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On December 18 2011 13:35 evantrees wrote:
Nice job VisceraEyes and hmm one sub killed the other.
Debated not posting this due to the complaints but eh whatever.
Why no vote for the election Comprissent, Zeks , and MarserBlood?
and Cascades you messed up the format.
Also no lynch vote from MarserBlood and risk.nuke.
Are you even trying ? clearly both Comprissent and I voted
And you call Cascades out for format? Seriously?
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Does anyone remember who made the first good case against evantrees? Im having a bit of trouble fining it.
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Vatican City State258 Posts
Wooooow VE, good job!
And no sudden voteswitch ;-) guys you make me so proud :D
The rest of the scumteam shouldnt be hard to find hohohoho
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Ok, i've been thinking. VE left us in a pretty kickass position, and not just because he got Bumatlarge. Bumatlarge was only under the slightest of pressures at that time, nothing like what other players were experiencing. This means that he was not posting to avoid death or shift blame. Unlike the case of curu where he basically just shut up, Bum continued to keep posting his "reads." Also we now know that VE is town, and his analysis can be treated as genuine. Here is what I have found after doing some research.
Bum and VE BOTH suspected evantrees. Both of their posts occured at around the same time, just 2 minutes appart, with Bum's occuring first. However, we can see that while VE's is in depth and detailed, Bum has a very skeleton analysis. I will touch on what this means in a second.
Next, when Bum began to garner suspicion, he said that he had "already found scum" and that it was a 100% guarnentee that evantrees would flip red.
Finally, VE has proven his scumhunting abilities this game to me by targeting Bum off of just 1 filter page to work with.
Now what does this mean when we put it together?
To me it paints a rather dismal picture for evantrees. the skeleton analysis of Bum on Evan resulted at a time where he (evan) was already under some scrutiny. The timing and the actual content of the analysis lead me to believe that this was a minor bus, with Bum hoping to post a fairly bad case so evan won't get lynched, but if a wagon starts he can be on it early. My next point was that Bum started to get some moderate pressure put on him, so he said that evan was 100% scum. Remember, we now know that Bum was mafia. Why risk saying someone was 100% scum if you both already know the aliengments of everyone, and you know they are a fairly big target? the only way that makes sense to me is if he was trying to divert attention from himself by directing attention to evantrees.
Because of these events I am fairly certain evan is scum. what do the rest of you think?
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It's a lot of WIFOM supported by already solid evidence. AKA, it boosts the case against evantrees, but only marginally. I'm going to reread the thread in complete tonight and tell you guys what I think.
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Also, the reason why I didn't really add anything new when I said I was going to read over those filters was because I found nothing new :/
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Thank god he flipped scum, I was legitimately a bit worried that I might be about to go 3 for 3 on having ridiculous town martyr plays in my games. Also nice to see that no backup candidates were needed for neither the lynch nor the elections.
Well done VE, this being my first game with you, I am not entirely sure what issue Palmar has with you, but that was a ballsy move that payed off wonderfully. gg sir!
@greymist
I did some searching, the first person to call him out at all was jitsu, here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720¤tpage=19#373
A few people, including professorbadass, call him out for using an RNG on the pardoner vote.
Then the next real mention was radfield saying this:
Looking at evantrees filter I would be ok lynching him. Same with Spaackle, though he has made more posts, and still seems scummy, so I would lean Spaackle over evantrees.
A small case if you want to call it that made here by refallen:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720¤tpage=44#868
Sheth calls him out, but doesn't build a real case besides calling him among the scummiest:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720¤tpage=54#1066
Then the first real case is yours:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720¤tpage=70#1397
Followed not too long after by VE's case:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720¤tpage=74#1480
Hopefully at least one of those will serve the purpose for which you asked that.
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Also, with the knowledge we now have, I would just like to take a moment to appreciate this post that I came across while rereading some filters:
On December 12 2011 14:44 ProfessorBadass wrote:
Well first thing's first:
Palmar is scum.
Palmar and I have a long history of never rolling the same alignment. Since I am Town this game Palmar must indeed be scum.
Also I am running for Mayor.
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Hmm, looks like I am triple posting. I guess nobody else is on right now :-(
@greymist
Interesting theory regarding evantrees, but the main issue I am having with evantrees being scum, is that upon reviewing his filter, the only person he tended to consistently call out as being suspicious of/slightly scummy, was ProfessorBadass.
Debating on voting for ProfessorBadass but there is this post... Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 14:44 ProfessorBadass wrote:
Well first thing's first:
Palmar is scum.
Palmar and I have a long history of never rolling the same alignment. Since I am Town this game Palmar must indeed be scum.
Also I am running for Mayor. not certain by any means on ProfessorBadass one way or another, nor do we know exactly what roles are in this game but can kind of see scum going for pardoner to help keep their kp at 3 for as long as possible would it be worth sacrificing a member I'm not sure. Sort of had to change my vote off Arctocod so wanted to put it somewhere, bit skeptical for ProfBA for some reason. didn't want to vote forProfBA at the time had no better option to offer. Gut says Comprissent is scum for some reason and has since early the first day and some suspicion on ProfessorBadass because arc was not dead night one kind of removing that reason for making him withdraw though yes he would be doomed to be hittable night two and on even if prplhz was still alive.
