TL Mafia XLV

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Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 26 2011 12:13 GMT

#62

/in

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 11:35 GMT

#239

Ok guys I think that is plenty of trolling so lets actually start playing now.

1) No townies need to fake claim mute. There are virtually guaranteed to be some random townies who are mute to hide any possible snipers we have. So having people fake it is pointless. Along with that the ability to mason is very strong for town and hurts mafia a great deal. Mafia would love to fake claim mute so they didn't have to discuss things with people, don't give them an easy opportunity to do so.

2) Engineer invention - The only reasonable choices are 1) (medic) and 3) (watcher). If there is an engineer out there I highly recommend you choose watcher. Multiple recent TL games the town medics have badly fucked up the town by protecting mafia members. Watchers cannot help mafia by watching the wrong person. Along with that watchers actually make mafia less likely to hit the strong townies. Mafia are oftentimes willing to risk medics and hit a good townie because all they lose is a kp if he is saved. But if instead that person is watched the mafia is risking losing one of their members, and it makes it incredibly risky for mafia to ever double stack someone. I had to deal with this as mafia 2 games ago with foolish watchers are a huge bitch for mafia to deal with.

3) Balance - This won't really be applicable right now but in kurumi's last game I know he didn't RNG all the teams/roles completely and he balanced it fairly normally. So looking at the player list the top players would be myself/Curu/Palmar/ingonito/ and probably the smurf. There is around a 0% chance those 5 players are all town and I would say it is very likely 2 of those 5 are mafia and not just mafia but most likely the mafia power roles (GF, RB, etc). This doesn't do us much good ATM but everyone should be watching all of those players closely, especially as people die and there are fewer of them left.

Finally my skype/aim is migcom123. Anyone who wants to contact me on there can.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 11:48 GMT

#241

Mafia could figure out who are muted just by pming everyone and seeing who never responds. And I doubt mafia are going to be shooting into the only people who can't pm just in the hopes of hitting a sniper so I really doubt it matters whether people claim or not.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 14:47 GMT

#249

I haven't pmd anyone yet but I am not mute.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 15:57 GMT

#254

If a medic heals a burn victim does it inform the medic that he healed them?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 16:58 GMT

#263

Forumite do you know what a watcher does? I am not the one confusing him with a tracker.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 16:59 GMT

#264

If you are watcher you watch hi profile townies who are likely to be killed. If they die you can see who hit them if someone else visits them and the person doesn't die/claim rb/burn you have a confirmed townie. Please don't call my logic crap when you are clueless.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 17:14 GMT

#270

Does the engineer's sentry gun tell the engineer who visited the target or just say if someone did?

If it just says someone then yea you are right forumite that is garbage. But if that is the case then kurumi basically made the engineer only have 1 power that is even of any use whatsoever. Might as well have just made the engineer a medic.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 17:25 GMT

#272

Ok so engineer is basically worthless just do the medic invention.

Forumite why couldn't mafia fake claim being burned? Mafia fake claim being rbd all the time even tho it draws attention to them. This is no different except that it hurts town a ton more because it draws potential medics. That being said I agree with the rest of your points concerning burn people claiming. So meh I am not sure what is best honestly.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 20:43 GMT

#294

WBG if tnkted is mafia do you think he would announce this plan in the thread or would he just pm a bunch of people on his own? What motivation does mafia have to post the plan in thread.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 28 2011 20:58 GMT

#296

Ok but honestly who cares? So mafia shoots sinani/etc in the hopes of killing the vigs? Good for them. They are shooting people who can't mason and aren't hitting out other power roles. People who can't pm and vigs are a lot less important than active townies and meds/dts.

And you realize that if tnkted posts this plan to list the mutes in thread and suddenly mafia starts sniping them it makes him look terrible right? Mafia are much more likely to pm everyone on their own than they are to post about it in the thread and risk the backlash. And maybe you would want to pm people to try and manipulate them but in general the ability to pm strongly favors townies.

Your case against tnkted is incredibly weak you are stretching with almost all your statements to try and make him appear scummy.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 12:59 GMT

#408

Death to Palmar!

1) All of the analysis palmar has done this game has been half assed and incorrect. First of all his initial reason for voting Jackal is complete bs and factually wrong. I called him out on this on skype. Palmar voted Jackal because he said that when Jackal is town he gives more reasons for his votes.

+ Show Spoiler +

[2:49:30 AM] Mig: man tho your initial reasoning for voting jackal
[2:49:31 AM] Mig: so awful
[2:49:46 AM] Mig: in ace's game all of jackals posts where he votes someone
[2:49:49 AM] Mig: he says like half a sentence
[2:49:57 AM] Mig: he voted wbg by just posting a picture
[2:50:09 AM] Mig: and you use that as reasoning to vote for him and then use lotr meta as proof
[2:51:34 AM] Mig: pretty much the worst meta argument I have ever seen just blatantly incorrect
[2:51:49 AM] Palmar: read the other posts
[2:51:59 AM] Mig: I just read all of his wbg and your posts again
[2:52:21 AM] Mig: but all the reasons you actually listed in thread to vote jackal
[2:52:24 AM] Mig: are straight incorrect
[2:53:07 AM] Mig: like you went back to lotr to get that post of his to make your meta argument against jackal
[2:53:12 AM] Mig: wouldnt you have also checked ace
[2:53:14 AM] Mig: s
[2:53:15 AM] Mig: game
[2:53:19 AM] Mig: which just happened as well
[2:53:44 AM] Palmar: I forgot that game, I also checked resurrection where he was scum
[2:53:48 AM] Palmar: same thing, no informatino
[2:54:00 AM] Mig: what
[2:54:14 AM] Palmar: the point of it is he's stopping the flow of information
[2:54:22 AM] Palmar: the meta argument is just to back it up for the newbies
[2:54:29 AM] Mig: so you checked resurrection which is like 3 weeks old
[2:54:37 AM] Mig: but ignored the game that just ended
[2:54:45 AM] Mig: and forgot it wtf jackal was alive at the end
[2:54:52 AM] Mig: we discussed at length about it
[2:55:05 AM] Palmar: was jackal alive at the end in smg?
[2:55:16 AM] Mig: he was the last person shot before game ended
[2:55:21 AM] Palmar: I was scum in smg, I never actually read the threads when I'ms cum
[2:55:30 AM] Palmar: so I didn't remember that one

Ok so to summarize I tell Palmar his analysis is completely incorrect and if he had looked at Ace's game he would see that. So then he responds by saying he had forgotten about Ace's game and instead went back to resurrection mafia which ended weeks ago.

This is bullshit for 2 reasons A) Ace's game was very close me him and jackal were all alive with 6-7 people left and we discussed at length what our best play was concerning jackal. There is no way he could have just forgotten about it. B) if he had actually gone back to resurrection to do research why didn't he quote any of jackal's posts as scum to use as evidence? He quoted a LOTR post to show what Jackal does at town surely if he had gone back to read res he would have quoted a Jackal scum post. He is lying.

And Palmar has a history of trying to use bad meta arguments as scum. If anyone remembers personality mafia Palmar as scum used a terrible meta argument to try and get kurumi lynched day1. When Palmar is town his analysis is generally much more concrete and well thought out. His arguments this game are forced.

2) He is playing with a mafia mindset. I have been talking on skype to palmar and curu pretty much constantly throughout the game. I have been very suspicious of both of them so far, however a few hours ago I had to reconsider when Curu claimed to have an all black role pm. Even if Curu is mafia and had an all black pm he wouldn't post claiming that in the thread because he still runs the risk that townies names are blue in their pms. After seeing this I immediately rethought my suspicions and realized that Curu is most likely town. However look at how Palmar responded. Instead of reconsidering whether Curu could be town or not he instead immediately tried to twist it to make Curu appear scummy and serve his argument. Palmar isn't concerned at all about the possibility that Curu could be town and instead is only concerned with furthering his goals of lynching Curu. This and the fact that he didn't put any effort into actually researching his case against Jackal prove that Palmar is not playing with the town's best interests in mind.

