|
On March 13 2012 05:37 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:08 EchelonTee wrote:On March 13 2012 00:38 Jitsu wrote:On March 12 2012 15:01 Bill Murray wrote:
jitsu, what are your thoughts on layabout's alignment this game? At this point, I was essentially finished talking about Lynch All Liars. I stressed my point many times, and felt that it was enough and didn't need to be reopened. You say that I continued to talk about the LaL policy up. Also, ET, you're first quote...: <quote> ...is in response to gumshoe. Go back and look at it. I didn't feel the need to add a quote because his post was one or two above mine, and was "easily" associated with it. It's not a continuation, it's a response. Don't make it out like it is. I say that you continued to talk about the LaL policy because... you did. you spent almost 2/3 of the day cycle on the topic when it really should only be talked about briefly, if at all. The fact that that quote is towards gumshoe, and not layabout, does not change the fact that your only contributions to the thread was this policy discussion that doesn't even really relate to any people in the thread. you said somewhere that first goal of town is to look innocent: I feel that you're taking that knowledge in mind as a mafioso and trying to look pro-town, when you're really not. On March 13 2012 00:38 Jitsu wrote:
Secondly, you say that my case on prphlz is flimsy.
How many games have you played? Have you ever mis-read the name of a player? It's generally the first thing I look at when someone posts. I don't "get all giddy and assume" that it's someone. You think prphlz would just go right by a nametag at the top of a post, and assume it's someone? Please. You and I both know he is better then that.
How does that not give outside communication? Curu already say they weren't PMing, so that kills that reason.
I don't think I have EVER seen a legit case built off of an fn posting mistake. prplhz just has a severe case of sheeping; he sees the red text, he wants to follow teh leader. you're also heavily implicating a prplhz-Curu scumbuddy connection, without providing any basis for it except for "no one could possibly misread a name". if you wanted to build a real case you would have done more work on prplhz' other posts, but of course, you don't want to do that. On March 13 2012 01:21 Curu wrote:
Get off Jitsu. There is no reason for Mafia to spew something stupid like that if him and Jackal are opposite alignments.
1. Jackal Town Jitsu Mafia = why protect Jackal with something dumb right now, should just go with it and let us case formers take the fall after flip
2. Jackal Town Jitsu Town = can explain his actions
3. Jackal Mafia Jitsu Town = can explain his actions
4. Jackal Mafia Jitsu Mafia = can explain his actions
In scenario 1 Jitsu could easily be setting himself up for a good D2 mislynch: "see guys I knew jackal wasn't mafia. let's kill prplhz, he was a big sheep on that case". He didn't exactly proclaim Jackal's, nor confront the more solid cases against him, so it's not like he's "protecting" jackal that much at all. To me it looks like he's putting in the seed of a case that he knows won't germinate until later. Scenario 4 I could see happening, but I see Jitsu as way more likely to flip Mafia. The train of people voting for Jackal screams bandwagon. I'm not changing my vote. First of all, there is a difference between responding to people in the thread when they ask me something, and continuing to talk about something that doesn't help the town. See what you are doing right now? You're responding. It's a main component to conversation, or discussion. Coming up with a bullshit case that I kept going on about "policy" when I tried to reiterate a large number of times that instead of enforcing a policy, we should hold people accountable, is putting words in my mouth. If anything, you're bringing this shit up more, after "2/3 of the Day Cycle" is actually up, since the last time I spoke of it was five hours into the game. Stop trying to dramatize shit and make it look much worse then it actually is. Secondly, I could care less if you have never seen a posting mistake lead to a lynch. That's part of the reason there's no editing in forum mafia. Right? But then again, you come to the attempt of trying to be aggressive, by saying I don't want to do any work. Is it better then coming out and making a case that is 100% incorrect? Yes. I think my point is an extremely valid one, more so then a simple "He was answering other peoples concerns about his idea, so he must be scum." JubJubJubJub.Everyone is saying that Jackal's case was based on meta. He's playing very similar to how I saw him play in Storm. He flipped town. That was one reason I didn't vote for him.
