EPT(sorry joe, work/classes getting rough so i can't play =[)
Hammer Mini Mafia
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
(sorry joe, work/classes getting rough so i can't play =[) | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Hello! Sorry for not posting or voting today. I replaced in without thinking about my schedule and due to a heavy workload today + I had to dispense some lessons in social justice on reddit today, I was unable to fully make it through the thread. I am about half way through it and because I felt that voting/voicing my incomplete thoughts would only serve to be a negative thing to do, I refrained from both. I just got back from my night run and I have an early morning shift tomorrow (5AM-10AM) but I promise to definitely be done with reading tomorrow and contribute fully to the discussion. Sorry once again for the inconvenience. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
1) I realized that a lot of people spent way too much time on the concept of vote-trading when really there should have been a lot more looking or trying to start discussions about lynching and such. Palmar is pretty much townie in my eyes since he started off the game aggressive and then backed it up by actually following through with his baiting. In particular this post was beautiful: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505¤tpage=16#319 There were two ways to play the game circle trading (safe) and call trading (informative). I really didn't see the appeal of safe trading aside since, as Palmar said, we were giving away one of our avenues for information. Negative things happening is still information. 2) I don't understand why WBG was lynched, it seemed like the lynch was based around his meta more than anything else and that was stupid because there were more scummy people out there. On in particular, which no one really looked at was: Dirkzor: It starts off with a post that I thought was pretty useless, basically repeating sentinel's idea http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505¤tpage=11#208 and then he moves onto speculating about roles, another completely useless topic. WBG calls him out on it. His posts that follow afterwards call for others to scumhunt while he does nothing, only telling Palmar to get into the game. The play seemed very passive at this point so I wasn't that suspicious. It was when he called out prplhz that I started to wonder. Free trade or circle trading. Giving as few votes as possible seems to be best. That way least amount of town votes can potentielly end up at scum. Why would I, when I know my own allignment, give votes to a potential scum? I won't! This statement is weird and I find it scummy. The concept of giving away more or less votes doesn't establish and can't really be used to decide if someone is scummy or not. That's like using different people's preferences for the circle-jerk v the free trade idea as a measure of scumminess, with people who wanted a different plan from you being considered "scummy". Bad reasoning and this made it seem like he was grasping at something that wasn't there. The italic part is also written from a scum perspective. The whole process of saying how the roles affect scum seems to be from someone who is on the recieving end of the power roles. While everyone could think this, I don't think a town person would write it and certainly not in this way. This, once again, is bad logic. How can you tell if something is written from a scum perspective or not? Once again it seems like he's trying to suggest something that is not there at all. This is kind of similar to VE's post here: I'm going to be honest - I'm also starting to think Palmar is town, but it's not based on a belief that I think he's acting scummy to test reactions. It could be, but that's not why. I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing. which is also reaching for a connection that is not there. I would be ok with lynching either one of them. 3) Aside from them, layabout also does the "write a long post about nothing" and then later on when the vote trading topic had died down a bit, brings it up again while bringing nothing new to the discussion. 4) I think paperscapes and LSB give me tonie vibes. paperscapes posts have been informative while also have shown that he is trying to create a positive town environment. Especially here, a good post to keep people on topic and recenter the debate about vote trading: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505¤tpage=12#229 LSB, as well, put forth a good vote plan though I disagree with it (I like the free-trade idea better) | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On January 30 2012 12:57 LSB wrote: Do you know for certain if your vote didn't go through? It is possible that you gave a vote to Palmar and someone gave a vote to you. I was informed by mod that I didn't trade today and to not miss it tomorrow. I sent in my trade late because I waited till I had everything all written down and figured out before I did it. By then it was too late Sorry =/ | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
It's only been 24 hours... | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:10 Paperscraps wrote: This is exactly why I wanted to wait a bit before the lynch. As soon as someone gets majority of the votes they get hammered. Oh jeez..seriously? I haven't read anything posted today yet...jesus christ...I just got home from classes/work. WTF guys... | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Secondly, Townies in my head: Palmar - Stop being a dick, I've PMed the mods about it. There's aggressive play and then there's dickish play. You're doing the latter. Paperscape LSB Scums in my head: Dirkzor Layabout ??? Reading back on day one and taking into account VE's horrible day two claim, it's pretty obvious that VE was probably mafia. My notes on VE go: pounched at palmar's probably baiting posts…scummy? Will have to see weird un-vote of palmar. This post stands out to me as scummy, will have to see more. "I'm going to be honest - I'm also