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TL Mafia XLIII - Page 30

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redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
August 05 2011 01:06 GMT
#581
On August 05 2011 09:55 Drazerk wrote:
##vote: JeeJee

Reasons stated earlier in the thread.

Going to bed keep posting IRC discussions.

nope you dont get to do that why are you voting shinbi?
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:14 GMT
#582
On August 05 2011 07:03 Mig wrote:
I was shot btw

champion!

Nice read btw YM. SCREAMING SCUM

Why are you still going on about this? Does something I say at the beginning of Day 1 really pertain throughout the entire game? lawlawlawl whatever floats your boat

I see no harm in claiming to Mig. He's definitely not confirmed town but it's like a 90/10 gamble, considering how no one ever does batshit insane bus play afaik.

TAA is pure scum in my eyes. "I'm a Vig" LOL and the misdirection Day 1 trying to point everyone towards JeeJee instead of Varp, that's just fucking hilarious. Also, on IRC the constant "I am great, I always shoot scum, trust me trust me", really?
lalala
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:15 GMT
#583
also, BC
lalala
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:19 GMT
#584
When on my scumteam JeeJee told me over and over and over again.

"Don't respond to any pressure votes or anyone accusing you. Don't say anything unless other people start to as well."

This fits in with what Varpulis and JeeJee were doing.

The most damning evidence though:

JeeJee in World at War 2 (scum):
On July 07 2011 01:51 JeeJee wrote:
Oh lawd.


JeeJee in this game:
On August 04 2011 06:38 JeeJee wrote:
oh lawd.

wat
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:21 GMT
#585
To clarify:

TAA and BC spent Day 1 trying to focus fire on JeeJee.
TAA either lied or something went horribly wrong in the night actions.
BC is now trying to focus fire on JeeJee as he was one of the people being looked at yesterday.

Here is what's likely:

If TAA flips red, JeeJee should be green. BC is more likely red than green.
If JeeJee flips green, BC and TAA are both motherfucking red.
If BC flips red, JeeJee should be green. TAA is more likely red than green.

In other words, kill TAA/BC.

If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC.
lalala
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:22 GMT
#586
I highly doubt scum TAA is dumb enough to claim Vig as he'd be caught for it immediately.
wat
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:24 GMT
#587
On August 05 2011 10:22 Curu wrote:
I highly doubt scum TAA is dumb enough to claim Vig as he'd be caught for it immediately.

He lied. The lie was not helpful to town in any way. The lie still makes sense when looked at from a scum's perspective.
lalala
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:25 GMT
#588
Makes sense how?

He did it because he wanted to pressure JeeJee into posting a defense probably. Or to see who would object.

Claiming Vig unprovoked is stupid and there's no reason Mafia would do it.

No it's not helpful as Town but it's even more unhelpful as Mafia.
wat
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7875 Posts
August 05 2011 01:28 GMT
#589
On August 05 2011 10:21 youngminii wrote:
To clarify:

TAA and BC spent Day 1 trying to focus fire on JeeJee.
TAA either lied or something went horribly wrong in the night actions.
BC is now trying to focus fire on JeeJee as he was one of the people being looked at yesterday.

Here is what's likely:

If TAA flips red, JeeJee should be green. BC is more likely red than green.
If JeeJee flips green, BC and TAA are both motherfucking red.
If BC flips red, JeeJee should be green. TAA is more likely red than green.

In other words, kill TAA/BC.

If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC.


I love that by "trying to focus fire on jeejee day 1" was actually very late into the day. Misconstrued evidence.

You also neglect to mention

If BC is green it is more than likely Jeejee is red and taa is likely green
Or if TAA is green it is more than likely jeejee is red and BC is more than likely green
Or if JeeJee flips red, TAA and BC are more than likely green.


I love that you purposely miss scenarios that are actually relevant to the argument you are trying to make.

Killing JeeJee would almost fully clear or damn two players where as killing myself or TAA doesnt fully reveal the alignment of the other two players.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:29 GMT
#590
On August 05 2011 10:25 Curu wrote:
Makes sense how?

He did it because he wanted to pressure JeeJee into posting a defense probably. Or to see who would object.

Claiming Vig unprovoked is stupid and there's no reason Mafia would do it.

No it's not helpful as Town but it's even more unhelpful as Mafia.

He's probably GF. An early claim is 'useful' because it has more credibility than a claim when you're on the ropes.

Are you kidding me? Fakeclaiming, PUBLICALLY in a PM game, just to pressure someone? There are easier ways to pressure, and any lying done should be done in PMs.

