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On March 02 2012 02:50 Alderan wrote:Ok guys, sorry about the absence, was going to take the afternoon off after my last post but then I got caught up with some GF shit all night last night. Let's see what we got here: I think I can address all of Sloosh and Jekyll's worries about me in one sentence: A person can have more than one case active at a time, especially when the town is as inactive as this one.Look, I posted a couple cases of people I find scummy at the end of the night/beginning of the day period to see what everyone thinks about the cases. Sloosh I used to think you were just playing poorly (while ridiculing my play nonetheless) but now I realize you are just misleading the town to cast suspicion on me. Show nested quote +Alderan puts up a case against k2hd, but as Hyde points out he drops case and suspects Janaan. I did not drop anything, I'm suspicious of multiple people, ya know, because there are more than one scum. Then you had this post: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 15:52 slOosh wrote:
Alright, gotta sleep now. DYH I don't think right now holding off too much on your case is the best choice.
Right now our votes are spread between 4 suspects, and it is critical that we rally and focus on the best possible choice. It could be the case that more than 1 of them are mafia, but even then we should be unified in which one to lynch.
Thinking about our friends in alternate timezones, they may not be able to read your case and we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily and I think in this situation a soft deadline would also be helpful.
But I trust your judgement - we need content from everyone and not just a few of us.
I just want us to be mindful of the situation that we are in. What in the hell does that even mean? Again you continue to try to discredit my name, my cases, and my contributions for seemingly no reason. You already admit that you don't find me as suspicious as you originally did with your first case, so why the blatant cut down.
Its a really big jump to say that my general agreement of Hyde's case on you is intentionally misleading the town to cast suspicion on you. I agree with the points and lean mafia on you - how is openly expressing my stance misleading?
And no I'm not discrediting your name in the second quote. Read the whole post in context. We are dangerously close to the lynch deadline with votes spread among multiple people, and I'm emphasizing the need to rally and make a decision. The bolded part is because I think some people (especially the newer ones) are timid and want to hear all the voices and cases out in the open and discussed, but I'm being realistic and pointing out that time is not a luxury.
It's not a blatant cut down and I think you are starting to take everything I say about you personally. Please look objectively.
Please read that second paragraph everyone. We need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again. This cannot be.
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On March 02 2012 03:11 Alderan wrote:
Your vote is on gumshoe, would you consider switching it to k2hd?
I'm really inclined not to. Why?
I gave consideration to it because I thought DYH had a case and wanted some feedback. It is less than 4 hours to the lynch deadline and still no explanation for his vote. I don't have as strong a read on him as I do gumshoe, so there really isn't reason to switch over unless people can give me reason to.
And what's with the straw man arguments on phagga? Read his filter and it is very clear that he has expressed issues with gumshoe prior to his vote, and his change was his effort to help us consolidate today's lynch.
What the heck nttea? Can you explain yourself before casting votes in secret?
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On March 02 2012 08:46 ghost_403 wrote:
I'm going to assume that nttea has a good reason for that, and he'd better spit it out rather quickly. Also, he's not the only one with a ninja vote. XD
?? Did I miss something?
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On March 02 2012 08:52 ghost_403 wrote:
He did it top of last page
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On March 02 2012 08:55 Alderan wrote:
I've got a party tonight, will be unable to be here for the end of the vote. Is gumshoe the only shot of a lynch we have?
As it is it looks like its between k2hd or gumshoe (3 votes on each).
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Alright guys no time to wallow. I know I've been much less directing this game but seriously the lack of activity / contributions will become the death of us.
On March 02 2012 15:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Let's not waste this night. If you have any things you have noted about people's play that you want to ask them about, I suggest we use this night time for that. Save scumlists and hard suspicions for tomorrow when they can't be used against us with the mafia hit.
This is absolutely right. We should immediately pick up discussion - rereading over D2 we didn't make best use of our time early on due to the focus on the night action. We are essentially in a situation where we lack information, resulting in at best soft cases - we need information and the only way we can get it is through posting.
nttea:
On February 29 2012 13:42 nttea wrote:
How about default lynch on alderan If we don't get any better ideas? I feel he worked extremely hard (but trying to not make it obvious) on making sure we didn't get a lynch done last day...
What changed nttea? You voted just to escape the modkill. It's ok if you are unsure of your reads and such, it is more important that you post something so we know more about your alignment. Why the switch on k2hd? You did it pretty early on - is it that you think DYH & Alderan had better cases than me, zelblade and phagga? Why do you think they were better?
k2hd:
On March 02 2012 09:18 k2hd wrote:Show nested quote +Post by k2hd
I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him. I had already said after phagga's post, that you had less pressure on you than chocolate, so it was safer for you to make such a claim when the chance of you being lynched was lower. As for this: Show nested quote +K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this.
His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons:
- He thinks Chocolate is town.
- Ghost voted for Chocolate.
- Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially)
- Therefore Ghost is scum.
What? It doesn't work like that.
##vote K2hd I'd rather you not devalue my post like this. I voted for ghost because of his day 1 posting, AND his recent interactions with phagga concerning ghost. You may argue that what I said about day 1 was already covered, but not day 2 posts. I have read filters, and my vote stays on ghost. I'm willing to take the chance that gumshoe flips red and I look even more suspicious than I already do, but I do not think he is scum. Phagga + Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 01:44 phagga wrote:Generally: I don't care if this is anyones first game on TL Mafia. This is a newbie game, noone has a lot of experience with TL Mafia. This game is here to learn, so please stop making excuses like that. I have already skipped several paragraphs who start with that, and I will continue to skip them in the future. DoYouHas: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Alright people, this is getting a little ridiculous. We can't let this thread stagnate midday.
Ghost and Phagga, do you agree with how I handled NightFury? No, I don't agree. You accused him of not generating content. He agrees, but then only writes an excuse, and you are already giving him a free pass. Now there is no more pressure on him to generate real content, which is what would have given us more information on him. You left him of the hook way to early. Instead, I would have liked to see you call him out on his confession of not generating content, and pressure him more at least until he starts generating content. I noticed several times that people don't want to pressure someone anymore after the target went from scummy to towny. Why not? If you already started, pressure some more. Townies don't need to be afraid to get pressured. After all, they have no reason to lie, and if they write what they think and observe, than they have nothing to fear. And it will generate more information which will enable more people to judge better if someone is town or not. But if you let Nightfury of the hook like that, and nightfury gets lynched anyway and flips red, I will immediatly get suspicious about your reluctance to pressure him after making a case on him. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Who is your greatest suspicion right now?
