Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII

On February 17 2012 11:23 EchelonTee wrote:


I agree, we should lynch lurkers. in a 12 man setup, Mafia can't lurk as easily or they lose like nubs. Newbie III is an example. with 15, they can hide away, as we lynch scummy looking newbs.

If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT.

On February 17 2012 11:48 EchelonTee wrote:


I'm not trying to offend you, or needlessly discredit you; your post was just hard to understand, and I did not quite understand the purpose of what you did. post however you please.

as a random aside: Mafia gets heated, so if I'm acting like an asshole just let me know and I'll tone back.

On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote:
did you feel threatened? :D

On February 17 2012 12:21 EchelonTee wrote:


Did I accuse you of being Mafia? don't twist my words.

there a motives for both townie and scum to do so.

On February 17 2012 12:51 Steveling wrote:
What does FOS mean anyway?

On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote:


T

To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature could provide the perfect platform for a mafia players critique.

A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so.

That said I doubt that Ech would take this huge and obvious of a risk this early on(as he did) if he was maf, we still have tons of time, if Ech backs off we shall know if he's trying to hide after taking so much heat and therefore he's probably worried about an investigation or a lynch.

His only route is to keep being an aggressive poster and hopefully dig his way out of the ditch with some phoenix wright quality analysis.

I also really don't like Ech's controversial move of casting doubt on a specific player for not yet posting when there are several players still lurking. I don't care if you wanted to draw him out you could've just asked for his opinion on something.

On February 17 2012 13:19 EchelonTee wrote:
Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability.

Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people?

Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off.

On February 17 2012 17:11 Janaan wrote:
2. The bout between Sloosh and EchelonTee. I'm seeing Sloosh using a hint of WIFOM reasoning, but not enough for me to call it scummy action. I will keep my eye on him, though. As far as EchelonTee goes, I actually follow his reasoning pretty well, he does seem to be getting a bit defensive, though.

On February 18 2012 04:19 DoYouHas wrote:
sl0osh, he overreacted badly to a perfectly fine way of calling him out. Everything in his exchange was just an extended version of OMGUS (attacking the person who attacked you only because he attacked you). I think it is too easy to dismiss sl0osh's failure to see the reason behind ET's actions as his standard confirmation bias. Not acknowledging that ET's initial reference to him was purely to get him talking, not to frame him as mafia. I also thought that whole post about ET's tone was just a big pot of confirmation bias.

On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.

So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.

The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.

But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.

What do you guys think?

On February 18 2012 05:34 DoYouHas wrote:


1. This refers to you failing to see the reasons behind ET's pressuring of you. Your post about ET's attitude towards yourself and gumshoe is not based in that failing.

2. THIS refers to that post about attitude. A post which I thought was clearly founded in confirmation bias.

They were 2 opinions about 2 sections of your exchange with ET. You treating them both as if they referred to the same thing is wrong.

(You = sl0osh)

On February 18 2012 06:22 gumshoe wrote:


Ironically enough sheth plays a lot of tl mafia, and he's less cuddly then you'd expect. That said at one point he was suggesting that his own lynch was towns most viable move...

On February 18 2012 06:30 DoYouHas wrote:
My logic is that sl0osh is a decent to good player of mafia. As such I believe it is scummy for sl0osh to have ignored obvious reasoning and launched into OMGUS. It is that simple. I don't believe the quality of player that sl0osh is would have reacted in the way that sl0osh did as a townie.

On February 17 2012 13:51 slOosh wrote:
Calm down. The worst scenario for town is to have discussion dominated by two townies going at each others throats.
So unless you think I am mafia, I would suggest that we both keep the town's best interest in mind and promote a good atmosphere.

On February 18 2012 12:48 Steveling wrote:
And tbh I didn't read your wall of text either. I almost had a seizure first time I saw it,xD, pls learn how to format it in an appropriate way. Pm me if you want.

