EPTSome Mafia Game
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On September 06 2011 11:34 bumatlarge wrote: I'll /in then! Like Ace is gonna let you play, you scrub! Is this a no-flip game btw? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + ... that jackal is scum | ||
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On September 07 2011 09:12 Curu wrote: Hi where is everyone? ##Vote Palmar Very suspicious vote. Keep an eye on this guy. | ||
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On September 07 2011 09:33 chaos13 wrote: How about you scummy bastards calm down and wait for day to start. FOS for discouraging discussion | ||
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hihi, you read my profile? Dutch 4lyf | ||
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On September 07 2011 10:14 wherebugsgo wrote: DUDE I love Dutch. I played Dutch a lot. Although for my first 4-6 months in vanilla I was really good at Russians (back when Germans+Spanish dominated everything) For serious AoE3 hipster cred, you have to remember the days that French were unstoppable (20% more effective workers lololol) | ||
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On September 07 2011 11:29 wherebugsgo wrote: wat I started AoE3 5 months after it was released and I don't remember this Yeah it was the first couple months after release, a ludicrous imbalance that really shouldn't have made it to release. | ||
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On September 07 2011 11:40 bumatlarge wrote: Let's talk about irrelevant things in ace's game! This set-up is weird is completely closed so I'm gonna throw it out there that I think everyone has some sort of ability. Given that we have 4/16 mafia, I imagine that you're probably right. | ||
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On September 07 2011 13:15 JeeJee wrote: Oh boy let's rolefish some more. ##vote:ggq Hm, if you think that's rolefishing, why vote for me and not bum, who brought it up first? | ||
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On September 08 2011 01:21 xtfftc wrote: Because JeeJee is covering for his mafia teammate Bum, just like Sinani. The last one is Curu.. His willingness to jump on the bandwagon of people voting for people who have voted for someone else revealed him. If you are being serious, please explain your reasoning more in-depth. What makes you think bum is mafia? If JeeJee and bum are mafia, why would JeeJee draw attention to bum like that? Why would Curu bandwagon so blatantly? If you are not being serious, please start. | ||
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I think it's pretty clear that when someone does something, 'why?' is a far more relevant question than 'why not?' "why?" has one clear, defined answer that helps to clarify your action. "why not?" has infinite hypothetical answers that just obscure it further. So cut the crap. Why? | ||
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On September 08 2011 06:27 bumatlarge wrote: Here you transformed "idle speculation" into "rolefishing". Bum: I think everyone has a role GGQ: 4 mafia; I agree JeeJee: rolefishing ? But then GGQ, instead of pointing this out, points a finger at me for something he initially agreed with. Congratulations! You found an "Inconsistency"! ##vote:ggq I'm going to go over all this again, just so it's clear to everyone in this game. 1) bumatlarge speculates before the game starts that everyone has an ability, providing no reasoning 2) I agree and provide some reasoning. I still stand by this post and don't think that it's scummy 3) JeeJee accuses me (or both me and bum? he isnt clear) of rolefishing and votes for me. 4) I did not address his accusation of rolefishing. I think it's silly, because I think it's clear that I wasn't rolefishing and I'm unconcerned by this vote. 5) I ask JeeJee why he chose to vote and accuse me instead of bum, since that seems completely arbitrary to me. I want to know his reasoning; I want him to explain himself so that the town can better judge both me and him. I want things clearly spelled out in the thread. 6) JeeJee responds with "Why not?" I've already explained why this is a terrible answer. It doesn't help with clarifying anything, and it only leads to more confusion and obfuscation, which is distinctly anti-town. 7) JeeJee tells me to "calm down". Nothing in my post indicates that I'm not calm. He is trying to make it seem like I'm getting defensive/emotional when I don't believe that my post indicates anything like that; it's just cold reasoning. 8) JeeJee then says "It's very simple. etc" as though he's responding to my question of "Why?" He then gives his explanation that townies point out flaws in accusations while scum try to shift blame. a) First of all, this explanation has some truth but it's improperly applied. I was not trying to shift blame. I was not trying to FOS or divert suspicion to bumatlarge. In fact, I was doing exactly what he says townies do; I pointed out that the accusation was flawed because it was arbitrary and poorly explained (even though I gave him an opportunity to explain it). b) Secondly, this is not an answer to my question of "why?" His explanation is basically that my question of "why" is the answer to itself; the answer to "why did you vote for me instead of bum" is because I asked that question. Clearly this is circular reasoning. JeeJee, you still haven't answered why you voted/accused me instead of bum. 9) then bum jumps on the bandwagon against me based on the incorrect assumption that I was pointing fingers at him. Curious how bum and JeeJee are interacting here... To sum up, JeeJee and bum have been misinterpreting and misrepresenting me. This is something that is done either by scum trying to lead a mislynch or by townies who fail at reading comprehension. Which one are you guys? | ||