- Chocolate - Gumshoe - Alderan k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote:Show nested quote +I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. This is just not true. On the first day, my vote was on Chocolate the whole day. After this vote + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 07:36 NightFury wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Chocolate there were 5 votes on Chocolate for roughly 4 hours, with 8 votes he would have gotten lynched. I wrote the following two posts during those 3 hours: + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 08:36 phagga wrote:
So, folks, I will be offline for the night in about 20 minutes. So far my vote stays on Chocolate. I have read a few interesting things about others (specially steveling), but so far nothing could convince me to switch my vote to another person. I still think Chocolate is our best lynch. On February 28 2012 10:00 phagga wrote:
I'm off to bed now. My vote stays on chocolate. That was 2 hours before the deadline. There was still the possibility that he would get lynched. 40 minutes before the deadline JekyllAndHyde unvoted Chocolate. Chocolate: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote:To k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote:I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote:
You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night. Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? 1Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghostI currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. 2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate 3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they areGhost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote:
You see, this is how I see it.
We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that.
Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory. 2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched.3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 21:50 Chocolate wrote:
Don't have much time to post but my style last game was very passive and lurky, k2hd. Phagga 1b is a good point, 2 is looking pretty wifom, and I'm glad to hear about 3.
K2 I'm really glad to see you posting. Keep it up I disagree. Scum does not want to be in the spotlight. People in the spotlight get analyzed more, and scum has to play a role / lie to look townie, so the chance that people will reveal their true role is higher. You will not often find scum that is going to play aggresively, and most of the time they won't get far with it because they have to hide too much. I think there's some confusion here, I'm talking about the vote count and low chance of mislynching chocolate on day 2, and how hard you were STILL pushing chocolate up until now, with the change to gumshoe. Notice I typed in the present tense in that post.
What are your current thoughts on Alderan himself (rather than the case)? Or DYH?
What do you think of phagga and ghost's alignments? Do you think they are townies making a mistake or mafia trying to pull off a mislynch on Chocolate?
NightFury:
On March 02 2012 13:30 NightFury wrote:@Chocolate - I'm not completely certain what to make of your statements. If I'm interpreting them incorrectly, can you be more clear please? Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 11:04 Chocolate wrote:
You didn't directly say that I'm more scummy. You said I'm the most suspicious and that i'm toxic- that's different from null.
I don't see a problem with this? I said you were most suspicious alongside Ghost relative to everyone else at that moment though. Not the most suspicious of everyone. I called your play toxic because at the time I did not believe randomly voting for individuals was a good method. In terms of method, we've been over it before. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 11:04 Chocolate wrote:
I could address issues too, no? I never saw why you thought I was scummier than him, all of a sudden you change from ghost being the most scummy to me after his explanation.
Two things. First, nowhere in my reasoning for you at this point did I say you couldn't address issues. Secondly, my reason for dropping Ghost in favour of you has nothing to do with addressing issues. I went after you for posting that you wanted to induce panic - which I strongly disagreed with at that time. Question for you though. Why do you think phagga is scum? From your filter, all I can see is that he has been focused on you as your sole reason. I don't believe that's convincing for him being scum. Anything else you'd like to add? That's unfortunate about gumshoe. Back to the drawing board. I'm out for the night!
Both you and Chocolate should stop this - its extremely counter productive and unless you are fishing for information to build a case I recommend both of you drop this.
What do you think of the k2hd cases and k2hd himself? You said leaning scum last time someone asked you - has that changed over the course of this last day? What is your current read on ghost?
DoYouHas:
On March 02 2012 09:56 DoYouHas wrote:When I look at gumshoe, I don't like the way he went after zelblade for claiming roleblock when that was exactly what zelblade should have done. However, the reason I think k2hd is the better choice for us to lynch today is because gumshoe's play does not look planned or careful, it does not look like he is playing to an agenda. I accept the fact that gumshoe has a certain style, and it is entirely possible that he is using that to mask his scum play. That is why I'm willing to vote for him if it comes down to it. But the gumshoe of this game looks a lot like the gumshoe of SNMM7. I don't see him as acting particularly anti-town with the exception of dealing with zelblade and asking for a replacement. k2hd on the other hand makes a few posts every so often. They do have the sense of being planned and careful. He fits the profile for me of someone who is staying off the radar, while spreading lots of weak suspicion around. I also really don't like how he treated his vote in this post + Show Spoiler +On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote:Right then. First off, FourFace. His posts sound like a town player who is very enthusiastic about playing things his way, and having fun with his writing style, hence the kooky posting, so I agree that we should take the heat off of him just for now... As for chocolate and ghost, I must say I have my suspicions regarding them as well. I'm not going to quote too much because I think others have done enough of that already while I've been away. Ghost seems VERY insistent on lynching. He's even against using FOS and wants to straight out lynch anyone he considers suspicious, as some have already pointed out. Then, when FourFace places a vote on jekyl just to "pressure" them, ghost posts this: Show nested quote +@fourface That's not how you apply pressure on someone to post. This is how you apply pressure on someone to post. It doesn't really say much about WHY FourFace is doing it wrong, and conveniently places another vote on jekyl. Then, FourFace presents himself as a better, and more possible target for a mislynch. Ghost accuses FourFace of scummy/crazy play, and it seems to me like he is out to get the easy mislynch again. Does he actually just think that FourFace is playing a very weird and seemingly nonsensical style? Maybe, but he has yet to unvote FourFace in the voting thread. Now for chocolate. I don't have as much to go on for chocolate aside from what's already been said, but I think it's interesting that he is voting for FourFace with ghost as well, perhaps hoping to start some sort of bandwagon? This part of his post: I'm going to vote for you for the time being because that was really weird. If you sufficiently explain yourself and start to make sense I will unvote you.Seems like a way of joining ghost in starting the bandwagon, while at the same time giving him the option of pulling out if the bandwagoning fails. I'm just not sure why you would actually put your vote into the voting thread at this stage, instead of just posting the thought and leaving it at that till FourFace actually DID post more so he could decide. To be fair to him though, he (seemingly) hasn't had the chance to read why posters such as alderaan and jekylandhyde don't think FourFace is scum yet. For now, I will remain suspicious of these 2 without voting yet, for reasons that will be explained below. I'm also very curious though to know why everyone is ignoring igabod. Up until now, his contributions have been these 2 posts: Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 00:04 igabod wrote:
I just finished reading the thread. I agree with lynching someone day one. I also think that the fake voting deadline could work. Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 00:24 igabod wrote:
I will be available most of the time on Saturday and Sunday. I won't have much time on Tuesdays. I have about 3 hours when I can post on Tuesday. All he has done is agree with what has been said so far (without even bothering to put it into his own words, or back his agreement up with his own logic), and since then we have heard nothing from him. Now I should say that this will likely be my last post from now until the voting deadline (the real one) because I have to head off to bed soon for class tomorrow, and will be in uni when the deadline is up. I have pretty much no breaks tomorrow either in between classes. Because of this, I will vote for a no lynch for today only. Since I will be away for so long, I'd rather not vote for a lynch on someone who posts a proper defense when they wake up, or if a better target presents themself and I'm not available to change my vote. Just to confirm, can I ACTUALLY vote for a no lynch, or does that only occur when there is no majority? I will actually probably come online tomorrow during a lecture just to check this post (and change my vote if I have to), wouldn't want to be modkilled for a stupid mistake like thisJust fyi, If I cannot vote for a no lynch, I will be voting for igabod no matter what, because I won't have time to go through posts properly in a lecture to consider what everyone has to say. It seems like a safe enough option for now because I am sure I will not get a majority on him anyway at this stage, so this vote shouldn't have an effect on tomorrow's lynch. I'll be able to post more as I have Wednesday and Thursday off (GMT +11). ##vote: no lynch It shows a lack of trust in his own reads and a lack of value in his vote that he would try for a no-lynch before anything of the sort was on the table late in the day. If I put myself in that position I would vote for my strongest suspicion at the time (as a townie) EVERY TIME. If nothing else it gives the rest of the thread a jumping off point while you are away. Instead he chose the road of staying out of everyone's way.
