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On November 04 2011 11:44 Zona wrote: Voting System:
This game uses a Majority Multi-Lynch system. During the day, any player may vote for as many other players as he or she wishes. If at any point during the day over half of players alive are voting for a particular player, that player will be condemned to the lynch and will die at the end of that day. It is possible for zero, one, or multiple players to be lynched at the end of any particular day. If you believe you have identified a game breaking strategy due to this alternative lynch system, keep in mind that safeguards have been put in place to prevent degenerate strategies from succeeding for the town. There are hazards in store for the town that lynches too many players in a particular day.
Bleh no time
lied
##Signup
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lol @ images in a "no image" game
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On November 10 2011 10:10 redFF wrote: hey look i have a report button!
oh good fucking god
on an unrelated note, the top ad banner displayed "SMURFS! PLAY AS ONE NOW!" or something like that lolol
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On November 10 2011 11:19 sinani206 wrote: FUCK YEAH COUPLES THERAPY IS OVER
##Signup
I think you got ninjaed rofl
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Just as a heads up for everyone in the thread, I'm going to be pushing for redFF's lynch regardless of my alignment.
Aww yeah.
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On November 11 2011 08:20 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 07:59 wherebugsgo wrote: Just as a heads up for everyone in the thread, I'm going to be pushing for redFF's lynch regardless of my alignment.
Aww yeah. sore loser gonna be sore
hey man, I said I'd kill prpl last game.
Thing is, you guys killed him for me!
trololol
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You'll be fine.
Just stay active or I'll lynch you.
+ Show Spoiler +jk I'll probably try lynching you anyway
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Well prpl got lynched day 1 rofl
I was actually laughing about that the other day. Couldn't even shoot him!
Also we "bussedl" each other day 3 rofl
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HE EDITED HIS POST SHOOT HIM
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On November 11 2011 18:07 Palmar wrote: That's a good thing Greymist, means people are forced to read your stuff.
@DoctorHelvetica: Simply ignoring every post from WBG is a valid strategy. His reads as town are pretty much all over the place and his logic tends to be kinda weird, and he's actually really effective as a distracting scum, so you don't want to be listening to him anyway.
Palmar I thought you loved me
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This thread seems to be getting along pretty well!
Apologies for the inactivity on my part, I've been busy. However, I have a proposal.
We lynch at least two people today, preferably three. However, until the last 24-36 hours of the day only focus on one person at a time. This will help us become organized and use our number advantage. If one person is pushing multiple different wagons at once we get chaos. Chaos is not good. We need productive, organized discussion, and I think this is best served by everyone focusing on a single target until we have enough information and cases in the thread to begin consolidating on a final count of 2-3 targets.
On to asking questions/scumhunting!
On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote: Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby
Sorry prpl, I don't see why a lynch lurker policy is "extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons." Certainly lynch-all-lurkers is not as effective as lynch all liars, but using the multi-lynch system to threaten lurking players is a good way to separate the town lurkers from the scum. Townies will make an active effort to contribute when they realize that they are being deadweight. Scum will not.
For the most part, lurkers are incredibly difficult to read too. Players like Kenpachi and sinani could be of either alignment in any game they play in, and we can barely ever tell. In the end if half the scum left are lurkers we're basically just blindly voting into the pool and crossing our fingers for a scum lynch. If we get rid of the lurkers earlier, we don't have this problem.
Look at PYP:I. I know you were scum there, but in that game the biggest lurking scum all lived the longest, despite taking huge suspicions throughout the game. The good thing there was that there were so many scum that there was never a shortage of active scum, but in this game we don't have that many scum. There's only a handful, so if two or three of them lurk and we don't focus on lurkers we'll have some big problems in a couple of days.
On November 15 2011 17:46 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:43 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 17:36 prplhz wrote: Policy lynching is stupid stupid stupid and if we policy lynch ANYTHING it will ONLY help mafia. The day is 72 hours long and you have to post one every 24 hours so lurking should be somewhat dealt with that way. If we lynch lurky people they HAVE to be scummy too, you don't just lynch blindly into inactivity.
Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too.
I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons.
The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum.
##Vote Hiroruby Why do you disagree with Lynch all Liars? I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal.
Stop using TMMM as a reason why lynch all liars is bad.
Anyone who is suggesting that in this game is dead wrong. We lynch all liars. Period. If you lie, you die. The reason? Lying is incredibly unlikely to help town.
GM did not help town by lying. Had he not lied in TMMM there is a strong chance that situation wouldn't have occurred and the lynch would've proceeded more easily because of the PC check. Town actually chose the wrong option. Just because they won, doesn't make the decision correct.
With that said, as I was reading the thread I was suspicious of this guy: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=50717
because of how he reacted to the discussion. None of the opinions are concrete and he's just sliding by without saying anything. His posts are empty.
I know you're new, man, but if you're town you can't do this. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, but you need to begin contributing and posting more. I expect to see you build a case on someone and vote them, so we know your line of thought. Please provide something useful.
Also, we find scum by finding inconsistencies and agenda. If people say things that have mafia motivation, they need to die. LAL is one way we find and punish inconsistencies. It's actually a very effective deterrent of dumb play, and I would argue that it's far more useful in decreasing town lynches than actually finding scum, but often times that's exactly what we need to do; limiting the number of town lynched and maximizing the number of scum lynched is one and the same.
My focus for the day:
Chaoser
filter link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=41788&user=41788
Chaoser right now is all over the place. He is not fostering positive discussion. He just OMGUSed sinani, he is pushing three different people right now, and he is using very little reasoning for all of those votes.
Chaoser if you are town, you need to slow down and focus on one person so that your posts are more coherent and readable, or you need to provide more information about your vote targets. Right now you're being incredibly distracting, particularly as people have to keep asking you why you're voting the people you are voting. This OMGUS on sinani, for example:
On November 16 2011 09:15 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 09:07 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 09:06 Drazerk wrote:On November 16 2011 09:03 sinani206 wrote: wtf
##Vote: chaoser Your not going to lurk the first day, come out of no where and then vote chaoser without reason. FoS sinani206 His posts this game are nothing like what I've seem out of him before and even if I hadn't played with him before, the posts are straight up scummy. 1) Deal with my posts being different. This use of "your posts are different" meta is so stupid I'd gladly post completely differently every single game to kill it. Can't tell if you're mafia or stupid >_> Also while the manner in which I post is different, the reasoning behind my posts isn't, (XXXIX) 2) How are my posts "straight up scummy?" ##Vote: Sinani206I'm so happy I get to vote multiple people
If you can't tell if he's scum or dumb, why did you vote him? It makes no sense using your very own logic. If you can't tell someone's alignment, why would you vote them?
Then, your attacks on Zephirrd are really bad too. He's a new player, and most of what he's saying makes sense. That's better than a lot of other new players. You even admit to making cases "out of nothing" as an attempt to create reactions from other players. That's not a good way to play town and you know it. You should be posting a case on someone after you have subtly pushed them for a while, instead of voting them the instant you think they've said something scummy. That's not reliable.
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oh duh forgot the most important part:
##vote chaoser
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##Vote: chaoser
missing colon -_-
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Please elaborate how making cases out of nothing does anything to pressure scum?
As soon as you make a baseless case on a scummy or dummy townie they can begin fabricating analysis. In fact, you could lead the whole thread to believe your target is scum when there is no real reason for them to be scum in the first place.
I think we should approach this game more carefully. We have multiple lynches but we will be hurting ourselves if we end up lynching multiple townies instead of scum.
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On November 16 2011 11:39 GreYMisT wrote: WBG, you also said that we should lynch perferably 3 people today, but focus on only one target during the eairler portions. Don't you think its going to be difficult to decide when we have all decided to lynch someone, and then ignore everything they say while we work out who else to kill? While i feel the same that we should keep focused on one person per day, I think that it would better serve to keep the multi lynch in reserve unless we can all agree to use it.
Nah, remember I said we need to all focus on one person until 24-36 hours before lynch.
Then we start consolidating to get multiple targets. Basically, if one person is working on a case on one person and one person only, it's more effective than if that one person tries splitting their attention to watch four or five at once. It's just not effective.
If we all focus on one target each and then evaluate toward the end of the day, we can sift through the best cases and work on lynching those. However we need activity in the last 24 hours to make this viable, and we'll rack up a lot of posts. But it'll hopefully be the best way to find scum.
What I don't want people doing is what chaoser is doing; just going out there and throwing votes left and right without actually thinking about them. Sure, you can do it if you want, but it's not going to be pretty. The thread will be a mess and you'll have multiple people OMGUSing because they're taking votes.
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looool
I'm not saying focus on ONE target. I'm saying, each person focus on one target for now.
Unless you're sandro and you can peg the entire scumteam at once, it doesn't make much sense to be FoSing like 5 people at once.
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to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person.
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On November 16 2011 12:10 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +What I don't want people doing is what chaoser is doing; just going out there and throwing votes left and right without actually thinking about them. Sure, you can do it if you want, but it's not going to be pretty. The thread will be a mess and you'll have multiple people OMGUSing because they're taking votes. How does my doing something--->lead to everyone else doing the same thing? That's quite a logical leap The fact of the matter is the thread isn't going to be that messy as can be seen in a previous case where I did the same technique and in the end town gains from it.
I didn't suggest everyone would do it. I just said having multiple people do it would create a lot of chaos. How is that a logical leap?
I mean look at had happened already. People are OMGUSing you because you're voting them. It makes things way more complicated than they should be. We play mafia a certain way; we deal with one lynch at a time. This game should be no different IMO, we just in the end use the multilynch system to lynch two or three people.
If any of you played resurrection, you remember how that double lynch system worked? That's how I think it would be best if we play this.
Ultimately we'll need to vote second/third players, but 24-36 hours is more than enough to do that IMO.
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Lynching multiple people really is only viable early, unless we're sure we'll hit multiple scum and no town closer to LYLO.
We can potentially lynch 3 if we're confident today but I think a double lynch would be best.
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Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving.
For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him.
On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote: to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer?
No.
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we can expect hyshes to lurk, that says nothing about his alignment. Risk lurks pretty heavily too (in XLV he had like 2 posts per day)
I have no idea how Coag plays, but he's a well=known name around here.
At this moment in time we should be pressuring lurkers into responding but there's not a huge point in focusing on them. Many players like kenpachi routinely lurk day 1 and there's almost nothing you can do to change that other than simply killing them.
Of course, that's not feasible since trying to lynch 5-6 people would be really bad.
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Yep, I remember. I'm just saying that, since his meta is inconsistent, (and the sample size is tiny) it's not particularly telling of anything.
For now, he's just another lurker.
I forgot to address this following quote by chaoser. Let me do that now:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 09:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Please elaborate how making cases out of nothing does anything to pressure scum?
As soon as you make a baseless case on a scummy or dummy townie they can begin fabricating analysis. In fact, you could lead the whole thread to believe your target is scum when there is no real reason for them to be scum in the first place.
I think we should approach this game more carefully. We have multiple lynches but we will be hurting ourselves if we end up lynching multiple townies instead of scum. Show nested quote +As soon as you make a baseless case on a scummy or dummy townie they can begin fabricating analysis. In fact, you could lead the whole thread to believe your target is scum when there is no real reason for them to be scum in the first place. I didn't fabricate analysis though. Forumite built a shitty case on LSB out of nothing. The difference between him and I is that I didn't try to hide my case behind long paragraphs and shitty reasoning. I just went "lawl scum *vote*" But back onto the topic of pressuring: In XXXIX redtooth makes a bullshit case on Irish_Punk with no real reason and I followed up on his vote. There is no "leading the whole thread" in that game at all because the natural reaction to a bullshit vote is to go "wtf?", especially when clearly there was no real case in the first place. Who is going to be lead along by "lawl scum, *vote*" as the only reason for voting someone? No one, as was true in that game (people ended up voting Kurumi off 6 votes compared to the 2 on Irish) Anyway, due to the random no reasoning pressure, Irish overreacts and responds in a crazy manner. This then created discussion; At my expense though =[. More importantly, because of how he responded to the situation and how the rest of the players responded to his response of the situation, I was able to get a solid read on about half the thread and ended up pinning two other players as being mafia. My day two read/suspicious/vote was on amber was completely based around the fact that he was very flaky between voting Kurumi and being suspicious of Irish. Then I directed a vigi shot at GGQ due to how he handled the Amber lynch.
Alright...
First part:
On November 16 2011 10:40 chaoser wrote: I didn't fabricate analysis though. Forumite built a shitty case on LSB out of nothing. The difference between him and I is that I didn't try to hide my case behind long paragraphs and shitty reasoning. I just went "lawl scum *vote*"
I don't think I was quite clear; I meant that scum can take bad and unreasoned votes like yours on scummy townies and then fabricate a case or "analysis" afterward and it will be difficult to tell whether they are being genuine or not. They'll slip by, too, unless we are active about punishing them for it.
People voting others with relatively little, if any reason, is detrimental to town. We need to know why people are getting votes, otherwise nothing's stopping people from just casting one liner votes that don't further our purpose. We need information to work with, and even if you happen to vote scum, unless you have reasoning or unless you can create a reaction, they'll often just ignore the vote or be more wary and be less likely to slip.
Personally I prefer building at least a small case before voting, since gathering of information is so vital. If one thinks that someone is scum then by all means they need to get voted to see how they (and other players) react, but I don't feel that way about any of your votes. If you simply vote them as soon as you have the slightest suspicion, how are we going to better our own position and ensure that we are, indeed, lynching scum?
This is why things like read lists at this stage of the game are pointless. Simply disseminating that information, like haphazard voting, is an inefficient way to attack scum, IMO. They are forewarned of suspicion and thus will act differently because they are aware of the attention.
But back onto the topic of pressuring:
On November 16 2011 10:40 chaoser wrote: In XXXIX redtooth makes a bullshit case on Irish_Punk with no real reason and I followed up on his vote. There is no "leading the whole thread" in that game at all because the natural reaction to a bullshit vote is to go "wtf?", especially when clearly there was no real case in the first place. Who is going to be lead along by "lawl scum, *vote*" as the only reason for voting someone? No one, as was true in that game (people ended up voting Kurumi off 6 votes compared to the 2 on Irish)
Anyway, due to the random no reasoning pressure, Irish overreacts and responds in a crazy manner. This then created discussion; At my expense though =[. More importantly, because of how he responded to the situation and how the rest of the players responded to his response of the situation, I was able to get a solid read on about half the thread and ended up pinning two other players as being mafia. My day two read/suspicious/vote was on amber was completely based around the fact that he was very flaky between voting Kurumi and being suspicious of Irish.
Then I directed a vigi shot at GGQ due to how he handled the Amber lynch.
That's all wonderful, but honestly, who cares?
You know that someone like sinani is never going to respond if he gets voted. Even as town all he does is troll. So, if you expect some sort of reaction out of your target to be useful, I can guarantee you that good scum won't bite. They'll ignore your vote on them and they'll give you the same reaction you would expect out of a townie.
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On November 16 2011 18:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:The top part of my previous post was in response to Harbringer. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote: to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. We can't differentiate between lurkers too heavily based purely on meta. If someone is lurking and being useless, they should be a valid candidate for lynch, especially if they are good and should have known better. Killing someone that is renowned to be a good player sends out a stronger anti-lurker message, which is the whole point in doing it. This is why Coag is a great choice for lynch at the moment, as opposed to someone like Sinani. Giving people a free pass on reputation leads to stupid things like Palmar managing to win in LotR mafia as third party while basically not even trying. Speaking of Palmar: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=87086Useless mass of one liners.
So, leaving someone alive who has no potential to be of any use (sinani) is favorable to leaving someone alive who has great potential for use? (Coag)?
Either way if they're still useless by tomorrow they need to die. The difference between sinani and Palmar/Coag is that sinani never does anything, and Palmar/Coag are actually useful as town.
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My point is that you can't lynch all lurkers, and it's certainly optimal to lynch some over others.
I agree that history of lurking is no excuse for lurking, but then if we're going to actually lynch a lurker today we need to figure out which one that is.
The other thing I want to stress is that focusing on lurkers is going to distract us from the scum who aren't lurking. Hell, if we are fervent enough about punishing lurkers a lot of them will probably just become active and lose a lot of suspicion.
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On November 16 2011 18:48 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 16 2011 18:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:The top part of my previous post was in response to Harbringer. On November 16 2011 17:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Coag is also a pretty good player, so if he's scum, he's capable of lurking and surviving. For the same reason he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch because if he's not scum, then scum will want to shoot him. On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote:On November 16 2011 13:16 wherebugsgo wrote: to clarify again, each person go for whoever they think is scummiest. That doesn't mean all of us go for the same person. This is completely stupid because some people have more than one read at a time. Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? No. We can't differentiate between lurkers too heavily based purely on meta. If someone is lurking and being useless, they should be a valid candidate for lynch, especially if they are good and should have known better. Killing someone that is renowned to be a good player sends out a stronger anti-lurker message, which is the whole point in doing it. This is why Coag is a great choice for lynch at the moment, as opposed to someone like Sinani. Giving people a free pass on reputation leads to stupid things like Palmar managing to win in LotR mafia as third party while basically not even trying. Speaking of Palmar: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=87086Useless mass of one liners. So, leaving someone alive who has no potential to be of any use (sinani) is favorable to leaving someone alive who has great potential for use? (Coag)? Either way if they're still useless by tomorrow they need to die. The difference between sinani and Palmar/Coag is that sinani never does anything, and Palmar/Coag are actually useful as town. Are you saying that Coag is in absolutely no danger of being lynched even if he continues to lurk? That seems to defeat the point of threatening to lynch lurkers. By bringing up the good players as the best choices, we can get them to stop lurking day 1, and prove why they are indeed worth keeping. Add to that the mafia might choose to pick them off for being good in meta, not wanting them around to actually pick up their game. The whole point in lynching lurkers is to discourage other lurkers. What incentive do these 'good' people have to stop lurking if they know they are safe because other lurkers will die first?
I will not support a day 1 coag/palmar/whoever lynch unless they are actually doing things other than lurking that further a scum agenda.
This includes other lurkers as well. When the players are otherwise equivalent, if I have to I will support lynching players like sinani over Coag, on day 1 at least. It just doesn't make sense to lynch someone who is not consistently bad just because they aren't active. You lynch people if they are scum or if they are being detrimental to town. Merely lurking falls into neither of these categories, which is why we have to be careful of how we implement lurker lynching.
As I said earlier, if a player like Coag has done nothing by day 2 then that probably means we should get rid of them then. Until that time, other players take priority (for me) in the lurker lynch order.
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Palmar can you explain what you think of bum?
I see that you more or less agreed with my post about chaoser.
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Palmar can you answer my question please? You agree that chaoser is probably scum. Do you think the same of bum?
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Yeah, chaoser is scum. He called my vote OMGUS. He doesn't remember who he is voting for. Rofl. This is EXACTLY why people should be focusing on one or, at most, two targets.
Chaoser the difference between you and Coagulation is that you are not a lurker right now. You are scum.
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Oh my bad I missed what Greymist said. But the rest still stands ^^
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rofl @ people not understanding what LaL is, guess Ace was right.
Cyber you don't vote chaoser because of LaL. Chaoser has not yet been confirmed to lie. I really don't understand what your agenda is atm, and that's not good.
My best reads at this point of the game are chaoser/bum. I'm not going to bother voting Lanaia for at least a day or two, since I can't make head nor tail of what the anti-vote business was about.
Also Lanaia this is really bothering me, but for whatever reason I feel inclined to use female pronouns whenever I refer to you. It's completely irrelevant to the game but unless you have a preference I'm just going to keep calling you by your name lol.
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On November 17 2011 09:48 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 17 2011 09:42 chaoser wrote:On November 17 2011 09:41 DCLXVI wrote:On November 17 2011 09:32 chaoser wrote:On November 17 2011 09:28 DCLXVI wrote:really kenpachi? I don't know you but I didn't expect you to whine so much and give up. Even if the town is bad, you can at least try pointing out their errors instead of just bitching. @Zona can he be put on the banlist for this? I certainly don't want to play with him again: Play to win. Make your posts, and choose targets for your actions in order to help your team achieve its win condition. How can you say he didn't play to win? His case prompted a lot of discussion and activity. Get off your high horse; you're sure as hell not good enough to be bitching about Kenpachi "whining and giving up". since when is it a prerequisite to be good at this game to say that this means someone gave up? + Show Spoiler +On November 17 2011 06:41 Kenpachi wrote: lol town sucks On November 17 2011 06:44 Kenpachi wrote: alright, tell me. Where is this day going? its going to shit. you know why? you guys are lynching me. Fact: When town lynches a town Kenpachi, they lose. you know why? because town sucks.
Killing off inactives with lynches is just so bad. lrn2play On November 17 2011 06:48 Kenpachi wrote: im going to fucking shoot myself. Walrus and risk.nuke need more experience because this is ridiculous On November 17 2011 06:55 Kenpachi wrote: i can do better than that. you guys are just so demoralizing On November 17 2011 07:06 Kenpachi wrote: very well. gg i surrender you win mafia On November 17 2011 07:07 Kenpachi wrote: "gg i surrender" On November 17 2011 08:51 Kenpachi wrote: No i want to piss you all off On November 17 2011 08:57 Kenpachi wrote: ##Vote: Kenpachi Im the Doctor that can only protect greens. oh and i also function as a watcher.
On November 17 2011 08:58 Kenpachi wrote:now that i proved that you guys are indeed retards, i have no regrets. implies i have a role On November 17 2011 09:06 Kenpachi wrote: This is the first in a long time since i went defeatist. the first time, i was really bad. this time, you deserved the punishment. srs and it goes on.... Kenpachi is way better than you are. I don't think he's missed a single vigi shot at mafia and I'd sure as hell rather have him at end game than you. When he flips scum who was relying on his reputation, you'll be eating those words. Or you'll be eating your words when lanaia, me and kenpachi all flip town. WTF is the point of that post? I thought we already discussed the difference between a winning decision and a smart decision in Team Melee Mafia. I'd rather lynch hiroruby, a smart choice than kenpachi, a bad choice. Seriously go fuck yourself, I'm done playing TL mafia; after this game I'll be co-hosting/hosting only.
yo chaoser I realize you are mad, but if you are town please don't rage quit at this stage in the game.
I missed the whole kenpachi business, which is annoying me right now, but we need to find scum. You think bum is scum. Who is your best read? You have like five votes, only three of which I can remember. We need to consolidate on scum and it's easiest if we just stop screwing around and actually start focusing.
Stop this LaL and lynch lurkers business, it's clear more than half of you don't understand what they mean.
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##unvote chaoser ##vote Lemonwalrus
Reason:
On November 17 2011 09:24 Lemonwalrus wrote:Reasoning please? I've been toying with that vote since page 15 or so, but I'd like to hear why you did it.
On November 17 2011 09:54 Lemonwalrus wrote: ##Vote: bumatlarge Be the batman that this steamship deserves.
Sorry, but I can't let away with you calling out another player for an unreasoned vote and then pulling an unreasoned vote yourself.
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what the fuck half the people in this game are acting completely pants-on retarded.
Chaoser you spelled Palmar's name wrong. Your vote doesn't count.
Coag you can't vote yourself and your format is wrong. Please don't act dumb or we will be forced to kill you.
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*pants-on-head retarded
yeah I'm dumb too get over it
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please elaborate on why you think a self-contradiction doesn't constitute a reason to vote somebody.
Lemon wanted chaoser to provide reasons for voting, yet voted bumatlarge with no stated reason. Even now he deflects the question by saying he intended to vote that way before. That's fine, but that's not a reason. Intent and motivation are different things, and any person with the capability to understand the two definitions should know that.
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god damn chaoser ninja lol.
that was @ Kibibit
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On November 17 2011 10:35 Coagulation wrote: ##Vote Kenpachi LAL + hes pretty much distracting town completely. He needs to die for town to progress
Im not sure about chaoser yet but im gonna keep reading up on him and his accusers.
Also Im starting to see why everyone hates you wherebugsgo.
you're dumb, kenpachi has already been hammered.
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On November 17 2011 10:37 Lemonwalrus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:29 wherebugsgo wrote: please elaborate on why you think a self-contradiction doesn't constitute a reason to vote somebody.
Lemon wanted chaoser to provide reasons for voting, yet voted bumatlarge with no stated reason. Even now he deflects the question by saying he intended to vote that way before. That's fine, but that's not a reason. Intent and motivation are different things, and any person with the capability to understand the two definitions should know that. I wanted to hear why chaoser was voting bum because I too had suspicions about bum, and wanted to see if his were the same as mine. I posted with a reference to my reasoning which had been discussed openly on the preceding pages. Honestly I can't point to a specific post of bum to give you my reasoning because he hasn't been making them. That in itself is my reason for voting him when you take the fact that he usually is so outspoken into account. At least now he will have to respond if more people start voting him and we can get some sort of information out of him.
So...you're saying your reasoning is the same as chaoser's?
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On November 17 2011 10:45 Lemonwalrus wrote: Yes, pretty much.
In that case I think at least two of you, Coag, and chaoser are scum. I intended on pushing only one of you before but that's enough for me.
##vote chaoser ##vote coagulation
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Lemon's reason for voting you makes no sense lol
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Lemon can you explain why you are more concerned about bum "watching the thread go by" instead of Coag?
I don't see bum doing anything weird. Coag voted for someone who was already hammered.
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On November 17 2011 13:54 LSB wrote: Sorry guys I'm sick and sleep deprived and I have so much to do.
But a quick glance through. Before we lynch Lanaia, we should at least see how Kenpachi fllps. A lot of analysis has been "Kenpachi is scum so Lanaia is scum", yet we don't know 100% if Kenpachi is scum
##Vote: sinani206 Since in reality he hasn't said anything besides "xxx is obvscum"
LSB can you tell us all what you think of Coag and lemon?
