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On October 31 2011 07:29 hyshes wrote:I would like to mention that i do not like Toadessterns' post + Show Spoiler +On October 31 2011 07:11 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 00:47 risk.nuke wrote:On October 30 2011 23:11 Toadesstern wrote:On October 30 2011 22:51 risk.nuke wrote:On October 30 2011 20:12 Toadesstern wrote:
oh and just a hint since this is a beginners game:
If you are a dt or medic don't just hide or something. First of all, that really gives you away for mafia and secondly we might end up killing our very own dt or medic because we went for a lurker who turned out to be a blue playing "let's not get any attention or I'm going to get killed by mafia".
Unless your coach told you otherwise. In that case just tell him he sucks.
Your awesome special powers are not going to safe the day if noones talking at all.
To sum it up: post bitches You seem awefully keen to make our dt and medic reveal themselves. Are you in bed with Hotbid? nah, I'm kinda paranoid since last game where out of 12 people about 7 got modkilled because they didn't post enough I see, but that is unrelated hence your paranoia defense isn't very convincing.. You were just hinting dts and medics to reveal themselves. That is scummy. no the point is, that as a dt or medic you don't want to look like a dt or medic for mafia, because that would be an easy hint for them. So let's say we got 9 people and all of them are posting equally. In that case mafia will have a hard time figurering out who's a blue. If we got 9 people, 6 of them are talking a lot and 3 are not, mafia will have a slight clue and have to decide if it's a guy who just isn't playing this game activ or if it's a guy who does not want to get killed for some reason. I don't want to make a possible dt or medic stand out. I'm saying, that in my opinion posting nothing at all WILL make them stand out and vulnerable. Just take into consideration when I actually made that post: About the time when 4 of us haven't made a post in this thread. Maybe it's 3 I don't know but you get the idea. I just wanted to make sure that there's nobody thinking "oh crap I have to do as little posts as possible as a dt to not give away my secret identy" because that's what came to my mind last game (which was my first game) and I was a dt. I had to change it pretty soon :p Haven't read page 11, am reading right now and will maybe add something. This is just to clear up my "intentions" about that "make medics and dts" post. It lacks any sense whatsoever if you reflect it to his previous posts. He is either not explaining himself clearly or has an hidden agenda (read: he is scum) When does the first day ends?
you can always find that information in the Day/Night post by the host. Also, if you have a question like "what does FOS mean" feel free to ask a coach, that is exactly what they are there for 
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@Toad
Keep in mind many (most?) people have not played together, if at all, before. So something fitting their style is hard to determine for those of us who haven't. That being said, I will now go look through that game you were in to try to fix that problem. For anyone else interested in doing so as well:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264798
It contains 3 of our current players, Toadesstern, Ciryandor, and Zanfada. It is also pretty short, so shouldn't take too long to read through. Careful with just filtering the three players though, context context context!
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Ok yeah sry it's kinda late in germany and it's not my native language after all:
I want you to explain why you think it's a fos on ciry because I think those "X is defending Y" arguments are flawed. I don't think that someone saying "hey that could totally be a normal posting" is scummy at all. Especially given that we know each other a bit.
I just said, zanfas posts totally look like zanfas post from last game, which turned out to be town (go ahead and search the old thread) and so do ciry posts. And except for that one point, which I think is not a scum tell (defending someone) I don't think we got something scummy on ciry.
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Oh and a hint. If you want to check our postings last game use filters. Ciry died day 1, so there's not much. Zanfas did not post a hell lot and I posted quiiiiite some but noone replyed. My posts probably need to be seen in context
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Belgium428 Posts
Toadesstern, could you please direct your questions to people in specific? We can not always be sure who you mean with "you" (just because i'm not sure if you are asking me anything)
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On October 31 2011 07:39 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:@Toad Keep in mind many (most?) people have not played together, if at all, before. So something fitting their style is hard to determine for those of us who haven't. That being said, I will now go look through that game you were in to try to fix that problem. For anyone else interested in doing so as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264798It contains 3 of our current players, Toadesstern, Ciryandor, and Zanfada. It is also pretty short, so shouldn't take too long to read through. Careful with just filtering the three players though, context context context!
