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The Sum of All Fears Mafia
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
/in | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 22 2012 10:43 Hesmyrr wrote: 2. Mafia have one-shot guaranteed power role kill power called NUKE which can be used at night. NUKE is independent from normal mafia NK so can be used simultaneously. Also NUKE will fail if citizen is targeted as mentioned, and subsequent day post will reveal nationality of the target and the fact that nuke had been used. I'm a little confused on the highlighted section. From what I can tell, NUKE is a 1-shot extra KP for scum. But it says it will fail if "citizen is targeted as mentioned"... targeted by what? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 24 2012 03:34 gonzaw wrote: But I wanna nuke some commies as well  The whole US/SU distinction is a modification to the mafia wincon, not the town wincon. The idea is that that mafia's goal is to eliminate either 5 specific townies, or the OTHER 5 specific townies, then survive a day, rather than the normal wincon. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 26 2012 12:43 johnnywup wrote: You need to kill the opposing town faction (US vs SU) in addition to kiling the Nazis, if you are either US or SU. That's not how I read it at all. minated.[/quote] [Player], you are SU Citizen! You have no special powers, but plays critical role of having to catch perpetrators of this crisis before it is too late. You win when all threats to town are eliminated. I don't see anything about US or town factions in there. You win when all threats to town are eliminated. No Nazis, no threats. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 26 2012 12:52 johnnywup wrote: but if both 'factions' are the same side, then why vote bias against US? Unless the factions are just for theme and roles? Read the mafia wincon. EDIT: Mafia wincon here "You win when you outnumber or is equal to the surviving town-aligned players. You ALSO win when your faction isn't eliminated a day after all of either US or SU faction is wiped out. " Emphasis mine. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 26 2012 14:02 zelblade wrote: Why not? This method has been thoroughly tested and has had a 100% success rate so far. Statistics show that this is a stellar plan, no?  I propose we dayvig zelblade before anyone can post | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 04:28 Hesmyrr wrote: Well, I'm going to send them out around ~6:30 KST. The roles are already rolled though. You might even say they've already been... "roled" | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Good morning, gentlemen. First off, regarding our discussion of policy lynches: I personally apply a soft "lynch all lurkers" and "lynch all liars" policy to all the games in which I play. My first goal is always to lynch scum. Scum likes to lurk, and scum likes to lie. I am highly suspicious of lurkers and liars, but I will not automatically lynch every lurker and every liar-- this is too easily abused by scum. That being said, I have lynched lurkers and liars in the past and am not afraid to do so in this game. Nobody can convince me to modify my personal stance and I will not do so. Secondarily, regarding setup: This is fairly simple. This is a closed setup with 10 town and 4 scum. Scum can win by either the traditional fashion, or by destroying 5 specific players or the other 5 specific players as an alternative wincon. It is immediately obvious that we should not share our alignment. Anarcy fo life On March 27 2012 10:13 Nemesis wrote: Do you mind posting something coherent? This is a rather crappy post. Town SHOULD always take a stance. If your stance change throughout the game, then you just have to explain why it changed. Scum are the only one who should fear taking stances, as they can get caught when their explanation doesn't match with their stance. The town should not take a unified stance. If we rigidly follow a unified stance scum will just crap on us. We must always adapt to the situation at hand. The idea that you're somehow gonna catch scum because of their thoughts on a POLICY LYNCH is so utterly preposterous as to be asinine in character. Policy lynches are the last resort of a lost town, not some vital centerpiece for scumhunting. I hope you can understand that. ![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/iUBP2UtMo1zk2.gif) In this image: Blazinghand and Nemesis. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 12:22 Nemesis wrote: Lol, ok one last post before I go to sleep. Stop misrepresenting what I said to defend your scummate: 1. I never said that town should take a unified stance. Just that they should take a stance on important things. 2. I never said we shouldn't adapt. In fact, I explicitly said that stances do change, and you just need to explain it when they change. 3. I never said that discussing policy lynches are important. Sinensis, would you please stop inflating useless topics? 1) the idea that the town should take a stance is not good. Individually, we should make our own stances and developed them with the discussion 3) discussion of policy lynches implies they are important. I believe they are important insofar as we use them in an appropriate faction. It seems to me that your statements are unnecessarily aggressive and are hurting the town atmosphere. Your removal will help the town greatly and improve our discourse. In any case, I think this will be appropriate: ##Vote: Sinensis When you wake up I expect some actually helpful posts. Actually, I expect an OMGUS, but ideally you'd make some helpful posts. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FIZjv.gif) come at me bro | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote: In any case, I think this will be appropriate: ##Vote: Sinensis ROFL OOPS TYPIOO ##Unvote ##Vote: Nemesis NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 22 2012 10:43 Hesmyrr wrote: Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in this thread. Do not PM me your vote. I cannot find the thread. It appears to be an underline rather than a hyperlink. Help? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 12:54 Nemesis wrote: Ok this might be where you misunderstood what I said. 1. By town making stances. I mean townies, now town as a whole. 3. I was discussing policy lynches to move discussion along. We have to start discussion from somewhere. 1) then be clear about it. I don't like having to go after someone and then him saying "well, by 'town' i didn't mean 'the town' but i meant 'townies'"-- communicate precisely whenever possible. 3) well then I have a real lynch to discuss, your lynch. Much more interesting imo. On March 27 2012 12:54 Nemesis wrote: You just agreed with me right here. Cyber_cheese was saying that we shouldn't take a clear stance on anything because we might change our view later on. I pointed out how that is bad for town, tell me do you agree with what he is saying then? Cyber cheese can go eat a carrot. he's not the relevant party here-- you are. mr. scum. On March 27 2012 12:54 Nemesis wrote: Also, I'm being unnecessary aggressive, what do you call those gifs? Maybe you can take your own advice, you hypocrite. My aggression is both a) necessary and 1) hilarious. you aggression is unnecessary and unhelpful, whereas mine is going after an obvious scum player. I also somehow was so aggressive I woke you up several minutes after you went to sleep. Nobody else notices this? Nemesis, a "town" player, decides to go to sleep, but when he is attacked, magically awakens to defend himself? Oh, it could be coincidence, but maybe he was scum and was trying to find an excuse to lurk-- being asleep. Then, when the pressure was on, he blinked. he felt a need to defend himself, because he is scum. He has already been caught in a lie. What say you to this, sir? I am more confident than ever in your scumminess. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 12:59 EchelonTee wrote: preface: this aint no chainsaw blzinghand, I feel that you're being the unnecessarily aggressive one here. first you say it's bad that nemesis is using policy as a centerpiece for lynching, then you state it's bad that nemesis says policy lynch discussion isn't important? your arguement doesn't flow. and dude, you misread his original post; he's saying "town should take stance" as in townies should each have their own stance. ur being all flashy and stuff. is this normal BH? Yeah i'm typically rather aggressive. But it is necessary, and I will not discard my aggression, for it is a vital tool. It has already exposed that Nemesis' lies and it will do more as the game goes on. Maybe he's just a town player who didn't think things through carefully and worded his posts ambiguously (in an attack that is fundamentally about wording posts). But the fact of the matter is, he did somehow wake up to respond to my posts. He will doubtlessly claim that he hadn't yet gone to bed... but bear in mind that his series of actions is distinctly something a scum player WOULD do. + Show Spoiler + reddit.com/r/gifs | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 13:15 EchelonTee wrote: blzinghand i think you talking craAAAzzzy, and not the crazy I like. I mean just look at this nonsensical post + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z8LzZ.gif) Blazinghand: I thought you went to sleep. Nemesis: I was just checking thr- Blazinghand: He lied!! Townies never wake back up!! Lynch!!! Jubjubs (chanting): It makes so much sense! The first line, yes. The remaining three have not happened (yet). I suspect Nemesis has realized that feigning sleep would be his best move here-- an accurate perception. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
