoxlol wrote:
I haven't played mafia on tl
To the question you addressed to Paqman, I have some suspicions because some people doesnt like logic, but i think its too early to decide its their limitations or theyre scums. First thing that caught my eye. Tbh it's no biggie. It's a small thing, but I absolutely hate people who go "I'm noob". He's implying that he's played before, just somewhere else, so why does he need to say anything at all? On April 22 2012 06:52 Ottoxlol wrote:
About marvel, i think he's not a scum just had no time to post, I would like to see him defend himself. He had 2 bad questions then he afked, I don't believe that's enough for my vote. He will post later, so I think it's useless to discuss. That's not enough for your vote but you put your vote on gonzaw b/c he FoSd you? On April 22 2012 07:38 Ottoxlol wrote: [UoN] Sentinel had two real posts, the first + Show Spoiler +Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point?
At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues.
He doesnt know that GFs cant shoot.. Nuf said, very bad post, calling out gonzaw but not making a case against his plan + Show Spoiler +I'm starting to think all of you people purposely post when I sleep
Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks).
Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table.
I would wait till he put more on the table before we jump to conclusions, I disagree with that plans always benefiting mafia. He's talkin more in general terms, so maybe if he states his case more clearly we'll get more information. Sentinel, if you would be so kind to tell us your opinion about who's benefiting the town right now and who's not, i would like to read what do you think who should we lynch. The first half of his response can be taken two ways. One, he isn't catching onto the fact that sentinel means the godfathers having goons shoot them. The other, is that he knows this and is simply trying to make a post where he looks useful. The second half is fine, but he's asking for Sentinels thoughts without really doing much himself. On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote:
He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes.
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
This is where some serious bells and whistles should be going off for anyone who spots it. Can't find it? " So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum" What horrible justification for a vote. I'm aware he made a few posts asking VE questions, and finding him a little suspicious, but it feels like he's trying to shift the blame away from himself before VE even flips. Oh well, you guys say he's good and no one good would play like this so imma vote him. On April 22 2012 22:43 Ottoxlol wrote:Forget the plan, we already discussed it too much. I don't just disagree with your claim, I wrote it down why is it a bad play. You still did not respond Show nested quote +He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes. Why does he edit his quote in his further responses to remove the part where he justifies his vote saying VE wouldn't play like this? Why not just quote it? It's small, but small things add up. I absolutely HATE people who edit the things they're quoting. On April 24 2012 15:52 Ottoxlol wrote:
I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea
I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out.
Sentinel attacked BM
Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp
marv attacked Zeph
BM defending Zeph and marv
laya attacking marv, defending zeph
Zeph attacking BM, and marv
I think this will not make a strong read, but I try
If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa
If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa
If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa
.
So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later
What is this? It's the worst defined list I've ever seen. My mind is trying to wrap itself around the logic here but can't because it's intentionally confusing FOR NO REASON. On April 24 2012 16:57 Ottoxlol wrote:
I don't get the sloosh kill btw, he contributed scarce, voted on VE. If not lynched he would have been pressured a lot today. Risen was the only one they both suspected to be scum, since sloosh kill has no other explanation then defending Risen I think he is town. Why are you buddying me here? By the logic in this post it sounds like you're accusing me of offing the people who were suspicious of me. Instead, you end with the conclusion that Risen is town. What? Also, the sloosh kill DOES have another explanation and it was already posted in the thread by someone else, blue-hunting. On April 24 2012 19:13 Ottoxlol wrote:My defense against BJ Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 18:40 BlazingJitsu wrote:Examining the VE wagon, the vote for him that stands out the most is Ottoxlol's vote. Let's take a look: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote:
He has 5 votes right now against marv's 6.
Is he a good player?
He argued we shouldn't give any info to the scum then claim he's a JK.
If he did not claim and we lynch marv or anyone, then scum wouldnt kill him because he had votes.
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
This is a bullshit reason for voting VisceraEyes. If we take a look at it at it's core, he's basically saying "VE played in a sub-optimal way" as the basis for his case, but take a look at how he finishes his little case summary: Yes. VE is good -> if VE is town he shouldn't have claimed. Why is this bullshit reasoning?
On April 22 2012 16:36 Ottoxlol wrote:
This contradiction is enough for me to vote VE, everyone saying he is a good player, if he is indeed town JK he shouldn't have played this way. So I trust you guys on that he is good also that means he is a scum.