Palmar is a liar, Palmar is not trying whatsoever to actually do any real scum hunting or help the town, Palmar is playing a very mafia oriented game where he only considers his goals and not what will help the town.

Death to Palmar!

##Vote: Palmar

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 13:28 GMT

#409

Also for anyone confused about curu being a probable townie because of pm color I explained it a little better in IRC.

[06:16] last time in kurumis game
[06:16] if you were mafia your name was red
[06:16] if you were town you were blue
[06:17] if curu is mafia he couldnt know that townies got black pms instead of blue ones
[06:17] for curu to claim black in thread means he almost certainly got a black townie pm himself
[06:21] so that is something palmar should have immediately realized if he was actually town
[06:21] instead he just used that to try and attack curu even more

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 13:51 GMT

#411

Regardless of whether it actually tells us anything about curu, Palmar's response to it is still extremely suspect and reveals a lot about his alignment.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 19:19 GMT

#461

Look the hosts asked people to stop discussing it so just drop the subject. Focus on the game at hand.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 19:24 GMT

#463

Curu probably isn't going to be modkilled he is being a melodramatic idiot. Just discuss palmar's claim etc and vote for who is most likely scum.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 19:45 GMT

#472

Unless Curu is a godlike actor with the hissy fit he threw on irc a few minutes ago he is almost certainly town in my eyes. And even before the hissy fit there was literally no case against him.

WBG do you have any reason whatsoever to think that Palmar is town besides "the wagon starting too fast".

And the wagon hasn't started quickly at all, he still only has like 5 votes on him so what are you even talking about.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 19:48 GMT

#473

The case against palmar is 2 things 1) manipulating and lying about the meta used against Jackal. He didn't just use it incorrectly he purposefully took things out of context and then lied about forgetting the game that just happened that showed what he said about Jackal was false. Along with that he completely ignored all of Jackal's posts in thread.

2) His reaction to curu's claim is hella scummy. Like I said a normal townie should have at least considered that maybe curu could be town. Instead palmar ignored new evidence and just attacked him again.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 19:51 GMT

#475

But how in the world is the case against Jackal even comparable to what palmar has done? Please summarize why exactly jackal is a better lynch instead of just repeating that he is over and over.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 20:18 GMT

#488

WBG the point is arguing about omgus doesn't matter. Some of your reasons for voting jackal are kind of ok but most are terrible and completely reaching. Do Jackal's posts seem that scummy to you? Most of his posts seem very reasonable to me.

And honestly Palmar really hasn't tried that hard to survive. Palmar is a townie at heart if he were really a dt I would expect him to be fighting non stop against this lynch and prevent the town from making a massive mistake.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 20:23 GMT

#490

But seriously this is the ultimate setup for Palmar as a dt. If he gets a green check he has a confirmed townie he can pm with and he is confident I am town. I can't see palmar putting in such a piss poor effort as a townie when this is the perfect scenario for him to be active and excel in. He is much much better than this.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 21:57 GMT

#518

BEST EVER

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 22:03 GMT

#525

Nice of you to show up sinani and kenpachi. Thanks for contributing

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 22:06 GMT

#528

Curu is not scum don't be retarded.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 22:18 GMT

#537

sinani did incog pm you asking if you were a sniper?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 22:19 GMT

#538

I am not 100% sold on WBG being scum just yet honestly. Would he and palmar be bad enough to really tie themselves so strongly together?

I am very very suspicious of Incog right now.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 29 2011 23:17 GMT

#559

NC is obviously not going to be lynched tomorrow. We just lynched a scum we should look at connections and see what it tells us to possibly find another. Randomly voting trolling NC does not help us.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 00:08 GMT

#578

Jackal is that serious? If so why would you shoot now and not later in the day when we have more information.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 00:18 GMT

#585

...............

Someone explain to me why everyone is a retard.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 00:20 GMT

#586

Forumite if you are actually a sniper you should forever quit mafia.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 09:59 GMT

#620

Forumite why did you post saying vigs should hold their shots then shoot/fakeshoot WBG? What was the point of that?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 10:11 GMT

#622

For the love of god any medics out there do not protect forumite.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 10:20 GMT

#624

Why in the world should medics protect you exactly? Have you done anything at all to show people that you are town?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 10:22 GMT

#626

Forumite is claiming he faked the shot because he thought jackal was the real sniper and he wanted to confuse the mafia, so they wouldn't know which of them to shoot. I can at least understand that but clearly no medics should protect Forumite.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 13:31 GMT

#636

Forumite.... If you are really blue why put yourself in the line of fire attempting to save the sniper? Doesn't that seem like an incredibly dumb thing to do?

I like all of prpl's posts against Incog. Incog is obviously by far the most likely to be the GF. GF is generally given to the most experienced player scum player. Since Palmar flipped pyro that only leaves like 2 people in the game who are more experienced so most likely Incog. There is some chance that GF was randomed tho so that certainly isn't enough to lynch Incog alone. But all of prpl's points against Incog are good and I will add another.

If anyone remembers Pick Your Power Insane Incognito made an amazing case against Ace when he figured out that Ace was practically guaranteed scum. Unfortunately because everyone suspected him of being mafia no one listened to him. So a very important lesson was drilled into him, as a townie always always establish your innocence or your arguments will never be heard. In fact look at these quotes of his from PYPI postgame

As a townie, you know your goal is to lynch all the mafia. But its easy to try to jump into the fray without knowing having a clear plan of action of how you are going to get to your goal. As has been stated before, the key is maintaining a positive town atmosphere. So how is this done? In order of descending importance:

1. Establish your innocence
2. Support the right townies
3. Vote properly
4. Shut down any attempts to lynch other obvious townies
5. Shut down attempts to spread doubt or chaos in the thread

The number 1 priority of any townie should be to establish your innocence. This priority is often overlooked by townies who feel the need to be useful in an active and eyepopping way. The truth is that simply being an obvious innocent can be worth a lot more than being an active but confused poster. Too much information and a lack of focus will derail the town and allow mafia to take advantage of the chaotic situation. On the other hand, even if you aren't an active poster, simply establishing your innocence goes a long way toward strangling the mafia. As Foolishness said in the XXX thread, sometimes the best way to find the mafia is by finding out who isn't mafia. Every player who establishes their innocence gives the mafia less room to hide. The more people acting in obviously innocent ways, the less room mafia has to push its own agenda, and the more exposed they become. Furthermore, being obviously innocent means you won't be lynched, which increases the chances of town lynching correctly and makes sure town doesn't lose time and focus running around in circles on witch hunts and.

This is amazing advice that all mafia players new and old should read and take to heart. So then why is Incognito playing exactly opposite of this? He hasn't done a single thing to prove his innocence and in fact practically everything he has done has just drawn even more suspicion onto himself.

Incognito has provided absolutely no solid opinions, given the town absolutely no reads on any players, done virtually no scum hunting and has been in general completely useless. And make no mistake Incognito is a very very good player. He should have seen what I saw about Palmar and have been able to pin him as scum instead of being so wishy washy about him. Randomly coming in and attacking Erandorr with a retarded reason was horrible, he is better than this. When you see a good player playing much much worse than they normally do it is usually a good sign that they are mafia.

Out of everyone left I am by far the most confident that Incognito is scum. If I die tonight Incognito needs to be killed before anyone else.

Death to Incognito!

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 13:36 GMT

#637

Concerning WBG : He played absolutely horrific yesterday, his blind multiple defenses are just awful. But he has 2 things going in his favor.

1) Would he and Palmar really tie themselves so tightly together on day 1? As scum I don't see Palmar defend his scum mates early on that often. It would be unbelievably reckless and bad play for them to so blatantly defend each other if they were both scum.

2) After Jackal/Forumite aimed at WBG he added me on skype and gave me like 5000 ideas for who he thought was scum etc. If he was scum I think it is a lot more likely he would have just gone silent and waited to die, but he rushed to tell me things because he thought he would die within the hour. A very very townie thing to do.

