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TL Mafia XXXIX - Page 103

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
May 15 2011 15:10 GMT
#2041
@chaos13 I think that the lynch should be between Jaminz and redtooth. Both have been less pro-town than orgolove.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4372 Posts
May 15 2011 16:04 GMT
#2042
On May 16 2011 00:09 Varpulis wrote:
@Xedat

Welcome to the game. If you'd like a quick summary:

The game began with a bandwagon lynch on Kurumi, a townie with erratic and confusing posting. Nobody had any real idea who the mafia were, but Irish_Punk13 was FoS'd by redtooth.

Saying that Redtooth FoS'd Irish isn't entirely accurate. Redtooth made a random, inexplicable accusation before the game had even started:

On May 04 2011 11:39 redtooth wrote:
^ Then please keep your comments out of thread to reduce clutter. Anyways, let us proceed with the game.

Hey Irish_Punk13, I have a question for you:
How good does it feel to be scum?
Want me to explain how I figured it out so fast?

Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 11:33 Irish_Punk13 wrote:
On May 04 2011 11:28 ilovejonn wrote:
chaoser and chaos13 posting within 3 minutes of each other, SUSPICIOUS!
lol

Glad to see you Chaos13. I'm sure I'll feel more at home in this game since I know 3-4 of the people playing. I think Jackal and Coag are in this too, so this should be a lot of fun.
Obvscumtell. Please be more discrete next time. I'll put my vote on as soon as the thread gets made. 1 scum down, 5 to go.


.....and backtracked on it very quickly.

On May 05 2011 14:48 redtooth wrote:

FoS: Chaoser

Reason 1: The Irish Lynch Push
Honestly, let’s be serious: the Irish argument is a joke. There really isn’t enough of a basis to keep pushing it and it has only wasted massive amounts of time that could have been spent doing other stuff. Obviously not many people have been convinced, even though the reasoning behind this is pretty depressing in and of itself.

+ Show Spoiler [Rest of this post, quite long] +
Back to his strategy. I initially thought that it was just a prolonged Minimalist Approach, something I assumed he was doing ever since he hopped onto my RVS vote. He seemed to have dropped it after a certain point (which was fine with me since it was getting nowhere) but Irish suddenly appeared again as top suspect in a later post making it very clear that Chaoser is still actively pursuing a lynch on Irish.

Since Irish can’t be bothered to defend himself (more on that later), let’s examine Chaoser’s main arguments point-by-point on his behalf (I will paraphrase for the sake of brevity).

Point 1: Irish had an odd reaction to our combined presses.
First off, that’s not a scumtell. When two people with Ghost icons start attacking you while acting like they know what they’re doing, you pay attention. As a matter of fact, would it not have been more odd if he didn’t react the way he did? I mean who is comfortable with two “vets” pressing you off the bat, regardless of how much support there is to those presses? I’m curious as to what a normal, expected reaction would have been.

Points 2 and 3: Irish creates empty content then chainsaw defends Kurumi by attacking AO.
I’ll admit, I was pretty surprised at how much traction Irish’s argument got. However, I wouldn’t call it a “chainsaw defense” as much as it is a desperate attempt to look like you’re scumhunting. Irish didn’t have many choices in this position as he was expected to “hunt scum” and produce new and interesting content. He couldn’t accuse himself (duh). On the other hand, you would have spun an accusation if he jumped on the Kurumi wagon. Besides those two, there literally is nothing to go off of up to that point. This scenario is somewhat less likely so I won’t hold Chaoser as accountable for these 2 points.

Point 4: “He is wishy-washy”
See above. There is a sudden expectation on him to create novel contributions to the thread and this honestly seems like a very half-hearted attempt to fulfill those expectations. And you’re right it wasn’t an EBWODP. It was an EBWOP. It’s a picky counterargument to a nitpicky argument. What difference does it make? If anything, it perfectly fits his character of noobtown.

Redtooth’s Defense, Point 5: He is very uninterested in the game right now
You’ve made it very clear that he’s not going to slip your grasp without a serious defense. So why hasn’t he posted one? Because he’s uninterested. Scum is way more likely to fight back til the bitter end (see KillerSOS below) rather than just semi-abandoning a game. It’s not like he’s trying to lurk through it either since his bandwagon seemed to be the biggest at one point.

