EPTInsane Mafia 2 - Page 94
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kevconsim
United States317 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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kevconsim
United States317 Posts
But in some peoples opinion(people who didnt like BM) yes u are 100%correct | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Jackal however played an insanely good end game, exactly how PM games should be played and I commend him for that. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On March 27 2011 00:40 Amber[LighT] wrote: That's definitely not the case. As of right now he's given us good direction for the first day and it's not worth discounting him because of things like "I'm hovering around 80% sure jackal's town..." I'm just catching up now but want to point out what I meant was lost here-- I meant DESPITE the fact that I felt (and probably others felt) jackal was town we shouldn't just go along with his plans when he doesn't offer anything to back them up, which he was doing quite a bit at the time. Obviously this pretty much goes without saying all the time but I wanted to show support for jackal without agreeing with his seemingly-arbitrary 'x is scum' statements. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 27 2011 17:14 Eiii wrote: I'm just catching up now but want to point out what I meant was lost here-- I meant DESPITE the fact that I felt (and probably others felt) jackal was town we shouldn't just go along with his plans when he doesn't offer anything to back them up, which he was doing quite a bit at the time. Obviously this pretty much goes without saying all the time but I wanted to show support for jackal without agreeing with his seemingly-arbitrary 'x is scum' statements. I didn't care if town "went along" or not. It was bums show. Like I've already said my "plan" was more a PM to bum. I can't PM people outside of the IG so I posted it in the thread. Town went ballistic. I knew that going into it. I also knew that it would create a high probability of me becoming his lynch target. But I was not seeking towns approval. Somebody said making plans through PMs is scummy. No it isn't This is why planning through PMs is so much more effective than doing it in game. I would not have tried this gambit if town held the lynch. It would have gotten me killed. Town would lose the item game. 2 different scum team members would still be running around. Don't be looking for any more plans from me. If any plans are hatched they will be with us 4 confirmed townies from the IG. You will only see the results. Can the IG players continue their PM circle after the IG is over? | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:06 annul wrote: you. cheated. simple. that is what you did. you cheated. i do not care what color you are or what color i am, i do not appreciate cheating in any game. it ruins the entire game. and on top of cheating, you have the gall to call me "little retard" and be a general nuisance. fuck off. LSB: please replace me with barundar, or blow my potato up, either way, i am done playing this game. You are aware that RoL could easily PM Tackster with out cheating? Aren't you? Reds of a feather blow up together man. Stay in the game man. | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
Am I allowed to PM him to beg him to keep playing?  | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On March 27 2011 15:30 Kavdragon wrote: My case for Insanious v1.0 Insanious has exhibited scummy play on several fronts: He has held extremely wrong, scum favored opinions on the nature of PM’s. He has aggressively and exclusively defended one person (tackster), which makes no sense from a townie’s prospective. He has shown contrasting weak opinions as to the alignment of others, despite the fervor of the arguments he made against them. All of these things point to one thing: Insanious is Scum. + Show Spoiler [WrongOpinions] + As has been explained by many veteran players, wrong opinions do not necessarily mean scum. It’s only when those plans consistently favor scum that they become a clear indication that the player is scum. Insanious has shown just that: On March 25 2011 02:21 Insanious wrote: The only reason why I don't want an irc channel is because it will make it harder for me to keep up with the game. I don't get to sit infront of the irc channel all day, I catch up on mafia games over a few hours in one chunk usually. As such, I don't have access to irc during the day, and reading logs will take for ever and analysing them will require more time to format properly. This makes it harder for me to play... Not to mention I would most likely not be able to join the irc chat often. Not to mention how cluttered the thread will look once the logs are posted... I guess if everyone else wants one I don't mind... Just don't call me scum if I donKt participate in it very much. The IRC was a good thing for town, and the mafia/SK realized it faster than the town did, and shut it down. People who have something to hide are terrified of PM’s/irc because they have to make snap decisions, and things slip out