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Okay, Lucidity is scum. I liked his dreamflower analysis at first (because it was the only true analysis posted like, this entire game), but upon reading the rest of his stuff its clear that he's scum. Hes been hopping on bandwagons, throwing out soft foses, and trying to deflect attention from himself. We will start with the latter:
Deflection attention
On September 13 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 06:23 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 02:25 Lucidity wrote:
Not particularly.
I've never been in a Day 0 before. Discussing ponies seems to be the best course of action. Just checking, you were in TL Mafia XLIII and Arkham Asylum, and played Vanilla Townie in both? I was a goon in AA. A Vet in Kurumi's TF2 themed mafia and VT in XLIII. 2 of those games were PM games and I was pretty inactive in XLIII, so my meta on TL is pretty useless.This is a small game so there shouldn't be too many posts. However little there may be to read, a lurker or two is bound to pop up. What are your thoughts on how to deal with them?
Translation: "My meta on TL is pretty useless, don't even try to understand me or my motives. I'm unreadable. Yeah baby. Total badass."
But just so that nobody forgets this important fact (ie, if he seems scummy its just because you don't know his meta, so be unsure about everything) he posts it again.
On September 13 2011 22:08 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 21:51 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:
I was a goon in AA. A Vet in Kurumi's TF2 themed mafia and VT in XLIII. 2 of those games were PM games and I was pretty inactive in XLIII, so my meta on TL is pretty useless. AA, wasn´t the Goons there part of Town? How´s your Veteran Metagame? With everyone accusing me of avoiding questions, I think I´d like some old ones of my own answered. Lucidity, what role did you have in Arkham Asylum? Arkham Staff, basically a normal Goon? Is there something in your Veteran Metagame that makes those games useless for metagame purposes? I played as a Goon and a Vet in PM games, so a lot of discussion is not in the thread at all. I've played 1 game as Green, 1 as Blue and 1 as Red. I don't think I have any kind of reliable meta on here.
Soft FoSes
Then he throws this weird, semi-FOS on dreamflower but doesn't commit to a vote or even any sort of honest pressure on her, asking her to explain herself. You'll note that he didn't have any trouble throwing a vote on forumite, or any of the people after his dreamflower analysis.
On September 14 2011 19:55 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 00:18 dreamflower wrote:
At the moment, I am more in favor of lynching an inactive, because town lurkers still don't help the town if they're not sharing their thoughts or giving us information and Mafia lurkers are, well, Mafia. I am currently unconvinced by the cases so far, as they tend to be based on post-by-post analyses of posts made on Day 1, when most of us were unsure of what we should be discussing or trying to accomplish. Generally, I tend to be skeptical of post-by-post analysis, as they often are just nitpicking at small contradictions or confusing phrases in posts that perhaps the poster just didn't think through clearly and they seem to assume that Mafia will give themselves away a little in every post, which they usually don't. Right now, the cases made against Forumite and Greymist strike me as being more like townies accusing townies, so I'm hesitant to vote for a lynch based on those cases.
I did think it was a little odd that Forumite asked for a DT check on Jackal. But it seems like Jackal is a pretty well-known player, so I suppose it makes sense that he is subject to the scrutiny that well-known players tend to receive, like Ver or Ace. Jackal himself also seems quieter than I expected, though perhaps that is only because it is so early in the game.
So, I would much prefer lynching a lurker right now. The lurkers that stand out most to me are Sevryn and DroneAllDay. Of these two, the latter has specifically stated that he is very new and will be lurking a lot, which on one hand could be an honest statement of confusion but on the other hand could be a Mafia trying to look like a clueless newbie. The former, Sevryn, has made only a few game-related, non-pony-discussing posts, most regarding the Day post and how it'll give us more to talk about. Yet, he himself hasn't said anything substantial after the Day post except "Oh yay Day post. So, what are the Elements of Harmony?" I would very much like to hear from these two players sometime soon. I also wouldn't mind hearing about everyone's thoughts regarding the merits and flaws of lynching inactives versus lynching someone in particular. Essentially this post served two purposes: - Introducing the idea of really attempting to lynch a lurker today. Getting a feel for our willingness to follow such a strategy with the last sentence.
- Discrediting the cases brought forward so far.
