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On March 17 2012 15:45 Blazinghand wrote: If Drazerk is town, that post will encourage him to play better. If he is scum, it puts pressure on him to be more helpful, which he does not want to do. This sort of post is the kind of thing I, and many players, use against someone who is suspicious but on whom we are unsure. By encouraging Drazerk to make a legitimate case for Veli, I caused him to make more definitive statements. Unfortunately, Drazerk is terrible and has... soft claimed... some kind of... Day alignment/role DT / Vigi or something. But yeah this should have been fairly obvious.
Didn't sound like it from the way you worded it though. "Pleading" someone to step up their game doens't seem like an efficient way of pressuring him, but well, you have your methods.
Now I guess the question is, where do you, gonzaw, stand on me? I see a lot of questions, and no statements.
After Lanaia pointed it out, I checked Resistance 2 again, and your attitude this game is different from that one, so I'll let it pass. Your aggresive play just reminded me of the play of other veterans of TL in previous games as scum, but now that I see it it's just you being an asshole, which I guess is a townie trait.
You are null to me now, and I'd want you to make more contributions instead of being that overly-aggresive (which can work in the right situations), and paint people suspicious without directly stating so, like this:
Things Gonzaw has done: 1) Asked for reads 2) Been indirect about it 3) Not stated what he thinks
So, does that make me suspicious or just "not bright"? You should probably clarify things. Also I think you missed that post with my reads, go check it.
Maybe you don't like how I post. Maybe you can go sit on a carrot. If you think this isn't how a town player plays, well, sucks to be you I guess. If you really want to be helpful and want to interact me in this game, it doesn't matter whether or not my particular attitude is to your liking. I honestly don't care.
Did I hit a nerve?
Dude, I don't care. I just want to figure out if you are town or scum, and if you are town try to make you not clog shit up to make the thread easier to read.
@Kenpachi: Until someone comes out and gives us ANY info about what GLaDOS is in this game, I doubt anybody will follow that.
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On March 17 2012 15:56 GreYMisT wrote: Alignment is included in flip.
Nevermind.
Anyways, "scum" or "3rd party", we need to kill them, so it doesn't make any difference
On March 17 2012 16:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 15:58 gonzaw wrote: So, does that make me suspicious or just "not bright"? You should probably clarify things. Also I think you missed that post with my reads, go check it.
I'm gonna go with "not bright"
See? We are getting somewhere now.
Now that this misunderstanding is settled BH, let me do that "ask for reads" routine and.....ask for your reads:
What do you think about Wiggles? And what about Midnight? You probed him with a question, but never dwelled back on it, so I guess his answer satisfied you perhaps?
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I think this Drazerk thing is distracting us too much.
I'll just ask this to Drazerk, and hopefully nothing more so we can continue trying to hunt scum:
-Can you tell us your EXACT process of thought in every action you've taken? As in, what you were thinking when you shot VE, what you were thinking when you chose to elect Velinath, what you were thinking when you decided to post that you wanted items, etc. Explain those inconsistencies found in your posts -How exactly does your day-shot work? Will you let us control your shot on D2-D3 and so on? If your role can't do that, state the exact reasons for doing so, and state EVERY restriction your role has. -If you want to live, I suggest you let town control the use of your DT item -What item did you use on Wiggles? Explain that thoroughly, and explain your thought process as well (which relates to the 1st point). For instance, why did you choose to use it on Wiggles?
If you don't give us ALL the info we want, stop cloggin up the thread, stop confusing town, and let us control your shots/items, then you should die. If you DO everything of the above, I think we could give you the useless items (like those lemons people are talking about) every once in a while, like a treat.
You do know that if you don't do everything we tell you to, we lynch you right? You will have to hope scum kill Gandalf for you, and that you behave well enough to receive the useless items.
I agree with ghost here. We should look for a scum lynch right now, and only lynch Drazerk if that lynch won't be consolidated. I'd prefer a 3rd party (possibly scum) lynch rather than a NL or a last minute vote-switch towards a townie.
On March 17 2012 22:36 Jayjay54 wrote: Right now, I am not sure if gonzaw is just bad or actively uses wrong arguements to mislead town.
I doubt I can "mislead town" just by 1 post.
When I look at certain actions, I don't try to look them as "scummy" or "unreasonable". Those are traits of a bad townie as well, and I don't want lynching bad townies.
I thought Drazerk was a bad townie at first, because of all the crazy shit he did and how much attention he got. Therefore I didn't want the discussion to be about him. Although I know what some of you vets can do when you are scum/anti-town if you want to disrupt town, but I've seen A LOT of games where townies have done the exact same thing, even fake-claiming.
On March 18 2012 01:39 Bluelightz wrote: Alright, before I go I will place my lynch vote on sinani206!
First, he has been lurking.
Second, because that sinani looks very suspicous later on, it might distract us later in the game.
##Vote: sinani206
Wtf?
So what do you think about the posts sinani already made? Also Blue, can you tell me (and link me preferably) to any game you've been scum in the past?
Blue, I find you are not posting "town lists", or doing that general trolling of yours when you are town. I don't like your one-liners where you don't say anything, or you ask completely irrelevant stuff, like this:
On March 17 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 10:49 Kenpachi wrote: hi guys. i had an awesome day outside eating Korean BBQ and playing Billiard with my friends (birthday boy)
gonna go read the thread now.
btw im Kenpachi and im Townie Its tempting to believe this because Kenpachi does this every game :O, any thoughts?