much easier. I repeat: ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE DO NOT WANT PM’S AND IRC WITH ANYONE OTHER THAN THEIR TEAM. Insanious opposed this plan, saying “I don’t want to have to read through all of them…” So don’t. No one is saying that you have to read them. Can you think of any ill effect this would have on the town? NO. It can only help us! This is a WRONG opinion, that is SCUM favored. On March 26 2011 12:27 Insanious wrote: So your saying this is scummy? This is the most TOWN oriented thing a new player could do... Scum will try to manipulate the town circle to do their bidding... A new player, will be easily persuaded. A new player on a scum team, will have the scum team to talk to to help them out. No scum would ignore PMs, unless their whole scum team is terrible. You have this completely backwards. Town loves PM’s because it’s much easier to find scum in them. Scum hate PM’s because it’s really easy to slip up in them. If you want me to, I can find several veteran players who agree with this. This opinion is so blatantly wrong, that you are either a terrible player, or scum. Even if you are scum, you’re not good at it if you think you can get away with this sort of thing. Based off of previous games, you are not inexperienced, therefor you are Scum + Show Spoiler [Defense of Tackster] + + Show Spoiler [Wall of defense] + On March 26 2011 11:43 Insanious wrote: :/ killing new players is awesome... can we at least let Trackster play till day 2? I mean seriously, this is his first game isn't it, at least let him get a taste rather then kill him instantly... just my $0.02. I also play on .Org, and they don' kill new players before day 2 simply because it doesn't foster a good environment for them, and they don't usually come back... at least giving them a taste gives them a chance to play more. Although, if Trackster isn't new (i just assumed he was) then we can just kills him... On March 26 2011 11:49 Insanious wrote: I'm just saying... we are here to build a community, and if I had been lynched day 1 when it was my first game, I wouldn't of come back. Most others would feel the same way. Lynching day 1 or day 2 is pretty much the exact same thing, just let the newer players have some fun, while killing others that look scummy. I know I won't be voting for Trackster simply because I can't in good conscience know that I might be ruining someone's possibly becoming a regular in TL mafia by this... I have no problem killing him after he gets a taste of what mafia is like... but he hasn't even lived a night cycle, or lynched anyone yet... but thats just me. On March 26 2011 11:52 Insanious wrote: TL has a problem getting larger games going, lynching new players doesn't help. Look at Death Factory, where we only had 17 people... Trackster doesn't even look red. People are lynching him because he doesn't post... I would rather kill someone who usually posts but doesn't, then ruin the chance of having a new TL regular. On March 26 2011 12:01 Insanious wrote: You have 0 analysis of Trackster... yet you are 100% sure he is red or black. He is brandnew, so you can't even Meta him... so please, tell me why he is scum? All I see is a new player, that is trying, but still a little lost. Paint me a picture that will make me think he deserves to be lynched. On March 26 2011 12:13 Insanious wrote: I'm defending a new player, that doesn't look scummy at all... from getting killed night 1 their first game. Its a matter of values for me. Unless someone could show me something where he is 100% red, 0% chance of not being red... then he doesn't deserve to be killed for not being experienced. On March 26 2011 12:20 Insanious wrote: You can PM pevergreen, and ask him about Totalwar.org and their policies on killing new players or anyone who has not played mafia in a while. Hell, go over to Totalwar.org and go ask some of the players that play mafia... They don't kill new people day 1 or day 2 simply to help foster a good environment for the community to grow. For players to come back and play more games. Just something I liked and picked up... I mean, I wouldn't of been back if I just was killed outright day 1 my first game... Its not motivated by any alignment, its motivated by the fact that mafia is a community game, and without a community we don't get to play games. TL has TERRIBLE activity. I mean look at most of the past few games where only half the people post... Or look at Death Factory where 17 players signed up when he wanted 30... We need more players, and killing them day 1 doesn't get new players. Bigger picture then a single game of mafia... On March 26 2011 12:23 Insanious wrote: I'm trying to defend someone you are trying to get lynched, very different then steering the game in a different direction. We are still talking about Trackster. This isn't me trying to talk about something unrelated. Don't try to spin this into anything else than it is. On March 26 2011 12:27 Insanious wrote: So your saying this is scummy? This is the most TOWN oriented thing a new player could do... Scum will try to manipulate the town circle to do their bidding... A new player, will