Resurrection Mafia - Page 29

On September 05 2011 01:45 Palmar wrote:


pretty busy today, can write up stuff tomorrow.

two games in a row I have concluded that chaos13's reads cannot possibly be this bad, and thus he must be mafia, but two games in a row he has proven me wrong, once again I'm basing my read on him on the fact that I just don't agree with his reads.

Ace hasn't written anything, thus his alignment can't be determined yet. I think he's just being an asshole and not scum, but with so little to go on, the error margin is big.

Bum/On are my two primary targets for lynching today, only problem is that this setup sucks, so if we stick 4 on one, and 3 on the other, the mafia can stick 3 on the third and voteblock one of the three voting for bum/on, and thus guarantee a town kill, then they just reanimate someone as zombie and kill two more townies.

I haven't really done the math, but I can't see a way to actually win this thing.

I'm fine with lynching bum and on, let's do it. I'd be fine with day-vigging one of them and lynching chaos or ace.

On September 04 2011 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:



Few things here I want to point out. There's a bunch of WIFOM here with respect to bum. For me, personally, looking at everything that's happened today/yesterday and at the vote counts, I give bum a 50/50% shot at flipping mafia. I think sandroba is town, so I value his RB claim (and no one has counter claimed RB) so I think it's very possible that mafia RBed sandroba in order to get fewer votes on bum. Then again, we could very likely have been on the path to lynch 3 townies, so mafia could've just arbitrarily picked sandroba because he appeared to be a definite town, possibly with a power, so they blocked him and created this WIFOM because of sandroba's insistence on lynching bum.

bum=?

Next, look at the other two people who voted varpulis. Kenpachi and red. They voted together on me as well. I'm thinking their alignments are possibly linked. I give them a strong chance to both flip mafia, or both flip town. I'll get back to them in a sec.

The remaining two players I suspect are chaos13 and ON.

+ Show Spoiler +

Well, all three of those players are green. I can guarantee you all that.

Chaos here attempting to forge a connection between myself and sandroba somehow. Any decent player will know that no such connection exists. He then immediately follows up with this:

I didn't like the tone of Sandroba's post there, and really didn't like the fact that he asked someone to ignore my post on you, so I decided to make an attack on him to gauge his reaction. It may not have been the most well planned idea, but it was not intended to be interpreted as a full-blown accusation for long. I was going to wait for him to respond and then post explaining my thoughts behind it. As I mentioned, I ended up being busy yesterday.


+ Show Spoiler +

When immediately called out on his shitty reasoning, he just says "good point" without explicitly acknowledging that he's dead wrong/being misleading about sinani/me/sandroba. Sinani is not scum.

Then, doesn't actually question Palmar, doesn't defend himself, doesn't do anything to actually substantiate his arguments. Whenever attention goes to chaos, he brushes it off and tries to go under the radar. This happened day 1 when he got two votes as well; he just completely dismissed the votes and tried getting less attention. I figure he probably knew that trying to defend himself would just expose more of his scumminess.

The "good point" was intended to show that I hadn't even realized that mafia couldn't have been lynched yesterday. It required someone shoving the information directly under my nose for me to realize it. Yes, I can be that ignorant sometimes. As for Palmar calling me scum...how was I supposed to defend myself? There was literally nothing there to defend. I could rant forever about how he should bring up an argument, but he didn't vote for me, so there was no point. Notice the difference between my interaction with Ace/Palmar and my interaction with you? You've actually provided something for me to answer, so I'm answering. I'm doing nothing to try to take attention away from myself.

+ Show Spoiler +

Shows a blatant disregard for actually reading the thread/being informed.

He then tries to make a case on me for having apparently shitty reasoning/trying to inform the town of game mechanics. So, if he's town, he's completely stupid, which I find rather unlikely. Instead, I find him probably to be mafia, being purposely misleading. No one misses this many things as a dumb townie.

I have a tendency to start games without fully understanding mechanics that don't directly affect me. It's a bad habit, I know, and there's no excuse for it. My accusation on you was genuine. If it was stupid, well so be it. Nothing I can change about that now.

+ Show Spoiler +

Here's where he replies to both votes on him day 1, but doesn't really do anything about it, just tries to brush off the votes.

1. He doesn't address Jackal's meta argument. If Jackal had it incorrect, I'd think chaos would've actually responded somehow to it.
2. Chaos acknowledges that Ace has voted him for no reason, but doesn't actually provoke Ace or demand Ace provide reasoning. Just "hello Ace."

He then IMMEDIATELY slips into something else, bringing attention away from those votes on himself:

+ Show Spoiler +

So, he votes Varpulis for apparently having a shitty meta argument. I'm taking "for the strongest mta argument I've seen" to be sarcasm.

Here is Varp's filter:

Filter Varpulis-what meta?

Either I'm retarded, or Varp never once used meta to accuse anyone of anything.

On the other hand, this brings up a great question. Why would chaos vote varp for having a shitty meta argument (when, in fact, he had no meta argument whatsoever) but would not call out Jackal's meta argument against himself? Did he not want attention brought to it?

I think so. I think the running theme of chaos13 is "don't bring attention to myself."

Don't believe me? Read his filter. Filter Chaos13 Since I get the vibe you don't want attention, chaos, I'm giving it to you. Bring it on, biatch.