On March 18 2012 01:47 Bluelightz wrote: I agree with you JJ, picking a person to be Wheatley is mind boggling =_=, Its tempting to say that its ability will help town but the possiblity of Wheatley turning bad x[, Or we could just have a vig shoot Wheatley if Wheatley will turn bad, Any opinions on my idea?
Bluelightz, can you please explain your behaviour?
@Paperscraps: I hope you come back before the day ends, now that Dirk posted. Why were you absent previously? You live in the States, so your time zone is not that different from mine. However perhaps you were indeed sleeping (for instance), and I'd like to know if that's true or not.
@Midnight: Who else do you think is scum? What do you think about Wiggles and Kenpachi?
@zelblade, Cwave, Dirk, Grack, JayJay, ghost, Hassy, Nisani, Maverick, Sburbbles: Do you have thoughts on other players that are not Drazerk? Scum reads?
@blub, Razorflash, Adam, Lanaia, Wiggles, Velinath: I expect more contributions from you as well, I want your thoughts on the Drazerk issue (post that only once, don't let the thread get misscarried), and your thoughts on who you think could be another scum.
@sinani: Why exactly do you think Zephird is scum? @Zephird: What do you think about other players other than Drazerk//sinani?
@Blazinghand: I want your reads as well, don't go lurking on me now.
@Velinath: Do you have any scum reads by now? Any other specific thoughts?
Kitaman, CC, vaderseven and Foolishness are completely AWOL. If they are town, we need their contributions as soon as possible.
Yeah, this "list" may seem useless, but I really want all these players answering these questions. I don't want anybody lurking, and want them answering these questions and I'll keep tabs of who does and who doesn't.
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On March 18 2012 03:17 Kenpachi wrote: kk. im going to hand you my item Drazerk, in return, you must vote GLaDOS everyday you are alive (in case we dont get majority day 1).
Great, I forgot about you.
Kenpachi, can you tell us ANYTHING that doens't have to do with GLaDOS?
Let's imagine you are a townie. You can still get people to vote GLaDOS on D2, D3, etc, right?
Right now you need to establish your innocence, so people may listen to you later and vote for GLaDOS on D2, D3, etc.
So what are your other reads? Do you think anybody else is scum?
On March 18 2012 03:17 sinani206 wrote: I don't anymore
Why did you think so initially, and why don't you think so now?
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On March 18 2012 03:20 Foolishness wrote: Drazerk is certainly playing the fool Do not elect him! That would be uncool, Velinath is a good choice and from it we will rejoice Cause Drazerk will use us like tools
##Elect: Velinath
Huh? Do you seriously think we should believe your post restriction is to post in verse? There's a guy from UG that did the exact same thing in an Insane Game. He was scum, but never posted anything of value because he "had" to write his posts as poems. As you can see, that was completely bullshit.
I expect great things from you, I know how "good" you are as town. If you fail to do so I'll held you accountable, and you are not doing a good job by now.
So either cut this verse crap, or go get a thesaurus and give more reasons and thoughts behind your posts.
On March 18 2012 03:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 03:26 MidnightGladius wrote: @gonzaw:
Kenpachi's also been scattering the town's concentration with his glados voting and the nonsensical party with blazinghand. I don't like that at all, but I take it that this is what he usually does, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he doesn't actually start contributing soon, or continues to attempt to derail, then that could quickly change.
Wiggles is making decent sense to me, but I wish he'd read a bit more carefully. He's already slipped up once in terms of comprehension (thinking Drazerk had given an item instead of using it). His latest analysis is solid. That wasn't me, that was Gonzaw. Ironic. Can someone explain to me why people want to vote in Velinath as Wheatley? He was the target initially proposed by Drazerk, and that's where the votes started, but I have no idea why they continued.
People are voting Velinath because there is no evidence that he is scum, at least taking into account his behaviour.
Wiggles, what are your thoughts on other people?
Also people, what are your thoughts on me? Do some of you think I'm scum, or just "not bright", or null perhaps?
@Drazerk:
Please answer my questions.
You are trying to survive right now by blackmailing town, instead of HELPING IT which was the reason you choose to claim. You know you will die eventually if you keep this up, right? You are playing against your win con (if you are in fact what you say you are). *sigh* You may as well be scum though.
Also, I find it weird that you could even CLAIM your role. Your role is similar to Batman's/Catwoman's one from AC, in the way that you "leave" the game after you kill a specific role. Those roles couldn't claim they were Bat/CW, so why can you?
Either way, I want discussions on other people as well (although this Day 1 isn't shaping up badly)
On March 18 2012 03:33 Jayjay54 wrote:This already contradicts itself. You say don't want discussion on Drazerk and then go on and make a huge paragraph with questions generating discussions. Your "this is why Drazerk is town" post was just so naive. Think a little. Finally you say, you'd rather lynch third or scum than town. Well guess what, Drazerk indicated quite clearly he is not town.
Other than that you just ask questions to EVERYONE. It's freaking day 1. You imagine everybody already has like 3 scum reads?