Did you think that k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe?
Do you still think that he is a good lynch suspect for tomorrow?
TestSubject893:
On March 02 2012 06:41 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:39 gumshoe wrote:Seeing as lurking is the theme of this game I've conducted an analysis of this games biggest lurker! To start heres some fun fact, in his grand total of 11 posts test has stated that he is a newb on five diffrent occaisons, each time with more emphasis than the last. + Show Spoiler +This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person
Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play
Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase?
I think you are misunderstanding the rules. (Or I am, lol.)
Is he claiming blue? I don't think he is. Everybody can calm down. (I think. I an after all the newbiest one here it seems, so I may be eating these words.) The second interesting thing is that test has not said one original thing, period, everything he's commented on has either been irrelevant or has been stated by someone else first. First of all, calling be the game's biggest lurker is blatantly untrue. nttea has only 3 posts, and has not posted reads, which I have. When you consider the amount of time I've been in the game (missing the first 60 or so hours), my posts per play time is comparable to JekyllAndHyde, phagga, NightFury, slOosh and k2hd. Concerning my statements about my inexperience: I legitimately believe that I am the newbiest player in this game. I have never played online before, which seemingly most other players have, and the "meta-game" of the people I've played live with before seems entirely different than it is in this game, almost certainly because of the increased length of days and nights. I've been having a really hard time analyzing any of this, because all of the things I knew before and I thought might apply to this game do not. I added those statements in hope that if I was do something wrong, people would correct and help me. Naturally, my difficulty analyzing the game has led me to not be able to come to many strong conclusions. Additionally, my joining the game late led to much of what I had to say already being said, as much of my time was spend on earlier content that had already been discussed.
Concerning my vote today: Like I stated earlier, my early instinct was to vote for gumshoe, and despite good reasons brought up since then to vote for k2hd, gumshoe's lack of defense for his apparent blue-fishing have caused my opinion to stay the same. Additionally, although I had already made up my mind, his "analysis" of me began with false claims and harshly negative tone that were seemingly only an attempt to unfairly defame me.
What is your stance on k2hd? You said that gumshoe was a better lynch choice based on his actions. How strong is your k2hd read and why?
Please don't quote this post - or if you are, remember to spoiler or edit it out so only the section pertaining to you is there.
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Stance on Nttea Lynch:
On March 03 2012 01:31 ghost_403 wrote:
I agree with zelblade, a nttea lynch is not optimal town play. If nttea had ninja voted for gumshoe, I would be calling for his lynch right now. But he didn't; he threw it on a random player. As far as I can see, his vote had no benefit for the scum, without going into full WIFOM mode.
That's not why a nttea lynch isn't optimal. It is wifom to say what benefits scum or not because we don't know k2hd's alignment. A nttea lynch is a bad idea because it doesn't pressure anyone and allows easy "contribution" - I pointed it out previously when I explained why I held back on my opinions
On March 01 2012 01:55 slOosh wrote:
First off is the flushing of lurkers. I held off on commenting because of this exact reason, and we see nttea come out, sheeping my case. Could be a newbie townie unsure of how to contribute or a mafia supporting a mislynch, or a mafia busing a teammate under scrutiny to take attention off of themselves. Its good that people are keeping watch of everyone, and a few people have called him out. Please stay on that, and for everyone else keep an eye on that (it is counter productive if we all turn our attention to that since if case he is newbie town we just wasted the whole day, and it might turn into easy bandwagon on him, and we don't need whole town to pressure lurkers)
It is far from optimal as we are using one of our strongest tools - the lynch - and wasting it with all possible discussions and content by going straight for nttea. Even if he does flip scum (which I doubt), we would have wasted so much time and attention and it would be like a day 1 all over again.
That being said, nttea please continue posting and clarify your posts. What exactly is your stance on Alderan?
What do you think about k2hd and DYH?
DYH:
Before D2 I've been on the fence with DYH as on one side it does look like he is trying to contribute and drive discussion, but on the other he is flip flopping a lot and seems really unsure of his reads.
I understand your desire to lynch the hard lurker - but I really don't want N2 and D3 to be dominated by discussion of the validity of policy lynches.
My questions for you still remain:
Did you think that k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe?
Do you still think that he is a good lynch suspect for tomorrow?
We need as much info as we can get and we can pick up discussion on nttea lynch if you still feel inclined to do during D3, but it doesn't make sense to do it now at night since you could die and mafia might WIFOM stuff up if your reads and stances aren't clear.
Chocolate:
On March 02 2012 21:44 Chocolate wrote:
I continue to be suspicious of phagga because he was interested in lynching me on day 1 and lynched a town on day2
You've spent most of the game pointing out how suspicious of phagga you are, but haven't actually built a case that we can work with. If you are so sure of it, then please be clear instead of making little jabs here and there. I personally don't see the logic in how someone wanting to lynch you makes them necessarily scum, especially if you admit that you acted in a dubious manner D1 to generate content, and 8 people lynched town D2 - that means at least 4+ town there.
I'm calling you out right now as all you've had are these weak interactions with people (NightFury, k2hd, ghost and DYH).
If you are suspicious, bring a case to the plate, instead of pointing fingers.
NightFury and TestSubject 893:
I'm still waiting. You guys haven't produced much for us in terms of original content, pulling the newbie card (intentionally or not doesn't matter). It is N2 and plenty of content. Please address my questions and the new things that have occured in the thread.
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On March 03 2012 23:14 zelblade wrote:
I also love how sloosh ignores my case on DYH completely, not giving a firm opinion and just saying "was on the fence". I would expect him to either attack, agree with, or at least say that he would take a closer look. Give a harder stance if you are town please. Stop flip-flopping.
I was taking a closer look with the very questions I asked. The reason why I didn't give a firm opinion is because it could
very well have resulted in falsified or no information if I had called DYH scum and then asked him questions about k2hd.
