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Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia V
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Palmar
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On July 19 2011 21:13 sandroba wrote: Omg it's hard to pass up on Palmar's coaching... If you ask me anything I'll troll you. | ||
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On July 19 2011 21:23 sandroba wrote: I guess I'll join ptp then =/  Really though, this game gives preference to newer players, I'm offering to guide them through the worst newbie mistakes. At your level of play we'd benefit much more from mutual discussion than straight up coaching. Think of it as me trying to jump-start the completely new guys to a reasonable level, a level where they don't actively sabotage their faction with their posting. | ||
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On July 20 2011 17:49 Ace wrote: eh what? This is for new players only? So where do I go for small normals? you missed merc mini | ||
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I'd like to play. if that's ok with you GM? | ||
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Just be prepared that this thing is actually hard work. And don't take anything personally, this is a game. | ||
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On July 22 2011 08:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi town! I'm VisceraEyes! Some of you I might know me from the several games I've lost for my team in the past. This game I'm going to turn that around. Some requests: If you're fluent in BB formatting, PLEASE use spoilers and quotes. Text walls are easier to swallow when they're broken up. If you're not, please keep your thoughts concise and to the point. I'd like to try and keep the discussion focused this game. Obviously with such varied personalities, this is likely to be difficult. If we all do our part to keep the thread nice, we may even get to keep the All button! ^^ Probably my most sincere hope is that we avoid some of the mud-slinging and nonsense that tends to go with these games. Obviously some of us are going to get frustrated, but if we all try and primarily attack arguments, not people, I think the game will go a lot smoother. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U84EX.jpg) Nice contribution bro, I think you're legit town. | ||
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Here's a tip for mafia, when townies are about to die, just let them die. | ||
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On July 22 2011 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote: Hmmmmm...ACE with the first scummy post. Go figure.  Ace, what possible information could be gleaned from deciding who to lynch based on randomness (if that's what you're proposing?) I'm relatively new, so forgive if this is something obvious that I just haven't picked up yet... It's a great idea. Although, killing the third poster after the daypost has a far higher success-rate. | ||
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Like, I've played 8 mafia games, 5 of them we've lynched scum or 3rd party on day 1. That's far higher than 25%. Is this just some clever ploy to start a discussion or try to figure out who is going to be the scummy white knight who trashes your plan? btw, Killing ace day1 is stupid, just lynch him day 2 because the mafia will shoot him if he's not part of their team. | ||
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On July 22 2011 09:58 redFF wrote: Most people haven't even posted at all yet... As for what to do now for the newbies, just post and wait for someone to slip up/look scummy. Also please do not lie, there have been a bunch of games recently where bad townies have lied and screwed over town, so don't lie! LAL is a very extreme policy but it makes sense. I'm not suggesting LAL, but if someone lies then I will personally look at them carefully and trust them a good deal less. We have a lot of new players in this game so i encourage more experienced players to remember that there is a difference between DUMBand SCUM. Too often day 1 lynches end up with some townie getting lynched for trivial reasons when people dont realise the townie is just bad! Holy shit redFF, thanks for giving advice on how to play. Here is a tip: LAL doesn't work unless you actually maintain the illusion that you'll follow through with it. But of course, you want to have an out if at some point someone actually fucks up, so you leave a hole in your policies for bad townies, something you're most certainly going to try and convince us of when one of your scumbuddies gets under pressure On July 22 2011 11:16 redFF wrote: I've never actually seen or heard of random lynching before, well most day 1 lynches are random but outright saying they are and randomly deciding who is lynched is something i've never seen before, can you link me to a game where a random lynch has been used? It seems pretty dumb to me, because you could hit an active pro-town player just as likely as you could hit a lurking mafia. Why don't you just come flat out and say the plan is terrible? We all know it's not good, the problem is identifying which is more scummy, the idiots supporting the plan or the white knights fighting against it. But I think you're just posting random shit to make yourself look good. #vote redFF | ||
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But it's still interesting. Ace proposes terrible plan, Jacinto and VE don't like it, DragonReborn actually likes it. Like.. would scum actually take the chance? The lynch isn't really 25% chance because the mafia can co-ordinate their votes, if they so please, so I think what DragonReborn did was stupid, but probably not scummy. | ||