Can you fucking stop this "lol you are naive" "lol you are so bad" crap? You are just discrediting me, even though you don't think I'm scum.
No, I didn't want to "generate discussion", I just wanted: -Drazerk to answer those questions (just as I wanted every other player to answer the other questions) -People to just post their opinion on Drazerk, and nothing else.
I just don't want 3 or more pages wasted on spamming the thread about him like before. Let him answer the questions, and if he doesn't do it acceptable we kill him eventually.
I said why I asked EVERYONE those questions, I'm keeping tabs on who answers them and who doens't, so I keep tabs on who is lurking/inactive or not, and we get more info on the players that do indeed answer.
Tell me Jay, what are your thoughts on the remaining players? You are indeed tunneling Drazerk (with a good justification though), but you are not talking about other things.
This is Day 1, we need information from other people as well, and we need to prod them into posting them. Don't just say "Okay, Drazerk is scum, lynch him" and waste 24 hours doing nothing.
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On March 18 2012 03:55 Foolishness wrote: Though it may be strange how this appears, I think so far I have been quite clear. I speak my thoughts, don't be such a snot. I assure you that you have nothing to fear.
That doesn't mean you give any valid reasoning behind your "thoughts". You may "speak your thoughts"; but you won't make cases, you won't make analysis, etc.
Your only reason for voting Dirk was "He tries to blend in", nothing else. I can see what would make Dirk suspicious though, but you won't do shit by posting like you are. It also makes it easier for you to hide if you are scum.
I want you to give more reasoning behind your posts, not just "speak your thoughts".
Also another thing is that I get the feeling your post restriction is bullshit (I think the mods even acknowledged that by giving you points, I doubt they will give someone points for just following their post restriction, since the alternative is a modkill).
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On March 18 2012 04:19 Grackaroni wrote: You need to cut back on your posts Gonzaw. Asking the entire town by name for reads isn't helping anyone, focus on making your own reads. Foolishness has been clear and I think his posting is pretty awesome despite the fact that it's probably not his post restriction. I think you're town and you've done a good job of showing it but I don't want to read through some of your spammy posts.
At the moment I only have 2 pages of filter, and I don't think my walls of text could be considered "spam"; but well, I had this problem on UG as well
Either way, I already stated the reasons why I asked everybody said questions, so I will repeat it only once more:
I want to ask EVERYBODY questions so they are obligated to answer them. This means they are obligated to be active and contribute, and if they don't they will be lurking and I will take note of that for the future (I am indeed taking notes of who answers my questions and who doesn't). I don't want to have 30 different discussions, I just want them to post their thoughts, and nothing else, just so I can mark them off in my notes. I won't let a lone lurker get through the game undetected, nuh huh.
However, I do want to discuss Bluelightz's behaviour, so I'm waiting for his response more than everybody else's. Waiting for Dirk's thoughts is not bad either
I think my reads are pretty known by now. The people I'm pressuring the most are the ones I'm more suspicious about, but nothing definite, which is why I want more discussions and people posting more thoughts. I don't want discussion to just die by people voting Drazerk.
So Grack/Wiggles, if you want to keep discussion going, then could you give us more reads/thoughts? Or at least ask me specific questions and the like (at least so I can do something )
Also, I don't like spam, and I don't like spamming. I'm trying to post all my thoughts, but I'm trying to keep them all in 1 post, and not put one-liners that only make the thread bigger. If you guys think I'm spamming, then I'll try to cut it out, but for now I don't think I'm doing that bad in that department
On March 18 2012 04:30 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Also, I forgot I wanted to write in that post, but it might not be the best idea to lynch Drazerk anymore after his claim. Instead, some townie with KP should send in his night action as soon as the night post goes up to kill Drazerk, due to the way items work. I don't know if action resolution is set in stone, or based on who sent in the kill first, so we should try to be better safe than sorry, and not let scum get that item. Suicide lynching Draz isn't very good, because the third parties won't vote for him, cell members will try to avoid it, and mafia wouldn't put more than a couple people on him. That means we would end up lynching with *just* reaching majority, and chances are most of the people will be town and we'll lose members without taking out extra scum. So, not exactly worth the 2 for 1 trade.
Thoughts?
There's the chance Drazerk is bullshiting about that "Anger core" claim of his.
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On March 18 2012 04:33 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Who do you want to elect? If we find someone who's probably town, I have no problem dragging them kicking and screaming into the Wheatley spot. Chances are pretty high that some of the people asking for it are scum who want powers, so we should be looking at them closely after today.
Foolishness, why do you want to vote in Velinath?
*cough* EHHEHMM *cough*
Right, I'm still running for the Wheatley spot you know.
@Foolishness: What do you think about Kenpachi's fixation with GLaDOS? Have you ever seen him fixated like that in a previous game with him?
@Wiggles: So, what are your other thoughts? You stated your thoughts on Drazerk, you stated your thoughts on Velinath and me. What about other players? Anybody else caught your attention?
What do you guys (Wiggles+Foolishness) think about Blazinghand? Specially with his aggresiveness and apparently disappearance (albeit it might be just a time-zone thing) from the thread?
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On March 18 2012 05:21 Zephirdd wrote:Also, I hate how gonzaw is only asking questions to everyone
Ehm, you are free to ask me questions yourself.