Everyone seems to think I've been lurking or something this game as I haven't come out with a big case.
The reasons I left said - not only with DYH but I've been probing for relevant info for my cases.
.
Here are the final voting lists for D1 and D2 and the filters for the players.
I will be referencing them rather than quoting to keep my post legible.
My case jumpstarts off people's interactions with k2hd, whom I believe is town.
Now I'm not going to spend the bulk of the case why I think he is town since that isn't the focus. Finding scum is, and with 4 of them still alive, interactions between players will become stronger and stronger indicators of alignments.
That being said, I'm almost certain he is town - look at his recent posts.
He has been more open, willing to answer direct questions (look at my filter - my questions basically revolve around k2hd and several times before that I've been poking him to see his responses). He is transparent and eager to share his reads and opinions, and I attribute his early game actions as shyness.
With that I've pegged down these two players (I venture the other two amongst ghost, choco, nightfury and test, but haven't had a chance to look into it yet. We need focus anyways, posting full lists is redundant.)
Alderan
DoYouHas
I'll be posting why I think they are mafia first based on their relation with k2hd, then later as individuals.
Now open up the D1 and D2 lynch posts, and look for a trend. Where do the votes fall?
D1:
I've already expressed how I didn't like the igabod switch. on him, k2hd desires a no lynch first, and barring that wants to lynch a lurker (which a unsure newbie town would do). DYH (a more experienced player) hops on and tries to get something started, with his reasoning
On February 28 2012 09:47 DoYouHas wrote:
We don't know igabod is getting modkilled. There is every chance that he will be replaced. Because of this I still think that he is our best lynch option.
I forget who but someone already pointed out how it doesn't make sense to vote like this. Steveling (test's predecessor) also hops on. I am inclined to think this was a potential bandwagon as it didn't seem like Chocolate was getting lynched.
D2:
Both Alderan and DYH are on k2hd. The gumshoe lynch was set, and yet there was reluctance on both players to lock in the vote. Wishy washy.
Now look at their cases against k2hd:
On March 02 2012 03:01 Alderan wrote:
Now for who we should vote for....
K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this.
His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons:
- He thinks Chocolate is town.
- Ghost voted for Chocolate.
- Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially)
- Therefore Ghost is scum.
What? It doesn't work like that.
##vote K2hd
Totally weak. It is devalues k2hd's posting (so that people are less likely to listen), and sets up a straw man argument, one which k2hd addresses adequately here. His prior post here is also nitpicking through the filter, finding anything and painting it in an unfavorable light - a biased PBPA (which he has done before with Chocolate here.)
On March 02 2012 09:16 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:45 slOosh wrote:
I'm really inclined not to. Why?
I gave consideration to it because I thought DYH had a case and wanted some feedback. It is less than 4 hours to the lynch deadline and still no explanation for his vote. I don't have as strong a read on him as I do gumshoe, so there really isn't reason to switch over unless people can give me reason to.
Oh crap, I forgot I promised to make that case. ugh.... sorry everyone. I really do see k2hd as a better lynch than gumshoe atm, but as I mentioned before gum is on my list of acceptable lynches for today. The main thing is we don't no-lynch again. I'll try and type up a quick side by side comparison of those two ASAP, but I need to finish the dishes first.
On March 02 2012 09:56 DoYouHas wrote:k2hd on the other hand makes a few posts every so often. They do have the sense of being planned and careful. He fits the profile for me of someone who is staying off the radar, while spreading lots of weak suspicion around. I also really don't like how he treated his vote in this post + Show Spoiler +On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote:Right then. First off, FourFace. His posts sound like a town player who is very enthusiastic about playing things his way, and having fun with his writing style, hence the kooky posting, so I agree that we should take the heat off of him just for now... As for chocolate and ghost, I must say I have my suspicions regarding them as well. I'm not going to quote too much because I think others have done enough of that already while I've been away. Ghost seems VERY insistent on lynching. He's even against using FOS and wants to straight out lynch anyone he considers suspicious, as some have already pointed out. Then, when FourFace places a vote on jekyl just to "pressure" them, ghost posts this: Show nested quote +@fourface That's not how you apply pressure on someone to post. This is how you apply pressure on someone to post. It doesn't really say much about WHY FourFace is doing it wrong, and conveniently places another vote on jekyl. Then, FourFace presents himself as a better, and more possible target for a mislynch. Ghost accuses FourFace of scummy/crazy play, and it seems to me like he is out to get the easy mislynch again. Does he actually just think that FourFace is playing a very weird and seemingly nonsensical style? Maybe, but he has yet to unvote FourFace in the voting thread. Now for chocolate. I don't have as much to go on for chocolate aside from what's already been said, but I think it's interesting that he is voting for FourFace with ghost as well, perhaps hoping to start some sort of bandwagon? This part of his post: I'm going to vote for you for the time being because that was really weird. If you sufficiently explain yourself and start to make sense I will unvote you.Seems like a way of joining ghost in starting the bandwagon, while at the same time giving him the option of pulling out if the bandwagoning fails. I'm just not sure why you would actually put your vote into the voting thread at this stage, instead of just posting the thought and leaving it at that till FourFace actually DID post more so he could decide. To be fair to him though, he (seemingly) hasn't had the chance to read why posters such as alderaan and jekylandhyde don't think FourFace is scum yet. For now, I will remain suspicious of these 2 without voting yet, for reasons that will be explained below. I'm also very curious though to know why everyone is ignoring igabod. Up until now, his contributions have been these 2 posts: Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 00:04 igabod wrote:
I just finished reading the thread. I agree with lynching someone day one. I also think that the fake voting deadline could work. Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 00:24 igabod wrote:
I will be available most of the time on Saturday and Sunday. I won't have much time on Tuesdays. I have about 3 hours when I can post on Tuesday. All he has done is agree with what has been said so far (without even bothering to put it into his own words, or back his agreement up with his own logic), and since then we have heard nothing from him. Now I should say that this will likely be my last post from now until the voting deadline (the real one) because I have to head off to bed soon for class tomorrow, and will be in uni when the deadline is up. I have pretty much no breaks tomorrow either in between classes. Because of this, I will vote for a no lynch for today only. Since I will be away for so long, I'd rather not vote for a lynch on someone who posts a proper defense when they wake up, or if a better target presents themself and I'm not available to change my vote. Just to confirm, can I ACTUALLY vote for a no lynch, or does that only occur when there is no majority? I will actually probably come online tomorrow during a lecture just to check this post (and change my vote if I have to), wouldn't want to be modkilled for a stupid mistake like thisJust fyi, If I cannot vote for a no lynch, I will be voting for igabod no matter what, because I won't have time to go through posts properly in a lecture to consider what everyone has to say. It seems like a safe enough option for now because I am sure I will not get a majority on him anyway at this stage, so this vote shouldn't have an effect on tomorrow's lynch. I'll be able to post more as I have Wednesday and Thursday off (GMT +11). ##vote: no lynch It shows a lack of trust in his own reads and a lack of value in his vote that he would try for a no-lynch before anything of the sort was on the table late in the day. If I put myself in that position I would vote for my strongest suspicion at the time (as a townie) EVERY TIME. If nothing else it gives the rest of the thread a jumping off point while you are away. Instead he chose the road of staying out of everyone's way.