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On July 22 2011 23:15 DragonReborn422 wrote: what exactly did i do that is stupid oh god of mafia? You agreed with ace's plan. From town perspective it doesn't make any sense, as judging by the sample of games I've played town has more like 50%+ chance of hitting mafia on day one, so if you're town, you should by logic never agree to this plan. But I don't think you'd out yourself as mafia like that... early, so I'm inclined to believe it's bad judgement. redFF however responded in the scummiest way possible to Ace's plan, he was indecisive, tried to appear interested in the plan by asking further questions, when just thinking about the problem would lead you to understand why it's bad. That's why I'm voting for redFF, I think it's pretty obvious that he was avoiding taking a firm stance on it. Don't forget a random lynch is really the worst scenario for town (aside from the fact mafia can stack), and the entire point of the mafia game, is to increase that chance by analysis and logic. So yeah, read red's posts, realize that they don't make sense, given his experience as a player. | ||
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Anyway On July 22 2011 12:03 DragonReborn422 wrote: I'm not sure if that's a serious question. But I'll bite. We can be led down the wrong path by inexperienced townspeople or experienced mafia players or the combination of both and easily have wagons on only townspeople. With the mafia members knowing whos who, they have an advantage on day 1 to control the wagons more. This makes it look like you're perfectly fine with RL. That's a terrible idea and you should know it. And yes, I call out anyone who acts stupidly for acting stupidly. | ||
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Anyway, redFF, tell me your thoughts. Also, pyo, he needs to be shot in the face, if we default to a policy lynch, Pyo is a great one, as he refuses to commit on day 1 when he's "town". So he just self-votes or something. | ||
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DR422: tell me your thoughts on redFF. | ||
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Maybe that Jac guy was on to something. | ||
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On July 23 2011 01:21 redFF wrote: So in that first post you quoted I made a warning about lying to town because in recent games I have played/seen it has bit town in the ass. You yourself lied multiple times in PTP1 for terrible reasons and got yourself lynched... Ok, I said lying is bad but I don't want to LAL because sometimes dumb townies lie, how is that scummy? I'm just trying to lay out pro-town policies, which imo LAL is not. As for the second post, how is that scummy? It seems pretty dumb to me, because you could hit an active pro-town player just as likely as you could hit a lurking mafia. That looks like taking a stance to me, and wanting to see a game where it has been used is fair enough. I hadn't quite made a decision regarding it but yes I think it's pretty clear that we shouldn't random lynch. I really cannot fathom how you saw something scummy enough to place your vote on me in there... Hi, I'm not trying to convince you that you're scum. So instead of being so focused on yourself, why don't you tell us whom else we should lynch? Now that we've established you don't want to random lynch, start putting down ideas. | ||
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Nice. | ||
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##Unvote redFF ##Vote DragonReborn422 | ||
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So, how about it, we lynch you instead? That list was completely uncalled for, making a list like that where he calls everyone town is just his way of trying to make friends as scum. Why the fuck would you share your town reads as town? I don't really give a shit who he thinks is town, I want to know who he thinks is scum. Like, I don't even think this is a questionable lynch, that shitty list just screams that he wants to contribute, make friends, but not commit to anything. | ||
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From town perspective it doesn't make any sense, as judging by the sample of games I've played town has more like 50%+ chance of hitting mafia on day one, so if you're town, you should by logic never agree to this plan. This is brilliant, from this sentence, Ace pulls two things that simply aren't true. point a) he says I claim to speak for town. This is incorrect, I say this in a general way "Looking at any given mafia game from the perspective of the town players" would've been more accurate, but I assumed that people wouldn't try to twist things that aren't there. and point b) he says that I'm throwing around false facts, again, just not true. If people actually bother to read the sentence, you can see I specifically say "and judging by the 8 games that I have played". Any statistician will tell you the sample size is too small to really mean anything, but it's all I have, so I throw it out there. Feel free to provide more statistics. So, Ace is being guilty of exactly the thing that he has accused me of, namely putting words in people's mouth. Sure, I felt after initially reading the thread that there was more support for the RL plan than there actually was. And I wrote the post on DR without actually checking if he had explicitly suggested we RL, while in truth he had simply said he'd be fine with it. Now, that this is out of the way, I really want people to take a look at the list that DR posted, it really, really is something that strikes me as very odd. And yes town, this is Ace leading a bad lynch, I'm not still sure if it's because he is scum and this is the best thing he could come up with, or if it's because he simply didn't read/understand my posts. | ||