I'm just trying to gather information and get all people involved in the discussions. If you want all my reads (at least the ones I haven't stated so) then ask away.
Also, I think it's been pretty apparent that asking questions is not the only thing I've done, so people try not to oversimplify things.
On March 18 2012 06:00 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 05:43 Drazerk wrote:On March 18 2012 03:17 Kenpachi wrote: kk. im going to hand you my item Drazerk, in return, you must vote GLaDOS everyday you are alive (in case we dont get majority day 1). Still waiting on this item... gave it to you.
Please respond to my previous post.
If someone gives an item to someone else, does the 2nd person get notified of whom gave him the item?
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Huh, this is what I exactly think about the Wheatley role (assuming a townie gets it): 1)It will have at least 1 positive ability (if it doesn't then fuck me) 2)It may change the win condition of the townie that gets it after a while, without letting him know 3)It may change the win condition of the townie that gets it after a while, letting him know of it by the PM of the role
I doubt (2) will happen, since I've never seen it happen and it would be to unbalanced and frankly it would be a dick move from the hosts. If (3) happens, then that player should: -Get lynched/vigged right before the "transformation" occurs -Use his positive ability from (1) before dying.
That way, that player will die as a townie and won't have his win condition changed, but will still use his ability for the good of town.
I'd volunteer for that, at least if I can get some scum down with me in the process >_>
However, since I doubt (2) would happen, I don't think Wheatley just should be policy lynched out of nowhere if he tells the thread that he wasn't informed his win condition would change.
Another thing is that this role could be gotten by scum. How will that role affect them if (2) or (3) happen? They will turn into townies or 3rd party? What about 3rd party? Will they turn into scum as well perhaps? That doesn't make sense, so I doubt a role where both scum, 3rd party and town could be elected into will revolve around changing alignments (also I've never seen that happen before, like EVER).
I'd say we don't concern ourselves about it, unless the player that was elected Wheatley tells us otherwise from his role PM (situation #3).
Also, take into account that Wheatley "turned good" at the end of the game...
...albeit he was already in space when that happen, but still counts.
On March 18 2012 07:31 Drazerk wrote: ##Vote: GLaDOS
Well I think I can now say that because of what item he gave me kenpachi is 100% town and killing glados is the best action the town can do today.
Spill it out then. What makes him 100% confirmed town?
Also, why do you even care about town anymore? You haven't answered any of our questions nor tried to lend your powers to us, so clearly you don't care.
Do you even know you are about to get lynched? Do you know that if you are indeed 3rd party you will LOSE? Why don't you even acknowledge that, and more importantly STOP it altogether? You are giving me more and more reasons for thinking you are actually scum.
I'd have to admit that killing GLaDOS doesn't seem bad from a lore point of view, but Kenpachi's actions don't seem to be in the best interest of town (if he's indeed town he just seems powerhungry and uninterested in the actual game), nor doesn't Drazerk's approval of it, and there's the possibility something fucked up happening like what phagga just said.
Kenpachi, until you PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE to us we won't do shit. And the more you avoid this Kenpachi, the more I think you don't care about this game, and the more I'd like a vig to just shoot you.
PRE-EDIT: Well, got late to the party before posting this, but might as well leave it.
Whatever, Drazerk may be lying to get Kenpachi to claim, or may tell the truth to get scum to know his role.
*sigh* Whatever, untill Kenpachi claims Chell and there is no cc, or until he establishes his innocence by contributing to town, I won't vote GLaDOS
On March 18 2012 07:46 Blazinghand wrote: My god, why are you so BM? Stfu for a moment and listen to my explanation. Your question is legitimate, though, so I'll address it. We know there are other Sleeper agents in this game. It's possible that this unnecessary, out-of-character EBWOP was an attempt by zelblade to communicate his identity to the other cell agents?
Radfield lynch again much? I won't let you nor anyone choose to follow this, just no....
Also you have to unvote C_C before voting zelblade.
BH, why did you go to zelblade like this? And don't give me the "I'm just trying to pressure him" crap because you know this "pressure" of yours won't go anywhere because it only dwells around an EBWOP and a typo.
Why would you choose to follow this kind of reasoning against zelblade, instead of trying to find scum using other methods by analysing their posts and motivations?
Also I'm leaving in a couple minutes, maybe an hour, just in case.
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Okay people, assume zelblade IS indeed Sleeper Agent and is communicating with his buddies..
....which scum in their right mind would take a "correction of a typo" as a tell that he found his scumbuddy? No one!
Even if he's Sleeper Agent, his buddies would most likely think he's town or null to them. They find each other via the encrypted messages they send each other, and via the behaviour in the thread, not by EBWOPS and typos.
Hell, maybe the SA would have killed their scumbuddy zelblade tonight if you hadn't mentioned that.
But really, if zelblade did in fact do that as SA it was a pretty stupid move from his part. Even if he is a SA (this doesn't exonerate him, he hasn't contributed much and I want him to answer my questions as well) I doubt he did that on purpose to communicate with his scumbuddies..
..I can't believe I really have to explain this.
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On March 18 2012 08:30 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 08:25 gonzaw wrote: ....which scum in their right mind would take a "correction of a typo" as a tell that he found his scumbuddy? No one!
