EPTTL Mafia XLII
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 14 2011 12:31 hiro protagonist wrote: @chaos: thats a lot of WIFOM in your questions. I think Varpulis has the right idea. ilovejonn has a good point to. Here is my opinion: 1. DTs: your discretion. 2. Medics: protect those that you think are strong players, Vets. 3. Vigs: dont put on you batman suit tonight. As for PMs, Im gonna save mine till daylight. I dont want to lose someone right of the bat. It goes without saying to save one PM for later in the game. The power of the PM choice gets stronger the longer the game goes on. Vigs can't even shoot until night 1. Saving PMs for now, seems like a logical choice. We're not sure who's going to be hit tonight, so it might be a waste to mason this quickly. I'm also not sure what relevant information can be gleaned tonight, that cannot wait 24 hours.Some people might have reasons for masoning though, so, if you have a strong reason to do so, go ahead, but otherwise, don't mason just for the sake of it. As for your second point, I'd say that you should probably use at least one of your mason choices earlier on in the game. Yes, your choice becomes stronger later in the game, but you will gather more information, and it will be easier to scum hunt, the earlier you start talking with someone. PMs aren't just for talking to other townies and laughing together about how green you are, they're also for scum hunting, and applying pressure to people. Early in the game, there won't be many obvious scum, so it's a good time to probe people for who they think look scummy, and what their reasoning is. Also, @Varp DTs don't necessarily need to mason themselves with greens. Firstly, they can't even be sure they're green until the GF is dead, and then, they still shouldn't role-claim, unless there's a damned good reason too. This is because, even if someone's green, they're still human, and a liability to accidentally leak your role. Better safe than sorry, in my opinion. So, mason greens to collaborate on analysis, but mason people you aren't sure of, to get a better read on them, as a tool for scum-hunting. Also, a general note for DTs (And other blues): Please don't needlessly claim If someone comes back as red, look at their posts, and build an analysis. Push for their lynch, but don't claim if you don't have to. I'm saying this, after playing in PTP, where the entire town began needlessly role-claiming. Mafia loves that, please don't do the same thing in this game. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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There's also the situation where no DT checks you, or you are GF, and you claim to have been checked. No DT will counterclaim you, as they don't know if other DTs have claimed to you to not. Then, all blue roles claim to you, and instant carnage for town. Any plan that involves mass claims early into the game is bad. If you have a blue role, use your own discretion and act intelligently. @BC I can agree to that Zodiac list, and I don't think there's any changes I'd make to it right now. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 14 2011 13:44 Scamp wrote: I'm already sick to death of the talk about the mason system going around so far. Is it really that important to save your mason choices for later and/or not use any early? Quite personally I find the whole mason thing to be useless. People really seem hung up on it so maybe there's something about it I'm not getting. What can you accomplish with it? You get a nice town circle going? I already know of a place the town circle can talk, it's called the thread. Everyone in the circle has to be a confirmed townie, and if you're a confirmed townie then everyone knows it. Obviously this mason thing can change if you're a DT and if you're a DT I hope you're smart enough to use it well. Well, in my eyes you can use PMs to scum hunt. Pressure people, ask them for their reads. I think it's harder for mafia to be upfront and sincere in PM, than it is in thread, when they have more time to think up their responses and possibly get others on their scum team to edit. You can also look for scum tells, like if what they're saying in PM is different from what they're saying in the thread. At least, that's how I see it. Less of a place to be green together, and more of a place to scum hunt. It's also good to bounce analysis back and forth. This can be used for scum hunting too, as it's hard for mafia to come up with good reasons someone's mafia, and if they're town, it's nice to get a second perspective on things. However, analysis should still be posted in thread, for the benefit of town at large. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 14 2011 13:50 Scamp wrote: Oh hey I made it on a list. Did sandroba say that it discourages mafia from killing people on the list? Because I'm pretty sure BC said for medics to protect people not on the list, thus the people who are on the list are wide open. I think the point, is that there's likely to be one, if not more, mafia on the list. Then, as people on the list die, the others start to look more suspicious. Mafia might not want to shoot into the list, as it outs their own members. As well, I believe it's mostly for putting pressure on the people who figure on the list, as they are expected to contribute to town, and will be scrutinized. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 14 2011 13:49 sandroba wrote: @wiggles I described this scenario on my original plan. If I'm mafia 1)I'm risking to be insta outed by a DT check 2)If I lie and claim someone checked me, if there is a DT who actually checked me (which I have no way of knowing since he won't mason me if I return red) he can istantly out me as mafia. So no, in that scenario there is no possible bad outcome for town. Pick GF. Say that a DT checked you as green. No other DT in his right mind will counter-claim, as he will have seen the same thing, or he wouldn't have checked you in the first place. All blues claim to you. You're mafia. Claim green. It's a gamble, but if no DT checks you, then you get all the dumb blues claiming to you. If a DT did check you, then he needs to counter-claim. Worst-case scenario for scum is a 1 to 1 trade with a DT. No. It's a bad plan for town. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 15 2011 15:09 sinani206 wrote: youngminii: Stop metagaming. Or at least if you have to, don't use it as your only argument. I can see why would be useful in some situations, but with a N0 start, playstyles will be drastically different. It's a good start for early pressure, but don't make it your only argument against anyone. ilovejonn: youngminii is the only one accusing you... Why are you responding with such a long argument? You should ignore accusations like that and just look for more scum. The fact that you are even responding at all is kind of scummy. Just ignore pressure accusations like that and scumhunt. No need for this defense. On June 15 2011 15:27 sinani206 wrote: Playstyles will be different. The fact that you have a chance of dying without knowing how much you have to defend yourself will change your playstyle, and affect it through the game. I know that discussion is necessary, but I still feel that time and brainpower are better spent scumhunting than defending yourself. Look for people that were scummy during the night time and pressure them. The pressure on ilovejonn is based on metagame and that is pretty much worthless with the PMs and N0 start. This game is different and you have to be able to accept that. You can't use metagaming as an easy way out to actually analysing players. On June 15 2011 16:13 sinani206 wrote: youngminii, I acknowledged that you were scumhunting and that ilovejonn wasn't. Those were the two bases for my previous posts. I was simply urging you to go beyond metagaming, which you have done, and for ilovejonn to start actually scumhunting, since he seems to have enough time to defend himself. You have done what I urged you to do and that is good. ilovejonn, however, has not. He is, even after my posts, defending himself more and more and this is scummy behavior. I apologize, youngminii, for not explaining myself clearly. You are doing fine. It is ilovejonn who needs to up his game. On June 16 2011 03:41 sinani206 wrote: Hey, guess what? You're on the Zodiac List. Let's see some better analysis out of you. This is bandwagon shit which might have been overlooked had you not been on the list, but since you are, I feel the need to pressure you a little. You posted obvious info here while accusing him of posting obvious info. Step up your game. ##Vote: Sinani206 Placing my vote here for now. For someone constantly calling out for scumhunting, you sure haven't done very much of it yourself. You also call out for more content in posts, while not providing any of your own. I judge people by their actions, not their intents, and when your actions don't line up with your intents, that looks scummy to me. Prove me wrong, and I'll consider changing my vote. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Impervious Node hiro protagonist GGQ grassgiraffe (Likely Modkill, no posts) mig LandenC (1 post in game) Jacinto (1 post in game) Lazorbear (1 post in game) RebirthofLegend This list actually makes me a little sad, because more than half of these people have played before, or are veterans, but we still have terrible activity. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 16 2011 13:43 aidnai wrote: Wiggles: I cleverly hid that list in the post at the top of the page ^^ Don't forget sandroba, demorcerf, and impervious though. As for the day's plan: I don't mind remaining a discussion/lynch target for the moment. If nothing else, my big mouth today should give others SOMETHING to give an opinion on. Oops, haha. :p I'm going to go to bed soon, but I hope there's some more discussion while I sleep. I don't really get the case against aidnai, besides that he was a little spammy/off-topic. After those accusations though, he's seemed to shape up his posting for the most part, and gotten back on track. ILJ's responses to pressure have seemed a bit odd, like others have said. I'm keeping my vote on Sinani for now, until he comes back, and gives me some kind of reason to change it. What he was doing, is the same as someone saying we need more activity, while continuing to lurk themselves, it just looks scummy to me. It wasn't a one-off thing either, it was a constant insistence, and thus my vote. So, to respond to aidnai, a townie, would call for scum-hunting, but at least would also try to do some of their own. From a scum perspective, it's great to call for scum-hunting, and then do none. Then, when day 1 is a waste, and there's no analysis, he can go back to his posts and tell us how he said we should have scum-hunted, but didn't. @hiro: Let's not get back into discussing San's plan. I did that in PTP, and wasted more than half a day of town discussion just arguing about it. Hope this post makes sense, I'm a little buzzed right now. :p Also, Vancouver looks like a war zone right now. -_- | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Sinani: Of the three lurkers, which do you think is scummiest, and why? Or are none of them scummy? Just give me your thoughts on them in general. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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If you're 90% sure that grass is going to flip town, then why are you voting for him? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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ILJ seems to have come back in full force, and I'm going to be taking my vote off of him. His recent posting makes me believe that he's likely to be green. There's also been a new candidate, who's name has been raised as a potential lynch target, Hiro. However, I'm not sure that he's mafia either, based off the "slips" people are saying he's made. I don't think that he's scum, more so than pushing for policy lynching inactives, in a very badly worded way. GG still hasn't shown up, or made any contributory posts. That said, keeping people like him around, who will be impossible to read, isn't going to help us in this game. So, instead of voting for two people I find likely to be green, I'm going to switch my vote to GG, who I see as more a 50-50 chance of being red, and who is impossible to read otherwise. ##Unvote: ilovejonn ##Vote: GrassGiraffe | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 17 2011 11:05 ~OpZ~ wrote: Touche...I really don't care myself at this point...I still find ILJ suspicious. Hiro too. Just ILJ is actually posting names, just not following through with them. So fuck it. And why are you looking at me Wiggles? Lol...I very vehemently pushed for ILJ earlier, but given short attention span, and ILJ showing up with something MODERATE, I was fine going after someone else who posted poorly. Honestly they all were probably poor lynch choices, but I like controversy over a easily bandwagoned inactive lynch, which is all grassgiraffe is. Fuck them guys. What? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
However, that makes it look even odder for GGQ. What he essentially did today, is throw away his vote, instead of voting for GG who would have been his choice out of the three, he kept it on Imp, who was either getting modkilled, or in any case, wasn't going to be lynched. So, his actions don't match up with what he was saying. Why not stand by your opinion, GGQ? FOS On another note, the same thing looks odd for Hiro changing his vote to pull the hammer on ILJ so close to the deadline. At the time, it was six votes ILJ, and six votes GG, with ILJ to be lynched, and Hiro only had 5 votes. To have been killed, he would have needed two people to hop onto his wagon, so his nervousness and voting ILJ simply to "save" himself, looks very selfish, if not scummy. He wasn't in any danger, but still ensured ILJ's lynch. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 18 2011 04:45 hiro protagonist wrote: No, Wiggles, It would have only took one person to switch there vote from ILJ to insure my death. I did not want to be the victim of a last minute vote switch. Hell, youngminii all ready said that he wanted to change his vote me... In that case it would have been tied, 6-6, and GG would have been lynched. There wasn't a good reason to change your vote, except to ensure your own survival, which wasn't even in that much danger. So, it has to be put down to nervousness. But then, why are you so nervous? Why was your vote on GG in the first place, and why did you switch to ILJ? Did you think ILJ was scummy? Then why didn't you vote him initially? If you were town, you would want to lynch scum, not another town so that you can live, so why the switch? What made you want to make sure that ILJ died as compared to yourself, or GG? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 18 2011 05:57 sandroba wrote: @wiggles It's my read on RoL. Do you want me to argue why I think he's town? I don't see that being productive. Well, if it's just based off a read, then alright. I'm just asking why you think he's worth protecting. For me, I wouldn't protect him, first because I have no read on him, and secondly, because he isn't contributing. I say, protect active people, and protect analyzers. Those are the people most likely to attract hits, and RoL is neither at this moment. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 18 2011 06:32 sandroba wrote: okay so who would you protect instead? If I were a medic? aidnai, youngminii, maybe someone else. Blues should use their own discretion though. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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I'm going to wait a little bit to comment on the night kills, as Imp looks like he might have been a vigi shot. Also, if you've been PMing any of them, and have relevant information, it might be nice to share. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 19 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote: Well RoL, I really don't think you are scum, because you are acting too controversial and reckless, claiming multiple shit and atracting attention to yourself, and that's the exact oposite of how scum usually behave imo. However, people are right that you have been useless so far, so how about you share with us your 3-4 scum suspects and do some analysis? You are saying ILJ lynch was retarded but you did not try to stop it. Also how are you supose to be able to "scumhunt in pm land" if you don't even have time to read the fucking thread? It's kind of hard to defend you when you do nothing to defend yourself. That's not a good reason to judge whether he's town or scum. In fact, I think that's the very definition of WIFOM. I'm interested in seeing his scum suspects though, as that would probably be one of the first real stances on people he'll have taken this game. (Besides Kenpachi, lol :p) | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 19 2011 06:03 sandroba wrote: That's not wifom, wifom is arguing the other way around. That's just how scum normally behave. It's not certain to me that he's not mafia, but makes it more unlikely. Scum normally behave