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On July 23 2011 03:22 DragonReborn422 wrote: What is odd about my list? Are you not accustomed to lists or do you disagree with my thoughts on the players? Please expand. How many people are we going to be able to lynch tonight? Yeah, that's right 1. Now, you say you have a heavy mafia lean on VisceraEyes, so why don't you, instead of writing a pretty bland and non-commital list, instead try build a case that might get VisceraEyes lynched? You seem perfectly happy with throwing around weak accusations and then just wobbling along in the thread. That's great, if you're scum, as you don't really have to commit to anything. And as an additional bonus, you make friends! You're basically using the oldest trick in the scumbook, if you tell someone he's town, he's likely to think you're town in turn. You then cast a vote on Trotske, fair enough, as he just proved that the's actively lurking the thread, but where is the follow-up? Why aren't you pushing him to the gallows? Either you think people are scum, or you don't. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, there's everything wrong with not trying. Thing is, I have a feeling you want to stay on the good side of as many people as possible, I think that's because you're scum. | ||
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You haven't pushed your ideas at all. | ||
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On July 23 2011 06:40 Lord Vatti wrote: Would someone give me a recap.... why are we all voting DR? RedFF i understand your reason to vote me. it makes perfect sense. I don't really have a legitimate reason for voting Palmer... Palmer just seemed suspicious to me. I know that seems scummy, but townies make mistakes so... ##unvote Palmer. I really have to learn to not make hasty decisions. i had no backing, and i apologize for the hasty vote. if i get lynched that would make sense, because i do seem rather scummy. I'm just sayin' sorry... really? is this your first game? | ||
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On July 23 2011 06:45 Lord Vatti wrote: yes. You should probably read ver's guide on how to improve, that post was bad. | ||
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The case against DR422 remains that he doesn't even commit to his own scum-reads, he's leaning heavy scum on VE and then votes for a random lurker. It's the safest possible play in the book. But then again, just like when you accused me of putting words in people's mouths and then promptly did it yourself, now you're accusing people of not reading the thread and then you do the same shit yourself again? I don't even have second thoughts anymore, I'm pretty convinced DR422 is scum. The worst part is that you call me detrimental to town, yet you defend someone on rather flimsy evidence, like there is nothing that should have you so convinced he's town... unless you of course already know his alignment, that's actually a possibilty. | ||
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On July 24 2011 06:03 Pyo wrote: Hi curu! I had a feeling that you'd be joining us. ugh I wake up from my Saturday afternoon nap to see that DR really is going to get lynched... I'll look over the last 3 pages more carefully in a sec, but I wanted to get a word in before the deadline. Am I the only one who thinks that the case against DR is that he's rubbed people the wrong way (i.e. no real case)? Then again, my scumdar hasn't been one of the best recently (I totally missed redFF and Youngminii's scum vibe in Arkham asylum). Well regardless, it's probably too late to change anything now, so I'm not going to bother voting but several of the "cases" against DR are really suspicious looking. Major FoS on them if DR flips green, and Ace is an obvious next target if DR flips red. And now we have a lynch target for tomorrow. | ||
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On July 24 2011 06:03 Pyo wrote: Hi curu! I had a feeling that you'd be joining us. ugh I wake up from my Saturday afternoon nap to see that DR really is going to get lynched... I'll look over the last 3 pages more carefully in a sec, but I wanted to get a word in before the deadline. Am I the only one who thinks that the case against DR is that he's rubbed people the wrong way (i.e. no real case)? Then again, my scumdar hasn't been one of the best recently (I totally missed redFF and Youngminii's scum vibe in Arkham asylum). Well regardless, it's probably too late to change anything now, so I'm not going to bother voting but several of the "cases" against DR are really suspicious looking. Major FoS on them if DR flips green, and Ace is an obvious next target if DR flips red. I have a problem with this post. First of all Pyo did not commit to anything at all on day one. But then he sweeps in, after waiting for long enough to make damn sure town wasn't going to back off the DR422 lynch, and tells us "Look guys, he's not scum" He also makes sure that we know his scumdar sucks, which is only a good trait if you're mafia. And finally, nice going, Ace is only a suspect if DR flips red... why? So, guys, who's your last scumbuddy, Ace, Pyo... and... ? ##Vote Pyo | ||
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But in any case. ##Unvote ##Vote Ace | ||