In my interpretation, yes. I believe the implication is that both C_C and I are scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 13:26 johnnywup wrote: I don't think you're mafia, blazing, because no mafia would be so stupid to post something so stupid. At least I think. Utterly garbage posting so far. bad logic, anti-town to be bad logic. This kind of thinking hurts town. If you plan on using this sort of reasoning going forwards, you are either scum or worthless town. ##unvote ##vote: johnnywup I'd say "come at me bro" but your argumentation skills are so benign I feel like any "pressure" you put on me will only serve to exonerate me. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 14:39 EchelonTee wrote: hey lurkers/semi-newbies who haven't posted yet! feel free to start posting, don't mind the hubbub ^^ what's your opinion on the state of town? answer soon pls!! relevant topics include Fixed that for you. There is only one relevant topic so far. The closed setup is closed and policy lynches are what they are. Redirecting people away from addressing the topic at hand is unhelpful. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 15:08 johnnywup wrote: aren't you full of yourself blazinghand? everythings gotta be about you huh? When nobody else is posting content, yes. Everything does have to be about me. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 15:13 EchelonTee wrote: I am encouraging players who have not posted yet to come in and post, and in people's opening posts they often address topics that are RELEVANT to the beginning of a game. Am I REALLY being unhelpful BH? Are you REALLY being more helpful than me, with your subversive aggression? I don't expect a logical response, I expect OMGUS. Other people can comment on this if they wish. You're making utterly no sense. No subversion here; I am utterly open. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fGbjD.gif) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 14:07 johnnywup wrote: i'm absolutely flattered <3 irony? and hows it anti-town to have bad logic? it just means you're unhelpful, that doesn't mean you're anti-town.. And my logic is perfectly sound thank you. the idea that someone would play poorly meaning they're not scum is utterly preposterous and you know it. If you use bad logic like that in arguments, you create a scenario that scum can manipulate to its advantage. if you are unhelpful, you are anti-town. you can be anti-town by being a worthless or actively bad townie. I'm astonished I have to explain this to you. Bad town play hurts the town. that's you. you're hurting us. stop it. ow. ow. On March 27 2012 14:07 johnnywup wrote: One thing that really sets me off about you is your willingness to shift your vote to me after any pressure at all. You didn't have a case on Nemesis and you don't have a case on me. you didn't pressure me, you defended me, and you did so in a sloppy, bad fashion. you deserve my vote, and i see no reason to shift it off you. you have failed to adequately address my principle cliam. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
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On March 27 2012 15:25 VisceraEyes wrote: Blaze, it's only pressure if what you're saying is true. You're so blatant about your logic being ridiculous that it's not even intimidating and only serves to make you look suspicious. Now cut out the dramatics or I'll join the jubjubs and scum in lynching you...even if you're town. I daresay my logic is largely non-ridiculous. It may appear ridiculous to you, but god does not play dice with the universe. Humor me a moment, and let me seduce you with my lascivious arguments. A) Johnnywup's initial "pressure" on me was actually rather half-assed and non-comittal. I found his statement that "scum wouldn't play this bad" (or equivalent) to be an anti-town statement. B) I call him out in a typically aggressive fashion. He responds in this way: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=9#171 On March 27 2012 14:07 johnnywup wrote: i'm absolutely flattered <3 irony? and hows it anti-town to have bad logic? it just means you're unhelpful, that doesn't mean you're anti-town.. And my logic is perfectly sound thank you. One thing that really sets me off about you is your willingness to shift your vote to me after any pressure at all. You didn't have a case on Nemesis and you don't have a case on me. This is generally a bad post. I really don't like this particular section: and hows it anti-town to have bad logic? it just means you're unhelpful, that doesn't mean you're anti-town. I think any marginally experienced player, or even someone who sits down and thinks about how mafia works should realize that bad logic being posted in the thread DOES hurt the town. as a town player, you want to avoid doing this. As a scum player, you are happy when you see this. bad logic hurts the town. it is anti town, then. And other than these two posts, he has had a generally underwhelming filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686&user=99700 "But, blazinghand, most of JW's stuff wasn't even there during your initial accusation! what was the deal there?" Admittedly, my first post in which I voted him was grasping slightly at straws. this town is silent and there was basically no analysis happening. I needed to get things rolling. His utterly catastrophic responses to me after voting him have made me realize that this guy is scum, and deserves to be lynched. Anybody who examines his filter can look and see that there is something amiss. this is now how a town player would play. I stand by my vote, for new reasons that are stronger than the ones for which it was initially made. The evidence is there. all you need to do is open your eyes. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 15:36 cccalf wrote: You haven't asked or directed anything towards me so what am I supposed to say? It's only the first day, no need to get accusatory. While Blazinghand is being aggressive and a little narcissistic, it's just to stimulate conversation, I don't think he's scum. you could always ask questions of your own, or contribute to the discussion independently. Initiative isyrous to take. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 15:44 johnnywup wrote: just because i don't have as many posts doesn't mean I'm scum, blazing. My posts are more thought out. Your posts are yelling at anyone who directs a post at you. I don't find that particularly town-like. ##vote Blazinghand So, you have no response to my continued assertion that your statements dont' make sense and your general argumentation is anti-town? I'm not questioning the number or size of your posts, if you actually read my argument. I have questioned the CONTENT of your posts. Outside of the two that i object to, you have posted no content. In my opinion, the only content you have posted hurts town. Your posts are scummy, and your attempt to try to get a wagon started on me is laughable. wagons are started with arguments, not votes, my friend. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, it seems that after a great deal of prodding, and after I explicitly called him out after he voted me, JW has finally posted a... "case" on me. I use that word with the greatest hesitance, as one might refer to a popgun as a "firearm" or to a typewriter as a "word processor" since I must admit, short of a few particular gems by Bluelightz, I have never quite seen a case this ill-founded. Let us then proceed into the darkness. I will explain in grievous detail exactly how and why this fellow is wrong. To begin, we have all seen the great reluctance with which JW has committed to any sort of statement on anything of importance this game, and the great lengths I had to go to, even after he voted me, to get him to post a case. Imagine, for a moment, you're a town player in JW's position; Blzinghand is bothering you, and hey, maybe he's scum. What would you do? Well, maybe you'd do some research on Blzinghand's previous games. Maybe you'd take a look at his filter this game. Whatever you'd do, you'd probably try to refine your read if possible. If you don't have enough information, you might ask him some questions. If you have a fair amount of information and believe he is scum, you might make a case to pressure him. And if you're very sure of yourself, or you really want to ramp up the pressure, you will append a vote to your case. The reason you do this is to attempt to lynch him, or to bluff to attempt to lynch him. That is the purpose of the vote. Sounds reasonable enough. Now, JW did not quite do this. He voted me, THEN wrote a case AFTERWARDS. I find this unbelievably suspicious and scummy. "Now wait," you may say, "perhaps he is like you! I remember you made a pretty flimsy case with an initial vote, then filled it out with a more extensive case when you had more information. Do you think JW was perhaps doing the same thing?" That's a fair question. Let's examine what he did here: On March 27 2012 15:44 johnnywup wrote: just because i don't have as many posts doesn't mean I'm scum, blazing. My posts are more thought out. Your posts are yelling at anyone who directs a post at you. I don't find that particularly town-like. ##vote Blazinghand This actually... doesn't look so bad. It looks like Blzinghand made some shitty post trying to get JW lynched for semi-lurking. Blzinghand is attacking everyone who directs a post at him-- an un-townlike action. If that's really the case, then it would be difficult indeed for JW to actually formulate a case against me! This looks like a normal pressure vote to try to force a regular confrontation, rather than a cornered scum trying to silence an aggressive townie. So, what was he responding to? What half-assed, short, un-analyzable post merited a vote with such a terse explanation? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=10#191 + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 15:34 Blazinghand wrote: I daresay my logic is largely non-ridiculous. It may appear ridiculous to you, but god does not play dice with the universe. Humor me a moment, and let me seduce you with my lascivious arguments. A) Johnnywup's initial "pressure" on me was actually rather half-assed and non-comittal. I found his statement that "scum wouldn't play this bad" (or equivalent) to be an anti-town statement. B) I call him out in a typically aggressive fashion. He responds in this way: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=9#171 This is generally a bad post. I really don't like this particular section: I think any marginally experienced player, or even someone who sits down and thinks about how mafia works should realize that bad logic being posted in the thread DOES hurt the town. as a town player, you want to avoid doing this. As a scum player, you are happy when you see this. bad logic hurts the town. it is anti town, then. And other than these two posts, he has had a generally underwhelming filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686&user=99700 "But, blazinghand, most of JW's stuff wasn't even there during your initial accusation! what was the deal there?" Admittedly, my first post in which I voted him was grasping slightly at straws. this town is silent and there was basically no analysis happening. I needed to get things rolling. His utterly catastrophic responses to me after voting him have made me realize that this guy is scum, and deserves to be lynched. Anybody who examines his filter can look and see that there is something amiss. this is now how a town player would play. I stand by my vote, for new reasons that are stronger than the ones for which it was initially made. The evidence is there. all you need to do is open your eyes. ...oh. Hm. That looks