EPTAlso it pointed to the fact that you guys should just listen to what I say.
Mr. Wiggles Mini Mafia II - Page 38
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Also it pointed to the fact that you guys should just listen to what I say. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 10 2012 08:50 Probulous wrote: That's patently untrue. Yes you pushed for a Paperscraps lynch but you never defended Adam. When I asked you outright whether you were still suspicious of Adam, you wrote (linky) This post (linky) where you make your case against Paper has only this to say about Adam. So no, you were not pushing against an Adam lynch. You don't get credit for trying to save him because you obviously thought he was scum. As far as I can see the only one who does get some credit is bluelightz. Decon what are your thoughts on Pandain? If it was a normal player, he would be 2nd on my scumlist after paper. However its Pandain who rolls a dice to decide what to do each day: 1. Claim mafia 2. Claim tracker 3. Lurk 4. Spam 5. Lose the game 6. Win the game I've never been able to read him properly, its what makes him a meh town player but a deceptively dangerous mafia player. If I was to go with my gut I'd say town. However the only way to know for sure is when he flips. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On March 10 2012 09:18 deconduo wrote: If it was a normal player, he would be 2nd on my scumlist after paper1. However its Pandain who rolls a dice to decide what to do each day: 1. Claim mafia 2. Claim tracker 3. Lurk 4. Spam 5. Lose the game 6. Win the game I've never been able to read him properly, its what makes him a meh town player but a deceptively dangerous mafia player. If I was to go with my gut I'd say town2. However the only way to know for sure is when he flips. What happened between 1 and 2? You do realise you read is useless right? You're basically saying he is a "meh" town player but if he is mafia we should watch out. Your gut says town but your head says scum. You couldn't be more diplomatic if you tried. I find it really odd that he has made a concerted effort to buddy with you. You have no opinion on this? You're a fat null for me right now and that is not good enough on Day 3. I had you pegged as town but you are not helping us, so please try and provide something useful. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:02 Probulous wrote: What happened between 1 and 2? You do realise you read is useless right? You're basically saying he is a "meh" town player but if he is mafia we should watch out. Your gut says town but your head says scum. You couldn't be more diplomatic if you tried. I find it really odd that he has made a concerted effort to buddy with you. You have no opinion on this? You're a fat null for me right now and that is not good enough on Day 3. I had you pegged as town but you are not helping us, so please try and provide something useful. Its not a read, I'm telling you Pandain is unreadable. He does crazy shit all the time, it has no bearing on his alignment. His fake Tracker claim, him disappearing for a day, him buddying me. That's all typical Pandain play, whether town or mafia. If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. If only one person dies tonight then that will change as it would probably mean no SK and Paper is telling the truth about being vig. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. Yikes! Does this mean I'm dying tonight and you want to look like you had no clue when I flip, or do you have something to back that up? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. If only one person dies tonight then that will change as it would probably mean no SK and Paper is telling the truth about being vig. Those are very strange reads. If I had pick one townie out of everyone here it would be Snarfs. Bluelightz always looks scummy but at least he chose to defy the crowd and not vote for Adam. It's WIFOM but honestly that is the best we can hope for with him. AKCT is likely to be scum based on numbers but the most scummy thing he has done has been lurking which is explained by his head being in need of repair. Anyway since you don't like talking at night, we can discuss this after the flip. Of course if I am no longer here after the flip (or you for that matter) others can continue this conversation. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:42 Probulous wrote: Those are very strange reads. If I had pick one townie out of everyone here it would be Snarfs. Why? He has flip flopped the whole game. Look at this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=25#495 Then this quote: On March 09 2012 07:19 Snarfs wrote: While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list. The just two hours later, he defends Paper and pushes the lynch on Adam instead: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=35#681 Also this comment of his annoyed me: On March 07 2012 04:04 Snarfs wrote: No comment here. I agree, Decon FoSing you was silly. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:25 Snarfs wrote: Yikes! Does this mean I'm dying tonight and you want to look like you had no clue when I flip, or do you have something to back that up? Its posts like this that make me think you are scum. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
