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Translation:
youngminii the Mafia Kangaroo has been lynched.
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youngminii was actually a Vanilla Townie.................
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Alright let's settle on the turbolynch.
And begin discussion.
chaos13/Lucidity/Sevyrn seem to be the hot topics for today. Of the Vet list, BC is my suspect.
I'd also be a bit wary of Drazerk since his entire scum game in PTP was to be useless and active lurk while voting/bussing to gain Town cred.
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By settle on the turbolynch I mean don't turbolynch.
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I'll post my in depth thoughts when I get home, laptop at 9% battery remaining.
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Was anyone roleblocked tonight?
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Well Town, let's get off fucking IRC where everyone just talks about FF6 and cooking and dead RedFF is the MOST ACTIVE PERSON. I mean when a person who can't say anything about the game is the most active in the IRC it's clearly useless.
This game is not won. Don't go into IDGAF mode. This thread needs life.
I want to point out chaos:
On August 02 2011 09:20 chaos13 wrote:
DrH has the right idea here. Yes, confirmed townies are excellent. However, mafia can easily fake claim a role like medic or vig, and then we would need to waste our DT checks in order to confirm those claims. Not only that, but we have no idea who the day vig actually is. If it's in the hands of a weaker player, that could lead to complete and utter disaster. Having one player coordinate all the actions of the blues is never a good thing. There is far too much room for error in such a situation, especially since mafia are able to PM and influence the game as well. Ultimately, however, it is up to the individuals with the roles to decide what to do. Discussion about this is very good, but I would rather not waste all day with it. Just something to keep in mind if we're still arguing about it in 24 hours.
Vigis, because there are probably a lot of you in here: Do not shoot unless it is at confirmed scum. If you feel you must shoot anyway, take out lurkers and liars. This sort of common sense is all too often ignored, and results in dead town. Even take DT claims with a grain of salt. If analysis points to a player being town when a claimed check has shown red, proceed with caution. It could be a miller or a scum's fake claim in order to waste a vig shot, especially if the claimed DT player has been under suspicion.
First post jumping in extremely late on the sandroba plan issue. Feels like he just waited until sides had developed, then chose one and jumped on it. He contributed no original ideas or arguments on it, merely following what was already said in the thread. His first post was completely full of bland generic advice, in fact this entire post is the picture of appearing to contribute without actually contributing anything at all.
He was pretty wishy washy on the Varpulis/Drazerk issue; he agrees that Varpulis looks worse:
On August 03 2011 11:37 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
At the moment I am not feeling either Varp lynch or the lucidity lynch. Factor in both at the moment are being more active than most players in the game, I would be more inclined to at least let them live another cycle. I however don't like when players come in to hop on bandwagons or attempt to start them then vanish. It irks me completely. As such, until Drazerk comes back into the thread to at least play / explain his inactivity I suggest we move our lynch to him.
I would rather lynch someone appearing scummy / useless than someone who is being linked as scummy and is active. Their activity will help clear / damn them whereas inactivity doesn't give us dick all to work with. I support this statement, with a slight exception. I don't like the way Varpulis is looking so far, and I would be okay with voting/lynching him. Drazerk is interesting though, and I'll consider placing my vote on him instead of Varp. Lurking is extremely scummy, especially after attempting to instigate a bandwagon on someone. I don't like the Lucidity wagon at all. Something about it just feels off to me, and I feel that Lucid has been playing pro-town, sharing thoughts and developing logical reads.
In a post that is also really wishy washy and not really taking either side. He does say he finds Varpulis worse. However, when a bit of traction began picking up on the Drazerk wagon (ON and Sevyrn agree against Drazerk), this happens:
On August 03 2011 21:11 chaos13 wrote:My vote today will be going on Drazerk. Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 08:41 Drazerk wrote:
##Vote RedFF
Opposing sand's plan with no real reasons while defending himself like a mad man in IRC when he has no real reason to defend himself yet. This is the post in which he initially accused redFF. Note the complete lack of actual evidence. It was until his suspect actually encouraged him to post the irc log that he did so, and that arrived almost 20 minutes after this quoted post. Then, as you all know, he completely disappeared while posting actively elsewhere on the site. Let's lynch ourselves a scum day 1. ##Vote: Drazerk
No new evidence had been brought up, nothing else concrete, just a few people starting to lean towards Drazerk. I feel like this indicated to him it was safe to put his vote down now so, despite thinking Varpulis was worse, he goes ahead and votes Drazerk.