On February 19 2012 04:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Take note that the only person he has expressed an opinion on that didn't first attack him is gumshoe, and even those opinions are non-committal. sl0osh has done almost exactly what ET has done, except he hasn't provided us with any stances that we can later use against him. I refuse to believe that with 4hours left in the day, sl0osh has no opinions or cases worth posting. He is just trying to slide by, I won't let him.
##Vote: sl0osh

On February 19 2012 04:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Take note that the only person he has expressed an opinion on that didn't first attack him is gumshoe, and even those opinions are non-committal. sl0osh has done almost exactly what ET has done, except he hasn't provided us with any stances that we can later use against him. I refuse to believe that with 4hours left in the day, sl0osh has no opinions or cases worth posting. He is just trying to slide by, I won't let him.
##Vote: sl0osh

On February 19 2012 06:02 DoYouHas wrote:
I am not comfortable lynching Midnight, ET, or Dimmuklok. A no lynch is preferable to me at this point. If I have not been convincing enough with my case against sl0osh, so be it. Find the majority without me.
##Vote sl0osh

On February 19 2012 05:20 MidnightGladius wrote:
sl00sh has been quiet, but I'm going to leave him be for now. He doesn't stand out from the rest of the lurkers, and I don't think pressuring him with this little time left in the day will be as effective as just confirming our lynch for the day. Your post left out your thoughts on EchelonTee. What are your thoughts on him and his posting?

On February 19 2012 06:27 Janaan wrote:
At this point, it's looking like the lynch will be either Echelon or a no-lynch. I am still undecided as to which I prefer. On the one hand, I'm not really getting a scum read from Echelon, just a aggressive townie. On the other, we need information. I am usually in favor of lynching, since it provides information that is unavailable any other way. If there's a no lynch, the voting record is almost entirely useless for the day. For now, I'll vote. I just hope that it's not a huge mistake.

##Unvote: DimmuKlok
##Vote: EchelonTee

On February 19 2012 06:23 slOosh wrote:

I discourage trying to lynch MidnightGladius today. Not because he is leaving me alone, but because his focus is on finding scum, not using his precious first day vote to pressure me.

On February 19 2012 11:39 jaj22 wrote:
Gah, just realised why that lynch was dumb, which is silly because I figured it last night. Before the last rush, the distribution of the votes and the active player count meant that it was essentially impossible to lynch scum. The correct choice was to no-lynch.

Off to flagellate myself and then sleep. We do the 20-hour dummy voting run on day 2.

On February 19 2012 15:30 gumshoe wrote:
Theres a chance(I wont say a good one because I got fried for that last time) that one of these intelligent players is mafia

in which case I think trying to find individual flaws in all their posts wont turn up much right now because their a bit more experienced than the average bear. You can yell at HAS for his play as much as you want, but hes is active and he proposed a no lynch(or a sloosh lynch) on the turn we lynched a townie. That looks bad on us, not him.

On February 19 2012 16:14 DoYouHas wrote:

Trying to stop a bandwagon onto someone I think is town is anti-town? Up until that point I had not made my stance on gumshoe clear. I posted my defense in the hopes that my stance would be clear, that hopefully people would agree with me and we could move from gumshoe on to more productive targets, or if not that at least through attacking my reasons for gumshoe being town the discussion could become more constructive than just hammering away at gumshoe himself. I was upset that my defense of gumshoe failed to get discussed because with Steveling and Midnight going after gumshoe, my defense was relevant to the discussion. Yet it was largely ignored. I don't like being ignored. I thought I brought up good points, but those who agreed with me didn't voice that opinion, and those who disagreed just ignored it.

On February 19 2012 16:14 DoYouHas wrote:

First off, I was not throwing accusations at Midnight, TKHawkins, and Dimmuklok. I was pointing out things that I found while trying to make cases that I thought should be said even though I was not going to push for their lynch.
Secondly, slOosh has incorrectly summarized the reasoning behind my pushing him. It is not, "I will be harder to read later on, so it is best to lynch me now." It is that I see slOosh as having studiously avoided posting things that would be useful in analysis of day 1 in respect of the information gained by a lynch. Instead he filled his filter with explanations and clarifications, not with stances and cases. (remember, this is before his case on me)

On February 19 2012 16:14 DoYouHas wrote:

I have no reads? I had a meta read on sl0osh early. I provided the original reasoning that put MannerKiss on everyone's radar. I had a town read on gumshoe, which I revealed and defended. I trusted my read on slOosh enough to vote for him and stick with it even if it meant a no-lynch. As for not putting in effort into my case on slOosh, that is wrong as well. One of the things I learned from NMM3 was that a PBPA with a wall of text tends to clutter your good points with your bad ones while simultaneously pulling you into confirmation bias. So when I made my case against slOosh, I tried to be concise, I tried to focus on a fundamental flaw in his day1 behavior, and I provided the posting evidence to back up my conclusion.