I am aware that there is a semantic, English language difference between responding to something, and continuing to talk about said topic, but you are COMPLETELY side-stepping my point, which is that 1. adherance to policy lynching is scummy, and 2. talking about policy lynching (responding or not responding) is scummy. I'm bringing this up more because that's why I find you scummy, broski.
You posted about this LAL stuff March 11/12, which I saw as 2/3 of day cycle. If you want to go to the PRECISE, EXACT hour count you didn't drone on THAT long about the topic, but like I said, it doesn't change the fact that the majority of your posts have no direction. And saying I'm dramatizing shit? You're playing it down; you weren't talking about LAL for ONLY the first 5 hours into the game -.-
Lastly, my stating that "I have never seen a posting mistake lead to a lynch" isn't me saying that I simply have never seen it. I'm saying that it's a TERRIBLE, GOD AWFUL case, that only people not reading carefully, or eager to sheep would legitimately believe in. Considering that you aren't acting like a jubjub, I conclude that you made a fake ass case.
Questions? anyone that's not Jitsu? no use arguing with someone who's scum.
UGH at that roleclaim, made me lower my opinion of you innocence greatly, jackal. it's WIFOM time gaiz: "oh i got roleblocked sorry shot didn't go off at all", or "oh i dont want to shoot yet i dont have any good scumreads it'll just suicide me". For someone who proclaims in every game that you die early as town, I don't know how you think you are playing pro-town at all.
|
Echelon, if he's roleblocked and hits town he still dies. Meaning if he is roleblocked and hits mafia he will survive and thus it acts as an alignment check.
If he's scum i don't think he'd add that detail because they can still use all 2 KP and the roleblock power so he can just claim RB's but because he said that it makes it significantly harder to do. If he's making the role up he wouldn't include that detail.
|
Pandain voted for me. I expect he'll be PMing me and make a fake roleclaim at any moment now as is usual for him.
|
Hold on a second.
This is a normal game.
Dreamflower does not belong in a normal game. It's a themed role.
HMMMM
|
On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie.
See, the funny thing, is that I never actually wrote, or even implicated that they were all scum. I just wrote that prplhz calling Caller Curu and then Curu coming out with his own case right after looked like it was planned, and asked if they were communicating about it because it looked weird to me. In fact, the first person to draw the implication that I was calling them all scum together... was you.
On March 12 2012 08:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Are you three (Curu, Caller, prplhz) communicating together already? In the space of twenty minutes, all three of you come out with similar cases all on Jackal, and then prplhz thinks the first person was Curu, when it was Caller. Based on the name at the top of the post, and the content of the post, it's pretty hard to mistake what Caller wrote for being Curu. This looks pre-meditated. What gives?
On March 12 2012 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why on earth would scum all make the same case on the same guy in the same time and not just defer it to one person? What a stupid thing to call out, it doesn't mean anything it's just a bandwagon. Mr.Wiggles do you really find it that suspicious?
On March 12 2012 08:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why on earth would scum all make the same case on the same guy in the same time and not just defer it to one person? What a stupid thing to call out, it doesn't mean anything it's just a bandwagon. Mr.Wiggles do you really find it that suspicious? I read it as prplhz knowing that Curu was going to post something on Jackal, so he just called it out without actually reading the post. Caller could or could not be a part of it. It just looks weird to me. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:33 prplhz wrote:
Caller had written short derpy posts so far and then I just saw a big post with Jackal58 in red and I expected a lot more from Curu. I'm never very confident in anything I do, probably just a character trait, so I got giddy when I saw somebody else agree with me and I didn't read his name properly.
I just thought what you thought too by the way, but think it over. Ok, so if you read the post, how could you think it was Curu? The whole thing was pretty much about how Jackal's been responding to Caller, and how Caller was making a crappy case for DrH's lynch. There's even parts in it about how you posted about Caller. The whole thing was written in the first person, too. Like I said, it looks weird.