I'd like to hear what you make of Coag's vote and his relative incompetence so far.
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Can someone explain to me how risk.nuke is confirmed town?
Didn't know you could be confirmed town on day 1...or hell, ever...
##unvote Lemonwalrus ##vote bumatlarge ##unvote Coagulation ##vote Drazerk
My vote is still on chaoser; bum said a very strange thing about Coagulation lurking as scum after I went to sleep, Drazerk has gone back to find the games where he handicapped town by his bad play in order to defend himself, and...yeah.
I unvoted Coagulation because of two posts he made after he realised his mistake. He said something only a couple others have realised; the current chaos in the thread and the massive amounts of vote splitting is hugely in favour of scum. As I said earlier we need to focus so that scum feel pressure, rather than go after 20 different targets and expect to actually gain something that way. He also seems more like a busy townie who doesn't have time to post tha scum with an agenda, so I'd like to stick to my original idea of killing him tomorrow if he doesn't do anything.
Lemon is suspicious because of the way he is sheeping chaoser, but that alone isn't enough to incriminate him. I'm going to reread the relevant pages several more times and see if anything pops out.
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I think Nisani should probably die at some point. Preferably tomorrow.
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Here's some of my thoughts:
1. Anyone who thinks Hiroruby is a good lynch for today probably has not properly read the posts he has made or the posts of the players who started the case on him.
2:
On November 18 2011 05:07 risk.nuke wrote: Wbg what do you think of Coagulation?
As I said on the last page (I think?) Coag originally looked pretty scummy to me because he was gone and he came back and voted an already dead player. He also has contributed almost nothing.
However, unlike the other lurkers he said something that rings very true; if there is chaos and disorganization in the thread, we cannot focus on who we should be lynching. The sources of this disorganization should be our focus. Currently, the biggest source is chaoser. After chaoser come players like Drazerk and bum. Bum isn't seeding much disorganization but he is slipping by while saying incredibly weird things. His post on coagulation was very scummy, for example.
3. There are a couple players who were earlier active and are now doing nothing. The biggest who comes to mind is LSB. We can't focus on him today though, just keep this in mind. Watch for these players, because scum will often disappear randomly and then reappear. Be wary when listening to these players, because if they have erratic activity patterns that probably means that they are pushing an agenda by staying away from the thread and then jumping in at key moments.
If such a player is gone and then enters the thread, look carefully at what that player is pushing. Look at who it might potentially cover up or bring attention away from. Do not ignore it.
On November 18 2011 05:00 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 04:58 wherebugsgo wrote: I think Nisani should probably die at some point. Preferably tomorrow. Why? and lets focus on today for now.
Read his posts, and look at when he enters the thread. His thoughts concern me, because I think almost all of them are wrong. What's weird is that he's voted Drazerk, which might suggest Drazerk isn't scum.
Indeed, look also at how he never substantiates any of his votes. He has a vote on Forumite, Palmar, Drazerk, and he had one on Kenpachi. None of these votes are substantiated and town Nisani usually tries to say something about a person before simply voting them. He also tries to get other people to agree with him and gets mad when people don't.
When I was scum in MLP, for example, he just tunneled me and refused to see anything else. He was right, and he kept providing reasons for me being scum. But, in this game, he's just floating by under the radar while adding to the mess by voting people for no reason.
We can't let people get away with that. We need to pressure them and ask them why they are doing that.
Unfortunately the best way to do that is to vote them. I don't intend to split my vote any further, so I cannot effectively pressure all of these people. The rest of you need to pick it up and do that.
IMO if we implement a policy tomorrow such that we limit the votes to two per person, we'll see less distraction and more cohesion. Indeed, if anyone begins to randomly vote without cause tomorrow I'm going to be incredibly suspicious. There is nothing more we can do today, since the day is almost over.
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The fact that we consider Kenpachi and Lanaia the "primary focus" is simply evidence that town is very disorganized.
Kenpachi has been lynched, now we move on. As has been stated multiple times, we must leave Lanaia to a later day because we need to see Kenpachi's flip. If kenpachi flips scum then we need to kill Lanaia tomorrow. That's all we can conclude about that. If Kenpachi flips town then we treat Lanaia like any other player, but simply one who made a mistake at a weird time of day.
The disorganization stems from the fact that people consider Hiroruby a good lynch today. People are voting with very minimal reasoning and generally bad logic. We're still talking about lynching lurkers when someone is already dead.
At this point a lurker lynch is a waste of a lynch, since we have at least 3 people who aren't lurking but are excellent lynches. Namely, chaoser, bum, Drazerk.
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Well technically Kenpachi isn't dead yet, but hammered.
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On November 18 2011 05:28 Nisani201 wrote: WBG you are so wrong... I provided a reason for every single one my votes.
Okay, I think I understand now.
On November 17 2011 08:55 Nisani201 wrote: Just read through the thread. A lot of shit is going down.
But most of it is irrelevant. Kenpachi is not irrelevant. He should die.
##Vote: Kenpachi
That's not a reason. "Kenpachi is irrelevant therefore he should die" is not a reason for him being scum.
On November 17 2011 10:02 Nisani201 wrote: Palmar needs to get lynched. His case against chaoser is stupid, and he has barely been doing anything throughout this game. His vote on Lanaia is also scummy.
##Vote: Palmar
That sounds like a reason, but actually it's just bull. Completely unsubstantiated.
On November 17 2011 02:16 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 00:55 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 00:53 Nisani201 wrote: OK, one bullshit case is bad enough. But two?
Enough with the FoS. Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite Which case is bullshit mr. Nisani201? Both of them are bullshit. First we have this case against LSB, which I already mentioned: Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote: come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. + Show Spoiler +Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once. And then we have this: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 22:48 Forumite wrote:On November 16 2011 22:09 xsksc wrote:On November 16 2011 21:42 Forumite wrote:On November 15 2011 14:13 xsksc wrote: This is my first proper mafia game, just finished a newbie mini-game the other day. GLHF Everyone!:D Just found this little gem. Looks like a typical newbie scumpost. His filter suggest the same. FoS: xsksc Sorry, what? I posted this before the game even got going, I was breaking the ice and being friendly, what is scummy about it? It IS my first real mafia game, I'm excited about it. Several others have said it's their first game too. Can you enlighten me, why do you think it's a newbie scumpost? No, the game had allready started. You confirmed getting your role first of all players, then when people got going with discussing policy, you dropped the above post. During 2 hours people had been talking about policy, and even dropped a few weird posts that have since been called out, so the game had definetly started. And about which part is scummy about it? Everything! You excuse yourself as a new player, thereby lowering our expectations on your contribution in the game, making way for future lurking. It´s an empty icebreaker, full of forced enthusiasm. The message of the post is "I´m trying to help but will probably fail". Is that the kind of player we are going to rely on in this game, or someone who will be left until the end because noone will bother to shoot him? He is pressuring them based on bullshit cases. ------------ In regards to chaoser, I don't think that Palmar's analysis has enough evidence to prove him guilty. Just because it's Palmar doesn't mean that we can't look at his analysees objectively.
When Palmar asked you "what case is bullshit" you just picked the two and said they're bullshit.
You didn't say why. You didn't point out anything that seemed fabricated. You just said they're bullshit. Real convincing, dude.
On November 18 2011 01:58 Nisani201 wrote: I just read through Drazerk's filter. He has been jumping on bandwagons and supporting bad lynches this whole game.
Seriously, why aren't more people voting for him?
##Vote: Drazerk
This one makes you a hypocrite, since you also voted Kenpachi.
The problem is that both you and Drazerk look terrible, and neither of you has amazing town play. Drazerk is straight up bad as town (no offense, Drazerk you defended yourself by saying that lol).
I'd rather vote you over Drazerk right now since you seem to be soft-defending chaoser at every turn, and I don't like chaoser right now.
So, you need to die.
##unvote Drazerk ##vote Nisani201
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As in, after the day is over...lol.
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On November 18 2011 08:03 Palmar wrote: Insanity laughs under pressure we're cracking Can't we give ourselves one more chance Why can't we give love that one more chance Why can't we give love give love give love give love give love give love give love give love give love 'Cause love's such an old fashioned word And love dares you to care for The people on the edge of the night And loves dares you to change our way of Caring about ourselves This is our last dance This is our last dance This is ourselves Under pressure
##Vote Bumatlarge ##Vote Nisani201 ##Vote chaoser ##Vote Lemonwalrus
##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation
I agree with every vote in this post.
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On November 18 2011 08:21 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 08:15 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 18 2011 08:03 Palmar wrote: Insanity laughs under pressure we're cracking Can't we give ourselves one more chance Why can't we give love that one more chance Why can't we give love give love give love give love give love give love give love give love give love 'Cause love's such an old fashioned word And love dares you to care for The people on the edge of the night And loves dares you to change our way of Caring about ourselves This is our last dance This is our last dance This is ourselves Under pressure
##Vote Bumatlarge ##Vote Nisani201 ##Vote chaoser ##Vote Lemonwalrus
##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation I agree with every vote in this post. Didn't you say we need to consolidate our votes and focus on one or two people though? Don't you feel like this is a bit much considering that?
I said we should consolidate till the end of the day; if you remember, I said in the last 24 hours we need to begin voting the most suspicious people.
The first half of day 1 was basically wasted, since no one built any cases. So now when we're trying to lynch several people we have no choice but to go after those who have seeded the most disorganization. Palmar and I focused on chaoser but that was basically pissed away by people continually calling the cases bad.
IMO Nisani and chaoser are pretty connected. Bum is incredibly scummy. Lemon is suspicious to me as well. Those are my top four suspicions as of now.
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Drazerk will make a better lynch tomorrow, once we see these flips.
Today, chaoser, nisani, and bum need to die. If any of those flip town then we need to heavily reconsider Drazerk+Coag.
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Nisani your defense is terrible and you are pushing bad lynches.
Notice how no one agrees with you, other than perhaps Drazerk? Yeah, that's cause you don't have a case on Forumite. Your vote on him is bad.
Drazerk is a bad lynch today too, for the simple reason that he's just been cocky. People are trying to use LaL to lynch him, which is honestly hilarious.
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On November 18 2011 08:30 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 08:29 wherebugsgo wrote: Drazerk will make a better lynch tomorrow, once we see these flips.
Today, chaoser, nisani, and bum need to die. If any of those flip town then we need to heavily reconsider Drazerk+Coag. Why is Coagulation suspicious again?
I'm not going to bother answering you anymore, since it's clear you're not reading the thread.
Consider yourself ignored.
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You're all going to completely ignore nisani's OMGUS on me? lololol
He's just flailing around at this point.
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On November 18 2011 09:35 Zephirdd wrote: As we approach the end of the day, I've decided to take a look at the top-voted person: sinani206.
There isn't much to say from him; he's being extremely unhelpful and difficult to read. If we are going for a second lynch today, either him or Drazerk would be the obvious choices; Drazerk mostly because I am interested on those "I'm unlynchable" claims.
Back to sinani, he isn't helping when pressured either: he is never defending himself; and that I dislike a lot.
##Vote: sinani206
Again, I'll possibly have very low activity on day 2 due to the MLG and the fact that I'll travel for a Barcraft \o/ I'll try to catch up when I'm back(hopefully at night 2), but I apologize in advance for my absence.
Cheers!
Reconsider your vote for a bit because sinani is always like that.
Look carefully at bum/chaoser/nisani201, specifically the last one.
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So?
We already lynched a lurker today. Leave sinani till tomorrow, he's not playing any different than he normally does as town. When he's scum he lurks so hardcore he doesn't even post.
It's funny you use the "he's not reading the thread" logic to further your case on sinani when you don't do the same with nisani. Matter of convenience, chaoser?
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Also I didn't ask anyone to lynch kenpachi. You derps did that by yourselves.
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On November 18 2011 10:24 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 10:23 wherebugsgo wrote: So?
We already lynched a lurker today. Leave sinani till tomorrow, he's not playing any different than he normally does as town. When he's scum he lurks so hardcore he doesn't even post.
It's funny you use the "he's not reading the thread" logic to further your case on sinani when you don't do the same with nisani. Matter of convenience, chaoser? wait what?
Let me be more clear for you.
You're saying sinani is not reading the thread, therefore he is scum.
Why is it that you are selectively using this logic, and not applying it to nisani?
Oh, right, cause you have an agenda.
Sinani is playing like he plays as town. You probably weren't paying attention in PYP, but when he's scum he's a grade of useless even below his current level of useless. If he flips scum I will be shocked.
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Chaoser don't be thick. You are good at this game, you should know by now that sinani being useless is nothing extraordinarily out of his normal meta. This game is about catching scum, not killing people who could in reality flip either alignment.
Sinani is not going to help us find scum if he's town, but that doesn't mean we should lynch him day 1. He's one of those players who's better off taking a vig shot. We need to catch SCUM in this thread. If "at worst" your target is a bad townie then you're probably not distinguishing the bad townies from the actual scum.
Now you admit that you haven't paid attention to nisani. If you are truly town, step up your play and stop selectively reading.
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prpl don't be dumb either, day ends in like five minutes. No one is going to lynch those last 3 today.
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On November 18 2011 10:54 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Chaoser don't be thick. You are good at this game, you should know by now that sinani being useless is nothing extraordinarily out of his normal meta. This game is about catching scum, not killing people who could in reality flip either alignment. You say this to me and yet excuse this exact reasoning used by many others to vote for kenpachi and myself such as palmar and cyber_cheese?
What are you talking about? One of Kenpachi/Lanaia pretty much needed to die. I was, for the most part, either asleep or at class when the Kenpachi/Lanaia stuff blew up. The Kenpachi vote was completely out of my control, there's no point in talking about it now. Not to mention, that issue is completely different. Sure, Kenpachi might make a good vig. That's on the assumption that he is a vig (he didn't claim).
In addition, Lanaia's anti-vote on him meant that we NEEDED to lynch one of them. There was no choice, we need the information. If one of them is scum the other is almost guaranteed to be scum, simply because an anti-vote on day 1 like that is incredibly scummy. Notice how Lanaia has had almost no thread presence since then. If kenpachi flips scum then this is probably why. She excused herself and said sorry and now has had no influence on town concerns at all.
I understand kenpachi was raging and if he was town that's probably why he's not here right now, but really? You can't compare the two.
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also people are voting you because you're completely distracting everyone. Your votes were all over the place at a time when we needed people to think clearly and post reasoned cases in the thread. You used some garbage reason of "oh I wanted reactions" for your one line votes. I don't buy that.
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Kenpachi (14): bumatlarge, DCLXVI, prplhz, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Lanaia (Anti-Vote), Palmar, GreYMisT, risk.nuke, Tyrran, Lemonwalrus, -Lanaia (Anti-Vote), Hiroruby, sinani206, Nisani201, Cyber_Cheese
sinani206 (14): chaoser, GreYMisT, Lanaia, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Cyber_Cheese, risk.nuke, LSB, Tyrran, Forumite, Lemonwalrus, Zephirdd, HarbingerOfDoom, hyshes
All of you who voted both of those players: fuck you.
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Kenpachi (14): bumatlarge, DCLXVI, prplhz, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Lanaia (Anti-Vote), Palmar, GreYMisT, risk.nuke, Tyrran, Lemonwalrus, -Lanaia (Anti-Vote), Hiroruby, sinani206, Nisani201, Cyber_Cheese
sinani206 (14): chaoser, GreYMisT, Lanaia, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Cyber_Cheese, risk.nuke, LSB, Tyrran, Forumite, Lemonwalrus, Zephirdd, HarbingerOfDoom, hyshes
All of you who voted both of those players: fuck you. EBWOP
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no, but I think you're pretty scummy too atm though.
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On November 18 2011 11:15 Nisani201 wrote: DCLXVI Drazerk Zephirdd GreYMisT risk.nuke Tyrran Lemonwalrus Cyber_Cheese
These people voted for both Kenpachi and sinani206.
There is 1-2 scum on this list. Drazerk is one of them
yay unsubstantiated assumptions.
I hope you die tomorrow, regardless of whether I live tonight or not.
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On November 18 2011 12:00 Forumite wrote: WBG, I´d take a look at players who were on only one of the lynches, players who posted that both were scummy, but only voted on one of them, players who had allready gotten one Townie killed and didn´t want to attract too much attention by voting on two. Players who hang back and blame others for the mislynches. Those who voted for both victims look bad, but I think they look like bad Townies. That´s my opinion at least, that Scum are the ones avoiding the second lynch. If they dared to lynch sinani, then it wouldn´t have taken so long to get those final votes.
This was exactly what I was thinking.
Mostly the singular early and late votes.
One of them is you though lolol
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It's alright, at this point I think you're more town than at least 6 other people. You haven't done anything overtly scummy and what you did is a mistake any townie could make.
We need to think about how we are going to approach tomorrow. I think we should consolidate for the first half of tomorrow. Let's focus and build cases on people. None of that "I'm going to randomly vote people to get reactions" business. In the second half we begin focusing on the best cases and voting those.
I will be very suspicious of anyone who decides to piss away tomorrow again the same way we did today. We cannot afford to lynch multiple townies, and we must lynch at least one of the people like Nisani who today did nothing but randomly voted people for no reason and seeded chaos in the thread.
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Drazerk is not as big a priority as Nisani or chaoser.
I would be okay with lynching him if it wasn't for the fact that other scummy players are fine with lynching him, which probably means he's not scum. On the other hand, nisani and chaoser have deliberately avoided mentioning each other. That's pretty strange.
Of course we can't make a connection until one of them flips. One of them needs to flip.
I hope the vigilantes do their job.
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On November 18 2011 16:03 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Started re-reading the thread, only had time to get to ~page 35, but I figured I'd leave my thoughts so far before I go for now. Upon re-reading I think Lemonwalrus and Cyber_Cheese need a closer looking at, and would encourage everyone to do so. I still don't like Drazerk, and he seems dead-set on convincing us he will be useless whether he is town or scum. Not sure how much effort should be spent on him, but I'd like him to end up dead sooner rather than later. I also don't like the looks of LSB too much, but he is currently exceeding 24 hours without posting, so I don't see the point of pursuing something there unless he comes back before getting mod-killed. Regarding Nisani, this is the only post of his I really dislike: Show nested quote +Just read through the thread. A lot of shit is going down.
But most of it is irrelevant. Kenpachi is not irrelevant. He should die.
##Vote: Kenpachi Other than that I don't see anything that makes me want to get my pitchfork out. I am undecided on WBG, Chaoser, and Palmar as of right now, but would not be surprised if one of the three is scum. However, I would be surprised if more than one of them is.
Outing to the whole thread who you're undecided on for no particular reason is completely useless and is actually probably detrimental.
Good scum will see that and jump all over it, using your indecisiveness to push their agenda without you even knowing they're modifying your opinions. This is particularly dangerous if a lot of people share your views and it is apparent to scum.
Instead, in order to give yourself better reads of people you find to be on the fence, make a case on someone and then watch your targets react to that case. Good townies deal on a need to know basis, and unless you think you're going to die there's no point in pushing all your reads into the thread all at once.
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On November 18 2011 17:32 LSB wrote:Palmar is MafiaIs working is magic :DAs I have repeated many many times, one of the hardest things to do in mafia is to make analysis against a townie. If your not going to do this you have to A) Lurk, B) Bandwagon C) Not say anything relevant Note what these three are? What you guys think are the biggest 'tells' in mafia. ^^ The biggest trap most mafia members fall into is that they force analysis, because they have to. They need to convince the town that a fellow townie is mafia. And in order to do this, they force analysis. There are a few characteristics of forced analysis 1) Warping people's words- it's much easier to argue against "I shot the sheriff" than "I protected the sheriff and that's why KP was lowered" 2) Making logical fallacies- These are unconscious. When you desperately attempt to prove someone to be mafia, you start making bad/erronious connections. 3) Go after easy targets- it's easy to hide amongst a crowd. This is not necessarily true for forced analysis. Thesis: Palmar's little insight rests solely on logical fallacies, which are made because he is forcing analysis. Therefore Palmar is mafia. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 21:49 Palmar wrote: First off, we should establish that chaoser is both analytical and critical as town. His play this game starkly contrasts that idea. He is throwing accusations and votes both left and right without actually doing much to back them up. Now, this leads us to think what would make chaoser throw his votes around like this.
The only sensible reason to do that as town is to apply pressure, but when you are the one being pressured it's actually not beneficial to do this, because no one is going to listen to you anyway. The optimal town play in this situation is to try as hard as you can to build reputation for people to listen to you for. However, chaoser seems not even slightly interested in raising his status in the game, feeling pretty comfortable being not listened to at all. Something only scum is interested in. First of all, this post contains two big logical fallacies. Metagaming and No True Scotsman 1) Metagaming- Remember, this game is played online. Unlike RL mafia, where 'tells' or 'nerves' get in the way, play style between town and mafia is very hard to distinguish. If you want to make comparisons it requires a lot of analysis and supporting claims. I cannot think of a way to be able to realistically call anyone's meta. Palmar is brushing over and claiming that chaoser is "analytical and critical as town" and never such as mafia. [spoiler]I'm not saying that metagaming is invalid, but what I am saying is that Palmar hasn't shown that this is Chaoser's true metagame. I've played with Chaoser many times and I highly doubt that this is anywhere close to Chaoser's true metagame[spoiler] 2)No True Scotsman Explination- Palmar is theorizing what optimal town play and blaming Chaoser for not following it. Noone does optimal town play. People have things called 'playstyles' and 'personalities' + Show Spoiler +If I did, I wouldn't be sick and I'd be spamming the thread Palmar actually explains No True Scotsman the best Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:51 Palmar wrote: Also, holy shit it really fucking bothers me that you guys dare complain about bad towns. Why am I not getting lynched? Why is WBG or Bum or Coag not getting lynched? It's got nothing to do with town, it's got everything to do with your own play. Man up and own your mistakes. We all fuck up. So he's being hypocritical right off the bat too Show nested quote +This one is particularly interesting. First off, we have to understand how sinani206 works to see if this is legit. Remember, sinani206 hasn't got the greatest track record as town or scum, but he does have his tells like everyone else. This little vote he placed on chaoser seems to be pretty genuine. Like he's not pro enough as scum to realize that doing something like that with his meta as scum is excellent play, and thus the simplest explanation is that sinani206 is town.
chaoser should have understood this, yet he directly OMGUS votes sinani206, even gloating about the fact he's voting multiple people. Again, Meta Fallocies, and a quick town tell on sinani who up to the point of Palmar's post did not post anything substantial. I don't know how Palmar can be 100% sure that Sinani is town but even if it is true (And we ignore the fact that Palmar is using s**y scumtells) it leads us to the next fallacy Anyone who Votes for a Town is Mafia- I hope I don't have to explain why this is wrong. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 22:23 chaoser wrote:On November 15 2011 13:29 Kenpachi wrote: real long day ok. hi i am Kenpachi and i am a Townie welcome to TL mafia to those who are just starting and i hope you have a good time here.
We are the 99% I am also green townie <3 LAL is stupid This is chaoser soft-claiming a power-role. No reason to do it unless you're scum. If you can't understand how he's soft-claiming a power role, well... you deserve to be punched. So yeah, let's kill that guy. Palmar is trying to analyze spam. This is going too far. If your trying to put words into someone's mouth and analyze spam you are forcing analysis. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 07:51 Palmar wrote: We're lynching Lanaia no matter what. What she did is extremely poor play on day 1. If you're gonna do something like that, why not take it up with town? You must've known the anti-vote would show up anyway, so you're basically outed as soon as yo use it.
Basically, that play is so bad for town that I see no reason to not lynch her.
As for Kenpachi, well, his sole defense i "town is bad" which is well... fair. But remember, if you are the one who doesn't manage to argue your way out of lynch, both as town and scum, you are actually the worst person of all those bads you're complaining about.
Without exception, the player who gets lynched day 1 is the worst player in the game. 1) No true Scottsman 2) His argument is essentially, Kenpachi is scum so Lania is scum. This is another fallocy, since at the time Kenpachi hasn't flipped. And that's why Palmar was so quick to push a day 1 lynch. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 20:13 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 19:55 Tyrran wrote: Ouch, Palmar post that he likes me, and i destroy him with my very next post. Sorry for that ^^'.
I still stand by my analysis tho. You actually made me reconsider the stance on Lanaia. I just posted a huge post to see you attacking me Oh looks like Palmar gets out once he realizes Lania is actually going to be lynched. What happened to 'sticking to your beliefs' and 'definatly going to lynch her' now TLDR: Palmar is mafia because his case on Chaoser was horrible and consisted only of logical fallacies.
LSB your activity levels concern me.
Why is Palmar scum for his analysis being bad, but chaoser is not because his analysis was even shittier?
Remember, chaoser was the biggest force driving people to vote sinani. People may not realize this, but he pretty much single handedly led town to lynch someone they shouldn't have been lynching. So why is it that you picked Palmar and not chaoser?
What makes chaoser's cases better than Palmar's?
Why are you not concerned about a player like Nisani, who has multiple shitty cases? Hardest part of playing scum is making cases, according to you. Yet, you're not focusing at all on the people who straight up failed to come up with cases, instead throwing their votes and then yelling over and over to get people to listen to them.
Sadly their voices were so loud that these sheep actually followed them.
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On November 18 2011 17:45 LSB wrote: I haven't analysed on Chaoser/Nisani yet so I can't give you a definite answer and will not comment on their play. But you must remember a few things
1) Lynches are more often than not Townie-Townie. Many games have been lost because Day 1 Mislynch, Day 2 Go after the person who pushed the Day 1 lynch, and hit a mislynch 2) Just because there are people who look like scum doesn't mean we should ignore Palmar. 3) I didn't say that Palmar's analysis is bad. I said his analysis is forced. There is a crucial difference.
