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Framer can be used to redirect actions, like a mindcontroller. So it is extremely useful in town hands. I can make mafia kill each other. It's not the framing that makes the role good.
And how would you go about doing this? How would you know who is mafia and who is not? How would you know that that particular mafia is going to be shooting? I assume since each mafia group only has 1 KP and 4 members that it will be RNG-ed between the members. Even if they did control who would go out to carry out the hit, they're just pick someone different to do it. How would you know?
Do mafia get to pick which one of them goes to carry out the hit?
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On October 13 2011 09:14 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 21:09 syllogism wrote:
If the framer targets a member of mafia, can their NK be redirected?
Do mafia have to assign who performs the killl?] No No
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Chaoser For Mayor!
I will hunt every scum down. My record in XXXVIII, XXXIX and LOTR speaks for itself. I will lead this town to victory. Vote Chaoser.
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On October 14 2011 12:53 hiro protagonist wrote:
I would like to nominate the 3 most active and protown people as of right now, and that would be:
Sandroba
Jumbo
Radfield
All three put a lot of effort into organizing town so far. By putting them in public office, We pressure them to keep up there performance. Of the three, I like Sand and Rad the most, Jumbo the least.
chaoser or wiggles dont have a platform, so i see no reason to elect them. They could change my mind, if they give me a reason to.
My platform is to lead you all to victory, what do you mean by no platform? What's sandroba's/Jimbo's/Radfield's platforms? I don't see any.
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On October 14 2011 13:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:I'm going to prioritize my vote based on who the mayor will lynch day 1, and the candidates position in the draft order (Alongside filtering out people who seem scummy of course). The draft order thing is because if the person is scum, they are less likely to have a top tier role, and therefore can't abuse their power to the same extent. Any candidates seeking my vote should provide this information 
Obviously you should vote me since I am both in the middle of the order (albeit low middle) and also have a lynch target. Also, I put up a picture of Mike Haggar. And he is awesome. He can beat up any stupid stick figures and numbers mean nothing to him.
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I can understand running for election.
What I can't understand is running with someone else together for election. I can't understand how someone can inherently trust someone else to be so town that they can automatically. I can't understand trying to force other people not to run by force.
+ Show Spoiler [Convo with Sandroba about election] +[7:32:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: hahaha
[7:33:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: man you think you have a shot at mayor?
...
[7:35:36 AM] Chaosers: nvm lol, old game
[7:35:41 AM] Chaosers: and yes
[7:35:46 AM] Chaosers: i think i have a shot at mayor
[7:35:52 AM] Chaosers: why would i not have a shot at mayor?
[7:36:03 AM] Chaosers: if i didn't think i had a shot at mayor i wouldn't be running
[7:36:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: cuz you have no presence in thread =P
[7:36:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: as opposed to me/rad/jimbo
[7:37:17 AM] Chaosers: so by that logic mig shouldn't have a shot either
[7:37:23 AM] Chaosers: syllo either
[7:37:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes
[7:37:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: but I'm supporting him
[7:37:36 AM] Sandro Maculan: and I can convince many
[7:37:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[7:37:41 AM] Chaosers: go ahead
[7:37:53 AM] Chaosers: why are you tryign to scare me off from running?
...
[7:41:07 AM] Chaosers: right now you're literally saying, no one should run except syllo and mig
[7:41:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: people may say I'm sure XY is mafia I'm not voting him
[7:41:22 AM] Chaosers: or implying it
[7:41:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes
[7:41:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's what I'm saying
I can't understand how this would be one of the main points in convincing someone they are town
+ Show Spoiler [Syllo/Sandroba convo] +[7:46:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: I know syllo from a long time
[7:47:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: let me copy you the thing
[7:48:06 AM] Sandro Maculan: [10/13/2011 3:10:55 PM] syllogism: what if i make a 100% guarantee that i'm town, just this once
[10/13/2011 3:11:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: huh?
