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On February 21 2012 14:26 Blazinghand wrote:
So your contention is "redFF is playing as bad town rather than scum", and although lynching bad town isn't the worst thing we could do, it's substantially preferable to lynch scum. This is a fair point. I will reread thread.
you're still wrong, but whatever.
My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true)
I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding.
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syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF?
I think I was completely wrong about him.
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On February 22 2012 06:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF?
I think I was completely wrong about him. Pretty much all you've said about him is "he's bad, that's all I can say" Are you now saying that you really actually had a read on him you weren't sharing in spite of being asked repeatedly and that now you're reversing it? Or are you thinking you were wrong and redFF's play has actually been good all this time? Or what are you saying here?
I guess there's no point in waiting till syllo replies, but first of all, get the sand out of your crotch and stop thinking everything's a conspiracy to make you confused.
I think he might actually be scum, based on his "read" of Toad that immediately followed on drunk Jackal saying Toad is scum. I found it extremely weird at the time but I didn't mention anything because red is dumb. But then, later I saw that Jackal said his read was fake. redFF posted this:
On February 22 2012 02:05 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:30 Jackal58 wrote:On February 22 2012 01:19 Tyrran wrote:On February 22 2012 01:06 Jackal58 wrote:
Red - What did you see in Toad's filter that made you agree with me? Do you still think toad is scum? If yes, why ? Never did. You wily old fox you.
which not only is hilarious, but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done.
##unvote chaoser
##vote redFF
and yes, I'm going back on everything I said earlier. redFF is bad but I think I'm being too pessimistic by saying he's unreadable (and it's going to be a challenge now!)
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On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker.
so all scum should just claim blue day 1 and they're fine?
nah. I say we still lynch you. You claim at 5 votes at 24 hours into day 1, and expect to get off the hook that easily?
Nah. At least for me, I have the balls to lynch you.
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On February 22 2012 07:16 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
...but first of all, get the sand out of your crotch and stop thinking everything's a conspiracy to make you confused.
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
...and yes, I'm going back on everything I said earlier. wat?
about redFF.
he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective.
Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable.
Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do?
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On February 22 2012 07:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:25 redFF wrote:On February 22 2012 07:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote:
inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker. Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue. But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth. So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment. heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me. I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1? If you are town it shouldn't be hard to show that and get us to back off on the right track. Claiming just adds confusion and expectations suck.
wtf is this supposed to say
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On February 21 2012 21:47 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 12:43 wherebugsgo wrote:On February 21 2012 12:32 chaoser wrote:On February 21 2012 12:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On February 21 2012 12:04 chaoser wrote:If you notice though, that specific quote from Ace was towards the players of that game ASKING others for their LIST of town (and scum) reads in a no flip game. It was basically a game that was easy to manipulate and a situation where EVERYONE was giving out reads like woah. That is different from this case because it is only me giving my read. So if mafia wants, they can try to manipulate me and that's about it. Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends. I don't really see a problem because I don't plan to criss cross my reads with my votes (why would a townie need to do this) without explaining my change in reads first. The second point, again, doesn't matter since it's only my read and so mafia really can't tell who has "Strong" support or not. Either way, there are ways for mafia to gauge "support" aside from seeing people's town reads. Just by looking at voting threads, one can usually deduce who is being supported and who isn't. So that quote doesn't apply to this situation at all. Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck as much as I love to call him terrible, if he actually is town no one is going to defend him anyway and so you have no idea whether or not we're actually doing a good thing here. Imagine VE being scum and you just called him town. You give him credence and reliability if he's scum. If he actually is town we don't actually gain anything except an opinion of yours, that, if you are town, can be manipulated. Certainly it's manipulable regardless of VE's real alignment. If I'm not being clear enough: If I were scum, I'd love for people to do what town-Ace hates. I'm not cocky enough to think that people will take my townie read at face value and will be highly regarded. As you can see, many people in the game don't care much for my thoughts at the moment anyway. RedFF is being voted on cause he's been scummy/playing shitty, not because I'm giving credulousness to VE. Ace's opinion is completely relevant here because the person with the least support = redFF and he's getting bandwagoned to fuck At this point, it's only a few hours into day one and there's only like 4 votes on him, hardly what I'd call someone being "bandwagoned to fuck", especially with people saying they want to move off his lynch. I doubt we're going to sit on him and just waste the day. Do you? I still don't think you've made a good case for why my giving a town read on VE was a bad move. Let's say we agree to disagree and move on. Toad, what do you think about Jackal saying you're scum. And what do you think about the recent developments regarding RedFF? Does he still deserve a lynch, especially if we can't find anyone else to lynch by the end of the day? I care about your opinion, same as I care about the opinion of the majority of the players in this game.[...] Finally, you probably know this, but as it's early morning in Europe I doubt Toad will be posting any time soon. I do not know if that is supposed to be irony or mafia-Bugs brownnosing :p With all seriousness I find that post weird. Bugs just isn't the helpful kind of guy as a townie and this looks like a helpful kind of guy. If someone like myself would make that post that'd be fine, same with pretty much everyone else in here, especially the newer ones but bugs?