be easily persuaded. A new player on a scum team, will have the scum team to talk to to help them out. No scum would ignore PMs, unless their whole scum team is terrible. On March 26 2011 23:56 Insanious wrote: The counter bandwaggon is Tackster... Also, you are defending him now. On March 27 2011 05:30 Insanious wrote: WOW, so now it goes from "Tack is 100% scum" to "Tack is probably scum, im pretty sure... not really" We are hanging the towns hopes of killing a scum, on someone who continuously lies to town to try to get them to do what he wants... Jackal is scummy scum scum scum. Ok, we need to lynch jackal tonight. He says he has the towns only KP, and is going to use it WITHOUT TOWN INPUT. This is just as dangerous as a scum. - - - - Not to mention, coag said he had a weapon... doesn't that mean KP? Is Jackal lying? - - - - As well, it would be very easy for Jackal to say "I am town KP" while being mafia or 3rd party and using their KP to look like a vig... - - - - Jackal looks more and more scummy as the day goes on. On March 27 2011 05:45 Insanious wrote: Because insulting the people your trying to convince is a good way to get people to follow you... give us something to change our minds. Give us PMs, give us proof... The only thing that I can go on when looking at who to lynch is the stuff in thread. In thread Tackster looks town and you look scum. If you want to change my mind you have to prove it... give me PMs. Give me something to change my mind. Because you NEVER will sway ANYONE simply going "guys... believe me, I'm town I swear!" On March 27 2011 06:24 Insanious wrote: I love how jackal and coag have been all "We have proof, Tack is scum, kill him!" When it’s really just "Tack is the least popular out of us 6, and one of us 6 need to die... so it might as well be Tack" Funny how basically the reason you are killing him is that he is new to TL :/. Holy crap. He spent more time defending tackster than doing any other thing in the game! When tack was a lynch target, he suddenly because MUCH more active, and spent all that time defending him. Why? I can understand defending someone, but unless he has more information than the people in the item game (he doesn’t. It’s day one) then why is he so opinionated about it? I’m not saying anything about the strength of the arguments he makes in defense, some of them I agree with, but I cannot see a townie putting this much effort into defending someone they cannot be sure is innocent! This makes much more sense from the mafia prospective however: If he, as mafia, can find legitimate arguments as to why his scum buddy should NOT be lynched, he would totally go all out to save an "unjust" lynch of a scum buddy. + Show Spoiler [The strange case of Jackal and Mr.Coag] + + Show Spoiler [Accusations] + On March 27 2011 06:44 Insanious wrote: Everything Jackal and Coag have said is basically a lie. Has no basis in anything, and we are basing our kills on it. Hell, they cant even defend themselves against simple questions like "what makes you think this?" which is a basic question for anyone when calling scum. On March 27 2011 07:17 Insanious wrote: Basically for me... Track has given town over 100 posts to analyze for later Jackal/Coag have given few posts. The posts they have given... half of them contradict the other half "Tack is 100% scum" vs "I'm not 100% sure he is scum" "Jackal, Coag, Lemon are confirmed" vs "We will be confirming Jackal, Coag, and lemon by day 2" "Tack isn't responding to PMs" vs "No one sent Tack PMs" "Tack was inactive" vs "Tack being active the whole time with over 100 posts" Everything Coag and Jackal have said is a lie... so how can I support anything you do? You lie, and then contradict your selves later in your posts... I don't understand how you can do that and still think we will follow what you are doing. On March 27 2011 07:25 Insanious wrote: Dude, don't even try this with me, you want me to go through every post of yours and line them up? If you say 12 hours ago "Tack is 100% scum" Then a hour ago "not confirmed scum, just most likely scum" Still a lie. Doesn't matter if it was 12 hours ago, or 24 hours ago. You said it was confirmed and it wasn't. Just like you said, when you first posted that Jackal, Coag, and Lemon were 100% confirmed. Yet just now, Coag posted about a Plan to confirm you guys. This means you lied. You said Tack didn't respond to PMs, yet then Tack said you guys didn't PM him. And you said you left him out of the PM circle. Another lie. Then you were just caught in a lie saying Tack was inactive, when he never was. You have LIED, stop LYING TO THE TOWN. jesus, if you are town, you are the worst town in the history of mafia. On March 27 2011 08:01 Insanious wrote: Fine, lets start here... This DOES NOT allude to Tackster being anything but SCUM. #2 says he is scum black or red #3 says you will shoot the other scum when tackster flips red/black You do not say anywhere that you might be wrong. There is 0% interpretation where you allude to not being 100% sure Tack is scum here. If you can show me exactly what lines allude to that.... Here's you saying he is 100% black or red