On February 21 2012 08:19 redFF wrote: PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE
The game has been going on for an hour, my suggestion of a policy lynch does not mean I don't want anyone to scumhunt. It's an excellent way to generate discussion, which it has.
VE's post is hypocritical because he's calling me scum for pushing a policy lynch when he himself was pushing a policy lynch up until that post, when it arbitrarily became a scum lynch. Consider him my first moderately scummy read.
You're better than this. He never ever said your PL position was bad, but that you are spammy. Please read posts before you start OMGUSing. Considering you have time to spam you should have time to read.
I beg to differ on that first statement, IMO redFF is god awful at this game
On February 21 2012 09:59 wherebugsgo wrote: VE stfu you suck
Everyone else sucks marginally less ATM. Mostly chaoser is doing the least sucking.
Blazinghand learn to play
I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl. Till then I suggest you all brush up on Ver's guide since the last page has made my eyes bleed.
Ho boy, this is good play here. GOOD play. Let me count the ways.
1) Throwing out random insults. While I can appreciate the occasional well-deserved jibe, just saying someone "sucks" is...not productive.
2) Buddying up to chaoser. Apparently I suck - but I don't know why and Bugs' post does nothing to explain it. But chaoser is the only one NOT sucking - let's explore that. chaoser was the first one to jump on-board redFF's PL of Tyrran, and besides red himself has been the first one to jump off it as well. Furthermore, chaoser has spent a fair amount of time defending redFF against my accusations by agreeing with him that I am being 'hypocritical'....except, as it turns out this was based on faulty information that stems from APPARENTLY misreading the thread (thinking I said something DocH actually said). So as it turns out, chaoser is doing MORE sucking than several others in-thread already.
3) "I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl." - WBG I guess this means he wasn't programming before, but is now? So where has he been during all this time? Why not stop by and tell me what a dick I am BEFORE I called him out for not being in-thread yet? Why not come in and defend redFF if my case was so bad last page? Your guess is obviously as good as mine, but I suspect his has something to do with sharing an alignment with a certain someone the last page has been discussing.
4) "...since the last page has made my eyes bleed." - WBG So....I guess he thinks redFF is town or something? Or he just thinks my argument is shit? Or he thinks the last page is some kind of stigmata? I have no idea. He's just tossing doubt around as if he's some kind of authority. Guess what guys - THIS IS HIS FIRST POST. HE HASN'T EARNED THE RIGHT TO CALL ANYONE BAD YET IN THIS GAME BECAUSE HE HASN'T DONE SHIT HIMSELF.
5) (and most importantly)
......NO U
<3
you don't suck anymore
Anyway in all seriousness (as serious as I can be atm hahahaha) I should stop procrastinating. + Show Spoiler +
but it's sooo hard
While I'm gone, VE, give me some work to do. Who do you think is scum? Why? What do you think of redFF, chaoser, and Dr. H?
The last page DOESN'T make your eyes bleed? What do you like about the current state of the game?
If you desire any clarification go ahead and ask, but as I play this game on a need to know basis you have no guarantee I'll actually give you an answer you'll like. Unless, of course, I feel like there's a good reason to tell you (and by extension everyone else in this thread)
On February 21 2012 10:14 redFF wrote: I don't see how I'm pushing scum agendas. What does that even mean?
Ah, wbg is here, awesome.
I'm remembering why I stopped playing here a couple months ago lol.
you stopped playing here because you realized you were so bad?
Man, that's comedy gold right there.
I really enjoy how you can call Tyrran bad for no reason whatsoever and then play the victim card when someone else does the exact same thing.
Since I'm not your psychiatrist I have no interest in asking you how it feels. Though, I find it hilarious as hell.
On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia.
chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite?
kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser?
Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players.
yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM).
On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia.
chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite?
kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser?
Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players.
yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM).
sup
##vote chaoser
Ho boy, what are YOUR thoughts on redFF Bugs? I see you're now offended by chaoser's play in spite of him "doing the least sucking"...you completely ignore my case on redFF and stick a vote on the guy doing "the least sucking" in-thread?
Something is..........not right here. Maybe I need a break from the thread for a bit.
redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him.
He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts.
Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments.
As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence.
Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads?
On February 21 2012 10:48 chaoser wrote: i'm not buddying you? I'm giving a town read. I didn't realize giving out town reads was buddying. we can argue about the usefulness of giving out town reads though.
also, i am watching the knicks game, why am i not scum jackal =[
On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia.
chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite?
kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser?
Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players.
yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM).
sup
##vote chaoser
Ho boy, what are YOUR thoughts on redFF Bugs? I see you're now offended by chaoser's play in spite of him "doing the least sucking"...you completely ignore my case on redFF and stick a vote on the guy doing "the least sucking" in-thread?
Something is..........not right here. Maybe I need a break from the thread for a bit.
redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him.
He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts.
Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments.
As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence.
Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads?
And now we're getting somewhere.
I guess I have a few questions for you regarding redFF if this is your stance on him.
1) Do you think redFF actually believed in a Policy Lynch of Tyrran based on his posts? 1a) If no, do you think he's used the information he's gained from "generating discussion" effectively? 1b) If yes, what do you think of his sudden unvote of Tyrran based on 1 post he made? 2) You said it yourself - he's "playing the victim" with his latest post. Is this something you'd expect scum to do regardless of skill-level or readability? 2a) If no, then why did you bring it up? 2b) If yes, then why would you NOT vote for redFF considering there's already support for his lynch and there's a (good) case against him?
1a) I have no fucking clue what he really thinks, since I'm not him, but solely based on how dumb his play is, yes. I think he believes everything he says is good play because he views himself so highly. Example from Resurrection that I'll never forget:
On September 04 2011 09:42 redFF wrote: you only get lynched as town if your bad, not your attacker's fault you played scummy. meh ima go now, i've said everything ive needed to say.
He strongly believes this, and Ace said something I couldn't say better myself: people get lynched for all sorts of reasons, and a lot of the time it isn't even their own fault. Look at Hammer Mini: I get lynched for not showing up for like 4 hours. It wasn't a long time (and basically I got lynched because my keyboard broke, more or less. I hadn't done anything alignment-indicative at that point and everyone just bandwagoned)
Same thing happened in resurrection : two townies got lynched because they were unable to defend themselves from the town derpwagon spearheaded by redFF, who at the time 100% believed they were scum.
1b) Standard retarded redFF play 2) Loaded question: short answer, yes. Scum do it all the time IMO. But the problem is, so do bads.
For reference, here's more of redFF playing the victim:
On September 04 2011 09:43 redFF wrote: It's fun to call people stupid!!!
On September 04 2011 10:33 redFF wrote: calling people dumb is fun!!!
On November 09 2011 08:32 redFF wrote: honestly since you guys are retards and its likely that me and kita are going to solely win this game with a little help from chaoser i dont see where calling me stupid is going to get you
(look at the irony in that last post: he complains about being called stupid but the first thing he said called everyone else retarded LOL)
redFF plays victim all the time as town. I pointed it out because I instinctively point out things that I find to be scummy. However, since everything redFF ever does is scummy, I don't see how that is helpful.
2a) answered; yes; instinctive to point out scumtells
2b) answered; because redFF is possibly the worst player I've played with and because I disagree that it's actually even a scumtell with his posting history
Same thing happened in resurrection : two townies got lynched because they were unable to defend themselves from the town derpwagon spearheaded by redFF, who at the time 100% believed they were scum.
I don't know what those last quotes have to do with mafia other than calling me a hypocritical asshole, which is probably true.
at no point have I said I ever think I am good. In fact I realize I am not.
However, that doesn't stop me from calling out bad play, cause damn it's so fun to do so.
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
Since you know redFF better than I ever will, mind telling us what he is?
At the moment I still don't see anything other than normal redFF, which isn't worth wasting a vote on. Voting him just makes the thread explode with more useless one liners.
On February 21 2012 10:48 chaoser wrote: i'm not buddying you? I'm giving a town read. I didn't realize giving out town reads was buddying. we can argue about the usefulness of giving out town reads though.
also, i am watching the knicks game, why am i not scum jackal =[
giving out town reads is bad and you know that.
So why are you doing it?
debatable. people give out townie reads all the time, especially at night to try to direct medics if needed. At the same time mafia get directed to shoot at the person. Either way though, the mafia should be good enough to "read" who is the most townie person in the game and so they'd shoot at them anyway, even if someone gives a town read. Therefore, I don't think giving out townie reads affect mafia in anyway.
While the night is debatable, I don't think there's anything negative about giving reads in the morning. Especially since it gives the other players a barometer on what my reads and thoughts are Giving a townie read during the day merely gives more information to town about me and my reads. In the long run, that'd help town. If I change my opinion, I'm forced to defend it. I have less "freedom" to do whatever i want so I think it's more helpful to townie then to mafia.
Since you love Ace so much,
On September 04 2011 09:18 Ace wrote: What the fuck is anyone's Town reads going to accomplish right now but to clutter the thread and lead to bullshit? Secondly telling everyone your town reads opens up to Scum manipulation. Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends.
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
well, that's certainly a revelation....redFF being bad??! Just...the thought of it...unbelievable!
On February 21 2012 11:50 redFF wrote: Ace is a cunt and not in this game, stop riding his dick and play.
and yet hes better than you in near every way. What does that say about you?
him being a cunt has nothing to do with his skill at mafia.
I was more referencing the fact your behaving worse than he normally does (he is better than you). As you are being a total douche canoe yet don't carry the level of skill or better than him I was referencing that you were deserving of a far lower and baser title.
I am free to let others pick for you as I simply switch to different and more entertaining terms. Now, shall we play instead of focusing on how fun it is that you play in the shallow end of the sandbox all alone.
On February 21 2012 12:04 chaoser wrote: If you notice though, that specific quote from Ace was towards the players of that game ASKING others for their LIST of town (and scum) reads in a no flip game.
It was basically a game that was easy to manipulate and a situation where EVERYONE was giving out reads like woah.
That is different from this case because it is only me giving my read. So if mafia wants, they can try to manipulate me and that's about it.
Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends.
I don't really see a problem because I don't plan to criss cross my reads with my votes (why would a townie need to do this) without explaining my change in reads first. The second point, again, doesn't matter since it's only my read and so mafia really can't tell who has "Strong" support or not.
Either way, there are ways for mafia to gauge "support" aside from seeing people's town reads. Just by looking at voting threads, one can usually deduce who is being supported and who isn't.
So that quote doesn't apply to this situation at all.
Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck
as much as I love to call him terrible, if he actually is town no one is going to defend him anyway and so you have no idea whether or not we're actually doing a good thing here.
Imagine VE being scum and you just called him town. You give him credence and reliability if he's scum. If he actually is town we don't actually gain anything except an opinion of yours, that, if you are town, can be manipulated. Certainly it's manipulable regardless of VE's real alignment.
If I'm not being clear enough: If I were scum, I'd love for people to do what town-Ace hates.
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
Honestly I think he may be suffering from something like a bat to the back of the head. That or a level of arrogance unseen since showtime. As it stands now short of recommending a terrible idea and being a retarded troll (which is a smiteworthy offense if he keeps it up) I see him more as someone to mock / ignore than take seriously. I know I am moderately guilty of this via my last few posts, however anyone continuing the trend of useless discussion / just trading insults with redff are most likely not playing with town interests in heart. There are a few players already guilty of this obviously.
I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better.
Come on guy....COME ON. You know what I'm asking. Do you think he's scum?
Also, I thought we were well beyond policy-discussion - I've put forth a scum-candidate and several people have joined the wagon (with little to no reasoning)....and some (and by some I mean WBG) have even gone on to defend him - citing meta resources that point to badTownRedFF. I mean, did you miss all this in reading? Why are you trying to color this all as policy discussion? What's up yo?
its what? 5 hours into the day? I would like to believe redff isn't this horrendous as scum to be caught this quickly. However that is wifom with someone of his experience. The only read I have on him as of now is Bad. Bad town or bad mafia. Hell, I think chaoser is also bad for defending posting town reads as a viable move at this stage in the game. It is only at all useful if people are posting clear scum reads along with clear town reads to make them fully accountable rather than "contributing" without doing much.
As for coloring it up to policy discussion, the main point you first raised (I will re-read to see what your entire argument is in exact detail so i stress the first point i saw) was his push on tyrran via policy of being bad. Factor in the mass level of general annoyance with him via his recent behaviour outside of game it is not outside the realms of possibility people are "policy" pushing him based on him being a total wad.
Okay BC, we're in agreement on two things:
redFF is playing badly chaoser is playng badly.
Now tell us kindly, what does that imply about these two players?
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
Honestly I think he may be suffering from something like a bat to the back of the head. That or a level of arrogance unseen since showtime. As it stands now short of recommending a terrible idea and being a retarded troll (which is a smiteworthy offense if he keeps it up) I see him more as someone to mock / ignore than take seriously. I know I am moderately guilty of this via my last few posts, however anyone continuing the trend of useless discussion / just trading insults with redff are most likely not playing with town interests in heart. There are a few players already guilty of this obviously.
I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better.
Come on guy....COME ON. You know what I'm asking. Do you think he's scum?
Also, I thought we were well beyond policy-discussion - I've put forth a scum-candidate and several people have joined the wagon (with little to no reasoning)....and some (and by some I mean WBG) have even gone on to defend him - citing meta resources that point to badTownRedFF. I mean, did you miss all this in reading? Why are you trying to color this all as policy discussion? What's up yo?
its what? 5 hours into the day? I would like to believe redff isn't this horrendous as scum to be caught this quickly. However that is wifom with someone of his experience. The only read I have on him as of now is Bad. Bad town or bad mafia. Hell, I think chaoser is also bad for defending posting town reads as a viable move at this stage in the game. It is only at all useful if people are posting clear scum reads along with clear town reads to make them fully accountable rather than "contributing" without doing much.
As for coloring it up to policy discussion, the main point you first raised (I will re-read to see what your entire argument is in exact detail so i stress the first point i saw) was his push on tyrran via policy of being bad. Factor in the mass level of general annoyance with him via his recent behaviour outside of game it is not outside the realms of possibility people are "policy" pushing him based on him being a total wad.
Okay BC, we're in agreement on two things:
redFF is playing badly chaoser is playng badly.
Now tell us kindly, what does that imply about these two players?
Easy answers bro.
They're both better than you?
Jackie poo you never answered my question
since you know redFF better than I do, would you lynch him today?
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
Honestly I think he may be suffering from something like a bat to the back of the head. That or a level of arrogance unseen since showtime. As it stands now short of recommending a terrible idea and being a retarded troll (which is a smiteworthy offense if he keeps it up) I see him more as someone to mock / ignore than take seriously. I know I am moderately guilty of this via my last few posts, however anyone continuing the trend of useless discussion / just trading insults with redff are most likely not playing with town interests in heart. There are a few players already guilty of this obviously.
I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better.
Come on guy....COME ON. You know what I'm asking. Do you think he's scum?
Also, I thought we were well beyond policy-discussion - I've put forth a scum-candidate and several people have joined the wagon (with little to no reasoning)....and some (and by some I mean WBG) have even gone on to defend him - citing meta resources that point to badTownRedFF. I mean, did you miss all this in reading? Why are you trying to color this all as policy discussion? What's up yo?
its what? 5 hours into the day? I would like to believe redff isn't this horrendous as scum to be caught this quickly. However that is wifom with someone of his experience. The only read I have on him as of now is Bad. Bad town or bad mafia. Hell, I think chaoser is also bad for defending posting town reads as a viable move at this stage in the game. It is only at all useful if people are posting clear scum reads along with clear town reads to make them fully accountable rather than "contributing" without doing much.
As for coloring it up to policy discussion, the main point you first raised (I will re-read to see what your entire argument is in exact detail so i stress the first point i saw) was his push on tyrran via policy of being bad. Factor in the mass level of general annoyance with him via his recent behaviour outside of game it is not outside the realms of possibility people are "policy" pushing him based on him being a total wad.
Okay BC, we're in agreement on two things:
redFF is playing badly chaoser is playng badly.
Now tell us kindly, what does that imply about these two players?
Easy answers bro.
They're both better than you?
Jackie poo you never answered my question
since you know redFF better than I do, would you lynch him today?
On February 21 2012 12:04 chaoser wrote: If you notice though, that specific quote from Ace was towards the players of that game ASKING others for their LIST of town (and scum) reads in a no flip game.
It was basically a game that was easy to manipulate and a situation where EVERYONE was giving out reads like woah.
That is different from this case because it is only me giving my read. So if mafia wants, they can try to manipulate me and that's about it.
Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends.
I don't really see a problem because I don't plan to criss cross my reads with my votes (why would a townie need to do this) without explaining my change in reads first. The second point, again, doesn't matter since it's only my read and so mafia really can't tell who has "Strong" support or not.
Either way, there are ways for mafia to gauge "support" aside from seeing people's town reads. Just by looking at voting threads, one can usually deduce who is being supported and who isn't.
So that quote doesn't apply to this situation at all.
Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck
as much as I love to call him terrible, if he actually is town no one is going to defend him anyway and so you have no idea whether or not we're actually doing a good thing here.
Imagine VE being scum and you just called him town. You give him credence and reliability if he's scum. If he actually is town we don't actually gain anything except an opinion of yours, that, if you are town, can be manipulated. Certainly it's manipulable regardless of VE's real alignment.
If I'm not being clear enough: If I were scum, I'd love for people to do what town-Ace hates.
I'm not cocky enough to think that people will take my townie read at face value and will be highly regarded. As you can see, many people in the game don't care much for my thoughts at the moment anyway. RedFF is being voted on cause he's been scummy/playing shitty, not because I'm giving credulousness to VE.
Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck
At this point, it's only a few hours into day one and there's only like 4 votes on him, hardly what I'd call someone being "bandwagoned to fuck", especially with people saying they want to move off his lynch. I doubt we're going to sit on him and just waste the day. Do you?
I still don't think you've made a good case for why my giving a town read on VE was a bad move. Let's say we agree to disagree and move on.
Toad, what do you think about Jackal saying you're scum. And what do you think about the recent developments regarding RedFF? Does he still deserve a lynch, especially if we can't find anyone else to lynch by the end of the day?
I care about your opinion, same as I care about the opinion of the majority of the players in this game.
As town shouldn't it be your priority to get people to care about your opinion? You just said you think people don't care much for your thoughts. Even if it's only a few hours into the game you think that's a good thing for a townie? I think it's great for scum to not listened to, and in fact that makes you look a lot scummier. You're perceptive about how others view you and yet you don't seem to care all that much.
At this point, it's only a few hours into day one and there's only like 4 votes on him, hardly what I'd call someone being "bandwagoned to fuck", especially with people saying they want to move off his lynch. I doubt we're going to sit on him and just waste the day. Do you?
It might be early in the day but that doesn't prevent bandwagons from starting.
The one lesson I learned from all the games in which I watched a townie die day 1 is that you have to stop the bandwagon's momentum as soon as you believe that it is picking up steam for the wrong reasons. In fact, at times it matters less what you think about the subject and more so what you think of the players who are pushing. A great example would be Some Mafia Game or Steamship. In Steamship, for one, I screamed for hours about how Kenpachi and sinani could not possibly be scum and completely missed the people on their wagons who pushed them with no scrutiny. I could tell even at only 3 or 4 votes that those bandwagons were going badly but I did not do the correct things to stop them. Perhaps this game will be different. I don't know what redFF is simply based on reading his posts, but based on how he's been voted I don't feel confident about that lynch. (and ofc his meta)
Finally, you probably know this, but as it's early morning in Europe I doubt Toad will be posting any time soon.
On February 21 2012 13:28 Blazinghand wrote: I think WBG is wrong and redFF has not been acting in a pro-town fashion. I think chaoser is picking a dumb fight. what do you think?
I never called redFF pro-town.
Being anti-town gives you two possibilities:
you're bad town
you're scum
The problem with redFF is, how do you tell? I suppose we could just lynch him anyway, but then we aren't really lynching someone we surely think is scum. At that point we're just lynching to punish bad play.
While I'm not opposed to lynching people who play badly in this game, I think we can look into finding scum in people who are easier to read than redFF. Reading players who are generally detrimental when they play town has never been my strong suit.
On February 21 2012 14:26 Blazinghand wrote: So your contention is "redFF is playing as bad town rather than scum", and although lynching bad town isn't the worst thing we could do, it's substantially preferable to lynch scum. This is a fair point. I will reread thread.
you're still wrong, but whatever.
My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true)
I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding.
On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote: syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF?
I think I was completely wrong about him.
Pretty much all you've said about him is "he's bad, that's all I can say"
Are you now saying that you really actually had a read on him you weren't sharing in spite of being asked repeatedly and that now you're reversing it?
Or are you thinking you were wrong and redFF's play has actually been good all this time? Or what are you saying here?
I guess there's no point in waiting till syllo replies, but first of all, get the sand out of your crotch and stop thinking everything's a conspiracy to make you confused.
I think he might actually be scum, based on his "read" of Toad that immediately followed on drunk Jackal saying Toad is scum. I found it extremely weird at the time but I didn't mention anything because red is dumb. But then, later I saw that Jackal said his read was fake. redFF posted this:
On February 22 2012 01:06 Jackal58 wrote: Red - What did you see in Toad's filter that made you agree with me?
Do you still think toad is scum? If yes, why ?
Never did.
You wily old fox you.
which not only is hilarious, but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done.
##unvote chaoser
##vote redFF
and yes, I'm going back on everything I said earlier. redFF is bad but I think I'm being too pessimistic by saying he's unreadable (and it's going to be a challenge now!)
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote: inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.
so all scum should just claim blue day 1 and they're fine?
nah. I say we still lynch you. You claim at 5 votes at 24 hours into day 1, and expect to get off the hook that easily?
Nah. At least for me, I have the balls to lynch you.
On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote: ...but first of all, get the sand out of your crotch and stop thinking everything's a conspiracy to make you confused.
On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote: ...and yes, I'm going back on everything I said earlier.
wat?
about redFF.
he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective.
Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable.
Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do?
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote: inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.
Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue.
But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth.
So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment.
heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me.
I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1?
If you are town it shouldn't be hard to show that and get us to back off on the right track. Claiming just adds confusion and expectations suck.
On February 21 2012 12:04 chaoser wrote: If you notice though, that specific quote from Ace was towards the players of that game ASKING others for their LIST of town (and scum) reads in a no flip game.
It was basically a game that was easy to manipulate and a situation where EVERYONE was giving out reads like woah.
That is different from this case because it is only me giving my read. So if mafia wants, they can try to manipulate me and that's about it.
Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends.
I don't really see a problem because I don't plan to criss cross my reads with my votes (why would a townie need to do this) without explaining my change in reads first. The second point, again, doesn't matter since it's only my read and so mafia really can't tell who has "Strong" support or not.
Either way, there are ways for mafia to gauge "support" aside from seeing people's town reads. Just by looking at voting threads, one can usually deduce who is being supported and who isn't.
So that quote doesn't apply to this situation at all.
Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck
as much as I love to call him terrible, if he actually is town no one is going to defend him anyway and so you have no idea whether or not we're actually doing a good thing here.
Imagine VE being scum and you just called him town. You give him credence and reliability if he's scum. If he actually is town we don't actually gain anything except an opinion of yours, that, if you are town, can be manipulated. Certainly it's manipulable regardless of VE's real alignment.
If I'm not being clear enough: If I were scum, I'd love for people to do what town-Ace hates.
I'm not cocky enough to think that people will take my townie read at face value and will be highly regarded. As you can see, many people in the game don't care much for my thoughts at the moment anyway. RedFF is being voted on cause he's been scummy/playing shitty, not because I'm giving credulousness to VE.
Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck
At this point, it's only a few hours into day one and there's only like 4 votes on him, hardly what I'd call someone being "bandwagoned to fuck", especially with people saying they want to move off his lynch. I doubt we're going to sit on him and just waste the day. Do you?
I still don't think you've made a good case for why my giving a town read on VE was a bad move. Let's say we agree to disagree and move on.
Toad, what do you think about Jackal saying you're scum. And what do you think about the recent developments regarding RedFF? Does he still deserve a lynch, especially if we can't find anyone else to lynch by the end of the day?
I care about your opinion, same as I care about the opinion of the majority of the players in this game. [...] Finally, you probably know this, but as it's early morning in Europe I doubt Toad will be posting any time soon.
I do not know if that is supposed to be irony or mafia-Bugs brownnosing :p With all seriousness I find that post weird.
Bugs just isn't the helpful kind of guy as a townie and this looks like a helpful kind of guy. If someone like myself would make that post that'd be fine, same with pretty much everyone else in here, especially the newer ones but bugs? You're the hyperagressive guy aren't you? I don't mind you telling people it was late in europe at that time (I went to bed at 2am, so it had to be later than that) but isn't bugs usually the guy who might see this kind of thing but won't say a thing because he wants the other guy to defend himself nevertheless the get some reads? Remember L? He knew I was Town all along or at least for the last couple of days according to what he said. Yet he kept pushing me like a mad man, for fun and although he never said that he probably that to get some reads out of people like myself or people who are attacking me / defending me.
So I've got to say the few lines out of that big post I quoted make we feel like it's not bugs usual agressive style. You all saw what he was like when talking to redFF although that's over the top because it's redFF and I think those two don't like each other. It's a minor thing but again, it really made me think for a moment.
still reading :p
course I'm helpful. People just don't see it when I'm being a raging asshole because of how retarded average town play is.
Basically if you want a couple reasons as to why I pointed out you were asleep, here you go:
1. I abused activity times in MLP as scum to push or influence players I knew couldn't respond. Example: Forumite, Nisani. I influenced Forumite's opinions during day when I knew he was asleep and then I pushed Nisani as scum both when he could respond and at like 2 am in the morning when I knew he couldn't.
2. As town I prefer immediate responses, which is why I don't often pose specific questions to players unless I know they're active. This is because I don't like giving scum time to fake responses. This is why I waited so long to ask syllo anything; I knew syllo would not be able to respond at the time so I chose to ask him just now because it's more likely he's online.
3. Recently in Hammer I died day 1 because my keyboard broke and I couldn't respond to the lynch. That sucks.
On February 22 2012 07:35 redFF wrote: VE- I've provided scumreads in the form of kita and Toad, I've also said I'd be fine with a layabout lynch.
Bugs how would explaining how everything I've done has scum motivations help me defend myself. I think its just a phrase you threw out to make your vote seem legit.
On February 22 2012 07:42 redFF wrote: I usually enjoy mafia but wbg has made this game incredibly unfun. wbg if you're sole goal in playing has been to make me mad, consider it accomplished. im out.
inb4 lol, AtE, drama queen, w/e, you're a fucking dick and you actively drive people from this forum.
On February 22 2012 10:55 Blazinghand wrote: This is a game of mafia!
WBG: Oh thank you blazinghand you are so helpful Me: no problem man, any time WBG: Seriously I'd like buy you sangwhiches and stuff. I like walks on the beach Me: hey man that's kinda crossing the line I'm not really into- WBG: DONT YOU LOVE ME??? *click*
I'm so glad I can smurf by logging into your account and posting this useless shit
On February 22 2012 10:55 Blazinghand wrote: This is a game of mafia!
WBG: Oh thank you blazinghand you are so helpful Me: no problem man, any time WBG: Seriously I'd like buy you sangwhiches and stuff. I like walks on the beach Me: hey man that's kinda crossing the line I'm not really into- WBG: DONT YOU LOVE ME??? *click*
I'm so glad I can smurf by logging into your account and posting this useless shit
Yeah I dunno why you keep talking to yourself, or log into your smurf to post fake conversations of you talking to you
I'll vote redFF to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that.
On February 22 2012 11:29 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo It did appear very clearly in the OP that you can't ask questions to the host in the thread though, you have to PM your questions. Also, I think it's plurality lynch.
it was in a spoiler that I forgot about since I ctrl-f'd right before :p
On February 22 2012 11:29 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo How do you feel about syllogism's accusations against BloodyC0bbler?
they're pretty weak and I don't know what syllo is going on about.
The fact that you agree with his accusations only cements my existing opinion.
Anyway, don't you think that this redFF lynch is an easy way out for scum? Right now, it's going to be very hard to argue against a redFF lynch and I don't think he's scum because he's just been too much out there. All of his "misrepresentation" looks like he was just a bit overburdened by the load he put on himself, and I don't really think they look overly malicious.
How is anything you have said here indicative of redFF being town?
If I were scum and redFF was on my team I'd bus him. So yeah, perhaps the lynch is an easy way out for scum because regardless of his alignment redFF would probably get bandwagoned by them.
If you think that redFF is an easy way out for scum why don't you explain which players on his wagon are scum? You really think BC would play that badly as scum to bandwagon someone as the what... fifth vote?
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote: When was the last time you saw a scum go out during the first hours of day1 and misrepresent somebody's opinions to legitimately push their lynch? Everybody in this game can right now just jump on redFF with 20 hours left in the day and that would kinda be ruinous if redFF isn't scum.
First of all, why does it matter if it hasn't happened before?
Second of all, I do it all the fucking time as scum. Look at Responsibility. All I did was misrepresent opinions and I was the first damn vote on LSB. I led that lynch by stretching my points as much as possible.
Third, look at any game in which scum dies day 1 and you'll see a pattern: they played fucking terribly. How is that different in this case?
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote: The only thing that looks really weird to me was his claim but he did announce in the thread that he would claim soon if people started piling onto him. Then you started pushing his lynch and he claimed and that makes it kinda expected. Also, his extra information (busdriver/redirector conjecturing) seems like too much hassle for redFF if he was really scum.
How is it expected for someone to claim this early based on four votes? Especially based on me voting him, when he apparently thinks I suck and am simply antagonistic?