I will respond to others if I must. But I feel I've addressed the most of the points against me in this post and the previous one.

On February 20 2012 03:26 jaj22 wrote:

It was speculative reasoning at the time, but I hinted at it in these two posts:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13573775
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13574870

I'll explain the eventual reasoning because it's important for the conclusion. Before the late compromise switch, we had 4-5 players each on ET and MG who had no interest in switching to the other, plus another 6 votes scattered between DYH, Sloosh, Gumshoe and DimmuKlok. We had maybe 6-7 players who were active and willing to switch votes. Unless by some fluke scum were all absent for the lynch, we needed scum support to reach 8 votes.

The trouble is that this is extremely likely to happen again, because it's a consequence of the lynch deadline. We really need to be narrowing down the field of candidates long before the deadline so that every townie has a chance to make their vote count.

The plan: We set a dummy deadline 27 hours after the start of day 2, and we try to get a "lynch" by then. Anyone not treating the deadline seriously should be considered scummy.

Someone please agree with this plan before I go completely insane.

On February 19 2012 17:58 DoYouHas wrote:
Grrrr, you KEEP twisting my words. When I dropped my meta read I said it was so that BOTH of us could be constructive in the cases that were happening around us as we had a back and forth. NOT solely for the purpose of me finding other lynch candidates.

What is frustrating me so much is that you are throwing rocks while living in a glass house. You find the fact that I didn't quickly create cases against new people after dropping my original one on you scummy. Yet after you were freed from having to defend yourself did you do any of these things you expected of me? NO. When you defend your lack of cases and stances, you say it is because with 15 people in the game its harder to sift through the filters and come up with a strong case, did you EVER think to apply this reasoning to me? Nope. The only explanation for my inability to make a large strong case after dropping my meta one against you is that I'm scum. It is incredibly hypocritical. And again you seem to miss the point of my case against you. It is not what you have posted, it is what you haven't posted that raises my suspicion. And that is another thing that bothers me. I was not 100% on you being scum. I just did not want to lynch the available candidates and I thought that you would be much more likely to flip scum based on my own reasoning. But now I find myself pigeonholed into pushing you because defending my reasons for suspecting you is all I can do while multiple people are pushing me.

What is this about me having no desire to follow up and convince others to lynch you? I gave plenty of notice about my schedule. I can't follow up on my case to further persuade people when I am not here. Both you and gumshoe seem to think I am somehow this mastermind that orchestrated a false absence in order to create a no-lynch. Which is absurd because a no-lynch isn't ideal for scum any more than it is ideal for town.

On February 20 2012 11:46 Mattchew wrote:


i said that Steve reads townie. thats much different than what you said. plus it was asked of me

On February 20 2012 11:32 DoYouHas wrote:
My town reads are: trackd00r, ET, gumshoe, slOosh, and blae000.

This leaves a pool of 8 people in which I think all mafia are present. That is where I am looking now, and that is who I am building cases on.

On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'm really not sure where to go from here.

On February 19 2012 08:21 MidnightGladius wrote:
There is no way we're letting a no lynch happen, not after this Day 1.

On February 19 2012 08:37 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'd be willing to switch onto either DYH or DimmuKlok, but I think the only one we can actually get a majority on right now is DimmuKlok. If more people post to indicate that they're active, I would rather lynch DYH instead.

On February 19 2012 09:52 MidnightGladius wrote:
I told you earlier that I felt more suspicious of DYH than DimmuKlok, but that I didn't think that we could have had a majority on him. This remains true, because if DYH were scum we'd assuredly never get majority, and the people who were in the thread at the time had already posted suspicions of DimmuKlok but not DYH.
He has been awfully quiet and detached. I certainly would like him to speak up.

On February 20 2012 06:03 MidnightGladius wrote:
My next case will be on Alderan:
[case on Alderan]

On February 20 2012 08:29 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'm staying out of the current DYH/sl00sh debate, because their responses are pretty valid. I think they're starting to talk past each other, now, and so I decided to look in other directions.

