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Rock solid case Caller, I'm glad you're bringing some cool logic into this game.
PM should be used as a tool to pressure and harass your scumreads imo not to setup town circles unless you have an investigative role or some means of entrapping scum/confirming people with it, it's better to bring the pressure directly to scum where they can't just ignore it like they can in the thread. if someone is going around and using their PMs just to buddy up with people and try to gain trust, I would think of that as being highly suspicious right away. the goal of a townie is not to prove they are a townie.
at the end of the day a policy of "lynch anyone who doesn't claim pm targets" would be ridiculous so as usual it's up to an individuals discretion. i don't think scum have a huge incentive to hide who they are PMing especially considering it would only bring more scrutiny on them
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Hey guys
I'm surprised that Jackal58 is openly advocating that people announce who they are in PM contact with immediately. It's somewhat okay when a guy like Mattchew hides behind the "more information for town"-mantra, but I expect more from Jackal58.
If player A and player B are in contact with each other and they're both town, then why does the rest of the game need to know this? Scum can shoot into people to prevent town circles this way (as Mr. Wiggles already pointed out) and that's pretty bad. You are just giving scum extra information.
The PM mechanism is a town favored mechanism and we shouldn't be so afraid of it as everybody seems to be. We should instead encourage people to use it wisely. Fear mongering such as "Oh, BloodyC0bbler used this in some game to kick town's ass so lets all be afraid of PMs" is harmful, while "Be ware that people might be scum, don't just trust them because they're in PM contact with you. Use your brain." is a lot more useful for the single townie and for town as a whole.
Also, Mr. Wiggles advice on "state in thread when someone rolefishes" is bad. Use your brain. If a guy asks you for his role then there's no real harm in that, both townies and scum would benefit from it. If he insists on you telling him his role while you're trying to talk about reads and analysis, then you can start getting suspicious.
I'm not going to announce who I'm in PM contact with, unless they're scum. Every townie who says that they're going to say in the thread who they're in contact with is making it less likely that other people contact them, which is a bad thing.
I'll probably write a list of people I think are going to be very active in this game and then RNG one of them and PM contact that guy. I didn't really decide yet.
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On March 11 2012 13:40 Jackal58 wrote:
Has anybody played with Katina or Abenson before? If so what can we expect?
I have meta on both of them
Katina is Lanaia, I believe. I am not as up to snuff on the scum game as from town, but I know I could do a good job with the scum if I was able to sense nervousness. In their town game, they like to be a backseat driver.
I haven't played with Abenson in years, but from what I can remember, you can expect some crazy little guy who lives on the edge and doesn't take no for an answer
On March 11 2012 13:46 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:42 Abenson wrote:
Alright, checking in to the game.
Goal #1: Make all my post contain 3+ lines.
For the day 1 lynch I think we should just lynch the lurkers to force them to talk. Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:43 Abenson wrote:On March 11 2012 13:40 Jackal58 wrote:
Has anybody played with Katina or Abenson before? If so what can we expect? Taken from the TL Mafia Quiz Thread + Show Spoiler [Abenson] +11. You are Abenson and you are bored of lurking. What should you do?a) Spam
b) Post a one-liner
c) Post a one-liner in Russian
d) Post a two-liner
e) "Trying to decide whether or not I should make a huge celebration post regarding my icon"
f) "I'm going to give my analysis of this tomorrow." Never post it. O_o
hahaha
it's not that bad
he's kind of cute
On March 11 2012 14:43 Caller wrote:
goddamn u kids are so tryhard
this is how its gonna work
i'm gonna find the mafia, and then i'm gonna kill them. any questions? no? good.
i say we kill gumshoe for being meta
i also say we kill doctorh because i feel like it. i haven't summarily executed anyone in a while, even as a mod
why doctorH?
He feels like he is genuine to me... you know something I don't?
I see both sides of the outting who you PM vs not
I have outted it, and it cost the town, so I doubt I will be outting anything this game, unless Isee a blatant slip
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On March 11 2012 14:09 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 14:05 Mattchew wrote:
i will not be using the pm function until atleast day 2 or 3 when I have a better feel for everyone.