Everything he has done since I voted him (and I even defended him for a long while before I voted him) has shown that he is simply panicking and trying to stay alive. In what way is leaving him alive going to help us?
Plus, the roleblock thing is retarded. If he actually is town don't you think he'll come back tomorrow and say "oh hey guys I got roleblocked."? So again, answer me this: what use does a living redFF have for us?
As long as redFF is alive, he's going to suck up the discussion and cause us to talk about him. If we leave him alive we have two scenarios:
1. He gets roleblocked and returns with no result. So, people try to kill him based on what he said today. If people disagree with wanting to kill him, we end up in a massive loop of "why aren't we killing redFF"
2. He doesn't get roleblocked and people come and say "why didn't he get roleblocked? Mafia would definitely roleblock him! He needs to die!" Since he claimed tracker, regardless of his actual alignment his result will most probably be completely useless even if he's not roleblocked. If he's scum obviously his "result" will be useless, and if he's town we'll still have no idea what to do with the result unless he tracks the night kill.
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote: If redFF is your strongest scum read, who's your second strongest scum read?
On February 22 2012 11:56 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo Ad hominems are really fucking stupid in this game. There are hardly any new players you could hope to bully into anything. All you can achieve is make people dislike you which will reduce your town pull, or maybe starting a pissing contest that will make it harder for meaningful discussion to take place while cluttering up the thread.
I haven't personally attacked anyone in this thread.
I have called them bad, I have said that their play sucks, and that they are in general useless for town. All of these things are game-relevant and actually pretty important.
If you're referring to the fact that I said your agreement with syllo cements my opinion that syllo is wrong, then yes, you deserved that (and no, it is not ad hominem.)
It is my opinion that syllo is wrong, and your agreement is bad. That's just indicative of you being bad. Since Dr. H also agrees with syllo, and his posting has been quite shitty, I think he's scum.
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote: So maybe you could cut down on them. Also, my neck is fucking killing me so I'm probably a bit cranky right now.
@RebirthOfLeGenD So, redFF or BloodyC0bbler, who's it gonna be?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out that your opinion is worth next to nothing since it's clearly wrong.
On February 22 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: Dang it, I'm a sucker for blue claims. Funny to see the votes pile up on red after the claim, rather than before. On one hand, a mafia player who is set to die should always be claiming blue, but on the other, his claim ties up a potential roleblocker. Tracker is a tricky claim because even confirming it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a mafia stalker or something. I'll be keeping my vote on him for the moment.
Now to everyone else:
I've enjoyed comedy hour with Jackal, but his filter is completely void of content. Not a single post showing he isn't just along for the ride.
Toad appears to be going through post-Arkham depression or something. A lot of fluff and he isn't very willing to share his reads.
On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote: Okay I don't think that redFF is scum because he's been pretty out there. The scummiest he has done in my opinion is his claim which was oddly timed. Right now he's a terribly easy lynch, because we'll have to lynch him at some point. I'd like to see wherebugsgo explain how everything redFF has done can be explained by scum motivation and can not be explained by town motivation. The worst thing about this whole redFF thing is that the lynch is so easy that everybody can just pile onto him and then the day is kinda ruined, we aren't going to find anybody else. I don't think that redFF is scum because he's just been putting himself too much in the line of fire.
On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote: I'll vote redFF to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that. But like, redFF probably isn't scum, come on. There's also plenty good in having him around since scum can't role block anybody else no matter redFF's alignment. The lynch today comes down to "We very likely have to lynch redFF at some point, should it be today or do we have something better?". Right now, I think it's too early to say.
These two statements by prpl completely contradict each other. You argue how you don't think red is scum, but you're willing to vote him to avoid no lynch? How does that make sense? If you're going to argue that he really is blue, then of course a no lynch would be more beneficial. How about push a different lynch if red isn't your priority? This is really poor from him.
I know I already picked on Dirkzor for his language, but I'm going to do it again.
On February 22 2012 05:03 Dirkzor wrote: Wat? I'm glad you have that big confidence in my ability as town but I can't magicly make me notice scum... I notice what I notice when I notice it. And when I do I post it. So far this game I got jack.
Lack of aggression and confidence.
I love you so much right now.
However, if you turn out to be the godfather I will hate myself forever.
On February 22 2012 11:56 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo Ad hominems are really fucking stupid in this game. There are hardly any new players you could hope to bully into anything. All you can achieve is make people dislike you which will reduce your town pull, or maybe starting a pissing contest that will make it harder for meaningful discussion to take place while cluttering up the thread.
I haven't personally attacked anyone in this thread.
I have called them bad, I have said that their play sucks, and that they are in general useless for town. All of these things are game-relevant and actually pretty important.
If you're referring to the fact that I said your agreement with syllo cements my opinion that syllo is wrong, then yes, you deserved that (and no, it is not ad hominem.)
It is my opinion that syllo is wrong, and your agreement is bad. That's just indicative of you being bad. Since Dr. H also agrees with syllo, and his posting has been quite shitty, I think he's scum.
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote: So maybe you could cut down on them. Also, my neck is fucking killing me so I'm probably a bit cranky right now.
@RebirthOfLeGenD So, redFF or BloodyC0bbler, who's it gonna be?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out that your opinion is worth next to nothing since it's clearly wrong.
Why would I be your second strongest read rather than syllo, in this case?
Because you sheeped and syllogism didn't.
prpl would be a scumread too if he was normally any good. But, it's nothing out of the ordinary to expect prplhz to make a bad argument, so despite the fact that he agrees with an opinion I disagree with it isn't alignment indicative for him.
Can you logically demonstrate why any case against BC is terrible instead of simply stating that it is and FOSing the people who suspect him?
I probably could, but I don't have to, since the burden of proof is on you. If you want to convince someone to vote BC you need to come up with a convincing argument first. For now, since your vote reason is poor, no one has a reason to follow you.
On February 22 2012 12:56 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo My point is that, you knew before you joined this game that I'm stupid and you probably knew a lot of other people are stupid and that it's very unlikely that we've suddenly improved rapidly. You knew this unless you are stupid. Were you stupid? This is the situation you have put yourself in. Now you're throwing ad hominems around (yes, saying that player Y is more likely to be wrong because of the mere fact that player X agrees with him is an ad hominem on player X) and that's just making people think you're an asshole, clouding their judgement in emotions, which you should expect it to do. You know this unless you are stupid. Are you stupid? I like Jackal58 more right now just because he said he'd shoot you to make this game more enjoyable, that doesn't really make sense but that's how it is. This is the situation you've put yourself in, you're actively not making the best of it and you can't explain that away.
I'm sorry but this made me laugh repeatedly because of how absolutely convoluted it is.
In fact, this entire discussion is completely worthless because you're just butthurt and you can't handle being called bad.
If you want people to lynch BC, then you need to come up with a convincing argument for him being scum. Until then, there's little else for me to do but ridicule you because you can't handle my style of play. My style of play is directed at forcing people into reacting certain ways. So far your reactions haven't made you look that great.
My roleblocker point was the same that kitaman27 just made, redFF's existence ties up a roleblocker if they have one. If redFF is scum and they roleblock somebody else they force redFF to make his findings public which would give us more info to base a lynch on, which is good. If redFF is town then we get some hopefully juicy information, which is good.
Very little of this is true, mostly because it's largely WIFOM.
We don't know what the optimal choice for scum would be if redFF is town. No one knows what his role is except redFF himself. He could be lying and he could be telling the truth; how do we know? Can you find anything that would help us determine this?
Also, if I were scum and redFF was town I'd personally probably not even bother roleblocking redFF because the simple knowledge that he claimed tracker would let me manipulate his standing in town. There are some players, on the other hand, who I know would roleblock him 100% if they were scum in that situation.
If he's scum he either fake claims roleblock or he claims a fake result. Since he claimed tracker, neither of these scenarios helps us determine his alignment.
It's even worse because in this setup roleblock notifications are not sent out (or at least that's what it says in the OP). Thus, only blues with an action that returns the same night (as in, DT-type roles) would 100% know that they were roleblocked. Vigis who shot have to consider the possibility that their targets were protected, doctors whose targets die would have to consider that their target got double stacked, etc.
Imagine a setup where the scumteam has a rolecop and a roleblocker. They roleblock and cop the same person at once and then if they turn out to be anything other than a DT-type role anyone on the scumteam can fakeclaim a roleblock. How do you deal with that?
So, essentially, if redFF is scum, we leave him alive today and that's one bad thing. Tomorrow we'll have to deal with either a roleblock claim or a result claim, neither of which will help us find out his alignment because both are possible from both alignments.
On February 22 2012 12:56 prplhz wrote: @kitaman27 I thought it was majority lynch back then so I said that I'd vote redFF to avoid no lynch. I think it's plurality lynch now and we'll see what I do. I'm pretty sure I said in a game not 4 months ago that I prefer no-lynches to lynches. Right now, I'm contradicting myself and that makes me scum? If I back down them I'm also contradicting myself (cf. the argument you made against redFF in the beginning of this game) and this also making me scum?
On February 22 2012 12:56 prplhz wrote: I support lynches because redFF could conceivably be scum, I just don't think so. I just like a flip and this is my subjective opinion, it doesn't really make sense to discuss it right now.
I'm not concerned because at no point was your argument ever convincing that he's scum.
Again, as I said before, the burden of proof is on you. If you want to tell me BC is scum and that I should vote for him, come up with a convincing argument for him being scum. So far, you've told me that you think he's scum based on his "lack of activity" and the fact that "his posts jump out to me as scummy." Neither of these things is at all alignment-indicative, so why are you stretching to pretend as if your argument is worth more than it really is? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that an argument of "this guy has posted five times and he looks scummy" is god awful.
In fact, what you just said is more a soft-defend of redFF than it is an accusation of BC.
On February 22 2012 15:55 VisceraEyes wrote: And BC is your strongest read right now Syllo? Like, without question?
Did you ever get around to looking at the whole WBG/chaoser thing sir? I feel like that exchange means something. chaoser's defense was solid, but I didn't mind WBG's attack either.
However, chaoser still seems to be interested in finding scum, while WBG has only recently been calling red scum...he's been tunneled in on chaoser ever since that argument.
I'm starting to get a red read on WBG.
did you just accuse me of tunneling chaoser?
LOL.
I guess you don't know what tunneling means. If you want to see me tunneling chaoser, look at Steamship.
Based on my skim and what I haven't already said I believe that prplhz is scum. RedFF is still a good lynch, and if he flips red IMO we need to 100% kill prplhz.
On February 23 2012 06:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Why is that scummy? It's a completely valid point, in fact the signup post even implies there is a third party.
Because a town player questions if a scummy player is scum. A scum player questions if a scum player is third party. They know he can't be scum.
On February 22 2012 20:00 Tyrran wrote: Okay so here is my final point of view on the redFF case:
I wanst sold on his lynch until his claim. But this claim is so bad that it got me thinking that he really is scum. As I stated, before, and as multiple people stated several time in the thread, town gains nothing from this claim. You've got to wonder : What does redFF gain by claiming day 1 if he is town ? Maybe he'll avoid the lynch. But then how is he going to avoid mafia KP/Roleblock ? How does he expect to be useful later on ? As town, it doesnt really make sense to claim.
He then spends 3 post explaining that it would be a bad idea to lynch him now that he has claimed :
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote: inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.
On February 22 2012 07:19 redFF wrote: Yeah usually its not good to lynch a claimed blue day 1. If scum it forces them to produce results and stick to a claim and later in the game questions are raised as to why they are not dead yet. So yeah you don't lynch claimed blues day 1. Obviously this isn't in line with wbg's school of mafia thought though.
Yes that's exactly what i expect.
On February 22 2012 07:21 redFF wrote: If pretty much all the major town voices are intent on wagoning me then claiming at 24 hours in and giving us another 24 hours to set up a lynch seems like a pretty good time.
If i claimed with 12 hours left the wagon might have gotten too big and people may have not gotten back in time to unvote.
All this seems weird to me. His defence seems to be focused around "Dont Lynch Me plzplzplz " instead of " I can still be usefull" and aroud " look I'm not scum" instead of "look I'm town". This makes me think he is scum.
I'll be here until deadline, so my wote can still change if he somehow manage to convince me that he is not scum. But ragequitting makes me think that wont be the case.
##Vote redFF
Is this the amount of effort you intend to put into this game as well or did you actually roll scuml? Just going to sheep bad wagons and not evaluate all the evidence? Have you read my thoughts on redff? Don't you find it weird that there is almost no resistance at all to the wagon? Your point about him claiming early isn't very good as redff gave a reasonable explanation for the claim and if he was scum, he could have fake claimed a better role anyway. It was likely that he was going to be forced to claim anyway at some point and claiming a bit earlier gives us time to discuss what we think about it. As his relatively early claim makes sense from point scum and town perspective and it's not really possible to determine which is more likely, it's a null tell. He can still be useful by being alive, tying roleblocker or even by taking a bullet. A tracker is not a DT in terms of usefulness.
I may be wrong about redff and that's always the possibility in mafia, but the evidence suggests otherwise and as such you should be voting for someone else, preferably BC.
syllo I agree with most of what you are saying about Tyrran, but I think the bolded should be considered more carefully now.
Looking at the voting record, at the time you posted this BC only had about 3 votes. However, after that there was considerable resistance to the redFF wagon from what I can tell. BC got incredibly close to being lynched (which honestly in itself is retarded). So what's weird to find about this? Well, it for sure means one thing, and that's town was unsure of who to lynch. This leaves only two possibilities to me: both of redFF and BC are town, or one of them is scum.
IMO I actually like the idea that one of them is scum, because in light of that it makes the BC wagon make more sense. You started it, and people started sheeping it for dumb reasons (ex. prplhz, Dr. H) While I didn't agree with the rationale for calling BC scum, I didn't have a problem with there being an alternative. The problem was that people like prplhz and Dr. H sheeped it so quickly. This is indicative, in my opinion, of your wagon being used as a counter to redFF's. This is most likely if redFF was actually scum and BC town. I think it probably started out a bit slowly because BC is a relatively harder target to lynch than redFF. However I bet if redFF actually was scum then we are likely to find scum on BC's wagon.
I also disagree with you with regards to what he claimed, since we have no idea what the setup looks like. What better role could he have claimed? Claiming DT is practically the same (albeit a claim of a stronger role) and I can't think of anything else that for scum or town is completely neutral.
Also, I wanted to point this out:
On February 23 2012 02:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: "The wagon formed too fast" is not really an adequate rebuttal to the entire case that redFF is scum. I doubt he will come to defend himself, hasn't he ragequit the game because WBG called him bad? I'd expect there is resistance, but if scum plays that badly town can overwhelm the mafia resistance and in this case if I'm scum I'd be looking for an alternative lynch to push.
What's weird about Dr. H is that he's always straddling the line between calling redFF scum and not calling him scum.
Right here his vote is still on BC but he actually says "If I were scum i'd be looking for an alternative lynch to push."
Guess what BC's wagon was? The alternative lynch.
Most troubling is the fact that Dr. H's actions don't quite line up with his words. He's also quite wishy washy, never really taking a proper stance for or against one lynch or the other. Indeed at the end he switched back to redFF. He admits here that saying the bandwagon is moving too fast is not an adequate rebuttal to the case that redFF is scum. So if his vote was on BC why didn't he adequately rebut the case himself?
So far all I'm seeing from our resident doc is sheeping and lack of backbone.
On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time.
of course BC was the alternative lynch, you don't need flips to realize that there were pretty much only two realistic possibilities for lynch yesterday.
The fact that you seemed relatively aloof the entire time concerns me. Why does it seem that you cared so little about who we ultimately lynched?
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
On February 23 2012 09:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm trying to be calm, I'm certainly interested in what happens. Do you expect me to be screaming and spamming for scum on Day 1? I was for the RedFF lynch and changed my vote to pressure BC. I changed it back during a time when it could have very easily gone either way. If I feel incredibly strong about a lynch or a case I will take more time to read filters/the thread and push it harder. I felt pretty good about redFF. I didn't feel the need to use "backbone" to strong arm the lynch when it already had a huge majority of the votes. That's just noise. Especially when redFF isn't even responding.
BC was the second lynch but when you use the word 'alternative' are you trying to imply that I was defending red by voting for BC? That I was doing the exact scum plan that I explained in my post? Why does it even matter if BC was the second bandwagon, that implies nothing about my alignment and has absolutely nothing to do with the original point I was making which was only about why scum would not need to act majorly defensive about RedFF or outwardly "resist" the bandwagon.
I'm also not disagreeing that BC is the "alternate lynch", and I didn't say that. I said it was a nonpoint. It is the alternative lynch but it doesn't matter and gives you no information about my alignment. You're trying to make it look like I contradicted myself in this post:
"The wagon formed too fast" is not really an adequate rebuttal to the entire case that redFF is scum. I doubt he will come to defend himself, hasn't he ragequit the game because WBG called him bad? I'd expect there is resistance, but if scum plays that badly town can overwhelm the mafia resistance and in this case if I'm scum I'd be looking for an alternative lynch to push.
when I did not. I don't need you to tell me how the votes happened, I'm aware of it and it doesn't help anybody.
The fact that I second guess myself a lot might make me seem aloof. I'm just not going to call people stupid and spam worthless one-liners like "youre scum" over and over again. Usually I post a lot and it's very clear how my mind changes from thought to thought and is demonstrated throughout my posts (see: insane mafia 1, salem mafia) but I'm not gonna clutter up the thread this time. I told myself I wouldn't spam in Arkham City and that's exactly what I did. Do you have any other criticisms
I find it even funnier that you're basically flipping out when I've barely prodded you yet.
I haven't implied anything, yet you are jumping to conclusions. Immediately you jump to this conclusion:
BC was the second lynch but when you use the word 'alternative' are you trying to imply that I was defending red by voting for BC? That I was doing the exact scum plan that I explained in my post? Why does it even matter if BC was the second bandwagon, that implies nothing about my alignment and has absolutely nothing to do with the original point I was making which was only about why scum would not need to act majorly defensive about RedFF or outwardly "resist" the bandwagon.
Why do you seem so scared of me coming to this conclusion?
No one knows redFF's alignment, but you seem oddly fixated on the implications of that fact. It's as if you have knowledge that I don't. Why so quick to cover your ass when I haven't even fully accused you of anything?
I wouldn't say today was a total wash. We ended up getting rid of someone who would've given townies headaches regardless of his alignment.
I'd say that's considerably better than lynching BC and then having him flip ??? and not knowing jack shit about whether we got rid of a dangerous scum or one of the better townies in this game.
Sure, BC probably isn't the best townie ever but he's definitely better than 90% of the players in this game.
On February 23 2012 10:51 chaoser wrote: sorry, i've been out all day, still at the er but will be back at 9:30 to be able to read. i thought about it and redff is still the best lynch for today unless we're 100% seeing more scummy activity from someone else. if we don't lynch him today, his status will again be at the forefront of town discussion, stifling a lot of our scum hunting abilities since the red dilemma will still be present. i am suspicious of blazing and bc though and i hope to study their case more. in any case, i'm keeping my vote on red today
On February 23 2012 06:06 Blazinghand wrote: So the case on BC is
All he's basically done is argue with jackal He's mad for no reason he jumped on the redFF wagon he hasn't been helpful He's BC, and these things together are uncharismatic of both town play but also BC play in general, town or scum. However we'd be lynching the crap out of him if he were anyone else Layabout doesn't want to get shot
and this is more convincing than the case against redFF>
On February 23 2012 06:11 Blazinghand wrote: Alright lets roll this wagon across the finish line. I'll vote him I anticipate this will earn me lots of town credit and you guys will be like "wow blazinghand what a fortuitous voteswitch, that makes you a good person" and send me chocolates and stuff but you don't have my address so I won't get any which is really actually good since I'm trying to lose weight
On February 23 2012 06:17 Blazinghand wrote: dude layabout we kind of need another vote and there's like 40 minutes left, get over here
Ok those 3 posts worry me A LOT right now. Anyone got the same feeling?
first post is okay, second post is wtf is that and third post is whatever
On February 23 2012 11:49 Toadesstern wrote: do you think I found a townie who is scared as hell and therefore makes no sense to protect himself or do you think I found a mafia that makes no sense because he has to put his vote somewhere?
I basicly interpret his first post as "well guys, I read the cases on BC and THAT'S all you got? Seriously? And you're considering voting BC because of just that?" and goes on to say what he said in his 2nd and 3rd post. That's just so wtf.
from sheerly how bad his play is I'd say he's more likely to be scum.
He's posting less than what I saw him post in purgatory (which is good) but his posts have changed in demeanor enough that I think on meta basis alone I'd call him scum.
On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not.
X(
Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough....
I'm sorry but how does "null as fuck" turn into "scum"?
On February 24 2012 05:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't actually see any reason for anyone of any alignment to ever say what you just said.
Anyway, need to know basis. I have no vested interest in answering any questions ATM.
He's trying to say that he expected a stronger attack from you, and the fact that you backed off surprised him-- WBG is not known for pulling his punches.
On February 24 2012 05:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't actually see any reason for anyone of any alignment to ever say what you just said.
Anyway, need to know basis. I have no vested interest in answering any questions ATM.
He's trying to say that he expected a stronger attack from you, and the fact that you backed off surprised him-- WBG is not known for pulling his punches.
I find it funny that you're talking for him.
Are you his scumbuddy by chance?
@syllo same thing I said to Dr. H.
I find it funny that you weren't able to understand him.
Are you illiterate by chance?
Who says I couldn't understand him?
The two of you seem so bothered by all of this. It's really hilarious.
BH are you scared of me? Is that why you're relying on unsubstantiated assumptions to try and lower my credibility?
On February 24 2012 05:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't actually see any reason for anyone of any alignment to ever say what you just said.
Anyway, need to know basis. I have no vested interest in answering any questions ATM.
He's trying to say that he expected a stronger attack from you, and the fact that you backed off surprised him-- WBG is not known for pulling his punches.
I find it funny that you're talking for him.
Are you his scumbuddy by chance?
@syllo same thing I said to Dr. H.
I find it funny that you weren't able to understand him.
Are you illiterate by chance?
Who says I couldn't understand him?
The two of you seem so bothered by all of this. It's really hilarious.
BH are you scared of me? Is that why you're relying on unsubstantiated assumptions to try and lower my credibility?
Man you were like "what do you mean by this" and I'm like "uh its kinda obvious" I don't see the problem here
On February 24 2012 06:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I wasn't wishy washy regarding redFF, I just changed my mind.
Why so many ants in your pants, Dr. H? It seems like you're boiling over but I've given you no reason to be so nervous.
Worried about the pressure? Certainly seems like it.
Going half the day saying 'Dude he can be this way regardless of his alignment', while true, constitutes being wishy-washy Bugs, whether you decided by lynch time to "change your mind" or not.
It doesn't seem like DocH is worried about pressure at all. It seems like you're trying to get him flustered.
WAT
Nope, go read the events of the day again.
In particular I couldn't stand the whole "if I get RBed then lynch me" thing because that was basically him just asking to get lynched. Sounded entirely like a bluff to me, and I am not scared at all in calling out bluffs.
also I was one of the earlier people to vote because I couldn't be around at lynch time...so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Okay deadline soon and class as well (so even if I'm alive I won't be on till much later. Midterms )
My thoughts ATM:
If I die, 100% kill Dr. H. Last time when he was scum I pressured him (albeit harder and during the day, since I actually had time) and then ended up dying. Right now his actions are weird in that certain things he is saying make sense, but other things do not. I'm not very sure on his alignment and many of the things he said recently (particularly what he pointed out about RoL's stance on BC and his agreement with me about VE) make sense. If I'm alive I'll have to strongly reconsider my thoughts on him. Gut says scum, and I can't figure out why.
VE and RoL are both good lynches for today, IMO. I would also support killing prplhz, who has been completely inactive over the last 24 hours and said some incredibly strange things day 1. He seemed to sheep syllo just to sheep syllo, with no real opinions of his own. Sure, it's great to follow syllo's lead if he's town, but not everything syllo says is infallible (and yes, if I die please please please listen to syllogism. If he's scum he won't keep the charade up long since his scum confidence is low but at this point I doubt he actually is scum.)
VE is a good lynch basically because he said BC was null but then he repeatedly called him scum. His actions don't line up with his words and his scum list, as Dr. h said, looks very similar to the bs he was writing in Arkham City.
RoL is a good lynch because he voted redFF but said BC was scummy.
-said BC was "null" but also somehow scummy enough to vote -has written fluff posts that are incredibly similar to those from Arkham City -calls me wishy washy but deliberately avoids calling me scum or even scummy because of it
VE is scummily annoying but I think BH is more concerning right now.
The fact that BH unvoted BC after one post and has so far done jack shit is indicative that he has no vested interest in actually finding scum. Indeed, in his own post he admits that the case he wrote isn't even his own case. It's like he doesn't want to take heat for pushing BC but wants to be a part of the (now seemingly dead) bandwagon.
Also what's funny is that VE is still saying BC is scum but hasn't voted him yet.
oh look now he votes some random ass lurker who has next to no chance of actually getting lynched. 0 response to my vote on him and 0 response to what BC asked. It's like he just wants to move on and avoid the pressure.
Anyone seeing a pattern here? Solution = kill Blazinghand.
On February 24 2012 10:07 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like risk.nuke. He did nothing but make some vague complaints about redFF, then nakedly voted BC with no explanation, and when questioned, was like:
On February 23 2012 06:46 risk.nuke wrote:
On February 23 2012 06:42 Dirkzor wrote: 15 min to lynch.
Risk you are around?!? Any thought instead of just voting BC?!
Yeah I don't want to lynch redFF, just got home. So I threw my vote on BC because I like syllo.
And has since disappeared from the thread. He's probably hanging out with his scumteam being like "hey guys check out this mad lurking skill" and lurking.
##vote: risk.nuke
and I don't like that you don't like him because I don't like him either
] If that's the case, then make your own read and judge this indepently for yourself. I think he's scum and am voting him, and would like you to do so as well-- but if you don't think he's scum simply because you are suspicious of me, try to just do an objective analysis of him and see what you think
what the fuck
YOU CALLED OUT RISK NUKE BASED ON THE POST BC QUOTED
LOL WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS
How can you call someone out and tell them to make an original case when you basically just sheeped someone else?
On February 24 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: VE is scummily annoying but I think BH is more concerning right now.
The fact that BH unvoted BC after one post and has so far done jack shit is indicative that he has no vested interest in actually finding scum. Indeed, in his own post he admits that the case he wrote isn't even his own case. It's like he doesn't want to take heat for pushing BC but wants to be a part of the (now seemingly dead) bandwagon.
Also what's funny is that VE is still saying BC is scum but hasn't voted him yet.
Get ready for the pain WBG. It's coming. I'm hyping because your butt is going to be SOOOOOOO HUUUUURT.
if you are town you are fucking retarded for not seeing how scummy BH is right now
On February 24 2012 10:07 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like risk.nuke. He did nothing but make some vague complaints about redFF, then nakedly voted BC with no explanation, and when questioned, was like:
On February 23 2012 06:46 risk.nuke wrote:
On February 23 2012 06:42 Dirkzor wrote: 15 min to lynch.
Risk you are around?!? Any thought instead of just voting BC?!
Yeah I don't want to lynch redFF, just got home. So I threw my vote on BC because I like syllo.
And has since disappeared from the thread. He's probably hanging out with his scumteam being like "hey guys check out this mad lurking skill" and lurking.
##vote: risk.nuke
and I don't like that you don't like him because I don't like him either
] If that's the case, then make your own read and judge this indepently for yourself. I think he's scum and am voting him, and would like you to do so as well-- but if you don't think he's scum simply because you are suspicious of me, try to just do an objective analysis of him and see what you think
what the fuck
YOU CALLED OUT RISK NUKE BASED ON THE POST BC QUOTED
LOL WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS
How can you call someone out and tell them to make an original case when you basically just sheeped someone else?
is my analysis wrong
what analysis? You called him a lurker and then voted him.
Literally all you did was rip off the quote that BC pointed out, say nothing that isn't already public knowledge, and then vote risk.nuke.
Then, you turned around and called out Toad for "not making an original case" when you didn't make one yourself!
Everyone, take a look at this shit:
On February 24 2012 09:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: However lets move onto some of my reads instead of people I have on my watch list.
Risk.nuke
This guy is someone who has done nothing to help the town while coming out with stellar posts like
Now, why do I mention risk nuke? Simple. The two posts I quoted imo show a high level of anti town sentiment via play. Why you ask? Town has no reason to not spend some time figuring out the main points of a case. Voting once perhaps but given that he was posting at various points throughout the day he would have known the arguments against myself and redff to be able to give an actual opinion on which he felt should be lynched. Actively admitting to sheeping a player without actually justifying a vote is very scumlike in my eyes.
Following it up with the "don't lynch someone who claimed tracker day 1" is also very very suspect to me as well. I say this because by allowing someone to claim a role day 1 that is not confirmable via action day 1 only opens them up to potential role tampering. You could get roleblocked, your target always seems to die, your checks mysteriously are wrong, etc.. In these cases said player would ultimately die to town regardless of alignment.
It also opens a level of credibility the player does not deserve. People instantly see a role that is normally a pro town role and instantly assume that player is town. If the claim is fake, or the role is in mafia hands this leads to a player being "confirmed" when they in fact are not. Obviously a player could be the role they claimed, but given that you will never be able to confirm their role / alignment without outing another role or killing said player it is never ideal to let them stay alive.
Both of the posts I mentioned are extremely suspect in my eyes for reasons I posted, he also has alot of what I would deem fluff posts which are not really helpful in any way.