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There was no reason to unvote ace, unless you already knew his alignment. | ||
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On July 27 2011 07:05 Trotske wrote: OH look Ace is town what a shocker VE although this post is pretty damn stupid. | ||
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There are plenty of reasons, he tried to get me lynched on the shittiest evidence I've seen, half of it fabricated, then he just called everyone stupid and left the thread. And then the fact that he randomly decided to defend a scummy player on day 1. | ||
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Mafia can fake-claim and instantly win the game, so either you claim tonight, or you don't. | ||
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On July 27 2011 07:54 Trotske wrote: I love how you and palmer get active all of a sudden right after if there is a bad lynch tomorrow You are now both at the top of my Scum list with RedFF. 3 not so active people with little to say and once we are down to last chance lynch they get all active trying to lynch one person with very little evidence. I'm completely fine with being no1 on mafia's scumlist. | ||
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On July 27 2011 07:46 Trotske wrote: I don't think a DT should claim at all and simply if they hit a scum try to persuade people to vote for them. Mafia can just counter claim any DT or claim first and then say it was a mafia counter claim if a real DT comes along. Claiming gets us nowhere. we still don't know who to trust. That's the reason I wanna kill you, not the fact that you voted for ace. Voting for Ace was logical, telling DTs to shut up is illogical. | ||
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Has anyone gotten roleblocked at any point in the game? | ||
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##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Re-read the thread, trotske is more likely to be a newbie than actually scum, I'm pretty sure you're just going for an easy lynch, you knew all along that I was going to support an Ace lynch cause I was mad at him for that shitty day 1 analysis. | ||
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On July 28 2011 10:13 VisceraEyes wrote: In my opinion, Palmar and someone else active are scum and a lurker is scum. Trotske isn't looking good, but the fact that Palmar was trying to get him lynched early d2 speaks to me that he's misguided townie. Looking at Palmar's posts now for evidence. We're in a precarious position here...because if we lynch Palmar and he's scum, it's going to be hard to find the other scum because I led the first two lynches, not scum...so technically I'm the most suspicious. Unfortunately, I'm also town...so Palmar's partner is someone hopping on bandwagons, safe from scrutiny. I also want to point out another possibility, in the spirit of transparency. I could be way off on Palmar AND Trotske...scum could be 3 random lurkers just as easily. Especially since the thread is relatively active and only townie deaths. I'm only so suspicious of Palmar right now based on the post I just quoted...he seemed to agree with me on the Trotske tip until appruds flipped...which was someone else Palmar suspected, btw. And suddenly I'm the most scummy. Right, you're factually wrong, you're trying to turn the wagon around because we called you out on the bullshit. Yes trotske looks bad, but I realized some people had been subtly pushing him for a while. Let's break down your text, because I KNOW you're pretty good when you're town, you actually read the thread and you get your facts straight, this time around you're either painfully ignorant or you're scum. First lie: Trotske isn't looking good, but the fact that Palmar was trying to get him lynched early d2 speaks to me that he's misguided townie I never even mentioned trotske on day 2. On night 2 I said that I'd be voting for him tomorrow based on him trying to keep DTs hiding, which was retarded, but it's not incriminating so I changed my mind. Second lie: he seemed to agree with me on the Trotske tip until appruds flipped...which was someone else Palmar suspected, btw Only reason I mentioned trotske is his DT shenanigans, and I never pointed a finger at aprudds, if your memory wasn't so bad you'd know I was pushing an alternative lynch to him, although that turned out to be town too. So, I was slightly suspicious towards you, decided to check how you'd react to some pressure, and you didn't disappoint. your combination of "NO YOU ARE SCUM" and random lying hasn't exactly helped me get off your case. So my vote is staying where it is. | ||
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What would you do if someone came in and said "look guys, I checked redFF and he's mafia" Would you hang him? DTs are now useless unless they breadcrumbed their role. | ||
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At least it takes two wrong townie votes today. | ||
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The people I'm trying to convince are the rest of town. | ||
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I don't talk with mafia so I'm not replying directly to VisceraEyes. | ||
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On July 29 2011 23:56 VisceraEyes wrote: For the record, Palmar is not only refusing to defend himself, but advocating not reading something in the thread. <3 There is no reason to read things when you're trying to make up stuff that's untrue. Anyone should be able to deduce that my first post of "You're legit town bro" was sarcasm. And same with my first reply to Ace's idea. You just choose to ignore that because you're trying to bend my actions into something you can possibly paint as anti-town. | ||