On March 03 2012 04:10 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:25 slOosh wrote:DYH:Before D2 I've been on the fence with DYH as on one side it does look like he is trying to contribute and drive discussion, but on the other he is flip flopping a lot and seems really unsure of his reads. I understand your desire to lynch the hard lurker - but I really don't want N2 and D3 to be dominated by discussion of the validity of policy lynches. My questions for you still remain:
Did you think that k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe?
Do you still think that he is a good lynch suspect for tomorrow?
We need as much info as we can get and we can pick up discussion on nttea lynch if you still feel inclined to do during D3, but it doesn't make sense to do it now at night since you could die and mafia might WIFOM stuff up if your reads and stances aren't clear. No I didn't think k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe. He was someone that I found suspicious when I was making my case against NightFury because he met many of the scum standards I was using to accuse NightFury. I do think he is a good suspect for tomorrow.
He points a finger at k2hd (right after his case against nightfury) citing that his reasons are similar, forgets to post his case until I bring it up, assumes k2hd is mafia because he isn't acting like he himself would (note that this is after rescinding his case on nightfury, built on many of the similar prefaces), and ends by saying that k2hd is a good suspect for tomorrow without any further reads.
Alderan
Most of my N1, D2 was spent pressuring Alderan.
He is very defensive when I keep up the pressure. I note that I kept my suspicion on him because he didn't respond to Hyde's case, and he gets really defensive.
On March 02 2012 02:50 Alderan wrote:Then you had this post: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 15:52 slOosh wrote:
Alright, gotta sleep now. DYH I don't think right now holding off too much on your case is the best choice.
Right now our votes are spread between 4 suspects, and it is critical that we rally and focus on the best possible choice. It could be the case that more than 1 of them are mafia, but even then we should be unified in which one to lynch.
Thinking about our friends in alternate timezones, they may not be able to read your case and we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily and I think in this situation a soft deadline would also be helpful.
But I trust your judgement - we need content from everyone and not just a few of us.
I just want us to be mindful of the situation that we are in. What in the hell does that even mean? Again you continue to try to discredit my name, my cases, and my contributions for seemingly no reason. You already admit that you don't find me as suspicious as you originally did with your first case, so why the blatant cut down.
On March 02 2012 03:11 Alderan wrote:
Hyde's case COMPLETELY revolved around me "dropping cases" which was clearly not the situation. I made two cases during the night period. That's it.
Please look objectively?
"we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily".... There is only one way to take this sentence, regardless of the fluff you just posted above.
I understand we need more contributions, and we need to come to a come to consensus which is why I'm dropping this fight with you.
Your vote is on gumshoe, would you consider switching it to k2hd?
Note that hypocritical backlash - he calls my post fluff while accusing me of trying to discredit him.
So I leave him alone to see what he does with his free time (not spend defending himself from me).
And the answer to that is nothing. After I drop my pressure he posts a few one liners. He ignores another one of Hyde's posts.
I can't really give you guys anything more, since he just doesn't have content in his filter to work with. It is just enough to skate by without people giving attention to him.
DoYouHas
I'll just list things that add up to build up my read, as posting quotes is too messy and difficult to read.
You can read his filter alongside as this is loosely chronological.
- Voting patterns. I pointed it out above in his relation with k2hd.
- His instantaneous drop of his NightFury case, only to pick it up on k2hd with the same reasoning.
- Weird vote switch from k2hd to nttea and back
- Flip flopping on gumshoe
- Using "you voted gumshoe" as considerable reason for suspicion
- Jumping straight for a nttea lynch, and not providing much anything else when probed for information
It's hard to point out "scummy" posts because all his reads and stances are weak, unsure and flip flopping. He doesn't push or pressure for anything, and the only people he has gone after this game are easy to pick on players (Fourface, k2hd and nttea).
Finally, add in the weird interactions between DYH and Alderan where there is sheeping and soft defending, asking each other easy-to-respond-to clarification questions, establishing "interactions" so if one flips the other isn't suspected due to them being missing from filters or whatnot.
Conclusion:
k2hd is town
Alderan is mafia
DoYouHas is mafia.
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Guys this is playing out exactly like D2 - we are going to be crunched for time and the chance of sheeping / bandwagoning or no lynch is a high possibility if activity is so stifled such as this.
Right now our mutual group of suspects lies within
- DYH, Alderan, TestSubject893 and ghost_403
ghost brings up a decent point in that DYH cannot respond and therefore pressuring and consolidating a lynch on people who are here will have a higher chance of success (as town suspects can clear their name / mafia suspects could slip)
I still think we have "enough info" on him (its D3 and he has one of the more weightier filters; I don't know what else you want), but if its general consensus that people don't want to vote him yet without waiting for him to give his defense, then it is a waste of time discussing that. 1st priority is agreeing upon a lynch.
We need everyone to post. Now if you have a strong case against someone else, bring it up now. Otherwise if you bring it up late (like k2hd D2) we will not have time to discuss and could make an avoidable mislynch.
As for now I'm voting my strongest read otherwise.
##Vote: Alderan
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On March 04 2012 13:35 k2hd wrote:
In response to zelblade:
Despite the pressure on him, I am still not totally convinced that alderan is mafia. He stuck his neck out on day 1 with his case against chocolate (this is I believe the first case made in the whole game), and I don't see why mafia would do this. He drove a lot of discussion on day 1, and I don't see why mafia would want to do this, rather than letting discussion stagnate or focus on the wrong things (we spent a LOT of time debating the merits of a soft deadline). He was bringing the spotlight onto himself, increasing the chance that his posting would be scrutinised more closely (which happened).
The above paragraph alone isn't enough, but his voting pattern also suggests town to me. He voted steve day 1 and me for day 2. He did not want a chocolate lynch (who I still believe is town from my previous post), or an igabod/nttea lynch, who has since flipped blue. I obviously know I am town (still unsure about testsubject), but alderan does not. He could've helped in getting a lynch on an easy target in igabod/nttea (at the time there was a real chance of igabod being lynched), but chose steve instead. On day 2 he votes for me and keeps his vote on me when there was still the danger of a no lynch. I hope he can explain his absence when he gets back.
I would disagree with the methods you are using to determine alignment.
You are comparing his actions to "optimal" mafia actions - excusing whatever he may have said or done on the basis that it isn't the best course of actions a mafia could have taken.