Now you may be saying, “Hey redtooth! This looks more like a defense of Irish than a FoS on Chaoser.” Well the problem is that either Chaoser should have recognized these or he did recognize but chose to ignore them. Since he seems to be a solid player so far, I’m leaning towards the latter and that is the scummiest action exhibited by anybody in this game so far (essentially actively and knowingly promoting a lynch on obvtown).


Everyone, consider the following questions as objectively as possible:
Is it very possible that Irish is simply a noobtown? Yes
Is it very possible that Irish’s “chainsaw defense” was actually just a noobtown analysis? Yes
Is it very possible that Irish’s lack of defense is in his lack of interest in staying alive? Yes
Is it very possible that Chaoser is tunneling, intentional or otherwise? Yes



On May 05 2011 21:42 redtooth wrote:
@Chaoser - I don't see how the argument is weak or convoluted. It essentially boils down to two things:
  • You are pushing a lynch on Irish, an obvtown



On May 06 2011 05:41 redtooth wrote:
Irish I still think is town. Kurumi, I'll have to check again. Still leaning towards town though. Actually, where the hell did you even get that line of thought from my previous post?

Sucker for nostalgia
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
May 15 2011 16:14 GMT
#2043
Lol, sorry, I was running from memory. It was chaoser FoSing Irish_Punk13, not redtooth, wasn't it?

It is interesting, though, how redtooth was defending irish and pushing chaoser. He chainsaw defends Irish by calling chaoser scum for FoSing him. I'm starting to become very suspicious that redtooth is gf.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 15 2011 16:25 GMT
#2044
Back. Excellent work on the lynch, and the analysis since. Still a lot to do but it looks more and more like we´re taking this.
:3
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
May 15 2011 17:07 GMT
#2045
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Xedat
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany358 Posts
May 15 2011 17:25 GMT
#2046
Thanks for the summary, I just checked sandroba's last posts and he was very certain that Impervious was mafia. Then I checked Impervious posts and he has said that he is tired and is planning on contributing from now on for the last 5 posts. Which has not happened.
I think we should consider Impervious as mafia strongly.
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
May 15 2011 18:29 GMT
#2047
That Summary is a bit butchered because Medics most likely exist.
Lets study the Mafia List

GGQ - Roleblocker
Amber[Light] - Goon
sinani206 - Goon
Irish_Punk13 - Goon

Now then, through my inexistent humble insight, i believe the other two mafia are well experienced players. Why? well, 1 of them is the Godfather which is GOING to be top tier in the mafia. The Goon that is left is most likely experienced because of the Mafia META.
You would never put more newbies that experienced players in the mafia due to heavy imbalance.
Our prime suspects are..
redtooth
ilovejonn
impervious
airbladeorange

hey theyre all experienced. Either redtooth or ilovejonn is going to be the godfather because i believe they are the 2 most experienced of the 4
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
May 15 2011 18:51 GMT
#2048
@Kenpachi - 1, why do you think medics exist, or you just made a typo, because if I recall there hasn't been a med save on any major town player. 2, talking about experience, why have you left out orgolove and kitaman27. You are also an experienced player except no one has counter claimed your vig claim. Care to explain?
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
May 15 2011 19:04 GMT
#2049
Kenpachi is vigi because of Occam's razor. Nobody counter claimed, so unless the actual vigi is an idiot who decided not to claim for some random reason, Kenpachi must be the vigi.

If we do have medics, then they decided not to save chaoser or sandroba, a claimed dt (it was a bluff, but nobody knew that) and a guaranteed townie. There are two explanations:
  1. We don't have any medics
  2. Our medics have no clue who to protect
I'm leaning towards explanation one. What is your reasoning, Kenpachi?
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
May 15 2011 19:14 GMT
#2050
TO ILOVEJONN

oh. i didnt know that some roles might not show up -_-..
I said PRIME suspects. you guys have the heaviest burden.
I am vig.
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
May 15 2011 19:20 GMT
#2051
Oh I see what you mean, you thought every one of the roles will exist in the setup because it's listed in the OP.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4209 Posts
May 15 2011 20:27 GMT
#2052
On May 15 2011 14:19 orgolove wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Here's the spreadsheet with updated vote results.

