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TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia
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gumshoe
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hello world | ||
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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It made perfect sense that storm was exclusive, it was a hard game, very little info was available and players had to rely heavily on experience and analysis. Meanwhile this game is a perfect opportunity for 4 or so semi newbiesh players(players with 3 games under their belt or so) to get acquainted with the style of some of the better players on the forum. | ||
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gumshoe
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On March 09 2012 01:58 Liquid`Sheth wrote: /in damnit how am i supposed to compete with that? Forget I ever made a half backed stand T_T /out(not that I was ever in) | ||
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gumshoe
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On March 08 2012 21:49 gumshoe wrote: I get what sylogism is saying about exclusivity, you cant have players who've never competed before on the forms play, but this set up has becoming more and more standard, you've dropped the traitor and dropped the no alignment flips, so there should be no inherent reason that a few newbie players cant join in. It made perfect sense that storm was exclusive, it was a hard game, very little info was available and players had to rely heavily on experience and analysis. Meanwhile this game is a perfect opportunity for 4 or so semi newbiesh players(players with 3 games under their belt or so) to get acquainted with the style of some of the better players on the forum. So was this just one of those times were I'm absolutely wrong for some obvious reason? | ||
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gumshoe
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What the hell, 20 spots plenty of room | ||
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gumshoe
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I get the sense that your really good at phoenix right esque games. | ||
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gumshoe
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Anyways I'm Gumshoe I've played two games before both as town. Couple things, lynching preference day 1. Lurkers are my preference ) : I'm fresh off a game where once a day posters pretty much sealed our fate so unless a solid case is present(which isn't unlikely) thats where my votes going. 2: Are we having a vote deadline? A ten hour one could be useful for organization. Also why scwhorz? | ||
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gumshoe
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On March 11 2012 13:21 Mattchew wrote: Gumshoe you gonna care this game? This is my first real game, I am going to give it my all and even if things get rough I'll fight to the bitter end. You can count on me this time(if you please). I hope I can do the same for you  | ||
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On March 11 2012 13:19 Jitsu wrote: That meme is some good stuff. I love you Jackal. So, let's get this ball rolling, then. I'm not sure I want to comment on Lurkers or anything yet. Looking at the player list, I think everyone will have a decently good job of staying active enough to contribute to a pro-town atmosphere. No one really stands out to me as a lurking player, so enough of that. Also, this is going to be pretty much a direct rip from my first post in Storm. It's something that I think should set the mood for town discussion. I hate liars, unless there is a clear and logical reason to do so (blue prolonging his anonymity, ect.), anyone lying should (and will) be 100% held accountable for the actions they decided to run with. Does anyone in anyway disagree with this, and if so, why? I will hold myself to the same standard, and anyone who is found blatantly lying, crossing stories, anything of that sort is going to be pushed by me, and i'd like to assume that the majority of the town players can agree with me on that. Nope, I dont, at the same time though I dont think we have to be completely transparent but elaborate thread traps are better served for pms if at all. | ||
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On March 11 2012 13:19 Jitsu wrote: That meme is some good stuff. I love you Jackal. So, let's get this ball rolling, then. I'm not sure I want to comment on Lurkers or anything yet. Looking at the player list, I think everyone will have a decently good job of staying active enough to contribute to a pro-town atmosphere. No one really stands out to me as a lurking player, so enough of that. Also, this is going to be pretty much a direct rip from my first post in Storm. It's something that I think should set the mood for town discussion. I hate liars, unless there is a clear and logical reason to do so (blue prolonging his anonymity, ect.), anyone lying should (and will) be 100% held accountable for the actions they decided to run with. Does anyone in anyway disagree with this, and if so, why? I will hold myself to the same standard, and anyone who is found blatantly lying, crossing stories, anything of that sort is going to be pushed by me, and i'd like to assume that the majority of the town players can agree with me on that. Oh which actually begs the question, what about lying in pms? Its going to be alot of he said she said, should would hold private conversations to the same standard? | ||
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On March 11 2012 14:05 Mattchew wrote: i will not be using the pm function until atleast day 2 or 3 when I have a better feel for everyone. I will be announcing to the thread who I decide to PM with when I do, and if someone adds me I will announce that as well. I think we should all partake in this practice I dont think we should have to announce who were pming, but I do think we should all say when we have at least two people who have decided to pm us. Why? Because I dont think everyone should be pming the one guy who we all think is a great townie, everyone should have 4 contacts ideally, that way the spread of information is even and we have a better chance to gain more information as opposed to having everyone pming one guy. Of course that is optional and I wont suggest that you announce who has decided to pm you, just tell us when you have two contacts so we can keep the spread of pm lines even. | ||
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On March 11 2012 14:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't think that's necessary. It will be much more telling to see how PM lines form when left unattended by the thread. People should use their own judgment and not the wisdom of the "town". As far as being open with who you select, I can't see how that would be anything but pro-town. I'm saying it should be an option to privately open a pm, I might not want to announce the people I trust, i feel we shouldn't be considered automatically scummy because we dont announce who we pm, there are reasons to privately open a pm like say if your convinced the person on the other end is a blue and you want to talk to them about thier findings but you dont want to broadcast them to scum. Further more I wasnt asking we rely on the wisdom of town, I simply wanted people to announce when they've been contacted by two people and then we could know if it would be right to have that person posses a higher number of contacts than most. | ||