Lynching lurkers should be a last resort. Going after lurkers (and by lurkers she actually means INACTIVES) allows scum to not offer any opinions and simply sheep onto an easy vote. This is not an ideal situation to say the least. She discredits the cases against Forumite and Greymist, by simply saying that she doesn't like post by post analysis and that she thinks townies are accusing townies. Could you explain why you think townies are accusing townies dreamflower? You offer no reason to doubt the case based on actual discussion points. Simply "oh I'm unconvinced". Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 00:25 dreamflower wrote:
Bah. And now that I posted, Sevryn has posted and even voted for Forumite. -_- I'm still a little cautious about the case on Forumite, as people seem to be basing it mostly on that one post and making him defend his ideas. I agree that his defense has also been inept, but I don't think it necessarily means he is Mafia.
For now, I guess I will just vote for DroneAllDay. And learn to refresh the page a lot better while I'm posting.
##vote DroneAllDay Note the displeasure when she sees that someone else voted Forumite. So instead of waiting for other's opinions on the LaL strategy she proposed, she goes ahead with it to try and divert attention away from real scum hunting by voting for DroneAllDay. Look at the reasoning in that post. She is visibly upset with another vote on Forumite.
She thinks his defense is inept.
But somehow he does not deserve any attention.
Instead she "guesses" she'll vote for DroneAllDay. Point? She's defending Forumite with no real reasoning. She puts her vote on an inactive, not a lurker. Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 02:23 dreamflower wrote:On September 14 2011 00:32 Jackal58 wrote:
Dreamflower lynching inactives is counter productive. Inactives are most likely going to be mod killed. Lurkers on the other hand are a different animal. There is a difference between the two. When you said inactives I'm pretty sure you were still referring to lurkers. Ah, true. Yes, I was referring to lurkers when I said inactives. My apologies. A lot of my thinking still dates back to the olden days before inactivity modkills or the Ban List, so please excuse me if I phrase things oddly like that. I also agree about OriginalName, whom I'm a little annoyed about not noticing myself. I also noticed that DroneAllDay's statement of Mafia newness came very soon after he signed up and long before roles were sent out, so that pretty much rules out his being a Mafia trying to masquerade as a newbie. My mistake there. OriginalName's one contribution to the thread after the Day post has been to call Forumite's post "a huge pile of fluff," but after that he hasn't said anything else at all. That does look more like lurking than outright inactivity.To add my own opinion on the merits of lynching lurkers, I think it is a good idea early on, when we don't have much information to work with. I agree that lynching lurkers doesn't yield much information afterward, but I don't think going after "real" targets always does either. The people who argue for a townie to be lynched or vote for their lynch are not necessarily Mafia themselves. So, I don't think either approach can give us much in the way of useful information. The part highlighted in red essentially explains why ON is where her vote should be. DroneAllDay is an inactive, which she doesn't want to go for. She wants lurkers, and ON is one. Yet her vote stays on DroneAllDay. She dedicates an entire paragraph to explaining why DAD is a bad vote, and then doesn't change it. Then she goes on to try and push the LaL objective. We shouldn't be lynching for information. DEFINITELY not on Day 1. We should be hunting scum. Lynching lurkers (inactives) is not scum hunting. It doesn't give us any information, which you think is important? Yet you still advocate lynching lurkers. Going after "real" targets actually DOES offer us information ito voting patterns, defenses e t c . Not that, that is our first priority, but it blows your LaL policy out of the water. tl;dr Defends Forumite and greymist with no reasoning. Pushes anti-town objective of lynching inactives instead of scum hunting. (Note that she really means inactives when she says lurkers, even though she indicated otherwise. Her posts make that clear enough.)
But thats not the only soft FOS he throws out. Here's some snide remark about curu, undermining towns confidence in him:
On September 14 2011 20:03 Lucidity wrote:
I'll delve into that Curu/sinani/nisani shitstorm later.
Curu has scarred me with his brilliant Mafia play in XLIII(IV)? No matter how town he looks I'm always going to be doubting him now -_-
Bandwagoning
It begins with forumite:
On September 13 2011 20:29 Lucidity wrote:
Do you think you have saved Jackal from a lynch? He has done nothing scummy so far and was certainly nowhere close to being lynched. Is that some scum-guilt overreaction I'm seeing?