[10/13/2011 3:11:14 PM] syllogism: i won't ever use it again in another game because it's kind of destroys my meta
[10/13/2011 3:11:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: and you wouldn't do that as mafia
[10/13/2011 3:11:47 PM] syllogism: i wouldn't no
[10/13/2011 3:11:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: how can I trust that
[10/13/2011 3:11:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: ...
[10/13/2011 3:12:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: I would lie to you if I was mafia
[10/13/2011 3:12:13 PM] syllogism: well the thing is I'm saying I won't do this in the future
[10/13/2011 3:12:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: Why would you not?
[10/13/2011 3:12:17 PM] syllogism: because it's cheap
[10/13/2011 3:12:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: why are you doing it right now
[10/13/2011 3:12:34 PM] syllogism: because i feel like it
[10/13/2011 3:12:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: okay
[10/13/2011 3:12:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: but I will take this personally
[10/13/2011 3:12:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: if you are lying like this
[10/13/2011 3:13:07 PM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[10/13/2011 3:13:31 PM] syllogism: yes exactly, this is why i wouldnt do this as mafia
[10/13/2011 3:13:35 PM] syllogism: and which is why i wont do it again
[10/13/2011 3:13:40 PM] syllogism: because then i would have to do it as scum too
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Your only criteria for voting for someone is that you've played in previously PM games with them and that they are active all the time?
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I find it really odd that syllo would not be running with Mig's support, rather than the other way around. In fact, I got the impression from both Mig and syllo yesterday that they would BOTH be running, and that syllogism would be the main candidate. That is clearly not the case today.
Sorry, I crash the fuck out at like 12PM EST and have been dead/napping on my keyboard/face marked till now. At 12PM EST I was told that Syllo and Mig were running together with Syllo as likely for pardoner and Mig for mayor. Did that change?
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On October 15 2011 06:27 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 06:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
It's clear that syllogism is not a candidate. He has no votes. Feel free to vote for me, but it doesn't appear likely we've enough votes to elect us both. Obviously if mig can't be elected, I would rather have me as one of the two elected roles.
This isn't what Sandroba told me.
[5:10:36 PM] Chaosers: is syllo not running anymore?
[5:12:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: let me see
[5:12:55 PM] Chaosers: and if he isn't
[5:12:59 PM] Chaosers: why isn't he running anymore
[5:15:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: oh
[5:15:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: syllo will only run
[5:15:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: if we can get both elected
[5:15:23 PM] Chaosers: we both?
[5:15:26 PM] Chaosers: you and him?
[5:15:28 PM] Chaosers: what happened to mig?
[5:15:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: if it looks like we can't only mig will run
[5:15:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: no
[5:15:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: mig and syllo
[5:15:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: if we can get them both elected
[5:15:52 PM] Chaosers: why doesn't he run regardless?
[5:16:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: I dunno
[5:16:04 PM] Chaosers: how can you ensure someone will get elected unless you run?
[5:16:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: he doesn't want to spread
[5:16:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: and run thin on votes I guess
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On October 15 2011 07:04 hiro protagonist wrote:
My logic is that mayor and pardoner will be under alot of scrutiny, and without a solid way of hiding the fact that your mafia, there is not as much incentive for grabbing the big seat. Those thinking that agent of chaos/ackbar or suicide roles for mayor are good for mafia should realize that the game is to be the last one standing, not "kill as many people that visit me/and I die as well"
but as bugs pointed out, there are alot of combos. maybe more than he posted or that I thought of. so now Im not so sure.
I remember someone said that mayor is DT checkable but when I filter Prot I don't see him say this at all. If the mayor isn't DT checkable then that's a solid way of hiding.
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On October 15 2011 07:15 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 14:51 Protactinium wrote:
Role Changelog:
Elected officials no longer are immune to role checks.
NRA members no longer show up as vanilla to investigations.
Qatol is no longer immune to role checks.
Agent of Chaos can no longer be subbed in as a bodyguard. They must be elected into office in order to activate their power.
Bone Breaker role added.
Ok thanks, I was looking for mayor and not elected officials.
