TL Mafia XLII
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On June 14 2011 12:31 hiro protagonist wrote:
@chaos: thats a lot of WIFOM in your questions.
I think Varpulis has the right idea. ilovejonn has a good point to. Here is my opinion:
1. DTs: your discretion.
2. Medics: protect those that you think are strong players, Vets.
3. Vigs: dont put on you batman suit tonight.
As for PMs, Im gonna save mine till daylight. I dont want to lose someone right of the bat. It goes without saying to save one PM for later in the game. The power of the PM choice gets stronger the longer the game goes on.
Vigs can't even shoot until night 1.
Saving PMs for now, seems like a logical choice. We're not sure who's going to be hit tonight, so it might be a waste to mason this quickly. I'm also not sure what relevant information can be gleaned tonight, that cannot wait 24 hours.Some people might have reasons for masoning though, so, if you have a strong reason to do so, go ahead, but otherwise, don't mason just for the sake of it.
As for your second point, I'd say that you should probably use at least one of your mason choices earlier on in the game. Yes, your choice becomes stronger later in the game, but you will gather more information, and it will be easier to scum hunt, the earlier you start talking with someone. PMs aren't just for talking to other townies and laughing together about how green you are, they're also for scum hunting, and applying pressure to people. Early in the game, there won't be many obvious scum, so it's a good time to probe people for who they think look scummy, and what their reasoning is.
DTs don't necessarily need to mason themselves with greens. Firstly, they can't even be sure they're green until the GF is dead, and then, they still shouldn't role-claim, unless there's a damned good reason too. This is because, even if someone's green, they're still human, and a liability to accidentally leak your role. Better safe than sorry, in my opinion. So, mason greens to collaborate on analysis, but mason people you aren't sure of, to get a better read on them, as a tool for scum-hunting.
Also, a general note for DTs (And other blues): Please don't needlessly claim
If someone comes back as red, look at their posts, and build an analysis. Push for their lynch, but don't claim if you don't have to. I'm saying this, after playing in PTP, where the entire town began needlessly role-claiming. Mafia loves that, please don't do the same thing in this game.
There's also the situation where no DT checks you, or you are GF, and you claim to have been checked. No DT will counterclaim you, as they don't know if other DTs have claimed to you to not. Then, all blue roles claim to you, and instant carnage for town. Any plan that involves mass claims early into the game is bad. If you have a blue role, use your own discretion and act intelligently.
I can agree to that Zodiac list, and I don't think there's any changes I'd make to it right now.
On June 14 2011 13:44 Scamp wrote:
I'm already sick to death of the talk about the mason system going around so far. Is it really that important to save your mason choices for later and/or not use any early? Quite personally I find the whole mason thing to be useless. People really seem hung up on it so maybe there's something about it I'm not getting.
What can you accomplish with it? You get a nice town circle going? I already know of a place the town circle can talk, it's called the thread. Everyone in the circle has to be a confirmed townie, and if you're a confirmed townie then everyone knows it. Obviously this mason thing can change if you're a DT and if you're a DT I hope you're smart enough to use it well.
Well, in my eyes you can use PMs to scum hunt. Pressure people, ask them for their reads. I think it's harder for mafia to be upfront and sincere in PM, than it is in thread, when they have more time to think up their responses and possibly get others on their scum team to edit. You can also look for scum tells, like if what they're saying in PM is different from what they're saying in the thread.
At least, that's how I see it. Less of a place to be green together, and more of a place to scum hunt. It's also good to bounce analysis back and forth. This can be used for scum hunting too, as it's hard for mafia to come up with good reasons someone's mafia, and if they're town, it's nice to get a second perspective on things. However, analysis should still be posted in thread, for the benefit of town at large.
On June 14 2011 13:50 Scamp wrote:
Oh hey I made it on a list.
Did sandroba say that it discourages mafia from killing people on the list? Because I'm pretty sure BC said for medics to protect people not on the list, thus the people who are on the list are wide open.
I think the point, is that there's likely to be one, if not more, mafia on the list. Then, as people on the list die, the others start to look more suspicious. Mafia might not want to shoot into the list, as it outs their own members. As well, I believe it's mostly for putting pressure on the people who figure on the list, as they are expected to contribute to town, and will be scrutinized.
On June 14 2011 13:49 sandroba wrote:
@wiggles I described this scenario on my original plan. If I'm mafia 1)I'm risking to be insta outed by a DT check 2)If I lie and claim someone checked me, if there is a DT who actually checked me (which I have no way of knowing since he won't mason me if I return red) he can istantly out me as mafia.
So no, in that scenario there is no possible bad outcome for town.
Pick GF. Say that a DT checked you as green. No other DT in his right mind will counter-claim, as he will have seen the same thing, or he wouldn't have checked you in the first place. All blues claim to you.