like A. Suspect is behaving like B. Thus, Suspect must be town. OR Scum normally behave like A. Scum knows that scum normally behave like A. Scum acts like B instead. Town thinks Scum is town. It's basic WIFOM. That's like saying in PYPI, Chezinu is acting really crazy, thus he must be town. Ace is being forward and direct, thus he must be town. You have to look at his actions by themselves, and judge them for how they work in the game you're playing. You can't just compare everyone in every game to your expected behaviour for scum and make your calls from there. Sure, it might be a start, but if all scum acted like scum, then this game wouldn't be very hard, would it? That's why I'm interested in seeing RoL's views, because that will let me see his actual thought processes. Right now, I have a null read, starting to lean a bit more towards scum, simply because he hasn't done anything all game, until very recently, and it was starting to look scummy with constant delaying tactics. @RoL If you don't feel comfortable releasing a scum list, are you going to make a fuller case on syllogism? I just want to see where you're coming from now, because the only read I can make is from lack of content, which won't ever be very strong. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 20 2011 04:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote: @Sinani What are your thoughts on the two major candidates, syllogism and hiro protagonist? Day 1, you stuck a vote on Kenpachi, who was most likely not going to be lynched. Now, you stick a vote on Node, who hasn't even posted today. I'm not going to question the vote at this moment (though it's silly to pressure someone who isn't there), but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the other candidates. I'm also expecting you to change your vote by the end of the day, to a major candidate. It's throwaway to just stick a vote on a random lurker. If you wanted to make a case against Node, that would be fine, but if you're not trying to get him lynched, I don't get why you're voting for him. As for the two major candidates today, syllogism, and hiro, I'm actually liking both the cases presented so far. For the moment, I'm going to put my vote on syllogism. This is because between him and hiro, hiro's defense seems more legitimate, whereas syllogism simply calls RoL's analysis bad an doesn't address any of his actual points. It seems like he's just hoping he can slough off the accusations against him, and that we'll forget about it. ##Vote: Syllogism | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 20 2011 13:01 sandroba wrote: RoL, why are you asking for DT checks on people on hiro's lynch while asking for a vig shot on hiro? That's like you are already assuming he will flip green. What the hell is your logic here? Asking for a vig hit on hiro, means he thinks he's red. Asking for DT checks on those people, shouldn't have anything to do with Hiro's alignment. If you want to know their alignment, you want to know their alignment. If Hiro flips green, that doesn't make everyone on his lynch mafia, and if he flips red, it doesn't make everyone on his lynch town. Mafia split their vote amongst candidates, most of the time. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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I'm asking this, because your "trap" and it's results seem a little weird. There's a couple things wrong with it, and I'd like you (Mataza) to clarify: 1. Mafia would want to know what kind of blue Mataza was. They don't want to waste a hit on a vet (like they did), and they don't want to shoot a hatter if they don't know his bomb target. Did RoL ever press you or Sandroba for your specific role? This is a big deal, because I expect if RoL were mafia, he would be smart enough to try to manipulate you, than just shoot indiscriminately when he hears blue. I'm also asking because San had a strong town read on RoL, so it would be easy for RoL to press him for information if he wanted. 2. Why is Sandroba's death related to your role? It doesn't make sense to me, for mafia to shoot Sandroba just to tie up "loose ends". There's a chance any townie can get shot, so mafia shooting you shouldn't make RoL instantly look suspicious. Townies get shot, and I'm sure he could have explained that to Sandroba. So, I don't get the "scum master plan" you're proposing here. If scum wanted to kill you for a blue slip, all they needed to do was shoot you, and someone else. There's no need to silence Sandroba. @RoL Would you mind sharing any of your PM's with Sandroba? I want to see the "blue crumbing", rather than just take Mataza's and Sandroba's word that it was explicit. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 22 2011 08:11 Mataza wrote: @Mr. Wiggles. 1. To my knowledge no pressure at all. I believe it´s an equally valid method to feign no interest as to keep everyone on a "need to know" basis. Pressuring for a role through another person is an arduous task and might be interpreted as fishing. By not fishing no one would have a reason to tell that to "Mason #2" They were just riding high on 3 bluesnipes in 2 days. Well, he could have just asked what you were hinting to Sandroba. You said San went to him because he thought your claim was suspicious. Of course, I don't know the exact nature of their relationship, but if he trusted RoL enough to run to him at the first sign of suspicious behaviour, to tell him you were blue, RoL probably could have pushed him for a bit more information on San without attracting too much suspicion. There is a lot of risk involved, in just shooting a "blue". With the only flips so far being detectives and medics, chances are you'd be shooting into a hatter or vet. I don't see scum wanting to