yeah but that's just what I said. We know each other a bit so I think both look perfectly fine. Zanfas does look a bit strange since he's posting so much but that's a good thing and I'm guessing he improved right now :p
Ciry is just like what he did last game and well ciry said something like that about me. So that is why I don't think a statement like "yeah I played last game with him and it kinda looks legit" is scummy and I got to disagree.
oh and yeah sry hyshes, will keep quoting from now on. I'm not used to such a fast thread :D
So this post was about harb and my last sentece was directed to hyshes. Those 2 before were more of a general post talking to everyone.
tell my what you don't like or what you don't think makes sense and I will explain it. Withouth anything it's just nothing you post to make poeple go after someone
was directed to hyshes.
everything clear now?
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On October 31 2011 05:40 Skrammen wrote:
And just a head's up: Since we have people from both sides of the pond in this game there is bound to be somewhat of a delay in answers and people might be working or sleeping when some discussions takes place. We should be somewhat tolerant of this, but obviously 24 hours of no posting is not good.
2 posts in almost 24 hours is almost as bad as 24 hours of nothing though, and as a reference, the people on both sides of the pond (myself and Toads for Europe, for example) have multiple posts. Have you been working all Sunday or something?
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Belgium428 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On October 31 2011 07:50 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 07:39 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:@Toad Keep in mind many (most?) people have not played together, if at all, before. So something fitting their style is hard to determine for those of us who haven't. That being said, I will now go look through that game you were in to try to fix that problem. For anyone else interested in doing so as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264798It contains 3 of our current players, Toadesstern, Ciryandor, and Zanfada. It is also pretty short, so shouldn't take too long to read through. Careful with just filtering the three players though, context context context! yeah but that's just what I said. We know each other a bit so I think both look perfectly fine. Zanfas does look a bit strange since he's posting so much but that's a good thing and I'm guessing he improved right now :p Ciry is just like what he did last game and well ciry said something like that about me. So that is why I don't think a statement like "yeah I played last game with him and it kinda looks legit" is scummy and I got to disagree. oh and yeah sry hyshes, will keep quoting from now on. I'm not used to such a fast thread :D So this post was about harb and my last sentece was directed to hyshes. Those 2 before were more of a general post talking to everyone. Show nested quote +tell my what you don't like or what you don't think makes sense and I will explain it. Withouth anything it's just nothing you post to make poeple go after someone was directed to hyshes. everything clear now?
@Toadesstern my excuses, i reread you opening post, i must have misremembered it wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 31 2011 07:53 IMABUNNEH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:40 Skrammen wrote:
And just a head's up: Since we have people from both sides of the pond in this game there is bound to be somewhat of a delay in answers and people might be working or sleeping when some discussions takes place. We should be somewhat tolerant of this, but obviously 24 hours of no posting is not good. 2 posts in almost 24 hours is almost as bad as 24 hours of nothing though, and as a reference, the people on both sides of the pond (myself and Toads for Europe, for example) have multiple posts. Have you been working all Sunday or something?
@IMABUNNEH even though i don't like inactives either, direct attacks seem a bit off. He is not the only one who is post very little (i only see the same 5-6 returning while reading).
@all: i would to remind you all of my previously posted opinion about Zanfada. It seems to me he overcompensates the lack of simple and clear arguments by huge blocks of text.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 31 2011 06:57 hyshes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 06:30 Zanfada wrote:I can take my vote back at any time. The vote was just there to promote talking which it did just that. What was alot more interesting was Toad's post and how it was received. I personally think blues should post and help the town or they stand out to mafia and playing safe and become much better targets. Also mafia rarely mention blues for the simple fact that it makes them look more like mafia hunting for blues with any mention of blues. The same goes for blues themselves, they want to hide with town and do their job. I think Toad was just trying to prevent what happened last game to happen this game. However his post doesn't say anything more then "post guys" which doesn't further along any conversation it just increase his post count which in my opinion is all mafia try to do for the first day. On October 30 2011 22:54 hacklebeast wrote:On October 30 2011 14:42 Zanfada wrote:
Day 1 it is very important not to let the mafia lurk and hide in the background. So we have to preasure them and force everyone to interact. If you look at the last mini mafia town lost because of inactivity. So we can't have anyone be inactive.
