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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 08:57 Mr. Wiggles wrote: HoD claimed he has limited time, and then when syllo asked him a question, he instantly showed up. Ah, that makes sense. I'm not a Harbringer fan either then. Sounds like he was scum trying to find an excuse to lurk, then forgot that he was "gone" and came back to respond to someone. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
And if so I will gladly dismantle ever more of his arguments. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:01 Spaackle wrote: @BH I partially used my RoL vote to get him to come out in the open. I think he is a good lynch, and I did when I voted him, but risk was still better to me. You dodged my question. On January 13 2012 08:54 Blazinghand wrote: So when you moved off RoL, you thought he was still a decent lynch, but risk was better? when you moved off RoL, did you think he was a decent lynch, but risk was better? Answer. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:06 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You are terrible and when I finish reading your godforsaken filter I will explain why. Glad to hear it. If you're town, hopefully you'll make some sort of attempt at scumhunting, addressing various people's concerns about your posting and play this game, and contribute to the town in a meaningful fashion. In any case, I've waited like 10 days for you to post something real. I can wait a little longer. Also, be a good boy and post it before the day post in case one of us wakes up dead. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:10 Spaackle wrote: I'm pretty sure I did answer your question, BH. I said that yes, when I moved off RoL I thought risk was the better lynch. So when you moved off RoL, you though RoL was scum, but you were more sure about risk? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:11 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Sigh, its a shame I know you won't end up dead, since from what I read I can infer you are most likely an Angel. I will elaborate when I finish reading, but to be honest I doubt I will get it in before the day post since I have to head to the gym in a bit and there is no way I can read and give a proper analysis in that amount of time. I do promise that I will put something out within the next 12 hours and it will be worthwhile. You can all hold me to that. "hey guys don't worry i'm just gonna delay some more, but you know I haven't been lurking all game so it's cool" | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:14 syllogism wrote: Just like we could hold you to this? Day ends in 50 minutes Yeah finally people are beginning to see the truth. RoL has been hustlin us for like 10 days I have no idea why anyone at all believes anything he says | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:15 Spaackle wrote: @ BH: yes. On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote: So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though. Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke That's weird I thought he was pretty null to you | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:16 Grackaroni wrote: Whoa, what I gathered from your filter was that you were no longer sure that RoL was scum and had a null read on him when you removed your vote. YESSS see! I'm a fucking G All I do is fuck bitches get money and reveal Spaackles contraditictions all day oonts ootns oonts oonts | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 09:20 Spaackle wrote: Except that since then I've been pushing for his lynch. He looked a bit null to me at the moment, but I still suspected him as a scum. I just wanted to concentrate more on getting rid of risk at the moment. Oh man Spaackle from January 13 you sound like you thought he was scum I wonder who can argue with you??? let me ask spaackle from January 11 On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote: I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though. huh thats weird I wonder which spaackle is right | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Of course I knew RoL wouldn't live up to his promises | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 10:01 Zephirdd wrote: Am I the only one that thought it was weird that syllo said "I want to die tonight", as in "I don't want to be jailed so I can perform night actions" AS IN "I am the reason why there were no night kills by Angels during n1"? That's a hole in one very good plan. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Or rather, idea. Also did syllo get double purgatoried or what | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
##vote: reborthoflegend | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 10:11 syllogism wrote: Someone is exceptionally stupid Could someone please enlighten me about this? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
If I were RoL this is where I'd say "brb 3 hours" then come back on Tuesday  | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