Once JeeJee was under fire he posted no opinion on him despite that being the hot topic and instead came up with a big wall of text about Munk-E.
Let's start up discussion people.
##Vote chaos13
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On August 09 2011 13:09 OriginalName wrote:Lucidity: Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 08:29 Lucidity wrote:On August 02 2011 08:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
if you read my posts i provided reasons
1. we dont know if there are more than 1 doctor which is kinda important
2. mafia can stack hits to kill the vig
3. vig could shoot doctor ruining everything
4. vig will probably hit town its rare you get a mafia on day 1 much less a successful day 1 vig
here ar emore reasons i havent provided yet
5. mafia can use this to keep town focused on the blue network/suspicious of other peoples claims and put attention on the vig and off of post analysis which is what wins games for town
what do you consider a real reason it would be nice if instead of unconditional instant support for someone elses plan which is mildly suspicious you read my posts and if my reasons aren't good enough at least say why instead of just saying "youre scum" lol
"we've already found 2 scum" its day 1 dont be ridiculous 1. Medics are basically the only problem I see at the moment. I don't think that qualifies as a reason to instantly discard the plan. 2. Having Mafia stack hits reduces their KP, which isn't a bad thing. We'll still have no overlaps on Night 1 from blues. 3. What? 4. That's the case on Day 2 as well. On August 02 2011 07:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On August 02 2011 07:26 Mig wrote:
No just tell the vigs who to hit, medics who to protect, dts who to check. All he has to do is make sure nobody is overlapping or shooting each other. As long as the day vig doesn't reveal anything else mafia isn't going to gain very much information from it. if this happens which i hope it doesnt i really hope you're not suggesting he openly tells the blues what to do in irc/thread Another terrible attempt to stop the plan. Why would he be suggesting that? Backs mafia plan, when reasonable evidence is posed against it trys to keep it moving by antagonizing DrH. Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 19:35 Lucidity wrote:
Haha, I guess I was still in the Asylum mindset with mass blue everywhere - somehow thought that all 7 blue roles listed would be in the game. ~4 blues make sense and we're very unlikely to have 2 medics in that, so a plan to coordinate them this early isn't actually that great.
I think the only time that we should be claiming is if Mafia only have 1 KP left or if a Day Vig hits a Vet, leaving us with 2 confirmed townies. One of them will survive the night and be able to pass on info~
redFF, forever RED? As soon as he realizes its not going through posts a lame excuse to his change of heart. Keeps on pushing Red after a somewhat decent analysis is posted on him. (Red was Town btw). Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 06:38 Lucidity wrote:
You're still misunderstanding that post. I was simply telling the people who were whining to stop it and do what they consider to be useful. I wasn't telling THE WHOLE TOWN to do it. And I certainly wasn't referring to myself. I think the discussion needed to happen so that we could see all the holes in the plan. It also provided a platform to start scumhunting and it even provided a great scum candidate in Varp.
If you want to continue the discussion about how your reasoning was bad I'd be happy to do it in PM. I feel it's useless spam in the thread. TRYS TO STYM IN THREAD DISSCUSSION. Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 03:02 Lucidity wrote:I've got stuff to do and places to be. So: + Show Spoiler +
19:37.21 ( taa ) i think
19:37.27 ( taa ) chaos is the 4th scum
19:37.45 ( taa ) like
19:37.54 ( taa ) he tries to divert the votes to munk e
19:41.05 ( ON|AFK ) taa
19:41.07 ( ON|AFK ) wait till
19:41.10 ( ON|AFK ) jeejee flips
19:41.12 ( ON|AFK ) to speculate
19:41.14 ( ON|AFK ) on scum number
19:41.15 ( ON|AFK ) lol
19:41.17 ( taa ) ok
19:42.53 ( Lucidity ) I don't think any scum is under the illusion that the vote can jump to someone else
19:42.53 ( taa ) Wishy-washy doesn't even begin to explain this. He just won't make up his mind! While I'm not sure this indicates him 100% as being scum, it is VERY suspicious. Unfortunately however, I don't think it's possible to brand him as scum from JUST this. but he's certainly quite possibly scum.