These things don't guarantee that WBG is town but he is definitely not the best target at all for tomorrow. Incognito is 100x scummier.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 13:42 GMT

#638

And just to add another thing against Incognito. Look at that list of 5 things townies should do that he created after PYPI. Now ask yourself has he done a single one of them? No.

He comes in criticizes the thread and says it is in terrible shape yet disappears and does nothing to improve it.

Does he use his vote to try and lead the lynch against the person he thinks is scummiest? No he contributes nothing then appears 30 minutes before the day is over to throw a horrible vote on Erandorr.

Death to Incognito

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 18:18 GMT

#663

Either way it doesn't matter who the smurf is.

Also Jackal if you don't think me/curu are town at this point you never will.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 19:36 GMT

#676

I would expect there to almost certainly be a GF in this game. Last time Kurumi hosted the town had no dts and mafia still had a GF. So regardless of what roles we have a GF is very likely to exist.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 20:36 GMT

#688

I am very very uncertain about jackal or forumite being scum. There are many things about forumite's play that fall directly in line with bad town and not scum.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 22:06 GMT

#700

Lynch Incognito

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 22:07 GMT

#701

Oh also I was rbd and muted last night

Mig

United States4714 Posts

September 30 2011 22:35 GMT

#709

During the middle of last night I was informed I was rbd/muted. I am fine now.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 00:01 GMT

#804

Hey Kenpachi I have a question for you friend. I am looking at the pms you quoted from incog.

Original Message From Incognito:
Hey, I really suspect that Erandorr is mafia. Could you do me a favor and PM him to see if you can find anything?

Original Message From Incognito:
what do you think of Erandorr? I'm quite suspicious of him. If you agree with my suspicions, would you mind PMing him to see what you can find?

Uhhh why are these different? Are you trying to say Incognito sent you 2 pm saying virtually the exact same thing? Because if not it looks a lot like you just faked your pms with Incognito.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 00:13 GMT

#808

k I think it is still weird that he sent you virtually the exact same pm twice. Although less definite now.

Did anyone else get his 2nd pm?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 00:15 GMT

#810

When did he pm you erandorr?

Also did you reply to his first pm ken or only the 2nd?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 02:51 GMT

#846

Ok a couple things.

A) I can virtually guarantee nothing came up in Palmar's life that theory is completely wrong.

B) Curu did not in any way whatsoever manipulate me lol. Everything I posted against palmar and incognito I came up with on my own. Curu is not some insane mastermind pulling my strings I decided on my own both palmar and incog were scummy before he ever said anything to me and I did all my research on them.

C) The point about emphasizing him and palmar being opposite alignments is just lol. Of course curu doesn't think that is a serious reason to vote palmar. That has been a running joke for like the last 4 games.

D) WBG's post doesn't make curu look scummy in anyway and is just lol.

I will talk to some people that I trust and reconsider everything but right now I am way way more confident in an incog lynch than curu lynch.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 02:56 GMT

#849

My last 2 games I played with Curu and scum and Palmar as scum. They do not come up with these ridiculously intricate plans at all lol. Especially Palmar who hates being scum so much and puts absolutely no effort in everytime he is scum. You pointed out that palmar attacks his teammates a lot day 1, which is true but look at the attacks they are always completely half assed.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 03:05 GMT

#852

Everything palmar did this game was half assed. Including his attack on Jackal and all the times I talked to him on skype. I don't think he decided to half ass everything and at the same time come up with this ridiculous plan with curu.

I am just laughing at this I mean lets use some common sense here, which is more likely curu/palmar monsterous bus master scheme? Or uh how about curu is just town? Most times the simplest answer is the correct one.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 03:17 GMT

#854

Meh I will just be upfront. I claimed Vanilla to curu once palmar flipped red. Then like 10 hours later I was rbd and muted during the night. Curu then later tried to talk to me on skype multiple times after I was muted. I guess that was all just part of their sick master plan? Even though he had done enough to convince me that I was town that I claimed to him he decided he needed even more credit and rbd me. Genius!

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 03:31 GMT

#856

[9/29/2011 3:40:54 PM] Charles Suo: the confirmed town scum lyncher sup
[9/29/2011 3:43:54 PM] Charles Suo: so are you an engineer
[9/29/2011 3:43:57 PM] Charles Suo: you should prolly heal me\
[9/29/2011 3:45:57 PM] Mig: I am a fucking vt
[9/29/2011 3:45:59 PM] Mig: of course
[9/29/2011 3:46:06 PM] Charles Suo: oh
[9/29/2011 3:46:06 PM] Charles Suo: damn
[9/29/2011 3:46:07 PM] Mig: drawing a hit like a fucking champ as usual

Here is where I claimed on skype right after palmar lynch incase anyone doubts.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 03:38 GMT

#857

And I guess Palmar and Curu were also taking the time to fake convos to send to me just to trick me. What masterminds!

[6:57:24 AM] Charles Suo: so palmero
[6:57:27 AM] Charles Suo: was your role pm blue
[6:57:43 AM] Palmar: yep
[6:57:57 AM] Palmar: actually no
[6:57:59 AM] Palmar: it had no color
[6:58:05 AM] Palmar: it just said "BLU

[9/28/2011 11:09:15 AM] Charles Suo: hi palmar
[9/28/2011 12:43:29 PM] Charles Suo: hi palmar
[9/28/2011 12:43:45 PM] Palmar: sup
[9/28/2011 12:43:50 PM] Palmar: you're playing xlv?
[9/28/2011 12:44:05 PM] Charles Suo: yes
[9/28/2011 12:44:10 PM] Charles Suo: are you scum
[9/28/2011 12:44:16 PM] Palmar: I may or may not have accidentally told mig my role
[9/28/2011 12:44:24 PM] Palmar: because I didn't

Palmar did role claim to me as soon as the game started and tried to pass it off as a mistake which I called him out on for being bs because there was no way he would fuck up badly enough to claim dt to me at the start of the game.

[9/28/2011 4:37:59 AM] Mig: palmar
[9/28/2011 4:38:02 AM] Mig: you are mafia arent you
[9/28/2011 9:15:54 AM] Palmar: in xlv?
[9/28/2011 9:15:59 AM] Palmar: no, town
[9/28/2011 9:16:53 AM] Mig: likely story
[9/28/2011 9:16:55 AM] Palmar: I'm blu pyro
[9/28/2011 9:16:56 AM] Palmar: wait
[9/28/2011 9:17:02 AM] Palmar: are you playing?
[9/28/2011 9:17:04 AM] Mig: yes
[9/28/2011 9:17:06 AM] Palmar: derp
[9/28/2011 9:17:16 AM] Mig: I have no idea if I should believe that or not lol
[9/28/2011 9:17:35 AM] Mig: lol you just claimed dt
[9/28/2011 9:17:44 AM] Palmar: if you're mafia
[9/28/2011 9:17:48 AM] Mig: nah I am town
[9/28/2011 9:17:52 AM] Palmar: fuck
[9/28/2011 9:18:59 AM] Palmar: if you're town
[9/28/2011 9:19:03 AM] Palmar: help me figure this out
[9/28/2011 9:19:05 AM] Palmar: oh wait
[9/28/2011 9:19:07 AM] Palmar: I got it
[9/28/2011 9:19:14 AM] Palmar: I'll just pm obvious townies that you know my role

[9/28/2011 9:23:06 AM] Mig: I dont actually know if you are pyro
[9/28/2011 9:25:13 AM] Mig: the sick thing is you didnt realize we were both mafia in ace's game so maybe you are just careless enough to really not know?
[9/28/2011 9:25:33 AM] Mig: but on the other hand I know that you know that along with would you really not look at the player list if you were dt
[9/28/2011 9:25:36 AM] Mig: and just insta claim to me
[9/28/2011 9:26:00 AM] Palmar: good analysis.
[9/28/2011 9:26:04 AM] Palmar: I'm checking you night 1.
[9/28/2011 9:26:20 AM] Mig: lol
[9/28/2011 9:26:24 AM] Mig: lolol
[9/28/2011 9:26:57 AM] Mig: you are such a troll I really don't know what I should believe I guess I will be able to tell hopefully with how you play rest of the day

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 03:53 GMT

#859

Sevryn is there something wrong with you in the head? Did you not see what I posted?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:15 GMT

#863

Because townies in general are dumb and it is easy for them to get a dumb bandwagon going. Why shouldn't I defend curu if I think he is town?

