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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
July 21 2011 20:00 GMT
#1421
Fuck Pyo is on me
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 20:11 GMT
#1422
I don't really have a circle, just people I message. Second of all if I don't claim that I took a hit the town knows less about night actions which is bad, and if someone claims they shot me and I didn't die its very T_T although I figured it was third party or mafia who actually shot me.

I just finished reading all of youngminii's posts and I am really having trouble reading him. I second guess myself due to XLII a bit though. He's honestly just so terrible at times, but does things that are make me second guess it. He attacked redff a little bit, but wasn't involved in much of the discussion around redff/visceraeyes and ended up on Viscera eyes.

As another aside, supersoft is pretty much confirmed due to hammering redff in the last half a second of the vote.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 20:18 GMT
#1423
I currently have a confused read on youngminii, he is terrible either way, and he posts a TON of anti town shit, but at the same time I know he is bad. Parts of his posting also strike me as pushing an alternative agenda as well and that is kind of seals it for me, I am probably leaning more scum on him.

I wrote earlier how mafia really want the third party to die, and want to make the town think the third party are bad for them, when in actuality the third party is worse for the mafia. Youngminii has a few posted basically saying how we all know just how bad the third party is for town, which is completely wrong. I feel like that's the best proof I have against him for being scum. Compile that with discouraging people from using PM's properly and sheeping on Viscera with no real thought, I think its strong enough to lynch him.

I would however really appreciate other peoples thoughts however. Just so you guys know, here is how I plan to be spending rest of the day. I want to analyze this list

VisceraEyes 12
RebirthOfLegend
bumatlarge
redFF
youngminii red reading?
Coagulation
Zona
EternalMisfit
Mig
CjrNinja
Lucidity
Sevryn

since I am convinced that on this list there is going to be more than just the two reds we see on there. I want to stress the most important thing about analyzing groups of people, do NOT just look for those you deem scummy, since scummy can be a real hit or miss feeling and a decent scum can kind of stand in the middle or look okay in the eyes of an analyzer. But the real thing that helps narrow shit down is people who look REALLY town. If you are 99% sure someone is town, and 50% sure some dude is scum, you aren't going to lynch the obvious townie guy even if you aren't sure about the scummy dude.

I used that method in SNMMIV when helping kavdragon. I didn't feel too strongly about prplhz or wiggles, but I felt strongly that Palmar was town, as well as a few others. By process of elimination I had basically the entire scum team, but not because they painfully stood out as scum, just because everyone else looked WAY more town then them.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Nisani201
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1400 Posts
July 21 2011 20:24 GMT
#1424
RoL, I only counted 11 people on that list. Who is the 12th?
Enjoy your day.
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
July 21 2011 20:31 GMT
#1425
On July 22 2011 05:00 Kurumi wrote:
Fuck Pyo is on me

HIDE THE BODIES
dr Helvetica <3
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
July 21 2011 20:33 GMT
#1426
On July 22 2011 05:24 Nisani201 wrote:
RoL, I only counted 11 people on that list. Who is the 12th?

supersoft, but he unvoted and casted the deciding vote on redFF
dr Helvetica <3
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
July 21 2011 20:36 GMT
#1427
Youngminii has a few posted basically saying how we all know just how bad the third party is for town, which is completely wrong.

i don't see how you can let this guy survive
that's just
fucked

are you kidding me, what is going on
lalala
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 20:41 GMT
#1428
On July 22 2011 05:24 Nisani201 wrote:
RoL, I only counted 11 people on that list. Who is the 12th?

It was supersoft, but he switched votes for the finalization and I forgot to change the number but removed him from the list. My mistake.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 20:42 GMT
#1429
On July 22 2011 05:36 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
Youngminii has a few posted basically saying how we all know just how bad the third party is for town, which is completely wrong.

i don't see how you can let this guy survive
that's just
fucked

are you kidding me, what is going on

I had a big post explaining in detail how the third party are inherently worse for the mafia the longer the game goes. Explain in detail how I am wrong and I will explain to you why your views are twisted and manipulated by scum ideology.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Sevryn
Profile Joined September 2010
698 Posts
July 21 2011 20:44 GMT
#1430
On July 22 2011 05:18 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I currently have a confused read on youngminii, he is terrible either way, and he posts a TON of anti town shit, but at the same time I know he is bad. Parts of his posting also strike me as pushing an alternative agenda as well and that is kind of seals it for me, I am probably leaning more scum on him.