As of now I will say most likely scum and will cement my read as he continues to post.
compare that to BH's vote post:
On February 24 2012 10:07 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like risk.nuke. He did nothing but make some vague complaints about redFF, then nakedly voted BC with no explanation, and when questioned, was like:
On February 23 2012 06:42 Dirkzor wrote: 15 min to lynch.
Risk you are around?!? Any thought instead of just voting BC?!
Yeah I don't want to lynch redFF, just got home. So I threw my vote on BC because I like syllo.
And has since disappeared from the thread. He's probably hanging out with his scumteam being like "hey guys check out this mad lurking skill" and lurking.
On February 24 2012 10:07 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like risk.nuke. He did nothing but make some vague complaints about redFF, then nakedly voted BC with no explanation, and when questioned, was like:
On February 23 2012 06:46 risk.nuke wrote:
On February 23 2012 06:42 Dirkzor wrote: 15 min to lynch.
Risk you are around?!? Any thought instead of just voting BC?!
Yeah I don't want to lynch redFF, just got home. So I threw my vote on BC because I like syllo.
And has since disappeared from the thread. He's probably hanging out with his scumteam being like "hey guys check out this mad lurking skill" and lurking.
##vote: risk.nuke
and I don't like that you don't like him because I don't like him either
] If that's the case, then make your own read and judge this indepently for yourself. I think he's scum and am voting him, and would like you to do so as well-- but if you don't think he's scum simply because you are suspicious of me, try to just do an objective analysis of him and see what you think
On February 24 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: VE is scummily annoying but I think BH is more concerning right now.
The fact that BH unvoted BC after one post and has so far done jack shit is indicative that he has no vested interest in actually finding scum. Indeed, in his own post he admits that the case he wrote isn't even his own case. It's like he doesn't want to take heat for pushing BC but wants to be a part of the (now seemingly dead) bandwagon.
Also what's funny is that VE is still saying BC is scum but hasn't voted him yet.
Get ready for the pain WBG. It's coming. I'm hyping because your butt is going to be SOOOOOOO HUUUUURT.
if you are town you are fucking retarded for not seeing how scummy BH is right now
I mean, you're just clearly not even paying attention. So I'm going to stop responding to you until I respond to your case.
On February 24 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote: Okay deadline soon and class as well (so even if I'm alive I won't be on till much later. Midterms )
My thoughts ATM:
If I die, 100% kill Dr. H. Last time when he was scum I pressured him (albeit harder and during the day, since I actually had time) and then ended up dying. Right now his actions are weird in that certain things he is saying make sense, but other things do not. I'm not very sure on his alignment and many of the things he said recently (particularly what he pointed out about RoL's stance on BC and his agreement with me about VE) make sense. If I'm alive I'll have to strongly reconsider my thoughts on him. Gut says scum, and I can't figure out why.
VE and RoL are both good lynches for today, IMO. I would also support killing prplhz, who has been completely inactive over the last 24 hours and said some incredibly strange things day 1. He seemed to sheep syllo just to sheep syllo, with no real opinions of his own. Sure, it's great to follow syllo's lead if he's town, but not everything syllo says is infallible (and yes, if I die please please please listen to syllogism. If he's scum he won't keep the charade up long since his scum confidence is low but at this point I doubt he actually is scum.)
VE is a good lynch basically because he said BC was null but then he repeatedly called him scum. His actions don't line up with his words and his scum list, as Dr. h said, looks very similar to the bs he was writing in Arkham City.
RoL is a good lynch because he voted redFF but said BC was scummy.
On February 24 2012 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote: Alright I'm not gonna be back till later:
##vote VisceraEyes
Points of note:
-said BC was "null" but also somehow scummy enough to vote -has written fluff posts that are incredibly similar to those from Arkham City -calls me wishy washy but deliberately avoids calling me scum or even scummy because of it
Let me just attack the points of note, because they're easier to digest and they pretty clearly outline his entire gripe with me.
- "said BC was "null" but aslo somehow scummy enough to vote"
First of all, here is the post I assume WBG is referring to.
On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not.
X(
Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough....
I never EVER said that BC himself was "null". I said that the action of him angrily and hastily throwing together posts was null as fuck. I then go on to say that with the rest of BC's behavior outside the anger and hasty annoyed posts, referring to his nudge of redFF, lack of commitment to a read of red, failure to address the concerns I brought forward after his first appearance in thread, etc., seems incriminating to me. This post is me asking Jackal why the fuck BC lived and redFF died after claiming Tracker. I never at any point say that I have a 'null' read on BC, I'm not in the business of pushing my 'null' reads' wagons to the very last minute.
So you've stooped to discussing semantics, I see.
On February 24 2012 10:47 VisceraEyes wrote: -"has written fluff posts similar to BCAC"
This is cute, especially coming from WBG. Mafia is a social game. If all I've been doing had been making fluff posts with no content, this would be a valid point. However, I've put forward more content in D1 than WBG has all game. Easily. EASILY WBG FUCKING HANDS DOWN.
If by content you mean repeatedly calling me scum (which I don't consider content because you're wrong) and sheeping syllo's case on BC after contradicting yourself on redFF, sure.
This is incredibly funny since you actually accused me of being wishy washy on redFF...when you basically did the opposite of what I did! You went from calling redFF sure scum to voting BC when the votes on redFF started getting serious.
On February 24 2012 10:47 VisceraEyes wrote: -"calls me wishy washy but deliberately avoids calling me scum or even scummy because of it"
On February 22 2012 15:55 VisceraEyes wrote: And BC is your strongest read right now Syllo? Like, without question?
Did you ever get around to looking at the whole WBG/chaoser thing sir? I feel like that exchange means something. chaoser's defense was solid, but I didn't mind WBG's attack either.
However, chaoser still seems to be interested in finding scum, while WBG has only recently been calling red scum...he's been tunneled in on chaoser ever since that argument.
I'm starting to get a red read on WBG.
did you just accuse me of tunneling chaoser?
LOL.
I guess you don't know what tunneling means. If you want to see me tunneling chaoser, look at Steamship.
On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's End BloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence.
wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post. Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there.
RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY.
I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice.
Admittedly I actually never saw this post. That's completely my bad. My bad.
On February 24 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not.
I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound.
Okay, this is deliberate misrepresentation.
You bring up a post that calls me scum AFTER I say that, and use that as a reference for when you called me scum?
Okay, I was in the process of dropping you as a scum candidate because of some of the things you said, but this is deliberate misrepresentation and it is scummy as fuck. I really highly doubt a townie would try to make another player look bad by taking something that happened AFTER I said something to simply try and prove a point.
On February 24 2012 10:47 VisceraEyes wrote: WBG is latching onto DocH's case without doing a thing himself. He's not even interested in my side, he hasn't asked questions, he's just throwing shit to see what sticks. Nothing is going to fucking stick. Because it's all bullshit. It's a bullshit case built on someone else's legwork who (no offense Doc) is probably just pissed that I had them fooled last game with my scum play.
I never even read Doctor H's case on you, because quite honestly I stopped paying attention to Dr. H after I stopped pressuring him at the end of the night phase.
On February 24 2012 10:47 VisceraEyes wrote: He's bouncing around, hoping someone somewhere will take what he's doing as effort, but I think most everyone here is smarter than that.
the fuck?
I'm pretty sure that's what Blazinghand is doing.
At any rate, what's annoying me is that I can't reconcile the stark differences in your play. You've either become considerably harder to read as scum or you've gone back to being shitty at town.
There's the proving a point thing and your overall stretching to call me scum that makes you look really scummy, but then your overall effort and presence look like what you did in Responsibility.
On February 24 2012 13:13 VisceraEyes wrote: You'll also notice that he completely disregards the fact that I'm wholeheartedly down with a BH lynch as if he's not even reading the fucking thread prplhz. He goes on and on about how I'm scum, but suddenly changes heart, says a BH lynch is more prudent, makes sure to say he still thinks I'm scum, but appeals to me for help getting BH lynched? Even though I'm totally down with a BH lynch?!
On February 24 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: VE is scummily annoying but I think BH is more concerning right now.
The fact that BH unvoted BC after one post and has so far done jack shit is indicative that he has no vested interest in actually finding scum. Indeed, in his own post he admits that the case he wrote isn't even his own case. It's like he doesn't want to take heat for pushing BC but wants to be a part of the (now seemingly dead) bandwagon.
Also what's funny is that VE is still saying BC is scum but hasn't voted him yet.
Get ready for the pain WBG. It's coming. I'm hyping because your butt is going to be SOOOOOOO HUUUUURT.
if you are town you are fucking retarded for not seeing how scummy BH is right now
I mean, you're just clearly not even paying attention. So I'm going to stop responding to you until I respond to your case.
wtf is this opposite day?
BH JUST CLAIMED SCUM
stop being thick and start reading
I don't know if everyone else quit reading WBG's derp when I did, but I just noticed this: our first vote of the day was WBG on me, based on a shoddy 'case'. Now, I hadn't refuted his nonsense yet, in fact had done nothing but antagonize him. Yet this post seems to indicate that he knows I'm town. Why would he tell me to 'stop being thick and start reading' if he actually thinks I'm scum? Why would I give a shit if BH claimed scum if I were his scum-buddy?
WBG is scum guys, and he claimed it hilariously by telling me that BH claimed scum. How's that for irony?
Stretching.
That's what you are doing to try and make me look like I'm scum.
It's as if you've assumed I'm scum and then based everything I've said around that assumption, which is quite frankly retarded. That's probably why I'm so annoyed right now, because I can't fathom how stupid someone must be to think I am scum this game.
I'm recalling something Toad said before, and I now feel his pain lol. It was something like "everyone calls me scum when I'm town and when I'm scum I look uber town". roughly
On February 24 2012 13:23 VisceraEyes wrote: No comment on me owning your steaming pile of shit case?
okay fuck it this post is actually important
solely based on your arrogance and confidence, and since I don't think you'd have the balls as scum to get in a head to head fight with me, I don't think you're scum.
I also think some of the things you've pointed out are too true for you to be scum. Example, this:
You will notice the majority of the first page is spent calling other players bad. He spends many many many long posts describing RedFF's meta, calling him a bad player, only to come to the conclusion that this means RedFF is unreadable and thus not worth really lynching. The page ends with some of the most wishy washy play I've ever seen.
The problem with redFF is, how do you tell? I suppose we could just lynch him anyway, but then we aren't really lynching someone we surely think is scum. At that point we're just lynching to punish bad play.
While I'm not opposed to lynching people who play badly in this game, I think we can look into finding scum in people who are easier to read than redFF. Reading players who are generally detrimental when they play town has never been my strong suit.
We can lynch RedFF, but it's probably not good, but then again I'm not really opposed to it but let's try something else
If the missing/no-flip/whatever it is thing is indeed a scum power, I don't think scum would unanimously support that lynch, or any lynch in the game for that matter really.
On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
On February 21 2012 14:26 Blazinghand wrote: So your contention is "redFF is playing as bad town rather than scum", and although lynching bad town isn't the worst thing we could do, it's substantially preferable to lynch scum. This is a fair point. I will reread thread.
you're still wrong, but whatever.
My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true)
I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding.
I find this post quite amusing considering WBG has called me scum for having "no backbone" and not making a super strong scum read on Day 1. Apply your own logic to your own play please.
but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done.
I doubt scum redFF would publically announce "good job i took your bait" but it is a suspect post nonetheless.
WBG seems more interested in upsetting me and keeping me flustered than making a real case. This is literally the exact strategy scum devised to deal with me in Arkham City where he was scum. Radfield knew I would be a threat if somebody didn't distract/harass me because to be honest as town I am horrible under pressure and a threat otherwise. Huge reason I'm trying to slow down and keep it cool this game. Posting so much in Arkham City kept me out of the loop and distracted more than anything and I performed terribly in that game past maybe the first half of the first day.
Quotes from the AC scum QT: "JJ, if you want to go after DocH, please do. Timezones aren't that important, and neither is getting into direct arguments... motivation is . The important thing is that post you think he is scum(and why), and try to convince others. He needs to be spending his time defending himself, and not spending his time digging around. DocH is very strong if you let him run freely."
"One of us becomes the DocH harasser. They push him from the get go, and ideally even argue with him."
"DocH is extremely solid if you let him get his feet under him, so we need to rattle him and keep him rattled. I think one of our team members goals should be to keep DocH off balance and call him scum at every turn"
(all from radfield directing the other mafia)
This "pressure" you're putting on me is bullshit. I'm asking simple questions (something that you seem to have no problem doing) and you're making it out to seem that I'm really upset and defensive. If, in fact, WBG is scum this does absolutely nothing to clear VE or RoL. In the AC quicktopic you can see WBG and others calling out and criticizing VE's play and he'd make kind of the ideal target for a bus.
It is what it is. I'll be reading more closely to determine where my first vote will go. I'm torn between RoL, WBG, and Dirkzor and really need to see how VisceraEyes and BloodyC0bbler play today.
I hope you have a real response instead of some stupid ass one liner like "you scum bro" or "wow haha so defensive you're scum" while you wait for your team to help you formulate a real response
Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not.
However, your logic is shit.
Yes, I poke people regardless of alignment because my style of play is actually very similar to Palmar's (and we've talked about this once IIRC).
However, I don't even know if you've ever even seen me play town, so I don't know where you get the idea that my play this game is somehow different from my town play. How can you even say that if you've never even seen my town play to begin with?
Like, the only games I can recall playing with you are Responsibility and Arkham, both of which I was scum.
I just remembered we played in L and we were both town IIRC. And you called me scum repeatedly after like a day or two. Now I remember why I think your town play is atrocious -_-
running theme = anyone who calls me scum when I'm town I call atrocious town (even if they don't really deserve it all the time like prpl LOL)
running theme = anyone who calls me scum when I'm town I call atrocious town (even if they don't really deserve it all the time like prpl LOL)
You realize how counter-productive that is right? I mean, OMGUS is one of the leading causes of mislynches. Ask any scientist.
calling them bad usually doesn't equate to calling them scum.
it's a great way to poke people into reacting certain ways.I remember I did it to prpl in PYP:I on day 1 and I basically caught him as scum instantly. But the lucky bastard claimed something in PMs that left him alive till the last day.
I did the exact same thing to chaoser that same game and then harassed him in PMs for a good 4-5 hours. His reaction was almost identical, oddly enough.
running theme = anyone who calls me scum when I'm town I call atrocious town (even if they don't really deserve it all the time like prpl LOL)
You realize how counter-productive that is right? I mean, OMGUS is one of the leading causes of mislynches. Ask any scientist.
calling them bad usually doesn't equate to calling them scum.
it's a great way to poke people into reacting certain ways.I remember I did it to prpl in PYP:I on day 1 and I basically caught him as scum instantly. But the lucky bastard claimed something in PMs that left him alive till the last day.
I did the exact same thing to chaoser that same game and then harassed him in PMs for a good 4-5 hours. His reaction was almost identical, oddly enough.
I get the tactic, but it's annoying as piss and makes people trying to rationally find scum wade through this shit and wonder if you're being manipulative scum or just an asshole townie.
And you've been defending BC. Like WHY THE FUCK bugs? And what about syllo's play is reading scum to you? These are the things I'm having difficulty reconciling.
Why not? BC's not been playing like scum to me. Nothing he's done has stood out.
The most important thing to note is that his town play in general is not well-known for being good. In fact, I would say it's rather bad in comparison to his scum play (no offense BC). I'm sure players like syllo and Jackal and kita, who have played here much longer than I, can attest to this as well.
Second, in the massive game where we lynched Youngminii day 1, I recall BC not even having a proper lynch target despite being a mayoral candidate day 1. I remember that part of my frustration day 1 in trying to get a read on BC (the first game I'd ever played with him) was that he just seemed so damn lazy. He was town that game, and yet really didn't do anything except mention his DT plan and then make a few posts about the mayoral candidacy before day 2. Once Ace arrived in the game I think he started doing more, but that was already at least a day in.
Third, from what I remember about the massive game, where he tunneled Palmar relentlessly, and L where he kept wondering whether people actually read his posts, BC HATES play that is in eyes, stupid or just doesn't make sense. He rightfully called out Palmar that game for not playing as well as he should have, but ultimately I didn't agree with the case on Palmar that game. Clearly, he was wrong about Palmar's alignment (as was Ace, if you guys remember.) In addition, both of those games I've played with BC he also got suspicion for being scary as scum, which I found hilarious. I myself took what BC was doing in XLVII as scummy and I pushed him hard day 2 for being so retardedly stubborn about Palmar. I was wrong though, and I saw why. People have this inherent fear of good mafia players, so they're predisposed to thinking that anything they do that's slightly out of line is indicative of them being scum. This is just a fear mechanism though; it's not logical and it rarely is effective.
Based on that, when BC agreed with me about redFF and voted him I was not in the least bit surprised because I fully expected him to jump on the play. This didn't make me for sure convinced that he was town, but I wanted to see what he would post in the coming days if I was right or not.
Another thing is his attack of risk.nuke. That makes sense to me from a town perspective as well because of how dumb what risk.nuke said is.
On February 24 2012 09:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Following it up with the "don't lynch someone who claimed tracker day 1" is also very very suspect to me as well. I say this because by allowing someone to claim a role day 1 that is not confirmable via action day 1 only opens them up to potential role tampering. You could get roleblocked, your target always seems to die, your checks mysteriously are wrong, etc.. In these cases said player would ultimately die to town regardless of alignment.
It also opens a level of credibility the player does not deserve. People instantly see a role that is normally a pro town role and instantly assume that player is town. If the claim is fake, or the role is in mafia hands this leads to a player being "confirmed" when they in fact are not. Obviously a player could be the role they claimed, but given that you will never be able to confirm their role / alignment without outing another role or killing said player it is never ideal to let them stay alive.
Both of the posts I mentioned are extremely suspect in my eyes for reasons I posted, he also has alot of what I would deem fluff posts which are not really helpful in any way.
As of now I will say most likely scum and will cement my read as he continues to post.
Anyone recall what the BC role in the PYP series is? It's a fucking vig that only shoots roleclaimers.
BC as town hates roleclaimers. With that in mind, reread the quote above where BC talks about risk.nuke's retardedness in regard to day 1 claimers not getting lynched.
Lastly, and this is most important, look at the voting pattern yesterday. When the redFF lynch caught steam so did BC's wagon. There was little, if any resistance, to the BC lynch. If BC was actually scum I seriously doubt he'd be in a position where he'd almost get lynched day 1. I think such a revered scum player such as BC would have at least the pride to prevent such an occurrence, and indeed I think his scumteam would realize how valuable BC as a player is and would take steps to prevent that as well.
I think based on the activity it's far more likely that BC is town and was getting pushed as an alternative to the redFF lynch. Regardless of redFF's alignment it would clearly be better for scum to lynch a town BC. If redFF was scum, it would mean they could save redFF and kill BC. If redFF was town, they could kill a "better" townie, so-to-speak.
I never even read Doctor H's case on you, because quite honestly I stopped paying attention to Dr. H after I stopped pressuring him at the end of the night phase.
I'm not very sure on his alignment and many of the things he said recently (particularly what he pointed out about RoL's stance on BC and his agreement with me about VE) make sense.
Doesn't this imply the opposite? I don't like that you brought up LotR mafia either. That isn't any good reason to say I'm 100% scum if you die. Especially if we are both town, scum now has a higher incentive to hit you just to push my lynch. You tunneled me pretty hard in that game if i recall barely since I quit after the first Day.
There's only two times I've ever died n1 in a game:
Swedish House where I was the traitor and scum couldn't aim at players, they aimed at traits. First ever game.
LoTR, where you were scum and I pushed you super hard day 1.
Granted, this game I didn't push you as hard because I wasn't as confident. I'm still not completely confident on my read of you but I think I've got one that's correct. However, if I died n1 after pressuring you I would want the town to lynch you, that's only logical. I have no idea why kita would say to kill jackal if he died, but I'm sure he has his reasons as well.
Also, I was exaggerating; I read everything but honestly I find your posts harder to read through than anyone else's. I have no idea why, but often I find myself questioning whether I actually understood what you were saying I finish reading.
I'll likely be voting for VE or RoL this day though. VE you act so damn arrogant and then when it comes time for you to actually make your statements you're getting picked apart, lose confidence, and back away. You want to call WBG scum but you don't want to commit to the vote. Why not? Why would you change your vote to BH the person that your #1 scumread is bandwagoning? Why would you assume WBG is just scum giving you BH to survive? He is certainly capable of arguing against you and any bandwagon that would exist on WBG has zero traction at the time being, this is the only reason I could think of for switching your vote.
The fact that you're being so dramatic in this game leads me to believe you're putting on an act. All the UGH's and NOOO's and emoticons and all this shit, I might take another look through your responsibility filter but it seems you were pretty on point by then. It seems like you're trying to please everybody and lay suspicion at the same time, I guess. That's the best way I can put it.
While some of these are good points, VE tends to be dramatic regardless of his alignment.
Not quite sure that's a tell in either direction tbh
On February 24 2012 14:43 prplhz wrote: So, why didn't his wagon pick up steam? You are saying that regardless of redFF's alignment, BloodyC0bbler would be a better lynch for scum unless he was scum. Furthermore, scum could avoid a huge deal of the fallout from a BloodyC0bbler mislynch by hiding the flip as it appears that they did. Your defense of BloodyC0bbler is primarily based on meta, something that the bulk of players in this game does not have. Do you think that Blazinghand is a scum who tried to get a town BloodyC0bbler lynched? He switched from redFF to BloodyC0bbler on shitty out-of-character reasonable at a crucial moment.
yes, that is actually precisely what I think.
It's supported 100% by the fact that BH unvoted BC today as soon as BC made ONE post defending himself. I'm not even sure he managed to read all of it, because the unvote came so quickly after BC posted.
Also, I disagree with you completely that meta is unavailable to the bulk of players in this game. They can go ahead and read BC's filters from those games an compare the posts to this game. It's not hard.
In fact, as you played in those games I don't see why you aren't using those resources yourself.
On February 24 2012 14:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Any further discussion on what I would/wouldn't do if I'm scum and you're town is WIFOM anyway. I could go for not hitting you to get town cred since you're unsure, I can hit you and then say that scum hit you to push my lynch, all are viable.
If I'm town you've just given scum a reason to kill you now, in a sense.
When you say you're not paying attention to me when you're done pressuring it sounds worrying. This sounds like "My bandwagon didn't go anywhere so I moved on." If you really thought I was scum or had suspicion there's no reason to stop paying attention. If you are scum looking for a fake bandwagon to start that sort of reasoning makes a lot of sense. If you can't keep up pressure without drawing heat on yourself then you have no real reason to take an interest in what I'm doing. I'm being very nitpicky but I want to be careful, carelessness in AC and other games has caused me to drop a lot of very good reads and miss details. I feel it's likely you just worded that badly but I'm not sold on you.
And what's so doubtful about his presence in this game? It's not much unlike his presence in AC really, it makes sense he would be posting more this time around. I pointed out what I saw as the differences in his metagame. If that is holding you back I suggest you go back to my post on RoL/Dirk/VE and read that part.
I sense there's some sort of disconnect here.
Have you noticed that I've been responding differently to you in the last couple of pages?
Since you're not stupid, don't you think you can infer why?
hint: it's the same reason I stopped pressuring you.+ Show Spoiler +
super hint: there's actually a really good reason why you should stop pressuring someone.+ Show Spoiler +
answer: GASP it's because I don't actually think you're scum anymore
Normally I don't spell it out to people, since they breathe a sigh of relief once I switch targets. But you, it's almost like you WANT to get tunneled!
actually same question to chaoser, since you said this:
On February 23 2012 10:51 chaoser wrote: sorry, i've been out all day, still at the er but will be back at 9:30 to be able to read. i thought about it and redff is still the best lynch for today unless we're 100% seeing more scummy activity from someone else. if we don't lynch him today, his status will again be at the forefront of town discussion, stifling a lot of our scum hunting abilities since the red dilemma will still be present. i am suspicious of blazing and bc though and i hope to study their case more. in any case, i'm keeping my vote on red today
I believe it's well past 9:30 (whatever U.S. timezone you're in, I forgot) but still nothing.
On February 25 2012 04:08 VisceraEyes wrote: My case on you BH is based almost solely on meta and I've said this. You're clearly not looking for scum, you're just hopping on bandwagons started by veterans because in your experience those are the bandwagons that end up being successful. It's transparant as hell and it's why I want you to hang.
But as a side-note, your posts ARE useless, but because I don't find that indicative of alignment, merely of skill, I've left that out.
Alright, well consider then my vote on BC both at the end of the lynch yesterday and after the start of the day today. Surely if I were going to hide, I'd hide in a successful wagon?
I really don't understand how your filter has 7 pages and not one post in there is worth anything.
You're not scum hunting, you're not defending yourself, you're not...doing anything.
This is a great way to either get ignored or lynched. The former is great for scum and the latter is great for...village idiot. Personally I don't find village idiot likely, seeing as I've never seen a game on this forum with one in the game. However, how else is anyone supposed to explain your play?
At the moment I have no way to tell but I lean inactive town based on the fact that I doubt he'd have the balls to troll and post gifs as scum.
Very few players are that gutsy as scum, IMO. Just look at regular trolls here: Kurumi only trolls when he's town and then when he's scum he's all serious because he's afraid of getting caught. Trolling brings you negative attention and I don't think he would do that unless he wasn't scared.
Also I suppose I'm biased since BH attacked risk and I think BH is scum. On a slightly related note, based on the way BH refuses to comment on RoL he makes both himself and RoL look terrible.
On February 25 2012 05:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Also I suppose I'm biased since BH attacked risk and I think BH is scum. On a slightly related note, based on the way BH refuses to comment on RoL he makes both himself and RoL look terrible.
There was a time yesterday when BH was a legitimate lynch candidate, yet I can't really find you commenting on him. Was there a reason that changed your mind or was it simply because you felt red was the better lynch?
BH became a lynch candidate while I was gone.
I basically wasn't around for 15ish hours prior to the lynch; sleep + class + shit. When I came back I noticed the BC counterwagon had grown to like 6 votes and BH randomly had votes. I didn't really even look at BH day 1, I was mostly concerned with redFF, Dr. H, and VE.
I feel you Toad; I said the exact same thing about VE earlier.
Generally though if someone is exhibiting both tells I just ignore them until I'm forced to deal with them. BH is nothing but scum and RoL is nothing but lurk so it's easy killings either way.
On February 25 2012 10:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Hey BH I have a question for you. Why is it that you are so suspicious of me yet so far have posted cases on people that I have pushed? Why is it that your cases are all rehashes of other peoples cases? Why is it that you seem to not possess a single original thought of your own in this entire game? Why are you so fing hostile to people who have done nothing but question you on valid reasons?
You appear to be buddying yourself up to me hard core yet stated you think I am mafia. As such you would have no reason to look at the people I point at and then rehash my entire arguments. Not only that but you quote the same posts I used for my case on risk.nuke. It looks scummy as hell then add in your general behaviour now you seem like the best lynch at this moment.
##vote Blazinghand
I'm not your buddy pal
lawl I love watching you contradict yourself over and over
On February 25 2012 10:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Hey BH I have a question for you. Why is it that you are so suspicious of me yet so far have posted cases on people that I have pushed? Why is it that your cases are all rehashes of other peoples cases? Why is it that you seem to not possess a single original thought of your own in this entire game? Why are you so fing hostile to people who have done nothing but question you on valid reasons?
You appear to be buddying yourself up to me hard core yet stated you think I am mafia. As such you would have no reason to look at the people I point at and then rehash my entire arguments. Not only that but you quote the same posts I used for my case on risk.nuke. It looks scummy as hell then add in your general behaviour now you seem like the best lynch at this moment.
##vote Blazinghand
I'm not your buddy pal
lawl I love watching you contradict yourself over and over
On February 25 2012 05:55 Blazinghand wrote: Jitsu: I don't like the fact that after an aggressive, questioning, and generally pro-town Day 1, he's been basically MIA. This guy can be an asset to the town, but currently he's being lazy / lurking. I'd like him to contribute more today rather than just sitting on his D1 contributions and resting.
Tyrran: After a decent case on redFF, he moves his vote onto me with a decent justification.
Then, for the past 48 hours (basically since the no flip) He has made two posts, one of which was like "oh hey there was no flip" and the other of which commented somewhat unusefully on what's been said.
;_; that's totally not chillaxin man. These guys need to step up their D2 game
You mean this post where you said he was pro town? To me this isn't you pushing a case, this is you asking for someone to be more active.
Nothing you has posed in any of your posts against jitsu is actually a case, its just pressure to be active. Give me something real not fake.
I didn't say I pushed a case. Tell me where I said I pushed a case on Jitsu.
Oh, hey, you can't, cause you're misrepping me like a member of congress
You actively analyzed his posts and although never made a "case" you were obviously pushing him as a potential scum. However, to use your own words against you.
On February 25 2012 09:15 Blazinghand wrote:
On February 25 2012 09:12 Jitsu wrote: And yet, my first scum read (Dirkzor) was later reinforced by DocH, who is now acting like a fool.
Pretty funny if you ask me.
How about you? Do you think i'm scum? I ask you, since DocH is obviously too afraid to say so one way or another.
I think you're responding to this, the briefest and lightest of pressures, in a scummier fashion than I'd expect out of you. I think your town play is solid. I can't yet definitively say you're scum, and I have bigger fish to fry at the moment, but I don't like the way you've handled this.
This divisive and generally unhelpful "do you think i'm scum" stuff isn't even what this is about. My main criticism of your play is the sudden dearth of content and pressure I've seen today. The proper response to this isn't to flip out and start asking people "DO YOU THINK IM SCUM HUH" or say "oh I have no idea what my reads are.