Explain to me why he roleblocked me after I claimed vanilla sevryn.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:31 GMT

#865

Also nice that incognito NC and WBG all disappeared from the thread instead of commenting on what I posted.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:33 GMT

#866

Sevryn are you serious....... I mean come on.

This entire supposed master plan to bus palmar was to gain infinite town cred for curu and get people to trust him. After doing that why the fuck would he think I would lie to him? Use some common sense here. Of course I was telling him the truth.

He had literally no motivation to ever roleblock me after I claimed vanilla to him. Even if he thought there was some small chance I was lying why risk wasting the roleblock when he could use it on any of the numerous other people who hadn't claimed vanilla.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:42 GMT

#869

I never said town power roles weren't RNG durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Of course new players can have blue roles. I said the teams weren't RNGd skill wise.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:43 GMT

#870

And you just completely ignored my entire point. Why the fuck would he think I am lying after he just convinced me that he is town by bussing palmar? It makes no sense.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:47 GMT

#872

Because that's how mafia games work..... The town power roles are much more likely to be rngd where the mafia ones are not. Curu knows this.

Is it a possibility that curu thought I was lying uhhhh I guess. But even if he thought there was some chance I was lying why would he not role block smurf or Incognito who are both more experienced than I am and hadn't claimed vanilla to him? Why the fuck would he roleblock the only experienced player to claim roleblock I mean come on! And aren't you curious what mafia didn't roleblock smurf or Incognito to mute them when they do literally almost ALL their work in pms. While I am active in the thread?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:47 GMT

#873

EBWOP: Why the fuck would he roleblock the only experienced player to claim vanilla

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:52 GMT

#875

It is like talking to a box of bricks.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:57 GMT

#879

Yes that is exactly right sevryn it does make perfect sense for them to mute someone like me who is active in pms. However according to NC, curu's master plan was to bus palmar and then manipulate me. Remember curu supposedly manipulated me into lynching palmar and is now manipulating me into lynching Incognito. Soooo if this were the case why mute me? How can he manipulate me if I am mute?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 04:58 GMT

#880

NC you claimed Curu is manipulating me friend. If so I am sure he would tell his team not to RB me. Seems pretty logical to me.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 05:24 GMT

#885

Curu came online less than 10 minutes ago I asked him to post his logs and he did it. And I had only seen small parts of that. So uhhhh I guess he and palmar had already faked all of this just to be ready for this scenario? Holy shit what a sick plan!