I could go into more depth if necessary but he just doesn't look like scum to me. He has been too open and willing to push everyone for little mistakes to be mafia. Changing your mind is not a scummy thing to do if you have a reason for it. I changed my read on Paperscraps. Anyway, that is my read on him. Day in just under an hour right? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:01 deconduo wrote: Why? He has flip flopped the whole game. Look at this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=25#495 Then this quote: The just two hours later, he defends Paper and pushes the lynch on Adam instead: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=35#681 Also this comment of his annoyed me: I have no problem defending myself to try and alleviate your concerns. First off, yes I did flip flop a lot. I voiced my opinions and suspicions as they came across my mind. While I realize this may not have been the best idea, perhaps I should have waited until I had more information on things, you have to appreciate that this is my first game of forum mafia ever. I'm not trying to say that anything suspicious I did can be blamed on this, but certainly I think it justifies my unfiltered responses and comments. Second, I have already stated that I don't see any reason to disbelieve Paper's vig claim. I think that both sides were brought up, mostly by Probulous and Pandain, and in the end, I choose to believe that he is telling the truth. Also, here is the full quote for reference (it is in reference to Pandain being shady): On March 09 2012 07:19 Snarfs wrote: While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list, this is something I can keep coming back to agree on. Notice how when asking for someone else's opinion on Paper, he asks the only other guy to have voted for him today? That's shadddddy. Third, I did think it was silly of you to just claim that Paperscraps was going to be lynched day 2 after he voted you. I didn't see any reasoning for you to FoS him. Finally, I apologize for implying you might be scum when you're being a tough read. However, I thought I would put that thought out there so that if something should happen to me tonight, people would at least consider the option. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Paperscraps + Show Spoiler + As I've stated before, I'm always willing to change my views in light new evidence. Up until day 3, I'll admit, I had quite a bias against Paper, and I was actively looking for flaws in his play. However, I have seen absolutely no reason to disbelieve his vig claim. The vig claim: Paper takes particular interest in the vigilante claim. So much so that it caused me to think he was fishing for a blue role. Makes sense when he claims vig that he was probably trying to call rg out on his bluff. rg who are you shooting tonight? Also, he makes it quite clear from the beginning that he expects a lot out of Jackal. Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler On Sandroba: This quote was brought up as "damning" by both Pandain and Probulous: Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here. However, there are 14 players and up until that point, everyone had been assuming there were at least 2 KP: 1 from mafia and one from SK. Ask yourself if you really expected only a single kill. It makes sense that Sandroba was hit by an SK! He turned out to be mafia and I've been informed that SK goes after mafia first. Now, what about the KP on night 2? What's the missing link? Well, do you think it's so unreasonable that mafia and SK would both want to get rid of a town-sided Palmar? Sure, SK doesn't know Palmar's town, but they know he's not on their team. Who else were they going to kill? There is no reason to try and convince ourselves otherwise if it is the simplest explanation; therefore, we can't assume that they didn't double stack. If we do this, we are allowing ourselves to believe there is one less killer than there could potentially be, and that would probably not be good. My accusation: Paper's first reaction to my accusation is very town. While scum would be happy to lurk and not have people actively playing the game, he was happy that people were attempting analysis. Holy crap this is awesome! People are actually playing the game now. His answers to my accusations were all very towny. He understood that i actually believed he was scum and he tried to clear things up for me, quite patiently. He did not try to misdirect