He closes off his case by trying to abdicate responsibility for it. He knows VE is going to flip town, and he wants to blame other people when it happens without sounding inconsistent. I see, scum Ottox would post this I aggree.
Now, on its own, maybe this wouldn't be so bad. I mean, it's scummy as fuck, but maybe we have bigger targets, like Marv? Well, let's take a look on what Ottoxlol has been doing to "scumhunt" since D1: + Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 15:52 Ottoxlol wrote:
I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea
I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out.
Sentinel attacked BM
Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp
marv attacked Zeph
BM defending Zeph and marv
laya attacking marv, defending zeph
Zeph attacking BM, and marv
I think this will not make a strong read, but I try
If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa
If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa
If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa
.
So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later
This is Ottoxlol trying to push people who were on the VE wagon with some unhelpful WIFOM. Paying close attention to this post, you'll realize he doesn't actually push anyone as scum. This is unhelpful shitty dick play. This is scum play that he set up D1. This is Ottoxlol trying to pool the proverbial wool over the town's eyes by trying to appear helpful. I wrote that I don't have a good read that's why i did not push. I started to look into the names that came up and I felt none of them was convincing so I made a post that maybe can help others. How is that anti-town?
Ottoxlol, you didn't want to take responsibility for your vote on VE, and you don't want to take responsibility for pushing others on his wagon. Your posts are waffling, unhelpful, and scummy. You can read my posts, I still stand beside my reasoning. Especially after he started yelling and spewing up random names. I pushed him because I sincerely thought he was scum. No one came up with anything that swayed me.
##vote: OttoxlolCome at me bro
-Blazinghand That's not a defense. That a useless post in which you bolded one part of his entire case. On April 24 2012 19:45 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 00:19 BlazingJitsu wrote:
Well guys all I have to say is you should have listened to me and we should have lynched Marv. You have my deepest assurance that over the course of the next 72 hours I will stop at nothing to get Marv lynched. It should have been obvious that VE was playing crappy town play. It was obvious to me. It was obvious to Risen. In fact, it's interesting how obvious it was to people who put any decent thought into it or were intelligent, thoughtful people, that this was the case.
All of you who had your votes on people that weren't Marv, you also allowed this to happen. You allowed a delicious mixture of jubjubs and scum to lead us down a path of idiocy. I typically try not to beat people up over this sort of thing, but it's so blatantly obvious that Marv is scum.
You did not make a good enough case against Marv and you did not defend VE. So you were not that confident. Continuing his 1v1 fest after harping on the gonzaw/VE 1v1. Standard, but what sticks out here is that he's telling BJ he didn't make a strong enough case against marv and didn't defend VE. Yeah, his case on marv was too weak, but saying he didn't defend VE is a lie. On April 24 2012 20:37 Ottoxlol wrote:
LOL I don't understand your case.
You say the reason I'm scum because the way i voted VE. First I made a case about why VE is playing badly about the massvigclaim plan, then when he claimed, I stated my reasoning why he shouldn't have, and because you guys said he's the best player ever it's obvious that he is scum. I stated why a scum VE would claim and asked him why did he think the claim was good play. He did not respond, started accusing every second player and yelling, then rqd.
I blame my vote on VE's bad play and lack of interest.
You still did not respond why is this strong enough to switch from tunneling marv.
Stating my posts are worthless, when you did not help town at all (not defending VE when you claim it was obv he's town, not stating a single good case that would rally ppl from VE), is the nail in your coffin.
#vote BlazingJitsu Votes BJ after their OMGUS mud-flinging. The end result of this argument is BJ's modkill b/c he couldn't keep his cool when trying to argue with someone who was clearly being willfully absurd. On April 24 2012 21:48 Ottoxlol wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 21:29 Mementoss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 10:38 Ottoxlol wrote:
It seems like the ppl doesnt read the whole thread.
My case against VE was simple.
He told us never give up any information to the scum, then proceed to a bad claim that ensures his early death as a blue. This is bad play, hes the best player ever so he would not do that if he is indeed town JK. I tried to ask him about this decision tell me what did I miss or what was his idea what would happen, no answer. He ignored my 6 posts directed towards him, then after the votes started to pile up on him he tried defending himself, I told him what am i interested in, he talked about the massvigclaim after we already closed it and had nothing to do with his lynch. He did not read my posts, failed to comprehend them and when I asked him to explain his play he start writing in all caps, and ragequitting. Like a scum VE.
The timing was strange too, the claim was around the time BM ninja voted.
