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I want to play!
/in
+ Show Spoiler +On December 03 2011 17:47 Incognito wrote:
*wherebugsgo is helping me host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him or myself.
On December 03 2011 17:47 Incognito wrote:
Manner:
Respect your fellow players and keep a good atmosphere. I will be very harsh on insults and players who create a bad atmosphere.
^_^ + Show Spoiler +
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On December 03 2011 23:51 annul wrote:
/in
"Extended Majority Lynch" = ?
I think it's #/2+1 votes needed for a lynch.
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On December 05 2011 00:57 TruthBringer wrote:
I don't like the idea of using a zodiac list. I feel like it can be used by the mafia to get townies to hang other townies.
I don't think we should lynch anyone on day 1, personally. I know mafia get kills at night, but blues also have powerful abilities at night.
People are saying 6/25 is high, but it is probably offset by the town having powerful blues or quite a few blues.
Also, I've been out of the TL mafia loop for awhile, so if it comes to day 1 lynching, I'll be completely worthless as I can't read any of you at all.
What do you want us to spend the rest of the day doing if you just want us to no-lynch? Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job? A town shouldn't depend on power roles, especially not in a closed setup. How do you want potential blues to direct their actions tonight? Do you want cops to claim day2? What about sanities? What if nobody claims day2, then we're back at day1 but with a couple of townies dead?
You are obviously not very dumb since you feel confident enough to post very concise opinions on zodiac lists and setup balance, but your no-lynch idea, I can't see how a townie could suggest such a thing.
Also, you proclaim your worthlessness lowering everybody's expectations of you. You can absolutely catch a scum even if you don't have any extensive meta with him/her (I think I just proved that). At the very least YOU CAN TRY, unless you don't want to but in that case you're scum and you can just die.
##Vote TruthBringer
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On December 05 2011 01:38 annul wrote:
thats a ridiculously early claim.
It might be early but I fail to see how it's a claim (and it isn't).
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@redFF
What motivation could there be for a townie to propose a no-lynch this early on day1 in a closed setup? Do you think TruthBringer is bad enough not to be able to figure this out himself?
Why do you think Palmar looks kinda scummy right now?
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On December 05 2011 02:06 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 02:00 prplhz wrote:
@redFF
What motivation could there be for a townie to propose a no-lynch this early on day1 in a closed setup? Do you think TruthBringer is bad enough not to be able to figure this out himself?
Why do you think Palmar looks kinda scummy right now? And what exactly is the scum motivation? Do you think they believe they can get us to nolynch by having TruthBringer propose it? Do you think they would realize what kind of reaction it would provoke?
The scum motivation is to push anti-town agenda. This is obviously not a team effort. What makes me jump on TruthBringer is that he apparently played before so he should be smarter than this. I find it very hard to speculate about closed setups but he does that and he talks about zodiac lists in a very confident manner that makes me think he is good at mafia, and then he proposes a very anti-town plan at a very bad time.
Addressing his follow up:
On December 05 2011 01:57 TruthBringer wrote:
@prplhz
We don't have to do anything on the first day. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something.
I admit that we have more data if we hang someone, because we can see that person's alignment and who voted for him and who voted elsewhere. But more data doesn't mean we are in a better position. If we hang a powerful blue, and the mafia isn't overrepresented in the vote to lynch him, that does us no good.
You seem to think that I can pick out scum just based on bad ideas, but some people are just not good players or come up with bad plans, how am I to know the difference? Like I said, I don't have the experience right now to make the distinction.
Also, there can be differences of opinion. You and I might both be good guys and honestly have different opinions on whether it is a good idea or bad idea to hang on the first day.
"Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something." early day1 is a crazy statement. Then you says that the only thing we gain from lynch is flip, and vote lists which I disagree with, at least if the lynch is done in any proper way at all.
I'm not saying that you can pick out scum just based on what they write in the thread, I'm saying that it is possible and that it is in the best interest of town that everybody gives it a try. I don't have any experience with you, but what you say is still anti-town and that makes me very suspicious of you when I think you should know better.
Why are you proposing that we are both good guys? What do you think of me and my alignment? I'm not saying that it's always a good idea to hang people on day1, I'm saying that it's always bad idea to drop the idea of a lynch early on day1.
Can I ask, when you played before did towns often rely on power roles instead of analysis?
On December 05 2011 06:04 annul wrote:
im still waiting for purple haze to address his blue claim. if i saw it, mafia surely saw it too. and i saw it immediately. ;\
Yea I thought I responded to the "blueslip", I was not claiming and I didn't even know how you could think so before Radfield clarified everything.
I don't get the same feeling about Jackal58's post as Radfield and syllogism, I feel the same way as Drazerk. Actually, I pretty much agree with everything Drazerk has said so far (sorry). I am looking forward to hearing what Palmar has to say when he gets back.
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Okay, since people are still talking about it even though I addressed it twice:
I did not claim blue and I did not slip blue. I meant what Radfield wrote later; "Do you just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do the job (finding scum) that town is supposed to do by/for itself?"
Now can we PLEASE, as a culture, move on?
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People who have disappointed me with their activity so far:
StimilantE: Is this guy even /in? I checked his filter and there was no /in post. Is this guy in and does he even know it? If you are, then start posting, your XLVII lurking will not go in this game.
sandroba: Radfield also pointed this out. You said before we started that you wanted to try a new play style, can you tell us about this? It sounded a lot more exciting than you have shown so far.
hyshes: Well it is your birthday so I suppose I'll cut you some slack.
Soap: No posts.
Mattchew: Joking around and being useless.