I was originally suspicious of DYH when he hadn't yet started responding to our questions, when he wasn't clear on his stance towards lynching, and when he stayed on sl00sh throughout the end of voting without being online to prevent a no-lynch. My thoughts of him now are that he's still being stubborn on the mislynch in hindsight, but I can understand where he's coming from.

On February 20 2012 13:42 EchelonTee wrote:


I will wait for Alderan to respond; you should let DYH respond as well, at least until the psuedo deadline at 16 PST tomorrow.

On February 20 2012 12:02 slOosh wrote:


WOW. Lynch him NOW.

15 players to start. 1 lynched, 1 shot. That leaves 13 players.

He posts 5 town reads, and concludes all mafia in the remaining 8 people, of which he is one.

Don't even wait for his case. Lynch him.

On February 20 2012 14:04 EchelonTee wrote:

...how is it that you weren't shot last night?

##Vote: DoYouHas

On February 20 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:
Sounds good. My read on you was based upon you thinking DYH as town. As you state that you don't, I drop my suspicion.

My point about him making a case is that he will actually try making a proper case.
Notice he FOSed you, not voted.

On February 20 2012 18:14 Steveling wrote:
My case has one weak point atm. I did not account for sloosh being a scum as well.
And I did not, cause I do not read him as as such.
I'd like some opinions on that.

My vote atm goes to DYH.

vote##: DoYouHas

On another note, people don't panic please. And stop making these lists. We need solid stuff. Not fluff.
Also if you are gonna spend 1 hour filtering only to say that you find x and y to be town, then pls do something else.
We need opinions on scum not on town.

On February 21 2012 00:36 Steveling wrote:


Offering something solid /= randomly accusing someone just to enrich my filter.
My general playstyle is to try and find clues. I'm not gut guessing or throwing random punches hoping to hit something good. So it takes time.
Anyway I'll try to give more opinions.

But I don't like your 2nd point. I spent quite enough time on the DYH case to have you telling me that I contributed nothing and that I'm "nitpicking random junk". T_T
I know it's not my case, but I think I offered new clues.

On February 21 2012 02:34 Mattchew wrote:
sloosh thoughts on dis shit right hur?

i gtg for an hour ill be back

On February 21 2012 05:51 Alderan wrote:
He has tunneled harder than anyone in this thread, while attempting to squash any other discussion (discussion about me included). A quote like this is the most damning.




He has drawn such a distinct line in the sand that anyone who feels DYH is town must be scum. That flies in the face of optimal town play, so much so that I would say he is my number one suspicion at the moment.

On February 20 2012 12:42 slOosh wrote:
TOWN ARE YOU TRYING TO GO FOR NO LYNCH AGAIN???


We have ONE Lynch. ONE. If you want to FOS someone else you better have a good reason why you aren't voting DYH or Midnight or Echelon or whoever.
We find and lynch mafia ONE AT A TIME.

On February 20 2012 12:52 Mattchew wrote:


this. 100x over this

On February 21 2012 10:39 slOosh wrote:

Not reading anything till you explain this.

On February 21 2012 09:21 Mattchew wrote:
sloosh i want you to drop the DYH tunnel you have and actually look at this

DYH you were already on hawkins a little read this through

gumshoe read this carefully and quote it properly if you want to reply

ald and steve i think you might have been starting to head this way, I will now take you to the promised land

ET you might have been getting at this but idk where you were actually headed

Janaan you seem to just want a lynch read this and want these lynches

##unvote Doyouhas

##vote TKHawkins

On February 21 2012 00:41 Mattchew wrote:
As of right now


rgTheSchworz - lets give him a chance to post a little
DoYouHas - should be lynched today

Of these five, 2 or 3 should be the remaining scum team (+/- rg) This is who vig should shoot into in this order
Alderan
TKHawkins
trackd00r
Janaan
zelblade

Remaining Skeptical of
EchelonTee

When is night post?
anyone can answer this

On February 21 2012 00:46 Mattchew wrote:
I read DYH's filter and there are a bunch of good cases on him. That is my reason for voting him. I am accountable for my vote and my agreeing with others reads.