God, it's even in a post that's ABOUT SLEEPER CELL DUDES FINDING EACH OTHER. Are you even thinking here? His post is ABOUT SLEEPER CELL DUDES FINDING EACH OTHER. And he edited and BOLDFACED the word "link" in that sentence... like if you've been hearing some "whooshing" sounds that's the sound of my arguments going over your head.
Uhhm, do you seriously believe zelblade tried to communicate with his buddies there? Do you even think zelblade could come up with such a plan in the first place?
On March 18 2012 08:28 Blazinghand wrote:
Only the cell leader sends messages... this is sleeper cell I style, not Sleeper Cell II style.
The agents themselves can only recieve messages and try to encode things to eachother here in the thread.
So? They still send messages to each other, I don't see what's your point there (other than discrediting me, something some players here have taken into a liking).
On March 18 2012 10:06 Bluelightz wrote: From who ever asked this(sorry I forgot) : Bluelightz, can you please explain your behaviour?
Which behaviour? If you say why I pressed sinani after I was going to oppose policies is because that I didnt have a more worthy Lynch target at the time.
Right now, I am fine with a sinani or Dirk Hardpec lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=27#531
Please read the thread.
People, the Dirk wagon is forming almost as easily as the Drazerk one. I haven't found A SINGLE player that opposed his lynch, like...not a single one. He may not have a lot of votes yet, but a lot of other people put their interest in getting him lynched as the "leader" of the scummy lurkers. As in, everybody says "We should lynch a lurker", and then immediately point out Dirk instead of others.
That gives me bad vibes from this situation (i.e bandwagon on a townie).
On March 18 2012 13:56 RayzorFlash wrote: Just got home, St. Patricks Day party!!! (Not drunk, no worries... Don't drink... lol)
1.I feel like Foolishness and blzinghand are both town, and it seems like the best options for lynching right now are Dirk and Draz. Dirk only has one post so far though, and I'd like to see some more from him before I decide to drop the hammer....
2. I believed in Draz before, but I'm not so sure after the actions today. I think if we don't have a better target we should definitely lynch him since even if we believe his claim to be entirely accurate, he's still going to be hurting town, trying to get Gandalf (who is likely town) and trying to get items by killing people/stopping people from using items themselves.
Also, imagine for one second if we had all 5 people send him items that he wanted, but Gandalf didn't die. What would stop scum from just killing him tonight and taking all those 5 items?? Mafia already now knows that Draz has a Portal Gun... If someone from Mafia needs it, they'll just kill him and we just gave it to them for free... Everyone else PLEASE think closely before giving items to Draz...
To summarize, I think Draz's role can only hurt town in the long run because he a) will want Gandalf (town) dead and b) he just made himself a target for mafia, and wants town to help him become an even juicier target... Better to lynch him and have the items he has stay circulating within town (mostly, except for the scum that votes for his lynch)
--------------------------------------------
3.Now, on to Wheatley. Someone else brought up that Wheatley is likely to have his win condition change mid-way. I agree with that and I think we need to have a policy to kill Wheatley at some point in the game. Maybe by Day 4/Night 4. Even if Wheatley agrees to total transparency, when his win condition changes he will have to continue to play to win, even if it involves town losing. Thus, I agree that we need to give Wheatley to someone who will remain transparent, but isn't that experienced of a player to be super dangerous, and who we won't miss when we eventually kill him. Also someone who's town.
I WANT to elect the two people I have the best town-read on (Foolishness and blzinghand) but they're both really strong and I think they'd be able to absolutely demolish town if they become third-party/mafia/their win condition changed...
Sooo, yeah, I'm sticking with keeping my vote on Velinath...
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Other stuffs: - Kenpachi: I'll vote for GlaDOS if you give me your top three town and scum reads, with GOOD reasoning, not "because I said so" - Adam4167: You were really solid in AC... Who are your top town and scum reads so far??
1. Apparently "town consensus" right now is to think Foolishness and Blazinghand are town (and have 2nd one get a lot of votes for election). It's also "town consensus" for the lynch to be either Dirk or Drazerk. I find you following this trend without any other justification very weird (i.e suspicious), even more with other players that did so as well (but meh, will get to them later when I get some sleep).
2. Nothing new said here, except for the "Mafia can kill him for his items". First, why is it bad for mafia to waste their shot on a 3rd party? Second, how can you say "No townie should give their items to Drazerk" and use it to justify "Drazerk should be lynched so mafia have no items when they kill him"? If no townie gives items to Drazerk, then he has no more items and is not a "juicy target". What does that have to do with his lynch? Why is that a reason for lynching him? It's something completely unrelated to his aligment and actions, you should want him lynched to "be safe". Also, wouldn't you think perhaps that maybe a vig could hit him as well, and he (which would be town) would get all those items and (ideally) help town with them?
3. I've said this before but apparently everybody loves to ignore me: THE WHEATLEY ROLE IS NOT GUARANTEED TO CHANGE HIS ALIGNMENT MID-GAME!!
And seriously, there's almost absolutely NO reason to assume he will. No other previous game in the history of Mafia had a role like that (correct me if I'm wrong though). And this is only based on speculation about the Portal 2 game and it's story. Really people, this should have been ignored instantly, it should not have made people want to enforce a POLICY LYNCH on this elected role, that doesn't make sense.