There are many scenarios where we can't trust a DT check. We don't know their sanity, we don't know if there is a framer or millers, there could be fake claims. Even if you didn't consider a framer, the plan didn't make sense and my main point is that you contradicted yourself w.r.t. the use of Blue roles. But it doesn't seem as if you're going to address that.
Vote: Forumite
Then has that post on dreamflower above, but he doesn't commit. Instead, he hops on four (five?) wagons at once, but commits to sinani. What this does is throw suspicion on several people, but commits to the easiest lynch.
On September 15 2011 08:01 Lucidity wrote:
Man. Why is everyone scummy. chaos13/sinani/Forumite/tnkted... I can't tell if Curu tried to cause chaos or if he's just being really aggressive... Policy lynching someone for actions in another game isn't something I think a good player would do. Curu hasn't advocated it in other games with Kenpachi/Kurumi as far as I'm aware, and he basically views them as unreadable too.
Of these I think sinani is our best bet... Both in terms of getting the required numbers and in terms of likely scum. The reactions surrounding Curu's attack on him are quite suspect.
##Unvote
##Vote sinani
On September 15 2011 08:40 Lucidity wrote:
Can everypony stop with the name calling? There's no need to be rude.
I think tnkted is a great choice, but is his lynch a realistic possibility? I won't be here for the lynch so I feel safer leaving my vote on sinani.
WBG: In what world could sinani and Curu both be scum?
TLDR: Lucidity is scum. He's trying to blend in by throwing out soft FOSes and hopping on wagons. Vigs should hit him tonight, and we should vote him tomorrow.
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On September 16 2011 03:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm on my phone and just reading, don't have much time. I'll be back in an hour or two when I have computer access to clarify as much as I can.
Dreamflower, my case on tnkted yesterday was basically three things:
He's had a few situations in which he's been wishy washy. He backed off Greymist despite saying his defense was unsatisfactory.
He sheeped Lucidity's opinion and randomly voted you. He didn't seem to contribute anything.
I didn't sheep anyones opinion. Stop making blanket statements without any evidence. I also didn't randomly vote anyone, I posted my reasons for doing so.
Lastly, he has an air of wanting to blend in to me. I feel like his posts don't actually contribute anything, there is a feeling of feigned contribution.
This isn't analysis or logical at all. In fact, it is exactly what you accused me of: "Trying to blend in without contributing anything". "He feels scummy" is a terrible reason in forum mafia when somebody's life is on the line. Theres literally no way for me to respond to this because I can't change how you feel. Luckily, you can't change how anyone else feels either. If you think I'm scum, go find evidence for it. All I can say to that is good luck.
This case on Lucidity is really weak. Lucidity is the same person he said yesterday had great logic on Dreamflower; tnkted even sheeped Lucidity's vote yesterday.
Did you even read my post? I addressed this.
You don't make any sense, silly pony.
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I'm not scum. Jackal is town if I get vigged, thanks to his post above here.
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Just tell them jackal, the info is pro-town and if you're killed it confirms my alignment anyway which mafia does not want. Vice versa if you're killed.
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On September 17 2011 06:41 Lucidity wrote:
If you are town you've basically let scum know that you've got some special powerz. There's no point in trying to hide that now, is there?
I'm going to let jackal answer this. I only know one piece of the puzzle more than you guys do and I don't know how jackal wants to release the info.
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If you understand whats going on, please don't reveal so in thread. You'll just get yourself killed. I'm sorry I can't say more, but any more information we could post would reveal info to scum.
If you know what we're talking about, you know what we're talking about. We don't know about you, which is bad, but neither does scum, which is good; if you can communicate with us, talk to jackal. Otherwise, go ahead and throw your chips at us; me and jackal were the lucky two in that we could PM each other. If you don't know what we're talking about, it's probably not important to you. Rely on the townies that do to pull their shit together.
By the way, we got incredibly lucky that jackal is town. @Jackie: I think you can give them a little more info tbh (IE my side of the story) but it's up to you. Mafia already knows what's going on.
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On September 17 2011 20:18 Lucidity wrote:
Why are you not pushing my lynch tnkted?
What are you asking here? Are you asking why im not pushing for your lynch anymore, or why I'm not pushing for your lynch target?
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My reads real quick.