Do you think this is just more soft-bussing to give some more town cred to the other if one was lynched, or genuine suspicion?
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He said it was a joke, when I brought it up during his run for pardoner as part of why I was doubting him. Didn't get my vote but I'm not helping my case mentioning this am I.
or maybe this one by sheth, greymist
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720¤tpage=52#1036
I know how you feel giygas.
I'm certain I'm not scum also fairly certain I don't have a ton to defend myself with. So a question claim now or claim when the night is over?
I called Cascades out for format because from the looks of it his vote was not counted.
and sorry I was working from this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=293723#2
+ Show Spoiler +GiygaS (10): evantrees, Cwave, TotallyNotTwoPeople, VisceraEyes, Radfield, bumatlarge, risk.nuke, MrZentor, nyczbrandon, Arctocod
Arctocod (6): ProfessorBadass, GiygaS, GreYMisT, Liquid`Sheth, TotallyNotTwoPeople, MrZentor, -TotallyNotTwoPeople, Jitsu, Refallen, -Liquid`Sheth, -MrZentor, DEUS-ex-MAFIA
DEUS-ex-MAFIA (1): Liquid`Sheth
Gotta post quicker this kept growing and growing.
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and of course after checking more than once to make sure no one had posted.. ninja'd
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Haha VE no idea where that came from, but well done!
evan claim when the night is over if you're a powerrole, no sense to do it during the night.
I want to take a closer look at Sheth, and maybe Radfield too.
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On December 18 2011 15:35 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:Hmm, looks like I am triple posting. I guess nobody else is on right now :-( @greymist Interesting theory regarding evantrees, but the main issue I am having with evantrees being scum, is that upon reviewing his filter, the only person he tended to consistently call out as being suspicious of/slightly scummy, was ProfessorBadass. Show nested quote +Debating on voting for ProfessorBadass but there is this post... On December 12 2011 14:44 ProfessorBadass wrote:
Well first thing's first:
Palmar is scum.
Palmar and I have a long history of never rolling the same alignment. Since I am Town this game Palmar must indeed be scum.
Also I am running for Mayor. Show nested quote +not certain by any means on ProfessorBadass one way or another, nor do we know exactly what roles are in this game but can kind of see scum going for pardoner to help keep their kp at 3 for as long as possible would it be worth sacrificing a member I'm not sure. Show nested quote +Sort of had to change my vote off Arctocod so wanted to put it somewhere, bit skeptical for ProfBA for some reason. Show nested quote +Gut says Comprissent is scum for some reason and has since early the first day and some suspicion on ProfessorBadass because arc was not dead night one kind of removing that reason for making him withdraw though yes he would be doomed to be hittable night two and on even if prplhz was still alive. Do you think this is just more soft-bussing to give some more town cred to the other if one was lynched, or genuine suspicion?
It could be. As scum it is often hard to make a valid analysis on a town player, unless everyone is playing terribly. The above could be done to the same end as Bum's early accusations of evantrees, a weak case designed to appear like scumhunting, but never really meant to gain momentum.
I of course could be wrong, but to me this all makes sense. I would like Radfield's and Arctocod's input on this as well.
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I feel I should point this out:
On December 15 2011 03:05 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:00 Radfield wrote:
I agree completely on dropbear. He would be my number 1 target for a vig hit tonight. That's insanely stupid. Player who have the potential to be of great use to town should never be vig'd. And rofl at vigging him this soon. What's to say he isnt jsut trying to stay under the mafia rader so he can live and be of great use to us later in game. Fucking idiocy to kill a person like that and even more useless to waste a vig on him.
Look at his reaction to even the mention of a dropbear vig.
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Is MarserBlood getting replaced?
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And one last clarification I would like: Sheth, why did you vote for Deus over Arc or myself? I know you said he'd be better than me, but earlier in the game you thought that people who are "100% not mafia" should be elected. What changed your mind?
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Cascades looks pretty bad now that Curu flipped scum. Statements such this also make me quite suspicious
I have been attempting to analyze the target who were hit last night. Xsksc, prplhz, and (assuming he is telling the truth,) Arcotod. So far, there is so little in common I really can't tie anything together, which initially made me conclude that the mafia are either brilliant in picking their targets, or are just random-firing at anything not red.
It sounds artificial. He couldn't find "anything in common" so mafia is either brilliant or random firing? What exactly did he expect NKs to have in common and why?
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Wait that was comprissent who said that, got the filters mixed up
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Also we know 4 of the mafia roles now (gf+rb+anonymous messager+"district attorney"), not quite sure if Zentor's power being fifth would make sense. I'm leaning against it
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Zentor seems overly interested in roles when he plays mafia games, I'd feel much more comfortable going after for example sheth tomorrow. But I guess we can discuss it at least, seeing as we have a double lynch available.
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EPT