, I voted him because he did not answer to my accusations or questions just gave up like a little girl. He says statements that have the potential to explain why it could have been scummy actions but he never explains why its scummy. Such as: "The timing was strange", wait what, how? Also, you did not vote on him based on bad play? Then why the fuck did you talk about it so much in all your posts directed to him? It musta had somewhat of a good influence on your voting towards him.
My other posts explained why the timing was strange. If scum VE wants to claim he claims when he's pressured and an easy wagon appears. I said the bad play can mean 2 things, either he's town or a scum (wow that was surprising). If he would have answered why he thought it was good as townie or at least not give up I would have considered that he's not trying to escape the lynch with a fakeclaim, but he tried something that was not optimal. If you look at my filter you can see, I asked about him because before his claim I had only a little suspicion on him
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 23:27 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 23:05 Mattchew wrote:
If you want to vote for VE because he is not playing Jailkeeper the way you would, you are a jubjub. If you can think of a good reason that a scum VE would logically claim there, or at all on day 1, please present that. Scum VE failed at logic at the plan discussion phase, then proceeded to avoid answering to my questions 5 times in a row. Since he still did not explained why it is good for us that he claimed, I don't see how can this be anything but anti-town. Scum would claim this if they want to avoid a d1 lynch and a nice wagon appears that not too suspicious to jump on. Like the BM train. I wonder how many scums are on that. If i were a vig i would definitely shoot there. Well you dodged matthews question. So that makes you scum by your own logic? You say its anti-town, or bad town, you don't say its scummy, or why its scummy. Just its bad for town. You note that scum would do this to avoid a day 1 lynch, but wait, VE didn't do that, he had barely any pressure on him when he claimed, he had 3 votes to Marvs 6. So this is just wrong. Also you say that scum would want to jump on the BM wagon, well at the time BM wagon as you call it was barely even moving. I think it had 2-3 votes. What? I did not say why is it scummy? Reread. I was arguing if he's playing a bad townie play or a scummy scum play, this choice of words further proves my previous reply that I wanted him to respond, to explain his play.VE had 5 votes against marv's 6. This is also in one of my posts, this was why I argued he shouldnt have claimed because scum was very unlikely to night kill the second highest vote. He claimed right after BM voted for him -> ninja vote ez wagon.
Basically your avoiding giving a detailed opinion on who is scum and why they are scum at all costs. You give handy suggestions like vigs shoot into BM voters. Or your little WIFOM earlier, but that is it. I don't, I had a case d1 about VE, I pushed it. It was a big fail. If I have a strong read I will post it.
You really didn't have that much of a case on d1. What you did have was everyone else making points and you jumping onto those points pushing it as your case. You proceeded to hide behind your defense that VE was playing bad and therefor scum. On April 24 2012 22:21 Ottoxlol wrote:
I believe that there is at least one scum on that list, I read them all. I couldn't come up with a case that's strong.
Bm contributed zero, it is really hard to analyse someone with zero posts.
Marvellosity been attacked d1 with a very weak case, I did not find anything suspicious there
layabout he was on my d1 list because I felt his opinion switches were a bit suspicious but d2 he's been posting some very good things, i think he's town
Sentinel wasn't too involved in the debates, the case against him is semi decent, but if we punish someone because he did not got involved it should be the one with the least contribution
Zephridd's defense is that he was afk too.
We have 3 players who did some afking Sent BM Zeph from the VE crowd, Sentinel and Zeph tried contributing so I would vote rather BM then those other 2. He's getting votes and called out why don't he post and he's still just lurking around. BM please get into the game and show us you are town, or else I feel you'll get lynched. WHAT?! You look at that entire list of people on VE and you can't come up with ANYONE? Earlier you had your Glenn Beck twisted logic post saying 0 or 2 people on your list were probably scum... or something. Now you're saying you can't find anyone, anyone out of the list of people who voted for VE scummy? BM was lurking all day 1, and you can't find that scummy? You find nothing suspicious about marv's play? I don't think marv is scum, and I can point out some suspicios things no problem. There is no one who is above suspicion until they flip green. Layabout goes from being a little scummy to you to not being scummy at all simply because he's "posting better"? Sentinel is scummy as sin! You even pointed out DAY ONE that you thought Sentinel could possibly be acting scummy. It hasn't gotten better for him in my eyes. How can you not make a case? Are you protecting a scumbuddy here? You pointed out that 0 or 2 people on VE might be scum. I'm leaning towards you knowing the number of scum on him. You can't make a case on Zeph? CMON. The guy's defense is that he was lurking! Ahem... I mean afk. You're saying Sentinel and Zeph are in the clear for you, but BM has to go? I will be the first one to hate on BM, but to say BM is your scum read but not zeph/sent is outrageous. BM start posting or you have feelings that he will be lynched. Where were you yesterday when I was shouting for his lynch. Now that sent/zeph are under suspicion, though, lynch the lurker. What remains after that post is one liner after one liner and then this. On April 25 2012 08:03 Ottoxlol wrote:Risengonzaws case against him He tried to defend VE, but with not the best tools Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:18 gonzaw wrote:
He just opposes the VE lynch for the sake of opposing it, and seems to ignore everything else that had to do with VE and VE's behaviour. It makes it seem like he wouldn't even care about VE at all and only cared about opposing his lynch.