Players
1.) dreamflower
2.) Sevryn
3.) Lucidity - Third party? Something is off about his play
4.) Forumite
5.) GreYMisT
6.) DroneAllDay
7.) Jackal58
8.) Nisani201
9.) Curu
10.) chaos13
11.) sinani206
12.) tnkted
13.) wherebugsgo
This is all gut, and if it differs from stuff I posted previously thats because my attention span is the length of this senta
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I think the fact that WBG jumped on it so quickly isn't a good sign, but I have to read the filter before I commit to anything. I'll go do that now
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On September 18 2011 01:47 Lucidity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 23:52 Jackal58 wrote:On September 17 2011 19:54 Lucidity wrote:On September 17 2011 14:13 Jackal58 wrote:On September 17 2011 11:25 wherebugsgo wrote:
yeah, that's the last bit. They've "claimed" but it's not clear at all. If you're going to claim as town (and draw mafia attention) you might as well claim in full. Only they and the mafia right now know their alignment, and that's not really helping the rest of us. Scum really hate when two townies know they are both townies don't you? Scum really hate when townies have knowledge that is denied to scum don't you? PM abilities in a non PM game are great. As I said before if you guys feel compelled to lynch me to verify my alignment I'm ok with that. But keep your dick beaters off of Twinkles. Sorry Curu. I didn't realize you were running LOTR when I posted that. My vote is going on Bugs. If you're town you can trust me or lynch me. But you damn sure aren't getting all the details. ##VOTE: wherebugsgo Could you explain why you voted wherebugsgo please? Simple. I stated that you guys were more than welcome to lynch me to verify my alignment. Bugs isn't happy with that answer. He needs the details of what went on between myself and tnkted. I will not disclose that info. He hates that idea. The sole purpose of my original post was to save a townie from lynch. He hates that idea. A tnkted lynch would have been very easy today. That's why. When I was first told I could PM tnkted I was also suspicious of him. However he did something that I cannot attribute to scum. Ever. If he is actually scum his own team needs to kill him because he fucked them hard. I believe it was in XXXLVI where I made a similar post to save LSBs derpy ass from lynch. It worked and town won. The only difference here is when I first called Twinkles town I had no other alternative lynch candidate like I did in that game. Oh and I can no longer PM tnkted. That window closed when tnkted did what he did. So your plan to save a townie is to ... sacrifice yourself ... a townie ... ?
I think that hes saying that you can lynch either one of us to confirm the alignment of the other. He doesn't offer me up because that would be incredibly scummy on his part; his own lynch is the only one he can honorably offer.
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Actually, jackal did reveal both of our roles. He's pinkie pie and i'm Zecora. Go read the link he posted to the pony wiki.
and @ lucidity: I still don't think you're green, but I'm considering the possibility that you're blue, if you really want to force me to reveal this in thread. You aren't a regular townie. I think you could be some sort of third party. Either way, your posts come across as someone who does not want to get lynched and who takes very calculated risks which isn't really a townie characteristic.
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*facepalm*
WBG is almost certainly town at this point. You should either pass that shit along or keep it, but don't tell anyone what you do. It doesn't look like we have any vigs or I'd be dead, and mafia only has one kill.
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Er..................................................................
lol
## vote Forumite
I got my element after n1, not d1. You were a full 2 IRL days early. Which means everyone else did as well, which means you're gambitting.
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I got mine n1. So did jackal, I'm pretty sure.
I could have been given the piece n1 instead, but this was when everyone thought I was scummy. Why would anyone give it to me when I was the #1 scum suspect?
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Okay, you guys aren't following.