I guess to get things start hacklebeast hasn't posted anything yet. so until he speaks up or a better target comes along
##Vote hacklebeast Unnecessarily trying to start a town panic? Baseless accusing people that, under your own admission, have no evidence against? Sounds like very mafia things to do. I'm not going to go so far as to cast my vote yet, but I'm watching you. Besides, I could never have committed the crime. Gmarshal I could take or leave, but killing ponies? I don't have it in me to take out something this lovable. I wasn't starting a town panic, though it seems to have caused you to panic a little. Your response to my vote seems to be an emotional plea involving ponies and a FOS but little more then that. It seems as if you are trying to not draw any sort of attention to yourself even after a vote has already been placed on you. Normally I would take this as a scum tell but it seems more like a newbie tell then a mafia at this point. Then there is Ciryandor, he defended me and my baseless attack on someone. The only time I usually am defended is when scum are trying to buddy up with me. Or since he has played a few games he is just trying to let newbies know what I was doing. Still FOS for now. You tend to say very little with very much words.. That seems to me like you are overcompensating for the lack of conclusive arguments.
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Ok I still would like chocolate to explain why he got a fos on ciry. It might be right (I don't think we got a reason to think so but I won't say it's wrong on day 1 without information  ) but if I had to make a list of people from 1 to 12 where 1 is the guy I think is the most likely to be town and 12 the guy most likely to be mafia in my opinion I'd place ciry somewhere in those top 50% spots.
I still think that this is strange. The only reason behind this, as far as I understood it, was ciry "defending" zanfa ?
Also, keep in mind getting agressive is kind of a town tell. At least that's what happens to me.
Just imagine you post something you think is ok or good, someone quotes it and makes it look like you're scum although you said something totally different, or at least wanted to do so.
In that situation I WOULD probably be pissed. At least that's part of the "paranoid-answer" I did on page 9 when you guys asked me about the my post about dt or medics. I just did not think someone could interpretate it that way and thought it's clear and therefore I don't have to explain it. Turned out I was wrong.
To sum it up: It might be something but I think it's more of a human nature thing getting into him.
Let's face it, if someone accuses you to be mafia and you know yourself you're not the first thing you think is wtf is up with you dude, just reread what I posted.
Also he did the exact same thing in the last game. He voted on day1 for me and switched later on his vote and only tried to make me talking.
I think those people desperatly trying to point at someone telling us to vote for those guys look way more scummy right now, which is why I still want that explanation from choc.
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@IMABUNNEH even though i don't like inactives either, direct attacks seem a bit off. He is not the only one who is post very little (i only see the same 5-6 returning while reading).
I didn't mean it as a direct attack, though reading it it is more aggressive than I intended. It's an attempt to get him posting SOMETHING rather than nothing, and asking him where he's been is as good as any.
@all: i would to remind you all of my previously posted opinion about Zanfada. It seems to me he overcompensates the lack of simple and clear arguments by huge blocks of text.
He's definately FOS from me since a little earlier. It just seems a whole lot of nothing.
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1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote.
I know Kita mentioned that votes can be done within this thread earlier, but just to avoid any issues, can the OP be updated to clarify that votes should go here, and not in some mysterious "there"? Right now it looks like that should be a link to a voting thread that simply isn't up yet.
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Vote in this thread, as in , the thread we are writing in right now. Not every underlined sentence is automaticly a link
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Oh and a final note about all those fos things. I still think we should go for a lurker on day-1 unless we got something that sounds scummy and until now I don't think we got something.
If we lynch someone who's lurking we got a decent chance of hitting a mafia. Obiously not every mafia style involves lurking.