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Ok, so since no one else wants to talk about it, I'll talk about it. Scum Hunting. I am horrible at picking plans and I'm horrible at talking about elections. The one thing I'm good at is scum hunting.
I'm willing to lynch DropBear off his horrible Framer idea and then his defense for not letting it get banned. His logic is weak as fuck for his defense:
[13:23] <DropBear> you guys need to think outside the box
[13:23] <DropBear> there are 43% mafia in this game
[13:24] <DropBear> i will be negating them
[13:24] <DropBear> it is easy
[13:24] <DropBear> i simply dont use my role the first couple of days
[13:24] <DropBear> and use it later on when there are strong suspects
[13:24] <DropBear> and redirect their actions
[13:24] <kitaman27_> how do we know you're not using your role?
[13:25] <chaoser> what makes you think you'll survive the first couple of days?
[13:25] <chaoser> what makes you think you won't be roleblocked?
[13:25] <mudkip> nobody sees the third party but you say you are
[13:25] <chaoser> and then we're fucked
[13:25] <kitaman27_> you could be masking scum as town and we would never know
[13:25] <chaoser> cause do we believe you were actually roleblocked
[13:25] <chaoser> or that you are lying
[13:25] <mudkip> and if you dont get it should we just innately believe you
[13:25] <chaoser> if you say you were thief-ed then what?
[13:25] <chaoser> what about role swap?
[13:25] <mudkip> theres too many things that can go wrong with town choosing framer
[13:25] <chaoser> how are you goign to stop those?
[13:26] <DropBear> ok
[13:26] <DropBear> lets say i pick doctor
[13:26] <DropBear> what happens if i get theifed?
[13:26] <DropBear> or roleswapped?
[13:26] <DropBear> the same fucking thing lol
[13:26] <chaoser> if you pick doctor you wouln't be fucking claiming it in thread
[13:26] <DropBear> what happens if i choose cupid?
[13:32] <DropBear> kita
[13:32] <DropBear> where does it say
[13:32] <DropBear> that mafia kp is not redirected
[13:32] <chaoser> i just posted
[13:32] <chaoser> in thread
[13:32] <DropBear> oh
[13:32] <DropBear> thanks
[13:32] <DropBear> well then fuck framer lol
[13:33] <DropBear> that was the whole idea i had
[13:33] <DropBear> fuck i gotta choose something different now -_-
[13:33] <kitaman27_> the purpose of you taking it was for role denail
[13:33] <kitaman27_> not because it was good for town
Kita first introduced the idea for framer to be picked to deny it to mafia/honesty check. Dropbear quotes it and immediately says he wants to do it. I suggest that if he picks it that we should ban it from him to get it out of the game and immediately he is very much against it when it's a very protown thing to do. He then uses shitty logic and doesn't give up until the final real reason (redirecting KP) is shown to be impossible.
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On October 14 2011 02:16 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Framer can be used to redirect actions, like a mindcontroller. So it is extremely useful in town hands. I can make mafia kill each other. It's not the framing that makes the role good. And how would you go about doing this? How would you know who is mafia and who is not? How would you know that that particular mafia is going to be shooting? I assume since each mafia group only has 1 KP and 4 members that it will be RNG-ed between the members. Even if they did control who would go out to carry out the hit, they're just pick someone different to do it. How would you know? Do mafia get to pick which one of them goes to carry out the hit?
I posted this as a question to him and he never responds to it, only that he can do it and asking where it says he can't redirect KP
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On October 15 2011 11:19 wherebugsgo wrote:Raise your hand if you believe chaoser is scum and is using bad logic to try and get a possible townie lynched + Show Spoiler +
Says the guy who tried to mine me for info and then when I asked him back he declined to reply. So who would you rather lynch? hiro?
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No I'm not running anymore bum. I'm bad at elections and apparently I'm bad at working in a PM environment where everything is backstage and no one is really posting in thread as well. I wasn't trying to use dropbear as a trampoline (I don't understand what you mean exactly by trampoline btw) but I was hoping for some more conversation in-thread. That plus the fact that I thought the whole framer thing was really scummy with tons of bad logic is why I tried to make a case.