like a pretty long, well-thought out argument. That looks like something JW could have written a case from, if I really had no ground to stand on. In fact... it's kind of surprising that JW didn't respond to my allegations in the post in which he votes me. In fact, he even references it when he claims he's not lurking in his voting post. How could he have possibility missed it? The answer, of course, is obvious. JW did not miss my post. He decided that the adequate response to a detailed case against him was a brief, empty paragraph and a vote. In fact, this is actually a textbook case of an OMGUS. I hate referencing OMGUS, because it is so often misused-- the fact of the matter is, there are plenty of times you may want to make a case against someone who is pressuring you or being aggressive. It happens all the time, and it isn't OMGUS. OMGUS is about the sort of content-free, reflexive defense a scum will bring to bear in a panic when he realizes he's cornered. It's about this situation, here. It's about JW. After I increase the pressure, he finally goes back to my post and makes an analysis. Something that, in fact, is what he would have done BEFORE making his vote that references the post if he were indeed town-aligned. The very case itself is a farce, but I must of course address it here, since it represents a continued development of JW's OMGUS. Let's take a look: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 16:01 johnnywup wrote: I never tried to start a wagon on you. I pointed out that your posts are stupid. You said "look at his filter, you can see he's scum!". That's general. I didn't know if you meant content or size, or what. This is a classic misrepresentation of my case. If you remember back to my post, which he oddly enough doesn't quote (despite quoting later sections of it below), I say this: " And other than these two posts, he has had a generally underwhelming filter:" That is highly different than "look at his filter, you can see he's scum!"-- the sentence is specifically talking about content. I eviscerate his two posts with content, then note that his filter is underwhelming. To any reasonable person, this is me saying "JW hasn't said anything of value outside of these two posts". Hope that clears it up for everyone. On March 27 2012 16:01 johnnywup wrote: bold 1: so people can't be bad? bold 2: You're playing bad. You're calling out people for absolutely 0 reason. Bad arguments=scum right? Look in the mirror, buddy. bold 3: i never defended you. I pointed out your posts were bad and I neither attacked your nor defended you at that point. I just pointed things out. But you got defensive and started attacking me. I don't understand your logic here. Theses three areas are blatant misrepresentations by JW. The first statement I make is that "excluding someone from being scum just because they're bad is not reasonable". JW 's question 1 is retarded. 2: reasonably, JW should recognize that my arguments are bad and should have responded to them in his initial vote post, but somehow had to wait until now to do so. 3: JW did in fact defend me by stating I was probably not scum despite "bad" posts. This sort of hedging is typical tracks being laid down by a scum player so that he can go back later and be proven right. On March 27 2012 16:01 johnnywup wrote: for what reason would i be scum rather than a bad townie? just because? bold 1: me thinking you're bad makes me anti town? And I didn't intend to commit, I merely pointed out why what you said is stupid, like I've said. bold 2: please, please tell me blazing, how would a town player play? How should I play mafia, tell me! I don't understand the needless attacking of me. Please help me understand why I'm scum, blazing. I really do want to know. 1) another misrepresentation. I think that him being non-comittal is typical scum play. 2) Rhetorical questions. no value here. Overall, you can see that JW's "case" was A) made long after the fact of his vote, and only after i pressured him to produce it, a typical scum move with a typical OMGUS B) is generally flimsy and is based on blatant misrepresentation of my arguments. As a result, I am not convinced at all of his innocence, and am in fact more and more convinced that he is panicking scum. Thank you for your time. Vote JW for D1 lynch! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
@JW: Come at me bro + Show Spoiler [Jw's "case" on blazi…] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/htv4v.gif) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 14:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote: 'If he's town' is good for setting up a safe escape when a mafia lead lynch goes badly, but townies shouldn't need an escape. This is a slippery slope that scum love. Lets try to lynch scum, and settle for nothing less k? Did you literally not read the sentence that followed that one? Here let me include the entire quote for you, since through some incredible feat of mental trickery you missed it: On March 27 2012 13:04 Blazinghand wrote: Maybe he's just a town player who didn't think things through carefully and worded his posts ambiguously (in an attack that is fundamentally about wording posts). But the fact of the matter is, he did somehow wake up to respond to my posts. He will doubtlessly claim that he hadn't yet gone to bed... but bear in mind that his series of actions is distinctly something a scum player WOULD do. Oh hey, what's that? Blzinghand was just introducing that as a counterpoint so he could IMMEDIATELY shoot it down? he wasn't hedging, but actually being an aggressive manly man with enormous muscles, and C_C is either a knave or a fool? Hey, how about that. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6DdDc.gif) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 07:41 Cyber_Cheese wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P7KtZ.jpg) Alright boys, lets do this. Something about this seems suss. Compensating for some sort of guilt perhaps? I concur with VE that this is a troubling post. I do not like that C_C soft-claimed his nationality. As a town player this is either a huge mistake or some kind of shitty gambit. As a scum player, this is... I don't even know what this is. I eagerly anticipate C_C's reasoning for this post. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On the prix fixe menu today: Amuse Bouche cccalf Entree JW Plats Principaux ET CC Desserts Voting someone In any case, to start things off, my thoughts on our resident semi-inactive: On March 27 2012 15:36 cccalf wrote: You haven't asked or directed anything towards me so what am I supposed to say? It's only the first day, no need to get accusatory. While Blazinghand is being aggressive and a little narcissistic, it's just to stimulate conversation, I don't think he's scum. You're on my "list". The reason for this is your short filter. The game's been going long enough I imagine you would have posted something besides some wishy washy statement on me. There are lots of things to talk about. Get off your ass and make some cases and votes. A high-res pictorial analysis of the current cccalf situation: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Iu2Rg.png) As you can see, cccalf has one short useless post, and is therefore on blzinghand's "list" of players who are hurting town. Next up, I'll read through what JW has said in my absence and possibly re-evaluate my vote on him. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 27 2012 17:00 johnnywup wrote: BH was just pissing me off. In reality I don't really have any evidence that shows him to be scummy. ##unvote BlazingHand This is actually pretty reasonable. He had no evidence, he was just mad. Okay. Let's read the rest of his post. On March 27 2012 17:00 johnnywup wrote: And I don't know why you keep saying "JW is so scummy! lynch lynch lynch!!!" and thats the essence of what you're saying.. And I don't have to give you a long response to a long post. Your long post doesn't say much, really. So neither does my response have to. (Btw I was voting because of things I already said, not just things i said in the post that I voted in) Now I'm confused again. JW, why did you vote me? Were you mad? Was it because of the "reasoning" you gave before you voted me? Or was it because of the "reasoning" that was in the voting post? It certainly wasn't the case I finally pressured you into giving me after the fact... so what's the deal? Or are you just scum? Taking a look at JW's posts following his unvote, he makes a case against ET and votes him. I don't think the case really holds water, but this is how I'd expect a newish town player to play. Then, he defends C_C fairly aggressively against VE. But let's take a look at his next vote-change: He starts off by addressing some pressure from ET, which isn't really related to the matter at hand. The latter end of his post, though, is: On March 28 2012 08:50 johnnywup wrote: [/spoiler]I don't think you're scum VE so I'll just trust you. I don't think I'm being unreasonable, having an opinion and all. My argument against ET wasn't very strong, but it was something. I couldn't link why you thought he was scum until you explained it to me, so thanks for that. Your argument is better now that I see what you mean. I don't suppose many people think I'm town right now, and I don't think that me submitting to lynching C_C will really change much, but I'll do what I can to clear my name. ##unvote EchelonTee ##vote Cyber_Cheese [spoiler ]note to self: don't try and be helpful because my arguments are terrible and have me look like scum in both of the games I've played. Emphasis mine. JW's reasoning is basically "I think VE is town, so I trust him. I wasn't able to understand why claiming a nationality was bad, but after some explanation, I get it now. I'm voting C_C to clear my name, but I don't think it'll help. Hey guys, I'm usually bad at this game, check my meta." This is really bad. Whatever your personal thoughts are on people's alignment, you don't place the fate of your vote in their hands. I'm not entirely clear on whether C_C is town or scum, though I personally don't like his play. But I think that trying to shift the "blame" of your vote onto someone else like JW is doing here is either scummy or enormously bad town play. I'm gonna go with scummy. I don't like that he views the C_C lynch in terms of his own credibility. And I REALLY don't like the fact that he's referencing his own meta. It's very, very typical scum play to talk about how you're "bad" or "have trouble convincing people" or in general to publicly doubt yourself in this fashion. I can't tell from his post if he's trying to bus C_C, or if he knows C_C is town and is trying to absolve guilt, or what, but I can tell one thing for sure: He's waffling, flip-floping, and hedging. I don't like that. I don't like it at all. I see no reason to unvote JW at this point. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 03:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Preparing a decent explaination of my stance on him and a couple of others now, just throwing it out there in advance to give you more time to discuss A shitty defense of his flag post, but the only one he could reasonably make. If he's town, that's probably the right move, since he doesn't want to claim a nationality-- and if he didn't know that before, he knows it now. If he's scum, he's trying to distance himself from that post. This tells us nothing beyond the fact that he made that flag post. This sort of Bluelightz vote is what I'd expect from someone who's never played with Bluelightz. I personally have a great deal of trouble getting reads on Bluelightz in the games I've played with him. Bluelightz is typically utterly worthless as a townie, so much so that he looks vaguely scummy. As scum, he's usually fairly obvious as well. I'll have to make a determination on which he is after we clear out the obvious scum from this thread. I like that he attacks Sinensis. I don't like that he doesn't press the issue. On March 28 2012 08:03 Cyber_Cheese wrote: What's this? Fear tactics half way into day 1? Shutting down other potential candidates? A legitimate criticism of VE's statement. I don't like single-wagon towns-- this typically means something is wrong. That being said, C_C is smart enough that he'd make this statement as scum as well. I find this unconvincing. He has some various prods and defending statements in his filter (which, although short, contains lots of words), but what jumps out at me is this, his most recent post, and voteswitch: On March 28 2012 08:56 Cyber_Cheese wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Johnnywup Blatently defending me to that extent. Not many townies would have logically done it, but scum will know I flip town and end up looking good afterwards. He's my best read. I think town CC would do this. Town CC would notice JW and be like "what the hell man" and vote him. I'd anticipate a bit more of a case, but this is exactly what CC would do in this situation if he were town, because JW is being super weird. That being said, Scum CC might also do this. It's a decent bus, and JW can better justify his vote against CC on emotional grounds since he's established as a shitty, emotional player. The thing both of these scenarios have in common is that JW is scum. Either a town CC is trying to make the most of his time left alive, or a scum CC is executing a fairly obvious bus. This makes me more and more confident that lynching JW D1 is the best move. On March 28 2012 11:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote: [/spoiler]I've been using a simple system to keep track of people, and I have the game solved. It's just a matter of waiting it out now. [spoi ler=gg] ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WcKq7.png) I don't like this post, for obvious reasons. Another soft claim of being SU? + Show Spoiler [really?] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4eh5t.gif) I don't like C_C, but the case for him being scum SUPPORTS the case for JW being scum. At this moment I'd like to lynch JW, but if the CC wagon rolls across the finish line I would find that acceptable, if sub-optimal. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 11:51 Sinensis wrote: Back from work. So you just alignment claimed soviet for the second time? You are also grouping people based on Nationality. Only one class benefits from grouping based on Nationality, so indeed, gg Nazi. ##vote: Cyber_Cheese Let me get this straight: you think that this post you've quoted somehow has anything to do with anyone's nationality? C_C only knows his own nationality... and he's already soft-claimed AND backtracked SU. There's literally no way he was gonna align-fish anything with this latter post that he wouldn't have already with the first post, assuming people are reading the thread. This is a bad and scummy reason to vote for C_C. Was the flag not enough, but somehow this graphic is? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 11:56 Sinensis wrote: It is the combination of the flag and the graphic, and the fact that he is segregating names in his graphic based on nationality. Explain how the segregating names in his graphic based on nationality does anything to help scum or hurt town? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The flag shoudl be fairlly obvious, you soft-claimed a nationality and implicitly align-fished as a result. I'm confused about the graphic too though | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 12:00 Sinensis wrote: Mafia wins if they kill every citizen of one nationality. Dividing reads by nationality supports that agenda. How could he possibly know anybody's nationality? How could anyone possibly know anybody's nationality, or even have a read on it? | ||
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On March 28 2012 12:12 Sinensis wrote: C_C, the "soviet scientist's," posts would have me beg to differ. Assuming CC is indeed town and not scum, I currently do not have a read on whether or not he is US or SU, and nobody who is reasonable does either. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CaY6A.png) | ||
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Right, but you admit you don't know whether anyone is US or SU, and it's GOOD that this is the case. In any case C_C is probably scum, but JW is DEFINITELY scum. That being said, it's not unreasonable that they're both scum. I think JW is a better lynch than C_C for reasons I have outlined in my two analysis posts above. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 12:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Well you're wrong about that - JW is not DEFINITELY scum, and C_C is DEFINITELY scum. You're only saying he's "probably scum" so you can try and convince people that JW is a better lynch, when he's not. JW isn't actively disrupting town. JW isn't trolling the rest of town. JW isn't nationality fishing and JW is a new player. C_C is the lynch today BH. If you disagree, you're obviously scum. Period. Are you scum BH? I don't negotiate with terrorists. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
In fact, I think there's only one reasonable response to terrorist style tactics. VE is scum trying to gain town cred and using his terror tactics to keep people in line. When I was elected to be the president of the great state of blzinghand I did so on a platform of no negotiating with terrorists. Let me explain the situation here: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VgNdK.png) ##unvote ##vote: VisceraEyes Come at me, bro. | ||
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Blazinghand
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He wants to lynch anyone who doesn't agree with him. Is that how you promote a good town atmosphere? I THINK NOT. Even *I*, the most aggressive and insane of players, understand that people can disagree with me without being scum. VE knows this. Town VE would know this. But instead, he's promoting a campaign of terrorism. A campaign for which WE CANNOT STAND. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 12:35 VisceraEyes wrote: C_C is the lynch today BH. If you disagree, you're obviously scum. Period. Are you scum BH? Does this look like a guy trying to help the town atmosphere, or is this a guy trying to cement is town rep and dissuade people from turning against him? This is NOT how you help the town. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 12:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't need to - you just claimed scum. GG sir. If I claimed scum, stop being afraid and vote me. Certainly a scumclaim is stronger than whatever C_C did, right? If I literally claimed scum, as a town player you have to lynch me. Unless, of course, you realize that if I flip, your cover is blown, and your "case" against me is actually flimsy and worthless, and you don't want to lose the town support you've so carefully built. Your terrorists tactics will not work here sir. Come at me if I claimed scum. Vote me. It's what a TOWN VE would do. But that's not you, is it? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 12:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The thing is, he tunnelled me to a stupid extent in mafia L too. (I think it was L anyway...) I wouldn't put it past him to be accidentally destroying town atmosphere. This seems far more purposeful than something by accident. Threatening anyone who disagrees with him with lynching? That's not an accident. Saying I claimed scum then abandoning the thread? That's not an accident. VE is perfectly capable of playing a high-post-count scum, and that's what he's doing now. Here's my new pictorial analysis of the game: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tIz0J.png) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 12:48 Sinensis wrote: Not that arguing with you has produced results for anyone else that has tried, but is this the anaysis post you are referring to? + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 15:34 Blazinghand wrote: I daresay my logic is largely non-ridiculous. It may appear ridiculous to you, but god does not play dice with the universe. Humor me a moment, and let me seduce you with my lascivious arguments. A) Johnnywup's initial "pressure" on me was actually rather half-assed and non-comittal. I found his statement that "scum wouldn't play this bad" (or equivalent) to be an anti-town statement. B) I call him out in a typically aggressive fashion. He responds in this way: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=9#171 This is generally a bad post. I really don't like this particular section: I think any marginally experienced player, or even someone who sits down and thinks about how mafia works should realize that bad logic being posted in the thread DOES hurt the town. as a town player, you want to avoid doing this. As a scum player, you are happy when you see this. bad logic hurts the town. it is anti town, then. And other than these two posts, he has had a generally underwhelming filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686&user=99700 "But, blazinghand, most of JW's stuff wasn't even there during your initial accusation! what was the deal there?" Admittedly, my first post in which I voted him was grasping slightly at straws. this town is silent and there was basically no analysis happening. I needed to get things rolling. His utterly catastrophic responses to me after voting him have made me realize that this guy is scum, and