After that he starts to rally people to other candidates (marv/bm). He explained that he did FoS these people only because they had votes on them so it would have been easier to get ahead of VE. I think his reasoning is clear, I find him town. BMHe doesnt post, ninja-votes. There is no real case against him because he doesn't post. I can't wrap my head around him, some say scummy, some say don't I can't really decide. If people want to lynch him I will have no objection at all. SentinelHe did not provide any reasoning on his vote for VE or get into the debate about it. A bit scummy. I would vote for him too Marv.From the beginning I felt like BJ is tunneling him too much, he answered his accusations but BJ couldn't understand them, I can relate to that. I am neutral towards him Zephirddhe defended himself with stating he afked, he's still not active enough, hard to judge. DanielOne real post, he votes BM but then promise us a case on marv and that he'll post, we are still waiting. BroodTwo posts, he votes marv, I point out some inconsistency in his post but he did not respond. No posts, no case johnnywupShow nested quote +On April 24 2012 13:12 MidnightGladius wrote:
That said, I still think that you're scum, johnny. You have zeph as your strongest scumread, but refuse to vote for him, and ask for town consensus first, when we've just started the day, and you have the most time to convince others? You have yet to actually push your own scumreads, outside of your earlier sheeping. Your unwillingness to actually put your vote where your voice is very suspicious, and I think that you're trying to gently push for a bandwagon without actually committing. This behavior is just like zeph's list earlier, which is why I'm of the opinion that you're bussing him. I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny. ##Vote: johnnywup
More buddying of me and a post containing your "feelings" culminating in a complete swap to voting johnny b/c he's being a little indecisive. Ottoxlol is scum and I will be voting for him. ##vote: Ottoxlol I agree with this case. If BM has no chance of being lynched and there is another candidate for getting lynched I will vote Ottox to ensure that either him or BM gets lynched today
Hey Mattchew, when I posted my thoughts on layabout's defences you said he had a valid point on BM.
Not valid enough that you don't think he's 100% scum then? Or?
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Ok guys, so I went back over Ottoxlol (+ Risen's case on him). Firstly there are a couple of things that make me *uncomfortable* about his potential lynch.
1) He has actually tried to be active. Compared to, say, BM, BroodEXE, St. Daniel
2) He's being attacked over VE stuff. Now there were a lot of people who did this (including me). I get the impression reading his filter that he was reasonably consistent over VE, and that people are cherrypicking the odd line to attack him with.
3) A lingering sense I have that he's playing unsure town. His play seems very consistent with this, and consistent in general - consistently saying he has no reads, consistently going after lurkers. I know this is about to be wifom, but I still have it in my head that as scum he would have at least TRIED to comply with town's wishes for a stronger read...
That said, there are two posts in his filter which are just disgusting:
On April 24 2012 15:52 Ottoxlol wrote:
I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea
I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out.
Sentinel attacked BM
Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp
marv attacked Zeph
BM defending Zeph and marv
laya attacking marv, defending zeph
Zeph attacking BM, and marv
I think this will not make a strong read, but I try
If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa
If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa
If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa
.
So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later
This may or may not be noob connection play (see the final day of Newbie VIII for the entire playlist going absolute connection-wifom crazy). But still, it rankles... even his conclusion - there are some scum, or no scum, but I don't know who are scum. Even the players in Newbie VIII who were going connection crazy were doing so off their own original strong scumread, unlike here.
On April 24 2012 22:21 Ottoxlol wrote:
I believe that there is at least one scum on that list, I read them all. I couldn't come up with a case that's strong.
Bm contributed zero, it is really hard to analyse someone with zero posts.
