Responsibility Mafia!

Responsibility Mafia! - Page 4

Palmar

Iceland22633 Posts

January 08 2012 11:26 GMT

#1275

I don't like the vigilantes that just punish bad town play.

for example in chaoser's role, getting caught in a lie (as the role was in pyp:i) is terrible as both town and scum. However strawman arguing is only bad town play, it's actually good mafia play (I did figure out syllo and L on day 1), as we sidetracked the discussion quite seriously.

I'm going to write a longer post, thanks ver for hosting. Most things this game I liked a lot.

Palmar

Iceland22633 Posts

January 09 2012 09:36 GMT

#1299

My own experience:

I think playing the traitor in this setup is basically impossible. My plan was to argue about useless stuff and try to derail town, while making myself known to the mafia. Both L and Syllogism were very obvious scum on day 1, calling syllogism town repeatedly was actually my way of trying to communicate to the mafia team that I was the traitor. I later heard they still thought about shooting me night one, I guess for the strawman argument against L.

But seriously, as traitor I HAVE to play scummy, because otherwise the mafia will kill me (they almost did), and yet I have to dodge the lynch, at least until day 2-3. I was going to claim cop this game (I was going to claim an innocent check on L), which would have given the mafia a perfect opportunity to get me into their team, as they knew there were no cops (I did not know this, just calling a scum town with a cop check should be good enough to tell them I'm traitor). However, with a ton of vigilantes in the game, one of them is bound to just shoot someone who is forced to play scummy, which is what happened.

I seriously think the change to chaoser's role is really bad addition to the original Ace role. The thing about misrepresenting is just complete and utter bullshit, because it's punishing good scum play. I successfully created a shit side-track discussion and got punished for it.

About the setup:

Town has waaaayyyy too much KP. For those that don't get this, a vigilante shot is the best kill town has, assuming it's held by a competent player. In a normal 20 player game, that has maybe... one vigilante, town controls 2kp (lynch and shot), and mafia controls 2kp per cycle. In the end, the vigilante usually will have claimed (and gotten blocked) or died, and mafia probably ends up with more than half the kills in the game on their behalf

In this game, Town killed like 10 players or something? That's simply way too high. I only managed to figure out two mafia on day one (I almost sent in a list with syllo, L, foolishness and prplhz), but it's still enough so a bunch of gung-ho vigilantes should've chosen their shots better. L was painfully obvious as scum.

I mean, in a game that punishes bad play, it's weird town can get away with so many bad vigilante shots and still win the game. Vigilantes are stupidly powerful roles, and mafia can only counterclaim hits so long. I am a big fan of vigilantes because they put responsibility into the hands of town, but not to the point where they help town immensely.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the game and I would certainly play again. however, I would just get rid of all the damn triggers, all they do is infuriate people, and most of them are very dependent on how people play. I would argue that normal setups punish bad play much more than this one, and certainly incognito's setup in XLVIII did much more to punish bad play than this setup.

The only reason mafia came even close to winning was because town shots were really, really bad for the most part. Credit should go where it's due. Chaoser did a good job, prplhz, foolishness and meapak too.

I don't like it when people forget there are two teams in mafia, one of those teams is mafia, and this game really fucked mafia over. With triggers that stopped mafia from playing well (sidetracking town, destroying discussion, spamming, and in general being dicks), and a bunch of vigilantes mafia would've had to start counterclaiming from day 2, it pushed mafia into a corner.

I love the concept of creating a game specifically designed to counter bad play, I just don't think this was quite it. Some parts were cool (vigilantes, despite being op, are such a great role).

Mafia fucked up, and if you read this and think "man Palmar thinks mafia didn't stand a chance", then you're misunderstanding me. I'm pointing out a slight flaw in an otherwise good game, mafia just had less chance to win than usual.

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