deserves to be lynched. Anybody who examines his filter can look and see that there is something amiss. this is now how a town player would play. I stand by my vote, for new reasons that are stronger than the ones for which it was initially made. The evidence is there. all you need to do is open your eyes. I redded the part I need to comment on, not because I am speculating you are Soviet but just because there is a lot of other formatting in this post. Your argument against johnny is that bad logic hurts the town and he said otherwise. You say bad logic hurts the town and is thus anti town again in this post. There's two examples of your belief that "bad logic hurts the town and is thus anti town." Well maybe you could comment on some of your own bad logic. Or do you need me to go back and quote just about every post you made in the beginning to remind you? My point is the case you are using against johnnywup works better on you than it does him, and that if "bad logic" is the criteria you are going to use to place your vote, maybe you ought to vote yourself. You're literally not reading the thread, are you? Here are my three most recent analysis posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#341 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#352 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#355 | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 12:48 slOosh wrote: @Blazinghand Are you saying that VE started up the CC bus and drove it home in order to gain infinite town cred? Or am I mistaken to say that you thought CC was scum (as 2nd option to JW)? I currently think VE is scum. I'm not clear what the deal is with CC and JW. I think they're scummy as well. There's SOME possibility that all three are indeed scum in some horrific multi-bussing conspiracy, but it's probably that one of them is a townie. VE could have "accidentally" derailed town, as CC put it. CC might be town, but as town he's usually more helpful. Some have claimed JW is just bad, which I doubt-- but there's always the possibility. The point I'm trying to make here is that VE is an important town leader at the moment, and he's gone off the deep end with his terrorism and terrorist plots. He's incredibly dangerous and he is hurting the town. I will not abide by his terrorist tactics, as it shuts down meaningful discussion of lynches. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 12:52 Cyber_Cheese wrote: At any rate, I'm willing to vote JW, and he's on your scum list too. Want to start there? If you don't think VE is scum, I wouldn't mind help with a JW wagon. That being said, of the three of you who I suspect as scum, VE is by far the most dangerous, as a town leader and as a terrorist. JW is fairly benign, as he himself notes-- he's bad at making arguments and pushing wagons. I'd be comfortable with lynching him, but if VE is scum we really should try to get him D1. I'd really prefer a VE lynch though. I'm going to see if I can drum up support and convince the others that we need to take him down. If that fails, then a JW lynch is on the table, and so is letting your wagon roll across the line. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:03 johnnywup wrote: I have a question, BH. Why do you think that VE is scum even after he's been actively pushing to lynch someone who's on your scum list? Two possibilities 1) I'm wrong about C_C or VE or Both 2) http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:06 Nemesis wrote: What a shitty non-committal post. "I think VE is scum, but JW or CC might be scum too." Take a stance on which ONE among them you actually think is scum. You are saying that they might all be scum, but VE is the most dangerous one. It doesn't matter who is more dangerous as scum(if that was the case we'd instantly lynch all veteran players), but who is most likely scum. Unless you are trying to say that all three of them are all scum, which is quite improbable. Your'e a moron. I've taken a stance. I've voted VE. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:09 Blazinghand wrote: Your'e a moron. I've taken a stance. I've voted VE. It's utterly preposterous that a Town-aligned VE would stifle town discussion by terrorizing anyone who disagrees with him. He has to be scum. We should lynch him. | ||
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On March 28 2012 13:19 Nemesis wrote: VE's pretty much just like that. I tunneled him in C9++ mafia for doing that same shit when he was town, but doesn't mean he's scum. Got anything better than him just being VE? I find your meta explanation unacceptable. He also states that I have "claimed" scum, and yet his vote stays on someone else-- if I have truly claimed scum, why didn't he move his vote? He's just trying to silence legitimate voices in the town to cement his leadership. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:24 VisceraEyes wrote: He doesn't. That's all. I can't control anyone's vote. That's the big secret. But I'm on a fucking bender finding scum. Say what you want about my tactics. Luck only gets you so far. Are you gonna vote me, or retract your statement that I "claimed" scum? Pick one. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:26 Blazinghand wrote: Are you gonna vote me, or retract your statement that I "claimed" scum? Pick one. Still waiting on this. | ||
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On March 28 2012 13:32 VisceraEyes wrote: I can only lynch one of you BH. You're being ridiculous. Now, C_C is on your scumlist. Quit being unreasonable and vote for C_C. Why are you making this hard? If I claimed scum, and you truly believe this to be the case, am I being ridiculous? Alternatively, if you are a scum player seizing control of the town and I am a town player, am I being ridiculous? No, the only possibility where I'm being ridiculous is if we're both town. That's not the case here. So I'm not being ridiculous. And I'm still waiting for either a vote from you or a retraction of your statement that I claimed scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm voting for C_C BH. I think you should too. <3 I'm done with this argument. It's going nowhere. No, you don't think I should-- you think I'm scum, right? Unless you think one of me or C_C is town. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The reason this argument is going nowhere is that you think I claimed scum. You think that anyone who disagrees with you automatically claims scum. That's not a good, reasonable way to run a town. You can't have a debate like that. Unless you're willing to end your terror tactics, I am obligated to not cooperate with you. In fact, I need to get you lynched, since it's becoming more and more clear you're scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:38 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't care if you're scum or town, I want C_C lynched today. Your vote would help me. You're being obtuse. You think I'm scum. You think I'm claimed scum. Why aren't you voting me? A town-aligned VE would vote someone who he thinks has claimed scum. Either you're not voting a guy who, as you think claimed scum, or you don't actually think I've claimed scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 28 2012 13:39 slOosh wrote: If VE is bussing CC, how is voting CC a bad thing? Is it that you think VE gains infinite town cred -> unlynchable that you stress this now? Voting CC isn't a bad thing, if VE and CC are both scum. That being said, it seems to me that VE is scum, and his response to any sort of questioning of his position or even his case on CC means that the person questioning MUST be claiming scum. This is not the attitude of a town player. This is evidence that VE is scum. So he must die. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 28 2012 13:42 VisceraEyes wrote: But that's not what's going on here. I find your absolute refusal to listen to reason regarding Jdub and voting for C_C to be scummy as shit. It has nothing to do with "terror tactics". It has everything to do with your actions in the game and my interpretation of them. Now, if you'd do something...such as vote for C_C and grant Jdub time to prove his alignment further to you (because your Jdub wagon is going nowhere you idiot)...then maybe the reasons I think you're scum would......DISAPPEAR. Like magic, see? You're being ridiculous, and I think that it means you're scum. *shrug* Now stop being abrasive and vote for C_C please. Ah, at last some reasoning! Let me break this down for you: I was like "JW seems like scum to me". Then he made various responses, which made me think he was more scummy. All his votes and reasonings behind them strike me as highly scummy. I've addressed him and given him plenty of time to respond, and EVERY RESPONSE has made him seem scummier and scummier. grant him time to prove his alignment? The dude's made tons of posts and has had over a day. he had his time, and he proved his alignment. And then you come in here as the biggest terrorist ever. You say "oh it's not real terror tactics" but what else do you call it? Do you really think JW is town? I don't think so. So you're labeling me as scum because of the ORDER we were gonna lynch the scum players in? No, that's not a town VE play. That's scum VE trying to retain control of the town. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I will let your exaggeration pass this time, Mr. VE. That being said, I've got my eye on you. No more inconsistencies. IF you think someone is claimed scum, you better vote them. ##unvote VE [b]##vote johnnywup[/v] | ||
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##vote johnnywup | ||
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On March 28 2012 13:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Srsly, you're the hammer on C_C. You don't want the POWAH? It's Extended Majority Lynch. No hammering. | ||
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On March 28 2012 14:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I only played a couple, but he literally did claim scum last game. Seems like a much more involved and active Blue this game. Also this sort of list-making is typical BL town play. Kinda unhelpful? Yes. But it's how he plays town. See Purgatory Mafia as an example. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
C_C, it looks like you have about an hour and a half to live. It's fairly unlikely that I (or anyone else) can stop this wagon now. That being said, there's still things you can do. When you flip, if you're town, you'll be confirmed town, and you already know how you're going to flip. If you're town, you should prepare a clear, concise, and well-argued post of your reads. You know just as much as we're going to know for the next 24 hours, and this will be a useful statement by a confirmed (if dead) townie. If you are gonna go out D1 as a townie, you must be like the esteemed artist Lil Wayne and die with your finger on the trigger. Do it for the town. | ||