This is not a good way to find mafia as
1) Hindsight bias is huge. This kind of thinking neglects the context in which actions were taken (such as what information was available at the time)
2) Mafia play like town, choosing perhaps "2nd choice" and can gain unwarranted "town cred" by choosing such actions. For instance, if someone defended themselves saying "if I was mafia I would have done this instead but I didn't so therefore I'm not mafia", you wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) accept that. Flip side should be same - your reads shouldn't compare a player to your idea of "optimal" mafia, but should rather compare to town (now what type of town such as timid, newbie, over aggressive is different for each person but it is more objective and doable).
3) Mafia are undoubtedly playing as a team, but don't want to be caught as a team. For instance if the other members were instigating a bandwagon that was going to be successful, another mafia member might defend the suspect (knowing they will flip green) to gain "town cred".
That being said, I'm not here to argue whether Alderan or DYH is a better lynch.
I'm here because I want us to come to agreement.
I am willing to vote either unless someone can sway me otherwise.
Will be extremely busy this Sunday, so I might not be able to be there right before the deadline, but will try checking in to see how discussion is headed and address any questions / concerns if I can.
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On March 05 2012 01:46 ghost_403 wrote:
The thing that really worries me at the moment is that there is a small subset of players who are controlling the conversation of today. If I was less suspicious of the two premier lynch candidates, I would be very concerned.
Also, lurkers, stop lurking. You're really hurting the town at this point.
It's not controlling if there is no one else posting.
Seriously this town makes me want to cry. It's almost like everyone else has already given up or something.
I mean, 2 pages since D3 started?? C'mon! Even if it is preliminary, we should all be casting our votes. Otherwise the mafia can easily just hang back and choose to swing the vote without giving reason, citing "oh we need a lynch today *insert suspect* seemed like the best choice and I really didn't want no lynch".
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.... did not expect that. Gotta go back and reread everything when I have time tomorrow.
But are you guys serious right now?
Since my last post (around 7 hours before deadline), I was busy as aforementioned and unable to read updates.
I seriously did my best this game to hold back from tunneling this game, and put out something hoping people would input some objective third party perspectives on my case. What do I come back to? A bunch of people saying how they don't want to lynch Alderan but they somehow feel obligated to. You guys seriously disappoint me.
On March 05 2012 09:01 DoYouHas wrote:
So now I find myself between a rock and a hard place. The lynch is either going to be me or Alderan or no-lynch.
A no-lynch is the worst thing that could happen to this town (already inactive and demoralized).
Alright slOosh, you win. I'll vote Alderan in spite of my leaning town on him. But you had better believe that if he flips green I am going to come after you with a vengeance night3/day4.
##Unvote: nttea
##Vote: Alderan
Says lynching someone who he thinks is a townie is better than no lynch.
On March 05 2012 09:14 NightFury wrote:
This isn't very good at all. Not much has happened at all and it's getting extremely close to the deadline. I'm glad DYH came back and has posted. Alderan on the other hand has been completely missing in action and hasn't done anything to mitigate the case against him. As I mentioned before, a no-lynch is too similar to a mislynch in our circumstances.
##Vote: Alderan
Lynching because a lack of response on Alderan and a response from DYH rather than agreeing/disagreeing with the case itself.
On March 05 2012 10:17 Chocolate wrote:
Should I vote to lynch you or...
I haven't been posting that much because the mafia is basically running the town now. I was thinking of getting myself modkilled to show you all my alignment so you would finally lynch my suspects, but I think it would be cheating because it's against my win condition, although it could help. Tomorrow I may do that if we really need to start lynching mafia.
Says that tomorrow (as if we really start playing the game when its MYLO/LYLO) we may really need to start lynching mafia. Doesn't realize that his death would result in a loss (1 night hit, 1 modkill -> 4v4. Not to mention how strategic modkill is absolutely unacceptable)
On March 05 2012 11:04 Chocolate wrote:
I have to go to bed and will put my vote on alderan because I don't want a no ylnch. I look forward to lynching hos accusers tomo and ask that the vigi shoot sloosh
Lynching someone whose main accuser he believes to be scum to avoid a no lynch.
On March 05 2012 10:40 TestSubject893 wrote:I'm really sorry for my inactivity guys. I had a lot of really hectic stuff happen this weekend. Skimming over the thread, it looks like the general consensus is to lynch is Alderan, who, like I stated before, is high on the list of likely mafia for me. I'm trying to make time to properly catch up and respond to the posts that I promised I would (like this one), but I'm still really busy and can't promise I'll be caught up until tomorrow night. ##Vote: Alderan
Voting based off consensus and an arbitrary percentage list without explanation.
Back up your words with your actions. If you think Alderan is not scum, then you should have said it. Show me and the rest of town why. Convince us. Don't just give up and say that you don't want no lynch so you will agree to lynch someone you think is townie , or even worse listen to someone who you think is scum and lynch who he says we should lynch.
Absolutely ridiculous. You guys seriously think I'm scum for leading a mislynch?? Bring it on.
Half the town is acting like a bunch of chickens stricken with paranoia and fear, lacking direction and lynching the most active thing they see. Cool your heads, grow some spines and come back with the proper mindset.
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On March 05 2012 13:58 DoYouHas wrote:
gumshoe points us at slOosh, dies, flips town.
Alderan points us at slOosh, dies, flips town.
I think slOosh is scum.
Jekyll thinks slOosh is scum.
slOosh dies tomorrow pending acts of God.
The question is this, who are his scum buddies?
Oh you think everyone should lynch me? On what basis?
On March 02 2012 09:07 gumshoe wrote:
sloosh is more a gut thing
On March 05 2012 10:00 Alderan wrote:
Everyone's vote should instantly go on Sloosh. He's done nothing but belittle others (namely me and DYH) under the guise of active posting. He's also the Godfather, so a dt claim that he is town will only show scum who to hit. Honestly if there is a vig, shoot Sloosh tonight. Trust me.
On March 05 2012 08:05 DoYouHas wrote:
Something about zelblade that needs to be said. Many of us (including me) believed he is town because of the ridiculous and crazy response FourFace made to my initial case. However, with nttea flipping medic, we know that FourFace fakeclaimed doctor. I am of the opinion now that FourFace's craziness no longer exonerates zelblade. I am obviously biased against zelblade because I think he is making bad cases against me. All that I am asking of you is to put him back on the table when you are considering who is suspicious.
On March 05 2012 08:52 DoYouHas wrote:
-Interactions between DYH and Alderan.
I feel vaguely insulted by this. You know that Alderan plays solidly as scum. I have already mentioned that I look for these soft defenses and easy interactions when I am scumhunting. Yet you think that both of us would be stupid enough to be that obvious. If both Alderan and I were scum, you are right, we would not ignore eachother, but our interactions would also not be this stupidly obvious. Throw Chocolate onto the pile too. I have soft defended him by tearing down bad arguments against him. I do think it is amusing that zelblade accuses me with the assumption that I play well and you accuse me with the assumption that I play terribly.
