EPT....I wonder if Mafia is trying to get me to push a mislynch onto MG.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII - Page 4
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
....I wonder if Mafia is trying to get me to push a mislynch onto MG. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
I don't want to WIFOM myself out of a potential scum lynch, but shooting jaj, the guy who started the case on Midnight, and leaving me alive, the guy who wants to push MG, seems like really sloppy Mafia play to me. basically, if MG is scum, shooting jaj incriminates him more. Can you address my previous case on MG, and tell me whether or not you think it is valid? You previously stated that you do not think MG is scum. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
Mattchew, you sound A LOT like you did in Werewolves, and not at all like you sounded in TL Mafia L. Have you simply shifted your style, or are you scum? | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 11:32 DoYouHas wrote: My town reads are: trackd00r, ET, gumshoe, slOosh, and blae000. This leaves a pool of 8 people in which I think all mafia are present. That is where I am looking now, and that is who I am building cases on. ....seriously? you know better than this DYH. The cases that you put forth better be damn good. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 11:28 TKHawkins wrote: That's the definition of WIFOM logic. Best not to over think it. As for your suspicions against me because I was against the Midnight vote. I couldn't get a good read on Midnight, and neither can a lot of people. The only people who did have a read on him were reading him as scum. That fact alone is odd and suspicious. I'm not sure Midnight is town, I'm just more comfortable following my own reads then blindly following somebody else's. Alright then, do you have any read at present? Are you still on either me or Janaan? | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 12:06 Mattchew wrote: I can't comment on ongoing games i dont think so its kinda unfair to bring that up. I do have a response to this. I am playing different then mafia L because this crowd is much less intimidating and much smaller. Hmm... I don't know, in L you were more vocal, and your Mason-Mayor plan was pretty flashy. In this game, with less intimidating/less people, it would be a lot easier for you to speak your mind clearly, without being all lurky and posting in a short way. Are we allowed to discuss Mattchew's previous, on-going game, Werewolves II, since he has already died in that game, or is this against the rules? | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 12:08 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm really not sure where to go from here. I have a solid read on Alderan as mafia, but if no one's even going to consider what I've been saying, then I'm going to stop wasting your time. Hopefully, my mislynch will be enough to convince you that you've been going about this the wrong way all along. .....man I hope to god I'm not WIFOM-ing myself out of going after you. DYH's attack on you makes me like him less. Blae was going to be on my scum list, but since he was getting replaced I figured I'd let his new guy post more. I'll look into Alderan, I don't know how I missed him. Probably because he was lurking. By the end of the first 24 hour period (we have roughly 21 hours until then), everyone should post who they want to vote. Anyone who doesn't is hurting town, putting it into the same position as we were in D1. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 11:59 EchelonTee wrote: Alright then, do you have any read at present? Are you still on either me or Janaan? I asked you this last page. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
oh my bad, I'm stupid. carry on. On February 20 2012 12:33 gumshoe wrote: That said If both Sloosh and DYH are town and we lynch DYH and then lynch Sloosh because DYH came up green, we are that much closer too losing. If DYH flips town, it does not mean that slOosh should be condemned, it just means that he was wrong, which happens. on Alderan! On February 19 2012 11:25 Alderan wrote: Damn. I stand by my play though, I think the reads were pretty clearly scum. Reminder: When you are being accused, STAY ACTIVE, the more you give us the more we can find out about you. If you are town and you stay active generally this will be identified. I think everyone needs to focus on the hour running up to the vote. There was a lot of action and activity that probably didn't get %100 attention. I'm to check out the voting records, specifically the correlation between who came off of MG and ET and on what basis. Alderan stated that "when you are being accused, stay active", yet when he is accused by MG, he still has not stated anything. He's probably just away from thread, but he needs to address MG's case ASAP. His filter is not looking good at all. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