However, your case is against me, so I will defend myself. I don't count out the scumhunting efforts of scum automatically in this game because there are two factions-- you could well believe your own case, and be a Demon trying to edge his team back into this game, etc. Without further ado, my point-by-point rebuttals: On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Part I: Day 1 Day 1 for BlazingHand can be characterized by a couple of issues that I think are worth noting, but barring his Day 2 activity wouldn't necessarily consider top candidate. Firstly, he focuses heavily on the set up. Then we look at his interaction with the Palmar. The third thing I am not too sure how to feel about is his overbearing activity. He is absolutely dominating the towns posts, his filter quite frankly is such a ridiculous amount to read it would scare off most people. I know I usually wouldn't bother reading WBG's filter in games because its usually like 8-10 pages within the first couple of days. By the end of day two his filter was 14 pages long, and accomplished an absolutely retarded amount of nothing except making this game insanely annoying to read. To be fair, the actual length of my filter (in terms of word count rather than, say, post count) isn't so bad. Most my posts are overwhelmingly short except for my analysis posts, which are few but long. My filter is susbtantially longer than average for this game, but not so much that it's some herculean feat to actually read it. I gladly encourage people to read and think for themselves rather than blindly accepting what RoL has to say (or even what *I* have to say, as a matter of principle) about any person's filter. By the end of day two, my filter didn't do nothing-- I successfully, erm, pushed an Erandorr lynch. Now, granted, Erandorr flipped town, but most people thought he was scum, and voted their thoughts. It wasn't like I was posting mindless drivel. On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: So that being said let's get to his set up analysis. Now generally speaking, it is considered a bit scummy to dwell on a set up and post a about it. In this case due to the extremely unusual nature of the game I might be able to forgive that. For point of reference, I will include the posts in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2012 15:57 Blazinghand wrote: Sup guys? I'm Blazinghand. :DDDDD A thought from me: Angels have like 1.5 KPs atm, and that drops to 1 (since the acolyte doesn't always get a kill)-- their power goes down with time. Demons have 0 kps but fight us for control of the lynch (among other things), their power goes up with time. The demon team isn't able to kill people, but it's got a lot of ways to manipulate elections-- and these only increase with power as the game goes on. I think the early game threat in terms of scum are angels, and the late game threat in terms of scum are demons, just because they could pretty easily control these elections. The demons seem to have it tougher, but things will get much easier for them as the day goes on. Also, due to the secret vote, vote count analysis isn't available, which makes me feel somewhat at a loss. I think we'll have to hold people accountable to what they say, since we can't hold them accountable to how they vote. Although we have a variety of interesting blue roles at our disposal, our chief focus has to be on scumhunting and succeeding via lynch early while we still have assured control of the vote. So, a question: we should/can totally claim corruption when we get corrupted? This exposes us to death via acolyte, but also lets us see who's corrupted and get an idea of how many votes we actually have doing something. This won't really be an issue for a couple days, though. Another question: is it sensible at all to "try" to get angels or demons first? I haven't played in a multifactional mafia game before, and am looking for some advice here-- or do we just scumhunt and lynch who we find? Another thought: the possibility for masked flips from the Angel of Death really scares me. I don't like the idea of someone dying and us not having any idea who it was. I don't really know what else to say on that subject but I thought I'd bring it up. We will, of course, be killing Angels exclusively via lynch-- our "vig" type role, the Demon Hunter, can only kill townies and angels. Don't forget to breadcrumb everything, blues. Also, let's try not to lurk, and promote healthy discussion like the sick nerd baller town we deserve to be. On January 04 2012 16:02 Blazinghand wrote: I'm guessing we'll just identify scum and kill them. Also, although angels have the KPs, it's possible to kill an angel while eliminating 0 kps or just eliminating their "semi" kp while conserving their masked KP. Demons are a much bigger threat long run with their lynch control. No. This is a terrible idea. If there are strategies for angels and demons that are obvious (like demons using corrupted votes to go after blues or masking an important death) it's so, SO important that you share it so we can figure out how to deal with it. If it can help, share it with the town. Honestly, they already have 3 people per team and already know whatever it is you're gonna share. The idea that we should try to avoid sharing