Fakeclaiming Vig unprovoked is stupid and there's no reason Town would do it. There is, in fact, a reason scum would do it, and it is a bad one. Either way, he should die.

When does the Godfather get to pick his role, exactly?
lalala
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:30 GMT
#591
So what's the reason scum would do it? So that they can get caught immediately like you "caught" TAA?

It's absurdly stupid for scum to do it.
wat
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:31 GMT
#592
On August 05 2011 10:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 10:21 youngminii wrote:
To clarify:

TAA and BC spent Day 1 trying to focus fire on JeeJee.
TAA either lied or something went horribly wrong in the night actions.
BC is now trying to focus fire on JeeJee as he was one of the people being looked at yesterday.

Here is what's likely:

If TAA flips red, JeeJee should be green. BC is more likely red than green.
If JeeJee flips green, BC and TAA are both motherfucking red.
If BC flips red, JeeJee should be green. TAA is more likely red than green.

In other words, kill TAA/BC.

If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC.


I love that by "trying to focus fire on jeejee day 1" was actually very late into the day. Misconstrued evidence.

You also neglect to mention

If BC is green it is more than likely Jeejee is red and taa is likely green
Or if TAA is green it is more than likely jeejee is red and BC is more than likely green
Or if JeeJee flips red, TAA and BC are more than likely green.


I love that you purposely miss scenarios that are actually relevant to the argument you are trying to make.

Killing JeeJee would almost fully clear or damn two players where as killing myself or TAA doesnt fully reveal the alignment of the other two players.

Very late into the day is still during the day. Stop throwing around words to make my argument appear weaker. It still happened and you guys still tried to protect Varp.

You are absolutely aware that lynching for information comes AFTER lynching for scum. You and TAA are very likely scum in my eyes, why should I go after the information route? You are scum and you are purposely trying to weaken my argument.
lalala
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:33 GMT
#593
Oh by the way, if JeeJee flips Godfather youngminii is our third scum:

On August 05 2011 10:21 youngminii wrote:

If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC.


Name 1 reason as scum TAA would want to fakeclaim Vig completely unprovoked. Vig is one of the most easily self confirmable roles in a setup where KP is known, only an idiot would fakeclaim that.
wat
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:33 GMT
#594
On August 05 2011 10:30 Curu wrote:
So what's the reason scum would do it? So that they can get caught immediately like you "caught" TAA?

It's absurdly stupid for scum to do it.

It's less stupid for town to do it. Hence, he must die.
lalala
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
August 05 2011 01:34 GMT
#595
On August 05 2011 09:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 09:19 JeeJee wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Ok, to start with I believe of the remaining 3 scum, jeejee is one of them. I say this for a few reasons. He defended Varpulis. However, he didn’t commit to this defense, he posted one near the very beginning of the bandwagon on him then never touched on the issue once it became a solid lynch. His defense of varpulis

On August 03 2011 02:41 JeeJee wrote:
On August 03 2011 02:09 Mig wrote:
On August 03 2011 01:41 JeeJee wrote:
pressure votes are stupid, where did this trend come from? you know when you say "yeah this is a pressure vote", that's pretty much equivalent to "idk who to vote so i'm voting you, but i'm not actually suspicious of you because all you need to do is say something and i'll remove my vote from you".
nobody can seriously feel threatened from a pressure vote, so there's no 'pressure' it's just a throwaway vote


JeeJee you are correct on this point but what exactly does pointing it out contribute? You have 2 posts and both of them while correct are bland and useless. You commented on pressure votes and neglected to comment on whether you actually thought varp was scummy or not.

Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the 2 leading candidates varp/red?


it points out the fact that sandro's vote isn't a real vote. apparently not everybody realizes that pressure votes are a joke.

i think both of those candidates are a stupid idea. red is being ragged on due to him opposing a tempting plan, but not one without faults. his concerns are legitimate. claiming over-defensiveness as a scum-tell is something i particularly dislike, having been lynched for it multiple times as a townie. further, the people pushing him are useless people like minii who just jump on the hate with zero reasoning whatsoever.

the extent of minii's posts are as follows:
On August 02 2011 16:26 youngminii wrote:
fairly certain redff is scum
he's playing exactly like that other game where i was scum with him
i'm sorry red but your scum play is so obvious

Fin.


varp is being ragged on due to wishy-washness. i just re-read his posts, and the tldr progression is as follows
-vigi dont shoot on hunches
-be active
-no problems re dayvig plan
-realizes its better to delay or outright not do the plan due to stacked hits
-random fos on trotske

i see re-evaluation there, not wishy-washiness. do you see otherwise? random fos are just as useless as pressure votes. sandro and varp are both bad in that department as far as i'm concerned. by itself though, it doesn't mean much, and there's nothing else yet.

as for me, i don't have scum leanings on anyone. town leans yes, scum leans no.