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##vote ccalf If you're not gonna get modkilled you should die scum | ||
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##vote cccalf wrong number of c | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7IgWM.gif) From Left to Right: Blazinghand, Scum, Rest of Town. | ||
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"Blazinghand if you don't vote C_C you're scum" *everyone in the game but blazinghand votes C_C* | ||
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1) give a reason, any reason, you shouldn't be shot tonight by vigi 2) provide some analysis /help to town and/or be useful in any fashion whatsoever | ||
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On March 29 2012 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote: No, there's nothing. He wanted me dead (obv) JW and gonzaw. He wasn't helpful and he was trolling the fuck out of town. I don't regret killing him. I just wish he'd been more helpful. You are aware that I want JW dead, and at one point voted you. Am I also trolling the fuck out of town? Does everyone only fall into the category of "blindly follows VE" or "scum / townie worth dying?" No, I regret that C_C was killed. I am dissapointed in his defense and his scumhunting D1, but I wasn't willing to lynch him. Could it possibly occur to you that you made a mistake in pushing his lynch? | ||
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On March 29 2012 07:16 EchelonTee wrote: what happened to that poetic "no townie is useless" thingamabob? i thought killing "unhelpful" townies was bad or something? VE will say whatever it takes to keep his iron grip on the town secure. | ||
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On March 29 2012 09:15 johnnywup wrote: c^3, although he posted, is clearly trying to get around the 1 post a day/night cycle... he should be modkilled imo I strongly disagree with this. I don't like the way 3C has played, I think it's scummy, but he has not violated the rules of the game. As stated, they are: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled. Is 3C being scummy as hell? sure. Is he barely following the requirements? yes. but he IS following them. Maybe you could even Warn him if you as the host believe that to be valid. However, he has not failed to follow the written activity requirements, and thus should not be modkilled, in my personal opinion. Still want a vigi to shoot him though. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 29 2012 12:08 EchelonTee wrote: oh and blzinghand i think you've referred to "VE" as "ET" a few times. together we make "VET" but i dont think that's what ur goin for That's literally untrue. I challenge you to point out an occasion where this has happened. | ||
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On March 29 2012 13:45 Sinensis wrote: Maybe I am being overly simplistic, but I think we should lynch Blazinghand because I do not believe all 4 scum would vote for the same townie when it was certain the townie was dying anyway. Not overly simplistic: moronical. Provide me with legitimate analysis and I'll address it. I see no reason to respond to garbage posts though. | ||
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On March 29 2012 13:43 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: Great, I'm waiting on your analysis BH. I still want to know what you think about Blue, I don't think you ever stated what you thought about him previously. I haven't made any statements about Bluelightz other than noting that he typically posts unhelpful lists as town. I'll add to that: he posts almost nothing as scum. Any analysis will be posted minutes before daybreak. | ||
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On March 29 2012 13:50 EchelonTee wrote: VE mentioned C_C that time might've been me that time but u never posted anything about me after that, unless i missed it In the former, I wasn't making a case on you. In the latter, I was considering analyzing your posting, but did not. You'll note I didn't post anything about VE in the latter case either until he went mad with power. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 29 2012 13:55 EchelonTee wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that there is definitely 3 scum on the wagon. wait lemme do the math .... yeah there's at least 3 scum on the wagon. In fact, unless you think I am scum (or claimed scum, heh) there is 4 scum on that wagon. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Between now and dawn, you have easily enough time to write some analysis and post it, or do something to help town before you're pushing up daisies. If you are town, this is what you need to do. Your time left is limited. Use it to help town. If you're scum, well, then you might as well be silent, since you're dead anyways. Or you could take a gamble and hope that there aren't any vigis in a 10/4 closed setup. Your call. But if by some stretch of logic, you're town, do what CC couldn't and be useful before you bite the dust. | ||
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Blazinghand
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No, you're wrong, it is he who has been harsh on us with his travesty of a filter. | ||
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On March 30 2012 00:15 froggynoddy wrote: People should stop talking to C_C, he's out of the game. Am in class until an hour before deadline so hopefully will post my thoughts just before in case I yet again die N1. @ BH: What should we do should if we don't have any Vigs? I feel like there are juicier scum targets than him. I guess he'll have 48hrs to defend himself. If right now D2 were coming to an end, my vote would be on 3C. I suspect he will post a great deal between now and the end of D2, though. He better. In the first game I played here on TL, Student Mafia, we made the mistake of having a day entirely without discussion since we thought a guy was "for sure" scum. It was an overwhelming wagon, and there was little to no discussion. We managed to recover from such an unproductive day, but we were lucky. Lynching someone without discussion, without dissent, is dangerous. A day without discussion is a day that's bad for the town. Assuming that 3C isn't killed tonight, he is not "automatically" the lynch tomorrow. There are a number of things that should happen in the next 48 hours: 1) Some counter wagons should get started. People should formulate cases and try to scumhunt and lynch scum. This will help generate evidence and keep the town discussion going. 2) 3C will become more active, and post reads and push cases. If during Day 2 he does not do this, he will certainly be lynched. He can't really "defend" himself since he didn't do anything Day 1. Regardless of the truth of the matter, he'll say "Sorry, I was busy." Statements like that are completely meaningless to me, because that is what scum or town would say. The only defense he can make is to be an asset to the town. 3) Both #1 and #2 will generate discussion. 3C is not an autolynch tomorrow. I do not believe in autolynches. I believe in arguing and finding the truth via discussion. Should I come to believe 3C is town (and I do not currently believe this to be the case), I will argue to defend him even if I am the only one doing so. The only thing that matters is that town players be fearless, perceptive, and willing to discuss and argue. It is for this reason that I found VE's terror tactics abhorrent and it is for this reason that I will argue my cases and push my reads regardless of what people say about me. It is the only way to play and find Truth. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
A D2 in which we discuss a VE lynch (or really any lynch but a 3C lynch) is a D2 that generates tons of evidence, with a chance of lynching scum. A D2 in which we discuss a 3C lynch does not generate nearly as much evidence (at least, not so far, given 3C's filter). This could change if 3C steps up his game, but as it stands, a reasonable vigi who suspects both VE and 3C of being scum would shoot 3C. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 01:59 slOosh wrote: Why is such discussion / analysis wasted? How can you be so sure you will get shot, and if you are why aren't you spending the rest of this night fleshing out your reads? Also this. | ||
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On March 30 2012 02:10 VisceraEyes wrote: An "utterly worthless townie" eh? Cool. Good luck sir. Luck is for people who lead the town on random shitty lynches. I use skill. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes, because this one lynch (of a blatantly anti-town player) is indicative of my skill in finding scum overall. No, go fuck yourself BH. If you're town, find scum without me. I'll be trollin and votin. Good luck Really VE? You don't think there was any mistake in the C_C lynch? Pull your head out of your hat and take a look at the facts. You lead a lynch that had no opposition except me and the guy getting lynched. You strongarmed everyone into joining your wagon. You said I claimed scum when I stood against you. You said "instant town cred" for anyone who jumps on your wagon. You're the single least effective town leader I've encountered, and I've seen a LOT of ineffective town leaders Why won't scum shoot you? 1) You were their greatest Ally D1 with your C_C lynch. You pushed that shit HARD and you know it. 2) You could be scum. In fact, let me picture for you what scum probably felt like as you took control of the town and led the C_C lynch all D1: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rQr6J.gif) You know what the odds are of scum shooting you tonight? Basically zero. You're their bro, wittingly or unwittingly. | ||
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Blazinghand
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If you are shot by scum tonight I will literally eat my hat. IRL. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hqgo2.png) | ||
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Blazinghand
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Temper, temper, Mr "town leader"... | ||
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Blazinghand