If you don't know what to talk about then you probably haven't read the thread. If you have, then post here and encourage people to ask you stuff and maybe you'll get lucky.
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On December 05 2011 10:58 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:52 prplhz wrote:
People who have disappointed me with their activity so far:
StimilantE: Is this guy even /in? I checked his filter and there was no /in post. Is this guy in and does he even know it? If you are, then start posting, your XLVII lurking will not go in this game.
sandroba: Radfield also pointed this out. You said before we started that you wanted to try a new play style, can you tell us about this? It sounded a lot more exciting than you have shown so far.
hyshes: Well it is your birthday so I suppose I'll cut you some slack.
Soap: No posts.
Mattchew: Joking around and being useless.
If you don't know what to talk about then you probably haven't read the thread. If you have, then post here and encourage people to ask you stuff and maybe you'll get lucky. You missed Kingjames01 and Heir. Neither have posted. We also need more from Corrupt and Truthbringer, our two current easy targets. Jackal and Lanaia also need to jump into the conversation a bit more.
Yea, hah, people easily get lost in your notes when you don't have any notes on them at all.
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I have VisceraEyes down as suspicious.
I have only a little meta with VisceraEyes and that is from way back so I don't know if it will be of any use. It hasn't been so far.
It looks like he really wants to get Palmar lynched. He is buddying too hard with redFF and taking his case a bit too seriously. I disagree with his criticism of Drazerk and this is the only thing he's contributed to this game anyway. I think it's weird that he doesn't want to be a part of the nice town atmosphere that he points out we have right now, but he just places his vote and leaves.
Wouldn't lynch but wouldn't miss him either. He has to post more.
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I don't think the Palmar case is strong enough to lynch him on.
Do you think that posting an arguably useless list and proposing a definitely terrible plan is enough to lynch Palmar on, considering that he did it very early on and this is day1?
He posted a lot about how syllogism responded to it, like he was trying to convince people that he actually got something out of the plan. But in the end it was just another bad day1 plan that anybody could have posted to get discussion going, no need to try to justify that at all. I think that was a bit weird, especially when he didn't conclude anything anyway, he could really just have said "I just wanted to see how people reacted.".
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@TruthBringer
You said that "Sometimes it's better doing nothing than something." what makes you think that it is better to do nothing than it is to do something in the situation we are in right now?
Do you think, right now, that no-lynch is a better option than lynching somebody? If you had to lynch somebody right now who would it be and why? What kind of information do you think we'd have day2 that we wouldn't have day1 if we didn't lynch? Do you think the only thing to gain from a lynch is a flip and a vote list?
Why don't you think you can read any of us? Is it because you don't know how we usually play or is it because you haven't played mafia for a while and you don't feel confident about your abilities right now?
You also never answered my question; when you played before, did town often rely on power roles instead of analysis?
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On December 05 2011 23:36 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 23:27 sandroba wrote:
Yes, I do. I went to his filter and I can't tell if scum or not. I think the case on vader is stronger. I am a kite. I went to v7's filter and I can't tell if he's scum or not, I think the rng on Drazerk is stronger.
A null tell on vaderseven is 6/25, an RNG on Drazerk is 6/25, why is the Drazerk case stronger?
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I think TruthBringer and vaderseven are best lynch candidates for today. I will vote TruthBringer over vaderseven because I think he's more likely to flip scum. I don't like lynching Zephirdd or Corrupt.
I think Palmar has been uncharacteristically useless so far but I wouldn't consider him for day1 lynch. sandroba and syllogism are basically confirmed to me and I think that Radfield is looking good too.
@supersoft What do you think about my case on TruthBringer? You commented on one case on TruthBringer but not the other.
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This is all stupid, and extraordinarily rash by vaderseven.
##Unvote TruthBringer
##Vote vaderseven
Why are you just trolling the thread and then forcing people to do stupid shit like this Palmar?
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@Radfield
You have been very active and then now when town needs you to keep people from derping hard like this you just disappear. What do you think about this whole ordeal?
@Palmar
Should I even bother to ask why you want us to lynch redFF?
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This is a closed setup.
I don't think a town dayvig would just shoot so rashly like that and then into a guy he has no read on. Palmar said that you needed to shoot a scum and then you just shoot a random useless lurker. Why didn't you wait for other people to show up and support you against Palmar? This all seems like you felt vulnerable and threatened and like you needed to get your shot off in a hurry and that you didn't care if it hit a townie, even though you were asked to hit a scum. I already found you suspicious and this didn't help at all.
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Stop voting Palmar.
We are not lynching Palmar/syllogism/sandroba/Radfield/redFF/Jackal58 today. Also, Palmar is not scum, his role claim makes zero sense from scum perspective. Drazerk's tunneling is weird.
My biggest scum leads are vaderseven and TruthBringer, but I am willing to vote for Lanaia and Hier. I think that there's a bigger chance of Lanaia flipping scum so she will get my vote today.
##Vote Lanaia
Okay back to reading, I'm at top of page 45.
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No the case against Lanaia is much stronger. She's derped around but she's not in a position to do that. If you look at Palmar's actions today they make perfect sense from town point of view and no sense from scum point of view.
Lanaia doesn't put herself out there, her opinions are wishy washy and I'm pretty sure she's a lot better than this. She also delurks when called out, but she doesn't contribute anyway.
Palmar has been out there. His dayvig claim came at a time when the thread was getting kind of stale and it was with a clear motive in mind. He unclaimed when he couldn't get what he wanted, but for some reason vaderseven still decided to go crazy and shoot somebody. Palmar did what all good townies are supposed to do day1, steer the thread in a good direction by putting themselves out there, maybe even in a slightly scummy way.