Oh yeah Razor, I don't like this post at all. Blatant sheeping on "town consensus" on points 1 and 3; and some pretty bad reasons for point 2.
##Vote: RayzorFlash
(I guess EVERYBODY will bandwagon on Rayzor right now because he made only 2 posts, right?)
P.S: People, please stop this useless speculation about how the Wheatley role will have his aligment changed mid-game; and about how zelblade is using an EBWOP and a typo fix to communicate with his Sleeper Agent buddies. Please people, I expect some of you to realize how bullshit that is.
PRE-EDIT:
THANK YOU JAYJAY.
Finally someone making sense in this game. Sorry for shitting you up earlier, keep up the good work.
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On March 18 2012 20:25 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 19:53 gonzaw wrote: People, the Dirk wagon is forming almost as easily as the Drazerk one. I haven't found A SINGLE player that opposed his lynch, like...not a single one. He may not have a lot of votes yet, but a lot of other people put their interest in getting him lynched as the "leader" of the scummy lurkers. As in, everybody says "We should lynch a lurker", and then immediately point out Dirk instead of others.
Why would you expect someone to oppose this lynch? With all of the different factions at work in this game, he may have no one coming to his aid (3rd party), his teammates may not know they're supposed to be aiding him (sleeper agent) and his team may just be abandoning him for being afk/lurking (mafia). When I read Dirk's post, I thought "Gee, he said a lot of words to say so little", and then on the next page, I see Foolishness making a similar argument. That does two things for me: a) tells me I'm probably on the right track and b) tells me that Foolishness is probably town, since I am town. I agree with you on RayzorFlash, but I question what is the point of this line: "(I guess EVERYBODY will bandwagon on Rayzor right now because he made only 2 posts, right?)" You've made a case against him. Its looks solid enough. Then you try to scare everyone away from agreeing with you by labelling anyone that votes Rayzorflash as a bandwagoner. Did you not want this case to pick up steam? Why make it then? I am genuinely confused as to what you are trying to accomplish.
Sarcasm. It was about how everybody would now instantly agree with me and vote for him without any other reasoning.
I guess you make a good point about the Sleeper Agents though, although I thought the mafia from another faction (if there is one) would oppose his lynch.
On March 18 2012 23:47 Bluelightz wrote: Here it is I think that
Dirk - Fluffy fluff fluff, lurking hardcore Sinani - Lurking Drazerk - I'm fairly sure the Balrog is an anti town role, because that Shadow & Flames doesnt sound like a town kill flavor.
are anti-town roles, Can't be sure if 3rd party/Scum on either of em.
I would be fine for lynching any of the above.
Hey you, don't ignore me, respond to my post. I'm getting fed up with this, why would you not respond to someone pressuring you?
@Dirk: If you are town, I guess you know not many people like you here, right? If you are town, you don't want to get lynched, right? If you are scum, you know everybody will keep their eye on you so you can't lurk the game away either. Either way, the best course of action for you is to post some reads and thoughts, if not you will most likely be heading towards a certain death. Don't just comment on the Drazerk thing, tell us who other player you think is scum. If you don't think anyone else is scum, then at least tell us who your leading suspicions are, and GIVE SUFFICIENT REASONING behind them.
Anyways, *sigh* I 95% agree with Jayjay here.
Drazerk, you had your chance to help town and you screwed it, and you made yourself look more like scum trying to confuse town (kind of like Kurumi on JubJub mafia) by insane claims rather than 3rd party thinking straight trying to fulfill his win-con.
Also, obviously the anger core is indeed bullshit (at least the description you make from it), but nice try though
Anyways, I wanted more discussions taking place, but no other discussion is really being made; so I guess I'll vote Drazerk to secure the lynch (inb4 I'm scum bandwagoning at the last minute herp derp zerp) However, we still have scum to catch people, so I'd like for all the players I mentioned before to post their thoughts and scum reads, and for the people I pressured to respond.
On March 19 2012 01:34 Drazerk wrote: Veli is dragon
So imagine that was the case..
...Velinath agreed to be completely transparent with the Wheatley ability, so obviously if it's found that he wasn't he will be instantly killed. That means that he'll have to give town info and play to help us, and even if that was the case we could even agree to a deal with him (to perhaps give him items so he can kill scum, or whatever his role does).
He has done 100x things to help town than you.
...oh, and also I don't buy anything you say.
Also people, if Foolishness doesn't REALLY step up his game in next days, I wouldn't oppose killing him because I know that's not something he would do as town; considering his rhyming thing is mostly bullshit, and made to confuse town or just have fun/get Science points, but it's not made to help us catch scum.
Another thing, the election is very close, and I'd prefer Velinath getting the Wheatley role rather than Blazinghand.
I don't have much to think BH is scum rather than "not bright" townie ( ), but I still think Velinath is town and could make better decisions if he communicates everything about his Wheatley role with town.
So I guess....thanks for all the people that voted for me...?
PRE-EDIT:
On March 19 2012 02:41 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 02:38 Grackaroni wrote:[/B did you give him your anger core as well? Yup
Okay then, you are most certainly not 3rd party because you threw your only chance for survival down the drain, and should mostly be banned for playing against your win-con and siding with another faction. So, either you get banned and learn how to play properly later, or you are scum, so I guess that's a win-win
You do know that trying to appear to contribute, and trying to lead town is 100x times easier in a game filled with noobs and little players? If you are scum but not "strong", "fearless", "vet", etc (like some of the regulars), and you are scum, it won't be easy to do the same things you did in Newbie games in this one.