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But it IS hilarious. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Meh. I don't even care anymore. If scum don't shoot me, BH is scum, as is zelblade and cccalf. Find the last and we win. gg I hope you're still willing to post your thoughts close to the deadline: On March 30 2012 02:07 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean scum will likely kill me - because I'm one of the only "veterans" in the game. And I've already said - my full thoughts are going to come closer to deadline. After all, if you're legitimately worried about getting shot by scum, you should try to post some real cases before dawn. Just a thought. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
In fact, I daresay I'd like to hear your reasoning behind all your reads. It is good for the town and you know it. Stop being a baby and play the game. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Just post your reads before daybreak. Don't do it for me. Do it for the town. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On March 30 2012 02:35 VisceraEyes wrote: No you don't, you think everything I've done has been worthless. Why are you pretending to care what I think when you've made it clear that my analyisis is a fucking joke and I'm useless as shit? OH I KNOW!!! I KNOW!!!! IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM!!!! I said it once, and I'll say it again: if you're a town aligned player, you'll do this. You won't do it for me, you'll do it for town. Being an effective town leader doesn't just mean herding people in your chosen direction with your iron fist of terror-- it also means picking your targets accurately, making good reads, being well-reasoned, and identifying and helping to build good cases. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't lecture me scum. Do you disagree with the thrust of my argument? I think it's valid. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:42 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact of the matter is that there shouldn't BE a town-leader. The fact of the matter is that everyone should be reading the thread and coming to their own conclusions. Lacking that, I felt the need to provide a strong voice for those who are less than willing to read and think to follow if they wished. Admittedly that came across as a little harsher than I'd intended, but there you have it. So yeah, you could say that I "disagree with the thrust of your argument". I also think you're scum. Let me rephrase, because it would appear I haven't come across clearly. This is the thrust of my argument: On March 30 2012 02:38 Blazinghand wrote: I said it once, and I'll say it again: if you're a town aligned player, you'll do this. You won't do it for me, you'll do it for town. Do you disagree with this? I think I shouldn't have the argue you into providing analysis and reasoning behind your reads. I think you should come forwards with them yourself, before daybreak. | ||
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On March 30 2012 03:07 gonzaw wrote: BH: VE, be sure to post your reads before the deadline; VE: You are scum and I'll get shot tonight; BH: No you wont, you are useless; Also I'd just like to note that puppet VE's statement here is dumb. If he's gonna get shot tonight, HE SHOULD POST HIS ANALYSIS BEFORE THE DEADLINE. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Here are a few thoughts I haven't fully articulated yet in this thread. I'll begin with some thoughts on 3C and VE. Firstly, I wouldn't assume VE is scum just because of his scummy interactions with me. VE being "pissed off" seems a little fake to me, given how typically unfazed he is by this sort of thing. Although VE's town play is typified by caution and a lack of confidence in his own thoughtss gradually unfolding into a solid set of reads, I wouldn't assume he's scum just based on meta. That being said, as I'm sure you're aware, having him lead the town didn't go well. This is in part his fault, but it's also your fault for following him. Don't be afraid to challenge him, or anyone, in the thread. It doesn't make you scum to do so. Arguing is what makes us stronger. Secondly, 3C has done nothing as of the writing of this post to indicate he's town. If he lives through the night and isn't helpful D2, he should be lynched. If he's town, and he's truly done being "busy", you can and should anticipate something better out of him than his current sorry filter. There's some possibility of mod action as well, so that may change things. If he gets replaced out, that doesn't mean he wasn't lurking D1, however. Keep an eye on him, but don't let some single-minded wagon totally crush the town atmosphere like it did in student mafia Day 3. We must not repeat the town's mistake that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=47#933 but only if he contributes. Otherwise, lynch him. SlOosh asked me to take a look at MrZ as a lynch candidate. I thought I'd save his question for later, so here it is: Here are my thoughts on MrZ: + Show Spoiler + 1) he begins by talking about policy lynches, then makes a list of reads that includes no scumreads whatsoever: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 22:49 MrZentor wrote: Sorry, I have been dreaming. Anyways, here are a few of my thoughts. BH seems like a rash townie, who is fairly good a pressuring. However, he doesn't seem able to discern a noobie town from scum. JW seems like a noobie town, who did the wrong thing under pressure and is now realizing this. C_C looks a little suspicious because of his first post, but I feel that people are reading too far into that. VE seems to be promoting a good townie environment and being a lot calmer than BH. I am most afraid of him being scum, because if he were, I would never know. Those are a few thoughts on the biggest players. To be honest, I don't feel there is anybody worth analyzing yet, and there isn't much to analyze. 2) He continues with what I'd characterize as the most noncommittal case possible on ET: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 23:34 MrZentor wrote: *cough* you're *cough* EchelonTee seems to be behaving rather erratically. He starts by being helpful and explaining how he would treat the game. He continues his good townie streak by questioning BH's play with reasons. He then starts to go crazy. He then transitions from crazy back to normal good townie in this post. He does this a few times throughout his posts. To be honest, I can't decide if this is town or mafia behavior. He could be a town who is mixing BH's and VE's styles. He could be scum trying to make it seem like he is helping town while sowing chaos. I'll let somebody else decide. :/ But take a look at how he ends that case. He does this a few times throughout his posts. To be honest, I can't decide if this is town or mafia behavior. He could be a town who is mixing BH's and VE's styles. He could be scum trying to make it seem like he is helping town while sowing chaos. I'll let somebody else decide. :/ This is a very long analysis to be non-committal. "I'll let somebody else decide" could be a noob move, but in my book this is another mark in the "points towards scum" column. Coupled with slOosh's case regarding MrZ's reasoning to hop onto the C_C wagon, I think there's a case to be made here. He's not my main man, though. I think we need to go after Sinensis. See my next post. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
What I'm really interested in, though, is what happened with C_C's wagon. It revealed to me that Sin is scum: The wagon didn't provide me much until I reached the part where Sin votes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#356 On March 28 2012 11:51 Sinensis wrote: Back from work. So you just alignment claimed soviet for the second time? You are also grouping people based on Nationality. Only one class benefits from grouping based on Nationality, so indeed, gg Nazi. ##vote: Cyber_Cheese I don't like this at all. I think this is a completely empty/worthless reason for voting him. IF you look at it, there's no possible way C_C could know the nationality of people other than himself. Sure, he was soft-claiming SU again, but he also has some other named whirled about in his diagram in various locations. Now, to the untrained observer, it might seem like C_C is claiming that me, Nem, and 3C are US, whereas he, JE, and ET are SU. But anyone who recieved a townie PM or read the PM in the OP immediately knows that C_C has NO IDEA what anyone's alignment is but his. Those other names are just put in there randomly. So.. what is Sin talking about here? On March 28 2012 11:51 Sinensis wrote: You are also grouping people based on Nationality. Only one class benefits from grouping based on Nationality, so indeed, gg Nazi. Well, I took the time to ask him. On March 28 2012 11:56 Sinensis wrote: It is the combination of the flag and the graphic, and the fact that he is segregating names in his graphic based on nationality. Emphasis mine. Again, there's no way anyone could know anyone's nationality. What's Sin talking about? This in particular isn't a reason to think C_C is scum. Sure, the fact that he personally has been softclaiming SU, and has been seen as "align-fishing", that's a reason. But the fact that he's "sorting people"? That doesn't make sense at all. I press further: On March 28 2012 12:00 Sinensis wrote: Mafia wins if they kill every citizen of one nationality. Dividing reads by nationality supports that agenda. WHAT?? How? On March 28 2012 12:12 Sinensis wrote: C_C, the "soviet scientist's," posts would have me beg to differ. This doesn't even make sense! This was C_C talking about himself! How could he know any of these people's alignment?? On March 28 2012 12:20 Sinensis wrote: The flag and writing "me" in the soviet side of the graphic was flavor too, right? Have all your posts been flavor only? Maybe we should all give you a clean slate and unvote you since I seem to have voted based on something you posted only for flavor. On March 28 2012 12:27 Sinensis wrote: I consider myself reasonable and I have a read on his alignment. I think he's a nazi. Based on votes, 5 other people thing he's a nazi. Again, this is all based on the LONE guy who softclaimed a nationality in the thread. Sinensis isn't saying "C_C is suspicious because he soft-claimed a nationality, and he's not scumhunting." -- he's saying that C_C somehow has reads on other player's nationalities and is revealing them to his scumbuddies in the thread. Sinensis isn't bringing up some reasonable argument, the argument that all the town players would be convinced by. I keep on pressing, even, and he completely diverts to some unrelated post: + Show Spoiler + On March 28 2012 12:48 Sinensis wrote: Not that arguing with you has produced results for anyone else that has tried, but is this the anaysis post you are referring to? + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 15:34 Blazinghand wrote: I daresay my logic is largely non-ridiculous. It may appear