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On March 11 2012 14:14 Mattchew wrote: No i just meant i wont be picking until day 2 or 3. I will respond and talk to anyone that picks me whenever. no. more transparency and more town information the better. Say who you are sharing PM's with How bout I announce one of my pms Fine, I'll comply. | ||
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On March 11 2012 15:03 jaybrundage wrote: i think annoucing pms is fine. I think that more information only helps the town. Also i think that we should be on top of lurkers to post content. We cant let people slide by with low post counts. Imma encourage people to post Blazinghand style POST YOU I LYNCH YOU And comon no one wants to kill Rg with meh XD Cause he hasnt talked yet ) : Oh and caller does my meta lynch get postponed till day 2 if a better option comes up? | ||
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Few things though, if you do tell town who your pming do not lie about that person, I am with jitsu for the lying rule because the more honest as opposed to faulty info out there the easier it is to conduct analysis(although scum will of course lie and against a back drop of honest townies it becomes far more obvious that they are scum). Secondly whereas lying is bad withholding information/keeping town/mafia on a need to know basis is a staple of mafia, how is withholding your contacts any different from withholding your suspicions until your case is complete? So if you pm someone without telling town and that guy broadcasts that you did so, I do not think that should take target priority(unless theres REALLY nothing better around) come lynch time. Now another topic, early on I mentioned lynching lurkers, that is not going to be an issue seeing as everyone seems pretty active. Yet how about the other topic I brought up? What of a preliminary vote deadline? It'll help avoid mass vote switches and help keep town organized, any nays? Any suggestions when a deadline would be ideal? | ||
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gumshoe
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On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote: What do you think it means? Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable. If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him. If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't. Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town? I think a player who lies should be placed under extreme suspicion, but I do not think we should pigeon hole ourselves by saying we have to lynch him, you basically give mafia a get out of jail free card, if they can prove a townie is lying they can ensure his death. Lying should be a component of a case, not a case on its own. it should also serve as very solid grounds to discredit a player, which in some circumstances is worse than being lynched. I also feel that if someone is caught lying and refuses to provide a reason for why he lied, or lies with his reason for why he lied we can and should 100 percent lynch him, town needs to able to answer one another honestly when confronted with an issue like this, only mafia should be lying to get themselves out of the fire. Also what do you think of the difference between withholding information as opposed to lying? | ||
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On March 12 2012 01:29 layabout wrote: + Show Spoiler [ tedious LaL crap] + On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote: What do you think it means? Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable. If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him. If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't. Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town? Town lie all the time. Town make illogical moves all the time. Town play anti-town all the time. But if we think they are town we do not lynch them. Can I quote you for my law project? | ||
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On March 12 2012 02:42 Caller wrote: i'd just like to say that people who say that we shouldn't lynch people for lying are already thinking about lying. And why would a townie want to lie right now? While their point is valid, they are just running interference for themselves. gumshoe and jitsu come to mind here. At least one of you is mafia. The other is probably a stupid townie. i say we lynch one of them... after we kill doctor h, of course. here's why we kill doctor h: a) doctor h is town mafia will likely be disorganized this round, so whether or not we kill him this does nothing. b) doctor h is mafia we take out mafia and their probable leader. having played with doctor h numerous times i can tell you that he is a leader type. and if we take out the mafia leader we'd really fuck up the mafia organization and strategy. tldr: one of jitsu and gumshoe is scum, we should kill doctor h because whether or not he's town or mafia, the worst thing that could happen is that we lose someone who would probably get hit early anyways, whereas at best we would take out somebody that is really essential to a mafia team's strategy. Jitsu and me could both be town getting pushed into the spotlight or we could both be scum, us being on opposite sides of the field does not say anything about our alignment, jitsu could just be trying to create an ideal town environment and generate discussion and I'm trying to prevent us from forming rock hard policy that can be used against us. so far you've advocated to kill a potential leader(you've said so yourself) and two players who are actively discussing a key note of this particular game(role of pms and honesty), I haven't read any of your old games so I'm not sure if this is what you usually do but I don't think your way is a healthy approach to the game, for instance in your reasoning for lynching doc you only consider him from the perspective that he is a threat, you don't consider the fact that if doc is town he could be of huge aid. Why would you lynch one of our best players because he could be scum? Also in regard to no lynch vs lynch I really don't want waste our kill point unless theres a really good reason, if we decide right now to no lynch day one the pressure goes off of the mafia and conversation stifles because theres nothing at stake, if we do no lynch it should be a decision we make an hour before the dead line(but not last minute because if we have a suspect that were just about to lynch but we leave alive he will remain a weak point for town that mafia can continuously attack for good reason) Caller whats your stance on a no lynch vs lynch and a lynch dead line? | ||