@Rayzor: Respond to my post...NOW.
On March 19 2012 03:11 willz22912 wrote: Oh, this is for gonzaw whenever he gets around to reading this. Please stop spamming the thread with multiple questions to multiple people with little to no benefit to town from their responses. I get that you're trying to deny lurking, but it's fairly obvious to see just by checking people's filters and having very active town (which we already have in plenty) I'm coming in as a replacement and I kept myself up to date on this thread but it was really annoying reading through all your shit to see if any of it was actually useful (not all of it was, I'd say maybe 30% to be generous)
You're running the risk of being almost detrimental to town by burying all your decent points in too long posts, as well as lowering your credibility since people will start to dislike you because of this posting behavior. There is also the alternate case that you are scum trying to hide by over posting and defending yourself when under suspicion by pointing to your "active" behavior.
I have 2 pages of filter; if you can't find the "decent points" it's your own fault. I'm making all the effort I can to make my points clear and easy to read, I'm not Blazinghand from Purgatory Mafia, so please stop this crap
@Kita and C_C: If you were inactive until 5 hours before D1 ended, you have A LOT to compensate I want you to read filters, read the thread and give us more thoughts and reasoning behind them. Pick a player you think is scum and analyse him, make a list of reads on every player, whatever you may like, but you guys have given us less information than anybody else (maybe except Cwave >_> ) so you need to step up
##Unvote: RayzorFlash ##Vote: Drazerk
##Unelect: gonzaw ##Elect: Velinath
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On March 19 2012 05:12 RayzorFlash wrote: I guess I should also respond to Gonzaw's post at me...
I just posted my reads. I guess if you want reasons for why I did so, so here they are...
Foolishness spoke sensibly. I agree with a lot of the stuff he's said so far, i.e.: - Draz is very anti-town and needs to die soon - Dirk is lurking and posting fluff, seems scummy - People, including me, are wasting time discussing Portal - The same few active people are posting and causing chaos, while the lurkers get to lurk
My town read on BlazingHand is based on the one/two sensible posts he made in the middle, while the rest of the time he was being... well... strange, lets just stick with strange. I had a null read on him, but he did good actual analysis/scumhunting (though I don't agree with lynching Zelblade right now, I'm definitely keeping a closer eye on him as a result), which has so far been pretty rare in this game.
I have town-reads on them both, just like I have a town-read on Jayjay now. I don't care if its sheeping the town consensus or not, I feel its just common sense :S...
Ehm, so what do you think about Foolishness rhymes? Do you think they are a legit post restriction or bullshit? If you think the former, then what do you think about mods granting Foolishness Science points for doing the rhymes? Why would a mod grant someone "gratification points" just for following their post restriction? If you think the latter, then how do you think him rhyming helps town at all?
So, if you think Foolishness is speaking sensibly, who do you think is speaking sensibly other than him?
On this point, I thought that if Draz didn't get the items he wanted willfully, then he'll start killing/being even more anti-town to get to his win condition. I'd have no problem with a vigi hitting him either. I basically wanted him lynched/dead/something, but at the hands of town/mostly town and not mafia, ideally before he causes even more chaos than he already had.
The point is...that's not a "reason" to get him lynched per se, it's only a "perk" of him getting lynched.
Think of it this way: If Draz was town, and had items, then scum could have still killed him at night to get his items. Therefore that is not a reason to get someone lynched (since he would be town).
I guess I won't ask you for ALL the reasons for lynching Draz though, since they are clearly apparent. However, I didn't like that Dirk "bandwagon read" you posted.
Can you state reads on other people that weren't exhaustively mentioned by now?
For instance, what do you think about Lanaia and Zephird?
Yeah, I won't talk about this anymore since I think the Wheatley talk distracted us from actually hunting scum, except just that we should keep a close CLOSE eye on whoever gets elected Wheatley (likely to be Velinath)
You wanted to policy kill Wheatley, that's not just "keeping a close eye on him".
Wait wait what? You think I'm scummy, but you don't want people to wagon/actually lynch me?? Are you just setting up for the followup tomorrow or something? Or are you trying to make cases on people so not enough people vote for the majority on Draz?? This line just doesn't make sense and invalidates your post for me. I can't think of ANY reason that a town player would say that :S
I guess you were writting your post before I made mine before (ours are just 2 minutes apart), so its not our fault for missing my previous post. So I suggest reading 1 post up from yours if you want that answer.
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On March 19 2012 05:55 Drazerk wrote: Oh cool I have majority never mind
I am a village idiot with a day vig shot
Cheers for playing
Cool story bro.
Even if that's the case we should still kill you so mafia can't join-win with you in LYLO
On March 19 2012 06:00 kitaman27 wrote: ##Elect: gonzaw
You are a little late there
Also, why do you want to elect me? What do you think about me?
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On March 19 2012 06:08 Drazerk wrote: Not quite sure if you know what a village idiot is...
Huh? If you talk about the Village Idiot role then yeah, I do.