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On September 08 2011 07:18 bumatlarge wrote: I'm not going to waste energy explaining why votes in the first 2 minutes aren't helpful, you can achieve the same amount of pressure just talking about someone. GGQ could have pointed out that what he was doing was not rolefishing. Instead he gave an excuse about how he shouldn't be the focus. He had no intention of standing behind what he said if it brought focus on him, and in that JeeJee is completely justified in voting for him. And I've already stated that I disagree with JeeJee voting ggq early, because it was a vote based on nothing, an early vote with no reasoning behind it, which we shouldn't be doing. Now it's a solid vote and I will join him. Nothing was twisted in GGQ's post. He could have stood behind what he said, but now he's making it perfect obvious that there will be legitimate reasons for voting him. At what point did you think I was backing off of what I said? Did you think that from reading my post? Or from reading JeeJee's post? | ||
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On September 08 2011 02:59 iGrok wrote: I consider that a valid reason to vote. With no setup knowledge other than my own role, I'm a little on edge anyways. iGrok, your second post here exhibits the same behavior that sandroba called you out for in your first post. sandroba points out that you are going out of your way to justify yourself in your first post. You are doing the same thing here again, by saying that you are "on edge" and explaining why. Why are you trying to justify yourself so much? Are you nervous? | ||
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On September 08 2011 09:10 chaos13 wrote: This is a big heaping dose of OMGUS. Your entire argument is based on the fact that JeeJee has accused you and apparently misunderstood some of your behavior. You end it with a noncommittal statement and don't even bother voting for someone you just accused of being scum. Oh wait, you accused bum as well by association. You're looking like a good first lynch right about now. >>calls my post OMGUS >>points out that I end noncommittal and don't vote for JeeJee >>?!?!?! When did I accuse him of being scum? I gave him two options, and frankly I think it's more likely that JeeJee is misguided towny than mafia atm. My post wasn't an accusation, but an outline of misunderstandings, logic fails, and suspicious behavior. You'll notice that he's not the only one I've responded to. I'll point out problematic posts when I see them, whether the poster has voted for me or not. Call it OMGUS if you want. Also, you painted it as suspicious that I didn't vote for JeeJee after "accusing" him. And then you called me scum, even encouraged a lynch on me, then didn't vote for me. Wuddup wit dat? If this is the kind of logic and analysis we are going to have all game, then gg we lose. | ||
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On September 08 2011 09:04 xtfftc wrote: I'm not suspicious of Bumatlarge anymore. He knows he said nothing wrong, pointed it out and closed the case against him. And I doubt it that GGQ is crumbling under the "pressure" applied to him; it's looks much more like flexing muscles to me. He's putting himself out there quite a lot without any actual pressure on him. JeeJee though. His analysis of the 'cut the crap' bit. GGQ is so obviously trying to look like a "no screwing around" type of player and talking like this is part of his tough image. Yet JeeJee is trying to twist this into being emotional and crumbling under pressure. Fake, pompous - yes. But GGQ was acting like this before the accusation. He used the same tone to reply to me when he didn't have to defend himself because I accused JeeJee and Bumatlarge. I find it suspicious that a good player such as JeeJee doesn't notice such things, especially when there was less than one page to analyse. If by that you mean that I'm not showing any signs of protecting mafia as a medic this game, then yes, my behaviour is 100% different. I am wiser now, having played one game is better than having played no games at all.  On a serious note, the problem with your argument is that I got into trouble in XLIV precisely because of the very same behaviour: accusing four players in no time. The only thing you can read in this is that I'm a bad player but this is something we all know. Anyway, it is easy to be active if you're mafia at this point, which means that being quiet becomes just as easy. The sooner the arbitrary one-line accusations transition into something better structured, the better - and if it takes a cocky quasi-trollish post that annoys some townies, well, it's worth it anyway. Calling my posting 'fake' is a pretty serious accusation, bro. What makes you think I'm being fake? Examples and explanation, please. | ||