People need to stop voting Palmar and start voting Lanaia. She's our best bet for a scum lynch today.
Back to reading.
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Drazerk needs to get his head out of his ass.
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1000
I am now going to lurk for the rest of this game.
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I'm voting Hier if Lanaia isn't getting lynched and Palmar is in danger, but she's a better lynch. I feel the same way about Hier as sandroba does, it's bothersome trying to defend a guy who doesn't give a shit himself. I get a slight townie feel about him even though I agree that his case is terrible and looks a bit forced, but townies who want to contribute but have a hard time will force themselves to do silly analysis too. His analysis in XLVII was also on prominent townies (Palmar/wherebugsgo/BloodyC0bbler) and that fits this pattern. But he is more likely to be scum than Palmar right now, and he is certainly not going to be as useful for town when he doesn't post anything.
@Radfield Why did you change your mind on the Lanaia lynch? She didn't post a single thing and neither did Hier, but for some reason you suddenly decided that Hier was better lynch than Lanaia.
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I don't think Refallen is scum and this is a weird time to try to get people to change to him, but ultimately it appears that it is more kingjames01 trying to justify that he's not voting Hier or something. That's the conclusion anyway.
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@Radfield
Stop trying to make stupid deals. Deal?
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@Palmar
What about his timings during this whole dayvig thing. You retract your dayvig claim here and he absolutely knows this because he asks you if you retracted and then you answer "yes". After that has been established he goes on to shoot Soap even though he says here that he will shoot only if is closed to being lynched. I am really interested in hearing vaderseven's reason for why he shot Soap when he was absolutely certain he wasn't in any immediate danger, going against what he had previously said about his shot, because this is very scummy to me.
I don't see why a townie would shoot in this situation. Even though he hasn't played on this forum a lot, vaderseven is a veteran with years of experience. If he was townie he would have kept his head cool and then he would have listened to other people for opinions on who to shoot.
If he is scum he in a pretty bad situation, and he has following options:
- Claim that he lied, but this would put him in a pretty bad spot. Why would a townie lie and claim dayvig in this situation? Makes no sense.
- He can keep his head cool. He could have asked around for opinions, but that would make his shot controlled by town or it would make him a lot more accountable for whoever he would end up choosing if this wasn't somebody that a lot of people recommended.
- He can just shoot a guy like Soap, and you recognize that this is low-risk target for scum, and how everybody said he was town after that shot and that just proves this point. If he got in more heat he could just blame you and supersoft for how you pressured him into shooting (which was pretty stupid but I'll leave that for now).
If he is town, why the hell didn't he wait for people to show up and tell everybody to calm down? Why didn't he want to listen to other people's opinion, but instead he went all vigilante? I think that this would be the only way for a townie to handle this situation when he's not actually in immediate danger. I don't agree with your idea that vaderseven would have waited around for whatever people said in QT, this was an ideal situation for scum vaderseven to get his shot off without being held very much accountable, and I'm pretty sure that town vaderseven would have kept his cool in this situation.
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@redFF
Hey, what do you think about Mattchew?
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Hey.
@sandroba Your inactivity is a liability to town. Can you tell me what this new style you talked about before we started playing was all about? I don't really see what's different about you this game.
@VisceraEyes Stop tunneling Palmar unless you have a very good case. Take a step back and post an opinion on somebody else, I really doubt that you're going to get Palmar lynched tomorrow based on what I've seen from you so far and your tunneling is starting to look like an excuse to not do anything else.
@Lanaia You too are not really being very helpful. You haven't done anything that resembles scum hunting this game, when can we expect something from you? What do you mean that talking during night just kind of paints targets (or anti-targets) everywhere? Do you think town should just be quiet during the night?
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@vaderseven Then why don't you engage in some scum hunting? Who besides Palmar do you think is scum? VisceraEyes thinks that redFF and sandroba are suspicious, what do you think about that?
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@Radfield
Where would you put Jackal58 and redFF on that medic protect list? Why do you think mafia would block vaderseven, do you think he might have two shots, one for day and one for night? Doesn't that seem a little over powered?
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Hey, I've decided to try my hand at some case writing even though I haven't done this successfully for god knows how long. I still want to lynch vaderseven and TruthBringer but I don't think that's going to happen today so here's another guy I'm suspicious of.
On Mattchew
The guy starts this game by joking around for three posts, to look active rather than to help. He is then called out for it by Radfield and I, after which he doesn't joke around anymore at all. I think this looks like mafia who got attention he didn't like and then he changes his behavior abruptly.
In his next post he comments on current event in thread, but what strikes me is that he calls Palmar "suspicious" and also attempts to discredit syllogism for what he believes is a logical inconsistency (but it isn't). This will be a trademark of Mattchew's posts. He does the same thing to Palmar here when he quotes how Palmar support LALiars in last game but lies here, indirectly saying that Palmar should be lynched but without saying it himself.
Next thing he does is argue a bit with Zephirdd when Zephirdd calls him out on his relative uselessness. His defense is not trying to be townie, it is not trying to prove that Zephirdd is wrong in any way, his defense is actually an attack on Zephirdd. I think mafia mostly feel guilty in the charges against them, but they still have to do something about it, so pointing out the flaws of others hoping that attention will be directed at them instead is something a lot of mafia do. He is not saying that Zephirdd is wrong, he is saying that Zephirdd is being a hypocrite, but this does not make his attack less valid.
