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On December 06 2011 22:52 prplhz wrote:@Palmar What about his timings during this whole dayvig thing. You retract your dayvig claim here and he absolutely knows this because he asks you if you retracted and then you answer "yes". After that has been established he goes on to shoot Soap even though he says here that he will shoot only if is closed to being lynched. I am really interested in hearing vaderseven's reason for why he shot Soap when he was absolutely certain he wasn't in any immediate danger, going against what he had previously said about his shot, because this is very scummy to me. I don't see why a townie would shoot in this situation. Even though he hasn't played on this forum a lot, vaderseven is a veteran with years of experience. If he was townie he would have kept his head cool and then he would have listened to other people for opinions on who to shoot. If he is scum he in a pretty bad situation, and he has following options: - Claim that he lied, but this would put him in a pretty bad spot. Why would a townie lie and claim dayvig in this situation? Makes no sense.
- He can keep his head cool. He could have asked around for opinions, but that would make his shot controlled by town or it would make him a lot more accountable for whoever he would end up choosing if this wasn't somebody that a lot of people recommended.
- He can just shoot a guy like Soap, and you recognize that this is low-risk target for scum, and how everybody said he was town after that shot and that just proves this point. If he got in more heat he could just blame you and supersoft for how you pressured him into shooting (which was pretty stupid but I'll leave that for now).
If he is town, why the hell didn't he wait for people to show up and tell everybody to calm down? Why didn't he want to listen to other people's opinion, but instead he went all vigilante? I think that this would be the only way for a townie to handle this situation when he's not actually in immediate danger. I don't agree with your idea that vaderseven would have waited around for whatever people said in QT, this was an ideal situation for scum vaderseven to get his shot off without being held very much accountable, and I'm pretty sure that town vaderseven would have kept his cool in this situation.
You're all saying he knew that nothing was going to happen and everybody was already cooling down and told him he does not have to do a thing. That's a lie. Yes Palmar said he's not a dayvig, still he pushed for his notes.
Now that's what hit the board 60-120 secs before he typed his kill-command: Klick me!
Sure it's from supersoft but still, that's what triggered him I think. Sure palmar said he's not a dayvig but ss coming in there saying "ok awesome now shoot someone or you're dead" is not exactly helping him or anyone who's trying to arguee that v7 did not have to shoot.
That's what I think. He f5ed, he saw that and maybe he was a little bit scared, maybe a lot pissed and he shot. I would have shot ss or palmar after that post from ss as well. The only thing that's weird is the soap decision but since soaps together with palmar and ss in this I can see this as reasonable.
my2 cents about that story because I think those people trying to tell us "there was no need to shoot" are lacking context big time
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Those are some excellent points prplhz, I actually forgot the exact timeline, and was under the impression v7 wasn't aware I retracted my claim when he shot.
I will re-read the entire thing now.
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EBWOP
@redFF
I also would like to hear your explaination of your switch to "passive" mode, when the heat rised.
You stopped doing any sort of scumhunting and basicaly you are just relying
on old shit, like my first post in the game. Nothing else caught your attention recently? Really?
If you're so suspicious about me, let me hear some real arguments.
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On December 06 2011 21:04 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 20:55 syllogism wrote:
Yes, that was inappropriate but his farewell post was quite ridiculous Maybe he's thinking ahead to future games where he might actually be mafia. Then he can purposely not post and quote himself. It's ingenious!! If I get killed tonight, I'm going to have to come up with a really good multi-purpose death post as well.
"if i get killed tonight" - i think you're scum
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On December 06 2011 22:38 Corrupt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:27 Mattchew wrote:
Im ##vote redFF his posts are all one liners and offer literally nothing. He originally voted Palmar then hoped off that when others starting voting him. He is now trying to start a corrupt bandwagon leading me to believe that palmar and corrupt are town as well. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:55 Mattchew wrote:
My feeling is that redFF is mafia and I would like people to look more closely at that. If not I cannot sit here and vote for someone we know so little about... I am with you on this one. There's something fishy about him and lately with all the non-productive one-liners he posts, I'm starting to have a stronger feeling on him. Okey so, in the start he did some scumhunting, made a case on Palmar and proved to be very agressive in his search for information. I read this as an attempt of establishing himself as a Green player (which I think he succeeded to do). Then what he does is switching his vote from Palmar (his original case) to me. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:23 redFF wrote:
##Unvote
meh palmar you're ok for now
can't get over corrupt saying "so many suspicious people" and then only being able to list 1 and then ignoring my pushing of the issue.
##Vote Corrupt After I ask for his argument, he just ignores me with this line: <2 people is not "so many"> And never sayis anything in addition to the subject. Okey, good, but later.. This happens: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:47 Corrupt wrote:On December 06 2011 06:39 redFF wrote:
GODDAMN THIS PALMAR WAGON IS BAD You had a case on Palmar earlier and now you're unhappy with the current events. Bother to explain please? He just goes: ..What?
YOU MAKE NO SENSE
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In my opinion a claimed or outer vig is an amazingly good target for night kill if believed or an unconfirmable role claim to everyone.
