EPTBecause I love small setups like this.
Mini Mafia X
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Because I love small setups like this. | ||
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Palmar
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Palmar
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##Vote Wherebugsgo | ||
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Palmar
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He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. | ||
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At the moment I'm not quite sure I want to lynch WBG, he seems reasonable. I also don't agree with the lynch on Hiro, but that's pending me actually reading everything in the thread. I'd rather no-lynch than lynch a townie, and I will press the issue. I made that promise to myself sometime during XLIV and I have followed through ever since, I will NOT vote on people I think are town, no matter the circumstances. So yeah, don't worry about it I will give you what you need before the day is over. | ||
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Palmar
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+ Show Spoiler + @WBG: I never said your town play was terrible, I said it was middle of the road. You haven't caught up with the pro town players, but you're still decent. I just used it to contrast it with the fact that you have very strong scum play. | ||
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Palmar
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I'll start. First up, I think it's very unlikely the new kid (jaybrundage) is scum. His random vote on Wherebugsgo seemed genuinely clueless enough and he's actually playing as if he has nothing to hide and no fear. I would very much oppose a lynch on that guy today. So, what do you think about him? Do you agree with my conclusion that he would be a terrible lynch today? You can then select the next person we talk about. | ||
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Palmar
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Of particular interest is his piece on Wherebugsgo: Wherebugsgo: This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player. This is one of the weakest accusations I have ever seen, it's almost as if he's really not trying to step on any toes, while spreading around a ton of mistrust by detracting players. He has also conveniently completely skipped me and you, which is of particular interest because we've played so many games with him that I would think he'd look at our performance early. I guess he can hide behind our lack of content. But yeah, I would be fine with lynching Wiggles today. | ||
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First off, we have to realize he's being aggressive and is spearheading a lynch. This is almost always a townie trait, since scum don't like being held accountable for mislynching, and I doubt he'd have the balls to bus this hard on day 1. We also know that when Meapak is scum he has a tendency to play very carefully, while this looks much more like his town play. He hands out insults and has no issues with taking a stance. Now is it possible this might be Meapak's new and improved scum play? Certainly. But that doesn't change the fact that my rule of thumb is to go with the most obvious answer in every case, and in this case the obvious solution is Meapak is town. prplhz is being very aggressive, but I know he's capable of that as scum. His scum play is surprisingly solid in general. But overall I think this is prplhz just being town and trying to be useful. He does seem to be genuinely frustrated at how this game started out, instead of the usually easy to find "feign frustration" thing mafia like to do. Errandor is probably the guy aside from Wiggles I'd be happy lynching. It's so weird to see his play until that huge post. It's filled with excuses and non-content. He made a post here where he lists up every single player in the game without really saying anything. It really does look like something that's thrown together to try and fit in. ---- Lol, I thought I posted this before lunch, sorry about the delay | ||
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Palmar
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On November 16 2011 21:08 Erandorr wrote: Wiggles was not EA in Chosmic Horror if I remember correctly. Since you guys are having fun talking about everyone in this game , what do you think àbout each other at this point? I would also like to point out that Hiro still is scummy. Sandro you said that Hiros posts are genuine but what do you think about his earlier posts. I specificly asked Hiro a question and his answer was In the same post he give us the usual game mechanics crap and repeats twice that he wants to "start the game on the right foot" This seemed wrong combined with the fact that when I asked him to answer my question, he still did not do it. If you want to start the game off right, I think most people would prefer actual discussion instead of posting about game mechanics. That says "Look I am trying" more than actually doing something. It still is possible that he actually thought that it was the best he could do and he is scummy as hell every game he is town, so it is not enough to warrant a lynch, but I still don't think you can say that he is doing fine at the moment. Of course he wasn't, he was scum. I never agreed with GM's theory that Wiggles was the EA (I even specifically pointed out that it was weird GM thought he could figure that out), but I did agree Wiggles was scum in that game. I don't want to lynch Hiro, I'd rather lynch you or Wiggles at this point. As for my thoughts about sandroba, this discussion is an excellent tool to find out if he's scum or not. Just the fact that he's actively part-taking in it looks pretty townie to me. | ||
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Palmar
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On November 16 2011 21:13 Erandorr wrote: Palmar are you serious and did you actually read what I wrote? The point I was trying to make at that point was that no discussion was going on and I gave a quick assesment on every player in the game to point out that with that kind of inactivity , we would lose the game. I was trying to get people out of their passsivity and start behaving like townies. Why would I write something like that to fill in? Because you're pointing out obvious things that everyone is fully aware of, while saying nothing. We can all count. We all know that half of town had few posts until then. What made you take upon the badge of a white knight to try and save town from inactivity? Remember, if you really want to spark discussion, all you have to do is to either come up with a plan, or to write a case on someone. Something you chose to ignore. You pointed out a problem without providing solution. I am, just as much as you, aware of how inactive town has been. Unlike you, I decided to actually do something about it instead of complain about it, and thus I had the idea of having a conversation with Sandroba. Of course I read what you wrote, you should know by now that I read very carefully what gets written (unless I'm scum, then I just write silly cases and hope people derp on them). I'm not going to convince you that you're scum, but I can at least try to get reads out of you if you aren't. Can you explain what your current thoughts are on lynching Mr. Wiggles? | ||
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Palmar
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Anyway, what do you think of lynching Wiggles prplhz? | ||