Next thing he does is go for redFF in this post. I find this weird because his reasoning is that redFF has gone for Palmar and is now going for Corrupt, but he said that redFF looked townie in this post, and that was after redFF tried to get Palmar lynched in the beginning of the game. Also, Mattchew has a pattern of going after "scum tells", his attack on Zephirdd consisted only of this too.
In his next post he refuses to vote for Palmar and vaderseven. but the manner in which this is done is more interested. Like with the "prplhz, Drazerk and redFF look townie", I think scum like to band up names and then comment on them collectively instead of forming an opinion on each one of them. This way they don't have to argue for their opinion and they will hopefully get the support of the townies who are on that list because he is actually called them scum. I believe that there is a scum on both of those lists of names, but Mattchew thinks he will get away with calling them townie without actually having to argue for it because he grouped them with other townies.
In this post he actually says no-lynch > lyching Palmar at a very critical point in the game, Palmar was getting pushed very hard and was looking to be lynched if it wasn't the the collective intervention of just about every veteran in this game except Drazerk. The thing I think is weird about this is how hard he's apparently changed his stance on Palmar, from trolling lying RNGing to "townie". The post is also very egocentric, what he does here is say "Palmar is town, I'm not voting for him." but he doesn't care what everybody else does. Why isn't he trying to get people off Palmar and onto something else instead of just washing his hands and then watching the blood bath that seemed almost inevitable at the point?
Overall his style is being aggressive on other people's integrity while very defensive on his own. All his aggression seems to be to discredit other people instead of actually finding scum and he seems more concerned with his own innocence than with other's guilt.
##Vote Mattchew
@Radfield You need to do something today, that night2-deal you made yesterday wasn't accepted by anybody with a brain. Palmar has started contributing and so will you have to.
@VisceraEyes I appreciate the effort but Palmar isn't getting lynched today and there are 5 other scum out there for you to catch right? Focus on somebody else.
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@Radfield
There was just an incident that made him seem very townie to me but I'm not going to talk about it. "Basically confirmed" might have been a bit too strong but it gets my opinion across, I think he's town.
Reading Lanaia's posts there's nothing that makes me thing that she's town. This spells out unhelpful townie to me, I was expecting more from her but I have only played with her once before and redFF said that she was always weird and useless on day1 or something like that, don't remember it exactly. She said she'll do better today and I'm looking forward to that or else I think we should look more into her.
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@Radfield I already answered that question in my Mattchew analysis.
Some points I'd like everybody to consider:
On Palmar
Palmar was being attacked all night long by VisceraEyes and he hadn't escaped suspicion by a lot of other people even though his bandwagon was very suddenly abandoned yesterday. Why would Palmar as scum shoot syllogism, when syllogism not only found the case on Palmar very weak, he was also one of the most townie players in this game so far? Why would Palmar shoot supersoft, who game after game does not stop sheeping Palmar and thinking he is innocent, this game included? In face of serious accusations, Palmar decided to shoot his two biggest supporters in town. This makes no sense.
On annul
Why would annul claim if there was a scum medic protecting him?
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Okay premature post:
On annul
Why would annul claim if there was a scum medic protecting him? It is more far fetched to think that syllogism actually shot annul than it is to think that he didn't, why would annul attract so much attention to himself? His defense in face of syllogism's accusations last night was alright, there was no damning reason to think that syllogism had shot annul last night if annul hadn't claimed. Scum annul protected by scum medic would not have claimed. This doesn't make him less guilty and I'd like to see him step his game up today.
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What I am saying is that Palmar is most likely not scum and most definitely not best lynch candidate right now. For the first time ever I see why tunneling can be terrible for town but that's because VisceraEyes is taking it to unprecedented levels. I have actually stopped reading his posts and I am now only skimming them, this is terrible but I cannot trust anything he says because he is so tunnely, even when I ask him about other people he will only talk about how he feel about them in relation to Palmar. VisceraEyes needs to stop talking about Palmar if he wants people to take him seriously when he talks about Palmar.
annul needs to be scrutinized today but I'm not ready to call him scum.
I'd also like for everybody to look at my Mattchew case and tell me what you think about it.
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No, I actually agree that syllogism most definitely shot tonight, but it's not unrealistic to think that he didn't. But I think that for quite a few people in this game it is more far fetched than he shot than that he didn't shoot. annul is one of the few guys in my notes who I actually don't have a read on, this is why I think it is weird that syllogism would shoot annul tonight. Their exchange last night was
syllogism: "You were around but you didn't post."
annul: "Yes, but I was studying for my exam."
Which seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation, no reason to disbelief it. I'm going to read annul's filter again and see if I can get a read on him, but please continue with the pressure.
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On December 08 2011 00:54 sandroba wrote:
Pretty damn obvious that syllo shot annul and no retard in his right mind would protect him night1. VOTE ANNUL RIGHT NOW IF YOU VOTE ANYONE ELSE YOU MAFIA.
Holy fuck.
##Vote annul
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Something is totally off about Radfield.
@Radfield Why am I a better lynch than annul? Why is sandroba a better lynch than annul? Why is kingjames01 a better lynch than annul?
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@Radfield
I'm not a big fan of you calling me "prp" it kinda reminds me of "perpetrator", can't you call me "prpl" or "prplhz" instead? I call you Radfield all the time.
Can you outline for me what is bothering you about me? I can see how you might have a problem with the two other people on that list, though I don't think either of them is a better lynch than annul at all. I'd like to stop you from writing a huge accusation on me because I doubt I'm getting lynched today and I wouldn't want you to waste time on a big post on me.
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On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
OK, I think prplhz is scum.
Before getting into specifics of this game, I want to talk a bit about prplhz's style and general posting habits.