The proper response is to make cases, hunt scum, and help town.
Yet here we are.
This here is actually a "case" you made yet you deny making a case? So does that mean that as all you have done is rehash peoples arguments and not pushed your own targets and thus not actively hunted scum you have already broken the advice you gave Jitsu? What about all the spam one liners and insults you have recently posted which is also not helpful to town.
You are denying making a case, (although I believe you did, making a case even if its only used as suspicion is still a case), and have not been helpful to town at all today, and your "scum hunting" is spotty at best so that would make you a hypocrite and thus must be scum by your own reasoning.
I didn't say I didn't make a case, I said I didn't say I made a case. You said I said I made a case and I said I called him out.
On February 25 2012 10:14 wherebugsgo wrote: I feel you Toad; I said the exact same thing about VE earlier.
Generally though if someone is exhibiting both tells I just ignore them until I'm forced to deal with them. BH is nothing but scum and RoL is nothing but lurk so it's easy killings either way.
the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar.
If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to.
Sad story, isn't it?
However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL.
You seem to care an awful lot about how town perceives you
On February 25 2012 10:14 wherebugsgo wrote: I feel you Toad; I said the exact same thing about VE earlier.
Generally though if someone is exhibiting both tells I just ignore them until I'm forced to deal with them. BH is nothing but scum and RoL is nothing but lurk so it's easy killings either way.
the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar.
If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to.
Sad story, isn't it?
However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL.
You seem to care an awful lot about how town perceives you
yeah because believe or not, I don't want to be lynched no matter if I rolled mafia or town. Because in both scenarios being lynched is not helping my team. So what you're telling me is that you successfully figured out I'm not a VI? But that's of course wifom. I could totally be a VI trying to look pro-town to try and look like I don't want to be lynched. That would be so ingenious. Just imagine the faces of the people: "We're totally lynching that pro-town playing guy ololol" and the moment I flip VI they're all like W T F. + Show Spoiler +
Just for clarification: Yes parts of this posts were sarcasm and are not meant to be taken seriously + Show Spoiler +
it's the second part
if you think BH is scum then vote for him
if you're town you're the last person who would get lynched if he flipped town, the fact that you're worried enough about town perspective on your own guilt to vote based on that openly is highly suspicious
Tell that wbg. He tried to lynch me in L ALL GAME LONG for saying Palmar is town, BC as mayor lynched Palmar d1 and guess what? The guy flipped town. WBG went nuts on me for the reason I stated above and said there's no way I could have possibly get that read if people like him, Supersoft, Jackal (?) and BC all thought Palmar was mafia.
It's all based on a true story dude. I'm not even making this up, that's the sad part here.
stop crying Toad, you're German and your country decimated the Jews, you have no room for sob stories
On February 26 2012 04:47 risk.nuke wrote: ##vote Blazinghand
...
That guy needs to be dead. Not a mention here, no explanasion, no reasoning, nothing. If risk.nuke ends up being town I'll eat my hat... and the only hat I've got is a big one with feathers and all that shit because of some oktoberfest-like festival.
Actually he did post some "justification" and he also said if BH flips scum we should kill Jitsu.
I have no clue why, but then again that's probably because it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of a player who basically ignores half of the goings-on in the game.
We should 100% kill RoL if he is alive by morning.
He's continually promised more and his promise of more was just a shitty case on Dr. H.
Right now I'm fairly tired of reading and/or responding to retarded posts that I pretty much know are being made by townies, since it's just a waste of time. So from now on I'm just going to ignore that stuff and focus on things I find scummy.
On February 26 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: We should 100% kill RoL if he is alive by morning.
He's continually promised more and his promise of more was just a shitty case on Dr. H.
Right now I'm fairly tired of reading and/or responding to retarded posts that I pretty much know are being made by townies, since it's just a waste of time. So from now on I'm just going to ignore that stuff and focus on things I find scummy.
are you at least telling me if that's me, DocH or Tyrran you're referring to if you're not willing to talk about it?
What are you suggesting we do with people like Risk and Chaoser? Clearly they have no interest in proving that they're town.
half of your posts are not worth responding to, ones like this are okay.
I'm fine with killing chaoser, but risk.nuke I'm not so sure about because he's done some weird things that I don't think a scum would do. I think he's one of the dumber townies.
On February 26 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: We should 100% kill RoL if he is alive by morning.
He's continually promised more and his promise of more was just a shitty case on Dr. H.
Right now I'm fairly tired of reading and/or responding to retarded posts that I pretty much know are being made by townies, since it's just a waste of time. So from now on I'm just going to ignore that stuff and focus on things I find scummy.
are you at least telling me if that's me, DocH or Tyrran you're referring to if you're not willing to talk about it?
What are you suggesting we do with people like Risk and Chaoser? Clearly they have no interest in proving that they're town.
half of your posts are not worth responding to, ones like this are okay.
I'm fine with killing chaoser, but risk.nuke I'm not so sure about because he's done some weird things that I don't think a scum would do. I think he's one of the dumber townies.
Why are you okay with killing chaoser but not risk? Chaoser said he was busy and will start posting soon (tm) while risk is doing that on purpose.
replace "chaoser" with RoL and tell me why we shouldn't kill him.
On February 26 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: We should 100% kill RoL if he is alive by morning.
He's continually promised more and his promise of more was just a shitty case on Dr. H.
Right now I'm fairly tired of reading and/or responding to retarded posts that I pretty much know are being made by townies, since it's just a waste of time. So from now on I'm just going to ignore that stuff and focus on things I find scummy.
are you at least telling me if that's me, DocH or Tyrran you're referring to if you're not willing to talk about it?
What are you suggesting we do with people like Risk and Chaoser? Clearly they have no interest in proving that they're town.
half of your posts are not worth responding to, ones like this are okay.
I'm fine with killing chaoser, but risk.nuke I'm not so sure about because he's done some weird things that I don't think a scum would do. I think he's one of the dumber townies.
Why are you okay with killing chaoser but not risk? Chaoser said he was busy and will start posting soon (tm) while risk is doing that on purpose.
replace "chaoser" with RoL and tell me why we shouldn't kill him.
Never said we should ignore him. I'm justs not mentioning him because I never played with him and therefore don't know what he's usually playing like.
anyway here's what I want you to do:
read risk's filter, and tell me what you find in there that shows you that he's scum.
I'm not trying to influence you here; I just want to see your thought process.
On February 26 2012 10:07 wherebugsgo wrote: We should 100% kill RoL if he is alive by morning.
He's continually promised more and his promise of more was just a shitty case on Dr. H.
Right now I'm fairly tired of reading and/or responding to retarded posts that I pretty much know are being made by townies, since it's just a waste of time. So from now on I'm just going to ignore that stuff and focus on things I find scummy.
are you at least telling me if that's me, DocH or Tyrran you're referring to if you're not willing to talk about it?
What are you suggesting we do with people like Risk and Chaoser? Clearly they have no interest in proving that they're town.
half of your posts are not worth responding to, ones like this are okay.
I'm fine with killing chaoser, but risk.nuke I'm not so sure about because he's done some weird things that I don't think a scum would do. I think he's one of the dumber townies.
Why are you okay with killing chaoser but not risk? Chaoser said he was busy and will start posting soon (tm) while risk is doing that on purpose.
replace "chaoser" with RoL and tell me why we shouldn't kill him.
Never said we should ignore him. I'm justs not mentioning him because I never played with him and therefore don't know what he's usually playing like.
anyway here's what I want you to do:
read risk's filter, and tell me what you find in there that shows you that he's scum.
Nothing because there's not much in there. There's also nothing that makes him look townish. Leaves us with a nullread who refuses to play protown. Yes I am very much willing to lynch people who refuse to play this game and / or refuse to play protown if it's apparent that it's not lack of time that's getting in the way.
so why did you have such a problem with lynching BH?
On February 26 2012 10:59 Toadesstern wrote:That's btw the reason I'd have done that one:
On February 26 2012 10:31 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm fine with killing chaoser, but risk.nuke I'm not so sure about.
the other way around.
Yes I know you are referring to his posts like the one if the giv and the fact that he is playing boldly. Remember what you said in the little discussion about my claim in AC a couple days ago when I said that's something a mafia player would not do? You said that's wifom becaus there are players that would take the risk to get shot by CW as mafia knowing that it will look townish. How is it that you think that's possible but at the same time think that just because of posts like the one with that gif you think he has to be town?
The caveat is that I think experienced mafia would do it. I would do it.
No offense to risk as I've never actually seen his scum play, but judging from his overall understanding of the game I seriously doubt he'd be good enough at scum to troll and be so bold.
@Jitsu stop spouting nonsense, syllo was 100% the only person who was playing with any sense. By talking about other hits you're just begging to speculate about scum goals. Which, unless you are scum this game, you have zero ideas about.
On February 28 2012 04:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think Dirkzor/Toadesstern are mafia
BC's town hasn't been impressive this game at all. Yes he is (according to everyone else here) a semi-god who plays a sick mafia but his townplay so far has not impressed me at all. Neither did it in L. Not saying it's bad, just not what I expected after everyone yelling "omfg BC top 3 players on TL" (or whatever).
Assumption that BC is town. This either means that he knows BC's alignment is town (meaning scum or DT) or that they are both scum and Toades is afraid to say anything suspicious of BC. Dunno.
I've actually seen RoL play this badly as town before. I think he ragequit Salem after someone accused him of being scum. It made him so angry that he flamed the shit out of the guy (idr who it was) then roleclaimed and left the game.
100% agree with you, on Toad, that is a massive scumslip.
Toad already "knows" BC is town wtf. He'd be a great alternative to a RoL lynch.
Dirkzor, however, I have no read on. I don't really know what his meta is and I don't see anything particularly of note in his filter. Can't say much there.
@Kita: you've been awful quiet all game. Care to explain what you think right now?
@RoL: you're fucking lucky Toad scumslipped so hard, or I'd be pushing you like there's no tomorrow. All you do is lurk lurk lurk and then make excuses for your inactivity. That's exactly what you did when we were teammates in Couples Therapy and it's what you did (IIRC) in Purgatory as well.
@VE: You're going on a posting spree because you were inactive for 48 hours, not because you actually want to find scum. The fact that you consider me scum after having played on the same team as me in BC's game is indicative of you having malicious goals. You're not town this game and you need to die as well.
TL;DR: kill Toad, RoL, VE.
If we ensure that the votes stay between these 3 players I'm confident we will hit only scum today.
Most damning about Toad is that he's trying to twist BC's well-known SCUM META into well-known all-around (which just isn't true.)
I pointed this out specifically earlier in the game to see who is actually reading the thread; BC's town play, in comparison to his scum play, is awful. Just look at XLVII where he tunneled Palmar for 2 goddamn days. Toad either deliberately ignored this, or he's not reading the thread: neither of these things tell me we have a town Toad.
He should know all of this without me even saying anything, but yet he still asserts the opposite, which suggests he is scum. Why would any townie try to assert something they should know is completely untrue? Right now he's riding the line between BC being scum and town, which is suspiciously indicative of him trying to make an accusation that will stick with some player in the game.
And no, I'm not ruling out the possibility that any of you are town. I just consider it too implausible considering the things you and VE have said and the things RoL hasn't.
I'm not surprised you would try to shed doubt on my position like that. It's what I'd expect scared scum to do, anyway.
On February 28 2012 05:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Oh wait it was scara who got modkilled in Salem right? I got him confused with RoL.
@Toades
It isn't a scumslip to say he's pretty sure these 3 guys are scum. You're grasping at straws defensively, it's really obvious to me now.
It's not about what he says but what he clearly leaves out. He says those 3 guys are mafia. He votes me. He says we should keep our votes between those 3 people. He DOES NOT SAY that we need to focus on one guy to not give mafia a chance to manipulate this vote. He simpyl votes me, leaving you with the choice of what to do now. There is no way Town-WBG would do such a thing.
No way I would do that as town? Clearly you have no interest in conveying the truth, or, for that matter, even finding it.
Look at any game I've played of this size and you'll see that my strategy as town is nearly identical every game: make a list of players I find scummy, and then focus town into killing them all. I don't focus on one player in bigger games because townies dissent so much that it's too hard. Instead, I call out the people not voting for those players and force them into contributing.
Granted, I don't have the presence or activity this game to do all of that, because of school, but my mindset is still the same.
Proof:
XLV: I make lists of people I'm fine with killing, harass people in PMs about people on my list, scrutinize Mig's list, etc. I didn't play well, but that's basically how it went.
Steamship: I push chaoser/nisani day 1 and then say we should lynch all the people who voted on the three town wagons on day 1 and 2. I basically pushed for the lynch of like four people at once.
XLVII: This is probably the most obvious one, since the game was huge. I made a list of TEN people day 1 and told town "kill any of them." And I continually updated this list throughout the game.
Mafia L: I don't remember what I did here other than tunnel Palmar day 1 and then troll when I had no impact. I didn't play well.
Point 1 : the fact that you are misrepresenting my town play is indicative of you stretching to find an argument to call me scum.
On February 28 2012 06:08 Toadesstern wrote: Ok here's what's strange about wbg in one big post instead of 4 scattered posts:
On February 21 2012 09:59 wherebugsgo wrote: VE stfu you suck
Everyone else sucks marginally less ATM. Mostly chaoser is doing the least sucking.
Blazinghand learn to play
I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl. Till then I suggest you all brush up on Ver's guide since the last page has made my eyes bleed.
That is essentually the wbg we all now. Yes he's a bit rough but he usually does that to get some reactions and see what people think about each other. He loves to do posts like that as town because a lot of people get offended and therefore repeat to a post like that. Keep that in mind. That's his very first post and that is Town-WBG, but we got several posts that are nothing like his usual town style. Also keep in mind impersonating that kind of style is pretty easy because you only need to know how to be a dick, you don't actually have to say something of use.
This is my first post in the game and is in no way indicative of my alignment, unless you're clairvoyant.
In fact, I was actually trolling VE because he said he was waiting for a bunch of people to come into the thread and tell him he sucks and to shut up. So I did.
Again, the fact that you are trying to make something out of nothing is indicative of extreme stretching. Yes, some of the things you're saying are true, but none of them help your argument at all.
On February 28 2012 06:08 Toadesstern wrote: Ok here's an impression from Chaoser:
On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia.
chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite?
kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser?
Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players.
yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM).
Here's a thing about wbg's Mafia style: He tries to impersonate the dick he is when playing town but from time to time buddies people or is brownnosing. Chaoser had that feeling, I had that feeling about him as well. WBG really isn't the kind of guy that tells people they're good within a game because of his immense ego. Never ever.
On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia.
chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite?
kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser?
Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players.
yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM).
sup
##vote chaoser
Ho boy, what are YOUR thoughts on redFF Bugs? I see you're now offended by chaoser's play in spite of him "doing the least sucking"...you completely ignore my case on redFF and stick a vote on the guy doing "the least sucking" in-thread?
Something is..........not right here. Maybe I need a break from the thread for a bit.
redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him.
He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts.
Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments.
As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence.
Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads?
I mean come on. Yeah fine I get why you list myself and risk, but the rest? But that's not the point, he really thinks he's that awesome :p
So you're bringing up that chaoser thought I was buddying him, based on me reading 20 posts? rofl.
All that shows is that, at the time I posted that, I had read 20 posts. One page. And yet, you're trying to call me scum for it. Toad u 2 scummy bro
Why do I list the other players? Because I've played with them a lot and I know how to read them. Why the fuck do you think I never tried to lynch Jackal or syllo? I can read them more easily than others. Granted, Jackal is harder to read than some other players I've played with before.
Up until redFF called Jackal a good scumhunter I believed redFF was unreadable (I had completely ignored his posts.) I went back and reread and I strongly believed he was scum. So I decided it was best we kill him.
Also, as town I buddy people all the fucking time. I buddied Palmar super hard in Steamship and XLVII, I buddied a whole slew of townies in PYP:I, even on day 1. That was the game I pushed a relatively new Greymist for mayor because I thought he was town day 1. Granted, that was a PM game, but you get the idea.
However, this is all completely irrelevant because you're insinuating something that is untrue; you're saying I defended you, but I never did.
What follows is by far the scummiest thing anyone has done in this thread:
2) I already quoted that earlier and said that looks like mafia-wbg. No way wbg would post such a thing. He loves seeing people defend themselves. Sure I was asleep but town-wbg would not have posted a shit about it. Town wbg would have loved me to wake up the next morning and post something to defend MYSELF because wbg can judge me based on my defense. However, wbg does not need to judge people, he already knows my alignment. Also I got the opinion he's buddying me. He saw me in AC and thought I'm not capable to find mafia and I'll agree my town play really i not the best so he figured I'm a nice buddy-target because telling people I'm town is no threat to mafia if he thinks I'm not capable to catch mafia.
Toad is referring to when I said he wouldn't respond because he's European.
I already explained why I did this, and this is not alignment indicative at all. I'm very aware of activity times because it helps shed light on whether a person is telling the truth or not. In fact, it's a great way to find out whether someone is lying scum, or scum pushing a townie.
Example: supersoft in PYP:I claimed something about having an exam in an hour and then posted during the time he should have been taking the exam. Auto-scum.
When people push others they know will not respond for a while, it's scummy. Pushing a person who is asleep counts. Why would I point out that Toad was asleep? Because I push people I know are asleep as scum. I already explained this once and again it's scummy that Toad is trying to make me look bad because of it. Out-of-game things like schedules are a good way to find scum but only if used correctly.
Keep in mind, last game I played as town I got lynched for not saying anything, when in reality it was impossible for me to say anything. Complete inactivity is not a scumtell.
Now, for whichever townies actually have an interest in winning this game, ask yourself this:
When did I actually call Toad town this game? How is saying "Toad is probably asleep" calling him town?
All I was saying was that Toad's lack of response is not alignment-indicative. That's not calling him town; that's getting the facts straight.
So then you see that, based on one thing I said, that said nothing about Toad's alignment, this shit:
Also I got the opinion he's buddying me. He saw me in AC and thought I'm not capable to find mafia and I'll agree my town play really i not the best so he figured I'm a nice buddy-target because telling people I'm town is no threat to mafia if he thinks I'm not capable to catch mafia.
is just scum stretching; saying I called him town when I did nothing of the sort.
And again here:
Again, why should he defend me like that? That's nothing like wbg.
Misconstruing what I was doing as defending. At no point have I ever defended Toad this game.
I haven't defended anyone this game apart from BC and redFF early in the game. Besides BC, only syllo was worth defending and syllo was never in any danger of being lynched, so there was no point in saying that I thought syllo was town.
This is nothing like my mafia game and I already mentioned it it's pretty easy to figure me out: If there's noone willing to vote me you need to lynch me because I'm mafia. If there's a bunch of random morons argueing about what I possibly meant with that one phrase, who are willing to vote me for saying something that never was intended to be interpreted that way I am townie because I'm to lazy to check what I typed.
The fuck?
so you're admitting you're mafia now? No one's been voting you despite you being scummy as shit all game. Syllo thought you were scum too, but focused on BH+RoL because they were more obvious. Ofc BH was just retarded and we have yet to see RoL flip, but you get the idea.
Lastly this is really convenient for you, because at any point (such as now) where you are mafia and taking votes you can defend yourself by saying as mafia you don't get votes...
which means you wouldn't get lynched. Real convenient, eh? You need to die now.
I'm jumping on town sentiment...how do you know what town sentiment is?
How am I jumping on anyone's sentiment when my vote is on Toad? Or that I think you're scum? Name another person who is agreeing with me about you right now, since it certainly seems like I'm playing a game with no support at all.
Where have you been the last 48 hours? Clearly not helping town win. And you come in now with a bullshit case, 1/3 of which is based on the first post I made, one which was half troll.
I'm done for a while, this is too frustrating. Now I know why syllo told me he wanted to die.
nope. You have no case on me and it's apparent because you cite my first post in order to call me scum. You and Toad are stretching super super hard. You have the audacity to call me scum and you even straight up say I'm leeching on town sentiment as if you already know what the town wants. You wouldn't know for sure what town sentiment is unless you're actually scum. How do you know town sentiment day 1 was redFF and not BC?
I pushed redFF at a time when everyone was UNVOTING HIM. Why the fuck would I do that as scum? That literally makes no sense, as scum if redFF was town that would just make me look bad.
Why the hell would I knowingly subject myself to that shit? I'm aware of my own play, it's not like I'm so bad at scum that I'd go back on everything I said about a player just because I thought town would lynch them. I rarely, if ever, change my mind as scum, because it's dangerous as fuck.
Your redFF push was a fucking joke bugs, and while I was with you on Blazinghand, your little "lynch-limiting" move where you can "guarantee hitting scum" is a fucking farce because I'm included in them and I know I'm fucking town.
Says the guy who called redFF scum for half of day 1.
And you admit that you agreed on Blazinghand but you are somehow not scum for that.
Real great, pushing responsibility for the BH lynch off yourself and onto me. Yeah, I really capitalized on town sentiment when I was the first fucking vote on BH.
Lastly, anyone and their mother can call themselves town, but in this game 4 of those players are liars.
Up until this point, wherebugsgo had only made one solid statement about redFF: he is bad. He makes it very clear to everyone that he wasn't calling red town or scum (because he's capable of being bad regardless of his alignment). So which part was he wrong about?
It implies, subtly, that he used to have a badTown-read on redFF, but that he's having second thoughts and wants a second opinion because he then goes on to vote for redFF because he's "scum".
But he was VERY clear about his stance on redFF: Just Bad. Interestingly enough, his very point on redFF proves that he's being manipulative in this post:
You accuse me of not reading the thread but are privy to it yourself.
Maybe next time you try to forge a case on a townie you could read so you don't make yourself look scum.
Up until this point, wherebugsgo had only made one solid statement about redFF: he is bad. He makes it very clear to everyone that he wasn't calling red town or scum (because he's capable of being bad regardless of his alignment). So which part was he wrong about?
You call me manipulative yet you're manipulating my words right here. I called him UNREADABLE BECAUSE HE WAS BAD. Not just bad. Unreadably bad.
Which part about it was I wrong? THAT HE WAS FUCKING UNREADABLE.
LOL how hard is this to comprehend? You can easily answer your own fucking question, but the reason you don't is because you're trying to make me look bad. fail.
It implies, subtly, that he used to have a badTown-read on redFF, but that he's having second thoughts and wants a second opinion because he then goes on to vote for redFF because he's "scum".
And here's the manipulation.
No, scum, it does not imply that I had a bad town read on redFF. It implies that I thought he was unreadable.
I asked syllo his thoughts yet I later rationalized my disagreement with syllo's opinion. If I were scum why the fuck would I choose to disagree with the best townie in the game?
But he was VERY clear about his stance on redFF: Just Bad. Interestingly enough, his very point on redFF proves that he's being manipulative in this post:
I was very clear, and yet you're trying to change what I said. LOL.
While it's true that "scum motivations" could feasibly explain some (all) of redFF's actions, it's equally feasible to explain them with simply "bad town play". I can absolutely see redFF playing that poorly as town, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played many games with redFF. Regardless, he even throws in there that "he's too much of a liability to keep around" even if he's somehow mistaken in his "read" and redFF flips town.
So what I said was true.
But it wasn't true? the hell?
Lastly; why would I include, as scum, the caveat that you claim would make me look better in the case that redFF flips scum, if I'd know that he wouldn't flip? Presumably as scum I'd know redFF wouldn't flip, so why the fuck would I care?
This is just evidence from D1, and his manipulation only intensifies.
Translation:
this is all the stuff I've been able to fake from day 1, but if people don't believe me I can start bullshitting more stuff from day 2.But I won't now because I want to wait and see if anyone takes the bait.
WBG is pretty high on my list of people I think are scummy in this game but your analysis is bad and coupled with your play earlier in the game I'm inclined to think it's more likely that you're scum. I'm going to reread WBG's filter later but I really think we should lynch Toades today. You agree that it's scummy to vote based on town perception right? A main point in your analysis is WBG asking syllo for his opinion before pushing his case, thus implying WBG is more concerned about how town will view his opinions rather than his own instincts.
If I was scum and I asked syllo his read on redFF to make myself look better I would've chosen to agree with syllo.
Instead I completely disagreed with him and did the exact opposite. So how exactly was I voting according to the perception I got from syllo? If I was actually doing what VE is insinuating I was doing, I would have simply followed syllo's vote.
In fact, I think as scum that's actually a very viable strategy and I'd be more than willing to do it. I've seen sandro do it himself.
But again, I didn't do that...so what's the point here?
On February 28 2012 08:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Let me get this straight VE. In order to be town you must be the first person to ever make a case on someone? I don't recall you doing much of that
if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident??
DoctorHelvetica falling back on meta? Say it isn't so Doc.
I don't know why - maybe he's aware of his 'super-confident' meta and wanted to subvert it? Maybe he thought redFF was the very best mislynch possible and didn't want to spook townies by building a wagon too fast? There are a lot of factors coming into play as scum - take your pick as to why he wouldn't "follow his scum-meta".
according to your logic based on me talking to syllo, this post makes you scum:
On February 25 2012 10:58 VisceraEyes wrote: BC - is this DocH's normal play? It looks to me like he's pouring on the "Hey guys, watch me pressure these noobs!" a little thick...
asking BC for his reads
subtly hinting Dr. H is scum.
today, talks to Dr. H as if he's knowingly talking to a townie, trying to convince him I'm scum.
On February 28 2012 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote: Hey VE,
according to your logic based on me talking to syllo, this post makes you scum:
On February 25 2012 10:58 VisceraEyes wrote: BC - is this DocH's normal play? It looks to me like he's pouring on the "Hey guys, watch me pressure these noobs!" a little thick...
asking BC for his reads
subtly hinting Dr. H is scum.
today, talks to Dr. H as if he's knowingly talking to a townie, trying to convince him I'm scum.
sup scum logic
What I did: subtly poke an inactive-ish player (BloodyC0bbler) a specific question with clear motivation (is this scummy? are you going to contribute?) regarding a controversial player (DocH) who's absolutely NOT a lynch candidate.
What you did: ask an active player (syllogism) a vague question (what are your thoughts) with unclear motivations (you've already said redFF was bad, you hadn't noted any change of opinion as of this post) of a player who's given his opinion on the player you're asking about (RedFF) who was already a lynch candidate.
They're not the same things. Try again scum.
trololol scum can't handle being owned on his own logic
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
On February 21 2012 12:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
Re: Jackal DAAAAYYYUUUUMMMM....
Nosrslytho, who's scum guy? I want drunk Jackal's opinion to compare it with sober Jackal's opinion later XD
On February 21 2012 17:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Syllo what do you think about the back and forth between chaoser and WBG?
It seems genuine, so I doubt it's scum v scum - I can't decide if I think one of them is scum or if they're both town
On February 22 2012 04:04 redFF wrote: I don't really care about chaoser at this stage, haven't paid much attention to him tbh.
Layabout is bad because he berated dirkzor for not finding 3+scum and hasn't stated a read all game.
The fact that you haven't paid much attention to chaoser is....interesting. Wouldn't you say that's interesting syllo?
lastly, something slightly different but it gives you an idea of the angle VE is coming from:
On February 23 2012 10:11 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not sheeping you Doc or I would've voted redFF. I trusted you to do the right thing.
This comes from the person who voted redFF 3 different times on day 1.
This comes from the person who is claiming I am following town sentiment when he called at least (by my count) 8 people scum on day 1, trying to find what would stick.
This comes from the person who is trying to lynch me based on being manipulative yet is, without a doubt, trying to manipulate the lynch right now. Proof is above.
On February 28 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't justify leaving my vote on Toad when prplhz and VE essentially just outted themselves.
##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Visceraeyes
why not prplhz instead? Why not RoL instead? We basicly tried to lynch RoL from d2 (or even d1?), he said nothing, basicly claimed mafia recently and we're still not able to lynch him.
why not prpl-I only have one vote
why not RoL-I only have one vote, and VE is more likely to be scum because the case extends beyond simple meta. In fact as of now we may actually be wrong about RoL and he might just be bored inactive town. Why kill someone who's done almost nothing alignment indicative as opposed to someone who is contradicting himself in logic and flailing around in thread?
If VE flips scum we should certainly look at both prpl and RoL.
If I'm wrong about you (which certainly seems possible now that prpl's shown his ugly face) then there's also some 4th scum out there. I've been asking myself, why did risk.nuke get replaced, in a game with no replacements? We haven't been able to lynch him either, and that's made me wonder for a while.
On February 28 2012 09:02 prplhz wrote: Can you quickly reiterate your problems with VisceraEyes?
1-contradicted himself on logic; calls me scum for one thing when he's done it himself at least 6 times
2-pushes responsibility for day 2 lynch onto me despite supposedly agreeing with the sentiment
3-2 day hole in activity from yesterday, says he'll post before lynch but doesn't
4-makes shit case on me based on my first post and the fact that I can be manipulative as scum
5th and most importantly: talks to people as if he already knows their alignment
Do you think these are indicative of VisceraEyes being scum?
yes, because he as a town player has improved drastically recently; this is something even Palmar has pointed out, and something I've agreed with.
I don't think a town VE would disappear for 2 days and then come back and flail around trying to kill me based on a shitty case.
Also why the fuck have you not done anything? The fact that you are asking me questions now is confusing me further. I didn't even realize you were playing until kita said you were his #1 scumread
On February 28 2012 09:02 prplhz wrote: Can you quickly reiterate your problems with VisceraEyes?