On February 21 2012 03:30 Mattchew wrote:
I don't want to de-rail the DYH lynching I think it is the right play

On February 21 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:
oh... and wouldnt you know they are all on DYH... doesnt that lynch seem to be going through just TOO easily... yes it does.
(i know this is a little WIFOM but combined with my prior posts it turns more into logic)

On February 21 2012 11:21 Mattchew wrote:
regarding DYH

This is Palmar's smurf (Palmar isone of the best scum hunters on TL, he found every mafia in this newbie game day 1)

(post link)



this is DYH pushing town away from lynching lurkers

the difference between me and sloosh is when townies don't vote his way he calls them scum, i just call them stupid

On February 19 2012 08:24 zelblade wrote:
slOosh and DYH attacking each other is .... interesting. The seeming lack of sloosh explaining his own views in indeed suspisious. He has posted a case on DYH - but only after being called out. The fact that it seems like an OMGUS doesnt exactly help either. However, his case on DYH is pretty good imo. I have no idea why DYH would want to advocate a no lynch this late. The way he phrases that post seems to give off the feel that he doesnt care much about the lynch. This feels really scummy and the fact that he isnt pushing any reads and is even fine with a no lynch - which he has stated against. Whats with the sudden change in attitude DYH? I think that DYH has a really good chance of flipping scum.

With that, I believe that DYH might be our best lynch for today. Although sl0osh seems somewhat suspisious, I believe that DYH is actually a better lynch due to his nonchalant attitude.

##Unvote
##Vote: DoYouHas

On February 19 2012 23:27 zelblade wrote:
Now onto Sloosh and DoYouHas.

As I have stated, I find it extremely suspisious of DYH's actions leading up to the lynch. Though he has given his motivations for advocating the no lynch, I still find it a little wierd, especially regarding his attitude. If he was indeed being stubborn on sloosh as he says, I would have expected him to push harder with something more convincing than this:

Still, his responses against sloosh's case is good and seems valid. This doesnt clear him in my eyes though. Moving on to sloosh, I agree with DYH - he has been really hyprotical regarding DYH, and a good portion of what he accuses DYH of can apply to him as well. What I reallly am interested in would be sloosh's response to this. At this point though, I am fairly convinced that one of them is scum. Doubt that they are both scum, unless this is an elaborate bus which I highly doubt.

On February 19 2012 23:27 zelblade wrote:
Im posting my reads in case I die tonight. I would have prefered posting this closer towards the end of night, but am posting it now as I have school tomorrow and need to go sleep now, and will not be online from around now to about 5.00 KST (+8).

... (the quote above fits in here) ...

Another thing. I believe that all of you should post your reads tonight. If you dont believe in the value of posting your town reads (MG), just post your scum ones than. The reason for this is simple - we want to have as much information from you in case you are shot tonight.

On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along.

On February 20 2012 13:54 MidnightGladius wrote:


He has plenty of time to respond, but he has to know that there is pressure on him to respond, and quickly. Especially with our time zone problems, I'm not willing to let him effectively skip a whole day phase without offering any new reads.

On February 22 2012 12:09 MidnightGladius wrote:
Are you sure that you're even willing to be convinced at this point? I can see the writing on the wall, and I don't want to waste my breath when I could be doing something less frustrating and more productive instead.

On February 19 2012 08:35 trackd00r wrote:
Lynch time is approaching.
ET, I just hope that you keep posting good cases like that. Even though I disagree with MG lynch, your last posts are making up my mind. I'm going to unvote by now.

On February 21 2012 05:29 trackd00r wrote:
This was careless play by my part. I tried to push a ET lynch. Half an hour before the lynch, I realized that we were about to no-lynch.
-I didn't want to hold my vote to ET because there were a couple of players that wouldn't change his vote to him by any means.

On February 23 2012 06:49 Mattchew wrote:
1. I left rgTheSchworz off my list accidentally. He belongs with Janaan in the Null/least town read section. He's smart and should be able to contribute more. His reason for voting DYH seemed like he hadn't read the thread and with his late entrance and Gum's gazillion word posts I don't blame him. If someone on my list doesn't turn up to be scum and he's still not productive he should be looked at very very carefully.

This means that of those 6 I firmly believe the entire scum team is there. With the possibility of there being no medic or vig, I think we have 2 mis-lynches so we should be able to lynch all 6 before the game is through.