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On July 30 2011 00:01 Trotske wrote: there we go that's a start, While its true that does look like sarcasm the rest of his posts makes some good points care to address those? Where are the good points. Everything VE says is true, but it's just not... anti-town. I can pull out more beautiful things. He accuses me of "Giving my team ideas"... which is just... wtf? That post was made in reference to redFF getting lynched day 1 as scum in another game. Even if this was a genuine advice, why would I post it in the thread? but it's obviously a joke. Then he accuses me of changing my mind, again, how do I defend myself to that? 1. I accuse redFF a bit 2. DR422 posts a scummy list 3. I go after DR422 somehow VisceraEyes twists this into being anti-town or scummy. Like I fully admit, I changed my mind? What do you want me to say? DR422 was not only playing in a very weird way, but he was also shitting up the thread and causing bad atmosphere. Accusing me of changing my mind is like me accusing VisceraEyes of being named after a Mars Volta tune... It's true, but it says nothing about his alignment. | ||
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And then he accuses me of being inconsistent with the reasons I'm suspicious of DR422, again, if you weren't fabricating this whole thing you would've stopped and realized that this list was bad in more than one way. I don't think I need to re-hash why that was, feel free to read my posts in VE's analysis. Like, this analysis is still very good for town. Go read it, look at what he's saying, look how he has managed to twist and turn every single thing that really is honest and logical into something scummy. This is mafia trying to finish the game today, he gave himself away when he started trying to use obvious jokes as scumtells. | ||
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I noted right back on day 1 that you seemed very enthusiastic about my sarcastic comment that I thought you were town, but I did not figure out you were scum because you agreed with my own scumreads. There are three main points in your play that gave you away. 1. Your overenthusiastic attitude back on day 1, you made like 5 posts with no content but just to give general advice and throwaway comments on how to play nice. This is great for scum because it looks like contribution but it isn't. 2. Your subtle style of pushing for Trotsky since day 2, and then immediately voting him as day 3 began. You thought you had enough support for the lynch but you didn't. You basically planned day 3 lynch before Ace even flipped. On July 26 2011 08:08 VisceraEyes wrote: K thx Trotske. When I'm done trying to get Ace lynched, you're next. Don't worry. 3. When you realized that there wasn't going to be a quiet town willing to go through with your plan and lynching trotske, you turn around and look for the next target. Now it's time to go lynch Palmar, so you write a phony analysis, based on twisting my jokes and normal posts into something scummy. ---------------------------------------------------- It's actually a fortunate turn of events that you've decided that your chances of lynching town are better with me than trotske, because I'm pretty confident in my abilities to defend myself. | ||
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But the thing is, you aren't stupid VisceraEyes, so the only possible reason you'd do what you're doing is that you're mafia. You don't actually believe that using jokes in an analysis is valid, and you don't actually believe that changing my mind is scummy. You're just trying to make it look that way. I'd much rather answer questions from people I think are actually town, as I'm not trying to convince YOU that you're scum, I'm trying to convince TOWN that you're scum. | ||
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I actually thought that anyone who read the analysis could tell that your evidence is fabricated, but Trotske wanted a clear explanation so I need to give it. | ||
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And yes, I think Pyo is scum. I don't know why you're trying to suddenly backpedal and bus him. But at the moment the case for you is so much stronger. | ||
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On June 21 2011 16:11 Ver wrote: 4) Do not do a post by post analysis EVER. I have no idea who came up with this but it's seriously silly and doesn't do anyone any good. All it does is clog up the thread with fluff, not help your case at all because it's not like mafia give themselves away with every post at all (it's the key, defining slipups, incongruities, or general patterns you are looking for, not minor quibbles), and distract your analysis severely because you are approaching someone with a verdict in hand and trying to 'prove it' or you are simply not analyzing the important things. If you find one thing that makes someone mafia, that is it, they are mafia. It doesn't matter if you find 30 things that have a chance they might be mafia, it doesn't say anything. I'm saying, the things that incriminate you are the three points that I listed up. | ||
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On August 03 2011 19:56 Ace wrote: np man, just a few more names added to the list of players I won't play a game they are in | ||
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