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Jackal, you haven't clarified this:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote:On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote:
I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him.
But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin....
What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to.
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On February 25 2011 00:07 icemac wrote:
Also, I'm not jumping into this Jackal58 bandwagon because I'm not bad. Lynch me if you will.
-You have claimed any analysis done on day 1 is useless
-You are voting for someone who is going to get modkilled anyway, essentially wasting a lynch
While voting/pressuring inactives is a good idea in principal, it does allow mafia to get away with an 'easy' lynch in some cases. For today there are much better lynches (annul...) imo. If you are going to go after inactives, why not people who were posting a lot pre-game and haven't done anything substantial since.
Conversion gave us this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=16#320
and then disappeared.
Chaoser seems to be lurking a fair bit (though he did say he was missing sleep)
Coag: I haven't seen anything proper from him really apart from:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=31#614
But yet, you continue to just throw away your vote.
On February 24 2011 22:41 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 22:35 deconduo wrote:Jackal, you haven't clarified this: + Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote:On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote:
I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him.
But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. I did explain it. Go ahead and post PM content. Go ahead and get comfy with it. Go ahead and watch scum use that to destroy town at end game. I think it's a horrid idea.
I honestly 100% don't understand your logic. From what I can gather you are saying the following. In a lylo situation, 2 mafia 3 town say. Person A + B post PMs showing C is mafia. C denies it and says they are faked. Now according to you,
i)If no PMs were posted previously, people A+B would be lynched.
ii)If a couple of PMs had been posted previously, and people were 'comfy' with it, C would be lynched.
How you managed to get here I have no clue whatsoever. There must be some huge step in logic that I'm missing as to what universe you think this would happen in.
Gryff:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 22:14 gryffindor wrote:Cell 1, Cell leader: Coagulation + Show Spoiler + 1. 5. Jackal58
2. 17. astroorion
3. 1. Coagulation Cell 2, Cell leader: kitaman27 + Show Spoiler + 4. 19. Gofarman
5. 21. kitaman27
6. 12. icemac Cell 3, Cell leader: IDC, they're all competant + Show Spoiler + 7. 6. Kenpachi
8. 2. LSB
9. 26. LunarDestiny Cell 4, Cell leader: Barundar + Show Spoiler + 10. 30. LastArgument
11. 3. Barundar
12. 9. gryffindor Cell 5, Cell leader: deconduo + Show Spoiler + 13. 16. ohN
14. 28. deconduo
15. 8. annul Cell 6, Cell leader: Foolishness + Show Spoiler + 16. 18. Foolishness
17. 27. Ser Aspi
18. 22. kevconsim Cell 7, Cell leader: Seraph/Mr. Wiggles + Show Spoiler +19. 11. Beneather
20. 15. seRapH
21. 24. Mr. Wiggles Cell 8, Cell leader: OriginalName + Show Spoiler + 22. 14. JBright
23. 23. ICanFlyLow
24. 13. OriginalName Cell 9, Cell leader: Chaoser + Show Spoiler + 25. 7. darmousseh
26. 25. chaoser
27. 20. Conversion MaxwellE Cell 10, Cell leader: Cubedin + Show Spoiler +28. 4. CubEdIn
29. 29. why
30. 10. GMarshal
Now, the "leader" to me is someone who needs to go out of their way to actually collaborate with the other people in their group. If you don't want to use my list of cells, and want to use GMarshal's, whatever. I have a good list I just made right here ready for us to use. Basically, the leaders need to go out of their way to make this work. I am fully confident in these peoples abilities to report what is going on within your cell, and to hold people accountable.
WTF that was the scummiest part of GMarshal's plan (prearranging the cells) and you go out and repeat it? AFAIK there is no VI role in the game so I have no idea what you are doing.
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EBWOP: Ninja'd by kita, but still.....
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You have some explaining to do gryff.
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On February 25 2011 04:13 gryffindor wrote:
yeah unvote
i don't feel like i have shit to explain, either, deconduo
you want me to post that PM from you about your scummy idea?
I didn't think so
I could make a GREAT case on you right now, a very convincing one, but I'm not convinced yet myself. Call me a VI again, though, and that will change.
I apologize if you feel like I have hurt the integrity of your game, RoL, and I would replace out if you so desire.
Sure, post away. Unlike Jackal I have no problems with what I posted in PMs being quoted and shown in the thread if the person posting them has a legitimate reason.
If you think genuinely think one of my ideas is scummy (and I really don't know what you are talking about) or that I am scummy then go ahead and build a case. I will gladly respond to whatever you say you have.
Or you know, go ahead and continue to drop subtle passive aggressive hints. 'I could get you lynched if you bother me, so back off' I find blackmail pretty scummy, what about you?