On February 18 2012 21:25 Steveling wrote:
Anyway,my pro town reads so far are trackd00r and sloosh.

On February 21 2012 19:49 Steveling wrote:
Um, ok regarding my thoughts on trackdoor.

You know how I like to find little clues here and there and prove them wrong, right? That's my scumhunting tactic.
Well after examining trackdoors filter I found out there's not even one and I mean zero, nada posts with substance.

It's 100% fluff.

He made 3 big posts in this exact manner.

On February 18 2012 01:59 trackd00r wrote:
On February 18 2012 06:28 trackd00r wrote:
On February 18 2012 11:39 trackd00r wrote:

On February 23 2012 11:11 Steveling wrote:
I think my quotations were pretty obvious to go into trouble to explain.

I hadn't yet filtered him obviously. I just had the impression of pro-town posting behavior.
I made this case AFTER I filtered him and seen each post individually.

And anyway,besides that, how on earth are you ignoring trackdoors and hawkings cases to turn on me?
What's the reason behind this turn?

I'm calling to your reasoning, you didn't listen to it on DYH case for which you said you took full responsibility and I didn't hold you accountable for that, because I reasoned things out. Do the same.

On February 23 2012 11:17 Mattchew wrote:
we are at the stage of mislynch and lose (if we don't have a doc which i doubt we do).

Meaning scum can bus and kill 0 - 3 straight nights and if we mislynch 1 time of those they win... meaning there are a lot of possibilities track

I think we need to lynch certain scum and I think the only 2 I am still sure of is tkhawk and zelbade

TKhawk is because of his completely terrible attitude to getting accused. He looks for pure sympathy to not be lynched and never provides any actual reason why he shouldn't

Zelblade rages hard at me which is funny cause he is raging at me for being too aggressive. Its contradictory.

I think sloosh you may have something with steveling but I believe in these 2 more. Steveling is a little risky to me to lynch today for a couple reasons.I like this post and I like this post. Both say that he is unsure of MG making me unsure of him.

On February 23 2012 11:25 Mattchew wrote:
I am basing my lets not lynch him today because of that

On February 23 2012 12:05 Steveling wrote:


Because I value cases. That's how.
Do you know why I didn't believe Midnight was scum? Did you even read my filter?
Because I said there wasn't a solid case against him. Only minor stuff.

The real question here is HOW CAN YOU vote for me above all when we are in MYLO situation.
There's no solid case on me. There's not even a case. And you are skipping on two hard constructed cases for what?

If this was day one I wouldn't mind. But we will lose now, and we will lose because you are fixating on a comprehension error based on a 7 years old vocabulary.
You are not making sense.

On February 23 2012 12:01 EchelonTee wrote:
If the scum team included trackd00r, it would mean that he is being bused, as at least 3/6 of the people here think that he is scum. I wouldn't lynch him today, at the very least. The same goes for TKHawkins. TK might even be modkilled, so we should leave him for now.

Of the people available, I would be most comfortable lynching zelblade, or rgTheSchworz. Why rG? The only opinions on him have been "he's pro town/should post a bit more". He hasn't gotten the same scrutiny that MannerKiss got D1.

On February 23 2012 12:19 Steveling wrote:
How can you even ask me that after all I said.

Let me make clear my opinion, anyone else except trackdoor and hawkings is suicide.

On February 23 2012 12:36 Steveling wrote:
What happened to 1 lynch at a time. Just hours ago everyone thought of it like a gospel.
Guess what changed with the double town killing tonight.
Nothing. That's right.
There are still four scum.
We still have two solid cases.

It's 5am now but the worse thing is, I feel like nothing good came out of it. Cya tomorrow.

On February 22 2012 05:06 gumshoe wrote:
Tell me how Hawk wasn't the reason a townie died.

Tell me why he is actively trying to seem so hostile to the point that we will never listen to him.

Tell me how his tunnel on Janaan is useful.

Tell me how he's so sure that I am town.

But most of all please tell me a story about why this man is not mafia. So that I can tell you a story about why you are.

On February 23 2012 01:06 slOosh wrote:
I still don't like the basis of his case, that he did some filter pickings and chose 4 people who avoided each other.
However, I cannot argue with results - it has promoted discussion and the suspects are posting more content.
Objectively he is producing pro town content, even though it is through antagonistic means.
I have to say he is leaning town right now.