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On September 08 2011 07:48 JeeJee wrote: Yeah, no. First, you're trying to shift blame yet again, except this time it's on me. Cute, but it ain't gonna fly. Second, you are getting emotional and defensive, hence the 'calm down'. I don't think calm people say 'cut the crap' -- it's people who get frustrated. And I think I know why you're frustrated. Second, no, your answer did not point out the flaw in my vote. Compare these two responses, both to the same accusation: Hm, if you think that's rolefishing, why vote for me and not bum, who brought it up first? I'm not role fishing, im simply stating that I think everyone has an ability. No one needs to counter claim that, but I half my fun in mafia is speculation. Don't think anyone should be voting anyone yet, we need 9 for a lynch, so silly accusations aren't gonna cut it 5 minutes into the game. Which one of these is shifting the blame and which one of these is pointing out the problem with the accusation? Third, if you haven't figured it out, my vote on you obviously wasn't based on anything as it was the beginning of the game. Hence the 'why not'. As per your reaction though, I'm quite happy to have it remain where it is. Neither of those is shifting the blame. My post wasn't shifting blame because there's no blame to shift. You accused me of something I wasn't doing. Where's the blame? I asked why me instead of bum because you clearly chose for a reason and I wanted to know what your logic was. You still haven't answered that btw. | ||
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On September 08 2011 10:55 chaos13 wrote: That entire post is an attack on JeeJee, and none of it looks like you're calling him a bad townie. Not an accusation, but an outline of suspicious behavior? That's exactly what an accusation is. It wouldn't have been suspicious if it felt as if you were simply looking for more information, but it had the feel of an attack to it. None of what I said is calling you scum. Calling you suspicious? Hell yeah. Did I encourage anyone else to vote for you? No. They can make that decision themselves. There's no need for me to place my vote yet until we generate some more discussion. I'm simply warning you that if your play continues this way, I will vote for you before the day is over. Good positive attitude at the end there, I like that. If you don't think that what's going on is good, encourage something better. You can whine about it all you want, but if you don't do something to fix it you're just becoming part of the problem. Incorrect, an accusation is when you accuse someone of being scum, which I never did. I'll call out suspicious behavior from many players in a game, but I'll only accuse a few of being scum. So no, pointing out suspicious behavior from someone is not an accusation. If scum were the only ones who exhibited suspicious behavior, mafia would be a much easier game. You said I was looking like a good lynch. Not a good "vote", a good "lynch". You can't lynch by yourself, so yeah you were encouraging others to vote for me. And yeah, I am doing something about it by pointing out fail logic in the hopes that people will think things through a little longer. | ||
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On September 08 2011 12:12 JeeJee wrote: This game is off to a wonderful day. Bada-bapaba. I'm lovin' it. In some ways yeah, but too many people are keeping quiet. Don't let us hog the spotlight, guys! | ||
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Aside from them, I really want to hear more from TheAwesomeAll and sinani. Both of them got their post/vote requirement out of the way asap and haven't said anything since. Penny for your thoughts, guys. | ||
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On September 09 2011 05:36 Curu wrote: Let's get this thread going. If not TAA I would be down for GGQ. Care to explain why? | ||
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On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote: Didn't even know TAA was playing. I think iGrok is a bad lynch, GGQ is by far the better alternative. Again, can we get explanations for statements like this, please? I'm still baffled about why people think I'm scummy. Is this all because JeeJee misunderstood my post? | ||
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##vote iGrok TheAwesomeAll is a fine lynch, too. | ||
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These are the players that should be on the block for today. | ||
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fuck your attitude sandroba, I miss you, buddy! what's up? talk to us. | ||
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and yeah jackal's been quiet, it's kind of his style to do nothing for the first couple days, but he usually at least threatens people here and there. | ||