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On October 15 2011 11:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 11:37 wherebugsgo wrote:On October 15 2011 11:34 chaoser wrote:On October 15 2011 11:19 wherebugsgo wrote:Raise your hand if you believe chaoser is scum and is using bad logic to try and get a possible townie lynched + Show Spoiler + Says the guy who tried to mine me for info and then when I asked him back he declined to reply. So who would you rather lynch? hiro? I think you're smart enough to figure out both who I would want to lynch and why I gave you very little information. You've been rather defensive in your last several posts wbg. Rather than acting like you're above us all, why don't you tell us who you want to lynch since it seems like you have someone in mind.
I think he's trying to say that he wants to lynch me
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Hello all.
First off, sorry for my poor play. I could go on and on about excuses of having had also no time (which I already have with WBG and Mig) and no sleep (even spelling wary as weary -_-) but that doesn't do anything so here I go with putting in some effort.
Defense
One of the main points that WBG brings up against me is that I am usually a very consistent and forceful player. I attack people I think that are scum vehemetly and don't let up. He states that I am not doing as such. The two main examples he uses to support this is my giving up on the dropbear case and also my apparent change of heart on sandroba for syllo and no longer supporting radfield.
In that regard, I'm going to write out my entire logical pathway for this game from the start till now and show that though I haven't been very forceful (A matter of not having enough time and being tired and muddled in the head), I have had a logical train of thought. It'll probably be flow of conciousness though so if you have any questions feel free to PM me as I'll be free till 6-9 PM tonight (last shift for a few weeks! yayyy)
One of the main reasons of the supposed discontinuiaty of my stance is due to the fact that not everything is in thread nor am I good at/had the time to express my line of thought to people in PMs.
In the very beginning, my thoughts were that Radfield is a vet player and he was contributing in thread. From my exprience in LOTR, it is very easy to see if radfield is mafia or not as the game goes on as long as he contributes (That's why I shot him night two). By putting him into office, it would force him to continue contributing and thus make it easy to find out if he is mafia or not. This was before I went to the hospital on my shift. On the way there I realized that would still mean a scum in office and even if it did lead to me figuring out he was scum, it didn't mean that would be the case for everyone (no one else shot him night two of LOTR even though there was like 3 vigi left in the game). I realized my idea of putting them into office->they have to contribute a lot->it would be easy to control/figure out they were mafia was flawed in that regard. So I stratched him off as a good potential mayor to vote for. At the most, he was a null tell for me.
At the same time, I realized out of the two I only really thought Sandro was town due to his post in thread pinpointing the fact that this game was about survival and that it was much more important for town to control the survival roles than to deny the mafia. So much so that initially I had no problems with the syllo/sandro connection. I was willing to go along with it. It was only later (next day) that I was like wait a minute...this is seriously wrong.
The combo thing I talk about is wherebugsgo saying:
<wherebugsgo> so sandroba and radfield were planning on running together?
I was very confused and I was like, didn't you jsut say sandroba and radfield were running? since I had just gotten back from the ER and completely forgot about radfield since I had dismissed him as a decent mafia candidate(if you look at the log there's a 3 hour gap where I'm missing.). Notice how it's not him posting my quote, it's me posting my quote so unless I just decided to prove to WBG that I was contradicting myself, which makes no sense, it more in line with me being out of it.
I realized I was confusing the two different ideas and so I tried to clarify myself by writing down what my thoughts were all together:
[22:48] <chaoser> i meant to say that if i had to vote otherwise besides myself i would vote sand or rad but that i didn't fully 100% trust either one of them. I believe sandroba to be townish and radfield I'm not sure about, hence why previously I had said a null read on him. At the time, those were the only two people I were thinking and I didn't notice syllo at all. After talkign to sandroba about it, I reread syllo's posts and they seemed decently protownie to me. That is why
[00:00] <wherebugsgo> hmm okay
[00:01] <wherebugsgo> I guess that makes sense'
WBG agrees with me.