my claims, he did not try to discredit me. Even so, it was clear he was getting exasperated with me. Quite understandably. Conclusion: Paperscraps is our town vigilante. While his shot on Jackal, in hindsight, could have cost us one of our best Day 3 analysts, he had good reasoning in his own mind to take it. Bluelightz + Show Spoiler + This will be a short section. His first (only) useful post that came when he was not under attack was an analysis of a person I am convinced is town (Paperscraps). He never explained his reasoning for thinking Pandain was scummy. I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho. Oh, I forgot to tell I don't find Pandain scummy after I read his filter He claimed rgTS was third party, but also most likely to flip scum. rgTheSchworz - Leaning Third Party Maybe... Right now, I believe rgTS has the largest chance of being scum so I am voting him. His reaction to Misder's flip was... unbelievable? I.... I.... what happened His response to taking pressure was to roll over and die. I don't care If I get lynched, If Town wants to lynch me fine. Know that the mislynch is on you. I could go on... just read his filter. He finally shows up when he has 3 votes on him and is likely to be lynched. And even then it's to provide more excuses. Day 1, I voted for rgTheSchworz because I believed he had the highest chance of flipping so called "scum", I botched up the sentence for voting by saying "scum" and not "third party" like I suspected him to be. I admit, I have been providing excuses for most of the time because im at school for most of the time of the day. And, I start posting at this ridiculous time because I went like School -> Pick-Up Dad -> Pick-Up Mom -> Dinner at a restaurant -> now As I've stated before, based on this one game, I would happily lynch Bluelightz day 1 any other game if he turns out to be town. He has provided NOTHING of use. He has actively contributed to the thread to make it look like he is not lurking with fluff "I'm going to bed" posts. His redemption: Not voting for Adam when Adam was up for lynch. I don’t think that cuts it. Why? Because I don’t think Bluelightz cares who gets lynched, he’s probably an SK. Probulous + Show Spoiler + Everyone else seems to agree on this at this point. I agree  .Pandain + Show Spoiler + There have been some really scummy things. First of all, he bandwagoned on the Sandroba vote after a pitiful attempt to save him. Makes a slip in calling Sandroba “scum” twice as opposed to the SK he thought he was. I don’t actually know if that’s a slip. Do we refer to all anti-town as scum, or just mafia? There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse. But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum Then, during the night of Night 2, he has 7 out of 8 posts that are just fluff. I think the most damning thing about Pandain’s play though, was on Day 3. First, he votes Paperscraps immediately after his blue claim without any logic put behind it at all. His only mention of Paperscraps before this was much earlier in the game when he claimed that he was town, basically for WIFOM reasons (can’t be mafia because they wouldn’t push the same person over and over, can’t be SK because they wouldn’t be that active). Then, without defending his reasoning, he disappears for nearly 2 full days, only to show up 6 hours before the deadline. At that point, he dismisses all the evidence that people have provided against Paper and makes a big fluff post with 2 pointless lists and an excuse for being gone for 24 hours that just DOES NOT match up with his post. Look at what he claims: Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering. Does that make sense given that this is what follows: On March 09 2012 06:16 Pandain wrote: I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role.... This doesn't mean its scum, but it does make us remember that there are now three possibilities for Paperscraps to be: 1. Serial killer. 2. Mafia Vigilante 3. Vigilante Him claiming vigilante in no way makes him town. Rather, we must analyze two things in determining his alignment: 1. His reasoning/motivation behind shooting Jackal 2. His posts/votes this game(Normal Analysis) I'll be posting more once I make sense of everything..... No. It is completely incongruent. After Toast calls him out on this post, he shows up over 2 hours later with his justifications which boil down to calling out Paperscraps on a bunch of things he himself is guilty of. Conclusion: Scum. Oh this is great, I wrote this up about 7 hours before the lynch but he keeps talking. My read on Adam was uncertain. I was uncertain about everyone until i looked at it for like 36 hours, which you guys are like omg lurking. Then im like omg paper is wtf There’s no way you can be certain if you don’t have all the facts! This is so scum. Town would admit that there is a gap in their knowledge but Pandain