19:43.00 ( Lucidity ) they're probably all on the bandwagon already
19:43.12 ( taa ) read that quote
19:43.13 ( taa ) lol
19:43.26 ( Lucidity ) Munk-E is mad scum
19:43.27 ( taa ) but he's certainly quite possibly scum.
19:43.33 ( Lucidity ) I was going to post chaos' analysis actually
19:43.43 ( Lucidity ) if JeeJee filps medic
19:43.49 ( alanismorisette ) yeah
19:43.51 ( Lucidity ) i think BC is scum
19:43.57 ( alanismorisette ) u guys are too set on lynching jeejee
19:44.05 ( alanismorisette ) Lucidity: if u think that why is ur vote on jeejee
19:44.11 ( Lucidity ) my vote is nowhere
19:44.14 ( Lucidity ) I haven't been here today
19:44.26 ( Lucidity ) I was just busy reading now
19:44.27 ( alanismorisette ) oh its not
19:44.29 ( alanismorisette ) k
19:45.01 ( Lucidity ) Munk-E was the much better candidate at the start of the day imo
19:45.07 ( Lucidity ) but JeeJee kind of dug his own grave
19:45.14 ( Lucidity ) culminating with his selfvote
19:45.23 ( Lucidity ) double you tea eff mate
19:46.00 ( Lucidity ) Why did Mig reveal the names of all the claimed medics?
19:46.06 ( Lucidity ) JeeJee was going to be lynched anyway
19:46.08 ( Lucidity ) there was no reason to
19:46.16 ( alanismorisette ) i guess he wants full disclosure
19:46.20 ( alanismorisette ) to town
19:46.22 ( alanismorisette ) ?
19:46.24 ( Lucidity ) But with the names out in the open, when the medics staart dying
19:46.32 ( alanismorisette ) Kurumi:
19:46.32 ( Lucidity ) he can say he wasn't the only one with access to the names
Voted JeeJee. If he's really medic he fucked up big time. Also BC should be looked at if he does. Will post more during Night 2 if that happens. Munk-E is scummy scum scum. Basically I agree with the general vibe of chaos' post. Sheeping. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 22:35 Lucidity wrote:On August 05 2011 10:42 OriginalName wrote:On August 05 2011 10:31 youngminii wrote:On August 05 2011 10:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 05 2011 10:21 youngminii wrote:
To clarify:
TAA and BC spent Day 1 trying to focus fire on JeeJee.
TAA either lied or something went horribly wrong in the night actions.
BC is now trying to focus fire on JeeJee as he was one of the people being looked at yesterday.
Here is what's likely:
If TAA flips red, JeeJee should be green. BC is more likely red than green.
If JeeJee flips green, BC and TAA are both motherfucking red.
If BC flips red, JeeJee should be green. TAA is more likely red than green.
In other words, kill TAA/BC.