information is exactly the kind of scummy idea that sinks towns. Don't be that guy. step 1) find scum step 2) lynch them step 0 is get everyone to talk so we can get reads. On January 04 2012 16:31 Blazinghand wrote: Yes this seems fairly obvious for a "jailer" type ability What do you think about information sharing? Are you still anti-sharing-ways-to-fight-strategies-and-stuff? Also-- the downside of claiming corruption is the "night actions order" The acolyte can just crap on you before you get cleansed. that's the risk. This is a complicated game, take some time to read the OP before commenting on this sort of thing On January 04 2012 16:57 Blazinghand wrote: This sounds super correct. Once the Angel of Death or Angelic Acolyte is dead, claiming corrupted won't result in instant death since even if the Angelic Acolyte is still alive, at that point it'll be easier to just Slay rather than try to pick up a KP via Stalk. On January 04 2012 16:58 Blazinghand wrote: Why are you quoting him and not me ._. i be all up in in this thread pointing these things out way earlier On January 04 2012 17:56 Blazinghand wrote: Nice dodge-- respond with questions, yes, that looks credible. Look, I haven't thought of anything. But if I did, I'd surely share it with the rest of the town, and I encourage others to do so. Why are you so adamant about supporting a crappy posting policy? If I think of something, I'll share it with people, as should everyone else. I think this is what creates a good town environment. The last post specifically, I have bolded an interesting point. He wants us to share plans, then shits all over me when I do it. Fine whatever, the set up posting was minor we can let that slide. The setup posting was minor? ._. there was nothing else to talk about. I don't know why you brought this up. If you don't feel this is an important part of your case, then I will not address it other than this: I wanted us to share plans, so I could promote a healthy town discussion and find scum. Someone shared plans-- and that person happened to be scum, and it became clear from his horrid, terrible plan (at least to me) that this was the case. This is not inconsistent with me wanting us to share plans. On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: The next part I want to focus on is his other player interactions. Generally he is hostile with most players, while on Day 1 it can be a good way to generate discussion I don't believe that was entirely what he was doing, some of it was straight up bullying which just makes it so townies are less likely to challenge you, and more likely to sheep with you to avoid confrontations. I will include some of the posts in a spoiler once again. + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2012 18:06 Blazinghand wrote: Ah yes you're right let's figure out how to fight scum without talking about how they think or what they might do, and if we have thoughts about this and need help let's not get help from each other about it. Hey look when I put words in your mouth it sounds bad too! The point i'm trying to make here is that a healthy discussion of what Angel and Demons might use as a strat and what we can do to counter it is very important, especially if you don't immediately know the counter strategy. On January 04 2012 18:09 Blazinghand wrote: IN FACT YOU EVEN RESPOND TO THAT POST RIGHT HERE: Why aren't you telling Refallen off? because you forgot for a moment about your poorly-thought-out rule and acted like a reasonable person. Try to do that more and think about your "well lets never discuss what scum actions might look like in this complicated setup" rule less. On January 05 2012 04:31 Blazinghand wrote: The #1 goal of a town player should be to establish their innocence. Look, regardless of whether "oh bluelightz isn't establishing his innocence" or whatever, just look at that filter. That is an unhelpful dude. I don't have a solid scumread atm, but we've got 3 lurkers and one guy who's posted like 6 one-liners and said nothing. This is fine because probably the lurkers are asleep-- but ideally we have a sweet day1 discussion and get some juices flowing. I will not stand for an inactive crappy town. I will NOT get used to players not establishing their innocence. I will hunt down and kill all the scum whether in doing so I earn YOUR approval or not. Is Mr. Wiggles playing? On January 05 2012 04:34 Blazinghand wrote: If anything, I'm burning bridges. The fact of the matter is, I'm not trying to get town cred by forcing a case off thin air, because doing so is how you lose town cred. My case is solid as hell. The guy was here for 3 hours and made 6 posts saying nothing. This is unacceptable and I will not stand for it. If people do not post day 1, or try to hide, or like make 1 post then dip up out of here, of course we will lynch them. However, it's possible some of the players who haven't posted are still asleep, and it seems Mr. Wiggles may not be playing at all. Solid case indeed chap, you base it off useless posts. Definitely no signs of weakness. On January 05 2012 04:36 Blazinghand wrote: Look if Bluelightz gets off his plane, realizes he's being a tool, and decides to