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sandroba's inactivity is worrisome, yeah, but not enough to lynch for imo. His lack of contribution stands against him, but I'd prefer to wait and see if he turns it around or continues being scummy. Mig has given me bad vibes and I'll be taking a closer look at him for a future lynch, since it's probably too late to switch gears onto him at the moment. What really has my noodle baking atm is the Zona/bumatlarge situation. It seems to me that Zona's claim should be more polarizing than it has been. Logically, there are only two possibilities; Zona is telling the truth, or he is lying. a) If Zona is telling the truth, we should be aware that roleblock+kill on a single target is quite unusual, afaik. Especially on night 1, that means that the mafia must have gotten a very strong read on him during day 1 to use both a rb AND a kill on the same target when he might have ended up flipping green. And a very specific read as well. There's no reason to rb+kill a dt. Either one is enough to shut down his ability. There's very little reason to rb+kill a doctor, since they can't protect themselves. If they thought Zona was a doctor, the only reason to rb him is if they thought he would protect the other person they shot. Very small chance of that. The only role that is reasonable to rb+shoot is the vigilante. It seems unlikely to me that the mafia would get such a strong read on Zona and use such measures to shut him down and eliminate him unless they did, in fact, see his breadcrumb about bumatlarge and he is, in fact, mafia. So if Zona is telling the truth, then bumatlarge is imo 99% mafia b) If Zona is lying, then Zona is mafia. There's no reason to lie that blatantly as town So either way, someone is mafia. Do I believe Zona? Well, honestly, it just seems unlikely that Zona would pull this kind of powerplay at this point in the game as mafia. What would he gain? A mislynch? Is he trying to save sinani/sandroba? Or just eliminate bumatlarge? Given the circumstances, I'm included to think that Zona is telling the truth. I also find it odd that bumatlarge seems to think that Zona is telling the truth, doesn't even try to argue that he's lying or that it's unlikely that Zona would just happen to get a medic last night, but he doesnt seem to acknowledge how suspicious it makes him if Zona is telling the truth. But I have to go, be back tonight. bum is probably mafia in my eyes. | ||
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cool story, bro ##unvote ##vote bumatlarge | ||
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##vote sinani consolidating votes. I don't see anyone but sinani or sandroba getting enough votes and I'd rather see sinani go | ||
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On September 12 2011 10:39 chaos13 wrote: How about we consolidate votes to WBG? Since he's mafia and all. I think it's clear that you aren't going to get 7 votes on him before the deadline. Same with many of the other candidates being suggested. given sinani's determination to be useless, it's far better to lynch him than to lynch no one. let's go | ||
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Hopefully the night post isn't six hours late again TT | ||
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Why so defensive about Palmar? | ||
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On September 13 2011 21:49 Jackal58 wrote: The way I see it. sandroba Jackal58 Palmar bumatlarge BayonnetAnderson GGQ Zona chaos13 xtfftc Mig I'd be ok with any of those marked red as a lynch. Of the others I'm leaning towards Zona as town. This is influenced by WBG flipping town. Of Bum, bayonnet, and Chaos13 I really have no clue atm. I suggest we all weigh in on Sandroba first. Yea or nay on his lynch today? You have Palmar in blue, suggesting you believe his claim, so do you think WBG was a miller or framed? From my perspective, what makes the most sense is that both Zona's and Palmar's claims are true and that Palmar is insane. This would mean that his inno on bumatlarge is actually a guilty, which would align with Zona's post yesterday about being shot because he breadcrumbed his shot on bumatlarge. In this case, the scum team is looking to me like bumatlarge, Mig, chaos13? and one more. Alternatively, Palmar's claim is fake and designed specifically to exploit the suspicion on bum to get him lynched. I think that's unlikely, though, why would Palmar bother with the insane part? My favourite lynch target atm is bumatlarge. | ||
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Right now I'm leaning towards believing bumatlarge, as his claim is more consistent with his behavior (blueslip at the beginning of the game, subtly warning zona not to visit him; all this could be faked of course but that would take a lot of planning), imo, than palmar's or jackal's. Only thing is that paranoid gun owner doesn't seem like a role that Ace would use as it seems a little too luck-based. But that's just me speculating, it doesn't outweigh the player's behavior in game. | ||
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On September 14 2011 11:05 Jackal58 wrote: In a game this size with 2 cops it makes perfect sense to have a pgo. On the scum team. Except that no matter what team bumatlarge is on, if he's a pgo, palmar's lying because if he checked bum he'd be dead. | ||