Note that rather than draw emphasis to the posts of those accusing varpulis, or any of varps posts he just sums the series of posts varp made up. I would normally say that this is a moot point, however he did opt to find it worth quoting posts in relation to redff. Why would you defend two people within one post but only bring attention to specific posts on one bandwagon? Possibly moot, but definitely not normal.

minii was hating on red, not varp. if he were hating on varp, i'd have put him in the varp category. it doesn't matter who he is hating when the hate is ill-founded given that he hasn't provided any reasons for it

His next post is 7 hours later saying Hi to drazerk. Followed by 3 hours later appearing to take off on a post that I had made an hour before his post.

actually it was asking drazerk a question, showing that he is indeed avoiding the thread, even questions directly addressed to him that can be answered in five seconds

On August 03 2011 12:30 JeeJee wrote:
looks like cobbles picked up on the same thing i have. what particularly irks me about drazerk today is that he has been posting in the other mafia thread on his usual time of 5-10kst +/-1hr so he has been reading this thread as well. but he declined to weigh in, leaving his vote as-is (essentially throwaway). didnt even answer a simple "how are you" =(

usually when people say 'lurking is a scumtell', i disagree because they clump 'afk' and 'lurk' as interchangeable. afking means nothing as far as i'm concerned, just look at ace in snmm5. lurking (ie being there but not speaking) a la drazerk is a different story.

still not voting, but i'll be here before the deadline tomorrow, no worries.



This post is the first one that seriously tries to move a bandwagon away from varpulis. This is done by first using my name as a “backup” as well as using a lot of out of thread reasoning. He then refuses to vote as he will be around for the deadline. Moments later he makes a post saying screw it, and votes. Now, as someone who mentioned early in the thread he doesn’t believe in pressure voting, we know that this vote is meant to be solid “I believe this person is scum”. We also know that as of roughly 10 hours before he voted he had no scum leanings on any player. How is it that someone who has been moderately inactive much like himself, is suddenly sure of the guilt of another player when his reasoning is “inactivity in this thread but active outside of it” He couldn’t find anything in thread? Or in irc to help.

because it's actually pretty damn scummy when someone is reading the thread but refusing to weigh-in, particularly when his arguments were all shot down and he is throwing away his vote, with the deadline looming. i can't believe you said they weren't serious reasons

He then spends the next bit of time after the lynch to accuse players of bad logic, spam, and refusal to even defend himself from general accusations. He attacks my accusation that I made of him by saying “I brought him up first” when all he had done previously was say “hi how are you” to drazerk.

Overall he has had 17-18 posts all game where a fair majority of them have been spam or generally unhelpful / noncommittal.

the general accusations against me were bad, why would i acknowledge them? like i said, i've been lynched for being overly defensive before. apparently shutting down arguments that nobody can possibly believe is more scummy than just ignoring them.



responses in bold/red.

as for claims,i think it's a good idea. unless you just happen to have a reasonable explanation for the missing KP. hell, even if mig's mafia, he can't just kill off all blues and hope nobody notices -- and him dying would cut mafia kp in half.

lucid/red are being unreasonable imo. yeah nothing is 100%, but it's much more likely mig being town than mafia



I am glad that through all of this "defending" you still opt to not weigh in heavily on the current day. More to the point however you directly misread a section of what I posted against you.

Note that rather than draw emphasis to the posts of those accusing varpulis, or any of varps posts he just sums the series of posts varp made up. I would normally say that this is a moot point, however he did opt to find it worth quoting posts in relation to redff. Why would you defend two people within one post but only bring attention to specific posts on one bandwagon? Possibly moot, but definitely not normal.

minii was hating on red, not varp. if he were hating on varp, i'd have put him in the varp category. it doesn't matter who he is hating when the hate is ill-founded given that he hasn't provided any reasons for it


I had already implied the minii bit was in reference to red. The issue was that you were using posts to defend red whereas you were not using any to defend varp. It shows a "weak" and almost unmemorable defense of a mafia roleblocker.


As for your vote of drazerk. Is he lurking and inactive? yes. However, taking the opportunity to jump and appear to try and start a bandwagon when you yourself have also been fairly lurky and inactive is well odd. You then rather than actually give reasonable responses to most people questioning you at that period you opt to do small posts that provide next to nothing. Not only that, but you appear frequently enough to "comment" on the goings on of the thread but you never leave a lasting mark on anything. The posts are very neutral and if someone wasn't looking at you they were be unmemorable.