So now, it looks like you're trying to set up a possible lynch on me, by saying that I've been posting only about mechanics and town strategy, and calling that post a forced and illogical attempt at scum-hunting. However, it was actually yourself who attributed my post to calling them scum. Funny, isn't it?
Hey, look! While I was writing, you did it again:
On March 13 2012 05:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Player A: He made a reading error! He's scum!
JubJub: That makes so much sense....we better lynch him. Only scum would mess up their posts because they have the advantage of coordinating with a team that tells them what and when to post!
I'm assuming that I'm player A, but again, look at how DrH is trying to misrepresent me as calling prplhz and Curu scum, when I didn't write anything of the sort.
How long was it going to be before you tried to make a push for my lynch?
On March 13 2012 05:51 Kurumi wrote:
My Rattata and I need friends.
I am voting for the person who put the least effort into voting Jackal and this is Node. It's D1 and I don't want to lose him. We can verify his claim at any time.
Also
Jackal's Town: He gets roleblocked. Mafia loses 0.5KP every Night.
Jackal's Scum: Thanks to basic math we might work out that he is lying about roleblocks.
I don't think that will work. Jackal will claim roleblocked every night, and we won't be able to tell, because scum can use a cover, and if Jackal claims RB, we wouldn't know the difference.
Also, just to point it out now, the OP implies that the mafia are in possession of KP roles. Each member of the mafia contributes .5 KP, and there's 4 mafia. That's 2 KP to start. The cover ability costs 2.0 KP. That means, that mafia are not naturally able to use the cover ability in conjunction with a kill unless they recruit the traitor without losing any members, which seems unlikely. That implies to me, that the mafia are likely to have some sort of vigilante role, so that they actually have the option of using the cover to hide a kill in the game.
|
I don't think his claim makes any difference for me.
@Kurumi Can you please explain to me why you are mentioning this "Rattata" all the time and what you mean by it?
|
On March 13 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
I see no particular reason to believe or disbelieve Jackal58's claim, it hasn't changed how I think that he's scum.
I'd really like to be around for deadline but I'm going to bed soon. I expect Jackal58 to be dead tomorrow.
@Curu There's probably a role blocker since that's the most common scum role around, and all other common bases are covered with they funky KP powers.
Perfect solution
I shoot you. If you're town I die.
If you're scum you die.
If we both live lynch me and you're guaranteed scum.
Win win.
|
Original Message From Foolishness:
Hey, you're next in line to be hosting a normal game. This is a reminder to get your setup balanced and to get a cohost. There are two games that will be posted before yours so don't make a thread yet, I'll let you know when to do so.
Also, in case you weren't aware, I'm being very strict on what constitutes a "normal" game. Since your game is listed as normal all the roles in your game must be standard, and your game rules must be standard as well (1 or maybe 2 gimmicks is okay though). If you have any questions about what is allowed and what isn't just let me know. If it turns out your game is themed and not normal we will put you at the head of the themed queue and get your game going asap (so do not fret too much).
Let me know if you got any questions. I'm also incredibly busy over the next week so I will go ahead and pass on balancing your game if you were thinking about asking me.
PM I got from Foolishness. 1-2 gimmicks, I would say the Mafia role system is a special gimmick but my understanding of normal games is that all roles must be normal iterations with nothing too crazy.
Dreamflower has been used by the hosts in every game hosted by them so far that was themed but in their normal games Vigilantes have always been the basic version of the role without this special gimmick.
|
Like, Rattata is a pokémon. A rat pokémon. A rat is a traitor.
"Me and my Rattata needs friends" sounds a lot like you're the traitor trying to hint to scum that you're the traitor.