If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC. I love that by "trying to focus fire on jeejee day 1" was actually very late into the day. Misconstrued evidence. You also neglect to mention If BC is green it is more than likely Jeejee is red and taa is likely green Or if TAA is green it is more than likely jeejee is red and BC is more than likely green Or if JeeJee flips red, TAA and BC are more than likely green. I love that you purposely miss scenarios that are actually relevant to the argument you are trying to make. Killing JeeJee would almost fully clear or damn two players where as killing myself or TAA doesnt fully reveal the alignment of the other two players. Very late into the day is still during the day. Stop throwing around words to make my argument appear weaker. It still happened and you guys still tried to protect Varp. You are absolutely aware that lynching for information comes AFTER lynching for scum. You and TAA are very likely scum in my eyes, why should I go after the information route? You are scum and you are purposely trying to weaken my argument. TAA is likely just an idiot townie, we had a long dissucssion on it. I highly reccommend you read both IRC logs i posted. Lucidity is my biggest scumread at the moment: Primarily because -Scum didnt try to really divert the wagon to him despite him having some votes in the middle of the day. -His reactions on IRC while could be being misrepresented say quite alot on the subject. -Keeps casting doubt on Mig despite his supposed role and all his actions during D1 (Which were quite Pro-town) I need to go over his posts one more time but it will probably be tommorrow when I have a clearer head, i sometimes find the need to step away from a game for a sec so when i come back i can reevaluate and maybe catch things i didnt find the day before etc. + Show Spoiler +[17:48] <BloodyC0bbler> i suddenly like [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> your day 1 finger pointing [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> at lucidity [17:49] <redFF1> :O [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249971¤tpage=8#156[17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249971¤tpage=29#569[17:49] <redFF1> yeah [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> keep in mind mig [17:49] <redFF1> i dont like him [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> isnt 100% [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> but [17:49] <redFF1> yeah [17:49] <redFF1> those 2 posts [17:49] <redFF1> contradict [17:49] <Lucidity> Mig is not a confirmed townie [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> are very [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> hes not [17:50] <BloodyC0bbler> but seriously dude [17:50] <Original|Laptop> Mig is very close to confirmed [17:50] <BloodyC0bbler> who the fuck [17:50] == Lucidity [~nnscript@Lucidity.users.quakenet.org] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] [17:50] <BloodyC0bbler> shoots trotske [17:50] <Original|Laptop> oh lol [17:50] <Original|Laptop> Lucid [17:50] <Original|Laptop> fucking leaves [17:50] <Original|Laptop> after he knows hes wrong [17:50] <BloodyC0bbler> rofl [17:50] <Drazerk> lol [17:50] <Original|Laptop> and grasping [17:50] <Original|Laptop> wow [17:50] <Original|Laptop> thats so sad [17:50] <BloodyC0bbler> "oh shit i got caught" [17:50] <Original|Laptop> I didnt like him before [17:50] <Original|Laptop> But im almost sure now [17:50] <Original|Laptop> Hes trying to cast doubt on Mig [17:50] <Kenpachi_> loool [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249971&user=86738[17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> add in that [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> he liked idea of day 2 confirmed [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> townie [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> -_- On August 05 2011 18:14 Barundar wrote:
Mig is pretty clear town, he was already by night time for leading the varp lynch, and the missing kp in the day post just adds to that. I don't see a reason not to claim to him. I'm not sure why no one can see this, but Mig is not confirmed town. The only way to confirm your role is to shoot someone in the Day or to die. Mig hasn't done either. Yes he looks very pro town. No he isn't confirmed. I didn't ragequit IRC as is being suggested. This happened at approx 1am my time. I was tired and busy shutting down programs. I read the thread, I read a few lines on IRC. I replied and I quit. I didn't stay around, because I had plans of putting my head on my pillow, not arguing about Mig. I think my position has produced some interesting results at least. This is my first game with BC, but everyone always suggests that he is a Veteran and an amazing player. The way he reacted to my position suggests otherwise: [17:48] <BloodyC0bbler> i suddenly like [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> your day 1 finger pointing [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> at lucidity [17:49] <redFF1> :O [17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249971¤tpage=8#156[17:49] <BloodyC0bbler> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249971¤tpage=29#569Here he contrasts me being pro-confirming to a confirmed townie and being against it when it's Mig. This is a terrible comparison, because Mig isn't a confirmed townie. He's trying to show me contradicting myself by misrepresenting the situation. Essentially scum