You are a much better player than this and as such should be more active or at least much more contributing than you are now.


are you being serious right now? the current day is three hours old.

again, you are misinterpreting what i said in the precise manner that i said you would. lurking isn't scummy if you clump afking and lurking as the same thing. i already said this yet you're doing it anyway? lurking by its intended definition is scummy. realize the difference between hiding and not being there. it's the same as the difference between lurking and afking. i never lurked. you insinuating that i did is laughable.

as for your last words, thanks but i don't deserve the rep i seem to have around here. every single game i played this year (except where i subbed in ccm) i have been mafia, where it's very easy to run along with the herd, half-hiding and never calling out anyone, and nobody notices. even if you fuck up, you have teammates to cover you. it takes no skill (imho). being townie is a whole other ballgame and i'm doing my best. i guess you don't remember the games where i was townie since they were so long ago, but i routinely got lynched in them =\ hopefully it wont happen here
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:34 GMT
#596
On August 05 2011 10:33 Curu wrote:
Oh by the way, if JeeJee flips Godfather youngminii is our third scum:

Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 10:21 youngminii wrote:

If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC.


Name 1 reason as scum TAA would want to fakeclaim Vig completely unprovoked. Vig is one of the most easily self confirmable roles in a setup where KP is known, only an idiot would fakeclaim that.

Are you stupid? KP is not known, this is a semi-open setup. There are an unknown number of RBs, Vets, Medics, Vigis. Stop talking out of your ass.
lalala
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7875 Posts
August 05 2011 01:36 GMT
#597
On August 05 2011 10:31 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 10:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On August 05 2011 10:21 youngminii wrote:
To clarify:

TAA and BC spent Day 1 trying to focus fire on JeeJee.
TAA either lied or something went horribly wrong in the night actions.
BC is now trying to focus fire on JeeJee as he was one of the people being looked at yesterday.

Here is what's likely:

If TAA flips red, JeeJee should be green. BC is more likely red than green.
If JeeJee flips green, BC and TAA are both motherfucking red.
If BC flips red, JeeJee should be green. TAA is more likely red than green.

In other words, kill TAA/BC.

If you are the DT and you checked JeeJee who turned out green, claim to Mig right away who should then post this in the thread, whereupon we lynch TAA/BC.


I love that by "trying to focus fire on jeejee day 1" was actually very late into the day. Misconstrued evidence.

You also neglect to mention

If BC is green it is more than likely Jeejee is red and taa is likely green
Or if TAA is green it is more than likely jeejee is red and BC is more than likely green
Or if JeeJee flips red, TAA and BC are more than likely green.


I love that you purposely miss scenarios that are actually relevant to the argument you are trying to make.

Killing JeeJee would almost fully clear or damn two players where as killing myself or TAA doesnt fully reveal the alignment of the other two players.

Very late into the day is still during the day. Stop throwing around words to make my argument appear weaker. It still happened and you guys still tried to protect Varp.

You are absolutely aware that lynching for information comes AFTER lynching for scum. You and TAA are very likely scum in my eyes, why should I go after the information route? You are scum and you are purposely trying to weaken my argument.


I am not purposely trying to weaken your argument, its just weak. To make a fully logical argument to prove someone is scum, especially in an instance your using possible scenarios, you must account for all possible variables. Hell even if you don't at least attempt to. You clearly ignored the possibility of jeejee being scum. Why are you so sure that he is town whereas myself and taa are scum? You have yet to prove this. You have opted to use the "taa is scum because he did this, whereas bc pushed for jeejee so he must be red"

You have not posted analysis that damns me in any way, you are instead linking me to taa who you strongly believe is red. Make a serious case against me instead of wifoming or your argument is weak and lackluster. If you have some serious convictions against me push it. This isn't "i believe so and so is red so kill him" without proof or solid analysis your proposing a lynch based on nothing but a gut read.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:37 GMT
#598
18 out of 21 Players are alive.
15 out 17 Town aligned players are left.
3 out of 4 Mafia team are left.
Mafia KP is #/2 rounded up.
Mafia KP now is 2.

Where Mafia KP is down. Durr.

Anything above 2 KP = oh look he was right he's a Vig. Vig is easily self confirmable. TAA fakeclaiming Vig as scum is beyond stupid.
wat
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 05 2011 01:37 GMT
#599
EBWOP: known, not down.
wat
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 05 2011 01:38 GMT
#600
Are you serious? There is already analysis on you, I am just adding to it. Why should I rehash something that's already been said?

You're scum, I'm not going to argue with you.

If JeeJee is GF well then fuck me, but I doubt this is the case.
lalala
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