I wrote earlier how mafia really want the third party to die, and want to make the town think the third party are bad for them, when in actuality the third party is worse for the mafia. Youngminii has a few posted basically saying how we all know just how bad the third party is for town, which is completely wrong. I feel like that's the best proof I have against him for being scum. Compile that with discouraging people from using PM's properly and sheeping on Viscera with no real thought, I think its strong enough to lynch him.

I would however really appreciate other peoples thoughts however. Just so you guys know, here is how I plan to be spending rest of the day. I want to analyze this list
Show nested quote +

VisceraEyes 12
RebirthOfLegend
bumatlarge
redFF
youngminii red reading?
Coagulation
Zona
EternalMisfit
Mig
CjrNinja
Lucidity
Sevryn

since I am convinced that on this list there is going to be more than just the two reds we see on there. I want to stress the most important thing about analyzing groups of people, do NOT just look for those you deem scummy, since scummy can be a real hit or miss feeling and a decent scum can kind of stand in the middle or look okay in the eyes of an analyzer. But the real thing that helps narrow shit down is people who look REALLY town. If you are 99% sure someone is town, and 50% sure some dude is scum, you aren't going to lynch the obvious townie guy even if you aren't sure about the scummy dude.

I used that method in SNMMIV when helping kavdragon. I didn't feel too strongly about prplhz or wiggles, but I felt strongly that Palmar was town, as well as a few others. By process of elimination I had basically the entire scum team, but not because they painfully stood out as scum, just because everyone else looked WAY more town then them.

that list is just people who voted for VE right?
I voted for VE when his PM where he Claimed II without telling anyone.

RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 20:46 GMT
#1431
I know the reasoning behind voting for VE, but considering the alternative was a mafia I am sure we will find some oddballs on the list. You will get your analysis results shortly.

And yes, that is just a voting list.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
July 21 2011 21:08 GMT
#1432
I'm almost positive RoL is 3rd party now :p. If you were a vet as you claim, playing so passively and lurking like that is counter intuitive to the strengths of your role. A vet should be leading the town without fear.

You are right about 3rd party being worse for mafia late game RoL but early game when townies have a significantly higher concentration than mafia, it's much better to just get rid of them because 3rd parties help mafia get to the late game in the first place.

Brb rereading the thread one more time and I'll post some more.
Sevryn
Profile Joined September 2010
698 Posts
July 21 2011 21:15 GMT
#1433
On July 22 2011 05:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I know the reasoning behind voting for VE, but considering the alternative was a mafia I am sure we will find some oddballs on the list. You will get your analysis results shortly.

And yes, that is just a voting list.

since your being active now can you explain why you were lurking day1?
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 21:25 GMT
#1434
On July 22 2011 06:08 ketomai wrote:
I'm almost positive RoL is 3rd party now :p. If you were a vet as you claim, playing so passively and lurking like that is counter intuitive to the strengths of your role. A vet should be leading the town without fear.

You are right about 3rd party being worse for mafia late game RoL but early game when townies have a significantly higher concentration than mafia, it's much better to just get rid of them because 3rd parties help mafia get to the late game in the first place.

Brb rereading the thread one more time and I'll post some more.

The concentration is irrelevant and a red herring to this discussion. The point is the traits the third parties are hunting go parallel with those of mafia. The only reason they would hit townies more so early on is because there is less information to work with.

In any case, i'd weather the storm for the first day or so to allow the third parties to hit more mafia at that time. As I said, I am completely willing to let the third party rape lurkers/scummy people.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 21:25 GMT
#1435
On July 22 2011 06:15 Sevryn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 05:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I know the reasoning behind voting for VE, but considering the alternative was a mafia I am sure we will find some oddballs on the list. You will get your analysis results shortly.

And yes, that is just a voting list.

since your being active now can you explain why you were lurking day1?

I was busy and kept getting lazy with the thread. There is no actual excuse.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 21:50 GMT
#1436
I will share what I have for now for a few players, and I will get to the others later.
[spoiler=youngminii]Downplaying PM's, openly thinks third party is bad and town should lynch them, attacks mig for no reason. One of the first on the Viscera lynch.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=24#471
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=25#489
"If coag is town, then kurumi/rol = scum" wat?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=37#721
defends redff, tries to divert to me?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=40#797
This doesn't even make sense, contradicts with later post of "RoL is so dumb he must be scum" for the medic claim.

I really can't tell if hes bad or scummy, I keep getting mixed on him.


[quote=BumAtLarge]He seems not committing. Doesn't look particularly scummy, but doesn't look obviously townie. I know he is skilled enough to not look obvious scum, so leaning scummy because of lack of contribution.