Marvellosity been attacked d1 with a very weak case, I did not find anything suspicious there
layabout he was on my d1 list because I felt his opinion switches were a bit suspicious but d2 he's been posting some very good things, i think he's town
Sentinel wasn't too involved in the debates, the case against him is semi decent, but if we punish someone because he did not got involved it should be the one with the least contribution
Zephridd's defense is that he was afk too.
We have 3 players who did some afking Sent BM Zeph from the VE crowd, Sentinel and Zeph tried contributing so I would vote rather BM then those other 2. He's getting votes and called out why don't he post and he's still just lurking around. BM please get into the game and show us you are town, or else I feel you'll get lynched.
Here, wishywashy yukkiness again. Like, even giving his opinions on players he doesn't even give opinions! And his total (wilful? or not) misunderstanding of the thrust of the cases against Sentinel/Zephirdd/BM (ninja vote). The only consistent thing in the post is that he's going after lurkers primarily and he does this in other posts too.
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Alright. So, a couple of questions to you all: does anyone see my misgivings about his lynch? Or is it really just me worried about those things?
Next, the two posts I filtered there seem to be the lowpoints. Are we sure that they're not just in-line with his general wishywashyness as a newb? Or are they just that bad?
I can't fucking make up my mind on this one atm, those posts look so awful but somehow I can't convince myself completely. To the floor ^^
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EBWOP: my 2) at the beginning. I said "there's a lot of people who did this" - I meant, there were a lot of people who voted VE.
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On April 25 2012 22:35 Mattchew wrote:
ps daniel is actually scummy lurker inactive sick newb, who is being replaced out of his other game and probably got stuck playing this one. So this one has easily the most question marks
I still don't like that St. Daniel posted 3 times in the other game and not at all in this game. Sick or not, that's what happened. I'm asking about Ottoxlol because I'm hoping town's opinions will help remove some of my uncertainty.
Zephirdd is the final one I need to look over and will do so by this evening. Certain things make me very suspicious of him e.g. his 'accidental' posting of him being very happy thinking that if VE flipped JK then I was incredibly likely scum.
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On April 26 2012 01:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
EBWOP: The pages suddenly worked! My filter is apparently blocking me trying to get to my posts from TL Home, but from here it works perfectly fine.
So right now I'm switching my vote to Ottoxlol. Currently my plan of voting is Otto -> BM -> St. Dan (for lurking, the fact that he's otherwise active means I have no problems attacking him for lurking)
I'm really hoping Otto is scum, because if he isn't, it's prolly a death sentence for me.
I find this an odd comment to make.
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On April 26 2012 01:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote:On April 26 2012 01:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
EBWOP: The pages suddenly worked! My filter is apparently blocking me trying to get to my posts from TL Home, but from here it works perfectly fine.
So right now I'm switching my vote to Ottoxlol. Currently my plan of voting is Otto -> BM -> St. Dan (for lurking, the fact that he's otherwise active means I have no problems attacking him for lurking)
I'm really hoping Otto is scum, because if he isn't, it's prolly a death sentence for me. I find this an odd comment to make. How is it odd? If I was scum I'd already know if he was with me or not. If he flips town, I'm suspecting the wrong people (I thought VE was bullshitting and now Otto has crap posting) and I'm that much more scummy. Even if I'm not next in line for lynching, I'm going to have that much more trouble with my analysis because first I have to ask myself what I'm doing wrong.
Maybe. Being wrong != scummy, though.
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My final case to go back over on: Zephirdd. I'm going to spoiler gonzaw's main thoughts on him and then also my case too.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 09:32 gonzaw wrote:Okay I don't think I'll have time to make a case against Zephird before the post goes up, so here it goes: About Zephird:What I first found suspicious about him was how he only had 3 posts in the whole game like half-way through D1 (here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=29#561 ) Then he posts filler, one-liners that don't contribute at all, etc. Of course he made that horrible last-minute bandwagon-jump on VE, and spent almost all of his time after the lynch to defend himself. I didn't see him scumhunt at all, nor take active part of discussions. He lurks, yet when he posts he posts one-liners and fluff, which means he isn't actually inactive and doesn't have time/etc to post (in which case his posts would have more contributions) but just posts to avoid suspicion and to fly under the radar. He's a fine lynch as well, although I'd prefer to lynch Sentinel first Hopefully I'm posting this before the post goes up 
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 05:34 slOosh wrote:
Marv: thoughts on MidnightGladius and Zephirdd Now I did MG, Zephirdd too. His filter mainly gets a bit more interesting in the second half. The first section of his filter he says a lot of the things I thought about the VE lynch. Namely stuff like: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Yet you guys are doing exactly what a scum fake-claimer would want you to: just unvote him ezpz, he gave up the game and is being useless but hey he is JK amirite?