A town aligned prplhz is what I would call a highly aggressive player. He calls people out, calls people names, is not afraid of going after big names, and has a good sense of what tells are null.
Yea I had a period where I just mindlessly tunneled veterans as town, DoctorHelvetica in LotR, Incognito in XLV. While DoctorHelvetica actually turned out to be scum, I don't think I played well in any of these games and I decided to stop doing it. In Mini Mafia X I went for wherebugsgo because I really thought he was scum, but that was not mindless tunneling, actually I thought he was scum because I thought everybody else was town, and then my favorite scum tell: people aren't playing as well as they should be.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:An example of Mini Mafia X(prplhz is Vanilla townie): Show nested quote +
Are you fucking kidding me?
That's stupid.
Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that.
You guys all suck. jaybrundage has a valid excuse but people like Mr. Wiggles and Palmar don't. Stop being derps.
Yea hiro protagonist is scum
Look at my first post in this game, I quote the manner rule. Just because I'm not swearing doesn't make me scum.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
He then proceeds to push hiro protagonist strongly, while at the same time pressuring several other players. He is confident, assertive and unafraid to get on someones bad side.
He is also not afraid to call vets scum if he sees it. In LOTR you went after DocHelvetica on day 1, in MMX he pushed WBG without support for 3 solid days. He did not build a proper case in either instance, but simply pushed them as scum.
Are you saying I'm not confident, assertive and unafraid of getting on someones bad side in this game? I've stated my opinion several times, I'm also on several people's bad side. I'm also not afraid to call veterans scum as you will see in the end of this post.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
Now lets talk about prplhz's scum play, because I think it's actually pretty decent. However, I would characterize it as being safe, helpful, generally 1 big case, and a very different tone. I would grab some game quotes here, but I'm just not going to have the time today. You'll have to take my word for it. Check out PYPInteresting specifically though
Is this your argument? I swear when I'm town and I don't swear when I'm scum? That doesn't hold.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:What makes prplhz scum this game: He is consistently jumping on people for small things and small tells, and NOT pressuring in the way I would expect. First his vote on Truthbringer. Now, truthbringer said some outrageously anti-town things, and really 'new player' things as well. However, prplhz's entire argument is weak and he should know it. Saying dumb things does NOT make someone scum, and oftentimes is more of a townie tell. I would typically expect prplhz to call him on it and let it pass. He does no such thing though, and argues several times that Truthbringer is actually scum. Yet, and this is a big yet, there is absolutely no conviction there.
My argument wasn't that TruthBringer was playing bad, it was that he was playing worse than he is supposed to play. TruthBringer had played in several games before and he should know that, though I gave him some chance to redeem himself because he might have played so long ago that people relied on blues. Saying "no-lynch and no discussion today" and then playing the newbie card to get out of it is blatantly anti-town and can only be done by first-gamers on this forum in my opinion. TruthBringer's scum reminds me of my own scum, I can't stop pushing scum agenda and I rely on total self delusion that I am actually townie to get out of it. That's what I see in TruthBringer's play and that's why I still think that he's scum.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +Also, you proclaim your worthlessness lowering everybody's expectations of you. You can absolutely catch a scum even if you don't have any extensive meta with him/her (I think I just proved that). At the very least YOU CAN TRY, unless you don't want to but in that case you're scum and you can just die. ^Kinda indicates Truth is scum, but waffles a bit Show nested quote +What motivation could there be for a townie to propose a no-lynch this early on day1 in a closed setup? Do you think TruthBringer is bad enough not to be able to figure this out himself? ^Indicates Truth is probably scum, ie "what motivation could there be for a townie...." Show nested quote +The scum motivation is to push anti-town agenda. This is obviously not a team effort. What makes me jump on TruthBringer is that he apparently played before so he should be smarter than this. I find it very hard to speculate about closed setups but he does that and he talks about zodiac lists in a very confident manner that makes me think he is good at mafia, and then he proposes a very anti-town plan at a very bad time. ^Seems to indicate Truth is definitely scum Yet after all that he finishes pretty soft(quote below) and his tone indicates(at least to me) that he doesn't actually think Truth is scum.
I don't waffle and I think he's scum, I've said repeatedly ever since my first case on TruthBringer that I think he's a good lynch and that I think he is scum.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +I'm not saying that you can pick out scum just based on what they write in the thread, I'm saying that it is possible and that it is in the best interest of town that everybody gives it a try. I don't have any experience with you, but what you say is still anti-town and that makes me very suspicious of you when I think you should know better.
Why are you proposing that we are both good guys? What do you think of me and my alignment? I'm not saying that it's always a good idea to hang people on day1, I'm saying that it's always bad idea to drop the idea of a lynch early on day1.
Can I ask, when you played before did towns often rely on power roles instead of analysis? Later on, he posts basically his last comment to truthbringer, and last mention of him at all outside of "I still think truthbringer is scummy"
And I still think he's scummy, but people weren't convinced, so I moved on to other targets. In Mini Mafia X I tunneled wherebugsgo for 3 days in a row because I knew he was scum and because and because he was the only scum left. I don't know that any of these guys are scum and there's plenty of other useful stuff I can do in the thread. I pressured lurkers, I tried to prevent excessive tunneling, I prodded here and there, I found other people I find suspicious.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +
@TruthBringer
You said that "Sometimes it's better doing nothing than something." what makes you think that it is better to do nothing than it is to do something in the situation we are in right now?
Do you think, right now, that no-lynch is a better option than lynching somebody? If you had to lynch somebody right now who would it be and why? What kind of information do you think we'd have day2 that we wouldn't have day1 if we didn't lynch? Do you think the only thing to gain from a lynch is a flip and a vote list?