And if anyone wants it here is my logs with palmar
+ Show Spoiler +

[9/28/2011 4:38:09 AM] Mig: palmar
[9/28/2011 4:38:12 AM] Mig: you are mafia arent you
[9/28/2011 9:16:03 AM] Palmar: in xlv?
[9/28/2011 9:16:09 AM] Palmar: no, town
[9/28/2011 9:17:03 AM] Mig: likely story
[9/28/2011 9:17:06 AM] Palmar: I'm blu pyro
[9/28/2011 9:17:07 AM] Palmar: wait
[9/28/2011 9:17:12 AM] Palmar: are you playing?
[9/28/2011 9:17:14 AM] Mig: yes
[9/28/2011 9:17:17 AM] Palmar: derp
[9/28/2011 9:17:26 AM] Mig: I have no idea if I should believe that or not lol
[9/28/2011 9:17:45 AM] Mig: lol you just claimed dt
[9/28/2011 9:17:54 AM] Palmar: if you're mafia
[9/28/2011 9:17:58 AM] Mig: nah I am town
[9/28/2011 9:18:02 AM] Palmar: fuck
[9/28/2011 9:19:09 AM] Palmar: if you're town
[9/28/2011 9:19:13 AM] Palmar: help me figure this out
[9/28/2011 9:19:16 AM] Palmar: oh wait
[9/28/2011 9:19:18 AM] Palmar: I got it
[9/28/2011 9:19:24 AM] Palmar: I'll just pm obvious townies that you know my role
[9/28/2011 9:19:40 AM] Palmar: meant to say something in the thread, but that's as good as claiming I have a role
[9/28/2011 9:20:27 AM] Mig: lol if you are actually dt that is great
[9/28/2011 9:20:33 AM] Palmar: anyway, is the thread worth reading?
[9/28/2011 9:20:43 AM] Mig: first 3 pages no
[9/28/2011 9:21:00 AM] Mig: actually everything but the end of page 12-13
[9/28/2011 9:21:02 AM] Mig: is worthless
[9/28/2011 9:21:04 AM] Palmar: I saw a bunch of people wanted to lynch me so I just went afk
[9/28/2011 9:22:17 AM] Mig: I have no idea if I should trust you or not
[9/28/2011 9:22:35 AM] Palmar: I know I should trust you
[9/28/2011 9:22:40 AM] Palmar: shouldn't
[9/28/2011 9:22:54 AM] Mig: yea thats fine it doesnt really matter whether you do or not
[9/28/2011 9:23:05 AM] Mig: if you are actually pyro its too late for you to decide
[9/28/2011 9:23:06 AM] Palmar: now you claim bitch
[9/28/2011 9:23:15 AM] Mig: I dont actually know if you are pyro
[9/28/2011 9:25:23 AM] Mig: the sick thing is you didnt realize we were both mafia in ace's game so maybe you are just careless enough to really not know?
[9/28/2011 9:25:43 AM] Mig: but on the other hand I know that you know that along with would you really not look at the player list if you were dt
[9/28/2011 9:25:46 AM] Mig: and just insta claim to me
[9/28/2011 9:26:10 AM] Palmar: good analysis.
[9/28/2011 9:26:15 AM] Palmar: I'm checking you night 1.
[9/28/2011 9:26:30 AM] Mig: lol
[9/28/2011 9:26:34 AM] Mig: lolol
[9/28/2011 9:27:07 AM] Mig: you are such a troll I really don't know what I should believe I guess I will be able to tell hopefully with how you play rest of the day
[9/28/2011 9:28:04 AM] Palmar: I don't intend to actually play
[9/28/2011 9:28:09 AM] Palmar: just pm people a bit
[9/28/2011 9:28:39 AM] Mig: k that sounds about right for mafia palmar
[9/28/2011 9:29:29 AM] Palmar: why even bother?
[9/28/2011 9:29:34 AM] Palmar: you're gonna murder me n1 anyway
[9/28/2011 9:29:43 AM] Mig: lolol
[9/28/2011 9:30:13 AM] Mig: sick story for not giving any effort
[9/28/2011 9:30:36 AM] Palmar: I mean, why do you bother trying to analyse me
[9/28/2011 9:31:36 AM] Mig: well that's a good question considering I expect to die n1 and I probably wouldn't try to lynch you/curu unless I was really sure but
[9/28/2011 9:31:39 AM] Mig: in the off chance I survive
[9/28/2011 9:31:55 AM] Mig: best that I know
[9/28/2011 9:32:20 AM] Palmar: wish I was a vigi, I'd just shoot you n1
[9/28/2011 9:32:21 AM] Palmar: just in case
[9/28/2011 9:33:03 AM] Mig: if you are actually town you should put effort in
[9/28/2011 9:34:14 AM] Mig: but I doubt you are town
[9/28/2011 9:34:14 AM] Palmar: I'm just gonna play exactly like in lotr
[9/28/2011 9:34:20 AM] Palmar: seems to be a good way to be not shot
[9/28/2011 9:34:37 AM] Mig: like even if you were disinterested I can't imagine you would be that careless
[9/28/2011 9:36:03 AM] Palmar: yeah you're no fun, and probably scum anyway
[9/28/2011 9:36:18 AM] Mig: lol
[9/28/2011 9:36:34 AM] Palmar: I'm gonna go see if jackal wants to talk to me
[9/28/2011 9:36:48 AM] Mig: he claimed mute in thread
[9/28/2011 9:37:12 AM] Palmar: oh, I thought he just didn't wanna talk to tnkted
[9/28/2011 9:37:15 AM] Palmar: and db
[9/28/2011 9:37:18 AM] Palmar: because of bads
[9/28/2011 9:37:19 AM] Mig: rofl
[9/28/2011 9:39:17 AM] Palmar: why does wbg think he's the shit?
[9/28/2011 9:39:34 AM] Mig: that's a good question
[9/28/2011 2:01:15 PM] Mig: palmar you make me sad that you are mafia
[9/28/2011 2:01:25 PM] Mig: I have no one to talk to
[9/28/2011 4:39:29 PM] Palmar: how about your team?
[9/28/2011 4:39:40 PM] Palmar: do they not want to talk with you?
[9/28/2011 4:39:49 PM] Palmar: Where is curu?
[9/28/2011 4:39:53 PM] Palmar: with lotr
[9/28/2011 4:39:56 PM] Palmar: did I die? win?
[9/28/2011 4:46:47 PM] Palmar: why does jackal think wbg is scum?
[9/29/2011 2:21:37 AM] Mig: you won lotr n
[9/29/2011 2:21:44 AM] Mig: now you should put effort into XLV
[9/29/2011 2:22:01 AM] Palmar: yay me!
[9/29/2011 2:22:03 AM] Palmar: jackal is scum
[9/29/2011 2:22:13 AM] Palmar: incog possibly too
[9/29/2011 2:22:20 AM] Palmar: curu possibly too
[9/29/2011 2:22:30 AM] Palmar: and probably some newbie/newbies
[9/29/2011 2:23:27 AM] Mig: hm hm
[9/29/2011 2:23:36 AM] Mig: wbg tho doesn't this look like he is overreacting so hard
[9/29/2011 2:23:41 AM] Mig: in lotr when a couple people voted him
[9/29/2011 2:23:44 AM] Mig: he didn't flip out
[9/29/2011 2:23:48 AM] Mig: he has posted literally like 30 times
[9/29/2011 2:23:56 AM] Mig: because of 2 votes on him
[9/29/2011 2:24:01 AM] Mig: in lotr he was calm and cool about it
[9/29/2011 2:24:11 AM] Mig: knowing there wasnt a real case there
[9/29/2011 2:24:11 AM] Palmar: "calm and cool" lol
[9/29/2011 2:24:16 AM] Mig: well
[9/29/2011 2:24:19 AM] Mig: in comparison
[9/29/2011 2:24:20 AM] Mig: to this
[9/29/2011 2:24:27 AM] Mig: where he went off the deep end
[9/29/2011 2:24:30 AM] Mig: to explode with 500 posts
[9/29/2011 2:25:37 AM] Mig: I agree with your point about jackal claiming mute being something he would do as mafia
[9/29/2011 2:25:43 AM] Mig: I told curu the same thing yesterday
[9/29/2011 2:25:43 AM] Palmar: yah, but it just seems counter-intuitive
[9/29/2011 2:25:54 AM] Palmar: like all he's doing is dragging suspicion onto himself
[9/29/2011 2:26:28 AM] Mig: well yea but you have to remember he is hot headed and new he isnt going to play 100% correctly as mafia
[9/29/2011 2:27:53 AM] Palmar: have you read his filter?
[9/29/2011 2:28:02 AM] Mig: I just read pages 16-20
[9/29/2011 2:28:24 AM] Palmar: Thing is, I don't think he's good enough to do what he's doing
[9/29/2011 2:28:43 AM] Palmar: he's not confident enough to be mafia and yet say "Well then vote me bitch" or "I dare you establish why I'm scummy"
[9/29/2011 2:29:38 AM] Mig: yea I noticied that line but once people do vote for him he freaks out
[9/29/2011 2:30:06 AM] Mig: doesnt that contradict with the attitude he is trying to display
[9/29/2011 2:31:04 AM] Palmar: are you scum?
[9/29/2011 2:31:28 AM] Palmar: he's the easy wagon, it's never the easy wagon.
[9/29/2011 2:32:22 AM] Mig: it is the easy wagon sometimes if someone outs themself but I haven't voted yet either I am still trying to figure out what is right
[9/29/2011 2:33:10 AM] Mig: and "easy wagon" he has 2 votes on him right now jackal has 3
[9/29/2011 2:35:21 AM] Mig: meh this sucks having just you and curu to talk to where is fucking syllo
[9/29/2011 2:35:33 AM] Palmar: lol
[9/29/2011 2:35:52 AM] Mig: like both the things you and curu tell me are vague and tell me basically nothing
[9/29/2011 2:36:04 AM] Palmar: he's scum
[9/29/2011 2:36:13 AM] Mig: yea he says the same about you
[9/29/2011 2:36:15 AM] Mig: great help
[9/29/2011 2:37:03 AM] Mig: where is the normal jackal defense btw when people call him out and he is scum doesnt he usually just completely blow them off
[9/29/2011 2:37:07 AM] Mig: and tell them to kiss his ass
[9/29/2011 2:37:23 AM] Mig: all his reponses to wbg were perfectly rational from his viewpoint
[9/29/2011 2:37:36 AM] Palmar: They have to be
[9/29/2011 2:37:59 AM] Palmar: after all, he's actively trying to get WBG lynched (which is to be honest a big green factor in my wbg book).
[9/29/2011 2:38:28 AM] Palmar: I'm not too sure what to read into incog's post
[9/29/2011 2:38:36 AM] Palmar: I guess it's a non-issue as lynching him day 1 would be dumb
[9/29/2011 2:38:53 AM] Palmar: he's good enough to reveal his alignment through simply posting
[9/29/2011 2:39:07 AM] Palmar: and lynching him case he's scum and not just lazy is not optimal
[9/29/2011 2:39:36 AM] Mig: incog'
[9/29/2011 2:39:50 AM] Mig: posts are fucking worthless
[9/29/2011 2:39:50 AM] Palmar: yeah, talking about incog
[9/29/2011 2:39:59 AM] Palmar: yes
[9/29/2011 2:40:13 AM] Palmar: But I don't wanna lynch him over it
[9/29/2011 2:40:25 AM] Mig: well obviously cant
[9/29/2011 2:40:34 AM] Mig: he added me on aim I havent had a chance to talk to him yet
[9/29/2011 2:40:40 AM] Palmar: I don't know
[9/29/2011 2:40:44 AM] Palmar: I can lynch a lot of people
[9/29/2011 2:40:48 AM] Mig: but hopefully tomorrow will get some clue
[9/29/2011 2:40:50 AM] Palmar: when I put my mind to it
[9/29/2011 2:40:58 AM] Mig: well I meant in terms of correct play
[9/29/2011 2:41:03 AM] Palmar: yeah
[9/29/2011 2:41:06 AM] Mig: I cant im agine it ever being right to lynch incog day1
[9/29/2011 2:41:06 AM] Palmar: of course.
[9/29/2011 2:41:13 AM] Palmar: yep, my point exactly
[9/29/2011 2:41:21 AM] Palmar: I'm actually trying not to be a dick in the thread this game
[9/29/2011 2:49:45 AM] Mig: man tho your initial reasoning for voting jackal
[9/29/2011 2:49:46 AM] Mig: so awful
[9/29/2011 2:50:01 AM] Mig: in ace's game all of jackals posts where he votes someone
[9/29/2011 2:50:04 AM] Mig: he says like half a sentence
[9/29/2011 2:50:12 AM] Mig: he voted wbg by just posting a picture
[9/29/2011 2:50:24 AM] Mig: and you use that as reasoning to vote for him and then use lotr meta as proof
[9/29/2011 2:51:49 AM] Mig: pretty much the worst meta argument I have ever seen just blatantly incorrect
[9/29/2011 2:52:04 AM] Palmar: read the other posts
[9/29/2011 2:52:15 AM] Mig: I just read all of his wbg and your posts again
[9/29/2011 2:52:36 AM] Mig: but all the reasons you actually listed in thread to vote jackal
[9/29/2011 2:52:39 AM] Mig: are straight incorrect
[9/29/2011 2:53:23 AM] Mig: like you went back to lotr to get that post of his to make your meta argument against jackal
[9/29/2011 2:53:27 AM] Mig: wouldnt you have also checked ace
[9/29/2011 2:53:30 AM] Mig: s
[9/29/2011 2:53:31 AM] Mig: game
[9/29/2011 2:53:35 AM] Mig: which just happened as well
[9/29/2011 2:53:59 AM] Palmar: I forgot that game, I also checked resurrection where he was scum
[9/29/2011 2:54:03 AM] Palmar: same thing, no informatino
[9/29/2011 2:54:16 AM] Mig: what
[9/29/2011 2:54:29 AM] Palmar: the point of it is he's stopping the flow of information