"other scummy suspects" is subjective when I consider VE the scummiest after what has happened. I can't believe people are actually defending a martyring day 1 blue claimer that gave up, when his claim makes no fucking sense or whatsoever.
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:56 Zephirdd wrote:
May I remind you that he said himself that the reason to claim wasn't the pressure, but to stop a plan that wasn't going through. Which only makes his claim worse.
Alright, good. The second half of his filter is a goldmine though. He flip-flops in so many ways against me I'm having problem formatting it. Let's give it a go. Somewhat before the deadline: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Although I'm tempted to switch my "lastmin" vote(which seems to not be last min at all) to marv after what Risen pointed out. Ofc there is also the general reasons to vote him as pointed out earlier as well.
Ok, here we have tacit support for BH's case. He then kinda retracts it shortly after Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:46 Zephirdd wrote:
Also, I'm skimming through marv's filter and I don't see anything glaring in particular, yet that marv/midnight "scumslip"(pointed out by Risen) is very interesting. It could be a coincidence, it could be what Risen said. So generally a null read now, and then ANOTHER mention of the Risen observation (MG and I asking for deadline times almost simultaneously). Fair enough, let's continue. His next post contained the following 'accident': Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:48 Zephirdd wrote:On April 23 2012 08:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is frustrating to me. So we're going to lynch BM just because he's a lurker, and we're gonna save a rage-quitting VE just because he claimed blue? Does town genuinely believes this to be the best play? Now for instance, were VE really JK, this would make marvellosity look incredibly and extremely bad. Why? because fuck yes. Wow, so his 'inner' thoughts were that VE flipping JK would somehow make me look incredibly bad. What? This is despite him and I making practically identical points on VE on all counts. Again, what? It continues with Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 09:16 Zephirdd wrote:
I'm all into a marv. lynch for the next day given how bad he wanted VE dead. I mean seriously, his latest posts were like a dog drooling at a piece of meat. I've already posted how stupid it would be for scum to have been so vocally pushing the lynch near the deadline when it seemed fairly clear the lynch was going through anyway. Fine. But how badly I wanted him dead? I was simply around and active, making all the points I thought were strong (yes, sadly incorrect), and to reiterate all the points that he had made about VE as well. It's just unbelievably hypocritical. A quick segway back to where he TWICE comments on Risen's observation about MG and I posted about the deadline at about the same time, if I may. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Although I'm tempted to switch my "lastmin" vote(which seems to not be last min at all) to marv after what Risen pointed out. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:46 Zephirdd wrote:
Also, I'm skimming through marv's filter and I don't see anything glaring in particular, yet that marv/midnight "scumslip"(pointed out by Risen) is very interesting. It could be a coincidence, it could be what Risen said. Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:02 Zephirdd wrote:
Sorry, your case is weak. Too weak. And when a case is so weak, it is usually wrong. Food for thought. Hrrr. Ok, what do we have so far on Zephirdd's kinda-finger-pointing-at-marv. He doesn't see anything particularly scummy in my filter other than some supposed scumslip, but then he kinda wants to lynch me because I wanted VE dead for all the same reasons he did, I was just more vocal about it. For emphasis. Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 08:02 Zephirdd wrote:
Sorry, your case is weak. Too weak. And when a case is so weak, it is usually wrong. Food for thought. Lastly, he promises us a case on someone. Instead we get a load more wishy-washy finger-pointing. + Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 03:34 Zephirdd wrote:
K I was planning on making a case on someone
But then I realized that there is no point in making a case right now. Instead, I'll just post whatever the fuck is flowing in my mind about the game.