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On March 12 2012 03:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I said that mafia know "more or less" who's town, because there's a traitor in the game. So, they don't know 100% that anyone is town, and that they won't be shooting their traitor. Secondly, I never said that mafia knowing who town is was the disadvantage, I said that because mafia knows you're town, if they see you talking to another strong townie (who they'll also know is town), they can just shoot you and stop you from collaborating. In the first little bit of PMing, you're likely to be more wary of the other person while you try to establish a read, meaning that mafia can eliminate your PM threat before you accomplish anything, if you announce it. I'm not sure how you read that. What the hell? How's there no harm in someone asking you for your role? Why would another townie want to know your role, or more importantly need to know your role? If you're a townie, and you're rolefishing, you're just being dumb. You look like scum. Scum love to rolefish, because it lets them shoot blues for free, without the town having any idea why that person was shot. I completely fail to see why asking someone if they're a detective, or a medic, or whatever, is good for town. If you're a blue, you're really a VT. As soon as you tell people you're blue, without coming out in the thread, you compromise yourself, and you should be aware of that. For the record I suggested you use pms to talk to a blue that you've confirmed and you don't want to reveal T_T it wasn't a fishing proposal. | ||
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On March 12 2012 03:08 Mr. Wiggles wrote: If you know someone's town, or strongly believe someone to be town, why would you kill them 'just because'? Lying can be very harmful, town needs to feel that they are taking a risk when doing so, if there aren't at least some repercussions townies are free to be reckless, but I personally would rather discredit liars and simply agree to ignore them, not have liars serve as meat shields for scum. | ||
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gumshoe
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and finally i don't give a shit about policy. my job is to find mafia and get them killed. anything else is pointless. [/QUOTE] So your like zasz? ![[image loading]](http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/8/85841/1409417-zasz_large.jpg) Also you started the wifome by saying either me or jitsu was scum, your basis was what, that we were fighting each other? And at least one person in every fight is scum, right?(I thought scum try to avoid conflict...) I replied by saying me and jitsu fighting over pms could mean anything, isn't that anti wifome? Furthermore are you me that you are not going to answer any questions unless it is directly relevant to scum hunting? This is a team game, if your town I don't see what you gain by being nigh unapproachable. | ||
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On March 12 2012 06:17 Mattchew wrote: do you really think a town circle jerk can actually be pulled off Sorry can we please not call it a town circle jerk? As for wether its feasible, if you lay out your pms well you can have a group of five where everyone can contact everyone within that group of 5, wether it should be done for fear of spys is a separate issue, personally I feel if we can set up two groups of 5 consisting of solid townies I don't think both groups will be compromised, one large group though where people aren't sure who their contacts are talking to is just begging to be smashed. So if we do establish a circle it has to be organized perfectly to ensure the maximum amount of potential/manageable communication. I'm for it if we do groups of 5 where everyone can keep tabs on each other otherwise its best just to have a pm open with someone you trust and one in reserve for trap/emergency purposes like curu suggested. | ||
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Callers play was uber flashy, super risky and stupid, dosent seem like the kind of thing scum would do ) : I don't think he's scum, I do think he felt by putting himself in the spotlight he would be able to call out the people bussing him(ie the obvius target) Unfortunately I know from personal(albiet limited) experience that this does not work more often than not. The result of his plan was chaos and he even if he were to draw something out of the wreckage it would be hard to take what he says seriusley, so no my vote is not on caller, but I wouldn't mind having him be ignored for a while. Moving on I think Bill is scum, I'm going to go through his posts one by one(not difficult he only has like 10). Bill Murray starts of providing meta on a couple players. I have meta on both of them Katina is Lanaia, I believe. I am not as up to snuff on the scum game as from town, but I know I could do a good job with the scum if I was able to sense nervousness. In their town game, they like to be a backseat driver. I haven't played with Abenson in years, but from what I can remember, you can expect some crazy little guy who lives on the edge and doesn't take no for an answerHe notes that he could theoretically weed out I find it interesting that he's confident he can get a good read on her if she's town but the only thing he can do if she's scum is provide some general stuff, he also says that as town she back seats, he says this despite the fact that katina's last game(and the only game that shows up on her current account) she roled as scum, the game was arkham, and by the end katina had only two pages worth of filter in an over 200 page game, Bill Murray played in this game as hush and made it relatively far(day 4). In that game bill only adressed her three times and the last time he declared her town, I find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't go back and figure out the person who had him so well duped, even if he didn't hit kick himself a little he at least must have gained first hand experience of katinas scum play, but he claims otherwise. Unless he provides us with some more games with lania, I'm going to assume that this game is his only direct/recent experience with katinas play and this was when she was scum, so where is your experience with her town play coming from Bill? Please link a game, furthermore according to you she backsetats as town, well she does so as scum as well, therefore according to her behaviour is interchangeable yet you don't mention this. For the record Katina IS back seating this game. It just seems like a very sloppy post that keeps Bill from having to attack someone he should be familiar with, whats more providing vague past advice on players is a FANTASTIC way to look both experienced and productive, bill addresses jackals question six hours after it was asked, it was the first thing he felt he needed to address for some reason. Why? Like I said these kind of questions are scum's bread and butter and despite the fact that the question was ancient bill couldnt bother passing it up. Lets move on to the rest of the post, He says hes a bit rusty when it comes to abenson, but that