take a gamble when they've had relatively smooth sailing, it just seems weird. How do you know how strong Sandrobas townread on RoL was? From Night 1: On June 18 2011 05:21 sandroba wrote: Medics: -RoL -Aidnai -Wiggles -Varpulis -BC On June 18 2011 05:57 sandroba wrote: @wiggles It's my read on RoL. Do you want me to argue why I think he's town? I don't see that being productive. He thought he was town enough to warrant medic protection, so he must have had a decently strong read. You don't ask for medic protection on people who aren't doing anything unless you have a pretty strong read. 2. Look for my blueslips. I dare you to find condemning ones. I am very different from the other blue snipes in behaviour. There´s still a chance for coincidence but it´s miniscule. See, if you would tell Xx that you find Yy suspicious, because Yy is claiming blue in a weird way to you and the following night Yy drops dead, woudln´t you doubt Xx too? Wouldn´t you find it at least curious and tell all your other masons? What you are proposing is about as likely as your own explanation in PTP, that you got framed and your target got busdriven to the on-death alignmentrevealer, all in one night. I´m not saying it´s impossible, but you should go buy a lottery ticket if it happens. I'm not sure why you're talking about Blue-slips. How do you know that mafia were shooting at you as a blue-snipe? How do we know that mafia have been trying to blue-snipe at all? It's all conjecture, as we don't know scum's motivations for their kills. We're just assuming, that since blues are coming up dead, that mafia must be blue-sniping. However, this isn't water-tight reasoning. I was masoned to aidai before he got modkilled, and on day 2 we talked a little about who we thought scum might be. One of the people we talked about, was Hiro. What I told aidnai, was that Hiro was either red, or a bad blue. After the events of the day, I was more convinced it was bad blue, that scum, so my vote landed on syllogism. It turned out I was right about Hiro. So, for example, if aidnai hadn't been modkilled, and hiro had shown up shot today, would I be more suspicious of aidnai? Not really. He knew that I thought hiro might be blue, but my read on him from his previous actions was that he was town. Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not going to relate a death to something I said, unless it happens more than once, and even then, I'd try to back it up with some other kind of analysis. You also side-stepped the question of why Sandroba had to be killed. Sure, he might have been a bit more suspicious of RoL, but one person you've talked about dying doesn't make someone scum, like I've said. On a general note, and it's funny you bring it up, town is starting to act a lot like it did in PTP. It thinks it's caught scum, so it's just tunneling. There's no analysis yet, just this "trap", which I think isn't anything at all, and you guys are all convinced that RoL is scum, and are already at a point where you won't listen to anything anyone says. Town did this in PTP, and they got absolutely raped. There was confusion that entire game, and town didn't successfully finger a single mafia through analysis. They just caught the scent of blood in the water and went crazy, while mafia sat back and laughed. I'm actually surprised that a lot of the vets are letting this happen and are just sheeping along. Personally, I agree with RoL's analysis of YM, so that's where my vote's going for now. ##Vote: Youngminii | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 22 2011 09:25 youngminii wrote: wiggles i'm curious as to why you put so much effort into defending RoL then you make one line saying 'i agree with this guy' especially when: surely you'd have to have thought i was pretty townie if you wanted a medic to use their save on me i don't want this to be ignored, answer it when you're here On day 1, it looked like you were contributing and adding analysis. That's where my initial read came from, a combination of activity+contribution. Same thing with aidnai. The reads weren't incredibly strong, but were where I would place a protect with the information available to me night 1. After night 1 though, my read changed, as I started to see the pattern of pushing for lynches in a way in which you can't be held accountable when we lynched into town. This can be seen with starting the Day 1 ILJ lynch and then calling him green while keeping your vote on him, pushing for RoL on day 2 and starting a bandwagon, before saying it's a crap shoot, and now on day 3 asking for people to lynch lurkers to look reasonable if RoL flips green while later flopping to wanting to kill him. I didn't feel the need to add much in my last post, as the analysis by RoL is already pretty thorough. As for why I'm defending him? Because I think he's town and there isn't a great case against him, just two mafia hits and conjecture. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Your plan "worked", but it's flawed from the get-go. Firstly, RoL claims he never saw anything saying you were blue. Sandroba said he "crumbed" it, so until RoL shares his PMs with San around that time, the fact he knew you were blue is dubious at best. Second, you have no idea what scum are trying to do with their kills. Maybe they're shooting active people? They've also been killing off vets slowly. Until they tell you, you can't know what scum are shooting for, so whether or not you "slipped" in thread is irrelevant, mafia could still have had a reason to shoot you. Third, you still haven't given me a reason for why Sandroba should have been shot. You argue about most efficient use of scum resources. The most efficient use of scum resources in the case of RoL being mafia and knowing you were blue would be to shoot you, and then shoot someone else who was a high priority target. Going for a couple hours now, be back later. | ||