My conversation with Sandroba later on shows how out of it I really am:
I first started with a conversation with Sandroba where he tried to convince me that syllo was the best choice for office and that I should drop out.
At this time I still thought Sandro was town but over the night shift was vexed more and more by his immense support of syllo's run for office.
I asked him why he trusted syllo and he c/p-ed his reason for trusting syllo (100% town this game only card) of which I thought was borderline cheating. (rule 9). Sandroba even acknowledges this:
[7:50:50 AM] Sandro Maculan: but I can't help but accept it
[7:51:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's cheesy as fuck
[7:52:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's against the spirit of the game
I PMed GM asking if he thought it was a big enough issue to bring to the hosts and he said it wasn't. But I was still conformtable with it and I still didn't trust him (syllo) at this point, especially after he committed what I viewed as something that was almost illegal. I had yet to talk to him yet and he hadn't made a solid impression to me in thread.
Add in the fact that other people aside from Sandroba (Arctocod) were pushing people to not run and succeeding made me even more suspicious of syllo.
+ Show Spoiler +[8:55:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: hmm not much really
[8:55:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm just trying to get those guys elected
[8:56:48 AM] Chaosers: that's where i have the problem
[8:59:47 AM] Sandro Maculan: how so
[9:00:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: don't you just agreed with me that syllo is town
[9:00:55 AM] Chaosers: two people with 0% thread prescene all of a sudden run TOGETHER with multiple people vouching for their towness and also trying to force other peopel not to run?
[10/14/2011 9:01:10 AM] Sandro Maculan: well
[10/14/2011 9:01:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: that was mostly me
[10/14/2011 9:01:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[10/14/2011 9:01:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm getting them a lot of support
[10/14/2011 9:01:33 AM] Chaosers: archod or whatever
[10/14/2011 9:01:37 AM] Chaosers: is also trying to make me not run
[10/14/2011 9:01:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: yeah
[10/14/2011 9:01:43 AM] Sandro Maculan: that was syllo
[10/14/2011 9:01:46 AM] Sandro Maculan: wasn't me
[10/14/2011 9:01:54 AM] Sandro Maculan: oh is he
[10/14/2011 9:02:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: jimbo is considering stepping down aswell
Sandro then claims that my logic goes from he is cheating to you are lying:
[10/14/2011 9:05:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: well
[10/14/2011 9:05:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: it's funny how you went from that is cheating
[10/14/2011 9:06:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: to you must be lying
when I hadn't at all said anything about lying. I merely stated that I had a problem with the happenings surrounding sandro/syllo/mig at that point.
+ Show Spoiler +[10/14/2011 9:06:15 AM] Chaosers: well GM cleared up some things for me
[10/14/2011 9:06:25 AM] Chaosers: and since he beleives it not to be cheating
[10/14/2011 9:06:28 AM] Chaosers: and i trust him
[10/14/2011 9:06:46 AM] Sandro Maculan: then how do you not trust the info now
[10/14/2011 9:06:50 AM] Chaosers: i believe it to be the next thing which is that i can't trust thigns at face value
[10/14/2011 9:07:17 AM] Chaosers: Not really, if he were scum he could do the same thing, "I promisie I'm town guys!!!!" is not exactly convincing, if you are really concerned about it PM Protac/Incognito and get his judgement on it. Like if I were town I would not buy this "guarantee" at all.