You say it's forced but you don't really show how.
How much have you played with Palmar in the past?
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I mean honestly, you say forced analysis uses bad logic. By definition, so does bad analysis.
Your entire argument about Palmar can't discern bad analysis from forced analysis, yet you say there's some sort of crucial difference.
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On November 18 2011 18:21 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 18:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 18 2011 17:45 LSB wrote: I haven't analysed on Chaoser/Nisani yet so I can't give you a definite answer and will not comment on their play. But you must remember a few things
1) Lynches are more often than not Townie-Townie. Many games have been lost because Day 1 Mislynch, Day 2 Go after the person who pushed the Day 1 lynch, and hit a mislynch 2) Just because there are people who look like scum doesn't mean we should ignore Palmar. 3) I didn't say that Palmar's analysis is bad. I said his analysis is forced. There is a crucial difference. You say it's forced but you don't really show how. x.x Read the first few paragraphs again... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252145
Guess you didn't understand my post, did you?
1) Warping people's words- it's much easier to argue against "I shot the sheriff" than "I protected the sheriff and that's why KP was lowered" 2) Making logical fallacies- These are unconscious. When you desperately attempt to prove someone to be mafia, you start making bad/erronious connections. 3) Go after easy targets- it's easy to hide amongst a crowd. This is not necessarily true for forced analysis.
Thesis: Palmar's little insight rests solely on logical fallacies, which are made because he is forcing analysis. Therefore Palmar is mafia.
If Palmar's insights rest solely on logical fallacies, what's separating his so-called "forced" analysis from bad analysis?
You say there is a crucial difference, but have not shown it.
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Of course your analysis is with the janky stuff town came up with to lynch kenpachi. It is far more forced than you claim Palmar's analysis is.
Both the kenpachi lynch and the sinani lynch were horrible, yet you don't seem to realize your own mistake in voting sinani.
What I'm not understanding is why you're being so selective. I am not ignoring anything; Palmar was not using bad logic. I actually agree with his meta assessment of chaoser. You don't for whatever reason, so you're spinning that into bad logic. It's not bad logic at all. A player plays a certain way as a certain alignment. When you see them deviate strongly from that pattern you become suspicious. It's completely natural and a very effective way of catching scum. This is all Palmar is saying, and in this situation you are the one twisting things.
Second, Palmar does not utilize a no true Scotsman fallacy. Hell, I don't even know where you're getting that from. Palmar was dead correct on how townies should try to get their targets lynched. Playstyles might be different but chaoser as town is not completely haphazard and he does not vote people moronically. He uses logic and reasons out his votes. In this game all his votes have been complete trash.
You don't seem to understand the logical fallacy you're accusing Palmar of. It's actually quite funny.
Then you go on to claim that Palmar was 100% sure sinani was town. Again, this is based on meta, and anyone who voted sinani yesterday wasn't thinking. Which, by the way, includes you.
Any person who reasoned for more than five seconds would see that literally no one was defending sinani. It was the easiest bandwagon in the history of bandwagons. There was no backlash. The bandwagon was brainless. Sinani's meta did not fit. He never once said anything scummy. He was lynched entirely on him being bad and useless as town. AKA, on his meta.
You were one of those votes. Now you are the hypocrite.
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More precisely, on his meta fitting his town meta. Which is real funny, because in this game we try not to lynch townies.
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On November 19 2011 03:50 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Why is he active as soon as he dies?
He was active before he died too, you guys were just too dumb to see it. (well, by his standards) Hopefully he's learned his lesson, though.
We still need to hear from Coag. Apart from reading the thread for like 10 seconds and then making some reads he hasn't done anything. If this persists we need to consider killing him tomorrow.
On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this?
You should either reinforce your leaning read or just not post something like this at all. Do not ever say "only one of these two players could be scum" unless you want scum to come in and hammer that false dichotomy like there is no tomorrow.
We know nothing about their alignments until one of them flips.
Also, I disagree with you, chaoser is more likely to be scum. Far more likely, IMO.
On November 19 2011 02:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this? Knowing Palmar, he's already tried to bus his whole team, but Chaoser wouldn't have. If I'm not around tomorrow, keep in mind that starting all this 'people I think are town' during the night is painting targets for the mafia, and Palmar started it. I have a very busy weekend so my contributions will of a lower quality until Monday.
Both chaoser and Palmar are well known for bussing their teammates.
Palmar is also self-proclaimed to be terrible as scum. Chaoser is not bad at scum IMO but for me it's easy to tell when he is. His hyperaggressiveness in defending himself by continually berating Palmar is a scum defense of his he usually employs. He did it to me and Mig in PYP when I was on his back for being scummy.
Finally, use your brain. If Palmar wanted to paint targets for scum he'd do it in their QT. He wouldn't out to the entire thread who he think would make good doc prots. Most of his reads are fine, too.
On November 19 2011 02:38 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 01:08 xsksc wrote:On November 19 2011 00:30 risk.nuke wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 xsksc wrote: Well Palmar, here's my thoughts.
I think the Kenpachi/Sinani lynches were silly. The only real scum read I have right now is on Drazerk. I'm not sure about Chaoser, I don't know his meta so it's harder for me to form an opinion on his town play. There are a couple of others I'm undecided on.
People I think are town :
wherebugsgo palmar risk.nuke harbingerofdoom lanaia forumite
People I think are scum/I'm suspicious of :
prphlz chaoser drazerk lemonwalrus
That's my current opinions, I have nothing solid to go on with chaoser/prphlz/lemon though.
Also, I'm really surprised I made it onto your vig list. I actually made a case on someone and stuck with it, I didn't join those ridiculous bandwagons that got two of our blues killed day 1.
Okey I think I just specifically said I don't want to see lists without reasoning. So xsksc your next post better explain that list with arguments. Sure. People I think are town :wherebugsgo His posts seem very pro-town to me, he made a convincing case on chaoser, he didn't join the silly lynches. I don't think he's scum. palmarSame as wherebugsgo basically. I agree with most of his reads, he's made some pretty strong cases imo. His posts seem townie to me. risk.nukeI could definitely be wrong here, your agressiveness towards people I think are scummy makes you look town. However you voted in BOTH of the lynches, so I'm not too sure about you. harbingerofdoomAlready said it in my other post. He was pretty agressive to drazerk early on, before he got a lot of votes, and if I'm correct and drazerk is red, HoD looks pretty town to me. lanaiaI wasn't sure before kenpachi flipped, but I think she just made a mistake in revealing her role day 1. forumiteHe made some pretty weird cases early, I don't think scum would make such blatantly obvious attempts at starting a bandwagon, I think he was just trying to get information. He also seemed eager for a drazerk lynch, which makes me think he's town. I don't have solid cases on my scum list apart from Drazerk, and if you want to see my case on him just filter me. A lot of my list is just general vibes and feelings at the moment, some of the townies could be scum, and vice versa. Town reads don't really help us at all, What are your scum reads? If you think palmar is town, then do you agree with his case against chaoser? Similarly because you arediscounting LSB's arguments against palmar, do you think he is misguided? or is there something more sinister going on.
I'd like to hear your opinion, Grey, on who is most likely to be scum right now.
You made the mistake of being on both wagons yesterday, we can't afford things like that to happen again.
You could be scum for all we know, and I've been leaning town on you so far, but I want to see some well reasoned reads from you.
On November 19 2011 03:01 Drazerk wrote: People who I think are scum -
Lanaia Palmar Coagulation Nisani201 Forumite
Try to use your brain and tell me why Palmar+Nisani or Palmar+Lanaia doesn't work.
Just...really...wow.
On November 19 2011 04:19 DCLXVI wrote:Why don't I appear on any lists I would rather wait until morning to start discussing again so I can start throwing down votes, I trust the remaining blues to use their roles wisely.
If you're town and you think you have something valuable that needs to be said before day, then now is the time to do it (or 10 minutes before daybreak.)
However, I doubt there's anything like that after day 1.
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While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we?
Follow along with me, starting on page 58.
On November 18 2011 23:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her The fuck? How is Lanaia not new? She's played under 5 games here. The first time I played with her (Insane 2 mafia), she accidentally leaked that she was king and then died for it. She didn't do so well in the next normal game she played in either, posting this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204956¤tpage=54#1069and then getting replaced. So how is Lanaia not new again? And how does being not new or being new relate to whether someone is good or not? I started playing in like 2009 or so and I didn't get better than shit until recently in relative time. GM decided it was a good idea to fake claim medic on the night before LYLO and he's been here forever/played way more when compared to Lanaia. This is such bad logic of "she did something bad, she deserves to die" Oh and also: Show nested quote +We should be voting to lynch at least one person based on analysis, and that person should be chaoser. Show nested quote +my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. Show nested quote +I accuse chaoser of not playing optimally for being a vanilla town, and because that's his claim and his play doesn't match, therefore he must be scum You're on my dick for the whole day and when you decide it's time to direct blue roles you decide the best thing for me is: Show nested quote +If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser ??? Why didn't you put me in the: Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot. list?
Look at how chaoser makes a mountain out of a molehill. Palmar is saying that good players should not do pro-scum things as Lanaia has done, on the assumption that Lanaia is good/vet. This assumption apparently is wrong, since Lanaia is fairly new.
Chaoser attacks Palmar over this but doesn't attack his logic. Notice there is nothing in this post about how Palmar's logic is bad or how he is trying to make something up. This is because chaoser knows that he can't attack Palmar's logic, so he must resort to attacking Palmar on other grounds. Here he chooses a mistake (that pretty much anyone could make) and makes into something gigantically bad, something he tends to do as scum in order to make his accuser look bad.
In the second part of the post, look at his outrage over being classified as a check target instead of a vig target. Most vets play with the idea of vigging lurkier scum and getting the more active ones lynched, since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum.
When we lynch active scum, other scum are forced to discuss the lynch, which often incriminates them instead. When we vig active scum, the opposite effect is true; the guy dies, and we have no discussion about it. This is why it's almost always optimal to kill scummy lurkers or scum who will never get lynched. This is not true for chaoser; he can get lynched. It won't be easy, but that's because chaoser is good. In addition, it will hopefully be a big topic of discussion, as plenty of people will ask why or will demand to know how chaoser is scum.
On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. Now I don't think I am wrong, but I am playing to win, not playing to prove myself awesome.
You will not be useless if you're town, I trust that. So I see no reason you should be shot like any common scummy fucker, you deserve a trial and a lynch.
Look at Palmar's response to chaoser. Is it reasonable? Yes. Does it make sense? Yes.
Chaoser is mad because he's on the check list and not the vig list. Trust me, chaoser would have been mad regardless of what Palmar said. This is what chaoser does when people think he's scum. More often than not, if he tries to mischaracterize a post like this as scummy, chaoser is trying to manipulate town into seeing something that doesn't exist.
On November 18 2011 23:44 chaoser wrote: Since, according to you, I've been useless as well as scummy to boot
This is a mischaracterization, and it's really funny that chaoser is trying to say this. Chaoser has been scummy and loud; useless is a side effect of his loudness. People who get vigilante'd often aren't loud. There are some exceptions with day vigges, who often shoot in the middle of an argument, but night vig shots are generally reserved for scummy lurkers on the first couple days. (often n1 they don't shoot, too)
On November 18 2011 23:53 chaoser wrote: lol...so the reason you don't want me shot, even though you think i'm like 90% mafia is because you respect me...and thus I deserve a trial and lynch instead of a bullet?
On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol?
More mischaracterizations. It doesn't get better than this lol.
It's not about respect, it's about optimal play. Calling a vig shot on you is not optimal play. Calling a lynch on you is.
To all of you reading this; please let me know what kind of scum would actually want attention on themselves by calling for a lynch of someone instead of a vig shot. A vig shot is the easy way to kill someone. It takes a lot of effort to try to lynch someone. Would Palmar, who is self-proclaimed to be a lazy bastard as scum, really want to lynch chaoser if he was?
On November 19 2011 00:01 chaoser wrote: Cause I don't think I've ever seen someone say, hey I think you're scum! But I respect you so I want you to die by lynch instead of getting shot by vigi!
If someone thought someone else was mafia you 100% call to shoot the fuck out of them. Pretty sure most people will find this exchange we just had interesting though.
Yeah I find it interesting, because chaoser makes no distinction between a lynch and a vig shot, which is again a mischaracterization.
Keep 'em coming, chaoser.
On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote: Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch.
Actually people answered this about five hundred times, just chaoser keeps pretending like he never saw it.
Lanaia did something that was extremely pro-scum if one or both of them were scum. We needed to lynch one of them to deal with that, we chose kenpachi. Her reactions since then have been better and more pro-town.
What's funny is that if chaoser truly thought Lanaia made a town-mistake, why did he wait until now to post that she did a similar mistake in a previous game? If he was town and he had the full-interest of town at heart he wouldn't have made a half ass attempt to stop people from voting kenpachi. He would've disclosed all the relevant information and told everyone that this is something that Lanaia had done before. Instead, he waited till it was convenient for him to use the "Lanaia has done this before" card to accuse Palmar of being scum. That makes chaoser look pretty bad.
On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Show nested quote +Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) (Unvotes the guy?) Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Show nested quote +Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused
What?
Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk...
I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic.
Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later.
Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser.
On November 19 2011 00:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 18:56 Palmar wrote: Sinani206's play is so far from optimal for town that it's borderline disgusting, that doesn't change the fact I deduced he wasn't mafia and did not vote for him. I did not expect sinani206 to play well, he never does.
You didn't expect sinani to play well and yet you somehow expected Lanaia and Kenpachi to play well and because Lanaia made a mistake/didn't play well she needed to be lynched? Mind blown
lol.
I shouldn't have to say anything here, with everything that I've already said in mind, all of you should read these posts by chaoser and come to your own conclusions:
On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote: Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this. And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on.
+ Show Spoiler +pushing for a lynch doesn't deny someone the right to "show your true colors" because if you manage to prove yourself an asset to town you won't get lynched. Yay logic.
On November 19 2011 00:46 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:43 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote: Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this. And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on. yes, and if I had managed to convince enough people to lynch you, we'd have had great discussion about it on day 1, but you were never in enough danger for that to emerge. Are you being intentionally thick chaoser? I didn't want to lynch you with no discussion, I wanted people to read my arguments and agree with me. Maybe that'll happen on day 2. So you're saying your wanting to outright lynch me is needed to create "great discussion" and thus it was a ploy to make me "show my true colors". Then what was with saying coag would "show his true colors" and giving him a pass? Shouldn't you have also wanted to outright lynch him and then that would in turn create "great discussion" and make him show his "true colors"?
Compare these two responses, and look at who provides more information:
On November 19 2011 01:00 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:53 risk.nuke wrote: Palmar & Chaoser, what do you think of xsksc. null tell right now, he's been on Drazerk since the beginning of the game. A DT check on him would be nice but not needed, mafia always come out by end game (see LOTR)
On November 19 2011 01:06 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:53 risk.nuke wrote: Palmar & Chaoser, what do you think of xsksc. I already gave a little bit of insight into my thoughts on him in this post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12326737His opening post isn't terrible, although it is very generic. It doesn't add anything meaningful to the discussion, but I have seen townies act like this before. I would say this gives him a few scum points, but not too much. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:50 xsksc wrote:On November 15 2011 16:28 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
People should post opinions on 1) Tunneling people, 2) Use of the multilynch system and 3) The use of the multilynch system in regards to lurkers. 1) I'm assuming this means focusing solely on getting 1 person lynched? If it does, we obviously want to avoid that and keep an open mind. 2) I think the multi-lynch system looks really interesting, and could be a great help if we use it properly. If we have a couple of people who are posting suspiciously then we don't have to decide which one is scummier, because we're not limited to one lynch, we can judge them seperately and lynch them both (if it comes to that). 3) We shouldn't go overboard with the use of this on lurkers, maybe lynch 1 lurker a day with it, in addition to the people we think are scum. His case against Drazerk is very weak, and I find it interesting that he can have such a strong scumread on someone who has done so little in the game. He is basically accusing Drazerk of posting one-liners which is well.. correct. Does that have anything to do with Drazerk's alignment? I'm not sure it does. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12312721Yes Drazerk has acted like a complete idiot this game, but generally speaking it's more likely townies act like idiots. He keeps the pressure on Drazerk, which is also interesting, and doesn't really give much thought on anything else happening in the game. Again, the tunnelvision on one thing and one thing only can be attributed to both newbie town and scum. Forumite and I have both put on pressure on him, and he hasn't slipped in his defense yet, which gives him town points. I guess the verdict on him would have to be: Slightly scummy, but not conclusive.
Remember, scum don't like giving reads on people and the last thing they want to do is give town information, since mafia is a game about mafia starting with more information and town racing to catch up.
It's a game of attrition; if town can achieve the same level of information as mafia before they are outnumbered, town wins. If not, mafia wins. Always be wary of who is unwilling to disseminate information.
On November 19 2011 05:32 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Also, I disagree with you, chaoser is more likely to be scum. Far more likely, IMO. Calling out to all vigis, if you want to shoot me, I'm perfectly cool with that. When I flip townie, ask yourself why Palmar thought I was 90% scum but still decided I should be checked and not shot. Even after a full 70+ hours of pushing for my lynch and trying to make a case (a ludicrous one) against me. And when asked about why he wanted a check on me instead of a shot, merely said "I respect you and want you to be given a trial and lynched over being shot". Cause clearly if I was mafia, giving me another day to muck my influence around and cause a mess in thread if I wanted to, is totally an ok thing according to him. If you go read my exchanges with him you'll clearly see he's pushing an agenda.
lol.
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On November 19 2011 05:28 GreYMisT wrote:@Wherebugsgo (not quoting for the sake of readability) With the two people I voted for flipping town, I have to reevaluate a lot of my thoughts, but what I do want to call everyone's attention to is prplhz. Some of us voiced our suspicions of him during the day, but I would like to bring them to light once again. 1st off over half of his posts focus on lurkers, well beyond the time the discussion should have been over with. Like I said earlier these posts are very easy to do as mafia, so while it is not a "scumtell" persay, it definatly raises a red flag in my book. I decided to keep my eye on him, and this is what I saw. His reason to vote kenpachi: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote: Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too
##Vote Kenpachi And his subsequent votes later in the day. + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 23:52 prplhz wrote: I AM GOING TO VOTE FOR DRAZERK BECAUSE HE IS SCUM
##Vote Drazerk On November 17 2011 00:12 prplhz wrote: NO CASE NEEDED DRAZERK IS SCUM On November 17 2011 11:18 prplhz wrote: START VOTING DRAZERK HIRORUBY AND CYBER_CHEESE
STOP VOTING LANAIA AND CHAOSER
##Vote Cyber_Cheese
ALSO WTF ABOUT KENPACHI GG SON SORRY FOR MY VOTE On November 18 2011 10:53 prplhz wrote: ##Vote bumatlarge
oh my god you suck
MORE PEOPLE ON DRAZERK, HIRORUBY, AND CYBER_CHEESE
LESS PEOPLE ON SINANI206
THANK YOU i dont know if this is his attempt to appear as an aggressive townie, or if this is just him being bad, but If he doesnt shape up when the night ends he has my vote.
yeah at the moment I'm wary of prpl as well. There are bigger fish to fry though, for the most part we can just ignore him. He has no influence on town and if he is town (which is certainly possible) we just ignore him till he gets fed up of it and starts contributing.
You can go ahead and vote him if you'd like tomorrow. I personally will not focus on him because there is nothing to focus on. I'd prefer that players choose more influential players and focus on analyzing them instead. We need to consider players who will generate more discussion, such as chaoser, LSB, and bumatlarge, all of whom I think at this point are likely to be scum. Once the last part of the day starts coming around we can begin consolidating votes on the best candidates.
Nisani is a good vig shot tonight and LSB/chaoser/bum are all good DT checks.
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lol.
Ignoring prpl for now, who would you push as scum tomorrow?
Who are you interested in analyzing and looking more into?
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On November 19 2011 05:55 Nisani201 wrote: Why are you calling for a vig shot on me when you just said in your last post that it's better to get lynched so we can get discussion?
I read this post and laughed. I'll respond to it, I guess.
No one cares if you get lynched. You're also mountains of useless as town, so honestly if we try pushing your lynch and you don't contribute to finding scum then we still don't know your alignment.
Chaoser is the opposite. People will care if we start pushing his lynch, and as town he is useful. Thus, if he actually is town he will hopefully contribute to us finding scum. If chaoser is scum we'll get good reactions out of other scum too.
If you're scum, you're easy as hell to bus. If I were scum, for example, I'd bus the fuck out of you as soon as you had suspicion. You're more of a liability to your team than a benefit. That makes you a better vig target than a lynch target, since the discussion created in your wake will be completely useless.
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On November 19 2011 06:01 chaoser wrote:Here's a transcript of our hole conversation for anyone that wants to read + Show Spoiler [Palmar 1] +On November 18 2011 23:03 Palmar wrote: @risk.nuke:
Expecting town to stop playing like shit is pretty futile. Did you read sinani206's role? He could easily have claimed that and then stopped actions for one night to prove that at least he was telling the truth about his role. However, sinani206 doesn't actually want to win as town, so he chooses to troll instead.
Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her.
Still, there is a marked difference between the apathy of Sinani206 and for example the aggressive uselessness of Nisani201, which is why I concluded the former wasn't mafia, and the latter was.
As for townies, any medics should be protecting into this group of players:
Forumite Tyrren risk.nuke Palmar Wherebugsgo
If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser Lemonwalrus Greymist Bumatlarge Zephirdd
If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc
etc etc
Yes, i'm directing blues, what about it bitches?
+ Show Spoiler [Chaoser 1] +On November 18 2011 23:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Another example is Lanaia, she's not new to mafia, and anyone who gives the issue half a thought should understand why what she did was bad. That didn't stop her The fuck? How is Lanaia not new? She's played under 5 games here. The first time I played with her (Insane 2 mafia), she accidentally leaked that she was king and then died for it. She didn't do so well in the next normal game she played in either, posting this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204956¤tpage=54#1069and then getting replaced. So how is Lanaia not new again? And how does being not new or being new relate to whether someone is good or not? I started playing in like 2009 or so and I didn't get better than shit until recently in relative time. GM decided it was a good idea to fake claim medic on the night before LYLO and he's been here forever/played way more when compared to Lanaia. This is such bad logic of "she did something bad, she deserves to die" Oh and also: Show nested quote +We should be voting to lynch at least one person based on analysis, and that person should be chaoser. Show nested quote +my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. Show nested quote +I accuse chaoser of not playing optimally for being a vanilla town, and because that's his claim and his play doesn't match, therefore he must be scum You're on my dick for the whole day and when you decide it's time to direct blue roles you decide the best thing for me is: Show nested quote +If we have investigative roles, we should be checking into this group of players
chaoser ??? Why didn't you put me in the: Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot. list? On November 18 2011 23:44 chaoser wrote: Since, according to you, I've been useless as well as scummy to boot + Show Spoiler [Palmar 2] +On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. Now I don't think I am wrong, but I am playing to win, not playing to prove myself awesome.
You will not be useless if you're town, I trust that. So I see no reason you should be shot like any common scummy fucker, you deserve a trial and a lynch. In palmar 2 he actually admits to LSB's point against him that it's all based on his belief that I'm "good at mafia" and currently he doesn't think I am being good. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 2] +On November 18 2011 23:53 chaoser wrote: lol...so the reason you don't want me shot, even though you think i'm like 90% mafia is because you respect me...and thus I deserve a trial and lynch instead of a bullet? + Show Spoiler [Palmar 3] +On November 18 2011 23:56 Palmar wrote: yah, do you have a problem with that?
Like, I'm almost just as certain that nisani201 is scum, and I don't care if some hero of the town shoots him and leaves him dead in a ditch, he's not going to be useful anyway. Even if he's town nothing of value was lost. On November 18 2011 23:58 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol? The case does of course have weight in it, but yes, if someone else had done exactly what you did I may have drawn a different conclusion. Why do you care so much? + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 3] +On November 18 2011 23:55 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Because chaoser, believe it or not, my entire case against you is based on the assumption that you're very good at mafia, I said right at the start of the game that you are a top 5 player in this game. If I happen to be wrong, I would like to minimize the damage town takes from me being wrong. So you're saying your case has no weight in it at all since it's entirely based on the fact that in your mind I'm not playing "good" (I think you mean well). And was that a backhanded insult lol? On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote: Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch. + Show Spoiler [Palmar 4] +On November 19 2011 00:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:05 chaoser wrote: Oh also, you never answered my question about why you thought kenpachi was a good lynch but sinani wasn't an equally good lynch. Cause I'm awesome, also, as risk.nuke pointed out, lynching Kenpachi was a good way of handling the Lanaia/Kenpachi situation. sinani206 didn't look like scum, I said it in the the thread that the easiest explanation was that he was town. Of course town went ahead and lynched him anyway, but hey... that's what towns tend to do. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 4] +On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Show nested quote +Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) (Unvotes the guy?) Show nested quote +If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Show nested quote +Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused + Show Spoiler [Palmar 5] +On November 19 2011 00:18 Palmar wrote: Accusing me of changing my mind?
And what are you implying with "doesn't do it"? I forgot to write an analysis on Tyrran, but I later delivered (and was pleasantly surprised by what I found).
Stop posting this bullshit, I'm trying to read through everyone's filter. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 5] +On November 19 2011 00:21 chaoser wrote: pst, btw, if you really thought I was scum and wanted me dead for it, you'd shoot me cause clearly, going by my vote numbers on day 1, I'm nowhere close to being suspected as scum. So if I'm actually as good a player as you say I am, surely if I was mafia I could avoid being lynched for a few more days while "mucking things up" as you say I've been doing day one. Why allow me that chance when you could have just asked for someone to shoot me?