painting. [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249971&user=86738[17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> add in that [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> he liked idea of day 2 confirmed [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> townie [17:51] <BloodyC0bbler> -_- Again, he's implying that I'm contradicting myself. I wasn't. A Day 2 confirmed townie is great. Mig isn't one of those. Why would such a great player make such silly mistakes? Now, I've had a slight uneasiness with Mig ever since he PMd me early on Day 1. + Show Spoiler +Original Message From Mig: Hey, I really like your observations and I agree with most of what you had said. Varp starts off with attempting to appear super pro town but shortly after he falls into making bland vague statements without taking any stands. Varp and chaos both attacked trotske and both had very poor reasoning behind their attacks. Along with that I think there were logic errors in both of their arguments against sand's plan. Definitely very suspicious of both of them, although chaos' post defending himself against syllo made him seem a bit more townie to me. Drh really not sure yet. I am not familiar enough with his meta. BC has said that Drh is fearless as scum and very willing to push mafia objectives openly. Where as when he is town he is a lot less sure of himself. So right now I would lean slightly scum but I really want to see him call some people out and see him do some scum hunting before I feel strongly one way or the other about him. Besides them I have been in contact with bc/sandro/curu/syllo I feel like at least one of them is very likely scum just from a balance perspective. Right now I would lean curu being scum because he hasn't been nearly as aggressive as he was in AA as town. However that is just an early suspicion. Show nested quote +Original Message From Lucidity: Hi there redFF is the scummiest at the moment. He's essentially doing what he did in Arkham's Asylum. Takes a position with no real reasoning (the majority of the reasons he gave are terrible) and is overly defensive. He seems to "joke around" to look like a careless townie. I don't really have an opinion on chaos yet. I didn't really like his comment on the fake medic. The same thing with info gained from a dead townie. By Day 3 there is always info from every death, unless the player perma lurked. Need more info to get a read on him. Both redFF and Vaprulis made posts referencing the Engineer, which isn't present in the game. Their first posts also contained the same generic town advice regarding Town KP. Found that interesting. Might be a link there. Varp is initially concerned about a potential mass amount of blues and KP, but soon after mentions that we're not likely to have many blues at all. His latest FoS feels forced. As if he feels obligated to throw around suspicion and chose a random post to do so. What are your thoughts on them? And drH? Original Message From Mig:
Hello!
I hope you are not mafia again lucidity!
Who do you think is scummy so far? What do you think about chaos/varp/redff? As you can see I made a very basic reply. He replied with, "I really like your observations!". To me that's not how a townie would react. It's almost as if he's trying to make me like him by complimenting a bland analysis, agreeing with what I had to say. This is something that scum does. They want you to like them. They want you to trust them. When two townies interact in PMs they are both suspicious of the other one. They don't try to have the other like them, because he could be scum. Obviously this doesn't make Mig scum, but it didn't sit well with me and I was wary of him ever since this exchange. In AA we had a similar scenario where Palmar effectively lynched scum on his own on Day 2. Many people hailed him as a confirmed townie and advocated a mass claim to him. Palmar turned out to be an anti-town role. Mig appears very pro-town at the moment, but he is not confirmed town. I don't like mass claiming to non-confirmed town. I have to ask though, why are people so keen to mass claim to him? If he is town, then we gain the benefit of an organised night. If Kenpachi's RB claim was real, then we also more than 4 Blue's most likely, which makes night organisation more useful. If Mig is red though, we lose every blue in the game? It's a gamble when we don't need to take one. I don't like it.
TAA's claim is confusing. It's bad as either town or scum. While there are occasions where it is acceptable to lie as Town (RoL in AA for example. His plan was good and had the chance to work), this wasn't one of them. There was absolutely no pro-town outcome on the cards. Then again, I can't see the pro-scum outcome either? Other than possible confusion? But that's quite risky for minimal reward. It's fucked. If we don't find a real scum candidate (i.e. one who actually acted pro-red) we should turn to LAL. It has the added benefit of discouraging townies from lying in the future too. I point back to D2. Uses past games as reasons and he slips through again. HOLY SHIT SHEEP MORE. Fakeclaim moar. I find Lucid Scummy.
Mafia plan? That thing was mostly the brainchild of Mig and sandroba. Lucidity is scummy yes but the timing of his Vet claim is so weird as scum.
The motivation I thought of and discussed with Mig was if youngminii was Mafia. Lucidity could then claim Vet in the hopes that we lynch through the Vet circle and forget about youngminii. But that's clearly not the case.
What do you think about chaos?