starting to think Palmar is town, but it's not based on a belief that I think he's acting scummy to test reactions. It could be, but that's not why. I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing." Weird votes/unvotes on palamr/paper. Votes but then doesn't ramp pressure, unvotes when pressured himself on votes. Possibly scummy.Ok to lynch him or layabout[see layabout] They were pretty easy to see just by pure filter, one doesn't even need to really read them in context. layabout's wavering on lynching VE and his lively defense on him makes me very suspicious of him. Extremely scummy. I am unsure of VE's alignment. He started supporting the plan and calling you scummyhere (clicky) . He then completely abandoned the plan and his accusations against you because "scum could gain a vote through circle trading" and therefore "circle trading" was bad and you were not scummy for opposing it, i felt that this was a weak reason, (though it turns out not supporting "circle jerking" is probably a much better stance). He then got involved in more discussion about plas and such, then presented a case against paperscraps. He points out several things paperscraps has done that are anti-town and votes for him. He claimed to have not realised how long we had left and apologises. He then unvotes paperscraps for a few reasons: 1) He doesn't think he will convince anyone 2) He thinks that Paperscraps suggesting a no-lynch would be a dumb thing for scum so he is more likely town than he had previously thought. 3) He wants to go back and read more filters.. Then he hammers WBG. He says he sent a vote to LSB. He claims to have been hit during the night. This part in particular from layabout's posts is a very very weak defense of VE. I wrote on Day 1 "3) Aside from them, layabout also does the "write a long post about nothing" and then later on when the vote trading topic had died down a bit, brings it up again while bringing nothing new to the discussion." and I wish I had written more but the trend so far for layabout has been a noncommital and slight derailment of conversation followed by his sketchy defense of VE. While I do admit that it IS possible he actually does feel this way, it is more likely that his latest posts are a last minute defense of a scummy VE and is, in my opinion, scum. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On February 01 2012 03:57 Palmar wrote: I disagree, I don't think I've been a dick at all. So I'm not going to change a thing. Doesn't matter what you think. I've pmed the mods about it, it's up to them now. Do whatever you want, it's good play. It's also dickish play and I won't stand for that. Also, I've relooked at LSB's posts and reconsidered but if it's a choice between layabout and LSB, I would choose layabout in a heartbeat. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
I don't think the latter if that's what you're saying | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
I have respect for players who I think are good but that doesn't mean if they don't agree with me or see things my way that they are immediately scummy. There have been many times that I have disagreed with other good townie players and is to be expected. In my opinion, Layabout on day 1 was less scummy than dirkzor or VE. It was only his posting on day two that pushed him into extremely scummy. So I can understand LSB's justification for giving him a vote. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
I agree that either Palmar or VE have to die. Or both due to No flip. I would vote VE now, but I don't want to hammer (my vote won't be the hammer i know) until everyone have had a chance to claim the hit on either one. If no one claims it could still be a scum nightvig. How likely do you find that mafia have a nightvig? If no one claims the hit I think the jailer should claim. Because if no one claims the hit or the jail we would have lynch both to be sure. in which he discredits his OWN reason for not voting VE: "but I don't want to hammer (my vote won't be the hammer i know)" and then adds in a weird suggestion about how the jailer should claim. He then continues to criticize VE with: lol! That changed your mind? What about the late claim to get hit? Which was equally late. Yet you have been vague up until this post of VE. Just minute before you had yet to make up your mind... when he himself has been equally noncommital: VE looks way more scummy then palmar. Why not claim directly after night post? Why wait? Palmar posted instantly and VE have had more then enough time to think it over. But I still hate being unsure. I'll mindfuck myself until the game ends =( | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
He then continues to criticize VE with: lol! That changed your mind? What about the late claim to get hit? Which was equally late. Yet you have been vague up until this post of VE. Just minute before you had yet to make up your mind... I meant layabout. I'm sorry. I want to expand on this point that this was said during the ending part of the day, and along with his posts on a VE lynch, seem like a distancing act to me. He wanted to distance himself from the rest of his team but was unsure if they could still be saved or not. So he kinda did both. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On February 01 2012 04:25 Dirkzor wrote: The reason I did not want to vote was to not give someone else the oppotunity to hammer. I wanted the day to last longer and posted about that later aswell. That post you quoted about me criticizing VE was a post to Lay not VE. I also can't see why I was non-committal. I said I found VE way mroe scummy then Palmar and would put my vote on him - but didnt due to hammer mechanic. You yourself stated only that you didn't want to hammer the vote even though your vote wouldn't have hammered. This added reason of "I did not want to vote because I didn't want SOMEONE ELSE to hammer" was not mentioned then and so I can not willingly believe this point since it has only just now been introduced. | ||
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