Why don't you think you can read any of us? Is it because you don't know how we usually play or is it because you haven't played mafia for a while and you don't feel confident about your abilities right now?
You also never answered my question; when you played before, did town often rely on power roles instead of analysis?
^Again, this is not the tone that prplhz takes with people he thinks are scum. He pushes them aggressively, not softballing them questions. Questions which Truth never answers and prplhz never follows up on.
Again, you are basing your case on the fact that I am following the manner rule stated in the OP and quote by me in my first post in this thread. Sometimes it's fun to be an asshole, but your entire case is "the guy is not saying 'fuck' enough". TruthBringer actually answered these questions and well enough but too late to sway my opinion on him. I didn't follow up because the thread had moved on and nobody seemed to like my TruthBringer case, and his answers didn't sway my opinion anyway because they were way too late.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
Since then prplhz has completely let truth off the hook.
I said just a couple hours ago that I still like him for lynch today.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Next: vadersevenShow nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:04 prplhz wrote:
This is all stupid, and extraordinarily rash by vaderseven.
##Unvote TruthBringer
##Vote vaderseven
Why are you just trolling the thread and then forcing people to do stupid shit like this Palmar? Votes vaderseven for being "stupid and extraordinarily rash". Extraordinarly rash? Really? My thinking is that if you actually thought vaderseven was mafia, you would absolutely NOT characterize his play as extraordinarily rash. You would characterize it as opportunistic or perhaps panicky, but not rash. Rash is very much a townie trait.
They key word is "extraordinarily", the guy was faster on the trigger than I'd expected from a townie with his experience. "Opportunistic" also fits but I hadn't thought the situation fully through back then, I'll agree with it now though.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
Notice also that prplhz accuses Palmar of forcing people to do stupid shit. If prplhz ACTUALLY thought vaderseven was scum because of this exchange, then he should be applauding Palmar for outting a scum, NOT chiding him. You absolutely cannot have it both ways. Either vader is scummy and it was a great play by Palmar to out him, or vader is town and is was stupid of Palmar to force the issue.
Yea, maybe I should have applauded Palmar. He was playing a trolly and risky and I think I was still a bit pissed about that but in the end it worked out well but it might as well have turned out very bad.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:This shows a solidly scum mindset. Accuse vader of being scum for acting stupidly, accuse Palmar of bad play for forcing the issue. prplhz KNOWS that both are town, and lets neither of them off the hook. Prp mentions vader again Here, but I don't have much to say about it. I think he is deliberately refusing to see things from vaders point of view, and nitpicking the way the situation went down, instead of looking at it in whole form.
And how is the whole form? The guy was threatened with a lynch like 24 hours before deadline, and then he shot somebody in the face as a reaction before any other townies than Palmar and supersoft had had anything to say about it. vaderseven was not in any immediate danger and he should have kept his head cold but he didn't.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +
Where would you put Jackal58 and redFF on that medic protect list? Why do you think mafia would block vaderseven, do you think he might have two shots, one for day and one for night? Doesn't that seem a little over powered?
^Doesn't seem to doubt vader's claim here, yet if prplhz really thinks vaderseven is scum, it means he thinks vader is absolutely lying about his Jack claim. Yet prplhz has never even mentioned the possibility. It seems to me that prplhz is sticking with vader for lack of a better target, and refusing to assimilate the additional info that indicates vader is town. Prplhz is simply sticking with the sentiment because it is thread accepted to do so.
What extra information indicates that vaderseven is town? I kinda doubt vaderseven's claim here, the Jack claim would be very clutch of him but on the other hand it allows him to like, fake night hit survival and other stuff. I think it's actually a very good role for scum to claim "I have a role with unspecified powers" and then just adapt everything to the situation he's in. This is purely role speculation and I'm not very good at that I think so...
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Next: Hier voteShow nested quote +I'm voting Hier if Lanaia isn't getting lynched and Palmar is in danger, but she's a better lynch. I feel the same way about Hier as sandroba does, it's bothersome trying to defend a guy who doesn't give a shit himself. I get a slight townie feel about him even though I agree that his case is terrible and looks a bit forced, but townies who want to contribute but have a hard time will force themselves to do silly analysis too. His analysis in XLVII was also on prominent townies (Palmar/wherebugsgo/BloodyC0bbler) and that fits this pattern. But he is more likely to be scum than Palmar right now, and he is certainly not going to be as useful for town when he doesn't post anything. Not once not twice but three times prplhz indicates that he thinks Hier could be town. However he couches that in three instances of reasons to vote him. Classic scum vote post. Plenty of outs, plenty of ass-covering, no willingness to straight-up accept the mislynch.
I have no idea what your point is here really. I voted Hier to save Palmar and Hier could have been scum even though I didn't think he was. I don't blame anybody who voted for Hier, they did the right thing even though he turned out to be town.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
Next: Mattchew case
I find this an exceptionally weak case prplhz builds on Mattchew. It picks up every null tell and newbie town tell that Mattchew has made. Prplhz knows better than this. He even prefaces his entire argument with stating he sucks at making strong arguments:
I'm pretty bad at writing cases rofl look at Mini Mafia X where I push a scum wherebugsgo for 3 days without getting him lynched. I don't think my case is weak, I just say I'm bad at writing them.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +Hey, I've decided to try my hand at some case writing even though I haven't done this successfully for god knows how long. He also makes a very similarly weak case(but long winded) on Foolishness in PYPI(when prplhz is red). I could talk more about this but I'm not going to.