[9/29/2011 2:54:37 AM] Palmar: the meta argument is just to back it up for the newbies
[9/29/2011 2:54:45 AM] Mig: so you checked resurrection which is like 3 weeks old
[9/29/2011 2:54:52 AM] Mig: but ignored the game that just ended
[9/29/2011 2:55:01 AM] Mig: and forgot it wtf jackal was alive at the end
[9/29/2011 2:55:08 AM] Mig: we discussed at length about it
[9/29/2011 2:55:20 AM] Palmar: was jackal alive at the end in smg?
[9/29/2011 2:55:32 AM] Mig: he was the last person shot before game ended
[9/29/2011 2:55:36 AM] Palmar: I was scum in smg, I never actually read the threads when I'ms cum
[9/29/2011 2:55:45 AM] Palmar: so I didn't remember that one
[9/29/2011 2:56:30 AM] Mig: solid
[9/29/2011 2:56:35 AM] Mig: real solid
[9/29/2011 2:56:48 AM] Palmar: yeah, you're actively trying to stretch points
[9/29/2011 2:57:35 AM] Mig: k
[9/29/2011 2:58:08 AM] Palmar: can't tell if you're just putting on pressure to try and figure out if I'm scum, or if you're preparing to make a scummy-ass case against me
[9/29/2011 3:00:39 AM] Mig: I can't imagine you being town and not being able to tell my alignment right now
[9/29/2011 3:01:48 AM] Mig: we have played in enough games at this point I can't see how you would have doubts
[9/29/2011 3:04:27 AM] Palmar: That's so flawed
[9/29/2011 3:04:32 AM] Palmar: if I'm scum I already know your alignment
[9/29/2011 3:04:40 AM] Mig: well no shit
[9/29/2011 3:04:49 AM] Mig: but obviously you feign that you don't
[9/29/2011 3:05:21 AM] Palmar: but I'm town, and you're being terribly wrong about my motivations. Like you saw me do exactly the same thing to dropbear in xliv, where I take a simple meta argument and turn it into a case
[9/29/2011 3:05:37 AM] Mig: I saw you do the exact same thing day1 in personality
[9/29/2011 3:05:48 AM] Mig: where you made a terrible and incorrect meta argument against kurumi
[9/29/2011 3:06:00 AM] Mig: and I wanted to call you out as scum then but
[9/29/2011 3:06:03 AM] Mig: your other posts were good
[9/29/2011 3:06:06 AM] Mig: and I forgot about it
[9/29/2011 3:06:31 AM] Mig: but believe me I remembered it after
[9/29/2011 3:06:37 AM] Palmar: yeah
[9/29/2011 3:07:19 AM] Palmar: but about your alignment, aside from being wrong on almost every front (wbg scum, me scum, jackal town) I think you're town
[9/29/2011 3:07:35 AM] Palmar: btu I don't know if you're just being lazy or thick
[9/29/2011 3:08:03 AM] Mig: I am clearly not being lazy and everyting I have stated has been factually correct
[9/29/2011 3:08:18 AM] Mig: I havent stated whether wbg or jackal are scum yet
[9/29/2011 3:08:36 AM] Palmar: yes, but you're ignoring evidence that doesn't suit you, and you're using evidence that works for your point of view
[9/29/2011 3:08:47 AM] Palmar: you're bending evidence to fit the case, not bending the case to fit the evidence
[9/29/2011 3:09:01 AM] Mig: no I am not retard I don't have a case yet
[9/29/2011 3:09:10 AM] Mig: thats the entire point of talking to you is I am trying to make up my mind
[9/29/2011 3:09:12 AM] Palmar: Well you're acting like one
[9/29/2011 3:09:44 AM] Palmar: You say you read Jackal's filter.
[9/29/2011 3:09:56 AM] Palmar: he's basically ignored me and continued to focus on his interactions with bum
[9/29/2011 3:10:08 AM] Palmar: the best defense of jackal in the thread is that incog says both the wagons are terrible
[9/29/2011 3:10:30 AM] Palmar: which is going to be highly likely to be right regardless of incog's alignment
[9/29/2011 3:10:42 AM] Mig: huh
[9/29/2011 3:10:53 AM] Mig: if it's highly likely to be right why are you so certain of jackal
[9/29/2011 3:11:29 AM] Mig: but yea I can agree with that statement
[9/29/2011 3:11:31 AM] Palmar: because I think I'm more often right than incog
[9/29/2011 3:11:33 AM] Mig: concerning incog saying that
[9/29/2011 3:11:44 AM] Palmar: but that's the only big thing that's made me second-guess myself
[9/29/2011 3:11:50 AM] Mig: but that maybe putting incog on too high of a pedastal
[9/29/2011 3:11:54 AM] Palmar: yep
[9/29/2011 3:12:01 AM] Mig: he was incorrect and mislynched day1 on pypi
[9/29/2011 3:12:23 AM] Palmar: Well let's put it this way, he'd definitely say exactly that as mafia
[9/29/2011 3:12:30 AM] Palmar: but we can't lynch him today
[9/29/2011 3:12:38 AM] Palmar: he'd probably also say something similar as town
[9/29/2011 3:12:47 AM] Palmar: and then it comes down to whether or not I think he's right
[9/29/2011 3:12:54 AM] Mig: right
[9/29/2011 3:13:13 AM] Palmar: and until jackal's defense is something more than an omgus on wbg I'm not convinced he's right
[9/29/2011 3:14:08 AM] Palmar: but the chances of him being right are still significantly higher than most other people in the game
[9/29/2011 3:17:54 AM] Mig: yea its a really good point
[9/29/2011 3:18:41 AM] Palmar: you scum?
[9/29/2011 3:19:01 AM] Palmar: well here's wifom for you
[9/29/2011 3:19:10 AM] Palmar: I'm gonna check if incog burns tonight
[9/29/2011 3:19:20 AM] Palmar: at this rate, at least.
[9/29/2011 3:19:54 AM] Palmar: I don't think curu actually needs to be checked, he'll give himself away soon enough
[9/29/2011 3:21:19 AM] Mig: that would be useless
[9/29/2011 3:21:29 AM] Mig: what are the odds incog is mafia and not the gf
[9/29/2011 3:21:41 AM] Palmar: good point
[9/29/2011 3:27:55 AM] Palmar: ok just talked to curu he's scum.
[9/29/2011 3:28:14 AM] Palmar: and he's taking a page out of cheesekid's book, it's generally safe to tunnel me as people always think I'm scum
[9/29/2011 3:28:14 AM] Palmar: check it
[9/29/2011 3:28:23 AM] Palmar: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11570450
[9/29/2011 3:28:40 AM] Palmar: this is interesting, like you can say my argument against jackal and defense of wbg is bad
[9/29/2011 3:28:47 AM] Palmar: but this post actually comes before any of that.
[9/29/2011 3:29:16 AM] Palmar: I had actually said nothing in the thread before this post
[9/29/2011 3:29:31 AM] Palmar: asked people to add me on skype and said that I could ignore the game for a while.
[9/29/2011 3:30:28 AM] Mig: ok but so what we both know that curu trolls at the beginning as town/scum what do you take that post as serious
[9/29/2011 3:30:39 AM] Mig: he didnt vote for you he didnt make a case against you
[9/29/2011 3:30:44 AM] Mig: why are you looking so hard into nothing
[9/29/2011 3:31:03 AM] Mig: I think curu is shady on skype but that post is a throwaway joke comment
[9/29/2011 3:31:05 AM] Palmar: if he was trolling
[9/29/2011 3:31:12 AM] Palmar: why does it still apply'
[9/29/2011 3:31:13 AM] Palmar: ?
[9/29/2011 3:32:08 AM] Mig: you just gave like 6 reasons for why a 6 word comment makes curu scum
[9/29/2011 3:32:18 AM] Palmar: yeah?
[9/29/2011 3:32:29 AM] Palmar: and you actually have a problem with that?
[9/29/2011 3:32:45 AM] Mig: I have a problem with it being pointless its null
[9/29/2011 3:32:53 AM] Palmar: I figured out tnkted was town on 1 single word in cosmic horror mafia
[9/29/2011 3:33:07 AM] Palmar: and I forced a no-lynch to safe him, on 1 word.
[9/29/2011 3:33:17 AM] Palmar: it's the little things that give mafia away man
[9/29/2011 3:33:20 AM] Palmar: not the big stuff
[9/29/2011 3:33:40 AM] Mig: well agree to disagree I always try to look at cases as a whole
[9/29/2011 3:33:48 AM] Mig: instead of tunneling in on 1 single aspect
[9/29/2011 3:34:02 AM] Mig: curu is shady on skype and putting 0 effort into the game
[9/29/2011 3:34:22 AM] Mig: but him giving a throwaway line about you being scummy is nothing
[9/29/2011 3:34:34 AM] Palmar: Not when it's basis for tunneling later on
[9/29/2011 3:34:49 AM] Palmar: like, technically it could be bait and switch tactic, like I've sometimes done myself
[9/29/2011 3:34:58 AM] Palmar: but it doesn't look like he's actually refining
[9/29/2011 3:35:08 AM] Palmar: or working on his case, or actively seeking another one
[9/29/2011 3:36:43 AM] Mig: it's obvious he isn't trying but that comment doesnt show anything it is just curu being useless
[9/29/2011 3:37:54 AM] Palmar: well he still has the day to post a bit
[9/29/2011 3:38:10 AM] Palmar: Why are you putting so much emphasis on it being just that one comment
[9/29/2011 3:38:16 AM] Palmar: at the time, the comment was completely harmless
[9/29/2011 3:38:26 AM] Palmar: it's what he does after it that needs to be looked at
[9/29/2011 3:38:57 AM] Palmar: when the comment gives him an excuse to just keep tunneling without putting in any effort, without submitting reads
[9/29/2011 3:39:10 AM] Palmar: like, he comes back today with another one "I still wanna lynch Palmar"
[9/29/2011 3:39:38 AM] Palmar: yeah, I'm actually just going to switch my vote to Curu.
[9/29/2011 3:41:08 AM] Mig: I don't think curu plans out things as scum where he randomly says you are scummy so he can tunnel you later
[9/29/2011 3:41:39 AM] Palmar: no I don't think that was actually his plan
[9/29/2011 3:41:40 AM] Mig: but right now I think both of you are scummy
[9/29/2011 3:41:45 AM] Palmar: I just think it played out that way
[9/29/2011 3:41:50 AM] Palmar: and he seized the opportunity
[9/29/2011 3:42:00 AM] Palmar: he knows you think I'm scummy
[9/29/2011 3:42:19 AM] Palmar: so there is no reason for him to even consider it
[9/29/2011 4:04:54 AM] Palmar: so curu is confirmed scum now
[9/29/2011 4:05:10 AM] Mig: how
[9/29/2011 4:05:18 AM] Mig: I am seeing it the other way around actually
[9/29/2011 4:05:25 AM] Palmar: meh
[9/29/2011 4:05:28 AM] Mig: if he is mafia
[9/29/2011 4:05:36 AM] Mig: why did he post saying immediately that his role pm was all black
[9/29/2011 4:05:41 AM] Mig: unless he had a sample town pm
[9/29/2011 4:05:50 AM] Palmar: mine is all black btw
[9/29/2011 4:05:52 AM] Palmar: but yeah
[9/29/2011 4:06:09 AM] Mig: well yea I cant really believe that since you are saying it now but curu claimed it right away
[9/29/2011 4:06:23 AM] Palmar: yah whatever
[9/29/2011 4:06:35 AM] Mig: lolol poor palmar
[9/29/2011 4:08:56 AM] Mig: just curious how exactly did it ever make curu confirmed mafia?
[9/29/2011 4:09:13 AM] Palmar: because he wouldn't jump something so obvious if he wasn't looking so hard at it
[9/29/2011 4:09:34 AM] Palmar: if the mafia role pm actually had a red color in it
[9/29/2011 4:09:39 AM] Palmar: I'm going to murder kurumio
[9/29/2011 4:09:40 AM] Palmar: lol
[9/29/2011 4:10:16 AM] Mig: if he posts a red one pretty much 0% chance you don't get lynched
[9/29/2011 4:10:56 AM] Mig: I am trying to consider scenarios where you and curu could both be town now but curu seems really town unless he had a copy of the townie pm from kurumi beforehand
[9/29/2011 4:11:15 AM] Mig: I can't imagine he would claim in thread mine was black if he were mafia unless he knew for sure townies also got black
[9/29/2011 4:12:32 AM] Mig: and really the fact that instead of saying that you immediately went omg curu is scum
[9/29/2011 4:12:38 AM] Mig: makes you look ridiculously bad
[9/29/2011 4:21:14 AM] Palmar: BLU Pyro
BLU PyroMmhmhmhmhm p! Phphp ahah dishshhpners hherhe!