However, I am still waiting for his own reads. Enough content has been flying around and I want to see him to present a good case. The goal isn't content but using it to strengthen a case and lynch the strongest mafia suspect.

On February 22 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote:
Alderan is town because there is literally nothing scummy about his play at all. If we are right about the other 3 being scum theres no way in hell they would let him (or he would) post anything about the switch from ET to Dimmu, which he did

On February 23 2012 04:03 Mattchew wrote:
Alderan - There is no way he would bus or bring to light that many scum with him also bringing up the first night's last hour switch. He puts a focus on a very scummy event and with no real cases anywhere to be found he brings up a lot of good discussion points with his posts

On February 23 2012 04:03 Mattchew wrote:
Steveling - Didn't vote Dimmu day 1 which is a bit WIFOM but also logically not scummy. He posts a pretty big case on gum and then another on tkhawk. He likes my case a lot which has kind of blinded me to reading him for real. I would value someone else's opinion on him more than my own, however for me he reads town.

On February 23 2012 11:26 slOosh wrote:

ET was wrong about MG. Janaan was wrong about MG. Jaj22 was wrong about MG. DYH was wrong about MG.
Do you see why I have a problem with you leaning anything remotely town on him because he was unsure about MG??

On February 21 2012 00:41 Mattchew wrote:
Of these five, 2 or 3 should be the remaining scum team (+/- rg) This is who vig should shoot into in this order
Alderan
TKHawkins
trackd00r
Janaan
zelblade

On February 21 2012 11:03 Mattchew wrote:
also theres the chance of a miller gum

On February 23 2012 04:03 Mattchew wrote:
Sloosh - he tunneled DYH based on meta and his own case. He blindly stuck by this and I realize that I could have his latest posts have proven him a valuable asset to town. He also could die tonight. Remember to read nothing into it other than it confirms him as town and having the right intentions with his posts.

On February 24 2012 08:23 slOosh wrote:
As perhaps seen by my pressuring Steveling after the night 2 post, I have suspected the possibility of Mattchew as scum.
The possibility revolved around a Mattchew/Steveling/Alderan / ??? combo, so I wanted to see his response to me voting Steveling.

On February 24 2012 09:41 Alderan wrote:
This Mattchew bandwagon is cute and all, but quite frankly ET and Sloosh haven't you done enough OMGUS tunnel tunnel town lynches?DYH is the most obvious example, but you both had made cases against MG (which in my mind is why Janaan shot him).

On February 24 2012 13:46 Mattchew wrote:
Sloosh you make me look open to others opinions with your tunnel vision... I also answered your actually terrible case but hey you can ignore that... Ignorance is bliss right?

On February 25 2012 00:44 gumshoe wrote:
Also what do we lose if we mislynch matt? A really active and useful albeit amateurish townie.

On February 25 2012 04:04 Mattchew wrote:
basically what im saying in my last post.. is townies, look how much you've thought about this upcoming lynch and have tried to not rush to a decision... does Sloosh's gut read steveling and knee-jerk me vote and ET's no case and kneejerk votes send this same vibe to you... no. They are willing to lynch any townie and just take the win for the scum team

On February 25 2012 05:41 gumshoe wrote:
Matt if you are really town please back me up, ech sloosh, I would like to have you guys around when the pressure isnt so high so that you can properly defend yourselves, even if you are scum you deserve that at least, please help me out here, hawk is our best choice purely because if he's town theres nothing we can do to win this game anyways and if hes scum theres no guarantee hell just die.

Furthermore I do not want to rely on some bullshit host buff, we maybe noobs but we can win this game fairly or we can lose fairly.

On February 23 2012 13:47 slOosh wrote:
@gumshoe:


Read over your case, and I don't like it. You are going in with the assumption that he is mafia and interpreting everything according to that.

Hawk wasn't the reason that DimmuKlok was lynched. We all wanted to avoid a no-lynch. Sure he fumbled with the votes, but its a newbie game. He came from scII land and he genuinely might not know how to vote, seeing as its his first time.

Your perceived hostility of him is actually his response to Mattchew's antagonistic style. I know how mad I can get when people treat my posts condescendingly and calls them "retarded". Now, this is my second game playing, and I understand that there is an element of role playing. I can see him genuinely hurt from Matt's verbal assault - he doesn't have that tought exterior we develop playing mafia.