But the two most important parts are (one already mentioned earlier): We force mafia into talking. That's not bad for mafia because of talking but because of talking a lot means a lot of chances of slipping. That's exactly what we want. The more mafia talks, the more likely we're to find something decent out of an analysis. Especially post death. For those who are reading the thread of the last game, take a look at my last post (for those who don't want to read the whole thing just read that one post):
Klick me!
Just take a look at my analysis. We had 1 guy who made a total of 2 (!) posts and thats all and those other 2 guys made pretty much no posts, as well and STILL we got a decent analysis out of me, not because of what they said but because of what dead, confirmed mafia said (pretty much everything I said about zanfas is stuff from dead mafias except for his one analysis). Just as an example how important this is. That way I at least knew zanfas was 99% town last game.
A second point would be our town situation. Of course lynching a mafia is what we want but let's think about what happens if we turn out to lynch a town.
If we end up killing a lurking town that's bad because we ended up killing a townie instead of a mafia but killing an active townie is just really bad because killing a townie sucks and on top of that we're destroying townsituation by killing those guys posting.
At least as long as it's out of the blue like now.
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Toad i did not fos ciry. Filter my posts and look at them if you dont believe me. I only fosd zanfa, and noted suspicion with you that i have since withdrawn.
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@Chocolate/Toad
On October 31 2011 07:00 Chocolate wrote:
Definitely FOS on Zanfada now. Needlessly aggressive, fos on ciryandor for defending him, even though what you did at first was a smart and good thing to do as it opened discussion. And yeah, having almost no evidence for any of his fos but saying a lot of empty words is kinda :/
[Emphasis mine]
I think the bolded part is the source of the confusion.
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I was describing what zanfa was doing, sorry for the confusion.
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Good morning to all, I think I see some good work from everyone here. At least my prompting for some actual probing worked this time. By now we should start committing votes to people we think are suspicious in their activity, and we actually have people who think we ought to lynch someone.
So I'll summarize what we have:
Lots of suspicion (from HoD, risk, xsksc, Chocolate, hyshes) on Toad for prompting productive activity ; which was essentially what I was doing as well.
Some suspicion on Zanfada as well (from hyshes and Chocolate), admittedly minor, for doing lots of "filler talk".
A bit of shifty eyes on me for basically posting a rule answering a green-lined post, which was interpreted as defending a player.
What's interesting to me is why hyshes and Chocolate have flip-flopped between Zanfada and Toadesstern without committing to one of the two as their vote. If you really want to pressure them or think they're suspicious enough, then go and cast a vote.
I personally have a good vote that I want to expound on right now, but I want to see more posting from that person before I cast it, as it may yield more information on him.
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On October 31 2011 12:02 Ciryandor wrote:
Lots of suspicion (from HoD, risk, xsksc, Chocolate, hyshes) on Toad for prompting productive activity ; which was essentially what I was doing as well.
The only person I have called out my suspicion on is Skrammen. Since he hasn't said anything since then, I remain suspicious of him.
Some suspicion on Zanfada as well (from hyshes and Chocolate), admittedly minor, for doing lots of "filler talk".
Bunneh, Drem, and Skraamen have also mentioned Zanfada as someone to watch. I find it interesting that you miss out on all of those as well as call the suspicion on him minor. However, you seem to be genuinely trying to create discussion, so try to be more accurate with your summaries.
Their relevant quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +Fron Bunneh: Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:36 Drem903 wrote:
Zanfada also has not posted at all since his initial accusation, so he should also be one to consider for now. Yeah. Maybe they were just trying to get the ball rolling, or maybe they were trying to start people recieving flak early on. I'd go out on a limb and put odds on at least one of them being scum. From Drem: Zanfada also has not posted at all since his initial accusation, so he should also be one to consider for now. From Skraamen: Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 14:42 Zanfada wrote:
Day 1 it is very important not to let the mafia lurk and hide in the background. So we have to preasure them and force everyone to interact. If you look at the last mini mafia town lost because of inactivity. So we can't have anyone be inactive.