TL,DR: If I'm scum then surely allowing me a chance to "stand trial and be lynched" would be more trouble and more of a mess for town than just asking a vigi to shoot me. So why are you doing that? + Show Spoiler [Palmar 6] +On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote: Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 6] +On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote: Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? On November 19 2011 00:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 18:56 Palmar wrote: Sinani206's play is so far from optimal for town that it's borderline disgusting, that doesn't change the fact I deduced he wasn't mafia and did not vote for him. I did not expect sinani206 to play well, he never does.
You didn't expect sinani to play well and yet you somehow expected Lanaia and Kenpachi to play well and because Lanaia made a mistake/didn't play well she needed to be lynched? Mind blown On November 19 2011 00:28 chaoser wrote:Why are you afraid of the pressure Palmar? I'm just trying to be a good player like you said I was + Show Spoiler [Palmar 7] +On November 19 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 00:25 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 00:23 Palmar wrote: Cause I'm only 90% confident in my reads, like, I know I'm on something like a 8-9 game streak of pushing mafia as day 1 lynch when I'm town, but that doesn't give me the right to be cocky or arrogant about it. Now go read the rest of the game, you're getting boring. wow...I didn't realize being 90% confident in your reads would still mean you doubt them so much that you'd want someone to be investigated instead of killed on the spot. So that must mean you're more then 90% confident that Drazerk and such are mafia? Since you asked for them to be shot? Please stop the ridiculousness already. You are active and smart enough to be properly interrogated, you're going to provide cases and you will show your true colors. Shitty people will probably just respond with oneliners and useless stuff, so they're better dealt with by vigilantes. You know this. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 7] +On November 19 2011 00:34 chaoser wrote: And yet on day one you wanted to outright lynch me and to deny me the chance to "show my true colors" while coag gets a pass because he would "show his true colors" as the game went on. + Show Spoiler [Palmer 8] +On November 19 2011 00:43 Palmar wrote: yes, and if I had managed to convince enough people to lynch you, we'd have had great discussion about it on day 1, but you were never in enough danger for that to emerge. Are you being intentionally thick chaoser? I didn't want to lynch you with no discussion, I wanted people to read my arguments and agree with me. Maybe that'll happen on day 2. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser 8] +On November 19 2011 00:46 chaoser wrote: So you're saying your wanting to outright lynch me is needed to create "great discussion" and thus it was a ploy to make me "show my true colors". Then what was with saying coag would "show his true colors" and giving him a pass? Shouldn't you have also wanted to outright lynch him and then that would in turn create "great discussion" and make him show his "true colors"? + Show Spoiler [Palmar 9] +On November 19 2011 00:50 Palmar wrote: Whatever, I'm going to ignore you for now.
lol.
he currently thinks you're not being good as town.
If you're scum you're not playing so bad, half the town doesn't suspect you yet.
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On November 19 2011 06:03 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 05:53 wherebugsgo wrote: lol.
Ignoring prpl for now, who would you push as scum tomorrow?
Who are you interested in analyzing and looking more into? Aside from prpl I would like to take a more in depth look at Bumatlarge. I felt like earlier forumite made a good point about scum probally only wanting to be on one of the lynches, and I feel kenpachi's lynch is where we are most likely to find them if what he said is true. Bum was on the kenpachi wagon, however very close to the end of the day (10 minuteish remaining) he was saying he was unsure about pushing sinani and he wanted to look more into it. While that is fine earlier on with 10 mintues left there really is no time for such delays. If he was scum that would have been the perfect way for him to distance himself from someone he knew would flip town.
Right, Nisani did something very similar with Kenpachi. He kinda went "wait can I unvote him?" as soon as Kenpachi got hammered.
I wouldn't be terribly shocked if all three of nisani+bum+chaoser are scum, their personal interactions are quite sparse.
Chaoser what do you think of Nisani?
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On November 19 2011 06:07 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Chaoser attacks Palmar over this but doesn't attack his logic. Notice there is nothing in this post about how Palmar's logic is bad or how he is trying to make something up. This is because chaoser knows that he can't attack Palmar's logic, so he must resort to attacking Palmar on other grounds. Here he chooses a mistake (that pretty much anyone could make) and makes into something gigantically bad, something he tends to do as scum in order to make his accuser look bad.
In the second part of the post, look at his outrage over being classified as a check target instead of a vig target. Most vets play with the idea of vigging lurkier scum and getting the more active ones lynched, since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum.
When we lynch active scum, other scum are forced to discuss the lynch, which often incriminates them instead. When we vig active scum, the opposite effect is true; the guy dies, and we have no discussion about it. This is why it's almost always optimal to kill scummy lurkers or scum who will never get lynched. This is not true for chaoser; he can get lynched. It won't be easy, but that's because chaoser is good. In addition, it will hopefully be a big topic of discussion, as plenty of people will ask why or will demand to know how chaoser is scum. Wronggg. I shot the fuck out of Radfield. People shoot the fuck out of vet players all the time because it's easier to shoot them than have to try to convince a whole town with mafia included in them to lynch a vet player. I want you to give me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where when mafia was suspected, instead of shooting them at night, they were let free to somehow allow for their fellow mafia members to incriminate themselves the next day. Oh wait, that's right, YOU CAN'T. And are you kidding me? Tiny mistake? The guy was on my ass all day trying to lynch me and all of a sudden he's calling for a check? Thanks for admitting it was a mistake on his part though. Oh, and I'm not attacking his logic cause 1) LSB did a great job and 2) Palmar had no logic
Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield?
Why are you using selective evidence to further your case? It might be easier for scum to shoot people than lynch them, but town cannot rely on vigilantes to do our job of killing scum. You actually start with the assumption that town have no blues. In this case this whole discussion is pointless, since if we don't have vigilantes you're just moaning about some completely irrelevant issue about why you should be lynched instead of vigged.
[quote] [quote]since this creates bigger discussion and adds pressure to the other scum. [/quote]
Sure.
XLIV. Town vig didn't shoot Mig, we got a lot of discussion on day 2 that painted Foolish as sure-town and I used the reactions in the thread to suspect BB/bumatlarge, whom I later correctly accused of being scum.
If Mig had been shot instead of lynched I probably wouldn't have seen the way BB/bum reacted to the lynch.
On n1 when you have multiple scum targets you can't shoot them all. Some are better off being shot, some are better off being lynched. So, you direct the vigilantes to target the ones who are probably never going to do anything during day, so trying to lynch them will create no forward movement, but need to die because of that reason.
You can change the movement of a lynch at any time. If we think you are town we can avoid making the mistake of lynching you. If you are town we cannot control the vigilante to not shoot you. We can influence the vig but once the vigilante decides (generally on his/her own accord) there's no turning back. That's why you want to get rid of useless people with vig shots, since they won't be missed even if they are somehow town.
However if we have a vig shoot you and you're actually town we lose a lot, because there is no discussion in that effort to kill you, and we lose a bunch of contribution time. With a lynch there's a full 72 hours where, if you are town, you can contribute to finding the scum we are missing.
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On November 19 2011 06:09 chaoser wrote: yawn, really WBG, you're pretty bad as mafia.
okay.
You can call me bad if you'd like, but it doesn't really further your argument.
On November 19 2011 06:13 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:00 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 05:55 Nisani201 wrote: Why are you calling for a vig shot on me when you just said in your last post that it's better to get lynched so we can get discussion? I read this post and laughed. I'll respond to it, I guess. No one cares if you get lynched. You're also mountains of useless as town, so honestly if we try pushing your lynch and you don't contribute to finding scum then we still don't know your alignment. Chaoser is the opposite. People will care if we start pushing his lynch, and as town he is useful. Thus, if he actually is town he will hopefully contribute to us finding scum. If chaoser is scum we'll get good reactions out of other scum too. If you're scum, you're easy as hell to bus. If I were scum, for example, I'd bus the fuck out of you as soon as you had suspicion. You're more of a liability to your team than a benefit. That makes you a better vig target than a lynch target, since the discussion created in your wake will be completely useless. So you're saying I should be vigged instead of a lurker? loooool
Oh, right, now I remember why I stopped bothering to respond to you.
I guess you're ignored again.
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On November 19 2011 06:21 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +XLIV. Town vig didn't shoot Mig, we got a lot of discussion on day 2 that painted Foolish as sure-town and I used the reactions in the thread to suspect BB/bumatlarge, whom I later correctly accused of being scum. So you're saying in that instance, the town vigi didn't shoot mig even though he knew mig was mafia? If I remember that game the only two vigi's were quicksilver (shot night 1) and Kurumi (he decided to kill the person he thought was mafia, Palmar Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 10:59 Kurumi wrote: Palmar was shot instead of supersoft. If he is not dead I was roleblocked.
In that case IIRC we were pretty lost, there were only a couple potential targets before day 3. In that case if there's only two people who you think are scum of course you're going to shoot one.
Not very often do you get a game like this where there are at least four people you think are scum. Hell, the vigilantes might not even be able to shoot night 1, this entire discussion could be pointless. But, since I think you/nisani/LSB/bum are probably scum, it's best if a vigilante shoots nisani. prpl and Drazerk wouldn't be bad vig shots either but nisani is the best.
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On November 19 2011 06:23 chaoser wrote: Remember, you're saying that in this instance Palmar's logic of me being 90% mafia in his head, but it being ok to just check me instead of shooting me, not even taking into account that perhaps I'm godfather and then you're ever more fucked, is good because it's a conscious decision to use me as "bait" to implicate my other mafia members via discussion.
Alright, I'm going to put this very bluntly for you.
If you are somehow town, stop thinking out of your ass and start doing some actual scumhunting.
Thank you.
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On November 19 2011 06:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield? Sandroba was busy making our claimed medic Motivation so that he could save twice later on. I shot Radfield because I thought he was the most scummy and I needed the game to be longer since I needed to find the ring. It either case I shot mafia. In XXXIX, as soon as we were 90% someone was mafia, Kenpachi made the shot as vigi.
Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes.
The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town.
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On November 19 2011 06:29 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:21 chaoser wrote:XLIV. Town vig didn't shoot Mig, we got a lot of discussion on day 2 that painted Foolish as sure-town and I used the reactions in the thread to suspect BB/bumatlarge, whom I later correctly accused of being scum. So you're saying in that instance, the town vigi didn't shoot mig even though he knew mig was mafia? If I remember that game the only two vigi's were quicksilver (shot night 1) and Kurumi (he decided to kill the person he thought was mafia, Palmar On August 25 2011 10:59 Kurumi wrote: Palmar was shot instead of supersoft. If he is not dead I was roleblocked. In that case IIRC we were pretty lost, there were only a couple potential targets before day 3. In that case if there's only two people who you think are scum of course you're going to shoot one. Not very often do you get a game like this where there are at least four people you think are scum. Hell, the vigilantes might not even be able to shoot night 1, this entire discussion could be pointless. But, since I think you/nisani/LSB/bum are probably scum, it's best if a vigilante shoots nisani. prpl and Drazerk wouldn't be bad vig shots either but nisani is the best. I was part of that game you know. You just tried to paint the town not shooting Mig as an action done on purpose which led to BB/bumatlarge suspicions when it wasn't. When it wasn't. Nice going.
I didn't say it was on purpose, I just said no vig shot BB/bum.
jesus christ, you're so thick.
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vigilantes, go ahead and shoot chaoser/nisani.
It's clear chaoser doesn't want to play, so even if he's somehow town I don't think anyone gives a shit if he dies.
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On November 19 2011 06:30 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:27 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:23 chaoser wrote: Remember, you're saying that in this instance Palmar's logic of me being 90% mafia in his head, but it being ok to just check me instead of shooting me, not even taking into account that perhaps I'm godfather and then you're ever more fucked, is good because it's a conscious decision to use me as "bait" to implicate my other mafia members via discussion. Alright, I'm going to put this very bluntly for you. If you are somehow town, stop thinking out of your ass and start doing some actual scumhunting.Thank you. Why, I AM doing scumhunting =] you and Palmar =] BTW, regardless of if town lynches me or not, you are TWO going to be lynched. I don't die, I will push your asses to be lynched to the wall I die, I flip green, your asses will be pushed to the wall to be lynched
I don't feel threatened by someone as dumb as you, sorry.
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On November 19 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:26 chaoser wrote:Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield? Sandroba was busy making our claimed medic Motivation so that he could save twice later on. I shot Radfield because I thought he was the most scummy and I needed the game to be longer since I needed to find the ring. It either case I shot mafia. In XXXIX, as soon as we were 90% someone was mafia, Kenpachi made the shot as vigi. Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes. The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town. So if this game isn't the same why did you try to use another game in the first place that wasn't the same to try to justify Palmar's "check chaoser, don't shoot him, he's mafia" logic?
says the guy who keeps naming other games in order to try and back up his own (lack of) logic.
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I mean really what can you expect, I'm not an encyclopedia of past games when I've only played like 6.
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On November 19 2011 06:34 chaoser wrote:really? you were pretty fucking scared of me in Team Melee Mafia. You even stated it. Show nested quote +although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) Hey, wait a minute...that kinda sounds like what you're trying to do right now...=]
no, actually, I'm just tired of dealing with you right now.
And tbh in TMM why do you think I pushed sandro's lynch over yours when I saw you suspected him? He was a much bigger threat than you, because you were dumb and thought he was scum. I knew I could get a mislynch on one of you but I had to play correctly in order to do it. Once I found out you were the doctor I continued my push but switched to sandro because I knew you were dumb enough to follow me.
On November 19 2011 06:38 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:26 chaoser wrote:Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield? Sandroba was busy making our claimed medic Motivation so that he could save twice later on. I shot Radfield because I thought he was the most scummy and I needed the game to be longer since I needed to find the ring. It either case I shot mafia. In XXXIX, as soon as we were 90% someone was mafia, Kenpachi made the shot as vigi. Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes. The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town. So if this game isn't the same why did you try to use another game in the first place that wasn't the same to try to justify Palmar's "check chaoser, don't shoot him, he's mafia" logic? says the guy who keeps naming other games in order to try and back up his own (lack of) logic. In those cases the logic from the other game translated to the situation at hand cause I actually remember those situation and how they played out. See, unlike you, I have a bit more of an encyclopedia mindset of mafia games seeing as how I worked on part of the library =]
Right. At no point did what you say have actual relevance to the game at hand.
On November 19 2011 06:39 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 05:43 wherebugsgo wrote:While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we? ....................................... On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote: I forgot Drazerk, will do now (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) ##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation (Unvotes the guy?) If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused What? Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk... I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic. Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later. Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser. "All of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk"? Are you deliberately lying in hope that no one will read all of this, or do you honestly believe that what Palmar said constitutes as analysis? To me analysis is detailed reasoning backed up with direct quotations, not "he is playing badly" or "he is useless and scummy" I am also not sure where you got this: (wbg) out of this: (palmar) Show nested quote +We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else.
Of course it was.
If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani.
Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope.
Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope.
So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is:
On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser.
I haven't seen such an easy day 1 lynch in a long time, probably since I gave myself away in XLV by incorrectly quoting a pm.
the chaoser lynch is only sensible.
On November 17 2011 02:13 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 01:54 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town Erm wait a second... XL - Only reason I didn't get lynched was because I spammed the thread with martyr posts SNMM4 - Read above but a lot worse WaW2 - LOL AA - Bad tunnel at wiggles proceeding by telling the SK that I am the medic proceeded to acting retarded Ressurection - Lurk day 1 - shot day 1 - resed by scum and everyone realizes it because I was looking so scummy XL3 - Active lurked into acting scummy to get the whole scum team in a single post LOTR - Saved the scum from a vigilante, proceeded to defend his third party claim, ROLE CLAIMED MEDIC TO SAVE SCUM, and proceeding to get role blocked / shot while spreading confusion through out the day. Hell If scum had kept me alive I would of protected Kita and let them win. Not sure what Drazerk your talking about to be honest because it's not me Are you actually defending yourself by claiming bad? How does that benefit town?
On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge.
You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis.
This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so.
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also I just showed you how Palmar didn't just go after chaoser. Chaoser was his main focus, but he also commented on nearly everything else that happened yesterday.
Similarly, that's what I did. Some players yesterday were so focused on one player they completely ignored everything else, like what chaoser was doing, what bum was doing, what LSB was doing, what Coag was doing, what Drazerk was doing, what Nisani was doing, and so on.
Most players were focused on one of Kenpachi/sinani/Drazerk and that was incredibly counter productive for us, because Drazerk could be of either alignment right now as well. That means there's a strong possibility we were just focusing on all townies and were being led in circles by scum.
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On November 19 2011 06:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 05:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 02:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this? Knowing Palmar, he's already tried to bus his whole team, but Chaoser wouldn't have. If I'm not around tomorrow, keep in mind that starting all this 'people I think are town' during the night is painting targets for the mafia, and Palmar started it. I have a very busy weekend so my contributions will of a lower quality until Monday. Both chaoser and Palmar are well known for bussing their teammates. Palmar is also self-proclaimed to be terrible as scum. Chaoser is not bad at scum IMO but for me it's easy to tell when he is. His hyperaggressiveness in defending himself by continually berating Palmar is a scum defense of his he usually employs. He did it to me and Mig in PYP when I was on his back for being scummy. Finally, use your brain. If Palmar wanted to paint targets for scum he'd do it in their QT. He wouldn't out to the entire thread who he think would make good doc prots. Most of his reads are fine, too. Why would he leave it in the QT? He can distract town from scumhunting, and make sure the mafia reads match up to ones from legitimate townies. As you've noticed, it's also a great way to try and direct the doctors protects, and therefore a great way to ensure all kp hits.
omg...
this is almost not worth responding to.
At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is mafia and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around.
Sure, he COULD be trying to direct doctors so that scum can all land their hits. But then why would he direct doctors to the most active and productive townies? Do you disagree with his calls?
If you disagree with his calls then perhaps there is an agenda. You want the most productive townies to survive. If they are not protected, then scum will shoot them at will. It's optimal for scum to shoot the best townies.
Otherwise, they'll be shooting into the pool of players who will have little influence on the lynch tomorrow, which is actually not optimal for them. Unless they have a strong reason to suspect someone is blue, there is no reason to not shoot the townies with the best reads and thread presence.
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On November 19 2011 06:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:34 chaoser wrote:really? you were pretty fucking scared of me in Team Melee Mafia. You even stated it. although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) Hey, wait a minute...that kinda sounds like what you're trying to do right now...=] no, actually, I'm just tired of dealing with you right now. And tbh in TMM why do you think I pushed sandro's lynch over yours when I saw you suspected him? He was a much bigger threat than you, because you were dumb and thought he was scum. I knew I could get a mislynch on one of you but I had to play correctly in order to do it. Once I found out you were the doctor I continued my push but switched to sandro because I knew you were dumb enough to follow me. On November 19 2011 06:38 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:26 chaoser wrote:Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield? Sandroba was busy making our claimed medic Motivation so that he could save twice later on. I shot Radfield because I thought he was the most scummy and I needed the game to be longer since I needed to find the ring. It either case I shot mafia. In XXXIX, as soon as we were 90% someone was mafia, Kenpachi made the shot as vigi. Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes. The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town. So if this game isn't the same why did you try to use another game in the first place that wasn't the same to try to justify Palmar's "check chaoser, don't shoot him, he's mafia" logic? says the guy who keeps naming other games in order to try and back up his own (lack of) logic. In those cases the logic from the other game translated to the situation at hand cause I actually remember those situation and how they played out. See, unlike you, I have a bit more of an encyclopedia mindset of mafia games seeing as how I worked on part of the library =] Right. At no point did what you say have actual relevance to the game at hand. On November 19 2011 06:39 DCLXVI wrote:On November 19 2011 05:43 wherebugsgo wrote:While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we? ....................................... On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote: I forgot Drazerk, will do now (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) ##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation (Unvotes the guy?) If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused What? Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk... I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic. Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later. Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser. "All of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk"? Are you deliberately lying in hope that no one will read all of this, or do you honestly believe that what Palmar said constitutes as analysis? To me analysis is detailed reasoning backed up with direct quotations, not "he is playing badly" or "he is useless and scummy" I am also not sure where you got this: (wbg) Saying that Palmar only went after [chaoser] is another mischaracterization out of this: (palmar) We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. Of course it was. If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani. Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope. Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope. So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser.
I haven't seen such an easy day 1 lynch in a long time, probably since I gave myself away in XLV by incorrectly quoting a pm.
the chaoser lynch is only sensible. On November 17 2011 02:13 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 01:54 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town Erm wait a second... XL - Only reason I didn't get lynched was because I spammed the thread with martyr posts SNMM4 - Read above but a lot worse WaW2 - LOL AA - Bad tunnel at wiggles proceeding by telling the SK that I am the medic proceeded to acting retarded Ressurection - Lurk day 1 - shot day 1 - resed by scum and everyone realizes it because I was looking so scummy XL3 - Active lurked into acting scummy to get the whole scum team in a single post LOTR - Saved the scum from a vigilante, proceeded to defend his third party claim, ROLE CLAIMED MEDIC TO SAVE SCUM, and proceeding to get role blocked / shot while spreading confusion through out the day. Hell If scum had kept me alive I would of protected Kita and let them win. Not sure what Drazerk your talking about to be honest because it's not me Are you actually defending yourself by claiming bad? How does that benefit town? On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis. This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so. And yet, oddly enough, Palmar took his vote off Drazerk.
yes, and so did I, because at the end of the day we were not sure if Drazerk was scum based on his behavior.
Good god are you not reading?
Drazerk makes a good vig shot because his style of play is useless to either alignment. He's scummy because of the things he's done, but he very well could be town because this is how he plays. That's why a lynch on him is a bad idea.
Yesterday people I thought were scum were voting Drazerk, so I unvoted Drazerk because that's a suggestion he's not scum. Palmar did the same, he seemed to agree with me.
Despite Drazerk not being the best lynch yesterday, he is still a good vig target because his behavior is unlikely to deviate from that of scummy townie/bad scum.
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On November 19 2011 06:53 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani.
Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope.
Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope.
So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: You provided shitty reasons. Might as well not have provided reasons at all. That's not reasoning btw, that's shitty scumtalk. I didn't break sinani down quote by quote and call it analysis. I I straight up said I voted sinani cause he was shitting up the thread. I wanted him gone cause he's 100% useless. Kenpachi isn't. And let you pushed for kenpachi cause he was "bad for town" and then tried to say it was analysis! good job! You and Palmar are such buttbuddies <3
lol.
This post wasn't even aimed at you and you're trying to spin it as if it is about you. Guess the world revolves around you, chaoser, eh?
I mentioned that you don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis because DCLXVI or whatever his name is said that Palmar's reasoning for suspecting Drazerk wasn't analysis, since it doesn't fit to his definition of analysis. DCLXVI is dumb because analysis is not synonymous with analyzing by quote usage.
Second, you can continue to call my reasoning shitty. You don't achieve anything except furthering your own agenda, since you continually say stuff is shitty logic without showing how or why it is.
Lastly, sinani wasn't shitting up the thread, YOU were.
I did not push Kenpachi, you moron.
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On November 19 2011 07:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 05:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 02:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this? Knowing Palmar, he's already tried to bus his whole team, but Chaoser wouldn't have. If I'm not around tomorrow, keep in mind that starting all this 'people I think are town' during the night is painting targets for the mafia, and Palmar started it. I have a very busy weekend so my contributions will of a lower quality until Monday. Both chaoser and Palmar are well known for bussing their teammates. Palmar is also self-proclaimed to be terrible as scum. Chaoser is not bad at scum IMO but for me it's easy to tell when he is. His hyperaggressiveness in defending himself by continually berating Palmar is a scum defense of his he usually employs. He did it to me and Mig in PYP when I was on his back for being scummy. Finally, use your brain. If Palmar wanted to paint targets for scum he'd do it in their QT. He wouldn't out to the entire thread who he think would make good doc prots. Most of his reads are fine, too. Why would he leave it in the QT? He can distract town from scumhunting, and make sure the mafia reads match up to ones from legitimate townies. As you've noticed, it's also a great way to try and direct the doctors protects, and therefore a great way to ensure all kp hits. omg... this is almost not worth responding to. At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is mafia and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around. Sure, he COULD be trying to direct doctors so that scum can all land their hits. But then why would he direct doctors to the most active and productive townies? Do you disagree with his calls? If you disagree with his calls then perhaps there is an agenda. You want the most productive townies to survive. If they are not protected, then scum will shoot them at will. It's optimal for scum to shoot the best townies. Otherwise, they'll be shooting into the pool of players who will have little influence on the lynch tomorrow, which is actually not optimal for them. Unless they have a strong reason to suspect someone is blue, there is no reason to not shoot the townies with the best reads and thread presence. omg... this is almost not worth responding to. At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is town and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around.
So you ignore the rest of my post?
This is why I ignore players like you, cause you don't use your brain and you make my effort worthless.