You're the hyperagressive guy aren't you?I don't mind you telling people it was late in europe at that time (I went to bed at 2am, so it had to be later than that) but isn't bugs usually the guy who might see this kind of thing but won't say a thing because he wants the other guy to defend himself nevertheless the get some reads? Remember L? He knew I was Town all along or at least for the last couple of days according to what he said. Yet he kept pushing me like a mad man, for fun and although he never said that he probably that to get some reads out of people like myself or people who are attacking me / defending me. So I've got to say the few lines out of that big post I quoted make we feel like it's not bugs usual agressive style. You all saw what he was like when talking to redFF although that's over the top because it's redFF and I think those two don't like each other. It's a minor thing but again, it really made me think for a moment. still reading :p
course I'm helpful. People just don't see it when I'm being a raging asshole because of how retarded average town play is.
Basically if you want a couple reasons as to why I pointed out you were asleep, here you go:
1. I abused activity times in MLP as scum to push or influence players I knew couldn't respond. Example: Forumite, Nisani. I influenced Forumite's opinions during day when I knew he was asleep and then I pushed Nisani as scum both when he could respond and at like 2 am in the morning when I knew he couldn't.
2. As town I prefer immediate responses, which is why I don't often pose specific questions to players unless I know they're active. This is because I don't like giving scum time to fake responses. This is why I waited so long to ask syllo anything; I knew syllo would not be able to respond at the time so I chose to ask him just now because it's more likely he's online.
3. Recently in Hammer I died day 1 because my keyboard broke and I couldn't respond to the lynch. That sucks.
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On February 22 2012 07:29 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:23 redFF wrote:
Explain how everything I've done has scum motivations wbg.
I don't explain shit to scum to help them defend themselves, sorry.
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On February 22 2012 07:35 redFF wrote:
VE- I've provided scumreads in the form of kita and Toad, I've also said I'd be fine with a layabout lynch.
Bugs how would explaining how everything I've done has scum motivations help me defend myself. I think its just a phrase you threw out to make your vote seem legit.
stfu scum
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On February 22 2012 07:42 redFF wrote:
I usually enjoy mafia but wbg has made this game incredibly unfun. wbg if you're sole goal in playing has been to make me mad, consider it accomplished. im out.
inb4 lol, AtE, drama queen, w/e, you're a fucking dick and you actively drive people from this forum.
peace.
*your
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Jackal
would you kill redFF right now if you had a gun?
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On February 22 2012 10:49 Blazinghand wrote:
This wagon is rolling pretty easily >.>
you say this after being the last person to vote him.
lul
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On February 22 2012 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:
An easy-rolling wagon doesn't negate the fact that he's scum.
cool, you possess basic reasoning skills.
anything else you want to point out for us while you're here?
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On February 22 2012 11:03 Blazinghand wrote:WBG: Oh thank you blazinghand you are so helpful Me: no problem man, any time WBG: Seriously I'd like buy you sangwhiches and stuff. I like walks on the beach Me: hey man that's kinda crossing the line I'm not really into- WBG: DONT YOU LOVE ME??? *click*
I'm so glad I can smurf by logging into your account and posting this useless shit
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On February 22 2012 11:11 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 11:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On February 22 2012 11:03 Blazinghand wrote:On February 22 2012 10:55 Blazinghand wrote:
This is a game of mafia! WBG: Oh thank you blazinghand you are so helpful Me: no problem man, any time WBG: Seriously I'd like buy you sangwhiches and stuff. I like walks on the beach Me: hey man that's kinda crossing the line I'm not really into- WBG: DONT YOU LOVE ME??? *click* I'm so glad I can smurf by logging into your account and posting this useless shit Yeah I dunno why you keep talking to yourself, or log into your smurf to post fake conversations of you talking to you
so is this your admission that you like spamming?
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On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote:
I'll vote redFF to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that.
yeah it does.
go read again.