I will be announcing to the thread who I decide to PM with when I do, and if someone adds me I will announce that as well. I think we should all partake in this practice I dont think we should have to announce who were pming, but I do think we should all say when we have at least two people who have decided to pm us. Why? Because I dont think everyone should be pming the one guy who we all think is a great townie, everyone should have 4 contacts ideally, that way the spread of information is even and we have a better chance to gain more information as opposed to having everyone pming one guy. Of course that is optional and I wont suggest that you announce who has decided to pm you, just tell us when you have two contacts so we can keep the spread of pm lines even.
i dont like this quote, and it earned my vote
the guy doesnt want someone taking pms
i always want to be the guy taking pms, personally, that's what i like
death to the infidels
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Since it's extended majority lynch I guess there can be no-lynch?
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EWODP:
I hit enter too fast.
Anyway I don't think Katina is Lanaia and she (Katina) was coached in the recent Arkham.
D1 lurker lynch is... well, there's always a better option than a lurker lynch, so I am against it.
LAL? Uh, we chant it everyday and nothing happens: see recent Arkham.
The real question is about lynching / no-lynching D1 and I am more for a lynch than passing the day.
Did You know my Rattata is in the top percentage of Rattata?
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As for PMs.. Maybe just crumb or don't say anything at all? At least for the first cycle? You can always try to get my number but..
My Rattata is in the top percentage of Rattata...
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On March 11 2012 18:19 prplhz wrote:
Hey guys
I'm surprised that Jackal58 is openly advocating that people announce who they are in PM contact with immediately. It's somewhat okay when a guy like Mattchew hides behind the "more information for town"-mantra, but I expect more from Jackal58.
If player A and player B are in contact with each other and they're both town, then why does the rest of the game need to know this? Scum can shoot into people to prevent town circles this way (as Mr. Wiggles already pointed out) and that's pretty bad. You are just giving scum extra information.
The PM mechanism is a town favored mechanism and we shouldn't be so afraid of it as everybody seems to be. We should instead encourage people to use it wisely. Fear mongering such as "Oh, BloodyC0bbler used this in some game to kick town's ass so lets all be afraid of PMs" is harmful, while "Be ware that people might be scum, don't just trust them because they're in PM contact with you. Use your brain." is a lot more useful for the single townie and for town as a whole.
Also, Mr. Wiggles advice on "state in thread when someone rolefishes" is bad. Use your brain. If a guy asks you for his role then there's no real harm in that, both townies and scum would benefit from it. If he insists on you telling him his role while you're trying to talk about reads and analysis, then you can start getting suspicious.
I'm not going to announce who I'm in PM contact with, unless they're scum. Every townie who says that they're going to say in the thread who they're in contact with is making it less likely that other people contact them, which is a bad thing.
I'll probably write a list of people I think are going to be very active in this game and then RNG one of them and PM contact that guy. I didn't really decide yet.
My advocacy is not set in stone. Hence why I asked for a dissenting viewpoint. The discussion is much better than the typical day 1 LaL/Lurker conversation we've all seen a million times already.
Mr Wiggles - Why state the obvious in your disadvantages? Of course scum know who's town.
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On March 11 2012 17:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Rock solid case Caller, I'm glad you're bringing some cool logic into this game.
PM should be used as a tool to pressure and harass your scumreads imo not to setup town circles unless you have an investigative role or some means of entrapping scum/confirming people with it, it's better to bring the pressure directly to scum where they can't just ignore it like they can in the thread. if someone is going around and using their PMs just to buddy up with people and try to gain trust, I would think of that as being highly suspicious right away. the goal of a townie is not to prove they are a townie.
at the end of the day a policy of "lynch anyone who doesn't claim pm targets" would be ridiculous so as usual it's up to an individuals discretion. i don't think scum have a huge incentive to hide who they are PMing especially considering it would only bring more scrutiny on them
100% disagree with you. The goal of a town player is to prove their innocence just as much as it is to find scum. If a townie can effectively prove that they are innocent, it does a few things.
1. It doesn't give Town room to speculate whether or not that player is innocent or sinister.
2. It can add legitimacy to their reads, however, it doesn't mean that everything they say is law.
3. It doesn't give the opportunity for mafia to throw speculation against that player.
I think a case can be made both ways for revealing who you PM. I'd be more concerned if I saw BM masoning with gumshoe then DocH.
I also don't really buy into the fact that if someone is blatantly lying, they won't be punished for it. You hold people accountable for the actions in the thread. Period.