On March 05 2012 11:46 JekyllAndHyde wrote:
I'll vote for slOosh
/Jekyll
A gut feel, a vanilla townie who "knows" I'm godfather, an OMGUSer and someone's accusation without a case.
Then move on and get town to focus on other players. Sure.
First thing I'll be doing Day 4 is
##Vote: DoYouHas
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On March 06 2012 03:44 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh's immediate response to the 'realization' that he had just spearheaded another townie was to blame it on everyone else. And now even though he just incorrectly pegged Alderan, he is perfectly confident that in spite of his own bad scumhunting and Alderan's defense of me, the other half of his initial case must be right. How is anyone possibly buying this?
It's like he don't even read my posts.
On March 05 2012 13:55 slOosh wrote:
Since my last post (around 7 hours before deadline), I was busy as aforementioned and unable to read updates.
I seriously did my best this game to hold back from tunneling this game, and put out something hoping people would input some objective third party perspectives on my case. What do I come back to? A bunch of people saying how they don't want to lynch Alderan but they somehow feel obligated to. You guys seriously disappoint me.
I was open to voting either one of DYH / Alderan. When I last posted it was 2-2. When I came back I find a 7-2 with 4 votes casted with absolutely no reasoning. He somehow thinks I bear total responsibility for the mislynch and that the four (of whom he is one) are absolved due to my "spearheading" with a total of 3 posts after my case.
I want to lynch DYH for reasons other than those listed in the case:
He keeps putting weight on things that actually have no weight. This is the newest addition to my case.
He also is showing really poor reasoning and OMGUSing anyone who doesn't like him.
These things happened before and are still continuing - don't think that my initial case is static - its been building with the new influx of information.
On March 06 2012 04:20 ghost_403 wrote:
@sloosh Stop tunneling DoYouHas. It's counterproductive. I am 99% sure that one of the two of you is scum, and I haven't decided which one it is yet. Let's reevalute the town and figure out who one of the other three scum is. (protip: think Chocolate)
Give me some time to it look over. All I remember is him telling a vig to shoot me without providing reasoning.
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On March 05 2012 10:17 Chocolate wrote:
Should I vote to lynch you or...
I haven't been posting that much because the mafia is basically running the town now. I was thinking of getting myself modkilled to show you all my alignment so you would finally lynch my suspects, but I think it would be cheating because it's against my win condition, although it could help. Tomorrow I may do that if we really need to start lynching mafia.
On March 05 2012 11:04 Chocolate wrote:
I have to go to bed and will put my vote on alderan because I don't want a no ylnch. I look forward to lynching hos accusers tomo and ask that the vigi shoot sloosh
On March 05 2012 21:27 Chocolate wrote:
We dont need to anymore imo. Sloosh hopefully dies tonight, if he does I think we should lynch testsubject to see if his list is any good. Then we can finish with phagga and zell.
On March 05 2012 21:44 Chocolate wrote:
Testsubjects list. Ganging up on me earlier. Being behind all the town lynches.
I can't even build a logical case off this since it makes no sense. What the heck is his mentality?
Assume he is a townie and imagine a townie thinking these things:
- "Oh we are almost at MYLO, we should really start lynching those mafia now"
- "I voted this guy so we don't get no lynch, but we should look to lynch everyone else who voted him"
- "Hey Vig you should shoot this guy. Why? Just trust me"
- "Hopefully the vig listened to me. Lets then lynch this other guy to see if his list is any good, and then lynch some of these other guys who don't like me"
Slight exaggerations aside his play is red through and through.
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On March 06 2012 08:07 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 07:23 slOosh wrote:On March 05 2012 10:17 Chocolate wrote:
Should I vote to lynch you or...
I haven't been posting that much because the mafia is basically running the town now. I was thinking of getting myself modkilled to show you all my alignment so you would finally lynch my suspects, but I think it would be cheating because it's against my win condition, although it could help. Tomorrow I may do that if we really need to start lynching mafia. On March 05 2012 11:04 Chocolate wrote:
I have to go to bed and will put my vote on alderan because I don't want a no ylnch. I look forward to lynching hos accusers tomo and ask that the vigi shoot sloosh On March 05 2012 21:27 Chocolate wrote:
We dont need to anymore imo. Sloosh hopefully dies tonight, if he does I think we should lynch testsubject to see if his list is any good. Then we can finish with phagga and zell. On March 05 2012 21:44 Chocolate wrote:
Testsubjects list. Ganging up on me earlier. Being behind all the town lynches. I can't even build a logical case off this since it makes no sense. What the heck is his mentality? Assume he is a townie and imagine a townie thinking these things: - "Oh we are almost at MYLO, we should really start lynching those mafia now" - "I voted this guy so we don't get no lynch, but we should look to lynch everyone else who voted him" - "Hey Vig you should shoot this guy. Why? Just trust me" - "Hopefully the vig listened to me. Lets then lynch this other guy to see if his list is any good, and then lynch some of these other guys who don't like me" Slight exaggerations aside his play is red through and through. 1. If we hadn't lynched him there wouldn't be nearly enough evidence to convict my main suspicions. 2. Same as the above. To expand upon that, a last minute switch away from him a la me would keep everyone in the dark. 3. If vig doesn't act soon we'll end up lynching him or he'll die from scum. I am suspicious of you for being behind a lot of town lynches, as I am also. You will note that I was against them, however, and voted them out of necessity so we could gain information. If I had my druthers I would not have lynched them. 4. If you flip red I see no reason not to lynch testsubject. I am reevaluating um position on zell but I am convinced that you, phagga, and test are scum.
Lynching people for information and evidence for your cases?
Lynching someone you think is town when we are so close to MYLO/LYLO?
Directing vig without reasoning or a case?
Lynching someone to decide if lynching someone else is a good idea?
I don't think so. There's absolutely no reason why you would think and act like this if you were town.
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On March 06 2012 08:27 Chocolate wrote:
Also guys, don't think me still existing is a coincidence. Now that we are so close to getting the mafia they are reverting to someone they had a strong case against earlier, but couldn't quite get the job done, to distract you all.
Sloosh which 4 people do you most think are scum? I presume DYH and I top the list.
Nice try, but I'm not biting. You are right to say DYH and you top the list.
Posting the rest is essentially posting my reads on everyone as there are only 9 other players remaining (beside me), which does nothing to benefit town (as we can only lynch one at a time) and will only serve as a distraction.
I'm not letting mafia shoot me, WIFOM discussion and lead a mislynch should one of my last choices be wrong.
And being alive doesn't prove alignment either way; I'm pretty sure that mafia were trying to snipe blues.
But how about you actually build a proper case instead of pointing fingers (or goading me into pointing at people for you)?
All your current cases are just OMGUSes at people who think you are mafia.