Alignment Detective. Spychecks people. They either burn or not. Thus, Pyro is given result BLU or RED. RED Spy comes back as BLU unless framed.
[9/29/2011 4:21:35 AM] Palmar: anyway
[9/29/2011 4:21:38 AM] Palmar: I'm off
[9/29/2011 4:22:19 AM] Mig: cya
[9/29/2011 4:22:29 AM] Palmar: please tell me
[9/29/2011 4:22:42 AM] Palmar: that this is the way he formatted all the messages
[9/29/2011 4:22:43 AM] Palmar: if not
[9/29/2011 4:23:00 AM] Palmar: I'm just going to break a rule and get modkilled
[9/29/2011 4:23:07 AM] Mig: yea it is mine is a straight copy/paste from the op
[9/29/2011 4:23:14 AM] Mig: similar to that
[9/29/2011 4:23:30 AM] Palmar: well it isn't a straight copy paste
[9/29/2011 4:23:32 AM] Palmar: you scum?
[9/29/2011 4:23:45 AM] Palmar: it has BLU Pyro twice in it
[9/29/2011 4:23:47 AM] Palmar: at the top
[9/29/2011 4:23:57 AM] Mig: oh you are right
[9/29/2011 4:23:59 AM] Mig: ok mine isnt like that
[9/29/2011 4:24:06 AM] Mig: mine is literally a completely straight copy
[9/29/2011 4:24:59 AM] Palmar: yeah I'm fucked, nice. (I actually thought he had pulled all the roles, and then pasted shit because mine is worded that way, I used it in the analysis post to try to confirm my role message as correct).
[9/29/2011 4:25:10 AM] Palmar: like first he pasted role name
[9/29/2011 4:25:14 AM] Palmar: then copy pasted all
[9/29/2011 4:25:30 AM] Palmar: don't point it out if yours isn't like that
[9/29/2011 4:26:37 AM] Mig: kurumi just said pms are in the op
[9/29/2011 4:27:45 AM] Mig: oh but red pyro if formatted similar to your pms lol
[9/29/2011 4:28:25 AM] Mig: that makes you look even worse
[9/29/2011 4:28:33 AM] Palmar: what?
[9/29/2011 4:28:45 AM] Mig: RED Pyro
RED Pyro is known for hit and run tactics. He will choose his victim and attack him from behind, then run away, leaving him to the after burn damage.
[9/29/2011 4:28:59 AM] Mig: red pyro is the only one that repeats the name
[9/29/2011 4:29:27 AM] Mig: if you yourself were the red pyro
[9/29/2011 4:29:40 AM] Mig: you could very easily have thought that was how the blue pyro would be formatted
[9/29/2011 4:30:18 AM] Palmar: that doesn't even make any sensr
[9/29/2011 4:30:23 AM] Palmar: anyway, said I'm off
[9/29/2011 4:30:28 AM] Mig: k cya
[9/29/2011 1:37:35 PM] Mig: if you are actually dt
[9/29/2011 1:37:39 PM] Mig: I will literally never forgive you
[9/29/2011 1:37:53 PM] Mig: it will be on the same level as aces game if you had cost us teh victory
[9/29/2011 3:05:35 PM] Mig: haha!
[9/29/2011 3:05:38 PM] Mig: death to palmar!