[10/14/2011 9:07:48 AM] Sandro Maculan: I wouldn't buy it from most people
[10/14/2011 9:08:29 AM] Chaosers: ok and you can understand that i'm 1) not you 2) haven't had the same conversations that you did with syllo 3) am trying to paly this game to the best of MY abilities with the information I have before me
[10/14/2011 9:09:11 AM] Chaosers: and so i am unable and unwilling to buy into your extreme level of trust for a person I've barely even spoken to based purely on your words
[10/14/2011 9:09:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes I do
[10/14/2011 9:09:24 AM] Sandro Maculan: but what read do you have on me so far
[10/14/2011 9:09:42 AM] Chaosers: i read you as town but jsut becaus you are town doesn't mean you are right
[10/14/2011 9:10:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes but don't you trust my judgment on people I know extremelly well
[10/14/2011 9:10:32 AM] Sandro Maculan: and I know wouldn't lie to me in that spot
[10/14/2011 9:11:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he was mafia he wouldn't do that shit
[10/14/2011 9:11:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: syllo wouldn't even say he was town
[10/14/2011 9:11:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: in personality mafia
[10/14/2011 9:11:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: it is a fact man
[10/14/2011 9:11:37 AM] Chaosers: not at all, qatol and dreamflower technically know each other best but they've been wrong in their judgement of each other before. gm and barundar played three games with me and they were extremely comfortable with me having played as mafia with me as well as town in a row, and i got them to trust me when i was mafia
[10/14/2011 9:11:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: he was so disturbed talking to me and having to lie
[10/14/2011 9:11:47 AM] Sandro Maculan: he considered suiciding me night one
[10/14/2011 9:11:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: so he didn't have to deal with it
[10/14/2011 9:12:20 AM] Chaosers: i didn't know being a shitty mafia and then changing one's play was a town-tell now
[10/14/2011 9:12:28 AM] Chaosers: so basically in any PM game
[10/14/2011 9:12:31 AM] Chaosers: syllo can jsut talk to people
[10/14/2011 9:12:39 AM] Chaosers: and gt an auto town confirm?
[10/14/2011 9:13:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: well he can't do it anymore
[10/14/2011 9:13:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: since he would be auto mafia
[10/14/2011 9:14:00 AM] Sandro Maculan: any other time he didn't do this
[10/14/2011 9:14:33 AM] Chaosers: why would he be auto mafia?
[10/14/2011 9:14:45 AM] Chaosers: if he's mafia in this game
[10/14/2011 9:14:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: because if he does that evey game he is town
[10/14/2011 9:14:52 AM] Chaosers: why would he be auto mafia in another game
[10/14/2011 9:14:52 AM] Chaosers: for lying
[10/14/2011 9:14:55 AM] Chaosers: about a promise
[10/14/2011 9:14:56 AM] Chaosers: in this game?
[10/14/2011 9:14:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: well he is not
[10/14/2011 9:15:04 AM] Sandro Maculan: he wouldn't lie like that
[10/14/2011 9:15:15 AM] Sandro Maculan: I know him well man
[10/14/2011 9:15:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: he would just never mention it
[10/14/2011 9:18:22 AM] Chaosers: ...
At this point you can start to see that my logic is starting to get muddled as I don't call him out on any of his loggical infallacies in thread nor do I make a big deal out of it as I normally do, in particular, this one where he tries to convince me that because I thought he was town I should trust him that syllo is town:
[10/14/2011 9:09:14 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes I do
[10/14/2011 9:09:24 AM] Sandro Maculan: but what read do you have on me so far
[10/14/2011 9:09:42 AM] Chaosers: i read you as town but jsut becaus you are town doesn't mean you are right
[10/14/2011 9:10:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes but don't you trust my judgment on people I know extremelly well
[10/14/2011 9:10:32 AM] Sandro Maculan: and I know wouldn't lie to me in that spot
[10/14/2011 9:11:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he was mafia he wouldn't do that shit
This isn't me being a scum protecting another scum by not bringing this fact up in thread, this is me being a shitty player. If I was in any sort of sound mental state I would have immediately posted this in thread and been like WTF? and get me some towncred. Anyway, so we keep talking and after a while I start buying into the whole syllo is town thing for god knows what reason. Part of it was because I somehow still thought sandro was town at this point and also because I was still stuck up/mentally jarred by the 100%-town card thing as can be seen in my end convo with him:
+ Show Spoiler +[10/14/2011 10:36:10 AM] Chaosers: wouldn't it be easier to run yourself?