1-contradicted himself on logic; calls me scum for one thing when he's done it himself at least 6 times
2-pushes responsibility for day 2 lynch onto me despite supposedly agreeing with the sentiment
3-2 day hole in activity from yesterday, says he'll post before lynch but doesn't
4-makes shit case on me based on my first post and the fact that I can be manipulative as scum
5th and most importantly: talks to people as if he already knows their alignment
1) I've already explained why the first instance of this you brought up is a completely different thing, which you've not only failed to comment on or refute, but have maliciously tried to discredit simply by saying "he's making shit up"
You didn't explain shit, you just kept asserting that I'm wrong and you're right with no logical basis for either assertion.
I'm not maliciously discrediting you, I'm showing that you're contradicting yourself by calling me scum for things you yourself have repeatedly done.
In fact, the whole point is that what I did is in no way a scum tell for any player. Of course it's ludicrous to call someone scum because they asked another player an opinion. That's the whole point!
On February 28 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: 2) I didn't push responsibility on you for shit - you pushed for Blazinghand, and I said I was with you - this in NO way indicates that I thought you were leading the lynch, only that you pushed it yourself and that at the time I agreed with you. You're scummily trying to twist my words into something you can call scummy, and it's not going to work.
Actually you did, by saying that I was going with town sentiment.
I showed I wasn't going with town sentiment day 2; I led that lynch. Yet, you bring up BH's name in the list of things I've apparently sheeped town with.
Not only is that wrong, it's indicative of you knowing what town sentiment is.
Scummily trying to twist words into something I can call scummy, good one, genius.
On February 28 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: 3) Not indicative of alignment. You know this shit bro.
Inactivity by itself isn't, but saying you'll do something and then not doing it is.
That's the entire fucking case on RoL, scum.
On February 28 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: 4) My case was good, the whole thing was NOT based on your first post. It's was based on your manipulative behavior as a whole on D1. I could make a similar case for D2 and D3, but I feel like this is enough to get you lynched.
LOL only a third of it was, right? rofl.
Another third was calling me manipulative and the last third was based on me changing my mind on redFF. Which you yourself were guilty of 3 times.
On February 28 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: 5) I'm not speaking to anyone as if I know their alignment. Do you know something about DocH that I don't? I'm talking to him assuming he's town because regardless of his alignment, that's the alignment he'd have me believe he is. I'm talking to you like scum because I have a case on you and you're ignoring it - but I similarly don't know your alignment.
Good, so you admit you're assuming he's town.
Thank you, thank you for proving my point that you apparently know he's town already.
Also thank you for giving me information I didn't have before; now I can trust Dr. H.
On February 28 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't justify leaving my vote on Toad when prplhz and VE essentially just outted themselves.
##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Visceraeyes
why not prplhz instead? Why not RoL instead? We basicly tried to lynch RoL from d2 (or even d1?), he said nothing, basicly claimed mafia recently and we're still not able to lynch him.
why not prpl-I only have one vote
why not RoL-I only have one vote, and VE is more likely to be scum because the case extends beyond simple meta. In fact as of now we may actually be wrong about RoL and he might just be bored inactive town. Why kill someone who's done almost nothing alignment indicative as opposed to someone who is contradicting himself in logic and flailing around in thread?
If VE flips scum we should certainly look at both prpl and RoL.
If I'm wrong about you (which certainly seems possible now that prpl's shown his ugly face) then there's also some 4th scum out there. I've been asking myself, why did risk.nuke get replaced, in a game with no replacements? We haven't been able to lynch him either, and that's made me wonder for a while.
How does prpl showing up have anything to do with my alignment?
bc it is extremely unlikely that all 3 of you are scum, IMO.
I guess it's possible that the entire scum team is something like you, prpl, RoL, and VE. In fact I wouldn't be shocked, seeing as I feel like there's no one helping me.
However, I think risk.nuke is more likely to be scum based on the replacement and if prpl is scum you can't be.
On February 28 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't justify leaving my vote on Toad when prplhz and VE essentially just outted themselves.
##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Visceraeyes
why not prplhz instead? Why not RoL instead? We basicly tried to lynch RoL from d2 (or even d1?), he said nothing, basicly claimed mafia recently and we're still not able to lynch him.
why not prpl-I only have one vote
why not RoL-I only have one vote, and VE is more likely to be scum because the case extends beyond simple meta. In fact as of now we may actually be wrong about RoL and he might just be bored inactive town. Why kill someone who's done almost nothing alignment indicative as opposed to someone who is contradicting himself in logic and flailing around in thread?
If VE flips scum we should certainly look at both prpl and RoL.
If I'm wrong about you (which certainly seems possible now that prpl's shown his ugly face) then there's also some 4th scum out there. I've been asking myself, why did risk.nuke get replaced, in a game with no replacements? We haven't been able to lynch him either, and that's made me wonder for a while.
How does prpl showing up have anything to do with my alignment?
uhuh, wait don't answer that one! I found the answer myself:
On February 28 2012 07:33 kitaman27 wrote: Here are my scum power rankings! (anything past 5 may be completely arbitrary) + Show Spoiler [unimportant right now] +
1.) prplhz:
On February 23 2012 03:38 prplhz wrote: What the fuck are you talking about. I complained about the redFF lynch and pushed the BloodyC0bbler lynch.
On February 24 2012 13:02 prplhz wrote: I pushed BloodyC0bbler around the time I said that so it's not true when you say that I didn't provide an alternative.
On day one, prpl hard defends redff from the lynch, without providing an alternate candidate. He claims to have pushed the BC lynch. Lets take a closer look:
On February 23 2012 03:17 prplhz wrote: I think BloodyC0bbler is more scummy, but I think there might be better targets today that I'm more comfortable with. This is like Responsibility Mafia! where BloodyC0bbler was just gone, but he has been scummy so far.
On February 23 2012 03:49 prplhz wrote: Since we have dropped the BloodyC0bbler lynch I think that Blazinghand is a good lynch for town, especially if I'm the alternative.
On February 23 2012 03:54 prplhz wrote: If BloodyC0bbler is a possiblity then I'm more up for that than anything else. I'm a little unsure of him but he's a ton better than lynching me.
On February 23 2012 03:56 prplhz wrote: Like, I think BloodyC0bbler is scummy but I'm always kinda unsure about my reads (because, allegedly, I'm bad).
On February 23 2012 05:24 prplhz wrote: I really doubt that BloodyC0bbler is going to attract enough votes don't you think there are other alternatives that are more likely to flip scum than redFF and more likely to pick up enough votes than BloodyC0bbler?
Is this honestly what prpl considers pushing? A bunch of wishy-washy statements without providing any actual reasoning? He constantly brings up how bad he is as if he is trying to downplay his abilities.
Now lets move on to day two:
He starts off by voting RoL. Towards the end of the day he changes to blazing. His reasoning:
On February 25 2012 18:20 prplhz wrote: Going to vote Blazinghand. I don't see any reason to believe his claim.
##Vote: Blazinghand
The entire game, the strongest reason prpl has believed someone to be scum is because of a Floridian claim. Not once does he even reference his actual posts or behavior. Looking back to day one, prpl was willing to defend red because the claim made sense to him. The next day, a similar claim is provided and he has no reason to believe it.
The entire game prpl has responded poorly to pressure and would be a fine lynch candidate.
2.) RebirthOfLeGenD: You can't get frustrated at peoples concerns if they are legitimate points. You've spent more time defending yourself than contributing. You say you're busy. I can understand that, but the game started a week ago and we're still waiting. The only legitimate case you've given us was on DrH. Is there a reason you chose to ignore my concerns with the case?
3.) chaoser: Tough to make a case on someone who hasn't posted since part way through day one.
4.) BloodyC0bbler: As far as I can tell, the only reason people think you are town is because the day one lynch was close. Is this the same day one lynch whose results were covered? Your voting patterns so far have been extremely opportunistic. Rather than commit to a certain scum suspect, you've waited for the bandwagon to become strong and then jump on quoting a random post that suddenly changes your mind. Maybe you could point me towards what makes you town?
5.) wherebugsgo: lol you seriously didn't roll mafia yet again did you? First BH claims scum and now this?
On February 28 2012 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote: @RoL: you're fucking lucky Toad scumslipped so hard, or I'd be pushing you like there's no tomorrow. All you do is lurk lurk lurk and then make excuses for your inactivity. That's exactly what you did when we were teammates in Couples Therapy and it's what you did (IIRC) in Purgatory as well.
"gosh darnnit, I'd really love to vote for you RoL, but all these townies are just so easy to push"
6.) risk.nuke: Moderately less scummy because his name isn't chaoser. His replacement has a lot of work to do to salvage the game.
7.) dirkzor:
On February 23 2012 07:05 Dirkzor wrote: Hahahahahahahhahahaha... Fuck that was a hilarious "flip" :D
Haha: "lol that's annoying"
Hahaha: "lol that's really annoying"
Hahahahahahahhahahaha: "I didn't have anything to do with that. I swear."
8.) DrH: He has been reasonable in the main thread and questionable in the voting thread. I was really surprised to read that he actually voted for Blazinghand. Looking through his filter, I'm really having trouble find the reasoning for his switch. Could you please point me in the direction? What happened to RoL? You're dropping him for today as well? Why are you ignoring your reads and pushing whoever happens to be the flavor of the day? I'd put you higher if the slots weren't already taken.
9.) VisceraEyes: I'm not reading through his filter. You can't make me. Lets go with 9th.
10.) Toadesstern: Appears to be putting more effort in than any other player. I'll take him to lylo any day.
11.) Tyrran: I'm having trouble finding a scum player out of the newer players. I liked how his opinion on blazing changed from day one to day two. Needs to be more helpful if we wants town to win however.
12.) layabout: I read through his filter last and 12 was the only spot remaining. Congrats.
13.) Jitsu: Seems to be looking for things with a town mindframe. Not really pushing his reads very hard though.
14.) kitaman27: lol the scum team isn't even bothering to try to make this guy look bad. Did they fail a hit on him or something?
nope kita's just wrong.
anyway I'm not going to get lynched today, and if scum tries it's going to be hilarious.
I have secrets so go ahead VE, try to lynch me. Really, I feel sorry for you since you have 0 idea what's coming.
On February 28 2012 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote: Hey VE,
according to your logic based on me talking to syllo, this post makes you scum:
On February 25 2012 10:58 VisceraEyes wrote: BC - is this DocH's normal play? It looks to me like he's pouring on the "Hey guys, watch me pressure these noobs!" a little thick...
asking BC for his reads
subtly hinting Dr. H is scum.
today, talks to Dr. H as if he's knowingly talking to a townie, trying to convince him I'm scum.
sup scum logic
What I did: subtly poke an inactive-ish player (BloodyC0bbler) a specific question with clear motivation (is this scummy? are you going to contribute?) regarding a controversial player (DocH) who's absolutely NOT a lynch candidate.
What you did: ask an active player (syllogism) a vague question (what are your thoughts) with unclear motivations (you've already said redFF was bad, you hadn't noted any change of opinion as of this post) of a player who's given his opinion on the player you're asking about (RedFF) who was already a lynch candidate.
They're not the same things. Try again scum.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THINGS! REFUTE THIS OR SHUT THE HELL UP WBG!
u mad bro?
again, you make the assumption that my question to syllo was purely to find out what syllo thought of redFF, and then use that opinion to find out what to do.
SO IF THAT'S TRUE, WHY DID I NOT AGREE WITH SYLLO? Jesus Christ.
I asked syllo what he thought about redFF because I wanted to see how syllo would answer (if at all.) In fact, I already had made up my mind. I used the opportunity to get an early read on syllo. If syllo chose not to answer, he was automatically scum. If he answered and disagreed with my already formed opinion, but for good reasons (which he subsequently did) he was likely to be town. If he answered and agreed, again for good reasons, probably town.
If he did anything and used shitty logic, he was less likely to be town.
So what was the purpose of me asking syllo what he thought? It was to determine syllo's alignment and at the same time, if I thought he was town, what he thought of redFF. Clearly we disagreed about him. That doesn't mean anything though, just means we had different opinions.
So again, what's scummy about this? absolutely nothing. Asking someone a question isn't scummy at all.
Yet, since VE chose to call me scum for this, I chose to take his own logic and point out how it applies to him 6 times over.
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
basically same thing I said;
I asked syllo his opinion on redFF prior to voting him, saying 'I think I was wrong" and you do the exact same thing with BC.(well opposite, you go from scum to town)
But I'm scummy for talking to syllo and you're not for talking to BC? Nice double standard, eh?
or this:
On February 21 2012 17:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Syllo what do you think about the back and forth between chaoser and WBG?
It seems genuine, so I doubt it's scum v scum - I can't decide if I think one of them is scum or if they're both town
can't decide, wants syllo's opinion.
Hey, now you can't say you were poking an inactive player! It's the same player I asked a question to!
On February 28 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't justify leaving my vote on Toad when prplhz and VE essentially just outted themselves.
##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Visceraeyes
why not prplhz instead? Why not RoL instead? We basicly tried to lynch RoL from d2 (or even d1?), he said nothing, basicly claimed mafia recently and we're still not able to lynch him.
why not prpl-I only have one vote
why not RoL-I only have one vote, and VE is more likely to be scum because the case extends beyond simple meta. In fact as of now we may actually be wrong about RoL and he might just be bored inactive town. Why kill someone who's done almost nothing alignment indicative as opposed to someone who is contradicting himself in logic and flailing around in thread?
If VE flips scum we should certainly look at both prpl and RoL.
If I'm wrong about you (which certainly seems possible now that prpl's shown his ugly face) then there's also some 4th scum out there. I've been asking myself, why did risk.nuke get replaced, in a game with no replacements? We haven't been able to lynch him either, and that's made me wonder for a while.
How does prpl showing up have anything to do with my alignment?
uhuh, wait don't answer that one! I found the answer myself:
On February 28 2012 07:33 kitaman27 wrote: Here are my scum power rankings! (anything past 5 may be completely arbitrary) + Show Spoiler [unimportant right now] +
1.) prplhz:
On February 23 2012 03:38 prplhz wrote: What the fuck are you talking about. I complained about the redFF lynch and pushed the BloodyC0bbler lynch.
On February 24 2012 13:02 prplhz wrote: I pushed BloodyC0bbler around the time I said that so it's not true when you say that I didn't provide an alternative.
On day one, prpl hard defends redff from the lynch, without providing an alternate candidate. He claims to have pushed the BC lynch. Lets take a closer look:
On February 23 2012 03:17 prplhz wrote: I think BloodyC0bbler is more scummy, but I think there might be better targets today that I'm more comfortable with. This is like Responsibility Mafia! where BloodyC0bbler was just gone, but he has been scummy so far.
On February 23 2012 03:49 prplhz wrote: Since we have dropped the BloodyC0bbler lynch I think that Blazinghand is a good lynch for town, especially if I'm the alternative.
On February 23 2012 03:54 prplhz wrote: If BloodyC0bbler is a possiblity then I'm more up for that than anything else. I'm a little unsure of him but he's a ton better than lynching me.
On February 23 2012 03:56 prplhz wrote: Like, I think BloodyC0bbler is scummy but I'm always kinda unsure about my reads (because, allegedly, I'm bad).
On February 23 2012 05:24 prplhz wrote: I really doubt that BloodyC0bbler is going to attract enough votes don't you think there are other alternatives that are more likely to flip scum than redFF and more likely to pick up enough votes than BloodyC0bbler?
Is this honestly what prpl considers pushing? A bunch of wishy-washy statements without providing any actual reasoning? He constantly brings up how bad he is as if he is trying to downplay his abilities.
Now lets move on to day two:
He starts off by voting RoL. Towards the end of the day he changes to blazing. His reasoning:
On February 25 2012 18:20 prplhz wrote: Going to vote Blazinghand. I don't see any reason to believe his claim.
##Vote: Blazinghand
The entire game, the strongest reason prpl has believed someone to be scum is because of a Floridian claim. Not once does he even reference his actual posts or behavior. Looking back to day one, prpl was willing to defend red because the claim made sense to him. The next day, a similar claim is provided and he has no reason to believe it.
The entire game prpl has responded poorly to pressure and would be a fine lynch candidate.
2.) RebirthOfLeGenD: You can't get frustrated at peoples concerns if they are legitimate points. You've spent more time defending yourself than contributing. You say you're busy. I can understand that, but the game started a week ago and we're still waiting. The only legitimate case you've given us was on DrH. Is there a reason you chose to ignore my concerns with the case?
3.) chaoser: Tough to make a case on someone who hasn't posted since part way through day one.
4.) BloodyC0bbler: As far as I can tell, the only reason people think you are town is because the day one lynch was close. Is this the same day one lynch whose results were covered? Your voting patterns so far have been extremely opportunistic. Rather than commit to a certain scum suspect, you've waited for the bandwagon to become strong and then jump on quoting a random post that suddenly changes your mind. Maybe you could point me towards what makes you town?
5.) wherebugsgo: lol you seriously didn't roll mafia yet again did you? First BH claims scum and now this?
On February 28 2012 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote: @RoL: you're fucking lucky Toad scumslipped so hard, or I'd be pushing you like there's no tomorrow. All you do is lurk lurk lurk and then make excuses for your inactivity. That's exactly what you did when we were teammates in Couples Therapy and it's what you did (IIRC) in Purgatory as well.
"gosh darnnit, I'd really love to vote for you RoL, but all these townies are just so easy to push"
6.) risk.nuke: Moderately less scummy because his name isn't chaoser. His replacement has a lot of work to do to salvage the game.
7.) dirkzor:
On February 23 2012 07:05 Dirkzor wrote: Hahahahahahahhahahaha... Fuck that was a hilarious "flip" :D
Haha: "lol that's annoying"
Hahaha: "lol that's really annoying"
Hahahahahahahhahahaha: "I didn't have anything to do with that. I swear."
8.) DrH: He has been reasonable in the main thread and questionable in the voting thread. I was really surprised to read that he actually voted for Blazinghand. Looking through his filter, I'm really having trouble find the reasoning for his switch. Could you please point me in the direction? What happened to RoL? You're dropping him for today as well? Why are you ignoring your reads and pushing whoever happens to be the flavor of the day? I'd put you higher if the slots weren't already taken.
9.) VisceraEyes: I'm not reading through his filter. You can't make me. Lets go with 9th.
10.) Toadesstern: Appears to be putting more effort in than any other player. I'll take him to lylo any day.
11.) Tyrran: I'm having trouble finding a scum player out of the newer players. I liked how his opinion on blazing changed from day one to day two. Needs to be more helpful if we wants town to win however.
12.) layabout: I read through his filter last and 12 was the only spot remaining. Congrats.
13.) Jitsu: Seems to be looking for things with a town mindframe. Not really pushing his reads very hard though.
14.) kitaman27: lol the scum team isn't even bothering to try to make this guy look bad. Did they fail a hit on him or something?
nope kita's just wrong.
anyway I'm not going to get lynched today, and if scum tries it's going to be hilarious.
I have secrets so go ahead VE, try to lynch me. Really, I feel sorry for you since you have 0 idea what's coming.
Come on WBG - COME ON. You really think I have ZERO idea what's coming? You're ass is going to fake-claim something retarded, claiming scum in the process and you're going to get lynched.
On February 28 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't justify leaving my vote on Toad when prplhz and VE essentially just outted themselves.
##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Visceraeyes
why not prplhz instead? Why not RoL instead? We basicly tried to lynch RoL from d2 (or even d1?), he said nothing, basicly claimed mafia recently and we're still not able to lynch him.
why not prpl-I only have one vote
why not RoL-I only have one vote, and VE is more likely to be scum because the case extends beyond simple meta. In fact as of now we may actually be wrong about RoL and he might just be bored inactive town. Why kill someone who's done almost nothing alignment indicative as opposed to someone who is contradicting himself in logic and flailing around in thread?
If VE flips scum we should certainly look at both prpl and RoL.
If I'm wrong about you (which certainly seems possible now that prpl's shown his ugly face) then there's also some 4th scum out there. I've been asking myself, why did risk.nuke get replaced, in a game with no replacements? We haven't been able to lynch him either, and that's made me wonder for a while.
How does prpl showing up have anything to do with my alignment?
bc it is extremely unlikely that all 3 of you are scum, IMO.
I guess it's possible that the entire scum team is something like you, prpl, RoL, and VE. In fact I wouldn't be shocked, seeing as I feel like there's no one helping me.
However, I think risk.nuke is more likely to be scum based on the replacement and if prpl is scum you can't be.
I actually stopped pushing risk because of the replacement.
I've been watching risk because I've been told to watch risk.
Disagreements, you know. They tend to work in funny ways.
On February 28 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Toades - I actually like a BC lynch more than a RoL lynch if we're talking about scummy lurkers. If we're talking about dangerous scum, my preference is a WBG lynch. BC will become dangerous when he starts "contributing" to town if he's scum - while he's lurking, I feel like WBG is doing far more harm to town.
You're calling people scum based on how potentially dangerous they are if they were scum.
This is fucking fearmongering and it isn't even scumhunting. It operates on the basis of the assumption that myself and BC are mafia.
Basically you're saying "these two players are dangerous as scum, so that means they're scum"
On February 28 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Toades - I actually like a BC lynch more than a RoL lynch if we're talking about scummy lurkers. If we're talking about dangerous scum, my preference is a WBG lynch. BC will become dangerous when he starts "contributing" to town if he's scum - while he's lurking, I feel like WBG is doing far more harm to town.
You're calling people scum based on how potentially dangerous they are if they were scum.
This is fucking fearmongering and it isn't even scumhunting. It operates on the basis of the assumption that myself and BC are mafia.
Basically you're saying "these two players are dangerous as scum, so that means they're scum"
good fucking god
Nah, I have reasoning for thinking BC is scum. I'm just getting you lynched today.
One at a time bro.
no you don't, you haven't had a proper reason for calling anyone scum all game.
On February 28 2012 09:56 Toadesstern wrote: let's just assume you're town for a second wbg:
Doesn't townie wbg think I am not capable to find mafia? Doesn't townie wbg think VE isn't capable to find mafia?
Yet you say VE is 100% mafia because of his bullshit case?
his case isn't dumb like his normal wrong cases are.
His case is MALICIOUSLY wrong. He's stretching to call me scum and he's not backing off when met with reason. He's fallen victim to his own misuse of logic, yet he continues pushing my lynch; which tells me that it isn't bad townie VE, it's scum VE.
On February 28 2012 09:56 Toadesstern wrote: let's just assume you're town for a second wbg:
Doesn't townie wbg think I am not capable to find mafia? Doesn't townie wbg think VE isn't capable to find mafia?
Yet you say VE is 100% mafia because of his bullshit case?
his case isn't dumb like his normal wrong cases are.
His case is MALICIOUSLY wrong. He's stretching to call me scum and he's not backing off when met with reason. He's fallen victim to his own misuse of logic, yet he continues pushing my lynch; which tells me that it isn't bad townie VE, it's scum VE.
Didn't you say the exact same thing about me? I recall you saying I am stretching extremly and being wrong and that as well.
which is why I voted you.
It's also why I'm confused right now, because between you and prpl I don't believe you can both be scum.
On February 28 2012 10:03 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo
I'm not really sheeping. This thread is in a bad state and I'm blaming you. You're pushing left and right for bad reasons and your contributions all seem to be pretty irrelevant. I think there's something off about your behavior.
I'm not really worried about how you're claiming alchemist, probably just means that BloodyC0bbler is going to vote you. Why did you send a potion to kitaman27? I doubt he drank any unless he's your scum buddy.
You're blaming me for no one posting? Good one.
It's totally my fault that you've done jack shit all game. It's totally my fault that VE disappeared for two days and then decided to shit up the thread by forging a case on me.
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
Don't got none. *shrug*
yeah tbh I'm pretty mad town isn't winning overwhelmingly right now. I've been lazy, but judging from how inactive this entire game is, mafia probably has just been lurking all game. You might as well have no scumbuddies, it wouldn't seem any different.
On February 28 2012 10:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Easier conclusion to swallow: VE is town.
Your mileage may vary.
so town VE goes and disappears for 2 days?
What happened to the town VE from Responsibility that spammed while no one was talking to get the thread active, and complained that he was the only one talking?
Why would town VE sit around and let the thread die?
I'll tell you the answer: town VE wouldn't do those things. So, you're not town VE!
On February 28 2012 10:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Easier conclusion to swallow: VE is town.
Your mileage may vary.
so town VE goes and disappears for 2 days?
What happened to the town VE from Responsibility that spammed while no one was talking to get the thread active, and complained that he was the only one talking?
Why would town VE sit around and let the thread die?
I'll tell you the answer: town VE wouldn't do those things. So, you're not town VE!
Woot Occam's Razor.
Oh man, look at how amazingly large my filter is! It's because I've been doing that self-same thing ALL GAME THIS GAME!
Except, aw shucks - for the first time in like 5 years I actually decided to get schwasted for a whole weekend this weekend. Guess that means I'm scum right? Right Bugs? RIGHT?!
size of filter does not equal quality of contribution.
Nor does it indicate anything about consistency of activity, either. It's a fact that you've been completely inactive from halfway through day 2. It's something I noted myself; I put it down as scummy that you randomly disappeared and that you never followed through on your promise to comment before lynch.
You've also still chosen to not give your thoughts on the other people you listed as scum (namely, BC.) Instead, you saw me posting in the thread and saw it as an opportunity to tunnel me, I suppose. Anyway I have no idea what you're doing, since I'm not you, but at no point in the last 48 hours have you done anything that has suggested to me that you are town.
Nice charade day 1 though, I fully believed you were town for a very long time.
On February 28 2012 10:25 Toadesstern wrote: he's got more pages in his filter than I have in mine. I'd consider that spamming.
except you've been consistent in your activity and he has not.
It's a known fact that scum generally are very active day 1 and then they drop off later. Town tend to be more consistent.
On February 28 2012 10:25 Toadesstern wrote: he's got more pages in his filter than I have in mine. I'd consider that spamming.
No, I'm personally responsible for the thread dying Toad - not spamming. Get it right.
hello further misrepresentation
nice to see you're still putting effort into twisting my words.
On February 28 2012 10:28 prplhz wrote: Partially, you're responsible for the inactivity because people post less when there's an asshole around.
So me being a dick is me being scum?
Guess Palmar is scum every game, then?
On February 28 2012 10:28 prplhz wrote: The bad state I was talking about was how there is virtually no scum hunting going on and none of your activity seems to be focusing on this.
So what scumhunting have you done to remedy this problem, prplhz?
And what the fuck do you think I've been doing if not scumhunting? I pushed BH yesterday because I legitimately believed he was scum. I pushed redFF for the same reason (after initially finding him unreadable.). I'm pushing VE for the same reason now.
If I'm not scumhunting, then no one is. And you can't blame me for that.
On February 28 2012 10:28 prplhz wrote: You have pushed left and right but never used it for anything, now you want to lynch VisceraEyes on a bad case.
Explain how my case is bad.
You assert things but you don't even justify your assertions. I have justified 100% of what I have said but you literally said you don't even have to make a case on me bc of "burden of proof." (which is bs, the burden of proof is on the accuser)
On February 28 2012 10:28 prplhz wrote: You're usually unflappable but this seems kind of like an OMGUS on a player I don't think looks scum at all.
What the fuck?
Do you not remember XLV? I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of OMGUS, it is in no way IMO a scum tell. It's a great way to catch scum when I know they're using bad reasons to call me scum.
That's 100% the reason I caught Dr. H scum in LoTR. I OMGUSed him when he called me scum for asking for the ring, and I was correct.
On February 28 2012 10:28 prplhz wrote: I think all of those problems you have with VisceraEyes are off. Do you actually think he's scum?
Ofc I think he's scum, what a loaded question.
Do you actually think I'm scum? You didn't even justify your vote. That's why I highly doubt you're town. Every game you talk about changing your play to be more pro-town, and when you actually roll town you look pretty pro-town. But this game is far from it.
On February 28 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote: Like, I miss the wherebugsgo who poked me in like two posts in PYP:Interesting and then concluded that I was scum while I just sat there with an open mouth thinking "How the fuck did he do that?". Instead you're hiding behind a bad case on a player. The premise for that your is "Palmar said he was getting better.". That's just fucking weird. Right now, there are 4 people in this thread, you and Toadesstern, VisceraEyes, and myself, and you're calling us all scum. What the hell?
that's not at all the reason I'm accusing VE of being scum and you'd know it if you were actually reading.
w/e though, you'e probably scum so i'm just wasting time responding to you atm.
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
what the fuck is the point of asking any of that
you can go mindfuck yourself some more since you clearly have no idea what you're talking about
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
no, it doesn't prove anything.
It's complete WIFOM because I have no fucking clue what the mafia would do in this situation.
The fact that you're insinuating that I could actually find out the answers to those questions makes you look redder.
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
no, it doesn't prove anything.
It's complete WIFOM because I have no fucking clue what the mafia would do in this situation.
The fact that you're insinuating that I could actually find out the answers to those questions makes you look redder.
It's funny because if I were in VE's spot as mafia and toades was town I wouldn't vote for Toades at all
yes but that's what you would do.
A mafia in that situation can do literally anything he wanted as long as he had the proper justification for it
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
no, it doesn't prove anything.
It's complete WIFOM because I have no fucking clue what the mafia would do in this situation.
The fact that you're insinuating that I could actually find out the answers to those questions makes you look redder.
It's funny because if I were in VE's spot as mafia and toades was town I wouldn't vote for Toades at all
why not? Why should mafia start a counterwagon and defend me?
why shouldn't they?
now you've delved into the realm of WIFOM; congratulations, you are now helping waste all of our time more efficiently.
On February 28 2012 10:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That's why toades point is stupid because he has no way of knowing what any 1 particular scum would act. Scum intentionally obfuscate or make inefficient moves to cause confusion. They will defend townies and attack each other, etc.
agreed.
However, I don't care atm because it's a waste of time.
Do you think RoL is mafia? prpl? VE?
I assume since you still have your vote on Toad you still think he is scum.