refuses to admit when he could be wrong. TheToast + Show Spoiler + Everyone else seems to agree on this at this point. I agree .A Killer Cuppa Tea + Show Spoiler + Really tough to get a read on this guy. When he does post, I feel he explains his actions very well. Unfortunately, he doesn’t post a lot. His excuses have been a laptop dying and a mild concussion. I don’t think there’s enough evidence either way as to whether he is scum or town. He says that hopefully once he gets home he’ll be able to contribute. That’d be nice. deconduo + Show Spoiler + Really doesn’t have a lot of substance posts this game. Has proven in the past that he’s not afraid to bus a scum buddy night 1, bussing Sandroba would probably be just as easy if not easier on night 2 so I can’t see how that could be evidence for him being town. See decon vs. Annul in TL Mafia 37: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=25#490 Hops on Adam’s bandwagon after reiterating points that have already been made, but what else was there to say about Adam at that point? Doesn’t really say whether he’s mafia or not. Conclusion: I’m leaning scum on him. There just hasn’t been much substance, but he has been trying to make himself look active. Conclusions + Show Spoiler + I’d be happy lynching Pandain today. I think Bluelightz is a possible SK candidate given that pretty much everyone has tried to lynch him at one point or another but he’s still around not contributing. When Pandain flips red, until further evidence is provided, I would be happy with either a deconduo or AKCT lynch, preference being given to lynching deconduo. And most importantly + Show Spoiler + A very special thank you to Probulous  Whether you’re town or scum, you still think I'm semi competent and helped me get my points through unblocked. Thanks man. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Day 4: The Fall ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GlGZe.jpg) Paperscraps was asleep in his hammock, when he thought he heard someone sneaking towards him in the dark. He opened one eye a tiny fraction, just enough to see, and slowly inched his hand towards his waist, where his dagger was tucked beneath his belt. As he finally grasped the handle of the blade, he listened closely, and tried to make out any movement in the near-pitch dark of the cabin in which he and several others slept. However, he heard nothing but the regular breathing and gentle snoring of his friends. Satisfied that all was well, he closed his eyes and moved his hand away from his weapon. Then a pistol cocked. Paperscraps instantly drew his blade, and tried to leap out of the hammock in which he lay, but he was too slow. The pistol shot woke the others in the room, but by the time they had lit a lantern to see what had happened, there was no trace of the shooter, only the corpse of Paperscraps, dripping blood onto the floor. Meanwhile, Pandain sat in the ship's crow's nest, keeping on the look-out for "targets of oppurtunity", as the Captain liked to call the merchant ships they raided. With him, he had several oranges, which he had stolen from the Captain's food cache for his own personal consumption. He was content, sitting at the top of the ship, watching the sun as it rose in the early hours of the dawn, and eating his fruit. The only annoyance he had was that he had forgotten to bring a knife with him to cut the oranges. The sound of another person climbing the rigging behind him broke him out of his thoughts. He assumed it was the next man to replace him on watch, and addressed him without turning around, "Hey, friend, you're a little early, but that's alright. You wouldn't 'appen to 'ave a knife on you, would'ya? I nicked these oranges from the Captain, and if you could lend me something to cut them with, I'd let you 'ave some. What'ya think?" Pandain heard the other person pause for a second. Then, he heard a cool voice say, "Well, yes, I do have a knife. It's not for oranges, though.". Confused, Pandain began to turn around, and that was when he felt the blade of the knife slide into his back. He gasped, and that was the last sound to leave his lips, as he was thrust from the crow's nest, and gravity cruelly pulled him towards the deck and his death, many feet below. Paperscraps the Vigilante has been shot! Pandain the Townie has fallen to his death! Day 4 has begun! You have until 12 KST, 48 hours from now to vote for the lynch! | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
 ##Vote Bluelightz I've explained this already, and given the flip I'm going to leave it here while we figure things out. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
 I guess this confirms the existence of a SK then. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
am here now gonna read up on whos left. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
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