You're mafia. Claim green. It's a gamble, but if no DT checks you, then you get all the dumb blues claiming to you. If a DT did check you, then he needs to counter-claim. Worst-case scenario for scum is a 1 to 1 trade with a DT.
No. It's a bad plan for town.
On June 15 2011 15:09 sinani206 wrote:
youngminii: Stop metagaming. Or at least if you have to, don't use it as your only argument. I can see why would be useful in some situations, but with a N0 start, playstyles will be drastically different. It's a good start for early pressure, but don't make it your only argument against anyone.
ilovejonn: youngminii is the only one accusing you... Why are you responding with such a long argument? You should ignore accusations like that and just look for more scum. The fact that you are even responding at all is kind of scummy. Just ignore pressure accusations like that and scumhunt. No need for this defense.
On June 15 2011 15:27 sinani206 wrote:
Playstyles will be different. The fact that you have a chance of dying without knowing how much you have to defend yourself will change your playstyle, and affect it through the game.
I know that discussion is necessary, but I still feel that time and brainpower are better spent scumhunting than defending yourself. Look for people that were scummy during the night time and pressure them. The pressure on ilovejonn is based on metagame and that is pretty much worthless with the PMs and N0 start. This game is different and you have to be able to accept that. You can't use metagaming as an easy way out to actually analysing players.
On June 15 2011 16:13 sinani206 wrote:
youngminii, I acknowledged that you were scumhunting and that ilovejonn wasn't. Those were the two bases for my previous posts. I was simply urging you to go beyond metagaming, which you have done, and for ilovejonn to start actually scumhunting, since he seems to have enough time to defend himself. You have done what I urged you to do and that is good. ilovejonn, however, has not. He is, even after my posts, defending himself more and more and this is scummy behavior. I apologize, youngminii, for not explaining myself clearly. You are doing fine. It is ilovejonn who needs to up his game.
On June 16 2011 03:41 sinani206 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2011 02:11 ~OpZ~ wrote:
On June 15 2011 12:38 aidnai wrote:
That WAS my birthday wish ilj!
For other new-er blues in this game, i'm gonna bring this up since Chaos13 is dead already anyway: look at chaos13's posts. There's like 4-5 of them from N0, and all but maybe one are giving blues advice, asking for blue advice, or otherwise discussing blue roles. IMO, he was a pretty obvious snipe. Moral of the story: don't spend a lot of time talking about blues and nothing else. We can talk about this more post-game.
Scamp, the game GGQ is talking about is XXXVII. Ver = Ser Aspi. Although he and jackal did use PMs well, especially when it came to the endgame, the town kinda got lucky with a huge town circle that cleared LSB who otherwise would have been a great and easy mislynch for scum to push. So... yeah, like almost every game, it wasn't perfect play (or what we imagine is perfect) that won that game for town.
Back to this game: I can only assume that Pondo was an attempted blue snipe. Not sure about kita.
I find it odd that scum went for blue snipes over forum vets n0. I take this to mean that BC's zodiac was successful in deterring hits... Well, that's only good for us imo.
On June 15 2011 13:26 aidnai wrote:
rofl, sorry for spam/derail guys, but xsixVer just beat col.Catz on taldarim, cross positions, using tank/marine with epic multipronged attacks and NUKES lol... poor catz plays without sound so he can listen to music, got nailed by the nukes like 4 times omg...
On June 15 2011 13:05 aidnai wrote:
at this moment, Ver is playing catz on catz' stream
On June 15 2011 14:32 aidnai wrote:
since nobody is stepping up and posting anything... I guess I'll go ahead and start pressure voting.
On June 09 2011 20:08 AnxiousHippo wrote:
On June 09 2011 19:55 grassgiraffe wrote:
I can account for this guy. He's my friend IRL, he won't let you down.
Your friend said you wouldn't disappoint. Prove him wrong, make my day.
You post too much useless, obvious, info. Kita is obvious kill....He's pretty bangin. Stop bragging about how you sniped a blue.
Hey, guess what? You're on the Zodiac List. Let's see some better analysis out of you. This is bandwagon shit which might have been overlooked had you not been on the list, but since you are, I feel the need to pressure you a little. You posted obvious info here while accusing him of posting obvious info. Step up your game.
Placing my vote here for now. For someone constantly calling out for scumhunting, you sure haven't done very much of it yourself. You also call out for more content in posts, while not providing any of your own. I judge people by their actions, not their intents, and when your actions don't line up with your intents, that looks scummy to me. Prove me wrong, and I'll consider changing my vote.
grassgiraffe (Likely Modkill, no posts)
LandenC (1 post in game)
Jacinto (1 post in game)
Lazorbear (1 post in game)
This list actually makes me a little sad, because more than half of these people have played before, or are veterans, but we still have terrible activity.