from what he remembers abenson is a loose cannon. Discrediting townies based on ancient experience right at the start of the game... Doesn't strike me as pro town exactly... He addresses the Abenson question despite the fact that town has already talked about him, seems uneccecairy, you know like having more butter on bread then you could pssibly need unceccecairy... Then he briefly begins crumbing suspicion on caller why doctorH? He feels like he is genuine to me... you know something I don't? Remarkably I actually think this is an early scum slip, bill says he finds doc genuine, doesn't say why but he certainly sounds confident in dyh's innocence(note this is the first notable attempt bill makes to buddy up with dyh), then instead of saying caller is stupid or that hes scum he asks caller if he knows something about what I can only assume are the roles, now at first glance this is an accusation under a fluffy guise because the only way caller could know something of roles at this stage in the game is if he's scum. This light weight timid accusation is fishy enough on it's own, but then I thought about it a little,perhaps the reason for bills confidence in dyh's innocence is what bill knows that caller doesn't, and bill knows theres no way caller can know better than himself, bill knows who town is and who is scum which is why he somewhat ironically asks if caller knows something he doesn't, because caller cant possibly know that dyh is town just like bill knows he is, all this is because bill is scum. This is just speculation though to be honest, it was just how timid and cryptic this accusation came off that sorta gave me scummy vibes, why couldn't he just call him scum? I never thought of bill as the town coward and no matter how you spin it this dosent sound like the kind of question a straight forward townie like bill would ask, even in jest. Finally we get to his first major opinion on policy, and god is it wishy washy, I see both sides of the outting who you PM vs not I have outted it, and it cost the town, so I doubt I will be outting anything this game, unless Isee a blatant slip can you talk to us about the time you cost town? A reoccurring trend with you seems to be that you reference this magical well of experience that you never actually tap into. Note this is bills longest post, the rest are mostly infrequent three liners /: Next up his attack on me On March 11 2012 14:09 gumshoe wrote: Show nested quote + Gumshoe I dont think we should have to announce who were pming, but I do think we should all say when we have at least two people who have decided to pm us. Why? Because I dont think everyone should be pming the one guy who we all think is a great townie, everyone should have 4 contacts ideally, that way the spread of information is even and we have a better chance to gain more information as opposed to having everyone pming one guy. Of course that is optional and I wont suggest that you announce who has decided to pm you, just tell us when you have two contacts so we can keep the spread of pm lines even. Bill i dont like this quote, and it earned my vote the guy doesnt want someone taking pms i always want to be the guy taking pms, personally, that's what i like death to the infidels What? You voted for me because I suggested we spread out or pms? How is it useful to have one person hold multiple pms, if they are town they can get killed and several people have wasted a contact. If thier scum well... I think that speaks for itself, I still think two covert groups of five(five bieng the number that uses up all 10 pms but allows everyone in the group to contact one another) is the right way to go about pms but thats another fight for another day. Bill doesn't even suggest why its bad that we spread out our pms, he just sounds... childish. Contrast this open almost dismissive accusation with his timid attack on Caller, it almost feels like he knows there is no risk in attacking me because I am a newer player. This is not town behaviur, townies attack the biggest potential threats first not the easy prey noobs, or perhaps townies attack scum? I dont know I get attacked a lot by scum >_<. Next is a question he bill asks jitsu, what are your thoughts on layabout's alignment this game? Would like to hear your thoughts on jitsu's reply bill, until then this question is filler. next + Show Spoiler + @doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here. I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid. tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Umm what? You didnt see anything in me, you were mad because I was taking your pms and what not, DH brought up a solid case about me posting too many posts to do with policy, when did you ever mention that that was your problem with me? Unless youve been communicting with Dh outside of the thread I can only assume that your lying here and trying to buddy up with dh while reminding him of his suspiciuns of me and in fact crumbing a bit on DH for the future(for instacne, lets say curu gets lynched and then flips green, all you have to do is attack me, and if DH refuses to back you up you can point out how he just dropped his case on me all a sudden way back when), you also dont even provide your own evidence for why you doubt curu! Another theme with your play. We can see it play out 5 seconds later when you accuse Caller, now that everyones attacked him and hes pretty much proclaimed himself insane, you dont mind fully accusing him at all. Yet again you do not bring any evidence to back up your convictions. next post. 1) clicked on page 10 2) see LAL argument 3) *facepalm* I disagree with Jitsu. I feel fakeclaiming as a townie to soak a hit is very theoretically sound. I know it is viewed negatively, and helps mafia blend in, but I would argue I am very knowledgeable when it comes to playing the other side of the coin from history and meta. Mafia want to know who is what power role the most, so they can figure out how to untie the knot of the town's night actions. They hate not knowing who the doctors, watcher, trackers, whatever are. They want to be able to disrupt that. Aside from the fact that I find fake roleplaying silly I dont really have a problem with this post... no actually I do, once again he is referring to his great wealth of experience without providing evidence or an anecdote, and hes talking about meta while we were discussing several major lynch options... Next post op 2 suspects are jitsu and layabout, but i'm voting for caller... hmmm... sorry to spam, but something must be wrong with my brain. I'm going to switch my vote to jitsu, actually.t Da fuck? No one finds this suspicius? that bill is flip flopping back and forth within the space of one post? And why does he think hes spamming...and where did this jitsu vote come from? Last time you were just disagreeing with him now you think he's scum? Weird. And thats all for analysis. Bill provides no evidence to back up his claims. Has clearly been trying to buddy up with DH Only attacks weak targets and does so poorly (like me or caller) Has posted half as much in the past two days than his first day in arkham. Has Ridden on other people cases and on