[10/14/2011 10:36:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: I have my reasons for not running
[10/14/2011 10:37:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: I followed my own plan
[10/14/2011 10:38:14 AM] Chaosers: ah
[10/14/2011 10:38:15 AM] Chaosers: got it
[10/14/2011 10:39:41 AM] Chaosers: ok i can get why you trust syllo now but why did he trust you enoguh to use his "100% town card"?
[10/14/2011 10:41:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: that I don't know
[10/14/2011 10:41:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe by thread?
[10/14/2011 10:41:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: I don't think I'm good scum
[10/14/2011 10:41:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm obvious as fuck as town
[10/14/2011 12:44:15 PM] Chaosers: do you acknowledge
[10/14/2011 12:44:20 PM] Chaosers: what syllo did
[10/14/2011 12:44:29 PM] Chaosers: was borderline unacceptable?
[10/14/2011 12:45:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: hmm
[10/14/2011 12:45:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: I aknowledge it's cheap
[10/14/2011 12:49:16 PM] Chaosers: acknowledge that it is unacceptable and i'll agree to your plan
[10/14/2011 12:49:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[10/14/2011 12:50:07 PM] Sandro Maculan: I wouldn't do it
[10/14/2011 12:50:26 PM] Sandro Maculan: but I don't think it's "unacceptable"
[10/14/2011 12:50:44 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's botherline cheating I'll give you that
[10/14/2011 12:50:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: borderlie*
[10/14/2011 12:50:52 PM] Sandro Maculan: wow
[10/14/2011 12:50:53 PM] Chaosers: ok
[10/14/2011 12:50:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: borderline
[10/14/2011 12:51:18 PM] Chaosers: i'm willing to withdraw
I am so muddled and not thinking straight that I completely buy into the sandroba/syllo are probably town since syllo "cheated" and during the time I first saw it I bought into the "he cheated, he's probably town" argument which is why I pmed GM about it. So much so that even though previously I was really suspicious of the trust level, I was willing to go along with it.
Even if you did say I was merely pushing an agenda, what agenda was I pushing? I'd understand if you think sandroba and I were on the same team and thus I would lie about my opinions on him to others by saying I support him and ignore radfield but clearly in this case I'm not connected to sandroba at all given how our conversation went down.
Seriously look at my play and ask yourself is this chaoser trying to be scummy or is this chaoser being tired as fuck and not being able to fully place his time into the game. If you want an example of me being busy as fuck and not being fully into the game go look at PYP Insane. I was Townie DT in that setup and everyone thought I was scummy. I gave shitty cases and my opinions on people looked like they wavered back in forth in thread because I had neither the time nor mental capacity at the time to post all my thought as they were coming up to paint a coherent and consistent picture.
some cases against me in that thread:
Also because I'm in the mood, I'll answer your questions.
1.) Chaoser- this might seem OMGUS, but his vote on me is entirely out of character, chaoser never just goes for an "easy" vote, yet he jumped on me for what I see as poor reasoning, something is off
Time constraints aside (and he hypothetically made time to 'catch up' on the thread after he announced the completion of his interview), this isn't the Chaoser from XXXVIII. He's not being inactive; he's lurking. And all good marines kill lurkers on sight.
I'm sorry if I'm bringing up past games again but I feel like this is a justifiable case of showing that I act exactly the same way when I'm preoccupied by life/medical school + not getting enough sleep.
Looking back on it all now with +9 hours of sleep in my body, I should have seen that sandroba was being extremely scummy from the get go.
I'll post up my DB case in the next post.
Oh and the whole "running a mayor campaign based on past games is hardly an arguement since the campaign was barely run cause I had no time to run one and I withdraw really early on (Friday afternoon). That frst post was clearly a post written lightheartedly. I thought I would have had more time when I first started to flesh out my platform but that ended up not being the case.
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By post up my DB case I mean I'll explain my train of thought behind it.
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So my DB suspicions started wayyy early when he was talking about framer. The fact that he was so bent on getting that role even though we all explained that it would be next to impossible to control a mafia KP as well as why you would even want to do that if you foun mafia and not just lynch them and finally wouldn't submit to my idea of having someone ban it from him was offputting.