Again saying he is 100% red or black First time you said Tack wasn't 100% Scum... so now you are trying to weasel your self out of what your previously said. For 17 pages before this post, you said Tackster was 100% scum, 0% chance of not being scum. Now, since we are attacking you. You are saying "oh wait... he is just 2/3 chance, not 100% chance" Very scummy. Scum like to leave backdoors, you are making yours very late, then trying to weasel out of it later. Now, as people start to question your plan. Tack goes from 100% scum (AS seen in point #2 and #3 of your plan) To only being 66% scum... you think. Wait, now your saying you could be wrong... look at the first post here, you linked it. You NEVER SAID YOU COULD BE WRONG. You said Tack could be red or black. You NEVER ONCE said he could be green. LIER! HELL, now you are saying that you don't even have proof to say that track is scum or not... you are just guessing. Before you confirmed he was scum, now you are saying he might not be? That its just a hunch... - - - - So your plan was built on a LIE (Tack being confirmed scum), because you LIED saying he was scum (see posts above)... then you LIED saying you didn't LIE. :/ Time to look into your other LIES. On March 27 2011 08:12 Insanious wrote: Let's start with a short lie, that deconduo caught you with Lie caught 6 minutes later... Now into another lie, that ties into this one... Wait WHAT? You said he never responded to PMs... that you never sent. NO SHIT. Doesn't make him scum, YOU LIED TO MAKE HIM LOOK SCUMMY. You left him out of the PM circle, you didn't even PM him, and then you oust him for not PM'ing you, wow... LIER LIER LIER. On March 27 2011 08:13 Insanious wrote: Do I need to actually go and look for you confirming 3 town VS Coag saying that people aren't confirmed, that you are going to confirm them during the night? It only happened like 2 pages ago... On March 27 2011 08:25 Insanious wrote: Yes I can. If I said: The earth revolves around the sun and you said: No the sun revolves around the earth Then I would be lying, and you would be proving it. He said: You, Himself, and Lemon were confirmed 100% town You said: We are going to confirm You, Jackal, and Lemon on Night 1. You proved that he lied about people being confirmed. He was caught in a lie. You caught him in the lie, then never called him out on it. On March 27 2011 08:27 Insanious wrote: Then its 3 lies for Jackal, and 1 lie for you... maybe you are the other scum. I don't know. On March 27 2011 08:32 Insanious wrote: I'm interested in killing scum. Tack doesn't look scummy to me... Jackal does. Has nothing to do with Tack. I haven't even brought up the Tack lynch in a while. I've been talking about killing Jackal, where he lied. He was lieing while talking about Tack. Don't try to make a link where there isn't one. There is a big difference between me defending tack and attacking Jackal. You can't seem to see that. Hopefully the rest of the town can. On March 27 2011 08:42 Insanious wrote: In my eyes, you and Jackal have done absolutely nothing. You have shown nothing to support that you have done anything. You talk... amongst your selves. You tell town to trust you. But you haven't acutally tried to tell me you've done anything. Tack has at least participated in the game. He laid out ideas for the town to look at. He gave posts for the town to analyze. And he looks green. The rest of you IG players have not done that, you play in your own little world... and guess what its biting you in the ass. As town, you need to share info, so that we don't kill you. Its how it always works. Mafia work to keep info away from the town. Thats how it works. By being secretive you are shooting your self in the foot. Now Jackal is caught up in lies, with no way to explain them, and he looks 100% scum, You are out here defending him simply because you put work into making some sort of plan, that I assume exists or you wouldn't be defending him... but I don't know if it does... You have vested interests that are clouding your judgement. If you actually want to help Jackal and the town. SHOW ME HOW HE IS NOT SCUM. Don't just tell me that he isn't. As I read through all his posts, I found something very interesting and telling: He argues extensively with jackal/coag, but never once does he call them scum! He calls them liers, condems their actions, and otherwise defaces their plans. Towards the end he says that “maybey [coag] is scum” But never calls him scum. Long into the argument, he states that jackal “looks scummy”, but he still hasn’t called them scum! He holds just strong opinions about their play, but he is extremely weak when it comes to the actual accusation! This is such a scum thing to do! They KNOW they are innocent, so they have a hard time saying otherwise. In conclusion, read the introduction. Insanious is Scum. @wrong opinions: PMs are strong when in a 100% town circle. Aka. the blue circle. I wasn't saying PMs are wrong period. They are just weak when there are scum already infiltrated in your PM circle. In the IG, the players DO NOT know who is scum. As such, they are sharing information with the scum