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Yes I'm aware that a fraction of the time something does get done in there but when throughout the past 8 or so hours it's been people talking about FF6 and ghrur asking BC for cooking tips.
IRC is more or less the thread in realtime anyways, let's be more active here without all the spam and offtopic crap. Any discussion there also gives a free pass to anyone not in IRC, making lurkers even more dangerous.
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Ugh look people, we have 3 mislynches available until lylo. The game is in no way won.
TAA, Sevyrn, Barundar, Kenpachi, chaos if you can't put forth the effort to even post something of worth every few hours please ask to be replaced out.
Losing this game after half the scum team gone by night 2 would be the most embarrassing ordeal on TL, worse than the SNMMV debacle.
It's been like 18 hours and I'm still the only vote that's been cast.
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Drazerk too
-_-
If we enter lylo with 3 of those Town is fucked beyond all measure.
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Do not quickhammer chaos please. Give him time to come into the thread and for everyone to weigh in.
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Just some things from Skype:
Through his convos with him, Mig got an extreme Town vibe
syllo firmly believed at the start of the game that there would be no Medics this game - JeeJee still claimed Medic
syllo had a great opportunity to frame me were he Mafia: Mig had thought me suspicious, told syllo that were he to die Night 1 he should take a long look at me for being scum. syllo knew Mig was a Vet at this point but he still didn't die
syllo was the only person who knew Mig was a Vet before night 1, Mig got hit without a roleblock
syllo fully knew about the all Vet fake Doc plan, Mafia still fired their KP into it
What I don't like about him is the extremely uninterested, defeatist attitude he's had lately since Mig died. I don't know why he's like that, but he was pretty enthusiastic, involved, and effective for the other games I've seen him in (all Town).
I still want to hear what chaos has to say. It's amazing that someone who everyone agrees is scummy is suddenly off the hook because syllogism is lurking.
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syllo doesn't make sense as a lynch to me because the case is just stupid. It's built entirely on lurker behavior and WIFOM. Do you guys honestly think syllo would waste 2 KP trying to confirm himself to Mig, having Mig tell people he thought syllo was 99% Town, then killing him? If his strategy was to buy cred then skate to lylo he most certainly would have left Mig alive till then as well.
I'm more convinced on chaos now. His reasoning for voting syllo is even more nonsensical, and it's clear he's just doing it in an attempt to save himself.
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syllo though you really need to come in and play to the potential I know you can. Don't make me look bad for sticking my neck out for you like this.
chaos's defense was terrible, mostly for these two points:
On August 10 2011 10:47 chaos13 wrote:
Something felt off about lynching draz over varp. It was a gut feeling that proved right, and I'm not sure how that makes me scummy
Those are the only points I can recall being brought up against me. If you guys have more questions I have the next hour or so to be active.
As for my vote today, I'm leaning syllo. BC brought up some decent points, and I find it interesting that contrary to every single other lynch we have had over the past few days, we actually have someone defending him - Curu
First point, he's trying to say "something felt off about lynching draz over varp" as trying to convince us he voted for Varpulis. Blatant contradiction; here's his day 1 vote:
On August 03 2011 21:11 chaos13 wrote:My vote today will be going on Drazerk. Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 08:41 Drazerk wrote:
##Vote RedFF
Opposing sand's plan with no real reasons while defending himself like a mad man in IRC when he has no real reason to defend himself yet. This is the post in which he initially accused redFF. Note the complete lack of actual evidence. It was until his suspect actually encouraged him to post the irc log that he did so, and that arrived almost 20 minutes after this quoted post. Then, as you all know, he completely disappeared while posting actively elsewhere on the site. Let's lynch ourselves a scum day 1. ##Vote: Drazerk
On August 03 2011 21:14 chaos13 wrote:
Today I feel better voting for Draz
The fact that he suggested syllogism, who I would have considered the most strongly Town (just through actions though, he really does need to post more), shows that he hasn't put any thought or effort into scumhunting. No new contributions, no other alternate candidates he actually thinks are scum, just a bandwagon onto the guy with the next most votes supporting an almost purely WIFOM case presented by BC. He did not come to the conclusion syllo was scum or have any scum reads of his own, he was just trying to attach onto the wagon that would save himself.