On February 28 2012 10:44 prplhz wrote: Can't you do something instead?
You make me smile prpl.
You don't make me smile as much as you usually do. You want to lynch me, there are people around who want to lynch me, why are you not pushing me? This is relevant to my interests.
On February 28 2012 10:14 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
no, it doesn't prove anything.
It's complete WIFOM because I have no fucking clue what the mafia would do in this situation.
The fact that you're insinuating that I could actually find out the answers to those questions makes you look redder.
It's funny because if I were in VE's spot as mafia and toades was town I wouldn't vote for Toades at all
why not? Why should mafia start a counterwagon and defend me?
why shouldn't they?
now you've delved into the realm of WIFOM; congratulations, you are now helping waste all of our time more efficiently.
Ok, so you think VE is mafia and his masterplan is derping big time instead of going with the ez lynch and because we all see how much towncred got (according to you) from that ingenius move he just it's more likely that he's mafia?
Oh crap, you're going after him now, guess his masterplan wasn't that ingenius after all, OR HE'S A FUCKING TOWNIE
On February 28 2012 11:02 prplhz wrote: Okay, I mean, it's just so stupid of wherebugsgo to be all "lets split our votes between these three, then we will hit scum today". It's stupid for the obvious reason that Toadesstern pointed out and it's stupid because one of them isn't even red on his next list. Right now wherebugsgo seems to legitimately be pushing the idea that out of the 5 people who are active in this thread right now, the 3 that are pushing him are all scum. This is just so bad.
Does stupid and bad mean that wherebugsgo is likely to be scum? Yea. He's a smart guy, I have no fucking clue why he's doing this.
who's not red on my next list?
I consider RoL to be reddish but I didn't have him on that list because he didn't vote BH. I have something like 7 red reads right now. Yeah, they can't all be scum obviously. But I really wish I had a machine gun so I could just kill them all indiscriminately.
On February 28 2012 10:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: VisceraEyes has looked scummy for a long time. His case on WBG is grasping at straws, especially the fact that you're pushing a player Day 3 based on loud posts Day 1? You didn't catch onto his question to syllo then?
Here's how scum play often works:
Scum 1: I need to push a bandwagon today so X doesn't get lynched Scum 2: WBG has been pretty spammy, changed his mind a lot, etc. he might be an easy candidate Scum 1: Hm, ok I'll make a post about it
I'm still reading all the posts here but it seems like VE is criticizing WBG for buddying?
On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Also this:
On February 22 2012 16:42 VisceraEyes wrote: That was dangerously close to role-fishing syllo - the existance of one town-tracker doesn't preclude a second town-tracker. Am I missing something?
"Role fishing" imo is one of those things that scum accuses other townies of doing it's supposed to be "Scummy" but in 5 or 6 games as scum I have never really done it or known any teammates to do it either, except in PM games where it's pretty easy and often town roles have a lot of incentive to rolefish
On February 22 2012 15:55 VisceraEyes wrote: And BC is your strongest read right now Syllo? Like, without question?
Did you ever get around to looking at the whole WBG/chaoser thing sir? I feel like that exchange means something. chaoser's defense was solid, but I didn't mind WBG's attack either.
However, chaoser still seems to be interested in finding scum, while WBG has only recently been calling red scum...he's been tunneled in on chaoser ever since that argument.
I'm starting to get a red read on WBG.
Is this really that different than what WBG did?
Inversely, for my ease of writing.
Yes, that's vastly different than what WBG asked of Syllo - for the same reasons the question I posted earlier. I asked Syllo a specific question, relevant to something I was looking at.
Holy fuck.
Okay VE. Here's where I prove you're full of shit.
Here's what I asked syllo:
On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote: syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF?
On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58
I endorse this statement fully and from the bottom of my heart I thank you for letting me know I am not insane.
Why are we debating Policy lynches this early into the day? Seriously? This isn't a game with a player like 2010 bill murray who spams while being a dick, this isn't a game with a mod hating spammer named showtime. Instead we have for the most part a fairly solid crew devoid of spammy trolls. If you want to lynch someone for being bad, wait till they start being bad / scumlike, dont lynch them for shits and giggles.
Policy lynching people on retarded reasoning is worse than RNG votes for early discussion. Cut the nonsense out. Anyone who keeps talking about it from this post on be warned.
as a side note, VE since you are making moderate sense for the first time ever I have to give you props for impressing me two games in a row.
/salute
What are your thoughts on redFF BC? I'm almost convinced that he's just bad and not scum, but I'd like your thoughts before I act on it.
Okay.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THE DIFFERENCE?
The straw grasping is just blowing my mind right now, I can't believe anyone would actually seriously consider this an adequate reason to call someone scum.
His answer, while unhelpful to me in the long run, helped me get a read on Syllo. Not only was the question specific, I immediately gave him MY thoughts on the question I asked, encouraging him to respond in an informative and relevant way by providing context to the question. If you'll look at WBG's post, it was literally "what are your thoughts on redFF? I think I may have been mistaken all game" First of all, the question was vague as fuck. His thoughts? Does he mean regarding his skill-level or alignment? Does he mean regarding redFF's demeanor or his play in Sleeper Cell 2? Obviously we can assume he was just asking him about his alignment, but we don't REALLY know do we? Not only that, but he goes on to say "I think I may have been mistaken all game"...which doesn't provide any context at all! Why? Because all game long, all WBG has had to say is "I have no idea what redFF's alignment is! I only know that he's sooooooo bad!"
rofl.
So you're calling me out for being "vague" when you were equally vague with more than half of your questions to people this game.
There is no way that anything I did was alignment-indicative yet you are grasping at straws to try and make it so, when you were guilty of the same thing you were accusing me of.
The huge double standard is pretty much why I'm leaving my vote on VE right now.
Also, I said he was unreadable for the first half of day 1. That's not all game long. What the fuck else would I ask if not syllo's thoughts on redFF's alignment?
Like seriously, the fuck is this?
First of all, the question was vague as fuck. His thoughts? Does he mean regarding his skill-level or alignment? Does he mean regarding redFF's demeanor or his play in Sleeper Cell 2? Obviously we can assume he was just asking him about his alignment, but we don't REALLY know do we?
LOL WHAT? In what world do you come to this conclusion?
On February 28 2012 10:41 Toadesstern wrote: [quote]
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
no, it doesn't prove anything.
It's complete WIFOM because I have no fucking clue what the mafia would do in this situation.
The fact that you're insinuating that I could actually find out the answers to those questions makes you look redder.
It's funny because if I were in VE's spot as mafia and toades was town I wouldn't vote for Toades at all
why not? Why should mafia start a counterwagon and defend me?
why shouldn't they?
now you've delved into the realm of WIFOM; congratulations, you are now helping waste all of our time more efficiently.
Ok, so you think VE is mafia and his masterplan is derping big time instead of going with the ez lynch and because we all see how much towncred got (according to you) from that ingenius move he just it's more likely that he's mafia?
Oh crap, you're going after him now, guess his masterplan wasn't that ingenius after all, OR HE'S A FUCKING TOWNIE
I see you want to continue wasting time.
So you're scum then? How goes the QT?
It's not wasting time. Remember AC when noone was asking who got RB'ed the next night? That's what syllo said to me and it was, according to him, one of the most important question to ask. You want to tell me that kind of thing is wifom as well because "hell, for all I know mafia could just chose to note use their RB TO CONFUSE TOWN". No mafia would not do that. What I am talking about is not wifom, just like mafia doing /dance is not a possible explanation to why we had no kills n1. Yet you're not telling me "well that's wifom! Mafia could have willingly chose to not shoot at all to confuse town!" because you know noone would do such a thing.
You didn't realize that I had to be mafia according to what you said because I know I can't be mafia and didn't think about it. It's that easy.
the fuck?
I'm not understanding anything you're saying atm. Ofc it's wasting time. Claiming RB and asking circular questions are two different things. In fact, different people have different opinions about RB claims too, and I have no clue what the point of that discussion is. (ex. IMO if there's no KP missing then usually roleblock claims are legit but if there's KP missing then you shouldn't trust a RB claim)
Right now your questions are circular and both myself and Dr. H have independently shown you why that is true. Unless you think both myself and Dr. H are scum then I have no fucking clue why you're still trying to extend this pointless argument.
Here's a hint: when two different and generally reliable players independently come up to the same conclusion for different reasons, it probably means they're right.
On February 28 2012 11:17 prplhz wrote: Yes, VisceraEyes is fucking out of his mind. That doesn't really mean anything though. The premise of your case is "Palmar said he was getting better" and that's not good enough. Find somebody else wherebugsgo or you should really be lynched. You usually push people because they're scum, not because they said some stupid shit.
NO IT ISN'T LOL
You keep fucking putting words in my mouth. The premise isn't "Palmar considers him good" and you KNOW that, yet you take that ONE statement and then misrepresent my ENTIRE case around it.
This is why I'm so pissed off. It doesn't matter what your alignment is at this point, I'm just frustrated.
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
VE voting for you or not is not indicative of your or his alignment no matter what you flip
It, in fact, proves absolutely nothing
holy shit it's irc mafia all over again: Toad gets shot by mafia 6 times in a row. -> VE: "TOAD COULD BE MAFIA SHOOTING HIMSELF TO LOOK TOWNIE, WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM"
On February 28 2012 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Like seriously Bugs - just calm down and ignore me - I'm not responding to your bullshit anymore as I'm 100% convinced of your guilt.
ignore you why, you can't take the heat?
I see 0 reason for any townie to ever say this; to tell THEIR TARGET to ignore them. Your case is so bad that any townie who sees reason would've dropped it more than 2 pages ago, yet you're still pushing it because you're scum and you passed the point of no return.
On February 28 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't say I'd lynch you for claiming - I'll lynch you regardless. I said TOWN would lynch you for claiming - which as you've pointed out, has a pretty decent track-record.
you need more than one scumbuddy to lynch me.
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
VE voting for you or not is not indicative of your or his alignment no matter what you flip
It, in fact, proves absolutely nothing
holy shit it's irc mafia all over again: Toad gets shot by mafia 6 times in a row. -> VE: "TOAD COULD BE MAFIA SHOOTING HIMSELF TO LOOK TOWNIE, WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM"
you make 0 sense
wifom is a nice excuse and it might be a problem when the cases are both viable options but in the case we got here saying VE has to be mafia because he waltzed in the thread, derping like a pro and made himself the target of your wrath is definitely not impossible but how likely is that? If you want to play that way everything is wifom. Me saying I am Toad could be a lie because for all I know I could be fucking Santa Claus (let's use Jackals claim from last game ❤ ) and therefore every single meta argument you make about me is invalid because I'm not toad but isntead Santa Claus. You're telling me that's a possibility as well?
there's two possibilities here
1. you don't understand what WIFOM is
2. you don't have an interest in having a productive discussion.
You can argue this all you want; your opinion is not tenable because you make assumptions without any evidence suggesting that your assumptions are better than any others. For that reason, you're inclined to believe your own opinion over those of others. Since both myself and Dr. H have already conclusively shown you how you are wrong, you either are refusing to accept that fact or do not understand what we are saying.
On February 28 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: [quote]
why should mafia VE come in here and push you instead of just joining the Toad-wagon?
That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again:
The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies.
However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not.
So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to.
He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever
I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM
wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA.
How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck?
VE voting for you or not is not indicative of your or his alignment no matter what you flip
It, in fact, proves absolutely nothing
holy shit it's irc mafia all over again: Toad gets shot by mafia 6 times in a row. -> VE: "TOAD COULD BE MAFIA SHOOTING HIMSELF TO LOOK TOWNIE, WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM"
you make 0 sense
wifom is a nice excuse and it might be a problem when the cases are both viable options but in the case we got here saying VE has to be mafia because he waltzed in the thread, derping like a pro and made himself the target of your wrath is definitely not impossible but how likely is that? If you want to play that way everything is wifom. Me saying I am Toad could be a lie because for all I know I could be fucking Santa Claus (let's use Jackals claim from last game ❤ ) and therefore every single meta argument you make about me is invalid because I'm not toad but isntead Santa Claus. You're telling me that's a possibility as well?
there's two possibilities here
1. you don't understand what WIFOM is
2. you don't have an interest in having a productive discussion.
You can argue this all you want; your opinion is not tenable because you make assumptions without any evidence suggesting that your assumptions are better than any others. For that reason, you're inclined to believe your own opinion over those of others. Since both myself and Dr. H have already conclusively shown you how you are wrong, you either are refusing to accept that fact or do not understand what we are saying.
It's no wonder we both want to kill you.
I know what wifom is, nevertheless assuming I am mafia would be the BY FAR most reasonable explanation. You did not see that and didn't even think about it. After all it's still to some degree a game of robabilities. Would you say "A looks good, he was the first to point out X, Y and Z could be mafia and A heavily pushed them" is wifom as well because it could be possible that A bussed 3 of his mafia members to get towncred and win the game himself? Of course you would not because it's a possibility there's no reason to assume that kind of bullshit unless you got a PRETTY good reason to assume that kind of stuff.
Assuming VE is a mafia trying to build a counterwagon while getting himself killed (if it were up to you) is just so incredible unlikely.
I don't really want to lynch into VisceraEyes/wherebugsgo because they're both reasonably active but if I have to then I'll lynch wherebugsgo. I think there's something off about him. Just his "All the three people accusing me of being scum in this thread are scum.". That's fucking insane.
I'd much rather lynch into those people who are abusing the activity requirements. I mean, write a fucking post. I don't agree at all with DoctorHelvetica's "lets leave low-activity people for later". Everybody here has a page or two of posts and that should be enough that we can get a read on them. I think we could lynch chaoser and there seems to be consensus about that among all the people present right now. Here's his filter. He hasn't said a thing for two days now and he doesn't seem to care much about the game with the "When's deadline?" and seems to be faking activity with "I'll do votecounts myself.". He was only reasonably active during day1 but since then he doesn't seem to care about the game (that's gone way off track).
so there's 3 people trying to lynch me?
AFAIK there's only 2, unless you know something that I don't.
I don't really want to lynch into VisceraEyes/wherebugsgo because they're both reasonably active but if I have to then I'll lynch wherebugsgo. I think there's something off about him. Just his "All the three people accusing me of being scum in this thread are scum.". That's fucking insane.
I'd much rather lynch into those people who are abusing the activity requirements. I mean, write a fucking post. I don't agree at all with DoctorHelvetica's "lets leave low-activity people for later". Everybody here has a page or two of posts and that should be enough that we can get a read on them. I think we could lynch chaoser and there seems to be consensus about that among all the people present right now. Here's his filter. He hasn't said a thing for two days now and he doesn't seem to care much about the game with the "When's deadline?" and seems to be faking activity with "I'll do votecounts myself.". He was only reasonably active during day1 but since then he doesn't seem to care about the game (that's gone way off track).
so there's 3 people trying to lynch me?
AFAIK there's only 2, unless you know something that I don't.
Which of Toadesstern, VisceraEyes and prplhz isn't people?
apparently I can't copy+paste logs from the QT, so basically I'll just paraphrase:
started out by asking each other if it was only us in the QT, and we both said no; so we speculated for a bit on a town role that could mason other people. Kept watching the viewer counter and it stayed constant at 4, which meant it really was only us in there. I breadcrumbed something to see if the creator would feel safe enough to communicate to us via thread but no one ever did. I confirmed earlier today-so it likely means the originator of the QT can't read the QT.
we then moved on to discussing reads. I pointed out Blazinghand and syllo pointed out RoL, and we both agreed that Dr. H looked town. We both agreed to push the separate wagons because we wanted at least one to flip. So basically syllo pushed RoL and I pushed Blazinghand; that's also why I didn't really care about the RoL wagon since BH got lynched. (likewise syllo didn't stop the BH wagon)
We talk about VE and how he called me wishy washy but was wishy washy on redFF himself (it's mostly me commenting on VE; syllo never actually said anything about him for some reason) and syllo mentions that he thinks redFF is town based on the lack of tracker cc. In addition he says he thinks the vote pattern is indicative of both d1 wagons being town.
little bit of discussion as to why risk.nuke was so scummy, syllo says he has no idea why he would be playing the way he's playing as town.
I ask what syllo thinks of kita; he says "town" and I ask why, he says, since he's not very motivated, that he'll reveal that it is "role related reasons." I leave the subject there and later in the day when he asks me to roleclaim I do so and he claims to me as alchemist. He says the reason he believes kita is town is because he gave kita a healing potion n1. He says he thinks Dr. H and I are the two most likely shot targets and gives me a healing potion at the end of d2.
Talk about how Jackal and chaoser are relatively null; syllo says chaoser looked fine d1 but has looked progressively worse. Says Jackal is hard to read and doesn't care.
small discussion about why Toad said a certain thing (the so scummy part) and how he's not making sense; syllo speculates about what it means but admits he's too lazy to read Toad's filter to find the previous post he's referring to
comment on how something BC said is exactly my thought on BH
syllo suspicious of BH posting a response to his question about RoL only 4 minutes after he posted, says he thinks it was written up already
ask about Toad + risk, syllo says assuming BH flips scum Toad looks okay, doesn't know why risk is playing so bad, again admits he's too lazy to read filters (at this point it's clear to me syllo doesn't really have motivation to play lol)
before nightpost syllo explains the details of his role and answers my question regarding why kita would say to kill Jackal if he died; syllo says kita prbably just thought jackal gave him the potion, says target has to willingly drink the potion or it is discarded (he actually said this wasn't optimal play, but that it's more fun to reveal details. He didn't say much though and I didn't really have the presence of mind to ask)
small discussion on how VE has disappeared (we're both busy and on and off at this point so we're not even talking much)
syllo angry about vote count modifier being hidden (BH's role)
On February 28 2012 16:44 prplhz wrote: @BloodyC0bbler It looks to me like you just come in here and then paraphrase the last pages of posts and complains. The "Burden of proof." thing I said was something wherebugsgo said earlier, I was just using it against him for the lulz. If you read the thread you will notice that I don't actually want to lynch wherebugsgo today, I don't think he's strong enough scum read and then he's active which I very much appreciate.
I'd lynch you though.
I think that if anybody thinks about it, it would be very weird if there were multiple scum among Toadesstern/VisceraEyes/prplhz. I doubt there's even one right now. VisceraEyes looks his usual town except for the inactivity but he was drunk and inactive elsewhere on these forums too so I don't doubt that claim. Toadesstern looks the scummiest but I just think that a scum QuickTopic would have stopped him when he was starting to argue with terms he didn't even understand. There was no reason for him to go on at that point.
@wherebugsgo So you're a mason. I have no idea why you are claiming but alright.
you didn't read apparently
I'm not actually a mason, I was just masoned with syllo.
On February 28 2012 19:14 Dirkzor wrote: While I was sleeping DrH have accomplished to add 2-3 more page to his filter without saying anything. He have called 6+ player scummy but made no cases or really pushed for their lynch. He called out toad for cluttering up the thread but continued to do so himself the same way he have done earlier.
@Kita it had nothing to do with the mason. I actually thought about what I was originally going to do and then decided not to do it because in the long term it'd probably be bad
prpl it's funny that you say Tyrran "knew" bH was town but you completely fuckin ignore the fact that Toad "knew" he was town.
That screams that you have an agenda that is not pro-town.
Dr. H, let's kill one of Toad or prpl. No one's voting Toad unfortunately as of yet, but people are voting prpl. Since RoL ragequit and is about to get modkilled I see no reason to lynch him.
On February 29 2012 04:44 Toadesstern wrote: anyway we need to get some people on one guy unlike wbg said. I don't want mafia to manipulate this thing I'm fine with lynching prpl / wbg / RoL right now.
I disagree with Kurumi when he said we should lynch lurkers to our vigs because that clearly hasn't worked the last 2 days...
Jackal is dead. Vigilante is doing his/her job. Unless You know more than us, of course.
the vig hit jackal? it hought so, can you confirm that?
I can't confirm it. Could You just think a second about it? Why Mafia would lynch Jackal, who played really decent this game? And, I honestly believe Mafia has 1KP. Now, let's just decide on a lynch.
On February 29 2012 05:17 Toadesstern wrote: There is no reason to assume Jackal was shot by a townie. Townies are not afraid to claim a shot 10 secs before the deadline if they're a 1-shot-vig. And everyone keeps saying Jackal would be a bad hit for mafia but I can hardly find better targets than syllo & Jackal. Maybe kita but other than that our vets did a great job doing nothing, making it hard to judge them.
No Vig claim = I believe mafia has 2 KP And why the heck should a town vig shoot Jackal? I shot 3 townies last game but shooting jackal this time? best case he was looking town, worst case he was looking like a null and we had people like prpl, RoL, risk.nuke running around and you guys think a townie would shoot Jackal ?!?!
Anyone who wants to speculate shit about the setup instead of finding scum:
You're wasting time.
Specifically, one of you (Toad) has done it so consistently as to pretty much derail the thread whenever possible. This makes it nearly impossible to actually focus on killing scum.
Great scum tactic. Kill prpl/Toad/VE today. From the looks of it, prpl has the best chance to be lynched.
Dr. H do you have any qualms about switching your vote? I agreed with Toad being scummy (hell, I voted him before you) but the problem is that, realistically, this town is too stupid to do what's optimal. At least, judging by the number of players who are playing like shit, they can't all be scum.
On February 29 2012 05:18 Tyrran wrote: Okay, so mafia likely has 2 KP, because i dont think any player here is stupid enough to vig shot syllo. Also, with RoL getting modkilled, i moved my vote to prplhz.
Stop with the RoL is getting modkilled. We don't know that. Stop saying that.
DrH: Why did you bring up your role now a few hours before lynch? It's completely irrelevant and you're not going to get lynched anyway.
Yeah we do, it's in the fucking vote thread that he's going to get modkilled.
On February 29 2012 05:46 Kurumi wrote: I am rapidly changing my view on wbg based on fact he's not trying to cause another communist revolt with huge posts and populist lines/.
I'm not communist, I'm republican.
jk I'm registered Democrat.
That's right, GWB is a Democrat. Now your minds have been blown. Again.
And you still have no intention of doing anything, it looks like?
Holy shit, why sign up for games if you're just going to go inactive, make a bunch of excuses, fake a ragequit, then come back again just to go "trolol just shoot me you guys all suck"
On February 29 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: And you still have no intention of doing anything, it looks like?
Holy shit, why sign up for games if you're just going to go inactive, make a bunch of excuses, fake a ragequit, then come back again just to go "trolol just shoot me you guys all suck"
You retards shrugged off every attempt at activity I ever made as OMGUS and worthless and were going to lynch me regardless of what I said. When I left the thread, you guys had every intention of killing me, and zero intention of ever listening to me. Why on Earth would I waste my valuable time continuing to fight an uphill battle for no reason when my shits dismissed without even being read?
Hint: No one would.
Who did you even push? Dr. H?
Why the fuck would anyone listen to someone who clearly has no interest in the outcome of the lynch? I don't recall anyone accusing you of OMGUS, now you're just making shit up.
Zero intention of listening to you? What the fuck was there to listen to in the first place?
On February 29 2012 06:22 kitaman27 wrote: dunno about bugs, but I just got out of class.
I'm interested to see if RoL is going to show up to save himself from modkill. If him and red are town, its a shame they've decided to quit after becoming the center of attention. I'm content with the prpl lynch, sorry if I'm wrong
sounds to me like "sry guys, you're going to to lynch a townie again but I feel really sorry about it *happy* :3 :D"
On February 29 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: And you still have no intention of doing anything, it looks like?
Holy shit, why sign up for games if you're just going to go inactive, make a bunch of excuses, fake a ragequit, then come back again just to go "trolol just shoot me you guys all suck"
You retards shrugged off every attempt at activity I ever made as OMGUS and worthless and were going to lynch me regardless of what I said. When I left the thread, you guys had every intention of killing me, and zero intention of ever listening to me. Why on Earth would I waste my valuable time continuing to fight an uphill battle for no reason when my shits dismissed without even being read?
Hint: No one would.
I asked you multiple times to respond to my questioning of your case. Instead of responding, you decided to play the "everyone is against me" card and left the thread. I do find it pretty hilarious how good you are at getting away with this though :p
On February 25 2012 10:14 wherebugsgo wrote: I feel you Toad; I said the exact same thing about VE earlier.
Generally though if someone is exhibiting both tells I just ignore them until I'm forced to deal with them. BH is nothing but scum and RoL is nothing but lurk so it's easy killings either way.
the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar.
If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to.
Sad story, isn't it?
However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL.
On February 29 2012 06:22 kitaman27 wrote: dunno about bugs, but I just got out of class.
I'm interested to see if RoL is going to show up to save himself from modkill. If him and red are town, its a shame they've decided to quit after becoming the center of attention. I'm content with the prpl lynch, sorry if I'm wrong
sounds to me like "sry guys, you're going to to lynch a townie again but I feel really sorry about it *happy* :3 :D"
On February 29 2012 07:34 kitaman27 wrote:
On February 29 2012 07:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On February 29 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: And you still have no intention of doing anything, it looks like?
Holy shit, why sign up for games if you're just going to go inactive, make a bunch of excuses, fake a ragequit, then come back again just to go "trolol just shoot me you guys all suck"
You retards shrugged off every attempt at activity I ever made as OMGUS and worthless and were going to lynch me regardless of what I said. When I left the thread, you guys had every intention of killing me, and zero intention of ever listening to me. Why on Earth would I waste my valuable time continuing to fight an uphill battle for no reason when my shits dismissed without even being read?
Hint: No one would.
I asked you multiple times to respond to my questioning of your case. Instead of responding, you decided to play the "everyone is against me" card and left the thread. I do find it pretty hilarious how good you are at getting away with this though :p
Same as above. Why so happy?
I don't want to believe kita might be mafia
says the guy who posted this shit:
On February 25 2012 11:56 Toadesstern wrote:
On February 25 2012 10:14 wherebugsgo wrote: I feel you Toad; I said the exact same thing about VE earlier.
Generally though if someone is exhibiting both tells I just ignore them until I'm forced to deal with them. BH is nothing but scum and RoL is nothing but lurk so it's easy killings either way.
the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar.
If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to.
Sad story, isn't it?
However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL.
DocH did the same today!
so you're telling me one of two things:
1. all 3 of you are scum
or
2. you're fixating retardedly on something that is barely alignment indicative.
Actually what am I saying, obviously you're just thick.
On February 29 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: And you still have no intention of doing anything, it looks like?
Holy shit, why sign up for games if you're just going to go inactive, make a bunch of excuses, fake a ragequit, then come back again just to go "trolol just shoot me you guys all suck"
You retards shrugged off every attempt at activity I ever made as OMGUS and worthless and were going to lynch me regardless of what I said. When I left the thread, you guys had every intention of killing me, and zero intention of ever listening to me. Why on Earth would I waste my valuable time continuing to fight an uphill battle for no reason when my shits dismissed without even being read?
Hint: No one would.
So you align yourself for a modkill to avoid getting lynched and then at the last minute avoid the modkill? Horrible, shitty playstyle dude.... wtf.
I never intended to get modkilled. I intended to let myself get lynched by town. There is a distinct difference. What you are saying is against the rules for one, and two would result in my ban.
in what world is either of these "playing toward your wincondition"?
On March 01 2012 07:04 Toadesstern wrote: ok let me check this thing. Maybe I failed again like n2, but I'm pretty sure I doublechecked it this time
Why would medics protect RoL twice in a row? RoL are you bulletproof?
I never shot n2. I'm an avenger and therefore I'm not a normal vig.
I can only shoot after a townie was lynched and if the target voted for that person as well. n2 I did a last minute swtich and thought RoL voted for BH and realized only too late that he did not. That's why I asked him "RoL why are you still alive?" because I thought I shot. Then I realized he never voted for BH and I failed massivly.
This time however he voted for prpl according to our voting thread although there's no final votingcount which is kind of a bitch...
do you have more than one shot?
if you kill someone can you shoot again?
if you shoot someone and it fails can you shoot again?
On March 01 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: WBG were you made aware of who you were masoned with or did you have to ask him after you were given the link?
On March 01 2012 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote: or roleblock you, for that matter
If you're suggesting we're lynching VE instead I'm all up for that as well. Either you're mafia and not stupid enough to make a 3/3 townie list or you are against my better judgement indee townie and we should trust you => we should lynch into your list. Since prpl already flipped green and I know my own alignment that leaves us with VE
On March 01 2012 07:45 Jitsu wrote: K, so, instead of reading you're filter [again,] how about you post a case as to why he's suddenly mafia and how we need to vote for him.
On March 01 2012 07:55 Jitsu wrote: As DocH said, would you explain the reasoning how VE is mafia? Are you going to vote for him then?
I am going to vote for either VE or RoL. Both are mafia, WBG is most likely mafia and maybe someone else like docH or BC. I want to know what other people think about wether we should lynch VE or RoL first.
VE shouldn't be lynched because he's town, but at least I disagree that we should lynch RoL. Shucks sir.
Judging by the fact that kita is voting RoL, I think we lose.
I actually think RoL is town at this point.
We should be lynching Toad today; he as been completely anti-town all game and he's blaming me for us lynching townies, which is blatantly false and an easy way for scum to separate themselves from the lynches. The blame is equally upon all of town. For reference, kita said prpl was his #1 scumread yesterday, and yet he was as wrong as I. That doesn't make him scum, and to insinuate something like that would be blatant shirking of responsibility.
That's the running theme with Toad this game; he never takes responsibility for his actions, and has been completely self-concerned at every step of the way. Everything in Toad's play has been "how would I look after this lynch" and every single time he ensures that someone other than he takes the fall.
On March 02 2012 19:56 Toadesstern wrote: you know that bussing RoL won't give you towncred at this point in time anymore so you're still sticking with me?