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On June 22 2011 11:53 sinani206 wrote: Back from the Grand Canyon! It was quite fun. Spent some time with my family, and now I get to go back to living in my room.  Of the 8 voting for RoL (not including me): 1 (Mataza) proved he was Mafia with the whole PM thing. (no shit) 1 (GGQ) voted without posting in the thread 6 voted with a post such as "good evidence" or something like that. Not scummy at all, considering the circumstances. I propose someone shoots GGQ tonight because he hasn't really contributed at all and killing inactives is the vigilante's job. GGQ has been passing by with 1 to 2 posts a day, and everyone has overlooked that. So I will be voting for RoL today and hopefully someone shoots GGQ tonight. ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend Does anyone else find sinani to be incredibly scummy as well? And can you clarify if the bolded part is sarcasm? "Mataza brought forward a "trap" that shows RoL is scum. Mataza is also scum. The people agreeing with Mataza's conclusions aren't scummy even though he's scum? (Or is that sarcasm? Doesn't really matter though) I will vote RoL based off the "evidence" someone I think is scum brought forward. Jumping on the bandwagon" That makes perfect sense... -_- | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Also, consider this: Scum on the chopping block will claim vigilante (Even though they'll have to implicate more members or fake a double stack in order to make their hit look real) A vigilante on the chopping block will claim vigilante It's a null-tell at best, and saying it makes him look scummy is silly. If he's scum or a vig, he's going to claim. On June 22 2011 17:47 youngminii wrote: ok there's absolutely no way i'm letting you live today just wait until the game is over and you'll see that your tunneling of me was terrible if not horrific once we kill you maybe we'll FINALLY get to tackle the lurkers On June 22 2011 17:55 youngminii wrote: Okay here's the lowdown for anyone tuning in that doesn't understand/doesn't wanna sift through pages of horseshit. The following may or may not be in chronological order. - I want to focus on lurkers, primarily LandenC and demorcerf - Mataza claimed Vet and that he was hit. He also claimed to have set up a plan with Sandroba (who is now dead) - This plan was sprung and apparently paints RoL as scum - Mataza is absolutely sure that the plan went off, RoL denies taking the bait while Mataza claims Sandroba made absolutely sure RoL took the bait - BC thinks Mataza is making this all up in an elaborate plan set up by the mafia - RoL posts an analysis where he believes that I am mafia - RoL claims Vig, however just last night he posted: - RoL claims he was 'tricking' the mafia Basically it's coming down to lynching RoL based on Mataza's plan, his slip up with the Vig claim and his past history I guess, or me based on RoL's analysis. Keep in mind the same tunneling style that RoL used in the previous day's syllogism lynch. Two posts, less than 10 minutes apart. "I'm going to kill RoL, but say I want to focus on the lurkers, so when RoL flips town I can just say we should have focused on the lurkers" Is no one else seeing this? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 23 2011 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I was under the impression that alignments are randomly generated. Is that not the case? It depends on the host. I think they're normally randomly generated, but may be changed by the host for balancing purposes. Say, me, RoL, BC, Node, YM, and OpZ were all mafia, the game would be imbalanced due to the relative experience level of the players on the scum team compared to the rest of town, so the host would change it a bit. At least, that's how I think it works. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 23 2011 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Balance cannot be used as far as I can see. Anyone got anything else? Time is ticking. Yeah, using balance as an argument for alignment is really weak. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 23 2011 10:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh...I might as well say it....I'm dying tonight. I've had a bomb on BC since Night one.... Hmmm? Do you mean mafia's going to shoot you? Or you're going to suicide into someone? You're keeping the bomb on BC, or are you telling us because you're moving it? Also, what made you want to claim, and aren't you afraid of RB? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 23 2011 10:39 ~OpZ~ wrote: Nope. Don't care anymore...Just don't care. Plain and simple. Lmao. No one's claimed Role Block yet, so if the RB'er out there, the mafia ain't been using him. But hey, that doesn't mean he aint right? Sup Wiggles! Party at your house tonight? Sure thing. :p Just wondering, cause it seemed pretty random and out of the blue. There hasn't been tons of pressure on you, and as far as I can see, no one's said they're going to shoot you either. So, the message looked kind've cryptic to me. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 23 2011 10:56 ~OpZ~ wrote: They shoulda role blocked Hiro then...lmao...or mataza if you knew he was blue and you are mafia as they say... Didn't realize flamewheel changed RB'er for this game... Can't block a vet's life. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 23 2011 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote: They didn't know he was vet, right? Right? That wasn't a scum-slip, right? Right? Huh? He asked that if RoL were red and so scum knew Mataza was a vet, why didn't they just role block him? I said that vets can't be role blocked. What's the slip here? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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@RoL If you're a vig announce your hit a couple minutes before the day post if possible If you're scum, show up dead in the day post, or shoot one of your team mates, please. :p | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On June 24 2011 03:34 Mataza wrote: This is the first time that anyone ever argues it may be coincidence. Now this can´t explain the bluesnipe quote. If there is anything one thesis cannot cover you are allowed to go one level higher on complexity. I've been arguing it's coincidence the entire time? If I say RoL is town, and you are a veteran, what other explanation can I give? Unless you're scum, you don't know what scum were planning on doing with their shots. Also, what do you mean "bluesnipe quote"? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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Maybe they shot you because you're active? Maybe you're talking to one of them in PM and said something that warranted a shot? Maybe they just think that you were a threat at that point in time? Maybe they think you're a strong player? Maybe they wanted to cast suspicion on someone? I'm not going to comment more, because it's a complete joke and a waste of time. If you want, give me concrete reasons for why everyone else was shot in this game, and then we can laugh together when we're completely wrong because we don't know why scum shot someone unless it's blatantly obvious like claiming DT, until they tell us. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Sinani206: Most of his posts are useless one-liners, or filled with inanity, so I'm going to avoid most of those. His general posting activity has been as follows: Decently active day 1, prompted partially by being called scummy and a small bandwagon being formed. Less active day 2, with his activity declining as time went on. Complete lurker from then on out, he's picked up a bit recently, but again, it's been mostly useless spam. Reasons I think he's scummy: On June 15 2011 12:05 sinani206 wrote: There's no reason to post N0. There's nothing to discuss and there's no reason why anyone should be posting at all. Telling people who to check, shoot, bomb, and kill just allows for WIFOM and confusion which help the mafia. Nothing good can come out of posting N0. Telling people not to post N0, after N0 is already over. An attempt to chastise town while simultaneously making himself look like a voice of reason. Useless advice at that point, and it only came out after being called on for not posting for the first 24 hours of the game. He then continued day 1, by continuously calling for scum hunting to be done while pointing fingers at various veterans without providing any semblance of an analysis himself. I called him out on it, and after that he went pretty quiet, not commenting on anything I said and completely sidestepping the issue. This is around where he began his subsequent posting behaviour of very short (often one-line) posts. On June 20 2011 00:06 sinani206 wrote: I'm at the Grand Canyon and have really bad internet, so I can only post like once every few hours, but Node is being really inactive for being on the Zodiac List. ##Vote: Node Votes for Node, instead of either Syllogism or Hiro, or even any other player with any semblance of an analysis against them. This is the same as his voting habits day 1, voting for Kenpachi instead of any other candidate, and then only because Kenpachi's posting was bad (lol). It looks like someone afraid to commit to an opinion, so instead taking an easy road out. Doesn't want to be held accountable for whatever the lynch target flips. On June 22 2011 11:53 sinani206 wrote: Back from the Grand Canyon! It was quite fun. Spent some time with my family, and now I get to go back to living in my room. Of the 8 voting for RoL (not including me): 1 (Mataza) proved he was Mafia with the whole PM thing. (no shit) 1 (GGQ) voted without posting in the thread 6 voted with a post such as "good evidence" or something like that. Not scummy at all, considering the circumstances. I propose someone shoots GGQ tonight because he hasn't really contributed at all and killing inactives is the vigilante's job. GGQ has been passing by with 1 to 2 posts a day, and everyone has overlooked that. So I will be voting for RoL today and hopefully someone shoots GGQ tonight. ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend This was from the last day. I've already made a post, saying why I think it's scummy, but I'll reiterate a little. Basically, this shows that he's willing to jump on the bandwagon of a possible townie, without any reason behind it. The entire post just looks like an excuse to jump on the RoL wagon, and shows that he hadn't even been paying close attention to the thread. On June 25 2011 05:20 sinani206 wrote: I comes after H, I think. I'm quite safe (last). DeMorcerf seems pretty scummy anyway, I guess. This post might be meant to be joking, but it still looks scummy to me. Of all the lurkers, he thinks he won't be focused on, and instead just pushes for the one the bandwagon looks like it will be on. On June 25 2011 10:06 sinani206 wrote: RoL I'm not sure about him at all. He attacked Kenpachi, Syllogism, and youngminii, who all flipped Townie. However, he defended opz and hiro protagonist, who both flipped Mad Hatter. His posting has seemed scummy is places, but in others it seems he is a misguided townie. However, Mataza attacked him for being Mafia because of the whole PM circle thing. -3 for attacking 3 Townies +2 for defending 2 Mad Hatters -2 for early