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On November 19 2011 07:04 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:58 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 19 2011 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:34 chaoser wrote:really? you were pretty fucking scared of me in Team Melee Mafia. You even stated it. although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) Hey, wait a minute...that kinda sounds like what you're trying to do right now...=] no, actually, I'm just tired of dealing with you right now. And tbh in TMM why do you think I pushed sandro's lynch over yours when I saw you suspected him? He was a much bigger threat than you, because you were dumb and thought he was scum. I knew I could get a mislynch on one of you but I had to play correctly in order to do it. Once I found out you were the doctor I continued my push but switched to sandro because I knew you were dumb enough to follow me. On November 19 2011 06:38 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:26 chaoser wrote:Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield? Sandroba was busy making our claimed medic Motivation so that he could save twice later on. I shot Radfield because I thought he was the most scummy and I needed the game to be longer since I needed to find the ring. It either case I shot mafia. In XXXIX, as soon as we were 90% someone was mafia, Kenpachi made the shot as vigi. Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes. The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town. So if this game isn't the same why did you try to use another game in the first place that wasn't the same to try to justify Palmar's "check chaoser, don't shoot him, he's mafia" logic? says the guy who keeps naming other games in order to try and back up his own (lack of) logic. In those cases the logic from the other game translated to the situation at hand cause I actually remember those situation and how they played out. See, unlike you, I have a bit more of an encyclopedia mindset of mafia games seeing as how I worked on part of the library =] Right. At no point did what you say have actual relevance to the game at hand. On November 19 2011 06:39 DCLXVI wrote:On November 19 2011 05:43 wherebugsgo wrote:While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we? ....................................... On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote: I forgot Drazerk, will do now (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) ##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation (Unvotes the guy?) If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused What? Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk... I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic. Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later. Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser. "All of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk"? Are you deliberately lying in hope that no one will read all of this, or do you honestly believe that what Palmar said constitutes as analysis? To me analysis is detailed reasoning backed up with direct quotations, not "he is playing badly" or "he is useless and scummy" I am also not sure where you got this: (wbg) Saying that Palmar only went after [chaoser] is another mischaracterization out of this: (palmar) We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. Of course it was. If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani. Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope. Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope. So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser.
I haven't seen such an easy day 1 lynch in a long time, probably since I gave myself away in XLV by incorrectly quoting a pm.
the chaoser lynch is only sensible. On November 17 2011 02:13 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 01:54 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town Erm wait a second... XL - Only reason I didn't get lynched was because I spammed the thread with martyr posts SNMM4 - Read above but a lot worse WaW2 - LOL AA - Bad tunnel at wiggles proceeding by telling the SK that I am the medic proceeded to acting retarded Ressurection - Lurk day 1 - shot day 1 - resed by scum and everyone realizes it because I was looking so scummy XL3 - Active lurked into acting scummy to get the whole scum team in a single post LOTR - Saved the scum from a vigilante, proceeded to defend his third party claim, ROLE CLAIMED MEDIC TO SAVE SCUM, and proceeding to get role blocked / shot while spreading confusion through out the day. Hell If scum had kept me alive I would of protected Kita and let them win. Not sure what Drazerk your talking about to be honest because it's not me Are you actually defending yourself by claiming bad? How does that benefit town? On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis. This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so. And yet, oddly enough, Palmar took his vote off Drazerk. yes, and so did I, because at the end of the day we were not sure if Drazerk was scum based on his behavior.Good god are you not reading? Drazerk makes a good vig shot because his style of play is useless to either alignment. He's scummy because of the things he's done, but he very well could be town because this is how he plays. That's why a lynch on him is a bad idea. Yesterday people I thought were scum were voting Drazerk, so I unvoted Drazerk because that's a suggestion he's not scum. Palmar did the same, he seemed to agree with me. Despite Drazerk not being the best lynch yesterday, he is still a good vig target because his behavior is unlikely to deviate from that of scummy townie/bad scum. ...This isn't a normal game where we only get 1 lynch a day. If it is good to have someone dead, and getting them lynched won't distract the thread too much, why not do it? 2 more votes on Drazerk a bit earlier could have led to him getting lynched instead of Sinani. If he was sitting at 12 near the end of the day along with Sinani, it easily could have been 2 people voting him instead of Sinani.
So we should kill everyone indiscriminately then?
Come on, THINK about what you are saying. Drazerk did not make a good lynch because the players we thought were scum were voting him. We don't know what the consequences are of lynching too many people at once. We don't even know what the number "too many" is.
Secondly, think about what distinguishes a vig shot from a lynch. A player like Nisani or Drazerk is best left to a vig shot because they will not contribute much if they are town and we try to lynch them. Just look at Drazerk, he did nothing despite being so close to being lynched. In that case, it's best we focus our lynch powers on other people and have the vigges decide who to kill at night.
We cannot control who the vigilantes shoot, but we can tell them who are decent bets. If we have multiple vigilantes we can't have them all shoot the same person. Thus, we provide them multiple targets to choose from. The best vig target right now is Nisani. Second and third would probably be Drazerk and prpl, or perhaps even chaoser since it is apparent he will not do anything but destroy this thread.
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and pushing for a lynch on such a player DOES distract the thread.
The more people we're forced to lynch in one day the more scum can distract us. That's precisely what happened yesterday, scum used the multiple lynch system to kill sinani instead of allowing us to focus on the real threats who basically got away scot free and left the thread in ruins.
Now I'm trying to fight to get you guys to see this and it's nearly impossible.
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On November 19 2011 07:14 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 07:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 07:04 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 19 2011 06:58 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 19 2011 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:34 chaoser wrote:really? you were pretty fucking scared of me in Team Melee Mafia. You even stated it. although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) Hey, wait a minute...that kinda sounds like what you're trying to do right now...=] no, actually, I'm just tired of dealing with you right now. And tbh in TMM why do you think I pushed sandro's lynch over yours when I saw you suspected him? He was a much bigger threat than you, because you were dumb and thought he was scum. I knew I could get a mislynch on one of you but I had to play correctly in order to do it. Once I found out you were the doctor I continued my push but switched to sandro because I knew you were dumb enough to follow me. On November 19 2011 06:38 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes.
The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town. So if this game isn't the same why did you try to use another game in the first place that wasn't the same to try to justify Palmar's "check chaoser, don't shoot him, he's mafia" logic? says the guy who keeps naming other games in order to try and back up his own (lack of) logic. In those cases the logic from the other game translated to the situation at hand cause I actually remember those situation and how they played out. See, unlike you, I have a bit more of an encyclopedia mindset of mafia games seeing as how I worked on part of the library =] Right. At no point did what you say have actual relevance to the game at hand. On November 19 2011 06:39 DCLXVI wrote:On November 19 2011 05:43 wherebugsgo wrote:While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we? ....................................... On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote: I forgot Drazerk, will do now (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote: [quote]
Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this.
I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town.
I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment.
We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) ##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation (Unvotes the guy?) If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused What? Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk... I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic. Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later. Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser. "All of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk"? Are you deliberately lying in hope that no one will read all of this, or do you honestly believe that what Palmar said constitutes as analysis? To me analysis is detailed reasoning backed up with direct quotations, not "he is playing badly" or "he is useless and scummy" I am also not sure where you got this: (wbg) Saying that Palmar only went after [chaoser] is another mischaracterization out of this: (palmar) We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. Of course it was. If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani. Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope. Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope. So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser.
I haven't seen such an easy day 1 lynch in a long time, probably since I gave myself away in XLV by incorrectly quoting a pm.
the chaoser lynch is only sensible. On November 17 2011 02:13 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 01:54 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town Erm wait a second... XL - Only reason I didn't get lynched was because I spammed the thread with martyr posts SNMM4 - Read above but a lot worse WaW2 - LOL AA - Bad tunnel at wiggles proceeding by telling the SK that I am the medic proceeded to acting retarded Ressurection - Lurk day 1 - shot day 1 - resed by scum and everyone realizes it because I was looking so scummy XL3 - Active lurked into acting scummy to get the whole scum team in a single post LOTR - Saved the scum from a vigilante, proceeded to defend his third party claim, ROLE CLAIMED MEDIC TO SAVE SCUM, and proceeding to get role blocked / shot while spreading confusion through out the day. Hell If scum had kept me alive I would of protected Kita and let them win. Not sure what Drazerk your talking about to be honest because it's not me Are you actually defending yourself by claiming bad? How does that benefit town? On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis. This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so. And yet, oddly enough, Palmar took his vote off Drazerk. yes, and so did I, because at the end of the day we were not sure if Drazerk was scum based on his behavior.Good god are you not reading? Drazerk makes a good vig shot because his style of play is useless to either alignment. He's scummy because of the things he's done, but he very well could be town because this is how he plays. That's why a lynch on him is a bad idea. Yesterday people I thought were scum were voting Drazerk, so I unvoted Drazerk because that's a suggestion he's not scum. Palmar did the same, he seemed to agree with me. Despite Drazerk not being the best lynch yesterday, he is still a good vig target because his behavior is unlikely to deviate from that of scummy townie/bad scum. ...This isn't a normal game where we only get 1 lynch a day. If it is good to have someone dead, and getting them lynched won't distract the thread too much, why not do it? 2 more votes on Drazerk a bit earlier could have led to him getting lynched instead of Sinani. If he was sitting at 12 near the end of the day along with Sinani, it easily could have been 2 people voting him instead of Sinani. So we should kill everyone indiscriminately then? Come on, THINK about what you are saying. Drazerk did not make a good lynch because the players we thought were scum were voting him. We don't know what the consequences are of lynching too many people at once. We don't even know what the number "too many" is. Secondly, think about what distinguishes a vig shot from a lynch. A player like Nisani or Drazerk is best left to a vig shot because they will not contribute much if they are town and we try to lynch them. Just look at Drazerk, he did nothing despite being so close to being lynched. In that case, it's best we focus our lynch powers on other people and have the vigges decide who to kill at night. We cannot control who the vigilantes shoot, but we can tell them who are decent bets. If we have multiple vigilantes we can't have them all shoot the same person. Thus, we provide them multiple targets to choose from. The best vig target right now is Nisani. Second and third would probably be Drazerk and prpl, or perhaps even chaoser since it is apparent he will not do anything but destroy this thread. You on more than one occasion supported lynching 3 people in one day. Don't use that as your excuse. Show nested quote +We can potentially lynch 3 if we're confident today but I think a double lynch would be best. After Kenpachi was lynched, apparently advocating for 4:
I never realistically expected more than two. I would have been most content with nisani/chaoser dying, because that would have given a lot of information to us about bum and LSB. Nisani was the best lurkerish player to kill too.
And no, it isn't an excuse. It's something I've thought about and I've changed my mind multiple times, as you have seen. Earlier in the day I thought a double lynch was good, then the Lanaia and Kenpachi stuff happened and before I knew it Kenpachi was lynched. At that point I was like okay..well, chaoser and bum/nisani need to die so I guess we'll have to lynch three.
No one listened, of course, so instead the focus was on sinani.
Also for anyone who doesn't know, scum LOVE using sinani as a day 1 scapegoat. I've played four games in which sinani was town, and sinani has died in three of them on day 1. In resurrection, town/scum pushed sinani's lynch day 1 and he died pretty easily for being useless. In MLP mafia, I was scum and my scumbuddy Curu led the lynch on sinani day 1. He died pretty easily again, for being useless. In this game...you get the idea.
On November 19 2011 07:13 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 07:04 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 07:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 06:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 05:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 02:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this? Knowing Palmar, he's already tried to bus his whole team, but Chaoser wouldn't have. If I'm not around tomorrow, keep in mind that starting all this 'people I think are town' during the night is painting targets for the mafia, and Palmar started it. I have a very busy weekend so my contributions will of a lower quality until Monday. Both chaoser and Palmar are well known for bussing their teammates. Palmar is also self-proclaimed to be terrible as scum. Chaoser is not bad at scum IMO but for me it's easy to tell when he is. His hyperaggressiveness in defending himself by continually berating Palmar is a scum defense of his he usually employs. He did it to me and Mig in PYP when I was on his back for being scummy. Finally, use your brain. If Palmar wanted to paint targets for scum he'd do it in their QT. He wouldn't out to the entire thread who he think would make good doc prots. Most of his reads are fine, too. Why would he leave it in the QT? He can distract town from scumhunting, and make sure the mafia reads match up to ones from legitimate townies. As you've noticed, it's also a great way to try and direct the doctors protects, and therefore a great way to ensure all kp hits. omg... this is almost not worth responding to. At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is mafia and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around. Sure, he COULD be trying to direct doctors so that scum can all land their hits. But then why would he direct doctors to the most active and productive townies? Do you disagree with his calls? If you disagree with his calls then perhaps there is an agenda. You want the most productive townies to survive. If they are not protected, then scum will shoot them at will. It's optimal for scum to shoot the best townies. Otherwise, they'll be shooting into the pool of players who will have little influence on the lynch tomorrow, which is actually not optimal for them. Unless they have a strong reason to suspect someone is blue, there is no reason to not shoot the townies with the best reads and thread presence. omg... this is almost not worth responding to. At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is town and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around. derp derp derp derp derp? derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp derp. STFU
you gonna do something this game, Coag?
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On November 19 2011 07:22 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 07:04 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 07:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 06:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 05:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 02:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 19 2011 02:11 Lanaia wrote:On November 18 2011 23:50 Palmar wrote: I was under the impression Lanaia has played quite a bit on globalgamers (IRC mafia) I recall something about that from PTP2. If I'm wrong, well then I'm sorry I guess.
IRC mafia is not the same as forum mafia. I am a hell of a lot better at IRC mafia than at forum mafia. Also, I'm really sorry if I don't post much within the next... 12 hours (unless the highway is shut down, I'll be working tonight). I hate this feeling I have. I want everyone who is currently active to be town (though that is highly unlikely). Right now, I feel that only one of chaoser and Palmar can be scum (leaning Palmar); however they could technically be both town, but I get the feeling scum would not try to bus day one, am I correct in thinking this? Knowing Palmar, he's already tried to bus his whole team, but Chaoser wouldn't have. If I'm not around tomorrow, keep in mind that starting all this 'people I think are town' during the night is painting targets for the mafia, and Palmar started it. I have a very busy weekend so my contributions will of a lower quality until Monday. Both chaoser and Palmar are well known for bussing their teammates. Palmar is also self-proclaimed to be terrible as scum. Chaoser is not bad at scum IMO but for me it's easy to tell when he is. His hyperaggressiveness in defending himself by continually berating Palmar is a scum defense of his he usually employs. He did it to me and Mig in PYP when I was on his back for being scummy. Finally, use your brain. If Palmar wanted to paint targets for scum he'd do it in their QT. He wouldn't out to the entire thread who he think would make good doc prots. Most of his reads are fine, too. Why would he leave it in the QT? He can distract town from scumhunting, and make sure the mafia reads match up to ones from legitimate townies. As you've noticed, it's also a great way to try and direct the doctors protects, and therefore a great way to ensure all kp hits. omg... this is almost not worth responding to. At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is mafia and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around. Sure, he COULD be trying to direct doctors so that scum can all land their hits. But then why would he direct doctors to the most active and productive townies? Do you disagree with his calls? If you disagree with his calls then perhaps there is an agenda. You want the most productive townies to survive. If they are not protected, then scum will shoot them at will. It's optimal for scum to shoot the best townies. Otherwise, they'll be shooting into the pool of players who will have little influence on the lynch tomorrow, which is actually not optimal for them. Unless they have a strong reason to suspect someone is blue, there is no reason to not shoot the townies with the best reads and thread presence. omg... this is almost not worth responding to. At this point in the game, you are making an assumption that Palmar is town and then trying to fit his behavior to that assumption. Your logic is terrible. You should try doing the other way around. So you ignore the rest of my post? This is why I ignore players like you, cause you don't use your brain and you make my effort worthless. Your 'effort' was steering the conversation back towards town reads. I had two options, surrender my town reads so you could make the most of them, or ignore it. If your scum, that was commendable. If you are town, you need to back down and take a fresh approach.
Lol.
My effort was not aimed at doing that, it was actually at showing why listing doctor protects is not necessarily a scummy thing to do.
I don't agree with listing people you think are town, that's why I don't often do it. I only do it when people think someone is scum when I strongly believe they are not. So in this regard I disagree with the people listing townies, (like Palmar) because it's WIFOM if they live or not.
Also your false dichotomy is funny. There were many more options than that, one of which was using your brain and realizing I wasn't asking anything of you.
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also, my current frustration stems from people not reading the thread.
I realize I am getting a bit rude, so I'm going to back off this thread for a while.
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On November 19 2011 07:43 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:34 chaoser wrote:really? you were pretty fucking scared of me in Team Melee Mafia. You even stated it. although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) Hey, wait a minute...that kinda sounds like what you're trying to do right now...=] no, actually, I'm just tired of dealing with you right now. And tbh in TMM why do you think I pushed sandro's lynch over yours when I saw you suspected him? He was a much bigger threat than you, because you were dumb and thought he was scum. I knew I could get a mislynch on one of you but I had to play correctly in order to do it. Once I found out you were the doctor I continued my push but switched to sandro because I knew you were dumb enough to follow me. On November 19 2011 06:38 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote:On November 19 2011 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 19 2011 06:26 chaoser wrote:Yeah except you weren't playing as town when you shot Radfield, did you? Why didn't the actual town vigilantes, like sandroba, shoot Radfield? Sandroba was busy making our claimed medic Motivation so that he could save twice later on. I shot Radfield because I thought he was the most scummy and I needed the game to be longer since I needed to find the ring. It either case I shot mafia. In XXXIX, as soon as we were 90% someone was mafia, Kenpachi made the shot as vigi. Who cares? This game is not the same, we don't even know if we have vigilantes. The fact that you're so concerned about this relatively irrelevant specific piece of information makes you look so mind-bogglingly dense that I honestly wouldn't mind if a vig shot you right now, since it's clear that you aren't town. So if this game isn't the same why did you try to use another game in the first place that wasn't the same to try to justify Palmar's "check chaoser, don't shoot him, he's mafia" logic? says the guy who keeps naming other games in order to try and back up his own (lack of) logic. In those cases the logic from the other game translated to the situation at hand cause I actually remember those situation and how they played out. See, unlike you, I have a bit more of an encyclopedia mindset of mafia games seeing as how I worked on part of the library =] Right. At no point did what you say have actual relevance to the game at hand. On November 19 2011 06:39 DCLXVI wrote:On November 19 2011 05:43 wherebugsgo wrote:While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we? ....................................... On November 19 2011 00:15 chaoser wrote:Oh and also: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser. On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote: I forgot Drazerk, will do now (He never does until he's asked about it again...a day later) On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. (He still doesn't do it) ##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation (Unvotes the guy?) If we have vigilantes they should be focusing on people who are hellbent on being useless and scummy to boot.
Nisani201 Drazerk xskxc (But then wants to shoot him?) Click your own filter, you have 1 post that consists of more than 5-ish lines, and even that has very little information. Your primary responsibility as town is to establish your innocence and being transparent, with almost nothing to go on except you chasing after Drazerk you look pretty bad.
In fact, the fact that you question it so genuinely is probably the most townie thing you've done the entire game. That doesn't change the fact that while we are aware you want to lynch Drazerk, you haven't done much to share any of your other reads. (Then bitches at xskxc for "only going after Drazerk" when he himself has predominately only gone after me?) I is confused What? Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk... I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic. Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later. Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser. "All of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk"? Are you deliberately lying in hope that no one will read all of this, or do you honestly believe that what Palmar said constitutes as analysis? To me analysis is detailed reasoning backed up with direct quotations, not "he is playing badly" or "he is useless and scummy" I am also not sure where you got this: (wbg) Saying that Palmar only went after [chaoser] is another mischaracterization out of this: (palmar) We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. Of course it was. If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani. Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope. Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope. So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser.
I haven't seen such an easy day 1 lynch in a long time, probably since I gave myself away in XLV by incorrectly quoting a pm.
the chaoser lynch is only sensible. On November 17 2011 02:13 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 01:54 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town Erm wait a second... XL - Only reason I didn't get lynched was because I spammed the thread with martyr posts SNMM4 - Read above but a lot worse WaW2 - LOL AA - Bad tunnel at wiggles proceeding by telling the SK that I am the medic proceeded to acting retarded Ressurection - Lurk day 1 - shot day 1 - resed by scum and everyone realizes it because I was looking so scummy XL3 - Active lurked into acting scummy to get the whole scum team in a single post LOTR - Saved the scum from a vigilante, proceeded to defend his third party claim, ROLE CLAIMED MEDIC TO SAVE SCUM, and proceeding to get role blocked / shot while spreading confusion through out the day. Hell If scum had kept me alive I would of protected Kita and let them win. Not sure what Drazerk your talking about to be honest because it's not me Are you actually defending yourself by claiming bad? How does that benefit town? On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis. This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so. I think you missed the point of my post. chaoser questions where Palmer's promised analysis on Drazerk is. You claim that Drazerk did analyse him, but the only 'analysis' of Drazerk AFTER Palmar promised to do so was: Show nested quote +Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this.
I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? To me this is not detailed analysis. To sway the town to vote for someone you suspect you should build an argument that is more than just laughing off the player. List all of the examples of poor play, give reasons as to why his play is poor. Would you honestly accept me saying something on the order of: "WBG has made some pretty scummy plays including spamming up the thread by arguing with chaoser", including several other posts with nothing relevant, as analysis? chaoser brought up the point that Palmar did not follow through with what he said he would do. Stop trying to make this about chaoser's analysis, I am talking about Palmar's lack of one.
you. are. not. reading. the. thread. I. cannot. believe. this. is. so. difficult.
On November 17 2011 07:56 Palmar wrote: I forgot Drazerk, will do now
On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else.
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I'm reading the thread, I probably just wasn't clear enough.
The confusion is apparently stemming from the fact that Palmar was responding to Drazerk about him writing a case on Tyrran, and chaoser quote mining Palmar to make it look as if Palmar was promising an analysis on Drazerk.
I actually didn't realize that myself, that's why I was like wtf ofc Palmar provided analysis on Drazerk. I didn't think very much about whether Palmar promised anything or not (I didn't remember him promising analysis on Drazerk, anyway)
So, lesson learned: don't listen to chaoser.
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On November 19 2011 08:12 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Thing is, he's throwing around one-liners. Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town, but maybe this is the latest development in town play, a lot of players (myself, for example) get a bit cocky once they're over their newbie phase.
However, we know Drazerk isn't dumb. The only attack he's actually made in the game is against a newbie, which is a safe attack (attacking a veteran as scum is risky, cause they will call you out), and he wasn't completely convinced by my case on chaoser.
I haven't seen such an easy day 1 lynch in a long time, probably since I gave myself away in XLV by incorrectly quoting a pm.
the chaoser lynch is only sensible. On November 17 2011 02:13 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 01:54 Drazerk wrote:On November 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: Drazerk generally at least tries to look town when he's town Erm wait a second... XL - Only reason I didn't get lynched was because I spammed the thread with martyr posts SNMM4 - Read above but a lot worse WaW2 - LOL AA - Bad tunnel at wiggles proceeding by telling the SK that I am the medic proceeded to acting retarded Ressurection - Lurk day 1 - shot day 1 - resed by scum and everyone realizes it because I was looking so scummy XL3 - Active lurked into acting scummy to get the whole scum team in a single post LOTR - Saved the scum from a vigilante, proceeded to defend his third party claim, ROLE CLAIMED MEDIC TO SAVE SCUM, and proceeding to get role blocked / shot while spreading confusion through out the day. Hell If scum had kept me alive I would of protected Kita and let them win. Not sure what Drazerk your talking about to be honest because it's not me Are you actually defending yourself by claiming bad? How does that benefit town? On November 17 2011 23:29 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 23:24 xsksc wrote: Palmar, what are your thoughts on Drazerk? While I agree that Chaos would be a decent lynch, I see Drazerk as way more suspicious at the moment and I'd rather lynch him. Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis. This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so. And yet you posted this where you tried to claim that he DID do analysis
He did!
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I wasn't concerned with him promising analysis of Drazerk and not delivering it because I never recalled him promising anything other than analysis of Tyrran. You are the one who misconstrued that and this entire mess comes down to you quote mining Palmar. You were even caught doing it.
If the question was, did Palmar do analysis of Drazerk the answer is yes, and always will be. That's all I was ever concerned with because your entire argument was that Palmar was a hypocrite for focusing entirely on you and ignoring everyone else for your lynch, when I don't think that was the case.
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On November 19 2011 08:23 Coagulation wrote: It says hes annoying.
not scum ^^
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On November 19 2011 08:49 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 07:09 wherebugsgo wrote: A player like Nisani or Drazerk is best left to a vig shot because they will not contribute much if they are town and we try to lynch them.
Why do you keep saying this? Stop dictatin what contributions I will make in the thread. You keep saying that I will be useless D2, but I know exactly what I am going to do. I'm going to push for your lynch, as well as Drazerk's. You know this is coming, whci his why, right now, you're trying to nullify everything I say by putting it under the label of "useless." That way, when Drazerk is lynched, you can take the credit. You don't want a vig to shoot me because I'll be useless. You want a vig to shoot me so you can bus Drazerk all by yourself. You're scared because you see me as a threat. If there are any vigs here, think before you shoot.
lol
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Chaoser is not making any sense atm.
Also Drazerk you aren't making much sense either, though that is considerably less surprising.
##vote chaoser ##vote Nisani201
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Kill Nisani. Look at his last set of votes.
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prpl is making more sense than some of the other players in this game right now. He's right about Drazerk not being mod-confirmed until he flips, for example.
I'll be back later with more thoughts, I'll try to organize them all in one post.
It seems that Coag would like to focus on bum and lemon. Coag can you explain these votes? I wonder if your reasoning for voting bum is the same reasoning I find him suspicious. Likewise with lemon, actually, though lemon is a little further down my list (not far though)
I would obviously like to focus on nisani and chaoser today.
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On November 20 2011 05:39 prplhz wrote: As for why I even decided to go with caps in the first place, I thought townies would still read it while scum would just conveniently ignore it or maybe even use it against me. Townies read shit, scum just jump on anything that looks somewhat odd.
that's moronic, when you act like an idiot everyone ignores you.