seriously help out, I won't have as much of a case on him any more because he'll be being, well, helpful. It's that simple. It won't be hard for him if he's being town. step 1) be helpful step 2) blazinghand is no longer attacking you And this guy gets up my ass about being a dick to players. On January 05 2012 08:41 Blazinghand wrote: Not to be abrasive or anything, I just don't think there's any reason to pull your punches. Oh cool, because you said not to be abrasive, then its all fine. This is just to establish the needless aggression and discouraging players. I want to establish a difference. When he is doing it here, it is to discourage people from coming against him. When I was posting abrasively in defense of my plan it served the purpose of attempting to shut down contention fast and efficiently because it was a rush scenario. The difference is his is to shut down objections to himself by less aggressive players, while mine was a tactical decision to help my plan get going on an extremely constricted time basis. Now for how he acted about Palmar. He starts off subtle trying to justify the case, then gets full swing behind it before jumping to an easier lynch in Erandorr/Risk.nuke. I will explain what I mean in the spoiler. On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: 'He basically does an entire analysis using wiggles posts which makes him hold zero accountability. On top of this he uses it to justify a vote he has been easing himself into. If you read the filter there is some more posts about palmar, but I feel this adequately sums it up. He hesitates to engage Palmar, then does it vicariously through wiggles arguments. When Palmar flips he could look good for this if it wasn't a two faction game. This is the reasoning I use to determine he must be an Angel. The part that makes him scummy is his absolutely shameless tunneling of me for 5 straight days, then compromising on a different mislynch. Um, ok so I don't know if you actually read my posts, but I'm basically saying I think Mr. Wiggle's arguments are completely shitty and I make up my own to attack Palmar with. At that time of my post, I seriously entertained the idea that they were both scum from different factions. The idea that I'm at once "aggressive and abrasive" but also "afraid to stick my neck out" is dumb. Let me show you the key areas of my case against Palmar where I basically smack down Mr. Wiggles: " Blazinghand Wrote: Mr. Wiggles finds this more non-committal and hedging than I did. This is indeed one of many unhelpful posts by Palmar." " Blazinghand Wrote: So Mr. Wiggles notes the same thing I do about Palmar's weirdness with Bluelightz. He also thinks the follow-up is bad. From a "Wiggles-as-town" perspective, there's two possibilities here: 1) Palmar got an accurate read of town from BL's wishiwashiness, or 2) Palmar is scum trying to look town." Blazinghand Wrote: I think Wiggles, in his aggression, overlooked a more legitimate way to take this argument to Palmar. Why DID Palmar do all that dayvig stuff when he could have just kept on pressing? The world may never know. Clearly Palmar was unhelpful and repetitive leading up to Wiggles' accusation. I'd consider that a serious problem. I think Wiggles' case is shitty, but not because Palmar isn't scummy. Wiggles just made some huge mistakes in presenting his case. I have no reason whatosever to believe Wiggles is town based on the way he put together his case and the fact that he has failed to contribute in a meaningful fashion besides erecting a 5-lane tollbooth-assisted 2-way tunnel at Palmar. what, you think I wouldn't remember MY OWN CASE? I didn't steal it from wiggles, I MADE IT UP MYSELF and SHAT UNREMORSEFULLY ON WIGGLES. That's right guys, I wasn't noncomittal, as RoL claims: I STUCK MY NECK the fuckk out and attacked both players. I said A) Palmar is scum B) Wiggles is right for the wrong reasons and I constructed my own case. Read the actual goddamn post before listening to RoL's bullshit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=27#532 My case against Palmar speaks for itself. I will be continuing this, addressing RoL's second case post in my next post. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Day 2; criticisms "wahh why is blazinghand so mean? my plan is good you guys... why do you all have to be assholes" Whoa, RoL, no need to call us all assholes. That's totally uncalled-for. We're all friends here. In response to your statement proper: No, your plan is bad. Were you town, I'd think you might literally be the only guy besides risk.nuke in this game who thought that plan was even a remotely good idea. On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: So moving forward, he not only continues to bring up my plan and how antitown it is and illogically dismissing my arguments which just causes chaos as me and him argue over the same points again and again until my plan is effectively dead. He shuts it down successfully because I don't have the time to argue all day, yet goes a step further and tries to implicate me as scum for it claiming it does things I established it doesn't do. This is the post I am referring to here. You can read the whole exchange after this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=55#1081 I believe I get back on page 56 and begin arguing with him, but by that point time is against me and he effectively shut down my plan. Um... what? Let me read that back to you guys again in case you didn't spot the misleading sentence by RoL: RoL: I believe I get back on page 56 and begin arguing with him, but by that point time is against me and he effectively shut down my plan. Time is against you on Page 56? Oh I guess the end of N1 was coming up huh. Maybe my arguing against you during that crucial time prevented you from pusing your plan, eh? Wait, no.. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=49#966 Oh waht's this? Day 2 started 7 pages earlier? Weird, I thought that I shut down your plan? Huh. Weird indeed. On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On day two, I am not attempting to defend my plan for the sake of implementation but more because he's using at as a basis to call me scum, which is flawed in so many ways. The biggest thing though is his constant misrepresentation of things that I said and ignoring shit. 1. I explained this, I was finishing up responsibility in a lylo scenario where we won as town. 2. I explained my logic. If you have a problem with it then attack the logic, don't blanket misrepresent my post. 3. My plan isn't bad. When we are discussing the merits and everything don't blanket call me scum for your inability to read. It's just more examples of complete misrepresentation of the facts. On January 10 2012 08:05 Blazinghand wrote: Like, a summary of the things RoL has done this game: 1) lurk for most of d1 2) try to jump on the erandorr wagon and fail 3) push his bad plan Um... that's literally waht you've done this game. And you can SAY your plan was good all you want, it's still bad ._. I think this is just like so telling of RoL in general. He claims time was against him in the middle of day 2? He still had like several IRL days before the end of night 2 (before any masked flips happened) and he didn't try to get his plan pushed through for the rest of day 2 or any of night 2. He had tons of time. ??? I think RoL is just like misleading us here. I'm not even 100% sure this is a scum move, as his argument is so bad it's beyond meta-- it's just a terrible worthless meaningless QQ argument. "Oh Blazinghand shut down my plan and I ran out of time during the 4 day day/night cycle". On January 13 2012 14:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Further misrepresentation. I was gone for like 8 hours between my plans initial posting, me sleeping, posting a bit from work, then getting home and defending it more. I have shit to do and he continues professing bullshit. The thing is, when you have 20% of all the god damn posts people might begin to believe you after a while. He keeps up dominating posting and shutting down contention without explaining himself. The big thing here is he doesn't look for ANYONE except me. LayAbout points it out and he continues aggressively dismissing players. Yet at the end of the day what happens? He is so sure I am scum but because I know how to defend myself without spamming 14 pages into a game he won't get a lynch on me, then just jumps over to risk.nuke to kill another townie. It just doesn't make sense as a townie. You think I am scum 100%, so completely certain yet you abandon your guns after tunneling me for 5 straight actual days in place of an easy mislynch? I don't get it, no one does. Sure you thought he was mildly suspicious but you can't very well say "Sure I think hes town, but I can't get you all to kill RoL so I'm switching over" The fact is your actions don't line up with your words and you spam the shit out of the game to get your way. I conclude that after all this crap you must be an Angel. I have shit to do and am getting yelled at, when I get up tomorrow we can throw down more, I needed to cut this case short. I also have a few more things I need to write tomorrow but we can get to that later. Anyway, ##Vote BlazingHand This is a bunch of BS. There is actually a legitimate criticism in here, though, a kernel of meaningful opposition in a veritable mound of turd. Why did I vote to lynch risk.nuke? Well, I also thought risk.nuke was scum. I wasn't 100% on him like I basically am on RoL. Why did I vote for risk.nuke? What could he possibly say or do that would make me actually more sure of him than RoL? What weird, unanswered questions. I wonder if RoL would PULL UP MY VOTE POST AND SHOW THE EVIDENCE??? No, he wants only to mislead, to misinform. On January 11 2012 15:37 Blazinghand wrote: ._. no townie would ever say this. Welcome to the top of my list, punk. ##Vote: risk.nuke http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603¤tpage=64#1270 The fact of the matter is, risk.nuke made a post that no townie under any circumstances would make. That is simply not a post you make. The job of a townie is to not get lynched first and foremost-- and him doing this indicated to me that he was claiming scum. So I lynched him. And I stand by that decision. | ||
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