scummy/trolling play +4 for good analysis lategame -2 because of the PM circle thing +6-7=-1 Slightly scummy, but not enough for a lynch today. (hey! im a math person, okay?) Another example, of a bad post with bad reasoning. How he determines RoL's alignment, isn't very good, and is in fact useless for gaining any information on Sinani himself.It's a post meant to make him look like he's contributing while really adding no new information to the thread. So conclusion: -Posts are mostly useless -Begins day 1 calling for scum hunting (while doing none himself) and chastising town to look like he's contributing while he's not. -When called out on the hypocrisy of his actions, he avoids talking about it, and instead disappears. -He's afraid to commit to an opinion the first two days, instead opting for voting someone not likely to be lynched, thus denying any information we might have gotten from his opinions. -The next two days he show a great willingness to jump on bandwagons with little or bad reasoning. -Posts with little content that don't show his own thoughts while trying to look like he is providing new content. -Avoids responding to any pressure. Probable Scum Basically, he looks like a newbie scum who's afraid to show commitment to an opinion/stance and is too afraid to respond to pressure for fear of showing his true colours. He either takes an easy way out where it's hard to get information about him, or jumps on whatever looks like the easiest bandwagon with bad reasoning. ##Vote: Sinani206 That's where my vote's going for now, until I look at more people and see if someone looks scummier. I'd like to see an actual case on some of the other lurkers, instead of just calling them out and randomly voting amongst them. Mataza's town, I think RoL is town, have to look at most other people. Good night.  | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
@GGQ I've already given my justification for RoL being town or Mataza's "trap" not being strong enough early last day cycle. Just look at his analysis and how he's trying to scum hunt. I might be wrong, but mafia aren't normally that convinced that they're right. I'd also like you to actually respond to my analysis instead of just shrugging it off. I don't even know what you're talking about with Sinani having the balls to post. Of the lurkers, it only looks like shraft is actually saying anything this cycle, unless posting images and one liners counts as contributing. On June 26 2011 07:23 sinani206 wrote: Well, as everyone seems to be voting for RoL anyway, I might as well, because he seems relatively scummy. ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend Once again hopping on the easy bandwagon. My vote stands. | ||
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GG guys. :p Anyone interested in the quick-topic: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/yqEe3beDbun | ||
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On June 26 2011 16:25 Mataza wrote: Bam! I guessed the millers right, lol. Some things here happened really strange. I caught BC because I thought RoL was scum. I was sure that Wiggles and RoL wouldn´t be same team as Wiggles reacted to my accusation by sheeping RoL´s YM lynch without a second thought. I had Jacinto for a moment, also GGQ, but then the RoL incident happened, which led to BC <.< This shit was bananas, don´t deny it. I didn't really sheep his accusation though. I was just the first one to say your "trap" wasn't going to work and stuck my vote on YM cause there was an analysis, and because it was made by RoL. Those two points were important to me, because I knew RoL was going to flip green/blue, so by sticking my vote on the person he made an analysis on, I made myself look aligned with him. At least that's how I see it. Unfortunately, it was a lot of the lurkers who sheeped, and ended up voting with RoL, and actually killing YM. In the end, your plan didn't work, because RoL was green. :p I'd like to hear from Sandroba what he actually said to RoL too, because I'm interested if he actually said you were blue or not, haha. Also, as far as I remember, none of our hits N0 and N1 were blue snipes either. :p | ||
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On June 27 2011 07:06 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Somewhere in here the "Slip" is quoted. It's something about Mataza being interested in the sandroba PM plan which was supposed to infer he was blue. It was a PM that was quoted to me. I never even realized it was supposed to be a blue slip/tell. Oh, haha. So tat actually is what the slip was supposed to be? Not very strong then, as far as laying a trap goes :p | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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In general, I like the PM mechanic. It's more limiting and strategic than free PMs, which I think promotes more creative and deeper play, and also deters a lot of circle forming, or at least makes it more risky, as if mafia know whoever the central person is, they can shut it down. Maybe something to consider if not a lot of people like this format is a "refunding mason" sort of mechanic, where if your mason contact dies you are either immediately (or after a delay) refunded your mason to use again. That might solve some problems of the risk inherent in early masonings (though I personally kind of like the risk/reward dynamic that exists already) That said, I might think differently of it from a town perspective, as I didn't need to make heavy use of it this game, and because I was mafia. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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European Countries for 200$. | ||
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