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from my understanding based on the wording of how ties work, no-lynch is not possible.
Is it possible for a no-lynch to occur?
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On February 22 2012 11:29 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo It did appear very clearly in the OP that you can't ask questions to the host in the thread though, you have to PM your questions. Also, I think it's plurality lynch.
it was in a spoiler that I forgot about since I ctrl-f'd right before :p
On February 22 2012 11:29 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo How do you feel about syllogism's accusations against BloodyC0bbler?
they're pretty weak and I don't know what syllo is going on about.
The fact that you agree with his accusations only cements my existing opinion.
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On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote:
Cool.
Anyway, don't you think that this redFF lynch is an easy way out for scum? Right now, it's going to be very hard to argue against a redFF lynch and I don't think he's scum because he's just been too much out there. All of his "misrepresentation" looks like he was just a bit overburdened by the load he put on himself, and I don't really think they look overly malicious.
How is anything you have said here indicative of redFF being town?
If I were scum and redFF was on my team I'd bus him. So yeah, perhaps the lynch is an easy way out for scum because regardless of his alignment redFF would probably get bandwagoned by them.
If you think that redFF is an easy way out for scum why don't you explain which players on his wagon are scum? You really think BC would play that badly as scum to bandwagon someone as the what... fifth vote?
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote:
When was the last time you saw a scum go out during the first hours of day1 and misrepresent somebody's opinions to legitimately push their lynch? Everybody in this game can right now just jump on redFF with 20 hours left in the day and that would kinda be ruinous if redFF isn't scum.
First of all, why does it matter if it hasn't happened before?
Second of all, I do it all the fucking time as scum. Look at Responsibility. All I did was misrepresent opinions and I was the first damn vote on LSB. I led that lynch by stretching my points as much as possible.
Third, look at any game in which scum dies day 1 and you'll see a pattern: they played fucking terribly. How is that different in this case?
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote:
The only thing that looks really weird to me was his claim but he did announce in the thread that he would claim soon if people started piling onto him. Then you started pushing his lynch and he claimed and that makes it kinda expected. Also, his extra information (busdriver/redirector conjecturing) seems like too much hassle for redFF if he was really scum.
How is it expected for someone to claim this early based on four votes? Especially based on me voting him, when he apparently thinks I suck and am simply antagonistic?
Everything he has done since I voted him (and I even defended him for a long while before I voted him) has shown that he is simply panicking and trying to stay alive. In what way is leaving him alive going to help us?
Plus, the roleblock thing is retarded. If he actually is town don't you think he'll come back tomorrow and say "oh hey guys I got roleblocked."? So again, answer me this: what use does a living redFF have for us?
As long as redFF is alive, he's going to suck up the discussion and cause us to talk about him. If we leave him alive we have two scenarios:
1. He gets roleblocked and returns with no result. So, people try to kill him based on what he said today. If people disagree with wanting to kill him, we end up in a massive loop of "why aren't we killing redFF"
2. He doesn't get roleblocked and people come and say "why didn't he get roleblocked? Mafia would definitely roleblock him! He needs to die!" Since he claimed tracker, regardless of his actual alignment his result will most probably be completely useless even if he's not roleblocked. If he's scum obviously his "result" will be useless, and if he's town we'll still have no idea what to do with the result unless he tracks the night kill.
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote:
If redFF is your strongest scum read, who's your second strongest scum read?
Doctor Helvetica.
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On February 22 2012 11:56 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo Ad hominems are really fucking stupid in this game. There are hardly any new players you could hope to bully into anything. All you can achieve is make people dislike you which will reduce your town pull, or maybe starting a pissing contest that will make it harder for meaningful discussion to take place while cluttering up the thread.
I haven't personally attacked anyone in this thread.
I have called them bad, I have said that their play sucks, and that they are in general useless for town. All of these things are game-relevant and actually pretty important.
If you're referring to the fact that I said your agreement with syllo cements my opinion that syllo is wrong, then yes, you deserved that (and no, it is not ad hominem.)
It is my opinion that syllo is wrong, and your agreement is bad. That's just indicative of you being bad. Since Dr. H also agrees with syllo, and his posting has been quite shitty, I think he's scum.
On February 22 2012 11:46 prplhz wrote:
So maybe you could cut down on them. Also, my neck is fucking killing me so I'm probably a bit cranky right now.
@RebirthOfLeGenD So, redFF or BloodyC0bbler, who's it gonna be?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out that your opinion is worth next to nothing since it's clearly wrong.
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EPT