Palmar put up a pretty decent effort to convince me curu was scum. And like I said curu/palmar are fucking lazy as mafia. Anyone who has played with them in games should know this. You guys honestly think they both went through this ridiculous effort to fake so many things just for a day1 bus? I mean really?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 05:46 GMT

#889

Yea I would just like to point out look at curu's mafia games in MLP, WaW2, XLIV Curu practically never busses. In fact he goes to extremes to save his teammates such as when he hard defended me repeatedly in XLIV. So if you want to use the argument that palmar busses how about the fact that Curu virtually never does?

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 06:37 GMT

#895

Lol Ken calm friend I am the one who told curu that you always bus your teammates hella hard. In RTM and in XLIV you bussed all your teammates asap lol. So I told him you were probably scum. I could certainly be wrong tho I won't claim to know 100% you are mafia.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 07:40 GMT

#897

Hey my apologies for insulting sevryn. I was out of line and acting like a dick.

But everyone should take a little time and read my logs with palmar. There is probably 500 lines of dialogue there. Unless I spent hours and hours and hours faking debate and then also bussed Palmar day1 I am virtually guaranteed to be town. Obviously you shouldn't blindly follow what I say because I could still be wrong. But at least take the time to read my thoughts because at least you know I am town and not mafia trying to mislead you.

Now look at the evidence against Curu. It is incredibly weak and awful. Most of it is pure conjecture that he formed some master plan to bus palmar day1 when literally curu has never bussed his teammates ever as mafia. At most it proves that Curu may not be 100% confirmed townie but considering everything else he is easily very very likely townie.

Look at all the evidence that he is innocent - Playing history, chat logs with palmar, me being rbd after claiming to him, etc.

Now consider this Curu was 1 of the 2 main people who killed a scum day 1! Why the fuck are you trying to kill someone who killed a scum 1 day later? Do you lynch someone who shoots a scum the very next day? He is a good player and and very trusted by some townies mafia has to kill him or he will end up catching them. If he is somehow alive day 4 or 5 then sure take a second look at him but why the fuck are you trying to kill someone who killed a scum right now? Just because you are "hoping" he bussed Palmar day1? That is unbelievably dumb we should be killing people who haven't helped the town not people who actually killed scum!

So look at the mountain of evidence that shows Curu is innocent, look at the fact that he just yesterday killed a scum and look at the fact the only person who is even close to a confirmed townie is on his side. While the people targeting him (Incog, and NC are shady).

Do not lynch Curu now it would be an unbelievably huge mistake. It is fine if you don't trust him completely and you keep him under watch but man killing someone who is very likely town and killed a scum yesterday is just so so so bad.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 08:21 GMT

#898

Right now I am very very suspicious of both NC and Incognito. You guys are both much better than this, you should know the Curu lynch is not proper play. I know for a fact you guys can not be 100% sure Curu is scum. If Curu is town he is incredibly likely to be shot by mafia. So why the fuck are you pushing him now after he lynched palmar instead of someone else? And I know NC is well aware of this look at this quote from a PM he sent me.

From: NotChezinu [ 47 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: mafia
Date: 10/1/11 02:09
I really wish you had saved your incog case till the morning, now if he is town mafia won't shoot him.

I am sure you will respond with well your case was during the night which is different. And to an extent I agree but really if Curu is town he will be killed by the mafia its just a matter of time. So why the rush to kill him now? Especially when there is no way you are even close to 100% sure?

I really find it so hard to believe that you guys think the Curu lynch is correct. I mean you say you want to kill curu for pushing mafia agendas???!? He lynched scum day1 wtf! Just what does he have to do to not push mafia agendas in your eyes?

Oh also did you guys even consider that Palmar was their pyro? If mafia chose to bus someone why the fuck did they choose their pyro?? Why not bus a goon??? A normal bus wasn't enough had to kill off their kp as well? I mean do you guys really believe mafia would bus their own kp day1?

I really cannot believe that both of you can have overlooked this many things. 1 of NC/Incognito is guaranteed scum and may have influenced the other but it is very likely they are both scum.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 08:34 GMT

#899

The more I think about it the more I am amazed at just how awful your case against Curu is. I mean really mafia bussing their own kp on day1? When in the history of mafia has that ever happened?

I cannot possibly believe that you guys are this bad as town.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 19:00 GMT

#926

Yea I am very very suspicious of both NC and Incognito. I mean they went through this huge effort to make that giant case but they don't support it at all? They don't respond to any of the points brought against it? Feels a lot like giving up to me. Although there is still 3 hours before lynch.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 21:27 GMT

#934

30 min until lynch and NC/Incognito still not around. Lynch looks pretty good. I would expect Incognito to at least come in and give us his read if he were town.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 22:16 GMT

#940

Why did incog not even show up to defend himself whatsoever? Or at least contribute with some reads before dying. Really really poor effort.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 02 2011 22:50 GMT

#945

Anyway obviously unfortunate but we move on and reconsider all possibilities.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 03 2011 08:27 GMT

#964

Ok I have had several people already role claim to me. And I think we should do a mass claim. If you doubt that I am 100% town again read these logs between me and palmar and ask yourself if they sound fake at all and if the 2 of us would really spend that many hours faking it. I will not tell anyone else what you claim to me.

+ Show Spoiler +

If for whatever reason you still have your doubts then don't claim but I believe everyone should claim even if you are vanilla, so that I can organize the blues for tonight and I can take a look at any suspicious claims.

There is a good chance I will die tonight now that a medic has died so this is the last opportunity we will have to do this.

I requested roleclaims from erandorr and forumite before. I gave them a set of options 1-9 that listed all the roles, including vanilla, (numbers randomized) since they were mute and whichever number they picked was their role claim. I will send similar pms to scamp and sinani since they have already claimed mute.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 03 2011 10:34 GMT

#967

You didn't scamp but lucidity did I believe.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 03 2011 11:20 GMT

#970

I don't remember why I thought lucidity was mute. But that's the impression I am under.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

October 03 2011 21:43 GMT

#973

I am not as sure as I was about NC being scum once Incognito flipped town. Since town was dead set on killing Incognito why did he organize and put so much effort into lynching Curu? Seems weird. But then again I don't really understand why he trusted Incognito so fully, the Curu push like I have said was just completely awful , and he has completely disappeared for the last 40 hours. So meh he could be scum still but I definitely am not as certain as I was before.

Here are my reads for everyone

People I am very sure are town

Curu
Erandorr
kenpachi

Likely town

supersoft
wbg

Unsure

Forumite
nisani
risk.nuke
sinani
Scamp

Scummy

NC
DropBear
Sevryn
Jcarl

The top 3 I am very sure of 90%+ that they are town. WBG and supersoft I am probably like 75% town on. Any of the rest of them could potentially be scum.

For today's lynch I would probably focus on NC and Jcarl. But it would be fine to pressure any of the people I have on the uncertain and lower list.