Rofl, Foolishness was actually shot on your orders for being scummy :D Maybe my case was bad, but both townie Radfield and townie Mig and townie syllogism thought he was on the scummy side too, and this was a PM game where you guys could discuss it all in private. I was scum in that game but it was multifactional scum game so I was also actually scum hunting. Just because I write bad cases doesn't mean that I'm scum (and it doesn't mean I'm not right either), and you distorting the facts here looks like a confession to me. Townie Radfield doesn't need to distort facts, he will eat you raw if you are scum, but I think that he feels that this case on me is pretty weak too and he has to make something up to make it stronger.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:Next: Annul voteGonna cut things short here. Spends two or three posts defending annul and states several times he does not think he is scum. As the bandwagon builds he is suddenly swayed by Sandroba bunk post: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:04 prplhz wrote:On December 08 2011 00:54 sandroba wrote:
Pretty damn obvious that syllo shot annul and no retard in his right mind would protect him night1. VOTE ANNUL RIGHT NOW IF YOU VOTE ANYONE ELSE YOU MAFIA. Holy fuck. ##Vote annul
Yea, I'm swayed by sandroba's post. I think sandroba is likely town and he is giving a glimpse of his new playstyle here (more caps bullying, less reason). Also, I asked Palmar about what I was uneasy about with the annul case and he answered me in a satisfying manner, I mostly just quoted sandroba for the lulz.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
I honestly thought he was joking at first, but it appears he was serious.
Yes I was. I would like to see where this annul pressure will lead us, though I'm worried about the lacking case on him but I'll most likely vote on him until the end.
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:
At this point I'm fairly confident prplhz is scum.
##Vote prplhz
At this point I'm fairly confident that Radfield is scum, he should know that I'm town by now and he shouldn't attack me like this. I really feel bad for you Radfield because you can't be wrong one single time as town or else people jump you  Also, sorry for textwall.
tl;dr: I'm not scum, but Radfield most likely is.
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Now stop talking about past game QTs.
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On December 08 2011 06:45 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:42 prplhz wrote:Now stop talking about past game QTs. Why? (this isn't meant to be rude I would actually like to know why previous game QT's should not be used)
Use them all you want, people were just talking about whether it was posted and whether it should be posted and stuff like that. There is it, it was posted and that's all there is to say about that, move on to stuff that is actually related to the game we're playing right now.
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@redFF
He is not getting lynched because he is not scum. How the hell is that even supposed to be a scumslip? Do you think that VisceraEyes is doing any good with his tunneling, or do you think that his opinion becomes tainted by the fact that he can't stop obsessing about Palmar? Do you think it is easy to read VisceraEyes when he is tunneling as hard as I have ever seen anybody tunnel? What do you think about sandroba saying that you're probably town, you just can't form a coherent thought this game? What do you think about Mattchew?
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@Radfield My main point about vaderseven is that he shot Soap. Since sandroba and Palmar pointed out that you're probably scum you have dropped your "please let me do nothing until night2"-idea and tried to appear a lot more helpful, so maybe you can tell me why vaderseven shot Soap?
Can you also tell me about your other scum reads besides me? I think townie Radfield at this point would have like the entire scum team mapped out but you have one non-scum in me and then you have Erandorr who I don't have a clear read on right now but I think he's town.
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@sandroba, Palmar: Why didn't annul claim veteran? So easy to claim.
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@Radfield
PYP:Interesting, you were only wrong about one guy during that entire game. I only played with you in that game and in LotR where you were scum. I guess my claim is mostly based on your reputation which might be better than you are, but I was pretty impressed with you in PYP:Interesting and you were obviously town to everybody after day0, in this game you're wobbly even during day2. I supposed there was a reason why chaoser shot you night2 in LotR.
How the hell can you say that VisceraEyes is "Maybe town", the guy has been tunneling the same person all game long and that person is on your town list rofl.
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Okay.
The reason why Palmar isn't getting lynched today is because he is town.
THE REASON HE IS TOWN, is because there's nothing pointing to him being scum. The cases I've seen so far has been about Palmar being useless when he was answering a question during the first hours of day1. When the hell has anybody been useless then? Then there's the whole fake dayvig claim, but he had a good lead and then he lied to investigate it further. This was very risky but I don't see in any way what motivation a scum could have for drawing so much attention to himself. His role also doesn't say anything about his alignment in a closed setup like this.
VisceraEyes' case was pretty bad and overall I have a townie feeling about Palmar because he has mostly the same reads as I do and a practical in-your-face approach that gives me townie vibes.
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Yea, I don't agree with it.
Saying that he think syllogism acted differently towards him isn't damning at all. I found the post a bit weird too but I already stated why.
His random lynch is something he suggested in Mini Mafia X as town too.
vaderseven actually did post his notes. It was a lead and Palmar followed through with it, instead we could have been sitting there with no notes and the thread was very stale at the point. This is WIFOMy but would scum Palmar fake claim dayvig just to get some notes from a guy he would know had notes? Seems very unnecessary.
Palmar's case on Hier wasn't too great I give you that, but syllogism proposed it too and he was definitely town. Palmar hasn't tried to push any of the burden of the mislynch onto syllogism, instead he took active part in the lynch. Not scummy.
He denounces the bandwagon on him as pretty bad based on the fact that the most experienced player on it was Drazerk. No offense to Drazerk, I have been there where you had had enough of Palmar's sometimes rather annoying antics, but it was a bad wagon. You also thought so yourself.