MG strikes scummy to me. I don't know how he switched out of marvellosity into "I think lynching marv would be a terrible mislynch" so easily; especially when marvellosity's posting hasn't been that better. Oh, and I have to be honest here: I was willing to yell OH MY GOD YOU SUCK when he decided I should be lynched tomorrow, given everything that happened. He saw the easy lynch target in me after my "last minute" voting shit and decided it would be easy to push a wagon on me. Oh, and that way he switched out of marv makes me think he was just bussing him.
johny strikes me as a bad town for sheeping the one guy that was voting him. This or MG is town and john is a scared scum; But to be honest he hasn't made much bad on the game so I can't really call him scum; hence 'bad town'. In fact, not even bad, just one bad move tbh.
marvellosity has not made an actual case and went to VE's wagon(along with me). Although this is forgivable, I don't like activity without substance. There is not one scum push made by marvellosity besides VE. He talks about how BH is tunneling him, yet all he did was to talk about VE without caring about making connections or anything. Even now, he is caring about a worthless defense when he should be genuinely attacking someone. Yeah scum
StDaniel inactivity is sad and I don't know if I should call him scum or not; when he has posted on another game(as pointed by someone else), that makes me think he is actually scum afraid of posting - very common considering it's his first TL game.
Bill Murray sounds like a Kenpachi/Palmar mix. Fuck day 1, day 2 is where the action is at eh? At very least he hasn't been disruptive so far. Wouldn't mind a vig shot if he will keep playing like that tho.
Well, I *kinda* have other reads but they are all null or town/null so, there you have it.
Ask Me Anything. Overall? Zephirdd is looking pretty bloody scummy
Anyway, a couple more things.
Zephirdd thinking VE was scummy as fuck (all well and good)
On April 23 2012 08:52 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:50 Mattchew wrote:On April 23 2012 08:48 Zephirdd wrote:On April 23 2012 08:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is frustrating to me. So we're going to lynch BM just because he's a lurker, and we're gonna save a rage-quitting VE just because he claimed blue? Does town genuinely believes this to be the best play? Now for instance, were VE really JK, this would make marvellosity look incredibly and extremely bad. Why? because fuck yes. On April 23 2012 08:47 Mattchew wrote:On April 23 2012 08:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is frustrating to me. So we're going to lynch BM just because he's a lurker, and we're gonna save a rage-quitting VE just because he claimed blue? Does town genuinely believes this to be the best play? If you don't believe VE's claim (idk why you wouldn't given the timing) then vote for him because that means you think he is scum. I believe his claim and his ragequit. Waiwaiwiaitiaw WAIT. How the fuck is his timing for his claim okay? What was he achieving with his claim? The plan wasn't following through, and that's his reason for claiming. Enlighten me how did his claim make any sense. enlighten me how it makes ANY sense as scum. and it explains the suspicions held by others of his earlier posts The simple fact that people are defending him right now makes it justifiable as scum. The fact that he didn't give us anything to work on in the event of his lynch(ie a fucking case or a simple "I think X is scum") makes no sense from JK pov. hence it's scummy as fuck.
Again saying VE was superscummy
On April 23 2012 09:16 Zephirdd wrote:
Okay, whoever thinks what he did was reasonable should also rethink a little.
I"m not taking blame for that either; it was VE's own play that did that. His claim made no sense and he did us the favor of not posting the freaking case against him.
I'm all into a marv. lynch for the next day given how bad he wanted VE dead. I mean seriously, his latest posts were like a dog drooling at a piece of meat.
But somehow he mysteriously makes the leap that I am now scum because of how badly I wanted VE dead. What is this? Stating so absolutely strongly himself how scummy VE was - why would I look bad for pushing someone who is 'scummy as fuck' - his words? Does it not make sense to push someone you think is scummy as fuck?
Gonna bring up his 'inner thoughts' post again
On April 23 2012 08:48 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is frustrating to me. So we're going to lynch BM just because he's a lurker, and we're gonna save a rage-quitting VE just because he claimed blue? Does town genuinely believes this to be the best play? Now for instance, were VE really JK, this would make marvellosity look incredibly and extremely bad. Why? because fuck yes.
I would look really bad because I was convinced - just like you and other people? Or... that I would become a handy scapegoat for the VE lynch? Yeah.
Finally. I went to look at his voting pattern for today. It turns out he placed a vote on Sentinel, without, as far as I can see, mentioning him ONCE. The first time he mentions him is this - so apparently this is the entire reason he's voting for him?
On April 24 2012 23:10 Zephirdd wrote:By the way, lynching Risen or johnny is retarded. IF you want my opinion, I'd say Sentinel is the best lynch target right now. Last post of his: Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 10:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I'm posting exactly seven hours from now. I think I'll make it. It's been about 12 hours. He also has very little substance. Leaving my vote on him for now.
Interestingly one of his defences against my spoilered post was that he hadn't promised a CASE, but an ANALYSIS. Was Sentinel on there?
On April 24 2012 03:34 Zephirdd wrote:
K I was planning on making a case on someone
But then I realized that there is no point in making a case right now. Instead, I'll just post whatever the fuck is flowing in my mind about the game.