You can look at a lot of games where I start out by harping about spam. In a lot of those I'm town. In a few of them I'm scum. I didn't feel any need to address his argument because it was unsubstantial and I figured he would find a better candidate soon. As for Ace's vote, it's the same deal I explained earlier. From what I'd seen so far, any attempt to get information out of Ace had proven to be less than useful and more than frustrating. There was also no argument for me to defend myself from. In short, there was nothing worth doing.
Why did I then move attention to something else? Well, what's the point of double posting when I can put it all in one? Why did I move my vote? Because it was doing no good on Palmar and it needed to be placed on varp/sinani/bum, who were the three leading candidates at the time. To leave it elsewhere would be anti-town, and there were a few players pressuring (sandroba, I think?) myself and the others with votes elsewhere (much like you're doing now encouraging people to vote ON/bum) to move them to one of those people.
You're a little off on why I voted varp, and perhaps that is my fault for not making it clear enough. It had nothing to do with an argument by Varp, but one against him. That argument can be found here and it was by redFF.

Finally, ON. I called him out after the voting was closed, right before the daypost, for not changing his vote. He threw away his vote on Kenpachi similar to how chaos had thrown his vote on Palmar prior to voting Varpulis. The only difference is that ON was actually around to change his vote but didn't change. He was aware that his vote didn't matter, and his argument was nonexistent. This is why I voted ON with the intention of getting people's attention away from sinani+varp, who were clearly town. In the 6 hours I was gone though, no one actually paid attention to my argument.

He didn't really respond at all to me pointing out that he wasted his vote, and he was even there right before the closure of votes. The problem is that now there is more information to go on and make a case against chaos than there is against ON, since chaos has appeared more scummy in the time that ON has not posted.

Here's where I come back to redff and kenpachi. While I think there's a strong chance these guys are linked, I also think that there exists an opposing link between ON and kenpachi. I can't be sure of this, but this is my gut feeling. If ON is mafia, kenpachi is town, and vice versa.

HOWEVER, this does not rule out the possibility that there are 4 mafia, or at least 3 mafia and some independent role we need to kill anyway. I am most sure of chaos, ON, redff, kenpachi, bum in that order. Things may change as people post more, but for now I really think the only person who is not going to come off that list is chaos, so I'm going to vote him.

##unvote
##vote chaos13.

Also upon reading bum's posts I lean town on him. He's giving me a different vibe than I got in XLIV. It doesn't rule him out of being mafia, just something I feel at this particular juncture.

On September 05 2011 02:49 chaos13 wrote:
redFF - I'm just gonna write as I think and see what conclusion I come to. Sorry if this gets a little roundabout or spammy.

There have already been inconsistencies pointed out in his admittedly strange claim. He has only two checks, then he has two per day, and my personal favorite "Coroner must have died because I checked people." If your claim were true I am more than sure that iGrok would have sent you a PM saying "The coroner has died, you have become the new coroner, etc."
So I don't believe his claim. Does this make him mafia? Not necessarily. If you're town, I certainly hope you have a good reason for lying.
I want to save everyone some time here and tell you not to bother trying to get him to clear up his claim. He will stick to what he's said 100% despite all the contradictions in it. I recall an insane game I played with him on another site where he was mafia, fake claimed emperor with a ton of inconsistencies, lies, and contradictions and stubbornly refused to admit defeat when I called him out on every single one of them. From this I know that he's not afraid to fake claim as mafia. The problem is that I can't see the rest of his play coming from a mafia perspective in a normal game. But this is not a normal game. In other words, mafia have no fear of pushing a horrible lynch, because they don't have to be accountable for it. Looking at it that way, red's pushing for Varp D1 makes perfect sense as mafia.
Conclusion - I'm not gonna waste more time typing out my thoughts here. redFF is mafia and should be killed asap.

On September 05 2011 02:49 chaos13 wrote:
redFF - I'm just gonna write as I think and see what conclusion I come to. Sorry if this gets a little roundabout or spammy.

There have already been inconsistencies pointed out in his admittedly strange claim. He has only two checks, then he has two per day, and my personal favorite "Coroner must have died because I checked people." If your claim were true I am more than sure that iGrok would have sent you a PM saying "The coroner has died, you have become the new coroner, etc."
So I don't believe his claim. Does this make him mafia? Not necessarily. If you're town, I certainly hope you have a good reason for lying.
I want to save everyone some time here and tell you not to bother trying to get him to clear up his claim. He will stick to what he's said 100% despite all the contradictions in it. I recall an insane game I played with him on another site where he was mafia, fake claimed emperor with a ton of inconsistencies, lies, and contradictions and stubbornly refused to admit defeat when I called him out on every single one of them. From this I know that he's not afraid to fake claim as mafia. The problem is that I can't see the rest of his play coming from a mafia perspective in a normal game. But this is not a normal game. In other words, mafia have no fear of pushing a horrible lynch, because they don't have to be accountable for it. Looking at it that way, red's pushing for Varp D1 makes perfect sense as mafia.
Conclusion - I'm not gonna waste more time typing out my thoughts here. redFF is mafia and should be killed asap.

On September 05 2011 03:18 bumatlarge wrote:
I cannot believe palmar and bugs can be this thick. RedFF's claim is BULLSHIT

THERE
IS
NO
WAY
THAT
CAN
BE
REAL

Sandroba just said himself that redff is hiding some aspect. Hopefully someone on redff is pious.
Please be try to be diligent townies. Chaos you're saying redff should be lynched asap yet you keep your vote on ON? What is everyone smoking? Please read what I put for sandroba before I most likely get lynched.

On September 05 2011 03:25 chaos13 wrote:
bum, I'm having second thoughts on redFF. His post history doesn't quite match up with mafia motivations. I don't know what to think of him after spending some more time pondering it.

Ace is scum. ON is scum. bum I'm not so sure of.

I'd have to say Ace/ON/Kenpachi is the scum team.

On September 05 2011 03:49 Kenpachi wrote:
for testing purposes.
##unvote wherebugsgo
##vote OriginalName

I only want to see if Ace/Bum/ON might be the pious