I guess to get things start hacklebeast hasn't posted anything yet. so until he speaks up or a better target comes along
##Vote hacklebeast 4 hours into the game and you go on and try to stir some discussion up? He wasnt the only one who had said nothing up to that point, why did you choose him? It seems a little bit... Dodgy to use a vote to pressure someone into talking more so soon I think.
All that being said, I would like to hear more from xsksc, Drem, hacklebeast, risk.nuke, and Skrammen. All of these players have been relatively quiet now and I would like to hear what their current scum reads/suspicions are.
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On October 31 2011 14:07 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 12:02 Ciryandor wrote:
Lots of suspicion (from HoD, risk, xsksc, Chocolate, hyshes) on Toad for prompting productive activity ; which was essentially what I was doing as well. The only person I have called out my suspicion on is Skrammen. Since he hasn't said anything since then, I remain suspicious of him. Show nested quote +Some suspicion on Zanfada as well (from hyshes and Chocolate), admittedly minor, for doing lots of "filler talk". Bunneh, Drem, and Skraamen have also mentioned Zanfada as someone to watch. I find it interesting that you miss out on all of those as well as call the suspicion on him minor. However, you seem to be genuinely trying to create discussion, so try to be more accurate with your summaries. Their relevant quotes: + Show Spoiler +Fron Bunneh: Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:36 Drem903 wrote:
Zanfada also has not posted at all since his initial accusation, so he should also be one to consider for now. Yeah. Maybe they were just trying to get the ball rolling, or maybe they were trying to start people recieving flak early on. I'd go out on a limb and put odds on at least one of them being scum. From Drem: Zanfada also has not posted at all since his initial accusation, so he should also be one to consider for now. From Skraamen: Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 14:42 Zanfada wrote:
Day 1 it is very important not to let the mafia lurk and hide in the background. So we have to preasure them and force everyone to interact. If you look at the last mini mafia town lost because of inactivity. So we can't have anyone be inactive.
I guess to get things start hacklebeast hasn't posted anything yet. so until he speaks up or a better target comes along
##Vote hacklebeast 4 hours into the game and you go on and try to stir some discussion up? He wasnt the only one who had said nothing up to that point, why did you choose him? It seems a little bit... Dodgy to use a vote to pressure someone into talking more so soon I think. All that being said, I would like to hear more from xsksc, Drem, hacklebeast, risk.nuke, and Skrammen. All of these players have been relatively quiet now and I would like to hear what their current scum reads/suspicions are.
I didn't specifically miss out on them, but what I was getting at is that compared to the FoS pointed to Toad, Zanfada's relative exposure, and the corresponding nitpicks that come with it, are lesser and were made by the people I highlighted. Do note that I don't usually use filters when I go through posts, because it loses a lot of the context; but filtering does highlight player slips when it happens.
In this case, I'm trying to narrow down on whether Zanfada's posts are just his regular filler posts like his last game, or if he's being non-committal, but I'd like to also highlight Chocolate and hyshes' posts for being wishy-washy about who they want to vote for, because being active yet not putting on vote pressure is bad form; it lets players get away with less reasons for someone to not pile on them.
As you said, sooner or later we have to choose someone to lynch.
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Hi guys I'm back.
Just read through all the stuff that's happened in the last 12 hours. Here's my thoughts..
Toadesstern
Initially I felt he was pretty scummy when he posted telling our blues not to hide although I may have misinterpreted this. His recent posts seem logical and unsuspicious. Will continue to watch him.
Zanfada
Not posted a lot so far but he looks very strange to me. 1 vote and a FOS in 2 posts. I'd like to hear more out of you. I would also like to know why you defend toad in the first half of your post and then FOS on ciry for defending you. You said the only time you are defended is when scum try to buddy up to you... Seems very contradictory to me.
I'm not really seeing anything suspicious out of anyone else yet, need to hear from the inactives.
We do have to lynch someone today so please keep posting people!
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EPT