MG strikes scummy to me. I don't know how he switched out of marvellosity into "I think lynching marv would be a terrible mislynch" so easily; especially when marvellosity's posting hasn't been that better. Oh, and I have to be honest here: I was willing to yell OH MY GOD YOU SUCK when he decided I should be lynched tomorrow, given everything that happened. He saw the easy lynch target in me after my "last minute" voting shit and decided it would be easy to push a wagon on me. Oh, and that way he switched out of marv makes me think he was just bussing him.
johny strikes me as a bad town for sheeping the one guy that was voting him. This or MG is town and john is a scared scum; But to be honest he hasn't made much bad on the game so I can't really call him scum; hence 'bad town'. In fact, not even bad, just one bad move tbh.
marvellosity has not made an actual case and went to VE's wagon(along with me). Although this is forgivable, I don't like activity without substance. There is not one scum push made by marvellosity besides VE. He talks about how BH is tunneling him, yet all he did was to talk about VE without caring about making connections or anything. Even now, he is caring about a worthless defense when he should be genuinely attacking someone. Yeah scum
StDaniel inactivity is sad and I don't know if I should call him scum or not; when he has posted on another game(as pointed by someone else), that makes me think he is actually scum afraid of posting - very common considering it's his first TL game.
Bill Murray sounds like a Kenpachi/Palmar mix. Fuck day 1, day 2 is where the action is at eh? At very least he hasn't been disruptive so far. Wouldn't mind a vig shot if he will keep playing like that tho.
Well, I *kinda* have other reads but they are all null or town/null so, there you have it.
Ask Me Anything.
Um, nope. Whaddafuck? What the heck is this vote on Sentinel?
Tonight I am voting for Zephirdd because he is scum
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Anyway, now I've voted for Zephirdd scum, I wish to note something else.
St. Daniel has voted for him without saying anything here.
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On April 26 2012 06:51 Zephirdd wrote:
gotta love StDaniel's ninja vote.
Also gotta love how forced people are analyzing my posts. Geez I should play more like Kenpachi and Bill Murray, I bet I'd feel more comfortable with this.
Sentinel, I just pointed out town-confirmed reads, as in, reads that can be trusted to be pro-town. Opinions that we know that aren't scum opinions. Y'know, trustable opinions. No, I never said they are right.
Marv, just because I never mention Sentinel, teh lurker, doesn't mean I can't vote him to bring him out. Simply put, after he posted I switched to Ottoxlol.
I Love how Midnight, StDaniel and marvellosity switched their votes to me at the end of the day. I am aware that I need one more vote to be sniped, which will be achieved by some clueless town or simply by the fourth scum(*ahem Ottoxlol ahem*)
It's okay. I admit I've done some shit there and here, but some town players should realize that a lot of these 'cases' are just bad logic. When I flip green, you'll realize how dumb all of this was.
Scum, you are killing yourselves by trying to kill me. Just a tip.
You've been my main suspicion all day, that much has been clear.
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On April 26 2012 06:50 Mementoss wrote:Two fairly convincing cases on Zephridd, scum buddies trying to bail ottoxol out? Seems unlikely at least for marv, not sure what to think about sentinel though. The fact that Sentinel is posting a legit case when hes in no danger to get lynched today gives him a lil' bit of town cred in my book, that is unless, both him and ottoxlol are scum. However I got a question for you Marv: Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:10 Zephirdd wrote:By the way, lynching Risen or johnny is retarded. IF you want my opinion, I'd say Sentinel is the best lynch target right now. Last post of his: On April 24 2012 10:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I'm posting exactly seven hours from now. I think I'll make it. It's been about 12 hours. He also has very little substance. Leaving my vote on him for now. What would scum motivation be saying lynching Risen or Johnny is retarded unless one of them is scum as well. Or unless its just completely random. Do you have a scum read on either Risen or Johnny? Also, why would he mention Johnny of all people, someone who was pushing the lynch down his neck very early. Just search Johnny in Zeph's filter to see how much they interact negatively. Hmm.
I can't see johnny being scum at this stage. His posting has simply been too sincere. Risen is a possibility, but I kinda have a null read on him atm - I've not seriously combed his posts.
I don't think it's worth that much to think about connections like that right now, because it could mean anything.
If you or anyone has a serious objection against my case or others brought against Zephirdd, now is the time to say so, because as it stands he is my clearest scum read.
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