On December 06 2011 06:39 redFF wrote:
GODDAMN THIS PALMAR WAGON IS BAD
I don't see the anonymous vote as a scummy ability, this is a closed setup and most speculation about roles is pretty useless. I think a lot of people agreed with me on that already. Also, he willingly told everybody about his ability quite some time before the bandwagon on him picked up too much speed, something I don't see a scum motivation for.
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@Zephirdd
You're not off about Radfield's list, it is weird because he is likely scum and you're very likely town.
You're not wrong about how very specific speculation about setup/roles can't be effectively relied upon in a closed setup.
I don't think it is likely that Drazerk is scum, we can only speculate about why scum did not kill him. My theory is that they wanted to isolate Palmar and lynch him today so they took away two of his biggest supporters.
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@Palmar
Why didn't annul claim veteran? How do you feel about vaderseven? You know the guy has played forum mafia for years right, he isn't supposed to panic in a situation where he has confirmed that he's not in any immediate danger.
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So scum do not get angry at people pushing them and threatening to shoot them or what? And townies do? And townies shoot people in the face for no reason? Since he probably is a Jack, does that in any way make it more likely that he is town? Why wouldn't a scum Jack try to breadcrumb his role? His reason for breadcrumbing it was that you were a dayvig, and he thought he could convince you that he was one too by breadcrumbing, but he isn't a dayvig. He's a Jack. How does that make any sense? At that point he was in a pretty stressful situation so I don't read much into that, I just don't think there's anything about his behavior during that entire thing that indicates that he's town and I think it's weird that you feel so strongly about him being town.
If there's any medic out there who protected annul and it looks like he's about to get lynched and you think he's a more valuable player than you are, then you should claim. I don't think any player who would have protected annul last night could be any more valuable than him, so I think that it is weird that annul doesn't want the medic to claim at any point. annul thinks highly of himself so it is weird that he doesn't think he's more important that some medic, he's been pretty vocal about how the medic must not claim.
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My biggest problem with annul is that medic isn't claiming. As long as a medic hasn't claimed I'm not changing my vote, I have a hard time judging annul but I trust sandroba on this because holy fuck.
No this is not blue fishing, I think that any medic who protected annul last night isn't as big an asset for town as annul can be so it's good if he thinks his claim can save annul. Setup wise I think it sounds weird with 2 medics and 2 mafia night kills, but of course this is probably offset by Drazerk being medic who has to claim. It's funny that it is Drazerk who got that role, he likes to claim and he likes to protect scum as town.
annul is likely mafia and everybody should vote him.
@vaderseven
I don't believe you and I still think you're scum. From what I know of you, I'd much rather think that you are good scum than terrible townie, sorry.
I like how people are slowly beginning to see what I meant about Mattchew and TruthBringer.
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Poor Drazerk 
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gg guys i was town anything anybody wants to ask me before wbg sees this?
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lol he's too fucking fast and with a fancy picture and all
well gg
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I think the post-game atmosphere is pretty bad.
Some people are being excessively hard, a lot of people have a lot of stuff to learn from this game and that's probably what post-game should focus on. Not that people are retards 
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Well, I was actually referring to syllogism's "You guys will never improve"-thing. It's like when Ace made that post saying "Everybody sucks" and then just left it there, I have played like 50 games and I still suck but I only really started improving after a lot of nice people started me giving some really good advice
I think people here need to listen to the people who are considered good players a lot more (one of the advice I myself was given at some point and that drastically improved my play). Learn to get a good read on them and learn how they play and then put them in the spot light, there they will either perform or they will out themselves. Learn to read the special cases that are the experienced players first and then listen to what they have to say 'cause they're often right, or they will sound stupid, then move on to start scum hunting for real yourself. Town hunting is a lot easier I'd say Also, if one good player says something and 10 not-so-good players say something else, it's usually the good player who is right.
Dunno, I really shouldn't be giving advice but that's my take on this game. I was actually not entirely convinced about annul either, but I was very sure that Palmar was town and I was very sure that syllogism had shot annul, so that was two good players saying that a guy was definitely scum, and that very often means that he's scum.
Also, yea Drazerk you need a break from mafia I think You had a god damn mental break down this game. Totally contrary to how you played in XLVII which I enjoyed a lot
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On December 19 2011 06:52 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 06:51 prplhz wrote:Also, yea Drazerk you need a break from mafia I think You had a god damn mental break down this game. Totally contrary to how you played in XLVII which I enjoyed a lot Yeah this is my last game for a long while lol
I'll await your return
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Uhmn, I didn't really mean the "You need a break, Drazerk"-thing like that. I'd play with Drazerk if he joined my next game no problem it just seemed to me like he didn't really enjoy this game. He even claimed to be emo-trolling, which isn't really a sign that you're having fun I think.
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On December 19 2011 19:32 syllogism wrote:This was the highlight of the game for me Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:04 prplhz wrote:On December 08 2011 00:54 sandroba wrote:
Pretty damn obvious that syllo shot annul and no retard in his right mind would protect him night1. VOTE ANNUL RIGHT NOW IF YOU VOTE ANYONE ELSE YOU MAFIA. Holy fuck. ##Vote annul Sandroba does his compulsory bussing post with as little effort as possible and immediately convinces a townie e: well actually there was a funnier post but I don't want to be mean
Hah well I was actually convinced by Palmar but I thought this post was funnily out of character for sandroba so I quoted that for the lolz It should probably have made me suspicious of sandroba instead.
Also, thanks for the amazing analysis Incognito and wherebugsgo.
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On January 01 2012 18:44 Kenpachi wrote:
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I actually enjoy this community.
I hope you'll come around DoctorHelvetica, this place (well, any place really) can always use more people like you
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EPT