On March 03 2012 03:40 kitaman27 wrote: It is extremely rare to see a newer player actively promoting a scum agenda through thread disruption. I've played like 10 games as scum and I still feel uncomfortable doing so. They only time I've ever gone out of my way to destroy the thread was WaW2 and that was simply because I had like 5 lives. It's so much easier to maintain a lower profile and jump on easy bandwagons similar to BC's style.
I have classes right now, but I'll be back in about an hour. I hope to see RoL with the majority by then.
I can only shoot after a townie was lynched and if the target voted for that person as well. n2 I did a last minute swtich and thought RoL voted for BH and realized only too late that he did not. That's why I asked him "RoL why are you still alive?" because I thought I shot. Then I realized he never voted for BH and I failed massivly.
On March 03 2012 03:39 Toadesstern wrote: I never wasted my role or did not understand it, don't know what you're talking about.
I can only shoot after a townie was lynched and if the target voted for that person as well. n2 I did a last minute swtich and thought RoL voted for BH and realized only too late that he did not. That's why I asked him "RoL why are you still alive?" because I thought I shot. Then I realized he never voted for BH and I failed massivly.
On March 03 2012 03:39 Toadesstern wrote: I never wasted my role or did not understand it, don't know what you're talking about.
I got one shot. Since you (mafia) quoted the right post anyways I can tell you that as well. I "failed" because I did not shoot that night although I wanted. I did not waste my power. I just shot a night later than I intended...
On March 03 2012 06:02 kitaman27 wrote: So you're saying that I'm scum layabout?
You're saying that I didn't receive a healing potion from syllo and got shot? So who else got the healing potion? You're saying that I decided to make jackal a confirmed town on night 1 and then procede to shoot him the next day, even though he was completely trolling the thread?
jitsu and cwave, I'm going to need your votes. Scum hit 5 players on toad first, so we need all six votes.
You are lying about the vote count RoL hit 4 votes, then Toad hit 4 votes. You are trying to force players to follow you by tunnelling, and hoping that they blindly sheep you.
You also did not make jackal confirmed town night1, but by killing him you did lay the ground for your claim.
meh I counted your vote twice. Does anyone else have a protective role that would explain the missing night hits? doubt it
On March 03 2012 06:02 kitaman27 wrote: So you're saying that I'm scum layabout?
You're saying that I didn't receive a healing potion from syllo and got shot? So who else got the healing potion? You're saying that I decided to make jackal a confirmed town on night 1 and then procede to shoot him the next day, even though he was completely trolling the thread?
jitsu and cwave, I'm going to need your votes. Scum hit 5 players on toad first, so we need all six votes.
You are lying about the vote count RoL hit 4 votes, then Toad hit 4 votes. You are trying to force players to follow you by tunnelling, and hoping that they blindly sheep you.
You also did not make jackal confirmed town night1, but by killing him you did lay the ground for your claim.
meh I counted your vote twice. Does anyone else have a protective role that would explain the missing night hits? doubt it
derp
derp
derp
derp
derp
derp
You say I can't be scum. You infer that I am lying. So what's my angle?
On February 23 2012 06:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Why is that scummy? It's a completely valid point, in fact the signup post even implies there is a third party.
Because a town player questions if a scummy player is scum. A scum player questions if a scum player is third party. They know he can't be scum.
On March 03 2012 06:02 kitaman27 wrote: So you're saying that I'm scum layabout?
You're saying that I didn't receive a healing potion from syllo and got shot? So who else got the healing potion? You're saying that I decided to make jackal a confirmed town on night 1 and then procede to shoot him the next day, even though he was completely trolling the thread?
jitsu and cwave, I'm going to need your votes. Scum hit 5 players on toad first, so we need all six votes.
You are lying about the vote count RoL hit 4 votes, then Toad hit 4 votes. You are trying to force players to follow you by tunnelling, and hoping that they blindly sheep you.
You also did not make jackal confirmed town night1, but by killing him you did lay the ground for your claim.
meh I counted your vote twice. Does anyone else have a protective role that would explain the missing night hits? doubt it
derp
derp
derp
derp
derp
derp
You say I can't be scum. You infer that I am lying. So what's my angle?
you're either retarded or third party.
I don't usually call people retarded, But when I do they are dead on right.
I called him retarded because he knows my role yet he asks if there's another protective role.
On March 03 2012 06:02 kitaman27 wrote: So you're saying that I'm scum layabout?
You're saying that I didn't receive a healing potion from syllo and got shot? So who else got the healing potion? You're saying that I decided to make jackal a confirmed town on night 1 and then procede to shoot him the next day, even though he was completely trolling the thread?
jitsu and cwave, I'm going to need your votes. Scum hit 5 players on toad first, so we need all six votes.
You are lying about the vote count RoL hit 4 votes, then Toad hit 4 votes. You are trying to force players to follow you by tunnelling, and hoping that they blindly sheep you.
You also did not make jackal confirmed town night1, but by killing him you did lay the ground for your claim.
meh I counted your vote twice. Does anyone else have a protective role that would explain the missing night hits? doubt it
derp
derp
derp
derp
derp
derp
You say I can't be scum. You infer that I am lying. So what's my angle?
you're either retarded or third party.
I don't usually call people retarded, But when I do they are dead on right.
I called him retarded because he knows my role yet he asks if there's another protective role.
mafiamedic who protected RoL doesn't count. He clearly was asking for other town protective roles.
On March 03 2012 06:33 kitaman27 wrote: its a shame that nobody really tried to put any effort into this game.
We have RoL who rage quit, BC who makes one post a day, nuke who has a few posts and then subs out, cwave who is apparently content voting by himself at lylo, chaoser who goes for a five day span without posting.
How are we supposed to scumhunt when there is a bunch of players with nothing of value. I could be wrong, but at least I'm trying :/
On February 24 2012 12:43 kitaman27 wrote: A zero kp setup seems extremely difficult to balance, especially for a "normal game". Scum might have a poisoner (in which we wouldn't have a notification), town might have ton of roles punishing mistakes, or scum might have some sort of conditional kp, but it seems much more likely they missed on their hits.
I now have good reason to believe I was roleblocked.
On February 24 2012 12:43 kitaman27 wrote: A zero kp setup seems extremely difficult to balance, especially for a "normal game". Scum might have a poisoner (in which we wouldn't have a notification), town might have ton of roles punishing mistakes, or scum might have some sort of conditional kp, but it seems much more likely they missed on their hits.
How would kita know that on d1?
This flip just mindfucked me. Yes, I was wrong about RoL, but more importantly I'm sure I was wrong about kita.
Kita comes to QT after I do this and claims coward.
Kita then asks the thread if there is a protective role that would explain the missing night kills.
Whoever is still town (I assume VE is probably town at this point, Toad probably town, etc.) needs to realize that kita is probably scum based on my role and based on the events that just transpired.
This bus was well calculated as it makes kita "confirmed" (especially as I probably had the misfortune of visiting kita on a night where I was roleblocked+mafia KP was most likely only 1) and it means mafia win unless we kill kita tomorrow.
On February 24 2012 12:43 kitaman27 wrote: A zero kp setup seems extremely difficult to balance, especially for a "normal game". Scum might have a poisoner (in which we wouldn't have a notification), town might have ton of roles punishing mistakes, or scum might have some sort of conditional kp, but it seems much more likely they missed on their hits.
How would kita know that on d1?
This flip just mindfucked me. Yes, I was wrong about RoL, but more importantly I'm sure I was wrong about kita.
why, just why should Kita have confirmed me as townie if he was not a townie himself? Unless of course you now think I am together with Kita mafia and we bussed RoL in which case: whatever, noones listening to you
omfg.
THAT'S WHAT SCUM DO
LOL
you're asking me, "why would scum do what scum do?"
it's like mind blowing, since in light of this flip you're more likely to be town. Your play is horrendous. Just use your brain.
On March 03 2012 08:05 VisceraEyes wrote: WBG - who have you protected each night? The fact that you claimed Weak Doctor (a role I'm assuming kills you if you protect scum?) means that you should have a laundry list of confirmed townies over the course of the game right? Why claim with no list? WTF?
because it's only two people; syllo, and kita.
based on the fact that kita straight up claimed my role (without the doctor part) and then proceeded to ask the thread "are there any protective roles left" means he's just fishing as scum to see if there are any blues he doesn't know about.
I claimed weak doctor to him and I gave him my night actions; syllo n1, Dr. H n2 and kita n3.
On February 29 2012 04:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
Dr. H, let's kill one of Toad or prpl. No one's voting Toad unfortunately as of yet, but people are voting prpl. Since RoL ragequit and is about to get modkilled I see no reason to lynch him.
WAIT WTF KITA IS LYING ABOUT WHAT I SAID IN THE QT
On March 03 2012 08:13 kitaman27 wrote: lol the "weak doctor" is claiming that the person he protected for two nights is scum. I fell right into that troll. -_-
you're lying about what I claimed and you're calling me the troll
On March 03 2012 08:11 kitaman27 wrote: He doesn't have one lol. We already argued with each other over this in the quicktopic. He claims to have protected syllo n1, me n2 and n3
His fake claim doesn't even work out due to this quote:
On February 24 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote: If I die, 100% kill Dr. H.
A weak doctor breadcrumbs his checks because if he dies and flips weak doctor then town has a confirmed red, Instead he is telling us to lynch DrH if he dies. What kind of weak doctor tells town to lynch someone, knowing that he could be protecting a scum syllo and cause a mislynch.
On February 28 2012 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote: @RoL: you're fucking lucky Toad scumslipped so hard, or I'd be pushing you like there's no tomorrow. All you do is lurk lurk lurk and then make excuses for your inactivity. That's exactly what you did when we were teammates in Couples Therapy and it's what you did (IIRC) in Purgatory as well.
"gosh darnnit, I'd really love to vote for you RoL, but all these townies are just so easy to push"
Remember this one?
Despite my green check on toad, you STILL decided to vote toad. You claimed to me that you protected me from a hit. You confirmed in the thread that I couldn't be scum.
AND YET YOU WOULD STILL RATHER VOTE TOAD OVER ROL INSISTING THAT THE CONFIRMED NONSCUM WAS LYING.
Oh right, you're scum. Why am I responding to you?
I already explained why I said what I said about Dr. H and it had literally nothing to do with my role and everything to do with LoTR.
It's a great thing for scum to point out though, since it's probably the biggest mistake I've made all game (and I've made quite a few so far)
On February 19 2012 21:05 Palmar wrote: Notifications
You will not receive any information you don’t need. You will not know if you were roleblocked, saved, investigated, visited or whether or not any of your actions had their desired effects or not. You can ask, but if I did not send you any information, you probably shouldn’t receive any.
So yeah, if he said that he saved you from a hit, he's a lying sack of scum Kita. He wouldn't know if he had or not. Right?
I didn't know if I saved him from a hit.
why the fuck do you think I'm calling him scum now?
rofl.
Basically the issue is that kita had pre-knowledge of a poisoner in the role. He comes out now and lies about the protections I claimed.
I could have been roleblocked; which makes complete sense in retrospect. I had no idea there was a poisoner, so I assumed that scum KP was 2; this is what I discussed with syllo.
Basically syllo told me he gave me a potion n1 to kita, and I told him I protected him (syllo). So, based on this info and 2 people flipping n2, I made the assumption that scum KP was 2. Syllo told me that night that he thought myself and Dr. H were the most likely shots because (based on our assumptions) both himself and kita had been hit once already.
I agreed and chose to protect Dr. H n2; this is why my interactions with Dr. H on day 3 seemed rather weird. I knew he was town because there was no way scum had 3 kp (and if they do that's fucking broken).
On February 28 2012 10:44 prplhz wrote: Can't you do something instead?
You make me smile prpl.
you need to step up and contribute.
You are almost 100% confirmed to me but you are doing nothing. Please. Do. Something.
this post was based on syllo giving kita the potion and him living; I didn't bother to protect kita on n2 because if he took a potion n1 and lived there was no way he would get shot n2. Ofc this was all on the assumption that mafia kp was 2; if mafia had a one shot poisoner (who poisoned Jackal? rofl wtf?) then I protected syllo n1 from the only scum shot that night and syllo gave kita a potion he would have simply discarded anyway.
This is also why on D3 I had no problem followng Dr. H (who was confirmed to me that night outside of me getting roleblocked; if I've been getting roleblocked then my visits are useless anyway) and kita onto prplhz. I was tainted by the fact that I blindly considered both players town, and I probably should've taken a step back and just realized prpl was playing badly.
D4 and I visited kita n3. This is the night I had to be roleblocked.
Now he's lying about what I claimed in the QT after claiming coward. What are the chances that there are two such roles in this game (given the number of blues that have flipped?) it's almost none.
Based on his behavior in the QT I kept calling kita third party, because there was something just off about what he was saying to me. He can lie all he wants and say i never said that, but I even said in thread he's either retarded or third party. If I was roleblocked, though,the simpler explanation is that he's just scum.
also if it isn't clear now, this is why I backed off on claiming when i realized it would be retarded to claim (when I had that spat with VE)
ofc scum caught onto it anyway and probably roleblocked me based on that. I recall kita even asking me, "where is that mindblowing claim" or whatever, and that should've been the hint.
I messed up hugely by OMGUSing VE out of pure frustration. That outted the fact that I had an important role and probably led me to being roleblocked.
On March 03 2012 08:55 VisceraEyes wrote: So you're saying that the question you were answering was "who are confirmed townies" and not "who have you protected each night"? Because the question I asked was the second one.
I answered that question in the same post, you even quoted it. You asked me two things: who are the confirmed townies, and who are the protections.
If you're claiming I contradicted myself in literally the same thought train, then that's ridiculous.
And up to this point I've kept thinking kita is confirmed, because I had no reason to believe I was roleblocked. I'm still not over the fact that I so blindly considered him town when he fished for my role and I outted myself.
On March 03 2012 08:05 VisceraEyes wrote: WBG - who have you protected each night? The fact that you claimed Weak Doctor (a role I'm assuming kills you if you protect scum?) means that you should have a laundry list of confirmed townies over the course of the game right? Why claim with no list? WTF?
because it's only two people; syllo, and kita.
based on the fact that kita straight up claimed my role (without the doctor part) and then proceeded to ask the thread "are there any protective roles left" means he's just fishing as scum to see if there are any blues he doesn't know about.
I claimed weak doctor to him and I gave him my night actions; syllo n1, Dr. H n2 and kita n3.
it's just a typo.
why would I say kita is confirmed town in this post after just telling you he's not?
On March 03 2012 08:11 kitaman27 wrote: He doesn't have one lol. We already argued with each other over this in the quicktopic. He claims to have protected syllo n1, me n2 and n3
His fake claim doesn't even work out due to this quote:
On February 24 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote: If I die, 100% kill Dr. H.
A weak doctor breadcrumbs his checks because if he dies and flips weak doctor then town has a confirmed red, Instead he is telling us to lynch DrH if he dies. What kind of weak doctor tells town to lynch someone, knowing that he could be protecting a scum syllo and cause a mislynch.
On February 28 2012 07:33 kitaman27 wrote:
On February 28 2012 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote: @RoL: you're fucking lucky Toad scumslipped so hard, or I'd be pushing you like there's no tomorrow. All you do is lurk lurk lurk and then make excuses for your inactivity. That's exactly what you did when we were teammates in Couples Therapy and it's what you did (IIRC) in Purgatory as well.
"gosh darnnit, I'd really love to vote for you RoL, but all these townies are just so easy to push"
Remember this one?
Despite my green check on toad, you STILL decided to vote toad. You claimed to me that you protected me from a hit. You confirmed in the thread that I couldn't be scum.
AND YET YOU WOULD STILL RATHER VOTE TOAD OVER ROL INSISTING THAT THE CONFIRMED NONSCUM WAS LYING.
Oh right, you're scum. Why am I responding to you?
I already explained why I said what I said about Dr. H and it had literally nothing to do with my role and everything to do with LoTR.
It's a great thing for scum to point out though, since it's probably the biggest mistake I've made all game (and I've made quite a few so far)
It seems to me that you protecting DocH n2 would mean that what you said about DrH would very much have everything to do with you role and nothing to do with LotR.
no, retard.
learn to read. I said that about Dr. H on NIGHT ONE, when I protected syllo.
On March 03 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: Don't bother letting him spam the thread. Bugs had me as a confirmed townie, yet still decided to vote toad even though I informed everyone that he was town. Knowing that it was 6v4 and a single misplaced town vote would end the game, he still chose to go against me, even though I was confirmed to him.
yes, because of the shit you were saying in the QT.
I want to finish the question I had before thst I never got around to finishing. Why did you have me so high up on your list? I could understand protecting toad, but why was I so high up.
the answer to this is that, despite the fact that you've done jack shit all game, kita knows you're town because he's scum.
On March 03 2012 09:23 wherebugsgo wrote: nah I'm just mad that kita can display total knowledge of a scum role and then actually manage to get away withit.
gg, town loses when I get lynched. sorry for my bad play. probably should've trolled harder, that was the only time people listened to me.
Where have I heard this before? Hmmmmmm......OH YEAH
On March 03 2012 06:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: lol just turned laptop on form work. gg guys way to blow the game exactly as I predicted two days ago.
Clearly that tactic didn't work with RoL. Who knows though, maybe you'll get lucky Bugs?
I'm not ragequitting, I'm just leaving for the night because there's nothing more I can do right now. I can reread all I want but I'm not the one that needs convincing.
it's nightphase and there's no point in me continuing to try to bash my head against a brick wall.
The evidence is there if you're town and you want to look at it. Kita on day 1 hinted at the existence of a poisoner; lo and behold poisoner is the first mafia role to flip.
Kita rolefishes for a protection role after basically claiming what I claimed to him in the QT, minus the doctor.
In addition, just ask yourself: why would syllo consider me town, town enough to give me a potion? why would I consider kita near-confirmed? why would I bother explaining anything of what I said?
Something to ponder: why have you not asked me why syllo would give me a potion if he knew I was weak doctor? (that's something I think a townie would want to know the answer to)
Why would I hold back on the roleclaim on d3? I was in a position where I thought you were scum on d3. I thought I had you trapped in that you were pursuing the most easily confirmable town role in the game. And then I realized scum could read everything I was writing and went "oh shit I shouldn't claim now bc I'll just be rb'ed." Ofc it didn't matter, scum knew based on what I was saying that I had some sort of role.
at any rate, I'm mostly mad at myself for basically committing XLV-level play all over again. This game has been exceedingly frustrating to deal with because the discussion has been poor and the results (up till today) have been unforgiving. syllo seemed very unmotivated to me when we were speaking and that did nothing to help because even the best townie didn't care about the outcome. This is also why I've been forgiving to players like BC and RoL, who have been completely absent. I disagree with you that BC is top-notch town, but I've agreed with everything he's said all game (what little of it, anyway.) When people are playing at this level, there's no motivation to post. The only motivation is the self-motivation to win. That's why I post. Maybe BC doesn't have that.
I care about whether we win or not, and scum are doing really well even if RoL was completely useless. We are not doing as well, and we cannot afford to lynch another townie.
However, there is an easy solution to tomorrow and if I'm right (for once) then tomorrow will be easy and there won't be anything to explain. We'll see after the nightpost, as I'm 100% sure I will live tonight.
But based on the fact that I almost considered kita confirmed scum, that means yes, scum are doing well. Even if kita dies tomorrow and the scum between layabout+tyrran dies the day afterward (or the other way around, it doesn't matter), we still have another scum to kill, unless redFF was that fourth scum all along.
So yes, I'd say that scum are in a better position than town right now. Lynching kita won't be easy because no one is going to want to listen to me.
On March 03 2012 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Where are you at on BC bugs? BC was one of four people on the Toadesstern lynch. What do you think about that dude?
I haven't found anything I have disagreed with in what BC has said. Apart from him calling kita scummy I didn't find anything strange in what he posted in his vote post on Toad, and the only reason I found that strange was because at the time I believed kita to be near 100% confirmed town.
The only thing I don't like about BC is that he's been inactive as hell, but as he's explained that and as I see no reason for anyone to actually want to play this game, I think it's understandable he has no motivation to post.
Yes, BC was voting Toad but so was I. Indeed Toad very well could still be scum, because there is at least one scum still alive beyond kita and the one scum between layabout/Tyrran.
At this point I find it odd that my strongest town read is you. Things change fast.
On March 03 2012 11:21 wherebugsgo wrote: The only thing I don't like about BC is that he's been inactive as hell, but as he's explained that and as I see no reason for anyone to actually want to play this game, I think it's understandable he has no motivation to post.
GOD QUIT SAYING SCUMMY THINGS
Saying shit like "I see no reason for anyone to actually want to play this game" is scummy as fuck bugs. Like, why? Why do you think it's okay to sign up for a game only to lose interest when people herp and derp around? THAT'S A FUCKING GIVEN IN THIS GAME! The community is growing, meaning we have a lot of new players who don't know what is and isn't indicative of alignment, and saying something like this only serves to breed apathy among the newer players, MAKING THE PROBLEM EVEN WORSE, NOT BETTER.
Apathy is NOT OKAY guys! Scum are NOT just going to tell us who they are, we have to KEEP TRYING NO MATTER HOW HOPELESS. Or give up. Does anyone just want to GIVE the game to scum? I don't.
/rant
Thanks for your thoughts bugs. I'm sure they'll be further illuminating come dawn.
How is that scummy? Why do you think I've trolled?
You've read Toad's posts. He has like a 70% chance of being town right now and he's said some of the weirdest things, things that just make me cringe and go wtf. You have no idea how demoralizing it is to make a case on someone and then later see something that makes them look town; it just tells you that you're pursuing someone who is legitimately playing so badly that they're helping the other team more than they're helping you.
That's what I feel every time I go back and reread prpl's, Dirkzor's, and BlazingHand's posts.
Look at Cwave/risknuke, Toad, Jitsu, layabout, Tyrran. At least two of them are town but none of them have actually played like town. Potentially 3 are town (if you or BC is scum).
On March 03 2012 12:11 kitaman27 wrote: lol don't let yourself get worked up VE, they are clutching at straws.
BC comes to make his largest post of the thread, explaining how I'm scum because I just led the lynch against the only red flip the entire game. Funny out of all the players who voted today, both BC and bugs decide I'm the one coming out looking the worst. RoL was on his scum list the entire game and toad he never commented on, yet when it came down to voting, he was on the wrong side, even after my green check.
I didn't "decide" anything, you're the one who said there was a poisoner before a poisoner flipped.
You're also the one who fished for "other protective roles" after I claimed weak doctor to you (and you claimed coward)
On March 03 2012 12:11 kitaman27 wrote: lol don't let yourself get worked up VE, they are clutching at straws.
BC comes to make his largest post of the thread, explaining how I'm scum because I just led the lynch against the only red flip the entire game. Funny out of all the players who voted today, both BC and bugs decide I'm the one coming out looking the worst. RoL was on his scum list the entire game and toad he never commented on, yet when it came down to voting, he was on the wrong side, even after my green check.
I didn't "decide" anything, you're the one who said there was a poisoner before a poisoner flipped.
Option A:
Kita saw that there were no hits on night one and figured there might be a poisoner.
Option B:
Kita knew his scumbuddy RoL just poisoned someone so he decided to tip off town to what they had in store.
Hey bugs, remember in the quicktopic how you mentioned there was 1 kp on night one and 2 kp on night two? When I asked you what you meant, you said you didn't realize nobody died night one.
Guess what, you're the one that has knowledge of the poisoner, not me
Wait a minute, did you trick me into responding again? Sneaky
you saw there were no hits on n1 after being given a healing potion...
right, so you go and assume there's a poisoner instead of assuming...I dunno, that you took a hit?
On March 03 2012 12:11 kitaman27 wrote: lol don't let yourself get worked up VE, they are clutching at straws.
BC comes to make his largest post of the thread, explaining how I'm scum because I just led the lynch against the only red flip the entire game. Funny out of all the players who voted today, both BC and bugs decide I'm the one coming out looking the worst. RoL was on his scum list the entire game and toad he never commented on, yet when it came down to voting, he was on the wrong side, even after my green check.
I didn't "decide" anything, you're the one who said there was a poisoner before a poisoner flipped.
Option A:
Kita saw that there were no hits on night one and figured there might be a poisoner.
Option B:
Kita knew his scumbuddy RoL just poisoned someone so he decided to tip off town to what they had in store.
Hey bugs, remember in the quicktopic how you mentioned there was 1 kp on night one and 2 kp on night two? When I asked you what you meant, you said you didn't realize nobody died night one.
Guess what, you're the one that has knowledge of the poisoner, not me
Wait a minute, did you trick me into responding again? Sneaky
you saw there were no hits on n1 after being given a healing potion...
right, so you go and assume there's a poisoner instead of assuming...I dunno, that you took a hit?
Nope, if you read the post that I quoted, I said that the most likely scenario is that the mafia missed their hits. But again, I'm arguing with a scum -_-
On March 04 2012 07:27 kitaman27 wrote: So at 6v3 as a weak doctor you decided to use your power knowing that if VE was scum, you would die and the two mafia kp would end the game with 3v3. You were so confident on your read (a person that you told me you thought was scum in the quicktopic) that you decided that submitting a medic action was worth risking the game?
actually I wanted to die, because this game is driving me insane.
On March 04 2012 09:05 Toadesstern wrote: looking for mafia in this situation (6v4 yesterday) would be stupid if what kita says is to be true. Better claim 10 secs before deadline who you checked and search for townies. Not that it's going to be something big either because he can always be RB'ed but I doubt we can afford kita to die if he really is town right now.
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
so basically you're saying, if he's town, since the only way to confirm his checks is for him to die, you don't want him to die.
lol @ everyone not believing my claim when a poisoner flipped and every night there has been a fluctuation in KP.
Kita conveniently flips between non-consideration of roleblocks and consideration of roleblocks as if he knows where they've been going every night. When I said I visited him he says I must assume he is 100% town but when something is not in his favor he says you can't make a proper determination because of the possibility of a roleblock.
Kita asks me why I would protect on a night with 2 KP...AFTER a poisoner flipped. So did scum have 2 KP last night? Why wouldn't I protect? Unless there is another protective role, which I highly doubt, I am the sole reason for mafia KP fluctuating. As in, I've been stopping shots almost every night. Yet you guys are willing to kill me over kita simply because he was correct once on a lynch. (and don't give me that "mafia could hold their shots" bullshit, they wouldn't hold their shots on multiple nights)
What's funny is that being on RoL is not alignment indicative at all when everyone called him scum.
Anyway if Kita is scum or third party he's going to win this game.
also I've come to the conclusion that I 100% stopped a hit last night, because unless mafia have two roleblockers (which is absurdly broken) then the true phone operator between layabout +Tyrran took the roleblock.
This is also why I'm being lynched today; I'm the easy lynch. Tomorrow they're going to try to lynch someone other than layabout/Tyrran because that will win them the game, since their night shot becomes unblockable. That target is probably going to be BC.
VE, this is all on you. You're the only 100% confirmed town right now.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Kita asks me why I would protect on a night with 2 KP...AFTER a poisoner flipped. So did scum have 2 KP last night? Why wouldn't I protect?
Poisoner is a delayed kp, meaning he kills the night after his death.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Anyway if Kita is scum or third party he's going to win this game.
Hopefully as town too.
How do we know that it functions like that in this game? I've never played with a poisoner before. Do we know how medic protections work against poisoned targets?
At any rate there is no plausible explanation for there being 0 KP last night other than me blocking a mafia hit on VE. If there really was 2 KP then someone else also stopped a shot, but that seems unlikely.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Kita asks me why I would protect on a night with 2 KP...AFTER a poisoner flipped. So did scum have 2 KP last night? Why wouldn't I protect?
Poisoner is a delayed kp, meaning he kills the night after his death.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Anyway if Kita is scum or third party he's going to win this game.
Hopefully as town too.
How do we know that it functions like that in this game? I've never played with a poisoner before. Do we know how medic protections work against poisoned targets?
Dunno, you're supposed to be the medic. You asking how your own role works? :p
On March 05 2012 08:48 wherebugsgo wrote: At any rate there is no plausible explanation for there being 0 KP last night other than me blocking a mafia hit on VE. If there really was 2 KP then someone else also stopped a shot, but that seems unlikely.
Maybe you decided not to shoot?
So first you say mafia had 2 KP last night, which contradicts the evidence of the flip.
Then you say "maybe mafia decided not to shoot," which by your logic should still leave 1 KP.
Which one is it, kita? You can't have it both ways.
Also yes, I know my own role but I have no idea what would happen if I targeted the target of the poisoner. If it's a delayed kill I have no clue whether I save the target on the night of the action or the night of the kill. If VE was the target of a delayed poison from n3 and I protected him AND mafia held their shot then it would make sense. However since I see no reason for mafia to hold their shot in that situation (they would surely kill two people to bring the game to 4v3/4v2) I don't find that plausible at all.
The only other case is that there exists another blue role that stopped the second KP. I find that unlikely as well simply based on the number of blues that have to exist. There's a phone op and me still alive; that's two. Four blues have flipped, that's 6. An avenger has claimed and based on pure statistics there's a >50% chance he'll flip town.
I don't think another protective role is likely at all.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Kita asks me why I would protect on a night with 2 KP...AFTER a poisoner flipped. So did scum have 2 KP last night? Why wouldn't I protect?
Poisoner is a delayed kp, meaning he kills the night after his death.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: Anyway if Kita is scum or third party he's going to win this game.
Hopefully as town too.
How do we know that it functions like that in this game? I've never played with a poisoner before. Do we know how medic protections work against poisoned targets?