the wave of his own experience but provides no examples or reasons for why his experience is correct in this entirely different situation. How is this guy not scummy? And why has no one accused him yet? Few questions. Bill can you tell us a bit more about katina? How are you familiar with her town play but not her scum play? Dh what do you think of Bill potentially sheeping you? And what do all of you think of the fact that Bill hasn't said a thing about Jackal? Where is bill? Were approaching zero hour and he hasn't posted in over 12 hours! Last thing in regard to jackal, the solution is alot simpler than you think, we spare him tonight and see if a blue dies and flips with a unique player name, then will know that jackal is probably telling the truth because only he could know his own player name if hes a blue, we can also tell now that (because the games theme seems to be player names) that the scum god father will be named after a notorious player. Same thing with the traitor, and the blues will probably have the name of a player with a good rep, like dream flower. Anyways my vote goes to Bill Murray unless you guys have a better suggestion right now. | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:22 Curu wrote: I'm in two minds cause I'm convinced Dreamflower is not under any way shape or form a Normal role especially with the new strict standards that govern what constitutes a Normal game. But on the other hand the claimed role still makes no sense for Mafia. The only thing I can think of is that there may be an odd number of Mafia and leaving Jackal alive for a day gives Mafia an additional KP going into the night. If we leave Jackal alive he is going to have to shoot tonight and claim his shot right before the deadline. I'll re-read the thread to see if there's anything else that sticks out but I doubt I would like a lynch better than Jackal. Even in the offchance he is Town losing the role is not a huge loss because it's such a double sided sword. Especially given the circumstances since a rushed shot is far more likely to hit a Town (resulting in 2 anti Town KP). Leave him alive tonight see who shows up dead tommorow, all we need is confirmation that player names play a role. | ||
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also Dh I noticed you posted a case against me way back, do you still want me to address it? | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:44 Curu wrote: I want to stay with Jackal. Best case scenario we get scum, worst case we've used our day 1 lynch on Town. If we move onto someone else the best case scenario becomes we get scum and Jackal hits Mafia (super duper unlikely), worst case scenario becomes we used our day 1 lynch on Town and 2 extra KP hits Townies at night (very very likely). I'm not confident enough in any other lynches right now to take that risk. Katina maybe but it would mostly become firing into lurkers or people posting stupid stuff as opposed to scummy stuff. gumshoe I think most of it, especially the flip flopping, is stupid derp posting rather than scummy posting. It's hard to tell whether flip flopping is a sign of uncertainty (very possible on day 1 especially) or scum motivations (which we can't know till people flip). And his obvious lie about katina? Why would her current behaviour correlate with town play, when in her most recent game she played almost the exact same way but scummier? I dont think we should lynch jackal, if he had just sad he was doc I would be all for killing him but he identified a theme to roles, which means we just need to wait and see if his theme is real, otherwise he pulled it out of his ass and we lynch, why kill a potential blue? | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: not particularly, i'm not voting for you Pandain why the fuck would you claim DT day 1 with no pressure maybe he's bored? Or he could be fake claiming, but unless you want to lynch him we should drop the subgect. One thing though, Pandain since your claiming your dc anyways, would you mind telling us if your pm gives your role a specific name? If it does then we can probably clear jackal today and move on. | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:51 Pandain wrote: lol Dr. H I expected more from you.... I'm actually getting replaced just having a bit of fun ) : was hoping you could help jack out. Umm curu, what if someone could make sure jack survives the night? Would that be a good move? Make sure he can save the bullet till he knows who scum is? I just don't see the merits of killing a blue when all we have to do is just wait a day to see if he's lying ): | ||
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On March 13 2012 07:02 Curu wrote: lol that post by VE was so ridiculously bad. gumshoe you're really getting caught up in the idea that blues are sacred. Jackal's role is arguably more anti Town than pro Town. Consider that even normal Vigilantes can contribute heavily to Town losing, a suicide Vig is a hundred times worse. I admit I have a high opinion of blues, but really the solution is simple, jackal just dosent have to shoot. Lets have him make a deal, we treat his shot as a lynch, we vote who he kills, regardless as long as jackal remains alive mafia will have to roleblock him or at least be wary of him. I value you bues but I am not relying on them and I am not doing scums job by killing one. Also are you actually trying to convince me that mislynching is a good thing? Btw do we even have enough people right now for a majority lynch? | ||
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On March 13 2012 07:08 Curu wrote: Go find the case yourself gumshoe, I'm not here to baby you. Before the claim I would lynch Jackal 100% over anyone else. I feel that strongly about my meta read. After the claim I think that it is completely weird for Mafia to claim that but this is outweighed by my belief that a Suicidal Vig has no place in a Normal game. With Jackal's history of claiming crazy shit as Mafia (Resurrection Mafia he claimed some impossibly convoluted role, Cosmic Horror Mafia he "found" the breadcrumb to bus one of his Mafia mates for examples) I wouldn't put something like this past him. I'll make you a deal, if no blues die tonight and we have no way to confirm the games theme, I will put an end to jackal. Thats the best I can offer. | ||
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On March 13 2012 11:20 Mattchew wrote: Back ... not much has changed? pandain and jackal fake claims and a bunch of poo flinging to see what sticks? were not monkies -_- how about we lynch a lurker? Or are we set on a no lynch right now? | ||
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On March 13 2012 22:31 VisceraEyes wrote: Any other stellar observations you'd care to make before you die Caller? Umm also I really don't get this whole ve is a retard trend, ve just single handedly won storm mafia, he called out 3 scum on day one. Wether he's scum town or third party he's an experienced player who knows what he's doing and his posts so far seem to reflect that(especially his case on prplz's unexplainable flip flop) though they have been somewhat authoritarian >_< then I guess you have to be a bit bossy to get town to move. | ||