DimmuKlok (2): Janaan, Gumshoe Then, DimmuKlok (2): Gumshoe, Alderan Finally, Dimmuklok (9): Alderan, Janaan, trackd00r, MG, zelblade, jaj22, sloosh, TKHawkins, ET Janaan and Gumshoe's votes were pressure based. IMO, scum often are more often the pushers of bandwagons, rather than the instigators. In this case, that's Alderan IMO; he puts his case out there, waits until other people start the voting, then climb on board to push the lynch forward. I've done this a few times in the past, as scum. Also, people who try to tip the end of the voting line to guarantee a lynch are under suspicion. That would be me and TKHawkins. If you think I'm suspicious for doing so I wouldn't blame you, but I had previously indicated suspicion on Dimmuklok, so my vote switch wasn't motivated solely due to, while TKHawkins had never revealed any qualms with Dimmuklok. His vote sealed the death; this isn't a massively incriminating factor, but it is something that should be noted. There is assuredly some scum in who voted for DimmuKlok. I would be more willing to lynch Alderan or THawkins, than DYH, until DYH posts reads/responses to the current thread situation. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 13:33 slOosh wrote: P.S. Get off Alderan's case. He said he is working and will be busier during the weekends. Let him respond. I will wait for Alderan to respond; you should let DYH respond as well, at least until the psuedo deadline at 16 PST tomorrow. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 13:11 gumshoe wrote: Sloosh, please consider if DYH is town, well mislynch again, than probally lose someone like Track, and the mafia will probably lynch you tomorrow for causing DYH's death, I repeat, unless sloosh starts doing scummy shit, I will not allow mafia to mislynch on the basis of a wrong read. If DYH flips green, it DOES NOT mean that sloosh is scum, and I will not let people argue as such. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 14:00 slOosh wrote: I have let him respond twice 1 and 2 He does nothing to redeem himself in his defense. Here are my posts on his defense 1 and 2 respectively. I gave him ample time and opportunity to defend himself and he has failed. There is no reason to continuously give him chances. I end it on this note- ...how is it that you weren't shot last night? ##Vote: DoYouHas | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 20 2012 15:01 GMarshal wrote: rgTheSchworz replaces Blae000 running low on replacements :o TheSchworz has some games on him, should be able to make a read. sleeping. remember gaiz, pls post your vote before 16 PST, Monday, a day early. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
I already put out some words regarding the Dimmuklok mislynch, take a look. That's why I want to look into Alderan and TK after. of course I also have other people in mind, but there is no need to post distractions from said topics, unless I fear impending death. From phone. in school for another 7ish hours | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
What is a case based off of confirmation bias? Alderan, zelblade was still voting for me at some point, you're picking at technicalities if you're saying zel did not vote swap from me; your point in that section was that Mafia would have been less likely to be voting me if i'm scum, so you lightly discredited him based off misrepresented information. You also fail to acknowledge your role in the Dimmuklok lynch, while I directly pointed out my own role. I find that weird. Also weird is that you state "I'll only argue someone I think is town if they getting lynched", when MG was directly adding about DYH, who our being lynched. Obviously you posted your opinion later, but your response is largely "I think sloosh is wrong", not "I think DYH is town". Don't like your posting one bit. Still from phone, still at school. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
MG has a point, but only slightly. Not mentioning someone is not absolutely tell, but it is DEFINITELY a factor. In my previous, newbie-style games as scum, I barely talked to my teammates in game unless I was busing them, or lightly agreeing with them. Of those 4, I'd bet my left foot that there are more than one scum in there, but not necessarily all 4. Alderan, I'd like it if you refocus'd on the case at hand. Arguing sloosh's case on DYH is fine and all, but you're borderline using chainsaw defense (attack someone's attacker to defend someone) here. If you don't want to talk about how DYH is town to you, then talk about who you think is scum, especially from Mattchew's recent post. If it's sloosh then have at it. I agree that the case on DYH is too slippery. The way I see it, all of the pro-town players agreed with sloosh, while the scum rode the happy fun coattails of sloosh's work. I do not think that ruling out DYH is a good idea in the slightest (could be getting bused), but I'm going to post a larger case on TKHawkins in a sec. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM TODAY NO ONE ELSE. Why? If you do a side by side comparison of DYH's posts in each game, there's a really big gulf. I really don't know how DYH could have even brought himself to bring up a "meta" arguement against slOosh, because the meta against him is way, way more damning. Look at the first 5ish posts from each game: From last game: + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2012 15:24 DoYouHas wrote: There is no reason our first lynch should be random. We need to use the threat of lynching to put pressure on lurkers and suspicious people. This needs to start today. If we seriously consider a no lynch today all we do is encourage passive play. We should be creating opportunities to gain information and put pressure. The worst thing we can give the mafia is time. On January 26 2012 03:20 DoYouHas wrote: From the general tone of the posting so far I agree that today we are more likely to get mafia by lynching someone suspicious rather than a lurker. If people come up with better ways of getting lurkers active I am all ears. As for things I have looked at so far, I am not going to reiterate points made on MidnightGladius and zelblade but here are a couple of people on the lurker list whose first posts were very similar and I did not like. What bothers me in the first post is the second half. He is making the statement "That seems scummy." but unnecessarily longer and strangely worded. In his second post he tones down the strange wording a bit but more troubling is his espousing of a wait and see style. We need to be making discussion happen, not just letting it happen. This caught my attention after I had been looking at balt11t. It is almost the exact same post. Lengthy substitute for scummy, wait and see attitude (though even worse this time), and pointing to Fakepromise's questionable agreement with a random lynch. On January 26 2012 08:01 DoYouHas wrote: I believe zelblade is our best lynch option. Just look at what he did when thrust into the spotlight. He has been apologizing and clarifying posts (which were already pretty clear) ever since spl0osh criticized his second post. Instead of using the spotlight to voice his own suspicions or convince us of his innocence, he has tried to move out of the spotlight as quickly and quietly as possible, while avoiding offending anyone. While his initial posts weren't particularly scummy, his responses have been nothing but suspicious. ## Vote: zelblade On January 27 2012 06:17 DoYouHas wrote: I am willing to set aside my suspicion of zelblade for today in order to make my vote more relevant. As for the CosmosXAM vs FakePromise lynching, I find myself at a loss. Let me explain. CosmosXAM seems more scummy to me than FakePromise for a few reasons. Not only is this a weak first post that focuses on a settled issue, his second sentence says that even if we find scummy things in his posts, it is our fault for pressuring him into it. He shortly follows this with 3 questionable statements in his second post. First, he goes after FakePromise. This is reasonable, possibly bandwagoning, and easy. I expect someone who has been lurking for a full day could find something suspicious to mention that hasn't been repeated so often. Second, he overreacts to Chocolate's placing a vote on him and lashes back purely based on that. Third, he points us to this being his first game and how rarely he will be able to post. So not only should we not expect many posts from him, but when they come we shouldn't expect them to have quality. I don't really take issue with his third post and 4-5 have no content so I'll move to FakePromise. I don't have anything new to say on the things FakePromise has done wrong. I simply agree that his actions make for a very poor defense and he definitely is not pro-town so far. I do not agree with zarepath's defense of FakePromise. To me, it is equally likely for the explanations of 'no mafia would behave in the way FakePromise has / no mafia team would allow FakePromise to behave in the way he has' and 'FakePromise has played this first round very poorly' to be true. It is not out of the question. Especially since most of us are new players. In spite of CosmosXAM being the scummier candidate, I believe we gain more information for day 2 if we lynch FakePromise. Not only can we start to look at people who seem to have jumped on the bandwagon but we would also gain some insight into zarepath's motivations. I am torn between the scummier candidate and having more information. At the moment I am leaning towards CosmosXAM. In my real life mafia experience bumbling defenses like FakePromise's tend to be town who don't know how to act under pressure. I'm trusting that experience for now. On January 27 2012 10:10 DoYouHas wrote: Be very careful with that assumption. From the perspective of zarepath being scum I think there are only 3 possible likelihoods. 1. We lynch FakePromise, he flips town, and zarepath looks good for defending him. 2. We lynch CosmosXAM, he flips scum, and zarepath looks good for being the first real accuser. 