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/LFRNBCMK/TL_mafia_xxxix_day_4.xlsx


First, the criteria again:
[image loading]


Day 3 was another really important vote, in hindsight, as sinani206 was revealed to be a red.
[image loading]

[image loading]


Day 4 didn't bring too many changes. Though the vote was close at the start of 12 hours, it was more because the reds didn't have the manpower to switch the lynch, rather than there being actually two contested results. And the data shows that.

[image loading]

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
How did it feel, having to choose between two of your own? lololol


Of course, in red's point of view, it'd be better to lose the new player whose every action had to be directed, and save the vet who could, given a miracle, survive... (ha)

Here's the summary.
[image loading]


I have more confidence in this, as it compiles 4 days of data, instead of just 2. But again, because I revealed the methodology before this, it is not completely impossible that the reds tried to coordinate and manipulate the procedures. I'll see about tweaking the factors the next time I play mafia.

To me, the data clearly shows that ilovejonn and AirbladeOrange are the remaining two reds.


I strongly push for ilovejonn's lynch.

Hey, can I ask you a quick question?

This info is useful to the town as well as useful to the Mafia. They can kill one of the lower-scoring townies with relative impunity..... Why, exactly, did you feel that you needed to post it so early in the night?

Also, for everyone else - Don't post any lists right now. Seriously, just don't. Don't post any analysis right now. Wait until the day post - that way the Mafia can't choose to kill someone who seems pro-town.....

We've got a huge advantage. Let's not fuck it up.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4209 Posts
May 15 2011 20:36 GMT
#2053
Oh, and if you're afraid of dying overnight, post it right at the day post, or just a few minutes before it, so the Mafia can't change their kill based on whatever you come up with.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
May 15 2011 23:52 GMT
#2054
Is the godfather guaranteed to be an experienced player?
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 16 2011 00:51 GMT
#2055
On May 16 2011 08:52 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Is the godfather guaranteed to be an experienced player?

No, not at all. It´s either random, scum vote or hosts choice, none of those require a veteran as GF.
:3
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
May 16 2011 01:11 GMT
#2056
It says in the op mafia chooses their GF. The GF is extremely powerful in the hands of an experienced player. If they are dt checked they can get a ton of town cred and lead the town in the wrong direction. So the GF is more powerful if given to a vet who knows what he is doing. So we can't say 100% the GF is a vet but it is certainly more likely to be one.
Moderator
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
May 16 2011 02:05 GMT
#2057
On May 16 2011 02:07 chaoser wrote:

elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 16 2011 02:13 GMT
#2058
[QUOTE]On May 15 2011 14:19 orgolove wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Here's the spreadsheet with updated vote results.

http://uploadmirrors.com/download/LFRNBCMK/TL_mafia_xxxix_day_4.xlsx


First, the criteria again:
[image loading]


Day 3 was another really important vote, in hindsight, as sinani206 was revealed to be a red.
[image loading]

[image loading]


Day 4 didn't bring too many changes. Though the vote was close at the start of 12 hours, it was more because the reds didn't have the manpower to switch the lynch, rather than there being actually two contested results. And the data shows that.

[image loading]

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
How did it feel, having to choose between two of your own? lololol


Of course, in red's point of view, it'd be better to lose the new player whose every action had to be directed, and save the vet who could, given a miracle, survive... (ha)

Here's the summary.
[image loading]


I have more confidence in this, as it compiles 4 days of data, instead of just 2. But again, because I revealed the methodology before this, it is not completely impossible that the reds tried to coordinate and manipulate the procedures. I'll see about tweaking the factors the next time I play mafia.

To me, the data clearly shows that ilovejonn and AirbladeOrange are the remaining two reds.

Look dude, I appreciate your efforts with this statistical analysis, but the bottom line is, there is no way the conclusions can be accurate. Beyond the influence of intentional red manipulation, you simply don't have enough data to go on. Your sample size is pitifully small. It's not your fault, just a symptom of the game. It is far more beneficial to reach conclusions based on post content.
d=(^_^)z
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
May 16 2011 02:59 GMT
#2059
This is not the troll post you were looking for.
whole lies with a half smile
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 16 2011 02:59 GMT
#2060
lol

For what it´s worth, I say Orgolove is Scum
:3
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