On June 16 2011 13:43 aidnai wrote:
Wiggles: I cleverly hid that list in the post at the top of the page ^^ Don't forget sandroba, demorcerf, and impervious though.
As for the day's plan: I don't mind remaining a discussion/lynch target for the moment. If nothing else, my big mouth today should give others SOMETHING to give an opinion on.
Oops, haha. :p
I'm going to go to bed soon, but I hope there's some more discussion while I sleep.
I don't really get the case against aidnai, besides that he was a little spammy/off-topic. After those accusations though, he's seemed to shape up his posting for the most part, and gotten back on track.
ILJ's responses to pressure have seemed a bit odd, like others have said.
I'm keeping my vote on Sinani for now, until he comes back, and gives me some kind of reason to change it. What he was doing, is the same as someone saying we need more activity, while continuing to lurk themselves, it just looks scummy to me. It wasn't a one-off thing either, it was a constant insistence, and thus my vote. So, to respond to aidnai, a townie, would call for scum-hunting, but at least would also try to do some of their own. From a scum perspective, it's great to call for scum-hunting, and then do none. Then, when day 1 is a waste, and there's no analysis, he can go back to his posts and tell us how he said we should have scum-hunted, but didn't.
Let's not get back into discussing San's plan. I did that in PTP, and wasted more than half a day of town discussion just arguing about it.
Hope this post makes sense, I'm a little buzzed right now. :p
Also, Vancouver looks like a war zone right now. -_-
Sinani: Of the three lurkers, which do you think is scummiest, and why? Or are none of them scummy? Just give me your thoughts on them in general.
If you're 90% sure that grass is going to flip town, then why are you voting for him?
ILJ seems to have come back in full force, and I'm going to be taking my vote off of him. His recent posting makes me believe that he's likely to be green.
There's also been a new candidate, who's name has been raised as a potential lynch target, Hiro. However, I'm not sure that he's mafia either, based off the "slips" people are saying he's made. I don't think that he's scum, more so than pushing for policy lynching inactives, in a very badly worded way. GG still hasn't shown up, or made any contributory posts. That said, keeping people like him around, who will be impossible to read, isn't going to help us in this game.
So, instead of voting for two people I find likely to be green, I'm going to switch my vote to GG, who I see as more a 50-50 chance of being red, and who is impossible to read otherwise.
On June 17 2011 11:05 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Touche...I really don't care myself at this point...I still find ILJ suspicious. Hiro too. Just ILJ is actually posting names, just not following through with them. So fuck it. And why are you looking at me Wiggles? Lol...I very vehemently pushed for ILJ earlier, but given short attention span, and ILJ showing up with something MODERATE, I was fine going after someone else who posted poorly. Honestly they all were probably poor lynch choices, but I like controversy over a easily bandwagoned inactive lynch, which is all grassgiraffe is. Fuck them guys.
However, that makes it look even odder for GGQ. What he essentially did today, is throw away his vote, instead of voting for GG who would have been his choice out of the three, he kept it on Imp, who was either getting modkilled, or in any case, wasn't going to be lynched. So, his actions don't match up with what he was saying. Why not stand by your opinion, GGQ? FOS
On another note, the same thing looks odd for Hiro changing his vote to pull the hammer on ILJ so close to the deadline. At the time, it was six votes ILJ, and six votes GG, with ILJ to be lynched, and Hiro only had 5 votes. To have been killed, he would have needed two people to hop onto his wagon, so his nervousness and voting ILJ simply to "save" himself, looks very selfish, if not scummy. He wasn't in any danger, but still ensured ILJ's lynch.
On June 18 2011 04:45 hiro protagonist wrote:
No, Wiggles, It would have only took one person to switch there vote from ILJ to insure my death. I did not want to be the victim of a last minute vote switch. Hell, youngminii all ready said that he wanted to change his vote me...
In that case it would have been tied, 6-6, and GG would have been lynched. There wasn't a good reason to change your vote, except to ensure your own survival, which wasn't even in that much danger. So, it has to be put down to nervousness. But then, why are you so nervous?
Why was your vote on GG in the first place, and why did you switch to ILJ? Did you think ILJ was scummy? Then why didn't you vote him initially? If you were town, you would want to lynch scum, not another town so that you can live, so why the switch? What made you want to make sure that ILJ died as compared to yourself, or GG?
On June 18 2011 05:57 sandroba wrote:
@wiggles It's my read on RoL. Do you want me to argue why I think he's town? I don't see that being productive.
Well, if it's just based off a read, then alright. I'm just asking why you think he's worth protecting. For me, I wouldn't protect him, first because I have no read on him, and secondly, because he isn't contributing. I say, protect active people, and protect analyzers. Those are the people most likely to attract hits, and RoL is neither at this moment.