His FOS on Janaan was wrong, but that doesn't make him scum. The reasoning he provides for suspecting Janaan is understandable. He is clear. You might not like his logic but it isn't contradictory.

On February 25 2012 05:59 gumshoe wrote:


Sigh, no sloosh, your wrong if we vote tk who we know is scum we can survive,

after tonight well be 5 3 for town if we lynch hawk and hes scum(which he is). If we no lynch well be 5, 4 or 5 3 hopefully if hawk is scum and gets modkilled, once again I must say if hes town it dosent matter because weve already lost, and once again I must say that hawk is scum because as you said the host is not going to let us squirm if we have no chance of winning. As long as we dont lynch anyone who isnt hawk, there is no risk of losing this game until tomorrow.

On February 14 2012 00:37 GMarshal wrote:
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Night 3. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list.

On February 25 2012 06:01 Alderan wrote:



I don't need to post a dissertation on TK to know he has scum. He basically came out and said it when he "quit" the game.

And then there's the only blatant scumslip I've seen in the entire game:



Someone's already said why this is relevant, I shouldn't have to spell it out for you.

On February 25 2012 06:10 gumshoe wrote:


GMarshal i hate you so much right now, so very very much.

what marshal just suggested means theres a chance that hawk is town and is going to get a replacement before the deadline which means there is hope of winning even if he is town.

Which means there is no sure thing in this game anymore.

Which means that were back to square one and I have to pick a side in this ridicules sloosh vs matt fight because my hawk accusation isn't even 100 percent rational.

Btw marshal is this in response to me trying to wifome you?

On February 25 2012 06:17 Alderan wrote:


I'm not sure if you were literally asking for when he quit, but here it is. The reason I understand the mentality is because I've been there, I quit under very similar circumstances when I was scum and got modkilled. He felt like the bus was on him and there was no taking it off, because he's not town there was literally no reason for him to stay in the game in any capacity.

On February 25 2012 06:22 Alderan wrote:


I made it reasonably clear. It's not a hard concept. But because you are his scum mate this case is not for you, its for others.

On February 22 2012 03:22 Alderan wrote:
       TKHawkins- For reasons pretty well articulated by some, and his lack of addressing these issues.

So my vote will be on TKHawkins as he is the best chance of getting lynched today.
##vote: TKHawkins

On February 24 2012 03:44 Alderan wrote:
Now for TKHawkins actions since the night post...

Oh yeah, he already "quit".

On February 23 2012 13:47 slOosh wrote:
Your perceived hostility of him is actually his response to Mattchew's antagonistic style. I know how mad I can get when people treat my posts condescendingly and calls them "retarded". Now, this is my second game playing, and I understand that there is an element of role playing. I can see him genuinely hurt from Matt's verbal assault - he doesn't have that tought exterior we develop playing mafia.

On February 25 2012 06:22 NightFury wrote:
Hello!

First game and complete novice, but I will try my best. Going to be doing quite a bit of reading now.

On February 25 2012 14:46 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh, after I pointed out how hypocritical your case against me was, did it even give you pause? At what point did you start thinking I might be town?

On February 26 2012 14:25 Probulous wrote:


Sloosh my man. I feel for ya because you obviously put a lot into this game and it hurts to lose in this way.

If you want my advice, when you post a case, decide what your target needs to do to prove his innocence. You are like me in that when you think you have found mafia you won't listen to others. My way of getting around this is to put myself in his shoes and see whether what he is saying could be explained from a town point of view.

If you happen to be wrong, such as with DYH. You really should take stock and gather as much evidence as you can. There should have been no doubt about Matt's alignment because he was the only one defending DYH. In addition you thought ET was scum to start with and then when Matt puts together a decent case on him you jump on Matt? Your first case on Matt was that he was providing content which was absurd. If his actions can be explained from both a town and mafia perspective, he is null. Not mafia, null.

It's hard to change reads. I still think my change of heart with Cats was my greatest read. You need to try and find the town that others don't believe is town. That allows you to look at who is pushing easy cases. I must admit that was why I thought ET was mafia. Pushing Gumshoe for his poll made no sense in my mind.

Hope that helps.