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On March 07 2012 02:34 DoYouHas wrote:
Seems the battle lines have been drawn. Me, k2hd, NightFury, Chocolate vs slOosh, Ghost, Phagga, Testsubject.
Jekyll, I don't know what you will end up deciding. But if I read the sides on this as clearly as I think I do, your decision is going to be the difference between an all townie lynching of scum and a bus.
##Vote: slOosh
This is the pinnacle of ridiculousness. You have drawn a clear line in the sand and distributed every player into two lots, solely on the basis of your assumption (yes it is assumption now, it is very clear you are twisting everything I say / do into painting me mafia). Let me refresh everyone's minds of a recent post.
On March 06 2012 10:17 DoYouHas wrote:
"He keeps putting weight on things that actually have no weight."
I hope that those of you out there who are actually townies do not buy this. You currently have 3 people out there who you know for certain that their motivations are townie. gumshoe, Alderan, and yourself. Ignoring their suspicions and posts is pure folly. slOosh claiming they have no weight is absurd.
Conveniently ignored are any of zelblade's reads, even though he just flipped town. Seems like you like to advice people but not listen to your own. You just like manipulation of dead townie's reads to paint me scum. You forget Alderan was the first to post PBPA on Chocolate, forget that gumshoe's suspicion is solely a "gut feel" but keep asserting the authority of dead people's posts.
On March 06 2012 22:20 k2hd wrote:
I do also believe that sloosh has been actively trying to discredit DoYouHas ever since he came back. When alderan went MIA due to his RL issues and DoYouHas left on his trip, sloosh's posting became more active. He was effectively able to take over town discussion, and now that DoYouHas is back, sloosh aims to discredit him so that mafia have complete control over town. The authoritative and generally stronger posters in alderan and zelblade are now gone, leaving DoYouHas. Sloosh is trying to get the rest of the town players to stop listening to him, leaving him unopposed. For those who sheeped alderan, I really hope you don't take sloosh's posting as fact.
Read things in context k2hd. I still think you are a townie (albeit a mislead one) which is why I bother to improve your reasoning and logic. My posting became more active. But so did zelblade's. How can you apply the "activity" logic on me but not zelblade? I didn't take over town discussion - I was one of the few who actually posted anything in this desert of a thread town. Really look at where your reads are coming from - because as I see it you are just sheeping DYH and Chocolate.
On March 06 2012 22:20 k2hd wrote:
He had an issue with alderan having more than one case up at a time (and clearly does not want a no lynch either) , because "we need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again". But what did he just do on day 3? Bring up 2 extensive cases against DoYouHas and alderan at the same time. He then berates nightfury, chocolate, testsubject and DoYouHas for voting the way they did to avoid a no lynch. Sloosh could very well have avoided this situation if he'd just posted the case against his strongest scum read first (DoYouHas), and left alderan's case for later. Note that both cases are brought up when both players are conveniently unable to defend themselves until very close to the deadline.
Again, hindsight and confirmation bias. I berated Alderan since all he was doing was casting suspicion on multiple people without the intent of actually finding and lynching mafia. You said it yourself - my cases were extensive. I didn't post them primarily for feedback on my read - I posted them primarily because I thought they were scum and wanted to lynch them.
Reread what I highlighted in bold. I could have avoided the situation? Just think about the mentality you are sheeping off DYH. If I posted my one case and people didn't agree, don't you see a no lynch, or even worse, a thoughtless bandwagon lynch could have been the only outcomes? I did my best to offer my reads because people weren't in consensus, as the 2-2 initial vote split indicates.
And really, you have to start reading for yourself man.
On March 04 2012 11:46 slOosh wrote:
As for now I'm voting my strongest read otherwise.
##Vote: Alderan
This is all I can post right now, I'll be back later tonight to finish my thoughts.
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On March 07 2012 09:50 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 08:36 slOosh wrote:Let me refresh everyone's minds of a recent post. On March 06 2012 10:17 DoYouHas wrote:
"He keeps putting weight on things that actually have no weight."
I hope that those of you out there who are actually townies do not buy this. You currently have 3 people out there who you know for certain that their motivations are townie. gumshoe, Alderan, and yourself. Ignoring their suspicions and posts is pure folly. slOosh claiming they have no weight is absurd.
Conveniently ignored are any of zelblade's reads, even though he just flipped town. Seems like you like to advice people but not listen to your own. You just like manipulation of dead townie's reads to paint me scum. You forget Alderan was the first to post PBPA on Chocolate, forget that gumshoe's suspicion is solely a "gut feel" but keep asserting the authority of dead people's posts. Wow, you're really grasping at straws now considering the post you quoted happened before zelblade died. There is no 'convenient ignoring'. In fact, I am really amused that you are the one to bring up how zelblade's death hurts my arguments against you.
Hmm. I don't recall saying that. Let me requote myself.
On March 07 2012 08:36 slOosh wrote:
Seems like you like to advice people but not listen to your own.
I never said anything about how zelblade's death is an indicator your alignment. I pointed out how you are so confident in prior dead townies posts but have not yet shown any consideration to zelblade's townie thoughts. A Logical Inconsistency.
On March 07 2012 09:50 DoYouHas wrote:
As for Alderan, he did post the first PBPA on Chocolate, but if memory serves, he was not the one that pushed Chocolate's lynch in the end. He was, however, the one who speculated that mafia would push the case of a townie over one of their own day1. And would ya look at that, 3/4 of the people I suspect to be mafia are on that list.
Hmm. I don't recall that either. In fact, it was you who first posted and got him to sheep you on it.
On February 28 2012 08:29 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:04 DoYouHas wrote:
Anybody else think that this bandwagon is forming a little quickly on Chocolate? It wouldn't be so odd to me, but when I see a post like NightFury's which attacks Chocolate with points that are not very conclusive I start thinking that people are talking themselves into a Chocolate lynch instead of being objectively convinced. If you thought that he was our best lynch candidate because you found a few of thing things he said fishy and did not like his early lurking/middle of the road posts, that is one thing. But when you invent fairly invalid points to convince us that you aren't just sheeping the vote, it is very bad for town I almost made literally the exact same post. The Chocolate thing is coming along too easily, I would have expected at least a case made against someone else. That in combination with his mildly sufficient answers have me reconsidering my vote.
Not only that, but 2/2 people I suspect are on Alderan's D3 vote list. Yea, I can manipulate and twist evidence too.
Oh, and no problem on narrowing your list. It truly was "my desire to discredit you" that narrowed your list to 4.
Not zelblade's death. No, that had nothing to do with it.
On March 06 2012 03:44 DoYouHas wrote:
That leaves the 4 mafia in this list.
1. slOosh
2. Ghost
3. zelblade
4. Testsubject
5. Phagga
I grow weary and tired of your logical inconsistencies, your tireless OMGUSs and your forgetful memory.
I can't believe I forgot to do this with my last post:
##Vote: DoYouHas
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EPT