[quote=Zona]starts off with big posts, agrees with my reasoning on lynching VE. Playing fairly okay but mysteriously goes AFK as votes start coming back around to redff? A bit odd. Was still active on TL at the time, but never bothered checking the thread. Not sure how I feel about that :/

[quote=eternalmisfit]reading posts, puts actual thought into things, seems to be trying. I am leaning town on him pretty much everything on him looks town except for his views on blacks.

These are my personal, unedited notes that I just made in word. I have an excel sheet too, but I am not the biggest fan of note taking on excel, feels awkward.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 21 2011 21:51 GMT
#1437
shit sorry.


I will share what I have for now for a few players, and I will get to the others later.
+ Show Spoiler [youngminii] +
Downplaying PM's, openly thinks third party is bad and town should lynch them, attacks mig for no reason. One of the first on the Viscera lynch.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=24#471
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=25#489
"If coag is town, then kurumi/rol = scum" wat?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=37#721
defends redff, tries to divert to me?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240299&currentpage=40#797
This doesn't even make sense, contradicts with later post of "RoL is so dumb he must be scum" for the medic claim.

I really can't tell if hes bad or scummy, I keep getting mixed on him.


+ Show Spoiler [BumAtLarge] +
He seems not committing. Doesn't look particularly scummy, but doesn't look obviously townie. I know he is skilled enough to not look obvious scum, so leaning scummy because of lack of contribution.


+ Show Spoiler [Zona] +
starts off with big posts, agrees with my reasoning on lynching VE. Playing fairly okay but mysteriously goes AFK as votes start coming back around to redff? A bit odd. Was still active on TL at the time, but never bothered checking the thread. Not sure how I feel about that :/


+ Show Spoiler [eternalmisfit] +
reading posts, puts actual thought into things, seems to be trying. I am leaning town on him pretty much everything on him looks town except for his views on blacks.


These are my personal, unedited notes that I just made in word. I have an excel sheet too, but I am not the biggest fan of note taking on excel, feels awkward.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
July 21 2011 21:52 GMT
#1438
Well I highly doubt RoL is red, as he is going to lure a shot from a certain someone. Since 3rd party people have a nice win condition that involves killing each other, I still think we should leave them alone. I see no down-side.

And how exactly did the VE situation go down? I don't mind some spotlight, but I think we should include anyone who didn't vote redff, rather then just whoever voted VE. I think the main switch happened 4 hours before vote ended, so I find it likely we could find some red amongst these. For the time being, I'll assume like everyone else that those who voted redff are clean since it was very close.

Mr.Wiggles 2
Drazerk
ghrur

supersoft 6
Liquid`Nazgul
Nisani201
VarysTheSpider
Amber[Light]
notasmurf
snotboogie

Pyo 1
CreamyButter

Liquid`Nazgul 1
Pyo

youngminii 1
TheAwesomeAll

CreamyButter 1
Kenpahi


That said, there are probably 2 or more scum amidst the VE group. I'll abuse palmer's tool to give my thoughts on mig now.

VisceraEyes 12
RebirthOfLegend
bumatlarge
youngminii
Zona
EternalMisfit
Mig
Lucidity
Sevryn
Together but separate, like oatmeal
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
July 21 2011 22:11 GMT
#1439
Oh my. RoL, why did you lie about being saved again? To hide the fact that you're vet from Mafia?

And you're denying being 3rd party, yes?

Any thoughts on Nisani and his node-graphs of lurkitude? How about the earlier lynch candidates to me and redFF? Namely supersoft, with his LITERALLY last-minute switch to redFF?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Pyo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States738 Posts
July 21 2011 22:12 GMT
#1440
On July 22 2011 05:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 05:36 youngminii wrote:
Youngminii has a few posted basically saying how we all know just how bad the third party is for town, which is completely wrong.

i don't see how you can let this guy survive
that's just
fucked

are you kidding me, what is going on

I had a big post explaining in detail how the third party are inherently worse for the mafia the longer the game goes. Explain in detail how I am wrong and I will explain to you why your views are twisted and manipulated by scum ideology.


The flaw in your reasoning behind 3rd party behavior is the same flaw in saying every active player is Town, namely WIFOM. Given that the 3rd party are immune to mafia hits (and mafia can't openly declare that they had been hitting said 3rd party member) wouldn't 3rd party players be bolder/have less fear about maintaining town standing? I mean it is in the interest of the 3rd party to try to control town since lynching is one of only 2 ways (and only way for Ras) that they can die?

While I agree that hunting 3rd party players as town isn't a bad thing (cjrNinja is evidence enough of this), I'm not so sure claiming it to necessarily be a good thing is correct. 3rd party players simply accelerate the game, I don't think that they necessarily influence it one way or another through their collective KP.

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