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On November 16 2011 22:14 prplhz wrote: A lynch is a lynch, you can't just blame atmospheric noise or quantum mechanics when you vote on somebody who flips town. Can you tell me why a random lynch would be good for town as opposed to a no lynch? I think Mr. Wiggles is the best lynch right now. He's actively been a lot more derpy than what should be expected from him. I'd like him to show up right now and start talking. If it isn't obvious by now, random lynching is actually kinda awesome in extended majority games, because it creates such a fuckton of discussion, both about whether or not it should be done, and then after the dice has been rolled whether or not we will actually go with the random lynch person. I suggest we try it at some point, but clearly this game won't be the game we try it on. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Mr. Wiggles | ||
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I still want to hear sandroba's thoughts on meapak. I don't like your response in general, I wonder how you would have posted if we didn't put any pressure on you, because it looks like you're actually pushing a lynch now, but I'm trying to figure out how you're pushing it. I guess I'll sit around a bit. I want more meapak and sandroba posts. Actually, I also want more WBG posts. | ||
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Palmar
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On November 17 2011 01:37 wherebugsgo wrote: H/o I read Wiggles's post but I don't have time to respond adequately ATM. Palmar if you'd like you can go ahead and ask me anything you'd like and I'll do my best to answer when I'm back. I have three questions, and hopefully you will be able to provide a good and detailed answer to each one. a) What do you think of Wiggles, do you agree he is a good lynch for today? b) What do you think of Meapak, he has very conflicting opinions about him. c) Do you still think Hiro is the best lynch we have today? | ||
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feel free to hammer wiggles. | ||
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In a 2 scum game I wouldn't expect scum to ever come to the defense of their partner, especially when their partner gets called out by both myself and sandroba, unless there is very obvious evidence the accused is town, it'd be damn near suicide to try to defend. Better let the accused fend for himself. Like I know I'd bus my partner so hard if he came under suspicion day 1. | ||
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Palmar
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On November 17 2011 10:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Wow, are you all actually going to go for a day 1 mislynch? Can anyone even tell me why they're voting for me? (And if you say my first post I'm going to be mad at you) I want to convince you guys that I'm town, and I'm trying to get you to vote for scum (Meapak), but you aren't giving me anything to argue against to change your minds. This is stupid. -_- You only chose to contribute to the game very late. Your initial plan for getting information, while not terrible, is something I would never expect someone as town to do, all you had to do was to build a case and run with it, but you chose the passive route over the active one. I don't agree with you at the moment about MZ, I do kinda share your thoughts about Errandor, but that's an issue for later. Your first post containing anything of value was only forced out of you after a wagon being established against you. Maybe you just had unfortunate timing, but nothing in that post did much to make me consider you being town. | ||
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Palmar
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On November 17 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: It wasn't forced out of me though, I was just being pressured so I posted what I was going to anyways in response to you guys. I posted during pretty much all the time periods I had available to me (Breakfast, Lunch, After school). Instead of forming a case around (what I believed) to be pretty bad information at that point, I decided to procure more information and go from there. It actually told me something useful about Meapak and Erandorr too, and I think it was a ton more valuable than the floundering from before. I couldn't draw anything from that. I feel like a lot of people are voting me just to avoid no-lynch, and because they're "fine with it", as they're not bothering to look at other people themselves. Besides me arguing against Meapak, and him pushing Hiro a little, this lynch is pretty much characterized by complacency.It's going over way too easily, and I don't get why no one sees this. Of course we see how easy the vote is, we're not retarded. That doesn't change the fact that having good reads is not the entire key to playing town, you also have to look town. Something I'm not seeing from you. However, I do know you're a smart player, so in case I am wrong about you, can you please do your best and post all the reads, thoughts and information you have just before the deadline. Having your reads could be valuable later on. Preferably you comment on everyone in the game, so we can at least understand what you were thinking on day 1. | ||
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It's not a stretch to think you hard-bussed wiggles immediately. | ||
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The only things you should've done differently are protecting me on n1. I disagree entirely with doc protects on meta, just protect whomever seems to be willing to put in time and is making sense. Everyone has good games and bad games, and I was feeling on my game for this one. But, protecting sandroba was not a terrible choice, definitely the second best. Secondly you should have claimed medic immediately at lylo. It didn't matter this game, but always claim immediately in lylo, there is no reason to hold it off. These are both very, very minor mistakes, and in both cases you did the next best thing. I'd actually say you played best town game of us all this game. I'm impressed. | ||
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On November 26 2011 23:03 Erandorr wrote: Very very well played by Bugs, Hiro lynch was retarded but still justifiable in my opinion, the jay lynch was just stupid. I should have forced an alternative, but honestly i was not 100 percent convinced that he is town at that point myself, even though I was against the lynch. WBG plays a great scum game. Giant walls of text that no one reads and also very importantly, people(me) underestimate his town play by a lot and actually think he could play this badly. Palmar, could you explain why you were so certain that bugs was scum? Irrelevant of later plays, I would have pushed for a WBG lynch on day 2, as can be seen in the observer topic. Thing is, WBG is now in a stage in mafia games, where he is considered good enough to be forced to make logical calls. His case against Hiro on day one was pretty bad, which is why I immediately dispelled it. I found wiggles more scummy and gave WBG the benefit of the doubt. This lead me to say something like "The only possible solutions to the puzzle are meapak and wbg". This was because I was already sure Hiro, Jay and Sandroba were town. Errandor could potentially have been troublesome. But WBG would be forced into pushing a lynch on him with me alive, severely limiting his options to make a convincing case. And again, I said WBG over meapak because of something I can't remember. I tend to pick up on tiny things (anyone remember where I correctly decided tnkted was town in cosmic horror because he posted "lol"?), and something meapak said, or the way he said it made me think "This guy is legit". So by elimination, I had to go with WBG as the final scum. But his scum play is still so good I can't be certain I'd have gotten him hanged properly. | ||
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