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On March 13 2012 22:25 Palmar wrote: umm VE is town. don't be dumb. hey palmar whats it like in the land of eve online? | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:00 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm just done fuckin around gumshoe. I spent yesterday watching, I'm spending tonight and the rest of the game acting on what I saw. I saw Caller claim scum and I saw prplhz act scummy. So I'm going to push for their lynch until they're dead. I'm hoping some enterprising young vig takes care of Caller for me because I think prplhz will be a much easier pill for town to swallow. What do you think about Jitsu gumshoe? About Jackal? Well know what jackal is after tonight hopefully, all I need is theme confirmation and I'll buy jackals story, dream flower has a good reputation right? Hes not like an uber scummy player as far as I know. As for jackals play, he's had to spend waaaaaay too much time defending himself, also I would expect him to post more during night, try to give us more leads, but he hasn't ) : he hasnt done anything really scummy either, but thats again because he's had to defend himself, honestly we just need to wait, his colours will be alot brighter once the pressure falls off him a little if hes town. If he mantains radio silence though hell earn my suspicion. Meanwhile jitsu had the policy stuff at the start, which is what eves, I went back and forth with him a bit for a while, then he got uber defensive when people started getting on his case about his policy talk, seems like standard try hard townie play or solid subtle scum play. I'm saying town though because I have been in his situation before as a townie and his behaviour is no different from how I acted at the time. Just wish he'd post more, offer up a case or two. Day one accusations are good for fishing for scum reactions. I know I'd be able to draw a few lines if we lynched one of these players so if thats the route you want to take it'll probably work given how pretty much everyone commented on at least one of these subjects, but I personally doubt either of them are scum ) : If I had to lynch one I would go with jitsu because jackal can confirm his role in time, yet I think were better off lynching bm or prp tommorow. Caller strikes me as just stupid townie but that could be his intent, hopefully he wont be our problem anymore after tonight like you said. | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:18 Caller wrote: whatever. ve i'm laying off you for now, i trust palmar's judgement. keep tunnel visioning and chasing red herrings though, although i personally suggest you look at the people i've been accusing (cough jackal and drh) regardless of how shitty you may think my reasoning is. Wait your serius about drh? Cmon man even YOU admitted your rreasoning on him was retarded. But please go ahead explain whats so scummy about dh, earlyer you said your not hear to baby sit me by stating YOUR cases to convince me, well i NEED to hear why you think DH is scum right now if you want a chance in hell of convincing me or anyone else for that matter. | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:22 Jitsu wrote: Lol Gumshoe. So you think i'm townie, but you would be ok with my lynch? dafuq? Over jackal yes, but I state at the end I would prefer bill or prp. Way to cherry pick. Read my whole post next time. | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:23 Jitsu wrote: Also, you would vote for my lynch, yet you had Bill Murray targeted as mafia yesterday, made a case, and then voted for him. No? READ THE WHOLE POST. | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:23 Jitsu wrote: Also, you would vote for my lynch, yet you had Bill Murray targeted as mafia yesterday, made a case, and then voted for him. No? Also man where did you come from? you show up like a bolt of lightning screaming scape goat! The moment someone mentions your name. What do you think of bm? | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:32 prplhz wrote: How the hell will we know this by tomorrow? Assuming that he really is the role he claims to be: If he just claims roleblocked then we don't know anything. If he shoots a townie then we would have been better off lynching him today. If he shoots scum then that's pretty cool. If he holds his shot then we're exactly where we were today. What the hell does "turn on the town" mean? Yeah thought this might need an explanation. Jitsu didnt just role claim, he claimed theres a theme. I'm hoping scum hits a blue tonight(unfortunatley )  so that we can confirm its a name theme. Dream flower is a goodie player, so we can deduce that jackal is town. At worst we force scum to only target greens tonight, at best we clear jackals name and we can move on with the lynch tomorrow. That or jackal can pick out a target that we chose, if that target is scum yay! If the target is town well... at least jackal wont be our problem anymore. | ||
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On March 13 2012 23:35 Caller wrote: i dunno, i still just feel like hes scum. thats my reasoning right now. nothing i can distinctly show off as evidence. just a general "this guy stinks like a rat." T_T caller you make me so sad, I just get this gut feeling your town, but not providing evidence with an accusation is exactly what scum do. Fine not DH just cough up a well reasoned case thats all I ask. | ||
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On March 14 2012 00:12 Caller wrote: if i die tonight palmar is mafia just sayin' First off, sigh caller, just sigh. Now onwards! Heres something interesting, look at these two posts by abenson. Abenson Canada. March 11 2012 23:21. Posts 2145 PM Profile Blog Report Quote # filter Since when where we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O League of Legends IGN: Enigmatic Legend | #1 LoCicero Fanboy! Mood: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This first qoute is just abenson bieng ignorant, which is understandeble, the second post though... He is seen qoutng that first post, except one thing, theres more to it, look at the bolded part. Abenson Canada. March 11 2012 23:22. Posts 2145 PM Profile Blog Report Quote # filter On March 11 2012 23:21 Abenson wrote: Since when were we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O Wasn't there a huge argument over the use of PM's and it was abolished along with clues? This was not in the post abenson is qouting, which means absenson edited the comment and later reposted the whole thing, now why would he edit this comment? It's just a typical question, why would he be concerned about it? Well who should be concerned about pms and clues in a game of mafia? Well the mafia of course, pms are great in the hands of town, suddenly mafias greatest advantage, perfect communication, is gone. If abenson is town he should be ecstatic about pms, or at least be discussing the best way to use them, instead he mentions how they shouldn't be in this game. TLDR Why would Abenson suggest that pms should be banned if hes town? And if he just made