that they are not sharing with the rest of the town. This is dangerous. Players are trusting other players that they do not know are town. This leads to mafia manipulation... How hard is that to understand? Mafia in PM circles kill town, its been see many times before (I haven't played in any games with PMs but people do talk about it) @Defending Tackster, I give you day 1 in Mafia XXXV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=11#213 Annul vs LSB + ME Annul was mafia, LSB was blue, I was blue. I did not know what the player's alignments were, but I defended LSB for almost the whole day vs Annul, and almost saved LSB. LSB was a blue, who died to Annul a RED. I was a town, protecting another town, that I had a gut feeling was not mafia, vs a mafia player. This is how I play town. @the case vs coag and jackal. To me, this is the same thing was me vs annul. Go ready that day 1. I attack annul, deface his plan, try to save LSB. I never call Annul scum once. I even try to get someone else lynched... heck, for the first like 20 hours of day 1 in that game, I don't even have a lynch target, I just know LSB is a terrible lynch. I eventually settle on brocket (someone who is scum, and i thought was scum due to meta since I played a game with him before where he was town... I was right) - - - - This is how I play town, yes its different then other people... but I stick my neck out there and feverently attack and defend players. As town, this is how I play since if I die, it matters little as long as I find scum. You can see the same thing when I go after DXCLIV in pokemafia (page 43 I think) Or how about when my role restricts how I play town, and I cannot defend players only attack: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186653 I lurk like no other. I suck at pointing out scum, but am very good at finding town... useless in mafia, maybe. But its what I do. In every game I have played, I have been town: Pokemafia: was a medic, who day 1 and then day 4 posted A LOT attacking two players Kenpachi and DXCLIV mafia XXXV: was vet, had a 1000 post day 1, where I attacked Annuls plan to kill LSB without a replacement lynch. I was town, annul was mafia, LSB was town. Orgah Mafia: was restricted in that I could only attack those I thought was mafia, lurked because I had nothing to say (as I generally have no opinions on who is and who isn't mafia) Deathfactory: Special circumstances, but revealed my powerful town role day 1, then posted an obscenely large amount of times, putting my neck out there, as mafia would of killed me night 1, or i would of been lynched for getting the wrong people killed day 1. - - - - I play mafia like this... if you haven't figured that out yet, then you can lynch me and see that I am green and waste a day for the town. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 27 2011 22:53 tnkted wrote: Wtf has been happening? Annul was confirmed town 60 pages ago by my little game. He was the most townesque person here! Am I allowed to PM him to beg him to keep playing? No you can't. But I did already. | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
Confirmed Town (due to the alignment pm breadcrumbing): Annul Coag tnkted Probably town: insanious (hes the one that actually publically confirmed coag's breadcrumb, IDK why coag wants to kill him) Lemonwalrus (found a cleverly hidden clue of mine that only a townie would get, but enough people had posted on my clues so he could just be very clever. Unlikely however. I am 85% sure he is town) Bumatlarge (well, hes probably blue. But I'm not entirely happy with how hes playing the game atm. Dont want to go more into this right now.) Chaoser (constant legitimate analysis and effort to help town. No independent proof other than personal analysis) GMarshal (same as chaoser, although slightly less so because so many of his posts have been virtually the same: encouraging the lurkers to post more or he will accuse them of being scum, which he hasn't done yet but hey its early) Mr. Wiggles (same as chaoser, although wiggles is more fun to say) Cube (same as chaoser although cube is less fun to say) On the fence: Jackal & Tackster (I don't know what to think about these two. I'm almost certain that one of them is the red, but I really don't want to lynch the wrong player because both seem like they would be useful later) Meapak_Ziphh (I thought he had some blue vibes at first but now I think he might be scum. He isn't a primary target right now however, we should focus on the jackal/tackster thing right now until the item game gets sorted out) SCUM? not FOS, but my personal reads: kevconsim Amber[LighT] (hes been posting, but not much of has been helpful. Seems like he wants to fly under the radar) deconduo ilovejonn OriginalName orgolove iGrok What do you guys think? I left out my blue reads because I figured that wouldn't help town at all. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
 (it doesnt bother you that I call you jack does it? I got mad at your nickname and i dont want to be hypocritical) | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