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On November 20 2011 06:47 prplhz wrote: Writing in caps isn't acting like an idiot by default. Am I the only one who actually reads the thread? I've seen a ton of people saying "okay I'm ignoring you because you're a moron" to one another but I always thought it was a joke. You read the fucking thread and don't discard people's opinion before reading just because you think they are moronic. Where is that Incognito post where he says this pretty clearly? It's been quoted like 10 times since I joined these forums.
no, it isn't, but to a lot of people it screams "IGNORE ME"
If you post nothing but all caps one liners then people will just pretend you don't exist. You need to use logic and reason to convince people.
If you don't bother reading or if you don't bother reasoning out your arguments people will either call you dumb, ignore you, or think you're scum and try to kill you.
If you scream one liners and then ask why no one listened to you, then you're an idiot.
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On November 20 2011 18:42 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:@ForumiteLSB is not going to be replaced due to inactivity. Expecting your read on him, preferably after the daypost. Given what the daypost contained, I can't help but ask...why did you want me to post my read on him after the daypost rather than before? Scum don´t shoot those they think are going to be lynched anyway. If you have a solid case on LSB and present it during the night, this will probably causes scum to avoid LSB, expecting Day 2 to be spent killing LSB. If scum don´t know who Town want to lynch the next day, then they might kill off a few of the suspects for the next days lynch. Scum always kill townies, but if they are not sure about Towns opinions, then they might kill off suspicious Townies instead of confirmed Townies. This is why I often urge analysis to be posted the next day or 2 minutes before the daypost, to give scum as little information to base their nightkill on as possible.
This should only be followed if you believe you're safe.
If you think you're a scum target and you might die, you should always publish your reads before the night is over.
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On November 21 2011 07:46 risk.nuke wrote:Chaoser has been subject to lynching for a long time, I'm starting to belive he might be town, either way I don't want to lynch him today. Imo I have better candidates for today, wbg and prphlz. I'm almost convinced RoL is town because I find it less likely a scum player would loose interest. I've been unsure on DCLXVI and Lemonwalrus but really they fall into the category as lynchable people which is mostly all you've been going after palmar and right now I'm so incredibly suspicious at you. I'm scared shitless that your role might be a godfather. These last days I've been getting very suspicious against you palmar. And It's not just what you've done I find it very interesting that you've been getting along with wbg, Most importantly none of you have questioned or brought up any of the scummy things the other have done. Imo, if one of these guys are found out to be scum we lynch them both without hesitation unless they got a fucking amazing explaination and I mean amazing and I mean the truth and I want it fast, not a couple of hours for you to cook up something in which case I will assume you've worked out a lie. My current scumteam.Prplhz xsksc Zepphird I'm convinced atleast 1 of these three is scum and potentially all three, my post. this is to odd to be ignored. However that is based on if prphlz is scum. If he flip town they go back to null-read ##Vote: wherebugsgo Palmar I'm not going to vote for him due to his getting shot claim. I think we'll find out the truth of that later.
You say you have a better candidate in me but you don't even talk about me in your post.
God you people...I just don't understand
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I asked this yesterday and no one answered.
For all I'm concerned he's terrible town. He could be scum too.
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What are you going on about?
I agree with Palmar because most of his opinions have been correct. Unlike the rest of you, his reads make sense.
Why Nisani isn't getting turbo lynched is beyond me.
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Greymist the simple fact that you have to ask that of Nisani should probably tell you that he needs to die.
He's not interested in being transparent or following through on what he says. He contradicts himself constantly. He's scum.
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He's not loud at all, he just looks loud when people call him out.
Look on the other side of it. Look at the difference between prpl and nisani. They both appear loud but prpl is far more consistent. That's why I think he's more town than nisani.
Nisani as town is loud and consistently loud. He tunnels hard, but he also doesn't let go of that tunnel even for a second. In this game he just OMGUSes and attacks everyone who thinks he's scum. Then, as you've noticed, he forgets people randomly. In MLP when he caught onto me being scum he never let go. He didn't even bother considering anyone else.
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On November 21 2011 13:23 prplhz wrote: I'm inclined to believe Palmar's hit claim for now. I don't believe that there is a vig out there who hit him. This means that he got hit by mafia. If two people aren't hit by mafia tomorrow then we'll know a lot more about this situation. Palmar is a poor lynch today, we wait and see if scum really has 2KP, which doesn't sound far fetched.
@wherebugsgo
Isn't that exactly what he's doing here? Nisani201 has been on your back since the beginning of this game. I also don't think he's less loud than me, probably more loud. Loud is a bad thing here, Nisani201 is saying stuff like "herp" in caps.
No, read more carefully. In MLP Nisani attacked me before I attacked him. He built a reasonable case and then tunneled, ignoring everyone. He tunneled so hard that practically no other player existed to him.
In this game he just OMGUSed me and never built any sort of case. It's more similar to XLV than anything else.
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I've said repeatedly I don't think prpl is scum. Sorry for my absence, I'm going to be absent a little more today because of class and homework. I have about 20 minutes now (till the hour)
1. Whoever replaced chaoser should probably die. Chaoser was scummy enough that I don't care who replaces him. He should die.
2. Nisani is scum, so he should die. I've pointed out why he is scum, and he really hasn't done anything today to prove otherwise.
3. DCLXVI or whatever his name is should probably die as well, but I think prpl has been hammered, so we should probably leave him till tomorrow. Out of the three, I'm least confident on this guy, but he seems to be pushing a scum agenda every time he posts, so I'd like people to pay attention to him.
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##vote: DCLXVI
go die, scum. I forgot this earlier lol
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number of people voting already-hammered candidates = 3 and counting.
wtf come on you derps
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good god you guys are a bunch of ...
-___-
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On November 22 2011 09:02 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: good god you guys are a bunch of ...
-___- WBG, to repeat the question that was lost a page back, do you think we should still lynch nisani with prp's post-mortem blue claim? what makes him different now than sinani and prp?
-_-
I feel like a broken record. Unless Nisani does anything additionally bad in the future, I will keep referring people back to this post specifically, since I do believe I've repeated my reasoning at least twice now.
Here's the bulk of the initial case:
On November 18 2011 05:40 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 05:28 Nisani201 wrote: WBG you are so wrong... I provided a reason for every single one my votes. Okay, I think I understand now. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:55 Nisani201 wrote: Just read through the thread. A lot of shit is going down.
But most of it is irrelevant. Kenpachi is not irrelevant. He should die.
##Vote: Kenpachi That's not a reason. "Kenpachi is irrelevant therefore he should die" is not a reason for him being scum. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:02 Nisani201 wrote: Palmar needs to get lynched. His case against chaoser is stupid, and he has barely been doing anything throughout this game. His vote on Lanaia is also scummy.
##Vote: Palmar That sounds like a reason, but actually it's just bull. Completely unsubstantiated. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 02:16 Nisani201 wrote:On November 17 2011 00:55 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 00:53 Nisani201 wrote: OK, one bullshit case is bad enough. But two?
Enough with the FoS. Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite Which case is bullshit mr. Nisani201? Both of them are bullshit. First we have this case against LSB, which I already mentioned: On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote: come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. + Show Spoiler +Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once. And then we have this: On November 16 2011 22:48 Forumite wrote:On November 16 2011 22:09 xsksc wrote:On November 16 2011 21:42 Forumite wrote:On November 15 2011 14:13 xsksc wrote: This is my first proper mafia game, just finished a newbie mini-game the other day. GLHF Everyone!:D Just found this little gem. Looks like a typical newbie scumpost. His filter suggest the same. FoS: xsksc Sorry, what? I posted this before the game even got going, I was breaking the ice and being friendly, what is scummy about it? It IS my first real mafia game, I'm excited about it. Several others have said it's their first game too. Can you enlighten me, why do you think it's a newbie scumpost? No, the game had allready started. You confirmed getting your role first of all players, then when people got going with discussing policy, you dropped the above post. During 2 hours people had been talking about policy, and even dropped a few weird posts that have since been called out, so the game had definetly started. And about which part is scummy about it? Everything! You excuse yourself as a new player, thereby lowering our expectations on your contribution in the game, making way for future lurking. It´s an empty icebreaker, full of forced enthusiasm. The message of the post is "I´m trying to help but will probably fail". Is that the kind of player we are going to rely on in this game, or someone who will be left until the end because noone will bother to shoot him? He is pressuring them based on bullshit cases. ------------ In regards to chaoser, I don't think that Palmar's analysis has enough evidence to prove him guilty. Just because it's Palmar doesn't mean that we can't look at his analysees objectively. When Palmar asked you "what case is bullshit" you just picked the two and said they're bullshit. You didn't say why. You didn't point out anything that seemed fabricated. You just said they're bullshit. Real convincing, dude. Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 01:58 Nisani201 wrote: I just read through Drazerk's filter. He has been jumping on bandwagons and supporting bad lynches this whole game.
Seriously, why aren't more people voting for him?
##Vote: Drazerk This one makes you a hypocrite, since you also voted Kenpachi. The problem is that both you and Drazerk look terrible, and neither of you has amazing town play. Drazerk is straight up bad as town (no offense, Drazerk you defended yourself by saying that lol). I'd rather vote you over Drazerk right now since you seem to be soft-defending chaoser at every turn, and I don't like chaoser right now. So, you need to die. ##unvote Drazerk ##vote Nisani201
#2 is his shift in behavior from the way he previously plays.
here's more:
On November 18 2011 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote: Nisani your defense is terrible and you are pushing bad lynches.
Notice how no one agrees with you, other than perhaps Drazerk? Yeah, that's cause you don't have a case on Forumite. Your vote on him is bad.
Drazerk is a bad lynch today too, for the simple reason that he's just been cocky. People are trying to use LaL to lynch him, which is honestly hilarious.
#3, he was one of the players who was on only one of the wagons yesterday. He voted Kenpachi for really dumb reasons, then appeared to back off when he got hammered. That was shady to me even before the flip.
#4, what separates him from sinani is that nisani actually has a discernible style as town and scum. In this game he has OMGUSed every single person who initially voted him (myself, Palmar, cyber) and as town he doesn't do that, generally.
He's not a very good player, but he's not this bad either.
Then, he continually pushed Drazerk for no reason, even going so far as to connect me and Drazerk. Unsubstantiated assumptions ftw. As town he doesn't tend to do such things, he just tunnels one player. He randomly voted multiple people day 1 and claimed he actually had reasoning for his votes despite failing to come up with them over and over.
Lastly, since I thought chaoser was scum, and he straight up refused to comment on Nisani, I was increasingly suspicious that they were scum together.
We can't determine that until one of them flips, of course, but it's a lead nevertheless.
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also DCLXVI is soft-claiming medic.
A real medic wouldn't do that...
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yeah, I'd prefer seeing nisani die.
also DCLXVI said something about not protecting Palmar. That's dead obvious if prpl is telling the truth, why restate it?
It sounds as if he's claiming medic. Real medic would not do that.
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also I don't think any competent medic would ever protect prpl, so him actually truly claiming medic is thrown out the window. DCLXVI should die.
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On November 22 2011 09:37 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 09:36 wherebugsgo wrote: also I don't think any competent medic would ever protect prpl, so him actually truly claiming medic is thrown out the window. DCLXVI should die. He said he visited Tyrran, not prpl.
ah yes, my bad. I'm on my phone atm. I'll read through again before posting.
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On November 22 2011 10:01 Nisani201 wrote: omg, it's working. You guys are all sheep for voting on me.
Palmar has not even attempted to defend himself, and you are still trusting him.
Why are you trusting a case made by obvious scum? Palmar is the enemy here. All of you should be lynching him. If you don't think he's scummy, read my analysis again.
WBG is just being his usual tunneling self, and I am starting to lean more towards him being scum than him being stupid town.
I don't think I'm going to get lynched today, but we have to realize that the true enemy is Palmar. He is the king of misguiding the town this game.
From now on, I want you to read everything he says objectively. Don't mindlessly trust him like you have been so far. WBG is sort of the same thing (except he's merely a parrot).
wtf?
bum what do you think of nisani?
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RoL, we don't have two medic claims. A medic flipped yesterday, prpl is claiming some sort of copycat (and he's already been hammered) and DCLXVI fucked up and soft-claimed medic.
Which, I doubt is a real town claim, I think it's a scumclaim. Now he continually soft claims without actually stating his damn role.
If you're town you would've disclosed full info by now. I highly doubt that you are at this point.
Bum, can you clarify why you chose to vote in the manner that you did?
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actually I should rephrase that:
if you were town and you made the mistake of soft claiming medic, you would full claim by now.
Since townies are very unlikely to soft claim medic like the way DCL did, he's pretty much guaranteed to be scum.
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On November 22 2011 11:06 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: WBG, Have you read all of his posts?
yep.
also the soft claim was him saying he didn't protect Palmar.
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On November 22 2011 11:09 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote: RoL, we don't have two medic claims. A medic flipped yesterday, prpl is claiming some sort of copycat (and he's already been hammered) and DCLXVI fucked up and soft-claimed medic.
Which, I doubt is a real town claim, I think it's a scumclaim. Now he continually soft claims without actually stating his damn role.
If you're town you would've disclosed full info by now. I highly doubt that you are at this point.
Bum, can you clarify why you chose to vote in the manner that you did? I asked forumite to vote DCL or palmar, and he did. I will vote nisani again tomorrow if you're refering to the timing? I'm very skeptical of nisani, but he did vote both DCL and palmar. I don't have much of a read on him anymore, but I did think he was scum. Think long think wrong.
What does Forumite voting DCL/Palmar have to do with you voting nisani?
If Forumite voted Palmar would you still have voted Nisani? What's with the conditional voting?
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On November 22 2011 11:12 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 11:10 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 22 2011 11:09 bumatlarge wrote:On November 22 2011 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote: RoL, we don't have two medic claims. A medic flipped yesterday, prpl is claiming some sort of copycat (and he's already been hammered) and DCLXVI fucked up and soft-claimed medic.
Which, I doubt is a real town claim, I think it's a scumclaim. Now he continually soft claims without actually stating his damn role.
If you're town you would've disclosed full info by now. I highly doubt that you are at this point.
Bum, can you clarify why you chose to vote in the manner that you did? I asked forumite to vote DCL or palmar, and he did. I will vote nisani again tomorrow if you're refering to the timing? I'm very skeptical of nisani, but he did vote both DCL and palmar. I don't have much of a read on him anymore, but I did think he was scum. Think long think wrong. What does Forumite voting DCL/Palmar have to do with you voting nisani? If Forumite voted Palmar would you still have voted Nisani? What's with the conditional voting? Is vote bartering against the law? You vote palmar or DCL tomorrow, I'll vote whoever you want too.
and if I vote both you and DCL?
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also looks like a bunch of people didn't learn their day 1 lesson...
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On November 22 2011 21:00 Kibibit wrote: Allrighty, so later today, I'll attempt to retype up my defense of chaoser who has been replaced, but the biggest problem for me is that we've lynched or lost at least 1 person whom I genuinely thought were scum, which bothers me greatly as far as trusting my instincts on players. I'm going to make a few passes through this thread and get a better feel for things now that there's nothing else better for me to be doing at the moment.
Newsflash: your instincts suck, start using logic. The faster you learn that the faster you stop being terrible.
And I mean that in general, not you specifically.
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kill nisani+bum tomorrow and interrogate Mr. Zentor to make sure he's scum, but probably kill him too.
Also take a look at Sabin, Lemon, Coag in order from scummiest to least scummy
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RoL is probably town.
You're probably not, though.
##vote Nisani201 ##vote bumatlarge
What's setting me off about DCL is that nisani is voting him...
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RoL is very likely to be town because I thought Hiroruby was town. You're not. Please die.
There exists a case on you, I've reiterated it at least 3 times. Dumb townies are dumb. They don't listen. You die now. ooohhh thahnk yuuuu come agin
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I'm not threatened by your shitty votes, town is not going to push for my mislynch. I don't suck.
Bum voting DCL+Palmar is also very shady. He needs to die too.
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so Nisani has four votes, one of which is an OMGUS on me (carried over from day 1 rofl) and he accuses me of not making a case on him, when he in turn has made no case on me.
I've made my case. I made my case early day 1 and no one listened to it, now all Nisani does is randomly vote people and say absolutely nothing in his shitty posts.
He votes RoL for a baseless vote on Palmar, but he himself makes a baseless vote on RoL.
He accuses me of not using logic, when he himself is not using logic when he thinks both RoL and Palmar can be scum if RoL voted Palmar (derp)
And again, complaining of baseless votes by other players when he mentioned DCLXVI a grand total of once before voting him, then saying that my accusations that he has terrible logic are bad when his vote of DCLXVI is somehow a display of logic.
He says this:
On November 23 2011 12:46 Nisani201 wrote: RoL has done nothing for town. The fact that you're soft defending him makes me more suspicious of you.
but has a problem with this:
On November 23 2011 12:42 wherebugsgo wrote: What's setting me off about DCL is that nisani is voting him...
Most damning is this:
On November 21 2011 08:00 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 23:56 Palmar wrote: yah, do you have a problem with that?
Like, I'm almost just as certain that nisani201 is scum, and I don't care if some hero of the town shoots him and leaves him dead in a ditch, he's not going to be useful anyway. Even if he's town nothing of value was lost. I will conclude my analysis with a scumlist that Palmar provides. Currently it provides no reasoning; however I wouldn't be surprised if he follows it up later today. Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 06:05 Palmar wrote: I had an initial town read on prplhz, I'm sorry but I don't have time to expand upon that, so I'm just gonna go ahead and not support a lynch on him.
I'm really sorry for my performance today, real life is just taking time away from me.
here are my scumreads:
##Vote: DCLXVI ##Vote: chaoser ##Vote: Lemonwalrus ##Vote: RebirthOfLeGenD Stop being manipulated. Get out of your box. Realize that Palmar is scum, and vote for him.
He accuses Palmar of being manipulative, and saying that Palmar is pushing a scum agenda.
Then he votes for two of the four people Palmar voted yesterday, AKA RoL and DCLXVI. If he truly believed Palmar was pushing a scum agenda then he wouldn't agree with half of his votes.
Kill Nisani.
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yo let's get this activity going. I don't want to triple post but as long as there are things to say I will say them.
Hiroruby did not look like scum to me. RoL doesn't either, though both players were highly inactive. The way they both received votes is more telling of their alignment than anything else.
If you look at who voted Hiroruby (and who is voting RoL) you'll see that both very town-like people and very scummy people have voted them. This is a strong suggestion that hiroruby/RoL is town, NOT scum.
DCLXVI has received votes in a similar pattern. While it's less certain that DCLXVI is town (to me, at least) I think we should consider other targets today. Other targets do exist, and the primary reason I'm wary of pushing DCLXVI now is that both bum and nisani are pushing for his lynch. Palmar, Nisani, and bum agreeing on something? I didn't see that happening, and I would bet quite a bit of money that both town and scum alignments are represented in that group of three players.
I'm not certain that Palmar is town at this point, since his scum play is somewhat erratic and he could very well just be going solo and bussing all his scumbuddies (as he did in SMG) but since his scum play is relatively inferior to his town play and he hasn't done anything scummy yet, I tend to believe that he isn't scum. I haven't voiced that openly until now since I'm just curious who will attack Palmar and who won't, but he is one of my strongest town reads on behavior alone.
Finally, take a look at these lists:
All players in green have flipped town (I've listed hyshes as town because Drazerk's flip basically confirms him)
All players in red voted on the biggest bandwagons, all townies, at least three times. Bolded in black are players who voted twice. Players italicized voted once.
Kenpachi(14): bumatlarge, DCLXVI, prplhz, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Palmar, GreYMisT, risk.nuke, Tyrran, Lemonwalrus Hiroruby, sinani206, Nisani201, Cyber_Cheese
sinani206(14): chaoser, GreYMisT, Lanaia, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Cyber_Cheese, risk.nuke, LSB, Tyrran, Forumite, Lemonwalrus, Zephirdd, HarbingerOfDoom, hyshes
Drazerk (10): prplhz, HarbingerOfDoom, xsksc, Lanaia, Cyber_Cheese, DCLXVI, Forumite, Zephirdd, Nisani201, sinani206
prplhz (12): Forumite, Drazerk, GreYMisT, Nisani201, hyshes, bumatlarge, risk.nuke, Kibibit, Sabin010, Lanaia, xsksc, Coagulation
If you are a townie on this list, please step up your game and stop derping around. Do the right thing and lynch nisani and bumatlarge today. In addition, take a look at this list and see if you notice anything. If you do, let me know. Thank you.
My best scumreads are all among these players:
#1. Nisani201 (voted 3 times on the biggest bandwagons) #2. bumatlarge (voted twice on the biggest bandwagons) #3. Lemonwalrus (voted twice on the biggest bandwagons) #4. chaoser/MrZentor (voted once on the biggest bandwagons)
The one who looks best from the voting record alone is chaoser.
I would bet quite a bit that at least one of my top 3 is scum, and a pretty modest amount that at least two are.
These players:
GreYMisT Cyber_Cheese Lanaia Forumite
Look like dumb town to me atm, but I could very well be wrong. All of these players have voted THREE(!!) times on the biggest bandwagons. One could potentially make a valid case for all of these players to be scum, but I very much doubt more than one, or at most two is.
Please clean up your play if you are town.
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yo RoL did you vote nisani/bum?
I'm all for lynching the people who bandwagoned like mad but we have to discriminate between who is more likely to be scum and who is less likely to be.
Sure, it'd be a great way to get rid of the hard decision by just killing them all now, but I think we should lynch the ones who are scummiest first and then with those flips we can start pushing into the rest of the group tomorrow.
In fact, most of the people who were on all 3 lynches are probably idiot townies. They wouldn't want that much attention on themselves. I think we need to more carefully consider those who were only on two lynches.
Basically, I say we start with nisani/bum/chaoser. I know chaoser wanted to vote prpl, so he would've actually been on two lynch bandwagons. Scum like to split their votes between two candidates when both are town. I know this because I did it myself as scum. My team would split, one half pushing one townie for lynch and the other pushing the other. No matter who won, a townie would die.
In this game, if both win, two townies die.
So let's look at the lynch and see who, if anyone, had at least 3 votes and was on either kenpachi or sinani day 1 but not the other on the same day, and then was also on prpl day 2:
Day 1:
Kenpachi(14): bumatlarge, DCLXVI, prplhz, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Palmar, GreYMisT, risk.nuke, Tyrran, Lemonwalrus Hiroruby, sinani206, Nisani201, Cyber_Cheese
sinani206(14): chaoser (would have been on prpl day 2), GreYMisT, Lanaia, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Cyber_Cheese, risk.nuke, LSB, Tyrran, Forumite, Lemonwalrus, Zephirdd, HarbingerOfDoom, hyshes
Day 2:
prplhz (12): Forumite, Drazerk, GreYMisT, Nisani201, hyshes, bumatlarge, risk.nuke, Kibibit, Sabin010, Lanaia, xsksc, Coagulation (would have been chaoser here as vote 13)
From this vote pattern alone some of the 3 voters (such as Cyber_Cheese and GreYMisT) are less likely to be scum (though we can't rule it out)
This is on the assumption that scum would split their vote to avoid as much suspicion as possible.
This means we should focus on:
bumatlarge, nisani, chaoser/mrzentor, forumite, lanaia.
All names I think are likely to bleed red.
If I missed something, let me know.
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explain why bum is unlikely to be scum.
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On November 23 2011 18:54 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 18:47 Palmar wrote:On November 23 2011 18:46 Forumite wrote:On November 23 2011 18:37 Tyrran wrote: @Palmar Now that 2 medics have been revealed, and none protected you, your hit claim looks more scummy. Mafia is confirmed to have 2KP ( as i dont think any vigilante would have been stupid enough to shoot drazerk/risk.nuke), but it would be rather easy for mafia to only use one, and for you to claim hit. A third medic is rather unlikely dont you think ? Palmar could also be a one-shot veteran, which means he was still shot, but survived despite there not being any medics involved. I have already explained that there is no mechanic in my role that allows me to survive night hits. Okay, then either DCL is not a medic, we have a third medic, or you are lying. I have a theory on the 3 deaths. The mechanic that is there to prevent people from claiming could have something to do with it, either claiming gives scum more nightkills, or they have a role that can target a player, and kills them if they have a role, but has no effect on vanilla townies.
at this point Palmar is very likely to not be lying.
There would need to be 2 town KP for mafia to only have 1 KP, and thus Palmar to be lying. I really doubt they would withhold a night 1 hit just to let Palmar claim it.
Why the fuck people are still seriously considering that Palmar is lying (and for it to be relevant to discussion) is beyond me.
The simple fact of the matter is, we can't find out whether Palmar is lying or not right now. We go with what we know, and our best leads. Our best leads do not lead us to Palmar being scum. They lead us to Nisani and bum being very probable scum.
Screw your heads back on your necks and think this through for a bit.
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On November 23 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote:Assuming you are correct about DCLXVI Tyrran, this is Nisani's vote record: (I think putting it in quotes stops ZBot from picking up on it) Show nested quote +##Vote: Forumite ##Vote: Kenpachi ##Vote: Palmar ##Vote: Drazerk ##Vote: wherebugsgo ##Vote: prplhz ##Vote: DCLXVI ##Vote: RebirthOfLeGenD
RoL, WBG and Forumite all look pretty good to me btw.
I would believe those are all townies.