You see what I'm saying? I'm not willing to consider that you're just saying this because you're insane and polish.
|
On March 13 2012 06:03 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. See, the funny thing, is that I never actually wrote, or even implicated that they were all scum. I just wrote that prplhz calling Caller Curu and then Curu coming out with his own case right after looked like it was planned, and asked if they were communicating about it because it looked weird to me. In fact, the first person to draw the implication that I was calling them all scum together... was you. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Are you three (Curu, Caller, prplhz) communicating together already? In the space of twenty minutes, all three of you come out with similar cases all on Jackal, and then prplhz thinks the first person was Curu, when it was Caller. Based on the name at the top of the post, and the content of the post, it's pretty hard to mistake what Caller wrote for being Curu. This looks pre-meditated. What gives? Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why on earth would scum all make the same case on the same guy in the same time and not just defer it to one person? What a stupid thing to call out, it doesn't mean anything it's just a bandwagon. Mr.Wiggles do you really find it that suspicious? Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On March 12 2012 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why on earth would scum all make the same case on the same guy in the same time and not just defer it to one person? What a stupid thing to call out, it doesn't mean anything it's just a bandwagon. Mr.Wiggles do you really find it that suspicious? I read it as prplhz knowing that Curu was going to post something on Jackal, so he just called it out without actually reading the post. Caller could or could not be a part of it. It just looks weird to me. On March 12 2012 08:33 prplhz wrote:
Caller had written short derpy posts so far and then I just saw a big post with Jackal58 in red and I expected a lot more from Curu. I'm never very confident in anything I do, probably just a character trait, so I got giddy when I saw somebody else agree with me and I didn't read his name properly.
I just thought what you thought too by the way, but think it over. Ok, so if you read the post, how could you think it was Curu? The whole thing was pretty much about how Jackal's been responding to Caller, and how Caller was making a crappy case for DrH's lynch. There's even parts in it about how you posted about Caller. The whole thing was written in the first person, too. Like I said, it looks weird. So now, it looks like you're trying to set up a possible lynch on me, by saying that I've been posting only about mechanics and town strategy, and calling that post a forced and illogical attempt at scum-hunting. However, it was actually yourself who attributed my post to calling them scum. Funny, isn't it? Hey, look! While I was writing, you did it again: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Player A: He made a reading error! He's scum!
JubJub: That makes so much sense....we better lynch him. Only scum would mess up their posts because they have the advantage of coordinating with a team that tells them what and when to post! I'm assuming that I'm player A, but again, look at how DrH is trying to misrepresent me as calling prplhz and Curu scum, when I didn't write anything of the sort. How long was it going to be before you tried to make a push for my lynch? Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:51 Kurumi wrote:
My Rattata and I need friends.
I am voting for the person who put the least effort into voting Jackal and this is Node. It's D1 and I don't want to lose him. We can verify his claim at any time.
Also
Jackal's Town: He gets roleblocked. Mafia loses 0.5KP every Night.
Jackal's Scum: Thanks to basic math we might work out that he is lying about roleblocks.
I don't think that will work. Jackal will claim roleblocked every night, and we won't be able to tell, because scum can use a cover, and if Jackal claims RB, we wouldn't know the difference. Also, just to point it out now, the OP implies that the mafia are in possession of KP roles. Each member of the mafia contributes .5 KP, and there's 4 mafia. That's 2 KP to start. The cover ability costs 2.0 KP. That means, that mafia are not naturally able to use the cover ability in conjunction with a kill unless they recruit the traitor without losing any members, which seems unlikely. That implies to me, that the mafia are likely to have some sort of vigilante role, so that they actually have the option of using the cover to hide a kill in the game.
If I attempt to shoot a townie I die. Period. That's how my role PM is written. It states no matter how my shot is blocked I die.
|
Never tried to push for your lynch because I find it worse that people would sheep your point than you actually making it. The fact that other people used it to push prplhz as scum or whatever makes it seem like a set-up.
If you want to be nitpicky then be my guest. Your first attempt at pressure in this game is about pointing out a inconclusive reading error that makes prplhz look more town aligned than anything else. Jitsu is the scum for catching the bait and trying to make a bandwagon of it. You look bad.
What is your point in making a deal of it? Do you even find anyone in this game suspicious? IF you don't think that error was indicative of alignment what do you think of Jitsu who took it to mean exactly that?
By cover you mean the hide flip role correct? I assumed that would be used to hide lynches. That same thing happened in Storm Mafia Day 1.
|
On March 13 2012 06:06 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
I see no particular reason to believe or disbelieve Jackal58's claim, it hasn't changed how I think that he's scum.