this comment off handedly, why did he edit it? Also covinientley you know what else is good for town? Clues, and abenson condemns that along with pms. Question for Abenson, who was arguing that pms shouldn't be allowed between townies in that great discussion you mentioned? What were the arguments? Were they made by scum players? Was it because scum is too hard to play when town can communicate? Also why did you edit your comment? And why are you lurking so hardcore? As far I know your supposed to be a crazy active player. Few other things, heres something he said early on. Goal #1: Make all my post contain 3+ lines. You failed. Another thing. Taken from the TL Mafia Quiz Thread - Hide Spoiler [Abenson] - 11. You are Abenson and you are bored of lurking. What should you do? a) Spam b) Post a one-liner c) Post a one-liner in Russian d) Post a two-liner e) "Trying to decide whether or not I should make a huge celebration post regarding my icon" f) "I'm going to give my analysis of this tomorrow." Never post it. Why would you as a townie work to make your self look like a bad player? Does not make sense to me and where is your fabled spam? Arent you tired of lurking yet? Now for a riddle, when is a spammy player not spammy? When he's scum! | ||
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On March 14 2012 02:17 Mattchew wrote: I mason'd Palmar... Still debating on my second mason... Hey matt any thoughts on the usual suspects? Bill? Katina? Abendson?(I posted a thing ma jig on him a couple pages ago.) Oh and I masoned jackal. | ||
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On March 14 2012 02:35 Kurumi wrote: Być innocent! Hominem te esse memento! Bonitas regarde proszę! can you lend a translation whenever you do one of these? Because they are cool if we can understand them. | ||
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On March 14 2012 02:36 Mattchew wrote: i can see abenson being scum. there was a vote with no reason and lurking Welcome to me 2 hours ago -_- read my post on his nigjaish edit. | ||
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On March 14 2012 02:44 Katina wrote: <3 I haven't technically been absent. I have been reading through everything and you my dear sir looked worthy enough to say something to. Cool story, bro. You never mentioned me until I called you out. Was I bringing some unwanted attention towards you that made you feel the need to try and flip it back onto me? Thats actually pretty standard as town ( : I mentioned you briefly in my case on bm, why'll your here can you tell us a bit about why you think he doesn't have a read on you as scum? But does have a read on you as town despite the fact that the last game he played with you you were scum(arkham)? | ||
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On March 14 2012 03:17 Curu wrote: Oh shit Palmar is here. My vote is yours Palmar. Nonsense you have to at least entertain the notion that palmar is scum though honestly I am glad for his presence, when does he usually go super saign four on scum?Also does no one care about bm? ) : he STILL hasnt posted, wtf. | ||
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On March 14 2012 04:11 Palmar wrote: I don't think Caller is scum, what do you think about that? Do you think I'm wrong and you and VE right? I think caller's approach all says he's pretty damn townie. Like if this is scum play my hat is off to him. Actually theres a far more logical answer, Caller is traitor, he is not in communication with scum so he has to attract their attention and he cannot be reprimanded by them, at the same time his beacon play conveniently makes him look like a flashy townie. It makes sense, just saying. | ||
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On March 14 2012 04:19 Curu wrote: Caller's play is calling attention to himself, actively trying to contribute and bring up new cases/information in the thread. No reason for Mafia to do that at all. Traitor was brought back wasn't he? someone ask in green! I dont know how. | ||
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On March 14 2012 04:38 Ver wrote: There is a traitor: the OP is correct. It was removed when we switched to flip and put back in once we went over the player cap. Thank you, Curu you are wrong, there is a perfectly good reason for reckless play and caller cant be tied to his associates for his crazy actions because he doesn't know who they are, he could be relying on them to seek him out. I wonder if scum were sure there was a traitor? | ||
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On March 14 2012 04:24 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: (green)(/green) with brackets. I thought traitor was back as well. Right? Sentinal I thought we got the traitor back because I pmed syl before the start of the game and he mentioned it had been returned, why did you think the traitor was back? | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:51 Pandain wrote: lol Dr. H I expected more from you.... I'm actually getting replaced just having a bit of fun Pandain said he was just fucking around, Palmer if you say his claim is true can you tell us your specific role name? If its a weird player name thingie you might be able to clear jackal's name. | ||
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No. | ||
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On March 14 2012 10:03 Mattchew wrote: Bill Murray is scum. He has posted nothing of value and has been completely wishy washy. i dont think jackal should shoot at all, but if drunk jackal is trigger happy, he should shoot Bill Murray over anyone else I hate you matt T_T though I'm glad people are starting to look his way. | ||
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On March 14 2012 10:15 EchelonTee wrote: uh why dyou hate matt for agreeing with your earlier read? Read matts next two posts. | ||
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On March 14 2012 10:19 Mattchew wrote: its actually funny gumshoe, if you learned to condense down your cases to just the points of them, you'd probably gain traction and peoples opinions on them Cant argue with that, at least you cant accuse me of not caring. | ||
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On March 14 2012 13:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote: What is the point of confirming a role by killing the person who has it what is even the point of confirming a role? I don't care if he confirms anything, he isn't scummy his claim seems like something that mafia wouldn't claim (only confirmable via suicide or killing your own team, can't even claim RBs) his town is inherently worse for town than it is good, if he didn't shoot that's a great thing and he shouldn't be lynched for failing to confirm his role via double townie suicide jesus christ i forgot tl towns only care about confirming blues I dont care about blues, I just somehow want to hear what they have to say Well night night. | ||