On March 19 2012 06:09 RayzorFlash wrote:
I really don't know what to think about the rhymes except that its AWESOME, lol... I might actually be inclined to buy that Foolishness is using a fakeclaim or something, and the fact that he chose to use it resulted in him getting gratification points. I don't think its a legit post restriction, no.
So, what would you think/do if Foolishness kept doing his rhymes until late game, knowing it's mostly not legit?
I think Jayjay, you, and Foolishness are speaking the most sense. I am also leaning town on Grackaroni and Lanaia was seeming town to me before she stopped posting as much.
What exactly made you think Grack and Lanaia were town? Any specific thing about their posts?
The Dirk read definitely wasn't a very strong read, thats why I didn't vote for him... In terms of other scum reads I think a lot of the lurkers really need to step up and post. I think that ghost_403 specifically has been actively lurking, posting fluff and repeating what other people have already said. A lot of the passive lurkers, cheese, cwave, sinani, nisani, i don't really have a good enough read on yet, and they need to post more, a lot more. Otherwise i'd be fine with vigging them tonight to reduce the lurking being done
Also, can you specify what makes you suspicious of ghost as well? Specific quotes, or at least pointing out specific behaviour/motivation from said posts, etc
I dunno man, I don't buy that sarcasm thing... (/sarcasm) Or is it...
lol
On March 19 2012 06:15 kitaman27 wrote: Similar mindframe with myself? Or it was completely random.
What?
Explain that please. Was it random or not? If not, explain how I have a similar "mindframe" with you.
Also kita, I want more contributions from you.
What do you think about Foolishness, his actions and his rhymes and motivation behind them?
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On March 19 2012 06:36 phagga wrote:
Lol, you might have only 2 pages of filter, but each of your post is at least 3 times more than the average post size in this thread. And many are formatted horribly. Really, it's a pain in the ass to read your posts, and I've already skipped several for the time being.
Huh? *sigh*
I won't discuss this with you if that's what you think. I hope other players think otherwise.
I would advise you not to "skip" any of my posts. What if I'm scum? Will you just let me off the hook as easily as that?
phagga, you've been keeping your attention to a small pool of players, and a pool of players everybody else has kept their attention on as well. So what do you think about the other players? What do you think about Rayzor, Lanaia, Zephird, Midnight, etc, etc ,etc?
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Ehm, I'll just say I eagerly await the responses from these people:
Bluelightz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=27#531 Kenpachi: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=27#537 Sinani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=27#537 Willz, kitaman, C_C: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=43#845 (this applies to willz too, since he subbed later in the day) Wiggles: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120¤tpage=29#572
I asked for someone to make a read on him (Wiggles), anybody. I don't like this recessive position he's taken in town. Not only he has few posts, but I haven't seen him contribute that much, at least not from what I expect from him.
I want people to post their opinion on Lanaia and Zephird as well.
@Zephird: Will you keep pushing your case on Paperscraps? I didn't see you push it that hard, and basicly swept it aside. Also, your thoughts on Lanaia and Wiggles are welcome.
@Lanaia: It seems to me you are just trying to blend in, I haven't seen you contribute that much, and the only relevant reads you've stated where you thought BH was town and Drazerk scum.
@Paperscraps: How do you respond to Zephird's case against you?
(also, I said I keep tabs on who answers my questions and who doesn't, so it's not "useless" since I'll make them answer those questions to me. Also it's hard to keep everybody contributing in a large game like this, and I don't want anybody flying under the radar and unnoticed, so if people keep doing that and not posting their thoughts, I'll keep asking questions. If you don't like this, then deal with it.)
PRE-EDIT: Derp, night already started.
*sigh* Should Drazerk be banned for playing against his win-con and trying to let another faction win when he knew he would die? At least assuming he told the truth about the Cell Leader thing.
PRE-EDIT2:
Velinath, if you invent something, will it be stated in the Day Post?
If so, then I think at least tonight, you should give an item to someone; post right before the deadline who you gave it too, and have him confirm it next day. If both of your claims are the same as the one from the Day Post, it will confirm your role as inventor.
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On March 19 2012 08:21 Velinath wrote: gonzaw, items from me will be handled normally. I can give an item to someone and have them confirm that they received it.
Like I said, it's not exactly like inventor. I guess I could elaborate a bit more than I did - I'm limited in what I can give out to a predefined list of items.
What is said list of items?
Also, what's that "Desestabilization Level 5" that was said in Drazerk's Role PM?
@Grack: I don't think anybody will give you any lemons until you explain exactly what they are for and why you need them. Just like nobody will vote for GLaDOS just because Kenpachi said so.
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On March 19 2012 08:29 Kenpachi wrote: gonzaw i said i dont understand my role's context. I cant tell you anything about GLaDOS except that my role targets her.
Eh? The point of my questions was about how you should STOP talking about GLaDOS and contribute more. And I asked you for your reads.
On March 19 2012 08:30 Kenpachi wrote: INSTEAD OF ASKING QUESTIONS, WHY DONT YOU TRY TO FIND THE ANSWERS YOURSELF see filter
your questions are all derp.
I can't "find answers" to the "What does player X think of player Y?" question if they never state their reads.
On March 19 2012 08:33 Velinath wrote: I can get more than one of the same item, as far as I can tell. Lemons are not among those items though.
That's not enough, give us more information. What is the exact list of items you can invent?
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