I'd really like to be around for deadline but I'm going to bed soon. I expect Jackal58 to be dead tomorrow.
@Curu There's probably a role blocker since that's the most common scum role around, and all other common bases are covered with they funky KP powers. Perfect solution I shoot you. If you're town I die. If you're scum you die. If we both live lynch me and you're guaranteed scum. Win win.
By posting this, you introduce another possibility:
prplhz is town, you shoot, scum block you, lynch you and if you're town, lynch prplhz and he's town.
But you know, it's like whatevs.
|
On March 13 2012 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:06 Jackal58 wrote:On March 13 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
I see no particular reason to believe or disbelieve Jackal58's claim, it hasn't changed how I think that he's scum.
I'd really like to be around for deadline but I'm going to bed soon. I expect Jackal58 to be dead tomorrow.
@Curu There's probably a role blocker since that's the most common scum role around, and all other common bases are covered with they funky KP powers. Perfect solution I shoot you. If you're town I die. If you're scum you die. If we both live lynch me and you're guaranteed scum. Win win. By posting this, you introduce another possibility: prplhz is town, you shoot, scum block you, lynch you and if you're town, lynch prplhz and he's town. But you know, it's like whatevs.
Wouldn't break my heart.
|
On March 13 2012 06:11 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 13 2012 06:06 Jackal58 wrote:On March 13 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
I see no particular reason to believe or disbelieve Jackal58's claim, it hasn't changed how I think that he's scum.
I'd really like to be around for deadline but I'm going to bed soon. I expect Jackal58 to be dead tomorrow.
@Curu There's probably a role blocker since that's the most common scum role around, and all other common bases are covered with they funky KP powers. Perfect solution I shoot you. If you're town I die. If you're scum you die. If we both live lynch me and you're guaranteed scum. Win win. By posting this, you introduce another possibility: prplhz is town, you shoot, scum block you, lynch you and if you're town, lynch prplhz and he's town. But you know, it's like whatevs. Wouldn't break my heart.
Wrong people are people too Jackal.
|
Especially in a normal game I highly doubt the role would be named Dreamflower. That was something used for the highly themed Personality Mafia and Pick Your Power Mafias, the also highly themed Responsibility Mafia had Vigilantes that were versions of Dreamflower but under different names. I really doubt Ver/Incog/Qatol would put such a themed role into a normal game.
I don't think there's any possibility of suicidal Vigilante in a normal game. Let's kill Jackal.
|
Why are we lynching a claimed blue with town KP instead of Jitsu again? Because this is a "normal" game ?
Curu's analysis is BS.
Imagine a scenario in which scum fakes a claim (choosing dreamflower of all things impossible to confirm) and on top of that includes a clause that makes it impossible for them to dodge the lynch by claiming RB.
If Jackal is scum it's highly likely dreamflower was provided to scum as some sort of list of fake claims as is normal in a closed setup which implies that it does exist or may exist in the setup and Curu's speculation on what hosts would or wouldn't do is unfounded.
|
If Jackal is bullshitting we should be able to find out soon. If he is bullshitting then he dies.
Hey フシギソウ leave バタフリー alone!
|
remember in storm mafia when BC and RoL pushed all the claimed blues to get lynched and they were mislynch everytime
|
|
|
Okay, a couple of silly reasons I don't believe Jackal58's claim that people no one mentioned. In chronological order.
dreamflower personally made a plea that people stop calling it dreamflower vigilante and start calling is samurai vigilante or something like that. I don't see why Incognito and Ver wouldn't just abide her since I believe that they're nice people. This is a pretty silly reason.
In PYP:Interesting which was also hosted by Protactinium, there was also a dreamflower role. This didn't work like Jackal58 is saying right now. That role only died if the target flipped town, not if the shooter was blocked or the target was medic saved or somehow didn't flip. This is a not so silly reason.
Overall, everything considered, I don't believe Jackal58's claim and I still think that he's scum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