When he had first started talking about framer it was in response to kita's posst about denying it/honesty checking it. After he found out he couldn't redirect KPs he states:
+ Show Spoiler +[14:58] <chaoser> [13:30] <kitaman27_> I told him he wouldn't be allowed to use his framer and he replied:
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:30] <kitaman27_> [11:20] <DropBear> for redirection [11:21] <DropBear> and for teh lulz
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <DropBear> kita
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <DropBear> where does it say
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <DropBear> that mafia kp is not redirected
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <chaoser> i just posted
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <chaoser> in thread
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <DropBear> oh
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <DropBear> thanks
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:32] <DropBear> well then fuck framer lol
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:33] <DropBear> that was the whole idea i had
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:33] <DropBear> fuck i gotta choose something different now -_-
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:33] <kitaman27_> the purpose of you taking it was for role denail
[14:58] <chaoser> [13:33] <kitaman27_> not because it was good for town
Kita calls him out on it.
I posted the case on him in a hurry becauase I had a lot of thoughts at the time already on the game and wanted to put my thoughts out in the thread for people to see because I was already worried I wasn't doing that very well due to being busy (Notice how instead of making actual arguments against people I had previously just posted a whole bunch of PMs? Even dropbear's case was basically me going here, read this, it is scummy)
Immediately afterwards I talked to Mig and Jackal about it and through the thinking it out process I realized that not only was it weak but that it was potentially tied to something foolishness had said earlier. So I dropped it:
+ Show Spoiler +[22:15] <chaosers> what about dropbear? [22:15] <Jackal58> I didn't say he was smart [22:15] <chaosers> well like [22:15] <chaosers> it was REALLY ba logic [22:15] <chaosers> bad [22:15] <Jackal58> I think DB is prob town [22:15] <chaosers> seriously/?? [22:15] <Jackal58> He tried a really stupid gambit [22:16] <chaosers> if DB is town then foolishness is probably town then since i tihnk they were trying to work together on the gambit [22:16] <chaosers> which is why foolishness was all like there's a 5th party! in IRC [22:16] <Jackal58> I missed that [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <Foolishness> I heard talk about a 5th faction [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <chaoser> that was dropbear [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <chaoser> saying he'd frame someone [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <chaoser> as the third party [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <@kitaman27> he was talking nonsense [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <chaoser> when ther is none [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <Foolishness> no no [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <Foolishness> it wasn't from him [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <chaoser> there's a hidden 5th faction? [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <chaoser> wtf [22:17] <chaosers> [23:04] <@kitaman27> who was it from? [22:17] <chaosers> [23:05] <Meapak> foolishness... [22:17] <chaosers> [23:05] <Foolishness> hmm I really don't want to say, but it sounded legit [22:17] <chaosers> [23:05] <Meapak> ARE YOU THE FACTION? [22:17] <chaosers> [23:05] <Foolishness> like I thought it was someone being like [22:17] <chaosers> [23:05] <Meapak> lol [22:17] <chaosers> [23:05] <Foolishness> LOL IM THE NEW BROWN PARTY KEKEKE [22:19] <Jackal58> lmao [22:20] <Jackal58> That changes DBs post in the thread a little bit. [22:22] <chaosers> what do you mean?/ [22:22] <Jackal58> lemme find it. [22:22] <chaosers> kk [22:24] <Jackal58> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11818175[22:25] <Jackal58> That's the post I was talking about. [22:25] <chaosers> yaeh i know lol
I can't find the Mig log for some reason but I'm sure he can corroborate that we did talk about dropbear and I did mention the foolishness thing
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As of currently I disagree with a Radfield/ Mig office and I disagree with sandroba being in office as well. If I had to pick someone to be lynched I'd say sandroba should be lynched just by our logs together. I'm most sure of Jackal, Mig as town and so would prefer they be in office instead. That or mig+WBG even though I know I'll probably be lynched by them if they are elected in.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/26/9938-mikehaggar.jpg)