Your choice of calling soap homeboy mildly influenced the choice as like a small wifom chance of being scum with palmar. The main reason I choose soap was because I believe, as was kinda pointed this night, that his present Meta after the last game would make it possible for him to play the lurkiest most unhelpful scum. On the chance that he was town he was going to be just as helpful as he was last game.
The only two uses he was going to have was to be a decoy for scum and to add 1 to the town count..
I think the change of votes on heir that forced the votes of several of us onto him from Palmer was ill timed and a poor decesion.
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Why didn't you tell us before you shot Soap? There is literally no harm for town to simply chill for an hour and ask the people who are very likely to be town if Soap is a good shot.
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If I could redo my target I would have shot palmar and I am not 100% sure why I did not.
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Ya the fact that I have buyer's remorse over my choice of target makes me start to agree at least a bit that my action was used in haste.
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On December 06 2011 23:19 Palmar wrote:
Why didn't you tell us before you shot Soap? There is literally no harm for town to simply chill for an hour and ask the people who are very likely to be town if Soap is a good shot.
well it's a tricky situation I guess.
Just think about it, the guy just claimed dayvig (which is the only mistake he did imo) so he had to shoot at some point, Sadly that point was day1. I wouldn't trust 3 guys who threaten to kill me, so he obviously was not going to listen to a thing you guys said.
Probably the rest would have told him to not shoot so early. So he had to make that decision on his own.
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Ya the way I see a claimed dayvig has to shoot.
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Yeah everyone was getting really aggressive on v7 which probably contributed to his not so good shot on Soap
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Well the town's collective shot on hier worked out much better than v7's shot on soap . . .
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On December 06 2011 23:27 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 23:19 Palmar wrote:
Why didn't you tell us before you shot Soap? There is literally no harm for town to simply chill for an hour and ask the people who are very likely to be town if Soap is a good shot. well it's a tricky situation I guess. Just think about it, the guy just claimed dayvig (which is the only mistake he did imo) so he had to shoot at some point, Sadly that point was day1. I wouldn't trust 3 guys who threaten to kill me, so he obviously was not going to listen to a thing you guys said. Probably the rest would have told him to not shoot so early. So he had to make that decision on his own.
Why didn't he ask the rest then?
I wanted him to shoot Drazerk, who I think is mafia.
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On December 07 2011 00:20 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 23:27 Toadesstern wrote:On December 06 2011 23:19 Palmar wrote:
Why didn't you tell us before you shot Soap? There is literally no harm for town to simply chill for an hour and ask the people who are very likely to be town if Soap is a good shot. well it's a tricky situation I guess. Just think about it, the guy just claimed dayvig (which is the only mistake he did imo) so he had to shoot at some point, Sadly that point was day1. I wouldn't trust 3 guys who threaten to kill me, so he obviously was not going to listen to a thing you guys said. Probably the rest would have told him to not shoot so early. So he had to make that decision on his own. Why didn't he ask the rest then? I wanted him to shoot Drazerk, who I think is mafia.
So do you think he has a scum role that is compelled to claim what he did? If not, how do you propose he explains his protections daily and the fact he is still alive?
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Actually palmar did you ever say why you thought drazerk is mafia? I'll like to hear your thoughts on why he is
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Palmar why are you assuming anyone in their right mind would take you serious when at the time you were RNGing, trolling, and lieing?
It really bothers me that you would even suggest that your suggestion of draz was a real piece of input.
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On December 07 2011 00:29 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 00:20 Palmar wrote:On December 06 2011 23:27 Toadesstern wrote:On December 06 2011 23:19 Palmar wrote:
Why didn't you tell us before you shot Soap? There is literally no harm for town to simply chill for an hour and ask the people who are very likely to be town if Soap is a good shot. well it's a tricky situation I guess. Just think about it, the guy just claimed dayvig (which is the only mistake he did imo) so he had to shoot at some point, Sadly that point was day1. I wouldn't trust 3 guys who threaten to kill me, so he obviously was not going to listen to a thing you guys said. Probably the rest would have told him to not shoot so early. So he had to make that decision on his own. Why didn't he ask the rest then? I wanted him to shoot Drazerk, who I think is mafia. So do you think he has a scum role that is compelled to claim what he did? If not, how do you propose he explains his protections daily and the fact he is still alive?
I'll answer your question with two questions.
a) Would you shoot him if you were mafia?
b) How do you expect us to catch him lying about his protections? If he's scum, he already has all the information needed to misprotect every night, mafia can even leave someone who should be a "good" target alive and Drazerk can claim that protection. Even if Drazerk tells us who he's protecting right before day breaks it changes very little. The only roles that can in any way allow us to deduce anything about Drazerk's alignment are tracker and watcher. Not to mention I find the role very unconventional compared to other roles revealed this game (Town Jack, Town Floridian and two Vanilla Town)
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On December 07 2011 00:51 vaderseven wrote:
Palmar why are you assuming anyone in their right mind would take you serious when at the time you were RNGing, trolling, and lieing?
It really bothers me that you would even suggest that your suggestion of draz was a real piece of input.
Coming from someone who takes me seriously enough to roleclaim in panic and shoot the next lurker without any discussion, I find this question irrelevant.
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@syllogism: Do you not find it weird at all that both v7 and I claimed a simple name for our role, while Drazerk didn't?
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EPT