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BC:
Three attempts to deflect the wagon off Varpulis day 1. First on Drazerk, then on Kenpachi, finally on JeeJee.
From ON's IRC log:
[23:21] <BloodyC0bbler> -_- mig was making me kinda fishy with his pushing
[23:21] <BloodyC0bbler> of the damn
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> majority lynch
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> i hate majority
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> so hard
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> i just dont like
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> when hosts
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> push
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> majority
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> it gave scum huge
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> and i mean
[23:22] <BloodyC0bbler> huge bonus
He knows majority lynch is awful for Town but said not.a.peep against it. He didn't try to argue it at all, he didn't try to dissuade anyone, he didn't try to save us all from our own cockiness. I invite you all to take a look at PTP2 where BC argued for 20 pages about not using a more or less confirmed DT's check because he thought that it was better for Town to rely on analysis. This is a much bigger issue than that but he made 0 effort to try to stop it.
BC claims Vet. He's also the most experienced and one of the more reputed players in this game. Yet his play does not fit with that; he's been behind the scenes, silent, mostly just watching. Highly central figure with Vet power...I'd expect him to be a lot more active and visible, contributing significantly and visibly to Town. This also gave him an excuse for why he was not shot when he should be a high priority Mafia target.
At the beginning of the game, syllogism, sandroba, BC, Mig, and I discussed the power roles in this game. Together, we came to the conclusion that there were no Medics. I don't know if any of you formed the same opinion, but as a group we were almost certain there were no Medics. Almost everyone was calling for the Medic on Mig or ON. Mig shouldn't have been a hit since Mafia would almost have to believe the Medic would be there, yet he still was.
Mig actually used this as a "test" for me because he found me scummy when I asked him in Skype how he'd feel about switching from Varpulis to JeeJee (looked like last minute scum saving, but both flipped red so it's moot). He knew that I was one of the only players in the game that was almost sure there were no Medics so he thought if he took a hit that would point at me. Same point here applies to BC.
On August 04 2011 15:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
med should protect kenpachi (never thought i'd say this) / drh / mig / curu
Not a huge tell but in case there was a Medic, suggesting Kenpachi and me as protects when we were both awful protects at the time.
Finally this awful wagon against syllogism. I'm beyond impressed he actually managed to convince almost half the Town syllogism was scum based on lurker behavior and WIFOM, when it was pretty clear syllo had almost bulletproof Town cred. It came at a time when chaos was the sure wagon and almost worked to get syllo lynched instead. Yes he proposed 1-1 but consider we had 3 mislynches; syllo flipping Town would be one mislynch, then he would likely convince us to hit DrH, 2 gone if Town, then finally himself. That brings us to mylo already just for clearing the Vets. Maybe he could have even convinced us to hit Lucidity before him, which would have left us in lylo.
The random shots I don't see as a sign of an inexperienced Mafia team (anyone with common sense could see better shots) but more methodical. They could explain why the experienced players weren't being shot (BC himself included) and could be used to introduce misleading trails. BC was the one who knew of the Sevyrn-Trotske connection, he also first pointed out the TAA-Trotske connection.
The one redeeming factor I see is that JeeJee had a Medic claim when BC was one of the group that was sure there were no Medics, but there's so much WIFOM there I wouldn't give much weight to it. If BC's plan was to bus JeeJee from the start, which seems to fit with JeeJee's general "I don't want to play I got Mafia 3 times in a row I just want to play as Town," it could make more sense. BC also pushed heavily in Skype that only one of him and JeeJee could possibly be scum, which also lends credit to the bus theory. Still, mostly WIFOM here.
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If BC is last scum Drazerk gets MVP for.....
doing nothing.
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Hey Sevyrn who do you think we should lynch now?
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Sevyrn have you been reading the thread and actually forming conclusions? You say BC is suspicious, then actually go with BC's case and say syllo is too?
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Why syllo before the other Vets? Lucidity and DrH fall into the Vet category as well.
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EPT