ridiculous to you, but god does not play dice with the universe. Humor me a moment, and let me seduce you with my lascivious arguments. A) Johnnywup's initial "pressure" on me was actually rather half-assed and non-comittal. I found his statement that "scum wouldn't play this bad" (or equivalent) to be an anti-town statement. B) I call him out in a typically aggressive fashion. He responds in this way: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=9#171 This is generally a bad post. I really don't like this particular section: I think any marginally experienced player, or even someone who sits down and thinks about how mafia works should realize that bad logic being posted in the thread DOES hurt the town. as a town player, you want to avoid doing this. As a scum player, you are happy when you see this. bad logic hurts the town. it is anti town, then. And other than these two posts, he has had a generally underwhelming filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686&user=99700 "But, blazinghand, most of JW's stuff wasn't even there during your initial accusation! what was the deal there?" Admittedly, my first post in which I voted him was grasping slightly at straws. this town is silent and there was basically no analysis happening. I needed to get things rolling. His utterly catastrophic responses to me after voting him have made me realize that this guy is scum, and deserves to be lynched. Anybody who examines his filter can look and see that there is something amiss. this is now how a town player would play. I stand by my vote, for new reasons that are stronger than the ones for which it was initially made. The evidence is there. all you need to do is open your eyes. I redded the part I need to comment on, not because I am speculating you are Soviet but just because there is a lot of other formatting in this post. Your argument against johnny is that bad logic hurts the town and he said otherwise. You say bad logic hurts the town and is thus anti town again in this post. There's two examples of your belief that "bad logic hurts the town and is thus anti town." Well maybe you could comment on some of your own bad logic. Or do you need me to go back and quote just about every post you made in the beginning to remind you? My point is the case you are using against johnnywup works better on you than it does him, and that if "bad logic" is the criteria you are going to use to place your vote, maybe you ought to vote yourself. So, to summarize: Sinensis gives a completely nonsense reason for why he voted C_C, and defends it only by diverting my pressure and dodging my questions. nothing he says makes any sense. at all. He proceeds to lurk and only comes back to the thread for a few one-liners without followup and posts this: On March 29 2012 13:45 Sinensis wrote: Maybe I am being overly simplistic, but I think we should lynch Blazinghand because I do not believe all 4 scum would vote for the same townie when it was certain the townie was dying anyway. Which I, of course, personally believe to be trash. ------ So, in summary, I'm sure Sinensis is scum. Judging by the way he voted C_C, and his reasoning for voting C_C, and the way he responded to my questioning, I find this to be very likely. It's also worth noting that he and VE soft defend each other a once, but it could easily be this case with VE being town as well, so it can't be said that it's a scumtell. Still, read through Sinensis explanation for his C_C vote and his response to my pressure. It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. It started here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#356 Sinensis is scum. Read his filter, and his post on C_C, and his reasoning. It will reveal the truth. + Show Spoiler [full list of wagon links] + VE starts the wagon, as we remember, with a case based on the flag post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=10#197 Zelblade is follows up shortly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=12#223 Bluelightz is next: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=16#303 VE moves off C_C to ET: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=16#312 Bluelightz follows him minutes later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=16#317 Bluelightz then moves quickly back: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=17#327 VE moves back 10 minutes later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=17#332 JW moves from ET to VE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=17#333 Sin votes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#356 SlOosh hops on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=20#384 VE makes his "town cred" post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=23#453 Froggy votes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=23#458 MrZ's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=24#463 ET's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=25#485 Gonzaw's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=25#487 3C's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=26#506 | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
good night. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yQQ05.gif) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 04 2012 08:03 VisceraEyes wrote: CHEESE IF YOU HAD PUT ONE IOTA OF EFFORT INTO THE FUCKING GAME.... ...................gg uh-uh. no. you do not get to blame C_C for that travesty of a D1 wagon. Like, he could have played better D1, and yes, I thought he was scummy, but you'll note that I did not want to lynch him. He was not the scummiest. Now, was JW a better lynch? no, it turned out he was just a noob. But the reasons you gave for C_C and the stuff like "Automatic town cred" and "if you go against me you are claiming scum" actively hurt the town. there may have been reasonable reasons to lynch C_C but I honestly think that this game fell apart as soon as we had a single-wagon D1 where everyone hopped on and nobody had any good reasons, including the townie pushing the wagon. In any case, VE's play this game was not typical VE play. In my experience with him, as town, he tends to be relatively conservative but typically correct in his reads. I still don't understand what sinensis was saying about C_C posting "reads" on people's alignment. That was so off course that I could only assume he was a crappy scum player. How could C_C post "reads" on people's alignments? there's no way. I need to work on distinguishing that kind of play from actual scum play. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Meta is a vital tool, but a lynch based purely on meta must be met with many raised eyebrows. That being said, slOosh for MVP townie this game. | ||
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On April 04 2012 13:11 slOosh wrote: Another sadface for Sinensis actually giving up at the end. But I guess it is somewhat understandable that at LYLO two townies think him scum ... still would have liked it if he tried till the end. I find giving up, ESPECIALLY at LYLO, to be unforgivable for a townie. If you give up, that means you stop playing to your wincon. I don't know how anyone finds this to be acceptable play. Even when there's almost no chance whatsoever to stop your own lynch, and even if it's LYLO and the game is about to be over, you die with your finger on the motherfucking trigger and push your scumreads. Anything less is a death without honor. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 04 2012 18:54 Hassybaby wrote: Oh, and sorry BH, we had to write the kill flavour based on your blog :D I thought it was awesome :D except for the part where I left my windows down in the rain ;_; | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
C_C played sub-optimally but he was still trying to win. The case against him WAS pretty crappy and he did try to push his reads. He was just busy during the 4-5 hours leading up to lynch deadline. Could he have done more? definitely. C_C is capable of more. But he did try to win-- he pushed his reads, and to be honest, as the ONLY PERSON IN THE GAME WHO LISTENED TO HIM, I can tell you that he outplayed several town players D1 and even if he seemed scummy should not have been lynched. The blood of his death stains your hands, not his. MrZ isn't THAT guilty imo. Was his D2 play horrifically bad? Imo, yes. But he DID claim doctor, then get lynched. I fault him for his effectiveness, helpfulness, and goodness of play, but he definitely did not want to get lynched. A fool, not a knave. Sinensis even kinda gave up, but again I feel this is more a function of "shitty play" than "didn't want to win". The town atmosphere D3 was well under control of the scumteam. People were discouraged and morale was bad. Sinensis didn't defend himself as well as he could. A fool, not a knave. That being said, I feel that all three of these guys died like punks, through a combination of town actions and their own. They could have defended themselves more vigorously, or pushed their reads better. The only one who's really innocent is C_C. Did he underplay his usual skill D1? sure. He could have easily not been lynched. But a reasonable town would not have lynched C_C. Scum played brilliantly imo. Even our combined efforts we were unable to break VE's terrorist grip on the town, and C_C and I are no small fish at arguing. EDIT: I'm not saying anyone broke the rules. I'm just saying that a death without honor is a sad one indeed. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On April 04 2012 20:43 froggynoddy wrote: Ok fair enough, I retract that post. See you guys in a future game hopefully  . I was not finger pointing as I think we all got outplayed (having noobs like me doesn't help:s), I just felt that Mr Z and Sinensis rlly screwed with my reads.re C_C: I was referring to the flag and to a lesser degree the diagrams... if you read the OP then its clear soft-claiming nationality is playing against town. The diagram... I can't believe people read into that at all. Or even the flag. Look, Up until the moment he flipped, I had 0 idea whether C_C was SU or US. I honestly think he would have posted the soviet flag even if he rolled US. Also, although the soft claim is weird (if it was indeed a soft claim), he claimed that he would have posted that flag anyways. Then he proceeded to be modestly unbad (better than several other D1 players). Is this C_C playing against his wincon? No, it's him making an error and playing sub-optimally. There was no anti-wincon motive from C_C at all. end of story. | ||
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Also looking back on it I still don't understand what sinensis was saying D1 about nationality reads | ||
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