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On March 15 2012 03:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Curu is lying, I never once said Jackal's role was good for town or pro-town. I said it's a retarded lynch. "Why are we lynching a claimed blue with town KP instead of Jitsu again? Because this is a "normal" game ? " Apparently not wanting to mislynch someone who is potentially useful down the line (after a broadcasted DT check for example) which I say easily in the same breath as calling it a role that is generally bad for town, those statements are in no way contradictory, means I think his role is great for town and I'm a liar Curu you are either scum or a complete fucking moron Curu was desperately pushing for jackals lynch, if he had succeeded and jackal was blue like he claimed we would've lynched curu immediately after, I don't think he's scum because he's playing too reckless, but his tunnel needs to end now, curu jackal is off limits for today at least, even if he is scum there are four other mafia out there and this conversation is going nowhere, find another case please ) : | ||
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Let me put it this way, scum see a guy who says he's being framed, they are not framing him, so clearly town were pushing him, therefore that guy was probably investigate meaning he's the traitor, even better it turned out caller was lying about being a dt, which makes this whole plan perfect because suddenly caller's accusation means nothing. Yet the accusation was never the point, the point was sending a message that only scum could recognize and thats exactly what sentinal has done. Oh and Palmer, Just because caller is crazy doesn't mean sentinel should be cleared . So between bm abenson and sentinal who do you guys want to lynch? You can check out my cases against bm and abenson in my filter. | ||
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On March 16 2012 12:17 Curu wrote: Katina, gumshoe, Caller are who I would look at right now. Caller I'm not sure about but he popped in at the deadline to throw away his vote. Need to re-read the thread. As derpworthy as I feel Mattchew has been playing he looks pretty Town for bringing down the hammer. Curu, I've posted 2 strong well reasoned cases, I've engaged in discussion many many times, I do not troll, I answer all questions in a straight forward manner, the only thing I have done wrong is put my vote on bm instead of kurumi, besides just because kurumi was scum dosent mean bm in'st -_- oh and heres something pretty, Kurumi Bill Murray is playing a good game so far and I am really happy about that. Bm had not been playing a good game at all. He is still not. I would bet my tournament life that bm is scum. If he's not please lynch me, I repeat I am 100 percent sure bm is scum. If you are still suspicious of me I invite you to take a look at my filter, maybe then you'll actually pay attention to what I have been saying. | ||
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On March 16 2012 12:34 Curu wrote: Seems really odd to me that you completely ignored my constant pleas not to let a no lynch happen then go throw away your vote for nothing when I said 99999999x that was a terrible idea. I mean Mattchew was even more stubborn but he ended up listening to reason. You just completely ignored it. I told you there was no realistic chance BM was ever going to get lynched. There's a possibility of you just being really thickheaded Town but yeah, I do need to read the thread again. Katina looks much worse anyways ATM. I made my vote in a rush, I also went into this game thinking scum WOULDN'T play a flashy game so I crossed kurumi off as just stupid, look at my past few games, I have in fact had bad experiences with scummy lurkers. I am pleasantly surprised that kurumi was scum and a touch regretful that I was unable to contribute to his lynch. but at the time I voted for the guy I thought to be the most scummy and I don't regret that decision, If you had listened to me and hosted a bm lynch we would had the same outcome, besides isn't a last second switch just as scummy as not switching? It seems like your just getting on my case because I didn't agree with you and frankly up until kurumi was lynched I wasn't sure you were town either. Please don't abuse your current momentum and statues as confirmed townie to lynch an active and for the most part contributing player just because you didn't see eye to eye with him. | ||
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On March 16 2012 12:54 jaybrundage wrote: Im confused why people think palmar is town. He caused two townie deaths. Are we really going to say that Palmar is town all of a sudden. This makes zero sense at all. Also Katina is hella scummy. We should lynch her tommorow Please consider lynching bm -_- or at least give me a good reason not to. | ||
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On March 16 2012 12:54 jaybrundage wrote: Im confused why people think palmar is town. He caused two townie deaths. Are we really going to say that Palmar is town all of a sudden. This makes zero sense at all. Also Katina is hella scummy. We should lynch her tommorow Palmar has done alot of stuff behind the scenes I'm guessing, plus he's lynched two of our weakest townies node and jackal, effectively removing them from discussion that can now be used to find actual scum. He seems pretty town to me. | ||
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On March 16 2012 13:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Bill Murray/jaybrundage/Katina/EchelonTee any questions? Palmar proved his roleclaim was legit, thinking he's scum is just stupid at this point. Wait so your ok with bm? Anyways I'm going to bed, vig, if your out there please please please shoot bm. night night. | ||
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On March 16 2012 22:21 deconduo wrote: Any chance of an answer to this? Traitor flips black no matter what. And Aside from the abilities for scum listed in the op no, there are no others, except one of those abilities is the ability to switch powers I think . | ||
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On March 17 2012 03:07 Caller wrote: don't worry about whether or not palmar is trust worthy or not i'm shooting him first thing tomorrow morning Umm why? How about Bm? | ||
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The only reason palmer would lynch you is because your gun makes you dangerous, your like that guy who hears his boss is considering killing you because he thinks your going to go crazy and kill him and then you do go crazy and kill him because he dared imagine that you could go crazy and kill him. Please dont shoot palmer T_T | ||
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On March 17 2012 04:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Just got back. Not surprised. Putting my money on Curu or ET being scum. Back into my hole. Da fuck? You dont get to just pop up accuse one of our most active players, who backed our first real lynch and then just crawl back into your hole, I propose we insta lynch sentinal, what do I need to do to see him and bm burn? | ||
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Kidding, gg yawl, glad I soaked up a hit. | ||
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