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On November 23 2011 19:39 Zephirdd wrote:..three kills? Shame, risk.nuke and Harbinger both died. nuke was my strongest town read this game in fact. I'd vote for DCL, but as Tyrran pointed out, it is also more likely that he is a blue rather than a red. But then, we either have a third medic, Palmar is lying or DCL is lying(Or the possibility that we do have a third medic AND Palmar is lying, or that DCL lies but there are two more medics, and etc etc etc, lets take the three first possibilities for now). One thing we should know though, is: Did someone else get hit?for the record, I don't think neither are lying and that there are actually more medics ingameI don't mean only tonight, but also night 1. This should be important to know how much KP mafia actually has IMO. as for votings, I'll follow Forumite and Tyrran here- ##Vote: Coagulation ##Vote: xsksc ##Vote: Sabin010(I think it's needless to say that Tyrran is my strongest townread atm right?) Also, I like Forumite's theory. I'm inclined more to the "someone has a role that they can target a player", but there must be some limitation to that. Lanaia is known to have a role since day 1 and she isn't dead, and her ability seems powerful enough to not want her alive. Well, that also makes it very hard to role claim in order to save yourself from a lynch, because that would just kill you anyway. I also want to hear from bumatlarge a bit, his opinion on the game and who he thinks is scum/town. No opinion on the WBG/Nisani case yet.
you're scum.
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##vote Zephirdd
If any of you read that post and honestly get a town read off it, I pity you.
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also ##vote Forumite
for being repeatedly thick/repeatedly pushing stupid lynches.
Stop it. Really. It's starting to get annoying. If you're actually town, take your head out of your ass and look at what you're doing.
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I didn't read his last vote post.
I'm unsure on Forumite, but he's pushing scum agenda. He needs to be set straight.
I'm acting on logic, my instinct tells me he's the most retarded townie in existence. I can't make an exception for anyone.
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If you can find a better way of setting him straight than putting the fear of lynch into him, then go ahead and tell me.
I'd actually be completely fine with lynching him regardless of alignment because he's actually doing far more to help scum win than probably scum themselves are.
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insta-win lol.
you never explained what makes bum unlikely to be scum.
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Palmar, stop being a dick.
This is the only thing in your filter other than:
On November 23 2011 18:31 Palmar wrote: State of the game:
bumatlarge - unlikely to be mafia, completely worthless atm though
As for the lynch today, Bumatlarge's post is really weird. He could have posted that at any point during the night but chose to do it right before/after the night post. Notice that he's taking a pro-stance both towards myself and LSB, who should have died that night (♥). However, it would be premature to try to lynch Bumatlarge based on his. There is a possibility he may be the mafia godfather, but at the moment I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and move on. Now that he has taken a stance with townies, I think he cannot be much of a distraction.
That's not very convincing.
I still think he's scum. Look at his voting patterns.
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Omfg this game...makes me want to pull my hair out
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STOP VOTING ROL.
You all saw how your retarded lynches based on inactivity and "lack of contribution" turned out. Drazerk, sinani, prpl all flipped town. I give RoL greater than a 90% chance to flip town. Don't push his lynch. He is not pushing a scum agenda. If he was, he wouldn't want the amount of attention he'd receive with 7 simultaneous votes.
I know that well myself, seeing as I played scum with him in the last game I played.
Palmar: I don't care if you call me stupid, I will not be attempting to read between the lines for you on why bumatlarge is town. There are like three possibilities to me, none of which I trust. I go with analysis. I think he's scum.
Nisani, chaoser, and Zephirrd should be the other main targets for today.
Forumite seems to acknowledge that my vote on him was warranted. Please play more carefully. Don't push scum agenda while appearing to harbor town motives. Otherwise, when there's no better leads we'll probably kill you.
##unvote Forumite
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I disagree 100% with everything Nisani has said this game, what do you say about that?
RoL is not scum. Try coming up with your own ideas for once. The fact that you're actually entertaining Nisani's ideas, of all people, is honestly blowing my mind right now.
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I'm not 100% sure he's scum, but I'm 100% sure he's dumb.
That's reason enough to discount his opinions. I'm 95% sure he's scum and nothing he's said so far has made sense.
You don't need to know someone is scum to ignore them. Their thoughts don't matter if they're consistently wrong. Right now, for example, yours aren't mattering for much.
I really doubt RoL is scum. Really really really doubt it. If he is actually scum then I'll probably need to get my head checked.
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On November 24 2011 08:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Wait a minute. How exactly do you figure Chaoser would have voted Prplhz? He barely even mentions him in the filter linked here. FoS Wherebugsgo
he posted it after he was replaced and then edited it out.
Someone quoted it.
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On November 24 2011 08:43 Cyber_Cheese wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Rest of post] +Day 1:
Kenpachi(14): bumatlarge, DCLXVI, prplhz, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Palmar, GreYMisT, risk.nuke, Tyrran, Lemonwalrus Hiroruby, sinani206, Nisani201, Cyber_Cheese
sinani206(14): chaoser (would have been on prpl day 2), GreYMisT, Lanaia, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Cyber_Cheese, risk.nuke, LSB, Tyrran, Forumite, Lemonwalrus, Zephirdd, HarbingerOfDoom, hyshes
Day 2:
prplhz (12): Forumite, Drazerk, GreYMisT, Nisani201, hyshes, bumatlarge, risk.nuke, Kibibit, Sabin010, Lanaia, xsksc, Coagulation (would have been chaoser here as vote 13) From this vote pattern alone some of the 3 voters (such as Cyber_Cheese and GreYMisT) are less likely to be scum (though we can't rule it out)
This is on the assumption that scum would split their vote to avoid as much suspicion as possible.
This means we should focus on:
bumatlarge, nisani, chaoser/mrzentor, forumite, lanaia.
All names I think are likely to bleed red.
If I missed something, let me know. Those requirements seem very arbitrary. Can you explain why you chose them?[/QUOTE]
It's not arbitrary, I explained it already. I know it from experience myself when I am scum; the best way to avoid suspicion is to avoid being on the same bandwagon as your scumbuddies on the same day.
Thus, you can reasonably expect some of the scum on each of the wagons, but not all of them on one. That would draw too much suspicion. So, from that, I tend to rule out most of the people who were on both Kenpachi and Sinani. They're very unlikely to be scum IMO (and behavioral tells give me more confidence in this as well, it's not just the vote pattern.)
In addition, all of the people I pointed out as having this vote pattern have pushed scum agenda far more than town agenda. They are a detriment to town and need to die; if they are townies, they will realize this and (hopefully) shape up.
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EBWODP:
On November 24 2011 08:43 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Those requirements seem very arbitrary. Can you explain why you chose them?
It's not arbitrary, I explained it already. I know it from experience myself when I am scum; the best way to avoid suspicion is to avoid being on the same bandwagon as your scumbuddies on the same day.
Thus, you can reasonably expect some of the scum on each of the wagons, but not all of them on one. That would draw too much suspicion. So, from that, I tend to rule out most of the people who were on both Kenpachi and Sinani. They're very unlikely to be scum IMO (and behavioral tells give me more confidence in this as well, it's not just the vote pattern.)
In addition, all of the people I pointed out as having this vote pattern have pushed scum agenda far more than town agenda. They are a detriment to town and need to die; if they are townies, they will realize this and (hopefully) shape up.
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I'm not parroting Palmar.
That's something scum keep saying. (aka Nisani)
Indeed if you notice, Palmar and I have opposing views on RoL.
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DCLXVI can you explain what Palmar has done that advances a scum agenda?
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I have two, Nisani and bumatlarge.
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or replace bum with Zephirrd/DCLXVI, I don't care.
Also I don't understand how people are saying he's confirmed blue. No one is confirmed anything except hyshes.
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Nisani could be town, but then again even after being hammered he doesn't give a shit about the town wincon.
I need to read the last few pages. I suggest you all look closely at Zentor, bumatlarge, Zephirrd.
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On November 25 2011 05:14 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +No, you don't.
Now, I would like you to write a big post on the current situation of the game.
Additionally, I would like you to either retract or confirm chaoser's claim that you are vanilla town. I think we need to kill a mafia badly and I am mostly if not entirely partially vanilla town.
wtf?
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Palmar rage so cute ♥
##vote MrZentor
Sticking with my gut here, his posts have been sporadic and sucky since he subbed in. I thought chaoser was sure scum, I'm not going to drop that read anymore. Let's kill this guy, since he has no intention of furthering town agenda.
I will also support a Zephirdd lynch today.
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Alright, I'm going to go ahead and say I think Forumite is scum now.
He was completely fine with bandwagoning townies on day 1 and day 2. What he posts has never made sense at all this game. Now, he's shying away from the popular lynch targets and he's attacking Palmar for again, really stupid reasons. Actually, I can't find his reasons other than "I dislike insulting morons."
He finds that Coag, Zentor, and Zephirdd are popular lynch targets, so he's afraid of pushing them. If you find this logic tenable, Forumite, why the fuck didn't you use it on day 1 and day 2?
No one lynched for mistakes and behavior. The day 1 and day 2 lynches were based on the fact that you're all incredibly retarded. That's all there was to it. Now you try and say that behavioral analysis doesn't work?
The sad fact is that if he actually thinks what he has been doing is behavioral analysis, he might actually be a townie who straight up believes this is true. I wouldn't put it past Forumite to be that dumb, since he's proved it in the past.
##vote Forumite
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On November 25 2011 08:00 Tyrran wrote: ##Vote: Cyber_cheeze ##Vote: Forumite
Cyber_cheeze: You visiting me still makes more sense as scum than as blue. Forumite : Your reasoning for saving Nisani makes no sense. I feel like you're a scum trying to look good. Also, see WBG post
Plus you both voted for palmar who is clearly the best town around here. How more scummy can you be ?
spelled cheese wrong, mate. I agree that he is rather scummy, though.
I think we might actually be getting ahead of ourselves. So many people look like scum right now that it's really tempting to vote for them all. I have fallen into this temptation myself, seeing as I want to kill all of Zentor/Zephirdd/Forumite/Cyber_Cheese right now.
I'll leave Forumite/Cyber till another day, I suppose.
##unvote Forumite
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scum never kill me cause people always suspect me regardless of alignment lol.
I was actually surprised I got shot n1 in LoTR, and in SMG when I had a correct scumread it was the serial killer who shot me and not scum.
You can't WIFOM yourself into trying to figure out scum reads, only scum know what scum want. So, the fact that you're trying to reason this out based on what scum to do is very suspicious.
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On November 25 2011 08:23 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 08:17 wherebugsgo wrote: scum never kill me cause people always suspect me regardless of alignment lol.
I was actually surprised I got shot n1 in LoTR, and in SMG when I had a correct scumread it was the serial killer who shot me and not scum.
You can't WIFOM yourself into trying to figure out scum reads, only scum know what scum want. So, the fact that you're trying to reason this out based on what scum to do is very suspicious. I´m always wary of WIFOM, but I think this is one of the few times where the situation was simple enough to read. We´ll know about Nisani in a few hours, but if Nisani is scum, then scum don´t mind him dying.
first part: no, you can never figure out scum motivations like that unless you are scum yourself.
second part: why thank you, captain obvious.
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On November 25 2011 08:29 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 08:22 Tyrran wrote:On November 25 2011 08:12 Forumite wrote:On November 25 2011 08:00 Tyrran wrote: ##Vote: Cyber_cheeze ##Vote: Forumite
Cyber_cheeze: You visiting me still makes more sense as scum than as blue. Forumite : Your reasoning for saving Nisani makes no sense. I feel like you're a scum trying to look good. Also, see WBG post
Plus you both voted for palmar who is clearly the best town around here. How more scummy can you be ? Why doesn´t it make sense? If Nisani was Scum, wouldn´t Scum have killed Palmar or WBG, or someone else actually out to lynch palmar, in order to get some pressure off of him? Shooting those NOT pushing Nisani means that Nisani dies, it´s simple and direct, and if Nisani is Town then it´s also Pro-Scum to do this, because 5/6 of the day was spent dealing with Nisani. We always lynch our first 12 hours before deadline, then rush secondary lynches, so one obvious target for the day means Town basically waste the day. Why vote now, and not a few hours ago when I posted the analysis? Because you just voted for palmar. And as i said before, Scum DID SHOOT FOR THOSE pushing Nisani. EVERY NIGTH some one voting for Nisani got hit. How can you say they did not target those pushing for him. Shooting palmar N2 would be bad as he was obv going to be protected again, so they went for drazerk who voted twice for him. Yeah, I figured it was me voting for Palmar that triggered it. You really don´t like anyone doubting him. I´m leaning towards Drazerk being a vigihit, that would make sense with 3 nightkills rather than the 2 of N1. Even if Drazerk was a mafia hit, killing risk and Harbringer did nothing at all for Nisani, none of them voted, cared or even mentioned Nisani. There must have been better targets, targets that were on Nisani without being likely medic protects.
dude, where are you pulling this shit from?
How can you assume Drazerk was a vig hit? Why are you making unnecessary assumptions about the game and trying to use inconclusive evidence to conclude things that are very far from being concrete?
You're being incredibly dumb if you're a townie and you're shedding plenty of doubt if you're scum.
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##unvote bumatlarge ##vote Forumite
On November 25 2011 08:39 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 08:37 Tyrran wrote: Why would any vigi hit Drazerk when after he claimed Mason. That doesnt remotely makes sense. Mafia killing two almost confirmed town ( drazerk and risk.nuke) makes a lot of sense on the other hand. Why assume the opposite ? There is always the chance that there were no Masons in the game and Drazerk/hyshes were actually mafia fakeclaiming Masons. Risky as hell, but would have paid off. Drazerk dieing 100% confirms hyshes as a blue(or green?). Just pointing it out...
nice soft-defend mate
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Yes, but you keep talking about the scum kills as if you know exactly how they happened.
If you were interested in a fully transparent and encompassing discussion about the scum kills you would realize that any conclusion is logically viable. Since there are only two conclusions, both with opposite motivations, it's WIFOM.
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damn it greymist burying my post with your top of the page headlining abilities
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On November 25 2011 09:29 Nisani201 wrote: Can we speed up the nightpost if we get a unanimous agreement to do so?
don't bother, I oppose speeding it up.
On November 25 2011 09:30 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 09:26 Forumite wrote:On November 25 2011 09:16 xsksc wrote:On November 25 2011 09:09 GreYMisT wrote: the reason behind night kills should not be discussed, too easy for scum to use WIFOM to do that. My god, what if palmar is still alive becasue he's scum! but what if mafia wanted us to think that?! but what if they knew we would think that they thought that.....
see? BUT WHAT IF THEY KNOW THAT WE KNOW THAT THEY KNOW THAT WE KNOW?! ....You know? I don´t know Okay, I guess we´re fed up about WIFOM. What do we do now? I think we should all decide wether or not we want to lynch MrZentor. IMO its the best way to move forward in our current state. chaoser getting replaced left us in a serious situation, and we have been putting this off for a while. his flip should hopefully give us enough info to go on with the next day.
I agree with this. We should lynch him at the very least today.
I'd be very much in support of a Zephirdd second lynch as well.
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On November 25 2011 09:43 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 09:29 Nisani201 wrote: Can we speed up the nightpost if we get a unanimous agreement to do so? You are not getting an unanimous agreement, because I´m against it. We have another day to discuss, we shouldn´t throw that away. There´s time until you are finally lynched, why don´t you help us during the remaining time? MrZentor's tricky. If it was Chaoser, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, that he would mess around a while but soon pick up his game and do something amazing a few days in. With MrZentor we instead got more of the same. Does this make him a scum who lurk to avoid attention, or a new Townie who is unsure about what to do? He´s still only has a single page in his filter, so little to go on.
dude, you really love WIFOM.
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I would....but then I'm me.
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I love how you ignore the two townie possibility.
It's possible they're both townies, but I give Nisani a better chance to be scum.
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Forumite do you even know what a chainsaw defense is?
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On November 25 2011 19:43 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote: Forumite do you even know what a chainsaw defense is? He´s attacking those voting him, so close enough. The chainsaw defence is you and Tyrran going to Palmars defence whenever anyone doubts him. Look back to my fakevote, minutes after both of you jumped forward and questioned my alignment. Anyway this is not about what you and Tyrran did, I´m voting Palmar because he´s attacking anyone doubting him and threatening to give up if we don´t follow his lead. It´s an underhanded tactic, and I don´t like it. It definetly doesn´t help Town right now.
Tyrran and I are only chainsaw defending Palmar if the following are true:
1. All 3 of us are scum 2. We defend Palmar not by actually defending him but ignoring him and attacking you instead
Neither of those things are true, I know that for a fact.
Please stop spouting garbage.
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On November 25 2011 20:21 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:12 Tyrran wrote:On November 25 2011 20:08 Forumite wrote:On November 25 2011 20:01 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 25 2011 19:43 Forumite wrote:On November 25 2011 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote: Forumite do you even know what a chainsaw defense is? He´s attacking those voting him, so close enough. The chainsaw defence is you and Tyrran going to Palmars defence whenever anyone doubts him. Look back to my fakevote, minutes after both of you jumped forward and questioned my alignment. Anyway this is not about what you and Tyrran did, I´m voting Palmar because he´s attacking anyone doubting him and threatening to give up if we don´t follow his lead. It´s an underhanded tactic, and I don´t like it. It definetly doesn´t help Town right now. Tyrran and I are only chainsaw defending Palmar if the following are true: 1. All 3 of us are scum 2. We defend Palmar not by actually defending him but ignoring him and attacking you instead Neither of those things are true, I know that for a fact. Please stop spouting garbage. I can´t know if 1 is true, and 2 isn´t required, it´s just a general sense of the defence. You can´t honestly say that the last turn, Palmar calling everyone bad, isn´t more focused on the voter rather than defending Palmar. This isn´t an exact science, scum know what Chainsaw Defence is and will try to avoid it, but this affair with Palmar giving up, and you and Tyrran defending him unquestioningly, reminds me of a Scum Chainsaw Defence, because of the coordination and focus on throwing doubt on the attacker. Actually, its closer to a Town Chainsaw defense. Palmar is hugely likely to be town ( if you are not convinced, please carefully read his filter until you are), and is by far the best town player. Anyone trying to lynch him or start a bandwagon against him is either scum or really bad, and thus is a good candidate for lynching. Read his filter until I´m convinced? Really? Is "Palmar is Town" a big truth that can not be contradicted? You know he´s been doing a few weird things in the thread, this latest with giving up obviously the biggest one, and I´m not comfortable with letting it go. Palmar has acted Town, but he´s also been leading Town to absolutely nothing, we´re still no closer to finding Scum. I want to make sure that Palmar isn´t deceiving us, instead of just hope for the best and follow him blindly.
he's not doing anything weird. He's acting like a frustrated townie.
You, on the other hand, are either braindead or scum. It's too bad that each is equally likely, otherwise we'd know what you are by now.
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rofl you don't need a blue claim to know Palmar is very likely to be town, you just need a brain.
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Who cares what he's flipping at this point? He's guaranteed to flip, it's pointless to discuss Nisani till he actually flips. Good god.
Right now the focus of the debate should be on whether or not Forumite, Zephirdd, and MrZentor should die today. I am of the opinion that they all need to die.
All in favor, please vote them. If you would like additional reiteration/explanation/handholding, please ask me. Or, just fucking read the thread yourself.
This game is incredibly frustrating, all your heads are so incredibly thick.
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what's the point of this mass claim?
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I'm a vanilla town.
yay I'm the most special
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mmkay, I was right about why you said that then ^^ I didn't make it overly obvious since I didn't want other people correctly seeing what I saw. (namely, scum)
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##vote Sabin010 ##vote Coagulation ##vote DCLXVI
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yeah, I want Zentor to die.
If he doesn't die it'll be sad.
Also this game is sad. So much inactivity...
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Lanaia have you claimed in full yet? Now might be a good time to do that.
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yeah xsksc can now protect like 3 of us lol. Pretty awesome.
Let's lynch one more!
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ma bad.
Coag will get modkilled, let's lynch Sabin010 and DCLXVI. Lanaia if you're still around it would be great if you just pile extra votes onto Sabin.
That extra lynch will let xsksc protect another person (hopefully) and so we can protect multiple people tonight from hits. Scum will have to double hit to take out key town players.
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yeah I want you to vote Sabin010, if you're willing.
I'm not completely sure he's scum but given the number of prots we have for tonight it can't hurt to kill him and eliminate a possibility. I give him a pretty good chance to flip scum though, given how he has played and posted.
Hopefully we've scored at least 2 scum kills today.
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actually no no no wait.
I realized Zephirdd has 5 votes, Sabin has 6. That's almost the same. We can potentially lynch Zephirdd instead and I have a better scumread on him.
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oh damn, I didn't notice that.
In that case I don't really care if anything further happens today.
xsksc is the target that is protected random or can you choose the priority?
e.g. if you choose to protect me and palmar, and both of us get hit, do you know which one will live?
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yo RoL let's wait till the flip.
What do you think of Zephirdd?
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I'd prefer if Zephirdd died but I'm fine with Sabin dying too.
Although tbh after rereading I'm not as confident on sabin as I was before.
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he's getting modkilled, who cares?
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I don't really want to lynch coag because he's getting modkilled.
If he wasn't getting modkilled I'd still want him dead though, as a vet he's done 0.
Last time someone did something like that it was RoL on my scumteam in TMMM lol
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yeah but it's only an extra chance at a protect.
xsksc you should PM zona your question about your role.
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you can ask Zona whenever. It's better if you do it immediately so that we know. Full disclosure ftw.
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wow. wowowowowowow
Nisani+Forumite town. Wow. Wow.
Really?
At least Coag was scum, I was right that it seemed weird he was doing that (lol RoL)
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aww man I liked the DT better. Oh well.
He did. He's a liar. Let's kill him tomorrow.
Zephirdd and Sabin should also die tomorrow.
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C_C is one of those players who always rolls scum.
Like wiggles.
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yeah they both just chose to be dumb about it.
However this gives us good insight into the rest of the players.
I am now very confident, for example, that Sabin010 is probably scum. He didn't vote Coag. Neither did DCLXVI, who is probably also scum. Neither did hyshes, but he voted the other two.
We kill those three tomorrow. Sabin, hyshes, and DCLXVI. They need to die.
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oh derp I'm dumb. okay not hyshes (I knew there was a reason lolol)
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oh GreYMisT! You didn't vote him either!
Guess you're dying tomorrow.
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yep!
There's only 6 players who didn't vote Coag. One of them is hyshes, who is confirmed town. Another one is Lanaia, who voted Sabin. A third is xsksc, who claimed a doctor role,
This means the scumteam is most likely to be GreYMisT, Sabin010, DCLXVI, with some fourth person we need to figure out.
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I think that fourth scum could be cyber cheese.
Did I just break the game?
I hope I did.
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On November 26 2011 11:29 GreYMisT wrote: I already stated my reasons for not voting coag, and they were also supported by you actually.
Right, but you think it's just a matter of convenience that you have been on every bandwagon this game, you have had no real assertiveness nor original opinions, and you were one of the 6 people who did not vote a person who just flipped scum like two minutes ago?
Yeah, I'm not gonna chalk that up to coincidence. At least half of the 6 who didn't vote Coag are scum. If Cyber is not scum then it's possible Lanaia could be.
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On November 26 2011 11:38 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 11:07 xsksc wrote: Wait a sec, didn't Cyber_cheese claim town tracker? Yes Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 11:10 wherebugsgo wrote: aww man I liked the DT better. Oh well.
He did. He's a liar. Let's kill him tomorrow.
Zephirdd and Sabin should also die tomorrow. It wasn't a lie. Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 11:24 xsksc wrote:On November 26 2011 11:12 GreYMisT wrote:On November 26 2011 11:07 xsksc wrote: Wait a sec, didn't Cyber_cheese claim town tracker? why so he did. He called it something different though, "town obsessive stalker" I think he has some sort of mafia tracker role. On November 26 2011 11:03 Zona wrote:
Town Tracker
You were obsessed with a certain actor during your childhood, and ended up stalking this person whenever you could.
Kibibit's role sounds a lot like obsessive stalker, no? I'm guessing Cyber got a similar role pm, but as scum. His night 1 visit would make a LOT more sense if he is. I could totally be wrong here, I'm extremely tired. I'll give him a proper look tomorow morning. Suffice it to say that the only things our role PM's had in common were town in the name and the tracker ability. Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 11:27 wherebugsgo wrote: yep!
There's only 6 players who didn't vote Coag. One of them is hyshes, who is confirmed town. Another one is Lanaia, who voted Sabin. A third is xsksc, who claimed a doctor role,
This means the scumteam is most likely to be GreYMisT, Sabin010, DCLXVI, with some fourth person we need to figure out. So are you claiming that DCLXVI and I as scum buddies both had reason to visit Tyrran night 1?
Okay, you're not a liar.
You're still scum though!
Do you think DCLXVI and Sabin010 are scum?
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On November 26 2011 11:38 bumatlarge wrote:Coagulation was the only scum there? Really? We should have lynched more! Maybe mafia only has 2 KP left. Assuming that, lylo is at least in at most 4 days, if we only lynch one per day and hit no scum. Looking at coagulation's filter, there is really hardly much there. This one post Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 12:31 Coagulation wrote: Well looks like we lost the one voice of reason in a giant screaming derp fest.
wasnt LSB taking bets that he would be killed night 1? Should probably go back and see who responded to that and how. indicates that mafia probably was trying to use LSB dying as a method of lynching people. Something tells me that this makes palmar much more likely to be town. We should probably glance at people who voted coag before day 3. Day 3, mafia probably suspected coag would get modkilled, so later votes shouldn't hold any water. + Show Spoiler + Day 1 Consistent votes: Forumite, Kenpachi, Lemonwalrus, Drazerk Temp votes: Palmar, wherebugsgo, chaoser
Day 2 Cyber_Cheese, RebirthOfLeGenD, bumatlarge, Tyrran
I think the most notable thing is how few people voted him, when he was pretty open about about not helping the town. Worth knowing.