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Since when where we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O
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On March 11 2012 23:21 Abenson wrote:
Since when were we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O
Wasn't there a huge argument over the use of PM's and it was abolished along with clues?
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On March 11 2012 23:22 Abenson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 23:21 Abenson wrote:
Since when were we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O
Wasn't there a huge argument over the use of PM's and it was abolished along with clues?
OP was written 12 days ago. What's your excuse for not reading it?
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1. Publicly announcing who you are in PM contact with:
There are situations in which it may be advantageous to announce that you have been PM-ing a player. However, announcing who you are in contact with by default shares information that is of little use to town but that scum would benefit from knowing. For example, if an all-town PM circle was established and announced immediately scum would know that all the players were town and they could then react to this.
2. I like butter
3. Obligatory MS-Paint:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 11 2012 23:42 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 23:22 Abenson wrote:On March 11 2012 23:21 Abenson wrote:
Since when were we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O
Wasn't there a huge argument over the use of PM's and it was abolished along with clues?
OP was written 12 days ago. What's your excuse for not reading it?
My post can summarized as this:
When did TL Mafia started allowing PM's again?
That does not mean I am unaware of the fact that we can PM in this game.
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On March 12 2012 00:00 Abenson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 23:42 prplhz wrote:On March 11 2012 23:22 Abenson wrote:On March 11 2012 23:21 Abenson wrote:
Since when were we allowed to PM in a mafia game O_O
Wasn't there a huge argument over the use of PM's and it was abolished along with clues?
OP was written 12 days ago. What's your excuse for not reading it? My post can summarized as this: When did TL Mafia started allowing PM's again? That does not mean I am unaware of the fact that we can PM in this game.
Maybe post that here instead?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133814
@Jitsu, what do you mean by player that lie should be "held accountable"?
Are you suggesting that:
We always lynch players that lie - a suggestion that is sort of bad.
Or
We consider that they have lied and then evaluate the player based on their overall play - since we should be doing this anyway this seems to be equivalent to suggesting we lynch the player that we think is most likely to flip mafia
?
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Claiming that scum know who town is is stupid. Of course they know who town is.
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K so seeming as town is a bit on the fence regarding pms I think it should just come down to ones own choice, if you feel you want to give town the info do so, if you don't want to broadcast your town reads or give scum a heads up don't.
Few things though, if you do tell town who your pming do not lie about that person, I am with jitsu for the lying rule because the more honest as opposed to faulty info out there the easier it is to conduct analysis(although scum will of course lie and against a back drop of honest townies it becomes far more obvious that they are scum).
Secondly whereas lying is bad withholding information/keeping town/mafia on a need to know basis is a staple of mafia, how is withholding your contacts any different from withholding your suspicions until your case is complete? So if you pm someone without telling town and that guy broadcasts that you did so, I do not think that should take target priority(unless theres REALLY nothing better around) come lynch time.
Now another topic, early on I mentioned lynching lurkers, that is not going to be an issue seeing as everyone seems pretty active.
Yet how about the other topic I brought up? What of a preliminary vote deadline? It'll help avoid mass vote switches and help keep town organized, any nays? Any suggestions when a deadline would be ideal?
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What do you think it means?
Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.
If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him.
If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't.
Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town?
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+ Show Spoiler [ tedious LaL crap] +On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote:
What do you think it means?
Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.
If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him.
If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't.
Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town? Town lie all the time. Town make illogical moves all the time. Town play anti-town all the time. But if we think they are town we do not lynch them.
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On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote:
What do you think it means?
Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.
If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him.
If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't.
Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town?
I think a player who lies should be placed under extreme suspicion, but I do not think we should pigeon hole ourselves by saying we have to lynch him, you basically give mafia a get out of jail free card, if they can prove a townie is lying they can ensure his death.
Lying should be a component of a case, not a case on its own. it should also serve as very solid grounds to discredit a player, which in some circumstances is worse than being lynched. I also feel that if someone is caught lying and refuses to provide a reason for why he lied, or lies with his reason for why he lied we can and should 100 percent lynch him, town needs to able to answer one another honestly when confronted with an issue like this, only mafia should be lying to get themselves out of the fire.
Also what do you think of the difference between withholding information as opposed to lying?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KPDIs.png)