On September 18 2011 06:15 Forumite wrote:Jackal isn´t in the PM-circle anymore, it closed once they combined their element. We can openly talk about combining in this thread, because once it´s combined, we can confirm eachother, then move it around to avoid loosing it to a nightkill. Don´t fear scum reading this yet, just tell me if you believe my early breadcrumbs. If you do, please send me your part, if not, then we have to solve this some other way, before we loose a piece to a nightkill. My early breadcrumbs: + Show Spoiler +On September 13 2011 18:03 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 12:20 GreYMisT wrote:
The only thing I can see in the post is that the phrase "the key word being 'seemed'" seems out of place, but that may be stretching things waaaaay too far. There doesnt seem to be anything about the setup other than what you mentioned sevryn. other than the elements of harmony possibly being a mechanic, the phrase "nightmare moon has returned" might indicate a third party of some kind? Nightmare Moon is more likely the leader of the Scum, represented in flavor or by a player, rather than a third party. The Daypost includes the usual death of someone, loads of flavor, and the three lines of things happening. The elements of harmony are the only thing that stand out there. Honesty and all that, going to the Ever Free Forest to find some rocks is only half of our problems, the real problem is finding scum, and it´s been quiet since the pressure on me. The real day just started, this is not the time to get complacent. On September 17 2011 08:26 Forumite wrote:
This is not the best start we could have given ourselves. I honestly thought we had a good chance on this lynch, all the elements seemed to fall into place, acting scummy, odd defenders, reluctant votes, obviously we were only half right, looked scummy, wasn´t scum. We just have to piece together what we have. There should be a lot of interest about the day and voting, but I doubt the nightkill will shine much light on scum, scum want us to WIFOM. Open actions are what we have to work with, kind of odd. Hmmm, too fluffy, whatever.
Jackal, why Curu?
Forumite says that he crumbed his item day 1. Problem is, nobody else (me, WBG, nor jackal) got our items until n1. This means that either Forumite got ONE HALF of the piece of honesty a day earlier than everyone else (which is ridiculous) or he's lying to get a piece of the puzzle for the scumteam. He's never had an item. I'm guessing that the element of honesty hasn't been split at all; just because ours was doesn't mean honesty is. WBG, if your item says it was split in half it probably was. Otherwise, it wasn't.
BTW I'm not basing my proclaimations of towniness on the fact that they have items, I'm basing it on other stuff. WBG is probtown because he crumbed his shit when he knew what was happening and because he's been acting like a townie who can't communicate with people he needs to. He's not confirmed to the town at large, but he is to me.
WBG: DO NOT GIVE THE ITEM TO FORUMITE.
Today we lynch Forumite, the scum I caught red-handed. Tonight we shuffle the items around so that scum doesn't know who to hit, and we'll deal with tomorrow when we get there. Sound good to everyone?
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On September 18 2011 07:01 Curu wrote:
Do you guys really think GM would would confirm a third of the players in the game as Town by giving them items? Confirming people as Town or scum based on whether or not they have an item is stupid.
tnkted why did you think you were going to die N1? From what I saw you were the second leading wagon at the end of day 1, what made you think scum would shoot you?
er, because i was the second leading wagon? Mafia games usually have vigs, and all the people I thought were vigs thought I was scum. I was certain that I was going to be drawing a hit. The fact that I wasn't probably means that there are no vigs in this game.
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Just so we're clear on this: Forumite are you claiming that you got your item d1?
Maybe you should post some information on the item that only WBG would know, and he can confirm or deny. Maybe post all of the capital letters from the item PM.
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Lol dude. You didn't get your piece after the d1 post at all. There's no way a mechanic like this would get sent out seperately, day by day. I doubt WBG's piece is separated at all, or he'd have a PM circle like me and jackal did.
And your PMs probably are identical. I haven't checked with jackal, but I'm pretty sure ours was. If not, I'll post all the caps from my PM and he can read and tell me if his was the same (with the J in mine obviously being a T in his).
Either way, you shouldn't be afraid to post all the capital letters from the post. Or maybe if you think THATS too revealing, post every 7th character (not including spaces). If parts of it line up, then WBG will say so and we'll know that you have the piece.
YOU should be trying to find a way to make this work, as its the only way to confirm you town when right now you've been caught lying to town. Maybe think about that instead of throwing dust in the air?
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Yes, its possible for him to get the role late, but it isn't possible for you to have gotten your role early. I should say, a DAY early.
When I say I recieved my role n1, I mean that the date and time on my PM are on the 15th. Your 'crumbs' are on the 13th. It makes zero sense for the items to be handed out
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Okay forumite, you've satisfied me. Either you and WBG are in cahoots (unlikely) or I'm wrong. I'll unvote you.
I haven't recieved anything itemwise yet. I'd still be happy to lynch lucidity. BTW I'm going to combine this shit, use it if its an item, and then send it away somewhere to someone I believe is town so that it doesn't get RNG'd when/if I die.
## Unvote
## Vote: Lucidity
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EPT