Dunno, you're supposed to be the medic. You asking how your own role works? :p
On March 05 2012 08:48 wherebugsgo wrote: At any rate there is no plausible explanation for there being 0 KP last night other than me blocking a mafia hit on VE. If there really was 2 KP then someone else also stopped a shot, but that seems unlikely.
Maybe you decided not to shoot?
So first you say mafia had 2 KP last night, which contradicts the evidence of the flip.
Then you say "maybe mafia decided not to shoot," which by your logic should still leave 1 KP.
Which one is it, kita? You can't have it both ways.
You win bugs! I'm not sure how your mafia mechanics work out. Feel free to share.
On March 05 2012 07:57 wherebugsgo wrote: So what gives, kita?
So you're a claimed weak doctor that decides to protect VE knowing that if VE is scum you will die. Instead of announcing in the thread who you protected, you decided to wait until after the night post where there were no deaths. It's almost as if you knew you wouldn't die.
Actually yeah, I was certain I wouldn't die because I assumed mafia would roleblock me. I forgot that one of Tyrran+Layabout would probably be roleblocked over me. I even said "I'm 100% sure I won't die tonight" very early in the night for exactly that reason.
I hadn't sent in an action until very late, and Palmar asked me if I wanted to send anything in before he closed. I said alright fine protect VE. Then I just went and did homework. I figured there was no reason to breadcrumb when I was 100% roleblock material for an easy lynch today.
When I came back, I saw no one died and no one was masoned, which could mean only one thing: I protected a shot last night.
On March 05 2012 09:11 wherebugsgo wrote: I hadn't sent in an action until very late, and Palmar asked me if I wanted to send anything in before he closed. I said alright fine protect VE. Then I just went and did homework.
Lets not talk about interactions with the host. RoL tried that too with his "Palmar told me I had to vote or I'll be modkilled".
Jitsu and Tyrran, will you vote bugs now? We still have to vote together incase of a Floridian. I understand that you want to go after layabout today Tyrran, but the town doesn't have the same information you do. Lets give your operator participants claim another go tomorrow.
let me guess...if they don't vote me, they're scum.
On March 05 2012 15:56 Toadesstern wrote: mighty Captain-Toad to the rescue (Haven't read a thing yet):
Mafia has 1 KP + a oneshot-Poisoner.
N1 someone was protected. Most likely someone like kita or syllo or whatever. I do think we have a "normal" medic and a mafia medic for various reasons. Or a town medic + a mafia RB. Or a town medic + mafia RB + mafia medic. Anyways, I shot RoL and he was still alive. Protecting him would be an easy choice to have, roleblocking me would not be THAT hard given I slipped I am a vig if people took what I said for real and not for a question. So maybe I got roleblocked that night but I'd say medic sounds more reasonable.
N2 noone was protected. Syllo got shot or dropped dead after being poisoned n1. Jackal was the same. Either shot or dropped dead after being poisoned n1.
N3 we had a single kill again.
N4 we either had a medic other than WBG OR if mafia really is as fucked as it seems to: They decided to not shoot at all to buff up their "WBG is a medic, he saved one yesterday" claim.
1KP + 1 shot Poisoner seems to explain everything pretty neatly. Maybe it was a 2 shot poisoner and he had a save on n3 as well idk. I mean, why of all people should mafia shoot VE? 2 days ago I was all over him and I'd take him to lategame any second as mafia if he's a townie simply given that they might think I'm tunneling hardcore. Protecting VE might make sense if wbg is town. Roleblocking WBG makes sense from mafia point of view if WBG really is town, however this whole bullshit is just way to convenient and we got shitloads of evidence on wbg. He is a mafia trying to save his ass.
So you make the assumption that the poisoner is one shot...okay. On what basis? With the number of already-flipped blues in this setup, you think it's balanced for mafia to have one KP and a one shot poisoner? rofl.
Second, apparently you haven't been reading. N1, the only two medic actions that occurred were me on syllo and syllo on kita. Either kita got shot or syllo got shot; we don't know for sure. One of syllo or Jackal most likely got poisoned n1 and the other one got shot n2. Kurumi had to be shot n3 unless they poisoned chaoser n2.
N4 no one died, again, why would mafia choose not to shoot? They have an easy lynch on me; they can easily shoot any of the remaining townies and get that much closer to victory. With 3 scum alive a mislynch would bring it to 4v3 and they would win after one more shot. This makes total sense in light of kita being scum because he has to do nothing to get me lynched.
I told you all VE was my best townread yesterday. That was my hint for who my intended target was going to be. Did I breadcrumb it before the nightpost? No, because I didn't submit anything until very late. I decided to go with VE anyway because I figured I might as well if I had the remotest chance of stopping a hit (and that chance is 0 if I don't submit an action.)
Kita now is attempting to argue two things at once. He tried the "if mafia has 2 KP why would you act" argument, when I know there was likely only 1 KP the night Kurumi died, unless they double hit Kurumi (why the fuck would anyone do that) and the mafia poisoner had just flipped.
When that failed he flipped over to the "you scum held your shot" argument, which obviously is easily refuted when you consider the fact that it makes absolutely 0 sense for scum to hold a shot at this stage of the game. The game is not instantly won by one action, thus holding a shot is retarded. In Mini X or whenever it was that I held a shot, for example, I did it because it would win me the game if I just got one lynch off. In this case from the perspective of "wbg is scum" it makes no sense for me to hold a shot. If I hold a shot and then force a mislynch as scum, how am I going to win in the next cycle? At best it's 5v3 and then day starts as 4v3. I would be instantly lynched and it goes back to 4v2.
Roleblocking WBG makes sense from mafia point of view if WBG really is town, however this whole bullshit is just way to convenient and we got shitloads of evidence on wbg. He is a mafia trying to save his ass.
Clearly you still either lack reasoning skills, or you're the third scum.
Roleblocking me makes 0 sense because the scum were forced to roleblock into Tyrran/layabout.
If they roleblocked me, the guy between Tyrran/layabout who is not scum would be able to confirm himself and the other would die.
What evidence do you have on me? I'd love for you to actually show me the case on me, since so far all I've heard is...well..nothing.
The only thing that is not going in my favor is that I didn't vote to kill RoL. That's not "shitloads of evidence" and in fact it's not even alignment indicative.
Maybe it's a 1-shot poisoner, sounds a little weak but it sure looks like what we got according the kills. Maybe it's a 2-shot poisoner, sounds reasonable but we're missing a kill so that would mean 2 protections imo, which is fine for me as well. However I doubt it was unlimited because of the shitstorm-timing.
We don't know how medic protections work against poisoners (heck we don't even know how the poisoner works) so we're still just makings assumptions here. Unnecessary ones at that.
Besides; my original point was that kita was trying to use the 2 KP argument as to why I shouldn't have acted last night. Based on only kurumi dying on n3 I see no reason to even assume there was 2 consistent KP to begin with. So why would he say that?
About you're question why should mafia chose to not shoot? To save your ass and buff your medic claim or to confuse us and make us think they wanted to save your ass, therefore painting you read. I'm totally happy with lynching you since it's the first one.
cause the lack of a kill is clearly saving me right now, right?
And, I already refuted what you just said. If I'm mafia, not shooting would save me, at best, for one day. That accomplishes nothing because I die the next day (since kita would be town) and mafia would not win. Secondly, though this is not as conclusive as what I just said, if I'm mafia, why would I pick VE to call confirmed town and not my buddy between layabout+Tyrran? Why pick VE over anyone else, when for a whole day I pushed VE? VE would be the last person I would call confirmed town, simply because if I were mafia I'd be trying to lynch him right now. Just look at what he's doing (aka nothing). He'd be a great target to call scum, not town.
What's funniest is that you just fucked up your fake vig claim. Too bad once I die town loses, since I'm the only one capable of stopping a night hit :/
-_- how thick are you? Both Jitsu and Cwave denied getting any PMs about being masoned, which means I WAS NOT ROLEBLOCKED.
yay logic.
also how the fuck did layabout suddenly become my scumbuddy? what is this bs?
I didn't claim to be roleblocked today. In fact, I claim today I couldn't have been roleblocked except in the remote circumstance that there is more than one scum roleblocker. The idea itself is senseless. And, of course I protected someone. If there was another protective role, they would have counterclaimed me because that would 100% hammer my lynch.
And yet again you dodge my question regarding the evidence for me being scum.
seeing as VE has stopped playing, BC/Jitsu/Cwave/layabout/Tyrran never started playing, and kita + Toad are scum, I'd say the odds of us actually killing scum today are 0.
On March 05 2012 18:49 wherebugsgo wrote: -_- how thick are you? Both Jitsu and Cwave denied getting any PMs about being masoned, which means I WAS NOT ROLEBLOCKED.
yay logic.
also how the fuck did layabout suddenly become my scumbuddy? what is this bs?
I didn't claim to be roleblocked today. In fact, I claim today I couldn't have been roleblocked except in the remote circumstance that there is more than one scum roleblocker. The idea itself is senseless. And, of course I protected someone. If there was another protective role, they would have counterclaimed me because that would 100% hammer my lynch.
And yet again you dodge my question regarding the evidence for me being scum.
they claimed that after 10mins of the new day while palmar obviously was busy. That's why I am asking about this again. Could very well be palmar who was busy and therefore did not send out pm's in time.
I don't really know if we should make a medic claim though. Not to mention if you're really town you know damn well that a mafia could just fake claim that and given the situation make us mislynch into losing the game.
no.
a counterclaim right now would be a mafia counterclaim to ensure my lynch. Why? Because even if there is somehow ANOTHER town medic (which would be fucking broken, 3 prot roles in a game with max 2 scum KP) if they believed I was scum lying about my claim they would have counterclaimed a long time ago. Indeed the only reason they would do that is if they themselves protected VE.
However scum, if bold enough, would counterclaim me right now because no one would move their vote off me in that case. Given the state of this game and how it's played out, though, scum are not that bold, they're lurking pussies. That's why I didn't hesitate in claiming yesterday (it was also because I made a realization that was so huge I needed to claim in order for it to make sense) and that's also why I don't fear a scum counterclaim. They'd just out themselves unnecessarily and if there is a KP role left when I die they'd risk getting shot, particularly as they don't need to do anything more to ensure my lynch.
The funniest part about yesterday was kita claiming a weaker version of what I claimed, a couple hours after I claimed in the QT.
Anyone who actually wants to win as town, just ask yourself those questions that I posed earlier in the thread and you'll see why kita can't possibly be town. Why as a town role that confirms people would he ever visit someone other than syllo n1? Why wouldn't he visit me? Why would he visit Toad? Why would he visit Cwave (the fuck?)
Why wouldn't he visit BC? Or RoL? Or me? Or syllo? Or VE? All of these players are better potential checks than ANY of the players he considered. Visiting Cwave (rofl) is just retarded, and kita is not that dumb as town.
These "checks" are essentially of the same caliber as supersoft's from PYP:I. He was scum hider, and he hid behind people who were never going to get shot. He was dumb enough to truthfully provide these, so I got town to nuke him.
On March 05 2012 18:49 wherebugsgo wrote: -_- how thick are you? Both Jitsu and Cwave denied getting any PMs about being masoned, which means I WAS NOT ROLEBLOCKED.
yay logic.
also how the fuck did layabout suddenly become my scumbuddy? what is this bs?
I didn't claim to be roleblocked today. In fact, I claim today I couldn't have been roleblocked except in the remote circumstance that there is more than one scum roleblocker. The idea itself is senseless. And, of course I protected someone. If there was another protective role, they would have counterclaimed me because that would 100% hammer my lynch.
And yet again you dodge my question regarding the evidence for me being scum.
they claimed that after 10mins of the new day while palmar obviously was busy. That's why I am asking about this again. Could very well be palmar who was busy and therefore did not send out pm's in time.
I don't really know if we should make a medic claim though. Not to mention if you're really town you know damn well that a mafia could just fake claim that and given the situation make us mislynch into losing the game.
no. 1) a counterclaim right now would be a mafia counterclaim to ensure my lynch. Why? Because even if there is somehow ANOTHER town medic (which would be fucking broken, 3 prot roles in a game with max 2 scum KP) if they believed I was scum lying about my claim they would have counterclaimed a long time ago. Indeed the only reason they would do that is if they themselves protected VE. 2) However scum, if bold enough, would counterclaim me right now because no one would move their vote off me in that case. Given the state of this game and how it's played out, though, scum are not that bold, they're lurking pussies. That's why I didn't hesitate in claiming yesterday (it was also because I made a realization that was so huge I needed to claim in order for it to make sense) and that's also why I don't fear a scum counterclaim. They'd just out themselves unnecessarily and if there is a KP role left when I die they'd risk getting shot, particularly as they don't need to do anything more to ensure my lynch.
The funniest part about yesterday was kita claiming a weaker version of what I claimed, a couple hours after I claimed in the QT. 3) Anyone who actually wants to win as town, just ask yourself those questions that I posed earlier in the thread and you'll see why kita can't possibly be town. Why as a town role that confirms people would he ever visit someone other than syllo n1? Why wouldn't he visit me? Why would he visit Toad? Why would he visit Cwave (the fuck?)
Why wouldn't he visit BC? Or RoL? Or me? Or syllo? Or VE? All of these players are better potential checks than ANY of the players he considered. Visiting Cwave (rofl) is just retarded, and kita is not that dumb as town.
These "checks" are essentially of the same caliber as supersoft's from PYP:I. He was scum hider, and he hid behind people who were never going to get shot. He was dumb enough to truthfully provide these, so I got town to nuke him.
1) We've got a suicide bomber who killed DocH. You really think so? Or could it POSSIBLY be a medic who doesn't want to claim because he's a medic and simply thinks you're mafia as well, therefore thinking something along the lines "well better only claim when it's needed" or someone who isn't aware of what might be imba and what not? You're telling me all game long that I need to stop speculate about this game and how it is designed, yet you're allowed to do that?
2) Mafia clearly has no interest in counterclaiming you. That could be both, mafia being happy to see you lynched without doing a shit or mafia not willing to sacrifice another of thir members. So idk if they should or would do that.
3) I think the important part here is not to die while confirming townies because right now we need every townie alive? Especially townies who can play this game
I'm not speculating anything that isn't plausible.
You're speculating a bunch of shit that makes no sense. In fact, what are you even accusing me of speculating about?
2) Mafia clearly has no interest in counterclaiming you. That could be both, mafia being happy to see you lynched without doing a shit or mafia not willing to sacrifice another of thir members. So idk if they should or would do that.
nice scumslip.
Scum would not be interested in counterclaiming me because there is no point, as I just said. Once I die scum win with a successful hit unless there is a third party they have to hunt.
3) I think the important part here is not to die while confirming townies because right now we need every townie alive? Especially townies who can play this game
not really, because he hasn't confirmed anyone, because of the possibility of roleblock every night (he admits this himself.)
In addition, confirming someone who is useless doesn't accomplish anything. Confirming someone like syllo, though, is amazing, and something that town kita would definitely do. Confirming someone like BC is again something town kita would consider. The list goes on.
The last person on a list of people I would want to see confirmed is someone like Cwave-likely to do nothing as either alignment, which means knowing he is town is useless and sacrificing yourself to out him as scum is just as bad.
Anyway, I already explained why I chose VE; after yesterday by process of elimination he became my strongest scumread,
If kita is scum and one of Tyrran/layabout is scum then obviously the chance of me hitting scum in the remaining 8 players is very low (and at this point it's likely to be Toad.)
Why should I bother doing anything at this point when no one is playing the game? I've logically refuted every singl point made against me (there hasn't been much) and I've shown exactly why we should be lynching Kita. But because TL mafia is obsessed with a results-oriented approach, you guys are going to end up fucking yourselves.
And Kita, like Toad, says there's more than enough evidence to support lynching me but no one has supported the lynch with a shred of evidence. ofc at this point it's fruitless for me to ask because it's Kita and Toad repeatedly shutting down all doubts and they're scum.
On March 06 2012 06:14 VisceraEyes wrote: You're saying that there was a two-way scum lynch yesterday, and scum were all on one and town were all on the other - that's what you're suggesting?
Town had to be on both, but scum were probably all on one, yes.
Either that or I'm just wrong about Toad and someone else like Cwave is scum.
Actually Kita claimed at the time he claimed to make my claim look bad.
Basically what happened was he undercut my claim by claiming first, and I imagine that he used the time in-between when I claimed and he claimed to come up with the checks.
On March 05 2012 18:49 wherebugsgo wrote: -_- how thick are you? Both Jitsu and Cwave denied getting any PMs about being masoned, which means I WAS NOT ROLEBLOCKED.
yay logic.
also how the fuck did layabout suddenly become my scumbuddy? what is this bs?
I didn't claim to be roleblocked today. In fact, I claim today I couldn't have been roleblocked except in the remote circumstance that there is more than one scum roleblocker. The idea itself is senseless. And, of course I protected someone. If there was another protective role, they would have counterclaimed me because that would 100% hammer my lynch.
And yet again you dodge my question regarding the evidence for me being scum.
they claimed that after 10mins of the new day while palmar obviously was busy. That's why I am asking about this again. Could very well be palmar who was busy and therefore did not send out pm's in time.
I don't really know if we should make a medic claim though. Not to mention if you're really town you know damn well that a mafia could just fake claim that and given the situation make us mislynch into losing the game.
To repeat, i didnt get any notification about mason action or whatever.
He admitted he's not reading posts, so he's never going to see that.
On March 06 2012 06:47 kitaman27 wrote: Naw I already provided a case:
Bugs protects me as a weak doctor and acknowledges that I can't be scum Bugs votes Toad I inform Bugs that Toad is green in the quicktopic Bugs continues to vote Toad I ask bugs again if he thinks I'm scum Bugs still thinks I'm town RoL flips red Bugs thinks I'm scum
This not a case nor is it an accurate description of the facts.
Nor is it "shitloads of evidence" (it's almost nothing)
Finally at no point did I ever call you town. Why would I have been so obsessed with the possibility of you being third party if I was sure I wasn't roleblocked? No reason for me to conclude anything if I wasn't sure to begin with.
I wish I had a bit more time to think during this game. I will probably be policy bussing RoL if he's ever on a scumteam with me again lololol
Also I noticed on the night syllo gave me the pot, if I drank it we could've RBed someone other than VE. I knew it was a healing pot but I forgot to send my action in (my team also told me not to take the risk) If we got town to kill VE instead of prpl we would've had a much better chance at winning after day 3.
Last thing I want to mention is that I think this setup had too many blues. It essentially had two town investigative roles: tracker, and hider. Some of the roles didn't seem roleblockable (for example, is alchemist roleblockable?) The existence of the town RB meant that town could stop KP in three different ways: hider drawing hits, alchemist giving potions, and RBer targeting poisoner/killer. Honestly if I were the RB I would've targeted RoL every night and it would have resulted in Jackal surviving. 9 blues and 4 greens...when have you seen a setup where the number of blues outnumbers both vanilla town and scum combined? Hell, blues made up half the playerbase.
Also Toad it doesn't matter that you caught any of us when you singlehandedly were one of the worst players for town.
Saying something like "I don't care that there's third party when they're helping town" is funny in retrospect, but really really dumb.
As town your goal is to kill all nontown, indiscriminately. As the setup is closed you have no idea what you're up against, so you just kill whoeever fits a scum agenda. VE wasn'f playing to his town meta (look at the countercase I built on him d3; 100% of that case, I would repeat as a townie)
Layabout and I tried swinging the town lynch onto VE multiple times. Ultimately I think we could have approached that differently and potentially gotten him killed for our gain if we opposed the prpl lynch, or bussed RoL. However in terms of self preservation and not knowing 100% at the time it was difficult to make that assessment.
Also something that's funny is that it's really really easy to find third parties as scum. In every scum game I've played that had third party in it, I've caught onto them, with my strongest case often being on them. Ex. MLP tnkted was third party, in L Palmar was traitor, in AC Palmar/Kurumi were third party, and this game with VE.
I guess I should push those reads more strongly in thread and back off the obv town mislynches :p
On March 13 2012 07:37 wherebugsgo wrote: Hahahahahahahahahaha
GJ on the win VE.
I wish I had a bit more time to think during this game. I will probably be policy bussing RoL if he's ever on a scumteam with me again lololol
Also I noticed on the night syllo gave me the pot, if I drank it we could've RBed someone other than VE. I knew it was a healing pot but I forgot to send my action in (my team also told me not to take the risk) If we got town to kill VE instead of prpl we would've had a much better chance at winning after day 3.
Last thing I want to mention is that I think this setup had too many blues. It essentially had two town investigative roles: tracker, and hider. Some of the roles didn't seem roleblockable (for example, is alchemist roleblockable?) The existence of the town RB meant that town could stop KP in three different ways: hider drawing hits, alchemist giving potions, and RBer targeting poisoner/killer. Honestly if I were the RB I would've targeted RoL every night and it would have resulted in Jackal surviving. 9 blues and 4 greens...when have you seen a setup where the number of blues outnumbers both vanilla town and scum combined? Hell, blues made up half the playerbase.
Yet, you guys still lost...lol.
Counting the number of blues is decieving. Plenty of hosts have used the formula #blue=mafia count * 2
The foresnic expert's only purpose was to verify the existance of a third party player. Floridian is pretty weak. The vig's were nerfed and the hider is about as low as you can go on the tier list of investigative roles. Add in the fact that mafia had 4 power roles and it's not all that bad. I'm not sure why you guys got a bonebreaker, rather than roleblocker though. Unless I'm missing its use?
I do agree that the roleblocker being able to stop scum kp is too powerful.
Scum qt link?
Forensic expert could determine whether a vig killed someone (e.g. syllo)
In a setup of this size normally you have 5-6 blues. You have some sort of town one shot or two shot KP, one or two investigative roles, one or two protective roles, and then one or two "weaker" roles (or at least less prominent in terms of actions, like a mason pair or double voter)
In this game you had an infinite vet/town confirmer in the hider. If you want to be a vet forever just hide behind someone who will never get shot, and the only way you can die is if you're roleblocked. Otherwise you can slowly start confirming people.
You had a hybrid KP/protective role in the alchemist. No idea if he had a limit on uses, and he's not as powerful as you might think, but still useful.
Floridian whose extra vote doesn't appear; that's incredibly strong (stronger than you'd think in cases of split votes. D1 it could have been instrumental)
Town RB who could: stop my protection (allowing town vig or SK to kill my target) stop poisoner, stop killer, stop SK, stop RB. 5 good targets out of 17 or less every night is real good odds.
Vig who activated when town lost a player to lynch; essentially a failsafe vig who would be perpetually tunneled on voting lists. In a way, weaker than a normal vig, but still strong. If we hadn't janitored redFF n1 we'd probablyhave seen Toad shoot into us because all four of us were on redFF.
Tracker. Having played as one myself I think it's easy to say that this is a really powerful role.
On March 13 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Also Toad it doesn't matter that you caught any of us when you singlehandedly were one of the worst players for town.
Saying something like "I don't care that there's third party when they're helping town" is funny in retrospect, but really really dumb.
As town your goal is to kill all nontown, indiscriminately. As the setup is closed you have no idea what you're up against, so you just kill whoeever fits a scum agenda. VE wasn'f playing to his town meta (look at the countercase I built on him d3; 100% of that case, I would repeat as a townie)
Layabout and I tried swinging the town lynch onto VE multiple times. Ultimately I think we could have approached that differently and potentially gotten him killed for our gain if we opposed the prpl lynch, or bussed RoL. However in terms of self preservation and not knowing 100% at the time it was difficult to make that assessment.
Also something that's funny is that it's really really easy to find third parties as scum. In every scum game I've played that had third party in it, I've caught onto them, with my strongest case often being on them. Ex. MLP tnkted was third party, in L Palmar was traitor, in AC Palmar/Kurumi were third party, and this game with VE.
I guess I should push those reads more strongly in thread and back off the obv town mislynches :p
yeah but we were at lylo. How can people even suggest talking about 3rd parties when we desperatly need to kill mafia first. That's the point. I did not care about 3rd parties as long as there were confirmed mafias around and the 3rd party thing was a guess which, if wrong, would have caused us to insta-lose the game. Even if it was right lynching the 3rd party instead of a mafia could have lost us the game at some point.
Except it should've been obvious there was an SK when two people died (IIRC?)
Also, generally the only way most SKs can die is through lynch. Which means, at that stage in the game, you have to lynch the SK because otherwise you can't kill him.
RoL I'd suggest next time you join a game, you actually play it. The only reason I didn't bus you day 1 was because you kept promising to be active, and you were actually on skype. Hell, you were on long enough to argue with the hosts for 2 hours.
Mafia is a teamgame, and your play this game was essentially that of the freeloader in a group project.
On March 13 2012 08:24 wherebugsgo wrote: RoL I'd suggest next time you join a game, you actually play it. The only reason I didn't bus you day 1 was because you kept promising to be active, and you were actually on skype. Hell, you were on long enough to argue with the hosts for 2 hours.
Mafia is a teamgame, and your play this game was essentially that of the freeloader in a group project.
yeah, I know you are pissed. Sorry about that, work schedule + school + girlfriend I can't do it. I don't plan on playing another game no matter how tempting until I break up with girlfriend, quit my job, or graduate. Any two of the above and I would have enough time to play.
While I would agree that my play was poor and a reason we lost, you should of acknowledged that I had too many people gunning for me by day 2 and 3 that trying to not let me die day 4 was stupid. I spoke to you guys all day 3 about how if this worked you should be bussing me the next day. Instead we got greedy and went for the win when it was extremely unlikely we would get it.
Nah. There's one reason you died instead of Toad that day and it's the fact that you chose to say anything at all.
VE had his vote firmly planted on Toad and it would've resulted in us winning but you decided to start posting in the thread. The stuff you posted was incredibly scummy too (I was reading it and lolling afterwards) and VE switched. Jitsu and Cwave were manipulable as well, but once you essentially claimed scum it was over.
This goes to anyone in that kind of situation: if you've been inactive all game, before trying to defend yourself as scum, talk to your team. Sometimes it's better to just either continue your inactivity or at least pass the posts through your teammates for approval.
Sure, it was a mistake for us not to bus you, but on d4 even if we did bus you it would be impossible to shake suspicion. Our best time to bus was day 2 or day 3.
we RBed you because you were completely obvious about having a gun -_-
we never at any point considered your reads a threat outside of you potentially shooting us.
From a mafia perspective that's the only reason I'll ever roleblock someone, and since most players are relatively unpredictable it just means hunting anyone with a gun and RBing them.
I think I understand the balance concerns with having a BP SK. IMO they should be, at best, one shot BP, not completely BP, because in such situations as we had this game, it becomes nearly impossible for scum to kill them. The optimal play for any SK when town is being lynched is to shoot into scum. So, that means we're forced to RB the SK. That's exactly what happened both n1 and n2.
N3 we could've chosen not to RB VE but we made an incorrect assumption about the number and type of blues in the game. We assumed there were around 6, not 9. Thus, when we were relatively safe we assumed there couldn't potentially be 3 KP floating around (ultimately we realized there was 3 KP floating around, IIRC) because we killed syllo, so we assumed the only other vig was one of VE/Toad.
Since roleblocking VE had worked out for us up till that point, there was no reason to switch off.
On March 13 2012 11:42 wherebugsgo wrote: we RBed you because you were completely obvious about having a gun -_-
we never at any point considered your reads a threat outside of you potentially shooting us.
From a mafia perspective that's the only reason I'll ever roleblock someone, and since most players are relatively unpredictable it just means hunting anyone with a gun and RBing them.
I think I understand the balance concerns with having a BP SK. IMO they should be, at best, one shot BP, not completely BP, because in such situations as we had this game, it becomes nearly impossible for scum to kill them. The optimal play for any SK when town is being lynched is to shoot into scum. So, that means we're forced to RB the SK. That's exactly what happened both n1 and n2.
N3 we could've chosen not to RB VE but we made an incorrect assumption about the number and type of blues in the game. We assumed there were around 6, not 9. Thus, when we were relatively safe we assumed there couldn't potentially be 3 KP floating around (ultimately we realized there was 3 KP floating around, IIRC) because we killed syllo, so we assumed the only other vig was one of VE/Toad.
Since roleblocking VE had worked out for us up till that point, there was no reason to switch off.
don't get me wrong, I don't mean that your reads were bad. I mean that there was no chance in hell any townie was going to listen to you, because none of them were reading anything.
When a bunch of townies don't even read their own posts, basically anything can happen.
On March 13 2012 11:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Fair enough - put that way it sounded like you were saying "Psh, VE? Puh-leeze."
I get what you mean though - it sucks but you're probably right.
yeah, I realized that when I reread it lol.
you played really well; the only thing I think you could've done differently is perhaps not announce so boldly that you had a gun.
I guess it worked out because you were bulletproof. Normally when I play I'm wary of that type of stuff, but I guess when you're BP you don't give a fuck.
also, I wanted to leave Dr. H alive because, if we killed him, we lost an avenue of reason. Oddly enough we were looking for reasonable players. We should've just shot randomly into the town and we would've been closer to winning because of the KP actually hitting. I knew i could reason with Dr. H because he was the only person apart from kita and syllo who was playing with some semblance of logic. VE was to some extent as well, but he was constantly against us, so we would've preferred that he died.
thanks to Palmar for hosting! (but please reduce the number of blues in the future :p )
EDIT: oh and sandro. come play in my next game. hosted...soon.
On March 13 2012 12:45 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Wait, if scum role-blocking stopped VE's shot, but VE killed cwave and end-gamed kita, does that mean cwave didn't roleblock him? He bought the "I'm kinda a vet" being the town role over Kita's claim/overall play? -_______-
Ye that's actually something I was afraid of when I first got the button. Then I accidentally hit report when on my iPhone and it led me to a confirmation page :p