I have defended myself on several occasions with more than a one liner. Defending myself against insanious isn't worth any more than 1 liners. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
I'd like to point out that i've gotten up and now i'm posting. That doesn't mean that when i finished posting i went inactive - it meant i was sleeping. Surprisingly I need to make that clear to some people so they don't accuse me… Anyway from what I've gleaned there's no vote tonight. Instead we have to figure out if we need to medic anyone and Jackal claims to be a vig with a shot aimed tonight. Because Jackal has been insisting he's going to shoot tonight and given that I feel he may shoot me i'm going to disclose my item so that town knows what it is if i die: From: LSB Banking Subject: Role PM Part 2 Date: 3/25/11 11:04 You got an Item! Mood Ring- Hmmmm, a mood ring? You can use the Mood ring to investigate another player’s alignment during the night. That's the entirety of my stupid item. I mean yes a DT check is pro town but I've seen an exploding potato and a stun gun with multiple abilities so i feel pretty annoyed that i'm a detective that probably won't get to detect... Btw. the reason the subject is part 2 is that the first PM linked to quicktopics - the other IG players can confirm this for all you paranoids out there. Now to begin some assessment. It's been outed (if not confirmed) that the plans in place are: #1 Jackal and Coagulation are going to confirm each other somehow. #2 Lemon is assumed clear by Coagulation and Jackal seems to agree. #3 Assuming Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other then either annul or myself are scum Jackal also claims that he has a vig-style power or item. Knowing this mafia may wish to try and kill Jackal, Coag or both if one of them isnt mafia (or even if one is). Assuming we have 2 medics willing to cover both how are we going to coordinate that? Greens in the main thread cant PM!! And even then we may be covering a mafia... Now from the outset I have issues with this plan: On the assumption that both are alignment checking each other: If they use an item and are stolen from the use does not go through. If they use an ability and are nerfed the power does not go through. Assuming coags stun gun exists it does not have protection from being stolen and hence cant guarantee a non-nerf. Now i'm not of course saying that trying to confirm each other is a bad idea. Nor do I feel that trying this plan is bad. I'm saying that making the assumption that the plan will go through 100% and basing our behaviour around that is certainly a bad idea. An examination of all scenarios follow in the spoiler: + Show Spoiler + The plan goes through to perfection, no DT checks fail and the red have 2 KP. Coag isn't stolen from and his sun-gun prevents his death. Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Tack is shot and all other players are Green. Scum can shoot whomever they wish and so long as they don't manage to kill 4 people: town wins the IG Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Coag/Jack, an unconfirmed Lemon and a suspected Annul/Tack Scum use their KP to shoot Jackal. (Assume coag uses stun-gun) We now have no idea who is scum is as Coag can't be cleared. 3-man draw. Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Jackal/Coag, an unconfirmed Lemon and a suspected Tack/Annul Scum doesn't need to bother with KP. We're now in a position where we want to lynch a town. If he is lynched the mafia kill the 2 greens the next night. Mafia wins. Jackal and Coagulation don't confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Tack/Annul & Lemon, 2 unconfirmed. Scum shoot Tack/Annul and Lemon. We now don't know who is scum. 2-man draw. Jackal and Coagulation don't confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Tack/Annul & Lemon, 2 unconfirmed. Scum shoot Tack/Annul and Lemon. We now don't know who is scum. 2-man draw. The above examples detail the possible plays for each of us being the scum. In 4 of 5 cases a shot by a pro-town vig causes confusion and does not lead to a pro-town conclusion. If you read through the scenarios of the plan going perfectly depending on who is red: 1. The IG is won by green 2. The IG is won by red 3. There is a 3-man draw 4. There is a 2-man draw 5. There is a 2-man draw At best in the 4 scenarios (we only win for sure in 1) we have a draw between 2 people. As I understand it the first person to die will automatically win the IG for the other guy even if he dies as well. So if the first person to die is green then red team get the items whether or not the red player dies. In this case we have less information then red as red will know which player is town. We have to lynch in this scenario because if it goes to night then red can shoot first thing and auto-win the IG. So we have to lynch on a 50/50 chance... And remember this is all dependent on the plan going perfectly. Items can be stolen. Abilities can be nerfed. DTs can be framed. Drivers can throw abilities off. People in the IG can be tactically shot. The Godfather passes DT tests. So I repeat a plan that goes to perfection has a 1 in 5 win rate. And there's almost no chance this will go to perfection... All things considered I think it is important we have no town vig shots into the IG. I think I've made it very clear why this is important. Please make your agreement loud and clamorous. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 05:24. Posts 989 I'll be honest and fair. Out of Tackster Annul and Darm 2 are scum. I picked Tack simply because I saw him as the easiest lynch. If you want to lynch darm I'm cool with that as well. The longer this has gone on the more I think annul is the town out of those 3. It is a numbers game. Some people seem to be following the plan put in place by the trio. I want to point out that jackal claimed he didn't have a reason to think I was the scummiest only the EASIEST LYNCH. Well apart from the fact that that has been proven false Jackals plan gives no reason as to why I'm scummier than Annul. In fact as he picked me for reasons that dont have to do with scum then annul was the one FOSsed before me and is therefore scummier. That's just a point on the strategy employed being stupid. I believe and I've said it before Annul has actually quite towny reads. I mentioned it before when the debate ended on whether or not Bum should be mayor: Tackster Ireland. March 25 2011 14:47. Posts 107 My 10 cents here - alot of that arguing with annul was me, i was trying to explain to him the flaws i saw anyway. But the important thing is he seems pro-town and is fighting for his case right or wrong. I mentioned he was confirmed, etc. I was exaggerating of course, but he may yet be town. Possibly we should try and lynch scum over annoyances? You realise you are suggesting we lynch a player in the mini-game right? Also annul made some pretty pro-town messages when he though he was getting shot: annul United States. March 27 2011 15:31. Posts 1571 and if you ARE town, you're fucking retarded and you probably just cost us the item game. On March 27 2011 15:29 annul wrote: are you actually public night vig? if so, i need to dump info quickly I also want to insert a message here @Annul. You claimed special 'secret' information from the PM circle. As was obvious you outed your PMs and there was absolutely no information that anything was going on except people were basing there opinions on what was going on in the thread anyway. Why keep a secret when a. There is no secret & b. It doesn't help town anyway... Lastly I was accused of behaving scummy by Kav. Kavdragon United States. March 27 2011 15:45. Posts 558 Tackster looks really scummy from those PM's if you ask me. Why would a townie claim? It seems much more likely that scum (can't be black anymore) would claim green, because they aren't thinking about the fact that everyone is passively claiming green in the item game. (Cause, you know...If you're not green...) Not working with Annul until he's "confirmed"? Wtf? That's not how it works! You PM people, and make plans so that you can analyse what they are doing! You don't ignore them, waiting for some magical confirmation that they are town! Why would a townie claim? Because I was making a point about trying to confirm each other were green. Your scumtell there is the fact that i mentioned a colour... Not really a scumtell... As you can see in Annul's posts of his PMs (and I can post them again if you want) I didn't refuse to talk to him or gauge his reactions. I simply stated that I'm not going to consider working together until we're both clear. It's a simple point - just because you clear someone doesn't mean you can trust working with them as they haven't cleared you and may be lying to you if they think you're scum. I would refer you to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=3974110 As I was beginning my first game of forum mafia I read up on the Tips forum pages and so on. As you can see that post describes my behaviour from a mafia POV. I simply decided it works for town as well. Am I scum for trying to learn from more experienced players? So as far as my reads go I know i'm green and I feel that annul is pretty green as well. That means that if I am correct either Jackal or Coag are scum and have gone with this entire plan just so that they could confuse things and end up in one of the pro-scum situations I mentioned earlier. If lemon is scum then he's having a really good first game. In case I die tonight I want to make this clear for tomorrow: ##FOS Jackal again. Even if he isn't scum he still is going to bollox up this game for town. I think no pro-town vigs should shoot tonight. I would LOVE medic protection tonight but I imagine I won't get any. As usual my afternoon begins when this thread dies down so I'll try and check in every so often and see where this whole mess is going... | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
As you can see from annuls outing of his posts I did indeed talk to him, assess his reads, give him some preemptory reads of mine and check him in general. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
If you want town to win the item game over reds (which I assume you do) kill Lemon tonight. | ||
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