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Also, the way that Palmar's claim came out just rubs me the wrong way. First he claimed "alignment cop" rather than just "cop". No other type of cop had been claimed or mentioned in the game so far, so why specify "alignment cop". Just "cop" would imply that just fine, especially if you started outing your guilty and inno results, it would be pretty clear. Now this could all be just a coincidence, but shortly after Jackal claims "parity cop". People have noted throughout the thread that Palmar and Jackal seem connected, and if they are both scum who planned out claims, it would make sense for Palmar to specify "alignment cop". Speculation, of course, but it fits in my mind. Secondly, the way he doesn't push his own guilty on bumatlarge. Instead he offers three possibilities despite the unlikeliness of them and just waits for other people... perhaps waiting for jackal's claim? ##vote Palmar | ||
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On September 15 2011 12:37 sandroba wrote: And Bum actually got lynched. That means mafia bought someone else's vote, not yours. Look at the lynch results. There's an Anonymous vote on bumatlarge. The mafia were unable to convince two townies to vote for bum so they needed to add an Anonymous vote to bring it to 6. If the mafia has the ability to add an Anonymous vote, it seems incredibly inbalanced that they can also buy a player's vote. Plus, in the past, when a vote is bought it seems to me that it just shows up in the vote count... the player whose vote is bought isn't then forced to actually post a vote for the wrong person... This all smells very very fishy to me. So if we assume the smurf is scum, one of the players on the bumatlarge voting list is town. If you believe the smurf's story, then the scum are the other four voting for bumatlarge. | ||
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On September 15 2011 22:18 Palmar wrote: what if jackal's speculation is right, and mafia only has one kp. and I got bussed with jackal, who thus visited bum and died, I however likely got randomly put to someone else and got a red check. yeah that's not how bus drivers work. also there's no driver and you're mafia | ||
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On September 15 2011 22:52 Palmar wrote: not helping, shut up. I'm just trying to figure this thing out. you do that. | ||
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##vote Palmar | ||
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On September 16 2011 14:11 GGQ wrote: At this point palmar is still 100% scum, but the lawyer on the loose, it is conceivable that jackal's claim is true and chaos used his lawyer ability on palmar on night one. I'm still leaning toward guilty on jackal, though. Either way, Palmar is our lynch for today because he couldn't have visited bumatlarge. ##vote Palmar And also because scum was like OMG MUST SAVE PALMAR yesterday. | ||
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On September 16 2011 16:24 sandroba wrote: If palmar is sk then mafia wins. We have to lynch mig I think. ##Vote Mig Wait what? How do you know there's a sk? | ||
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On September 16 2011 16:38 sandroba wrote: GGQ he might be sk. If we lynch the sk mafia wins by default. So safest bet is mig. I can't believe you are being this thick unintentionally. For everyone else, please note that mafia went balls out last day to save Palmar, with BayonetAnderson making a really flimsy ploy that basically outed himself as scum and scum also using an extra vote to save him. They wouldn't do this to save a sk. | ||
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On September 16 2011 16:48 GGQ wrote: Also, as of right now, I suspect that if anyone is a sk, it is sandroba who is trying to get a townie lynched to keep the balance of power more equal. Note that this would align with sandroba's attitude of not giving a fuck all game until mafia was close to winning. | ||
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- I never shot bayonette because I figured he only had one shot, obviously I was wrong. I also wasn't sure for a while whether he was scum; I had other scum targets picked (iirc my scum list was chaos13, mig, and bumatlarge, with palmar and sandroba as my next picks) and wasn't looking for more at the time - I shot wbg to push us closer to lylo because a town that has mislynches can lynch a sk, a town that's too close to lylo has to lynch mafia. I didn't realise that BA could shoot again and that mafia had a hidden vote, which made it more dangerous than I knew. - I had chaos13 as my surest scum read and was just keeping him aside to shoot when I needed a scum kill -I figured that jackal was the parity cop because of the lawyer flip, but my last couple days were all part of a grand plan that failed miserably. sandroba was pushing mig as the last scum and I was publicly suspecting jackal. For some reason based on some twisted convoluted logic that I can't quite follow anymore, I thought that shooting jackal would make mig think sandroba was the sk, so mig would doublevote sandroba and I would win. | ||
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On September 19 2011 10:21 Mig wrote: My scum play is definitely still terrible. 100x worse than my normal town. GGQ/Curu/Zona all played well Thanks for hosting Ace. And big thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts all game. When did you know I was sk? Was there any chance you were going to lynch sandroba? | ||
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