3. We lynch CosmosXAM, he flips town, and zarepath looks the same. I left out the possibility of FakePromise flipping scum because zarepath's own actions make it very unlikely. Just look at the statements laced through his posts. If anything zarepath has been trying to get us to focus on who supported and attacked whoever is lynched. This makes it seem very unlikely to me that he would adamantly defend someone he knows is mafia when that person holds little to no sway over the town and is still likely to be lynched. It is far more likely that he has set himself up to defend an innocent or bus a fellow scum. He gains favor in the town regardless of the way the lynch goes. So, to counter your point, if zarepath flips red I think it is far more likely that FakePromise is town and it will cast even more suspicion on CosmosXAM. From this game: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:51 DoYouHas wrote: The point is not to lynch lurkers, it is to lynch scum. If a lynching a lurker is the best option we have near a deadline, then by all means, let's do it. But policy lynching is just a terrible idea. I am already looking suspiciously at the ET for espousing it. FOS: EchelonTee On February 17 2012 13:31 DoYouHas wrote: ET, instead of jumping on every little inconsistency you find in order to go blow for blow with sl0osh, why not just make a note of it and present a more complete case later. Bickering can be useful, but I fear this is going to turn into Toast vs prplz. sl0osh, I dislike your attack on ET. Pointing out that both town and mafia can have motivation for the same action just looks to me like he is covering his bases so he can't be accused of not considering all the options later. And his calling you out was perfectly founded. You were an active poster in NMM3 who looked towards putting quality in the thread. If you suddenly went lurker on us it wouldn't be a stretch to think that you were organizing the mafia in their qt. On February 17 2012 13:56 DoYouHas wrote: I want MannerKiss to chime in. Let those opinions fly! Who looks scummy to you and why? On February 17 2012 14:05 DoYouHas wrote: Then allow me to do it again. Has nothing caught your eye so far? Nothing from gumshoe or ET or sl0osh or any of the other ppl? On February 18 2012 04:19 DoYouHas wrote: I think it is about time we start talking about who to lynch today. With the scheduling problems mentioned by a few people, I don't think we can wait too much longer. My current list of people I'm consdering voting for is sl0osh and MannerKiss sl0osh, he overreacted badly to a perfectly fine way of calling him out. Everything in his exchange was just an extended version of OMGUS (attacking the person who attacked you only because he attacked you). I think it is too easy to dismiss sl0osh's failure to see the reason behind ET's actions as his standard confirmation bias. Not acknowledging that ET's initial reference to him was purely to get him talking, not to frame him as mafia. I also thought that whole post about ET's tone was just a big pot of confirmation bias. MannerKiss, his fairly immediate response to me calling him out told me he was paying attention to the thread IE, actively lurking. The two explanations for which would be a new townie unsure of what to post, or a new scum unsure of what to post. The one-liner back at me and his lack of a response to me trying to call him out a second time make me feel it is more likely the latter. Notice anything different? In his last game as Townie-Detective, he posts MASSIVE amounts of content, reads on MULTIPLE people (scum reads, not town reads), and tries to keep town atmosphere productive. Just look at those blocks of text. In this game, he isn't even CLOSE to this amount of content. He starts with the same "don't lynch lurker" sentiment, sure, but this only shows that he knows what is the correct thing to say. In my first game as scum, it was very easy for me to say "policy lynching is bad, people who say it's good are scum", as DYH did here. Instead of being analytical and open, all he does is try to draw out MannerKiss, and present a bad case on slOosh. Why do I think this is a bad case? He says that slOosh "overreacted", in an OMGUS manner; I do not think this at all. I prodded at slOosh, and he prodded back HARD. That screams confident, asshole townie to me, not scum at all. That DYH pushed a case on slOosh based off "meta" is laughable... what, that slOosh is willing to argue and defend himself = scum? Note that these posts end around page 10-11 for both games; at the same point in time, relatively DYH has a huge disparity in the amount of content compared to last game, and this is only in the early game. At this point all he has done is shadowed my opinions on everything, which I find hilarious; as he has already made slOosh his enemy, all I can guess is that he is trying to follow my reads in the hope that I will agree with him (aka MG=scum, TK=scum, Janaan=town). Even in the cases he make, he brings up pretty shallow things like MG's reaction to the ET vs. Sloosh debacle, or that TK=scum because he thinks Janaan is scum. Wat. DYH defense, and his cases just sound completely half-hearted and fake. This cannot be the same DYH from last game, or even the DYH from the NMMI obs qt. It's a scum DYH, I'm certain. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On February 21 2012 12:04 trackd00r wrote: I'm afraid that after lynching DYH, regardless of he flips green or red, we might be in the same situation that we were on day 1, with no clear cases or too many that could risk a no-lynch. There are a number of avenues we could pursue, as laid out by multiple people in this thread. Mattchew's scum-team-list is an obvious one, my scum reads last night also, also other people's reads on others, etc. We have a lot of options at this point, but we should not get derailed from the focus of today's lynch. Which is DYH. | ||
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