I'm like 90% sure all the people who ever voted Coag are town.
It leaves 6 playes who didn't vote him. 1 is confirmed town, 1 is a doctor claim and the remaining 4 are all scummy as fuck.
We lynch five people tomorrow. DCLXVI, Sabin010, GreYMisT, Cyber_Cheese, Lanaia.
I'm 95% confident least three of them are scum. If I'm right, all four of the remaining scum should be there.
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On November 26 2011 11:44 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 11:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 26 2011 11:29 GreYMisT wrote: I already stated my reasons for not voting coag, and they were also supported by you actually. Right, but you think it's just a matter of convenience that you have been on every bandwagon this game, you have had no real assertiveness nor original opinions, and you were one of the 6 people who did not vote a person who just flipped scum like two minutes ago? Yeah, I'm not gonna chalk that up to coincidence. At least half of the 6 who didn't vote Coag are scum. If Cyber is not scum then it's possible Lanaia could be. If i recall correctly forumite was also on numerous bandwagons and took his vote off coag (granted to prevent a hammer, but still), and yet also flipped vanilla town. So it isnt apparently out of the question. The three bandwagons im going to assume you are talking about are the sinani, kenpachi, and prphlz bandwagons. I dont really count the sinani bandwagon. the kenpachi one seemed like the correct play at the time, as he was already acting a bit scummy+it was the only way for us to make sense of the lanaia fiasco. plus that one could have been avoided if he had claimed before he died. prphlz also could have saved himself by doing that, but also chose not to. That bandwagon i will admit being off, however even you could see how his behaviour that I pointed out (posting in all caps, elicting emotional responses, ect..) were all valid reasons.
actually I'm talking about today's bandwagons too.
If you're scum you know all of these players are town. We lynched Forumite because he was on all of them. We'll lynch you for the same reason.
And no, they were not valid reasons and I repeated myself plenty of times trying to get people to understand that. Half the people in this game don't know how to scumhunt, the rest are just twiddling their thumbs.
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I don't give a shit what DCLXVI claimed. I don't care. He's scum.
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I'm getting increasingly convinced I will never see you think logically.
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you know, since me and Palmar being scumbuddies would mean we both decided to bus Coag and all.
jesus.
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by the other 4, are you including Lanaia?
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Lanaia you're dying tomorrow, just fyi.
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scum would never shoot you.
You're one of 5 nonconfirmed players who didn't vote Coag. You're about as scummy as they get.
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On November 26 2011 17:46 DCLXVI wrote: Why wouldn't you put lanaia as pretty much confirmed town? We have seen what her role can do and its seems to be the perfect town aligned counterpart to Coag's role. I cannot imagine there being 2 mafia magicians or whatever.
I think I will finish claiming in the morning. There is no point doing so now. I will advise detectives to not waste a check on me, I am a miller.
Wow.
You are scum. Millers don't know they're millers.
Good god you're bad.
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On November 26 2011 17:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 16:51 wherebugsgo wrote: scum would never shoot you.
You're one of 5 nonconfirmed players who didn't vote Coag. You're about as scummy as they get. You sir are playing a beautiful game.
What can I say, I elevate it to an art form.
screw all you townies who doubted my read on DCLXVI because he had the shittiest blue claim in all of existence.
If I die tonight and DCLXVI is not lynched tomorrow....I really don't know what I'll do.
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On November 26 2011 18:54 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 17:46 DCLXVI wrote: Why wouldn't you put lanaia as pretty much confirmed town? We have seen what her role can do and its seems to be the perfect town aligned counterpart to Coag's role. I cannot imagine there being 2 mafia magicians or whatever.
I think I will finish claiming in the morning. There is no point doing so now. I will advise detectives to not waste a check on me, I am a miller. This makes a lot of sense. No reason for lyching her.
I sincerely hope you are trolling right now.
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On November 26 2011 21:25 xsksc wrote: Good morning. Zona confirmed for me that if I protect 3 targets and 2 are hit, my protection on all of them fails. Palmar and bugs, do you guys have any input on how I should use this tonight? My plan thus far has been protect the fuck out of Palmar, but it's getting a bit more complicated now.
Protect only one person.
And do not tell any of us who it is.
Leave your eyes open though, and read the thread carefully. If you do that you'll probably know who scum would most likely shoot.
Although, I think you already know.
Realize tomorrow, we can win. Protect whoever you think will give us the best chance to win. The best townie.
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On November 27 2011 06:54 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:48 hyshes wrote:On November 27 2011 04:16 DCLXVI wrote: Why must you assume that every role works the same in this game as it does in others. I know I am a miller because that is part of my role. I would not claim miller if I was scum because of this response, I felt it was necessary to make the best out of our dts since their time is short. Easy to say after you made the mistake.. I told you before there was a drawback to my role, this is it. @WBG Are you seriously still considering lynching lanaia tomorrow?
Are you seriously still trying to appear townie?
Yeah, I'm considering lynching the five people who have been most anti-town this game. Yours is #1 now.
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choose two scum and then the one guy I'm telling you to protect.
That'll ensure that the protection succeeds.
Also if we have any vigilantes/KP roles, please shoot DCLXVI and Sabin010.
Xsksc, use the two scum protections as two of these players: Lanaia, GreYMisT, Zephirdd.
In order for them to make your protection fail they will have to shoot one of the players we want dead anyway.
Win-win situation, eh?
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and also if 4 of those are indeed scum they'll just gambit and shoot the one that isn't lol.
If it's sabin010, somehow, then lolololol
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that's a logical call.
But you and GreYMisT are still scum.
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Oh apologies, you voted Coag.
Only GreYMisT then, carry on.
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Cyber Cheese you're really bad at scum man, no offense.
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wow you bastards I told you GreYMisT was scum.
I caught Zephirdd too but damn Lanaia didn't vote Coag
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this should be a lesson for town not to derp so fucking hard.
omg...It was so incredibly hard to keep a solid scumread when players like Nisani, Forumite, and chaoser (yes you, chaoser, damn it) were masking scum who were legitimately destroying us.
We should've caught Greymist on day 2 but we couldn't because he slipped by every time one of you townies voted on the bandwagon.
the prpl, kenpachi, and sinani lynches were really horrible. Town play was bad and scum won entirely on that. Scum play wasn't even that impressive. Two modkills for inactivity, Cyber_Cheese playing like obv scum the entire game, GreYMisT on every town wagon, and Zephirdd making some really shitty calls day 2 and 3?
Come on that should've been the easiest town win ever and we threw it into the trash can.
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On November 30 2011 12:05 Lanaia wrote: wherebugsgo, I wasn't going to vote coag because he was being modkilled and didn't deserve a vote.
ugh. I knew grey was scum going into night. I thought lemon was scum but... ugh.
problem was you and a lot of the other townies never once made a correct call all game.
How are the rest of the townies supposed to determine your alignment if you keep trying to lynch people we think are town?
This was the huge problem for me with chaoser, Nisani, you, Drazerk, and Forumite. You guys were just pushing townies over and over with terrible reasoning and I'd look at the votelists and you guys would always be there.
Can't convince anyone of that when there's also 5 scum to deal with.
The only reason the game was close at all was because Zona was strict about the activity requirements and modkilled Coag and sabin. I caught Zephirdd on day 2? But literally no one could see it and I couldn't pressure him hard enough because the town was already such a mess to begin with.
It's frustrating when you're called a detriment to town and you watch the other townies destroy any and all progress you attempt to make. When you tell them to stop they turn around and attack you. This is what happened with me and Nisani+chaoser. I told them they were being dumb and anti-town and they turned around and attacked me.
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medics should always save the most vocal players who are the biggest threat to scum.
In this game one of the biggest threats was Palmar. He was correctly protected n1 and n2.
I had correct reads on day 2 and day 3 but no one was able to tell because we kept lynching townies instead.
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On November 30 2011 12:34 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 12:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 30 2011 12:05 Lanaia wrote: wherebugsgo, I wasn't going to vote coag because he was being modkilled and didn't deserve a vote.
ugh. I knew grey was scum going into night. I thought lemon was scum but... ugh. problem was you and a lot of the other townies never once made a correct call all game. How are the rest of the townies supposed to determine your alignment if you keep trying to lynch people we think are town? This was the huge problem for me with chaoser, Nisani, you, Drazerk, and Forumite. You guys were just pushing townies over and over with terrible reasoning and I'd look at the votelists and you guys would always be there. Can't convince anyone of that when there's also 5 scum to deal with. The only reason the game was close at all was because Zona was strict about the activity requirements and modkilled Coag and sabin. I caught Zephirdd on day 2? But literally no one could see it and I couldn't pressure him hard enough because the town was already such a mess to begin with. It's frustrating when you're called a detriment to town and you watch the other townies destroy any and all progress you attempt to make. When you tell them to stop they turn around and attack you. This is what happened with me and Nisani+chaoser. I told them they were being dumb and anti-town and they turned around and attacked me. Zephirdds posts were incredibly neutral and cautious early on, you should have picked up on that and pushed his lynch much harder if you believed he was scum. You can't just claim these things post-game.
yeah, I didn't push him very hard. I admit that.
That's my fault, but literally no one in the game ever considered him.
On November 23 2011 19:41 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 19:39 Zephirdd wrote:..three kills? Shame, risk.nuke and Harbinger both died. nuke was my strongest town read this game in fact. I'd vote for DCL, but as Tyrran pointed out, it is also more likely that he is a blue rather than a red. But then, we either have a third medic, Palmar is lying or DCL is lying(Or the possibility that we do have a third medic AND Palmar is lying, or that DCL lies but there are two more medics, and etc etc etc, lets take the three first possibilities for now). One thing we should know though, is: Did someone else get hit?for the record, I don't think neither are lying and that there are actually more medics ingameI don't mean only tonight, but also night 1. This should be important to know how much KP mafia actually has IMO. as for votings, I'll follow Forumite and Tyrran here- ##Vote: Coagulation ##Vote: xsksc ##Vote: Sabin010(I think it's needless to say that Tyrran is my strongest townread atm right?) Also, I like Forumite's theory. I'm inclined more to the "someone has a role that they can target a player", but there must be some limitation to that. Lanaia is known to have a role since day 1 and she isn't dead, and her ability seems powerful enough to not want her alive. Well, that also makes it very hard to role claim in order to save yourself from a lynch, because that would just kill you anyway. I also want to hear from bumatlarge a bit, his opinion on the game and who he thinks is scum/town. No opinion on the WBG/Nisani case yet. you're scum.
At the point I had posted this, I was so fed up with the game that I just said screw it, this guy is scum. If people don't read his post then it's their loss.
My fault for getting impatient and annoyed with town, but I felt like no matter what I said or did people would not listen.
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On November 30 2011 12:38 GreYMisT wrote: WBG: I was actually going to go along with your logic and lynch eveyone who didnt vote coag, including me, if i was still pressured the last day. in the hopes that we could lynch enough people that the platform would fail. Would have been hard, but awesome.
at some point I remember saying something like "if you lynch these five players all the scum will be dead" or something like that.
I was wrong, we'd have only scored 3, but the last one was Zephirdd and he was one of the ones I had considered subbing in for the others.
I actually never bothered to make the case on him for whatever reason, I don't even remember why. I was actually fairly angry at how the game was going.
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and also I was super mad you didn't get lynched, greymist. You were like one of the only players who was on every lynch except for Coag's. It was mind boggling to watch cyber get lynched but not you. I was like wtf??!?!?!
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meh whatever.
apologies town, I gave up after two days of trying to wade through things I couldn't understand. I should've tried harder.
gj scum.
EDIT: Also I disagree on you Cyber, I kinda missed you in the mess because I generally dismiss dumb stuff being said by people who have said dumb stuff as town before. (no offense). I knew that if you were scum it would be hard to tell you apart because it just is. Bad townies and scum often just look the same. When there are a ton of bad townies floating around it's even worse.
The tracker claim was horrible and you should've been lynched for it but the town was a disorganized mess. We couldn't tell head nor tail of anything that was going on because there was too much derping.
anyway,
Thanks Zona for hosting! and zbot you too u so cuuuuute
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there's no point in ever role claiming as scum unless it makes sense and serves a purpose.
I suppose if you suspect there's a rolecop you could probably roleclaim too but even so, if you get caught by the rolecop you just push for his lynch.
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On November 26 2011 11:27 wherebugsgo wrote: yep!
There's only 6 players who didn't vote Coag. One of them is hyshes, who is confirmed town. Another one is Lanaia, who voted Sabin. A third is xsksc, who claimed a doctor role,
This means the scumteam is most likely to be GreYMisT, Sabin010, DCLXVI, with some fourth person we need to figure out.
On November 26 2011 11:27 wherebugsgo wrote: I think that fourth scum could be cyber cheese.
Did I just break the game?
I hope I did.
Cyber that was before Nisani and Forumite flipped.
After Nisani and Forumite flipped I had posted the above.
I was wrong about DCL and Lanaia, it was Zephirdd in their stead.
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as long as townies like Forumite and nisani were alive I probably would've never noticed the actual scum.
It was so imperative that we killed those townies that I don't think I would've ever gotten a single scumread till the thread was clear of them.
That's probably why I never paid attention to your posts. Forumite and Nisani (and chaoser to some extent) were to me so distracting that anything you, Cyber, and Zephirdd did, while still pretty bad, was completely overshadowed by them.
If you note in my posts, I keep getting confused because there's like 9 people who kept doing dumb things over and over. You guys were always in those lists but there was always someone on town who was dumber.
It was just....so bad lol
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On November 30 2011 13:15 redFF wrote: ITT: wbg is a scumhunting god but died before he could lynch you all
-_-
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On November 30 2011 13:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Nisani wasn't even scummy, he just disagreed with Palmar.
lol you can't say that when you were scum.
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On November 30 2011 13:18 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 13:18 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 30 2011 13:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Nisani wasn't even scummy, he just disagreed with Palmar. lol you can't say that when you were scum. Go back and read that part in the game, it's true. Nobody had a legitimate case on him.
again, you can't say that when you were scum.
Most townies who play like nisani can get easily lynched because their very style of play is anti-town.
Hell, you could get me lynched too if I push the wrong people and I'm too loud about it. If you can prove I'm a distraction to town you can make a valid case that I'm anti-town and should be lynched.
The simple fact that we couldn't get proper scum reads until certain people were lynched should tell you enough about that.
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On November 16 2011 09:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Please elaborate how making cases out of nothing does anything to pressure scum?
As soon as you make a baseless case on a scummy or dummy townie they can begin fabricating analysis. In fact, you could lead the whole thread to believe your target is scum when there is no real reason for them to be scum in the first place.
I think we should approach this game more carefully. We have multiple lynches but we will be hurting ourselves if we end up lynching multiple townies instead of scum.
this is why chaoser was scummy to me.
Why make cases out of nothing? That's incredibly distracting.
On November 17 2011 10:02 Nisani201 wrote: Palmar needs to get lynched. His case against chaoser is stupid, and he has barely been doing anything throughout this game. His vote on Lanaia is also scummy.
##Vote: Palmar
On November 17 2011 00:53 Nisani201 wrote: OK, one bullshit case is bad enough. But two?
Enough with the FoS. Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite
On November 18 2011 05:28 Nisani201 wrote: WBG you are so wrong... I provided a reason for every single one my votes.
This is the definition of antitown.
Like four votes day 1, all substantiated with two lines or less.
It just creates a mess. None of these were productive. It just led to people thinking Nisani was scummy.
On November 18 2011 01:58 Nisani201 wrote: I just read through Drazerk's filter. He has been jumping on bandwagons and supporting bad lynches this whole game.
Seriously, why aren't more people voting for him?
##Vote: Drazerk
On November 17 2011 08:55 Nisani201 wrote: Just read through the thread. A lot of shit is going down.
But most of it is irrelevant. Kenpachi is not irrelevant. He should die.
##Vote: Kenpachi
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On November 30 2011 13:32 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 13:18 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 30 2011 13:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Nisani wasn't even scummy, he just disagreed with Palmar. lol you can't say that when you were scum. Yes you can. Scum often post logical and "correct" things that seem Pro-Town. It's not like the role PM causes them to start dropping hints that they are Scum in their posts.
yes, but as scum you have a bias because you know who is town and who isn't.
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On November 30 2011 13:40 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 13:37 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 30 2011 13:32 Ace wrote:On November 30 2011 13:18 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 30 2011 13:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Nisani wasn't even scummy, he just disagreed with Palmar. lol you can't say that when you were scum. Yes you can. Scum often post logical and "correct" things that seem Pro-Town. It's not like the role PM causes them to start dropping hints that they are Scum in their posts. yes, but as scum you have a bias because you know who is town and who isn't. And why does that matter if you're doing something that doesn't show that bias?
of course it matters.
The most anti-town players in this game were town!
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On December 01 2011 02:15 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:29 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2011 01:08 chaoser wrote: plays bad with shitty reads that caused chaos, blames others for playing bad thus causing your shitty reads.
that's a meme right?
Yawn. Not meta, just not optimal play. I expect some townies to play optimally. Anyway, it is irrelevant, your alignment was not of any big concern that game because you had no chance of joining that town group if you aligned yourself. I'm not blaming you, I specifically said that I had much to improve upon, that doesn't mean I can't point out things that went wrong. You made yourself a target on day 1. That's always an issue. You do realize that any definition of "optimal" is flawed because there's no way to measure that right? Not to mention, at any point in time, to expect people to play optimally is inherently flawed due to outside world factors. If you mean everyone should play in one specific manner that you consider optimal than I'd rather not play mafia anymore cause that's just silly. Coag and kenpachi should clearly just stop playing if people are going to lynch them straight up day 1 cause they are no where close to "optimal" play even though they're boss at not only catching mafia but shooting the shit out of them the meme was aimed at WBG btw. The way you both approached day 1 was so flawed with the tunneling and playing solely based on some misconceived notion about my "meta", not to mention the excessive tunneling on me. I was waiting and waiting for you guys to be like ok, I'm tunneling, I need to reassess and you guys never did it, which was ridiculous. You need two people to dance that tango on day 1/2 and you and WBG directly contributed to that chaos by tunneling. So don't go around saying people played bad and caused chaos and fucked up your reads when you were the one playing horribly and played an equal part in causing said chaos (addressed to WBG, obviously)
Don't spout shit chaoser, you're the one who made less sense than I did and you're also the one who was always more in danger of being lynched.
Next time don't try to catch scum by FOSing 5 people at once on day 1 and then admitting you have no case on any of them, cause that's moronic.
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On December 01 2011 03:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 03:30 Curu wrote: I've never been lynched as Town!
Or scum!
Curu #1 That's just a sign you havn't played enough.
LOL
Curu is one of the best players on these forums.
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On December 01 2011 04:02 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's a bit rash to insult my play when I have never played with most of the scum team (coagulations not included). I rely pretty heavily on interactions in mafia games, and interacting with Palmar or WBG is like trying to kiss a furnace. I think you two need to lighten up. You can catch scum without spraying mace at everyone who tries to approach you.
you were fine.
However, you have to admit it's rather frustrating when, of the 5 most anti-town players of the game, I'd put 4 townies in there.
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On December 01 2011 04:41 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Don't spout shit chaoser, you're the one who made less sense than I did and you're also the one who was always more in danger of being lynched.
Next time don't try to catch scum by FOSing 5 people at once on day 1 and then admitting you have no case on any of them, cause that's moronic. lol. sure. did you just indirectly admit that you made no sense? Pretty sure "FOS 3 people day 1" was what I did and not "FOS 5 people" in the beginning until you and palmar decided to tunnel me for no reason. Not to mention you also voted for 3-4 people day 1 with most of the cases being "he's playing shitty". My cases were way better than your cases at least. Stop blaming other peopel for your shitty play and go fuck a whale kthanks. shape up your pretentious/elitist/I am better/holier than thou attitude before playing again kk? kindly go take your head out your ass and go win a few more games before acting like you're "da shit" it's like playing with a no-talent version of ace, no thanks
lol chaoser
this is almost not worth responding to. You know very well that you were in the wrong day 1, Palmar and I are not so stupid as to both find you suspicious just because we're both idiots.
We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did.
Bum didn't play particularly anti-town either, he was just lazy. That's why he was never in threat of being lynched either.
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On December 01 2011 05:20 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did. lol, i never got lynched? I doubt you could have gotten me lynched had I not gotten sick. I don't think you've EVER gotten me lynched. I also haven't been day 1 lynched since forever. And I'm pretty sure I've carried more games than you have. Go read some mafia history kkk? And you didn't address the part about the elitist/i am better/holier than thou attitude I see. I'd add some more vitriol but I wouldn't want to mean so I'll just politely ask you to go headbutt a bullet and be done with it.
just not gonna bother...
ignore this
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On December 01 2011 05:51 chaoser wrote: np palmar, everyone did badly. Or else town wouldn't have lost. That's something that I'm sure everyone can admit. But when WBG goes around saying "omg omg you're all so bad! that's why I made bad reads/calls/votes!" and indirectly implies that he was in no way a part of that failure, or that his bad play is somehow excused is when I call bullshit on that.
of course I was part of the failure. I had bad reads too.
However, how the hell are you going to make correct reads if scum aren't the most anti-town players?
You can't seriously expect anyone to be able to make correct reads when people are PURPOSELY being hard to read.
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normally, flavor text is just that...flavor.
I didn't realize there would be game-relevant clues in the flavor so I didn't bother looking too deeply into it.
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Multi-lynch doesn't function the same way a vig does. In fact, it's much harder to get multi-lynch to work the way you want it to than a vig.
Lynch methods are highly manipulable by scum. No offense to the scumteam, but with this town if any of you actually played aggressive scum you would've managed to lynch 3-4 townies everyday and would've been able to win even faster.
Multilynch is good if the town is competent. A vig can compensate for chaos and stupid townies. Multilynch can't. In fact, the dumber the town, the more mafia-favored multilynch is.
EDIT: I would've loved this setup as scum.
However it would've felt unfair lol.
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it's true though, all of us townies played incredibly badly.
There's nothing more to say other than we were incompetent.
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On December 01 2011 12:35 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:29 wherebugsgo wrote: Multilynch is good if the town is competent. A vig can compensate for chaos and stupid townies. You missed something. A smart vig can compensate... But if you have a game full of stupid townies like the scenario you describe, it's just as probable, if not moreso, that a stupid townie snags the vig role, and that helps how? Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 12:29 wherebugsgo wrote: Multilynch can't. In fact, the dumber the town, the more mafia-favored multilynch is. Indeed, you are correct. The dumber the town, the more mafia-favored ANY normal mechanic is. Unless you start adding retarded anti-snowball or similar mechanics. Okay, you know what? I get it. I shouldn't host game setups which are designed for competent players here.
No, even a dumb vig can compensate.
If smart players direct a bad player who lands a vig role he can still be useful.
I've played in a couple games, in fact, in which not the greatest player got the vig role but was still useful because he listened to the proper townies.
like, directing a vig as scum is much harder than directing a lynch. It sounds easier, since you only have to convince one person, but that person is hidden. With a lynch you can direct behind the scenes without ever directly saying what you want the lynch to be.
Then later you can punish those responsible for bad lynches with further bad lynches.
Vigilantes are kinda dumb-proof in the sense that you can only make one bad shot.
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no, not always.
I'm not going to name names, cause that would be mean.
In order to lead a lynch you have to convince an entire flock. In order to convince a vig you just have to convince one person.
It's actually harder as scum to do the latter because it's generally extremely hard to convince a vig to shoot someone without directly stating it.
On the other hand, scum can manipulate lynches in all sorts of ways.
EDIT:
I should clarify that I have nothing against multi-lynch. I actually think it's really cool and is an awesome dynamic to a game, with one caveat: everyone who signs up for the game actually plays the game.
Inactive people, trolls, and people who otherwise have very little interest in playing..well kinda make multilynch frustrating to deal with.
It's much easier to seed chaos and destruction in a thread where everyone has 3 votes than in one where everyone only has 1. Without a cohesive backbone town falls apart really easily.
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I'm not blaming it.
I think it's the townies' fault lol
although balance IS a concern in Mafia games. It's easier to tell with minis whether a game is balanced. It's much harder to tell if a larger game is properly balanced since it's really hard to run games with those setups enough times
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On December 01 2011 13:21 xsksc wrote:I'm not trying to say I know more about balanced setups than you do wbg, I know I don't . What I'm trying to say is unless everyone plays 100% correctly and doesn't make mistakes, balance should be pretty much irrelevant to a win/loss (obviously there's gonna be exceptions for extreme cases.) In this game for example, if me and the other inexperienced/bad/trolling townies had just played better and posted more, we would have had a much better chance at winning. It wouldn't have mattered if we didn't have vigs or if Grey's role was OP, we just needed to simply play better.
right, I agree with you.
My only point about the vigilantes is that multi lynch and vigilantes function differently.
It primarily depends on how you play the game, but each one gives different benefits to different factions depending on the players.
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On December 01 2011 13:29 Zona wrote: Yes, of course vigilantes and multi-lynch aren't identical. But the idea that the multi-lynch mechanic by itself is unfavorable to the town is entirely wrong.
It is incredibly important to have a balanced setup if players are to play seriously. It's disheartening to put an immense effort into a game only to discover later on that the odds were unfairly stacked against you. (Or that you won with the help of a very favorable setup.)
That's why I am taking the effort now to dispel incorrect accusations of imbalance about this setup, since I want players to play seriously in my future games. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered in participating in such a debate.
I think Multi-lynch is more unfavorable to a bad town than vigilantes are.
Yeah, the solution obviously is not to play badly, but I think the point has been made.
TL towns just need to step it up. (scum too, though I think town play needs to improve first before there's any reason for scum to bother)
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