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On February 25 2011 04:29 gryffindor wrote:
It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you.
You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is.
+ Show Spoiler +To gryffindor:One of the main parts of the cell idea is that no claims are made. -_- Its NOT a town circle, its an idea circle. This post describes it better than I can: Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 01:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The whole PM issue is one that has gone back and forth for awhile, some for some against. I think it comes down to not so much the hating of PM's but how they are used.
When the games first started circles were formed in them, but the pming also heavily relied on what I like to think of as an "idea circle" or anything on those lines.
People would get together, fully expecting 1 or more of the people they are talking to to be mafia. Rather than discussing role distribution, the group would talk about strategies that could be used, behavioural analyze as a group, clue analyze as a group. There was alot of information being shared, and due to the nature of the group everyone had to participate somehow. Eventually people may end up claiming, but the idea was more on finding reds than confirming town.
I am not sure where this whole stance of confirming town circles and just offing people came from (an active mafia team should easily destroy this unless game is horrrribly town favoured).
If pm's were used as they were in the past, or as the people I routinely pm'd in games did, I believe the skill level would rise.
I could be horribly wrong on this, but I just think the concept of how to use pm's got lost somewhere along the way. Show nested quote +Original Message From gryffindor: I was just really nervous. The reaction testing thing from me is null. I do that regardless of alignment. However, I have been posting lengthier posts, something I did not do in Orgah at all. I am for the Cell idea, actually, so long as claiming waits for confirmation. We don't need any unnecessary claiming. Original Message From deconduo: First off, I think cells are a good idea. I really don't understand how you think they could have any negative effect. Same with annul. Point I was trying to make was that when I wanted to do something to appear townish I handpicked the cell to my advantage. Thats why I was suspicious of GMarshal doing the same thing. You are posting a bit more, but the general style is the same. Lots of reaction testing and weird moves. I'm assuming you posted less in orgah to stay out of the spotlight as you were SK. Original Message From gryffindor: you setup pm circles as scum you like pm circles this game you are scum? that's what i'm getting from that as to how i'm acting this game vs that, i completely disagree with you Original Message From deconduo: Nothing much yet, just got to the thread. I like GMarshal's idea for cells and was going to suggest it myself. I don't like how he 'arranged' them though. If it helps, here is the one I set up from orgah: + Show Spoiler +To: Coagulation, GMarshal, Mr. Wiggles Town are in trouble in this game. It is rampant with inactivity and I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. As such, I'm proposing we form a PM circle in an attempt to collaborate and talk. I have chose you because I feel you are active without having done anything scummy. Darmousseh was meant to be part of the circle also, and in fact it was him that gave me the idea, but unfortunately he was modkilled for roleclaiming to me without realising it was against the rules. I'm not saying that I trust any of you, in fact I'm quite sure at least one of you is mafia or at least anti-town. However this is more about comparing ideas and talking, as suggested in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181300¤tpage=2#29Please let me know if you are interested. GeneralHankerchief http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/P2Q2Za9db76b5As for your alignment, you seem to be playing similar to orgah. What that means I don't know. Original Message From gryffindor:
do you have any reads so far?
what do you believe i am aligned?
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On February 25 2011 04:33 gryffindor wrote:OK, listen up guys, this is pitiful the amount of people voting, and the size of the wagons. We only have 5 people(soon to be six on one) on the major wagons, how are we going to properly analyze voting with all of these split votes and cases? We need to consolidate to see who swings late, and start building associative tells based around the flips. I know we will be able to do that through scumhunting, and I have been trying to do that as well, but wagon analysis is key to catching scum associatively. Annul - 6 Gofarman deconduo Ser Aspi LSB astroorion Gryffindor Icemac - 5 why kevonism seraph ICanFlyLow OriginalName People who need to pick one of the above, because their votes are on people with 2 or less: coagulation Jackal58 Barundar Darmousseh chaoser Jbright annul If your name isn't here, I either missed you or you're not voting. I'm sorry, or you're sorry!  We've got 7-8 hours, from my recollection. Let's do something about it. People on 1-2 person wagons need to get on either Icemac or Annul. Vote: Annul Reasoning: Bandwagonning, and LSB believing he is scum. I also like the wagon more, excluding astroorion who I feel will probably come off of it due to being Annul's scumbuddy.
At least we agree on who to lynch, annul has been nothing but scummy this entire game.
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On February 25 2011 04:51 annul wrote:
i also would like to see the logic behind "i have been nothing but scummy all game"
what, specifically, have i done? i called out a bad idea and voted based on it. what else?
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 12:47 annul wrote:
okay hi peeps
vote chaoser. that post reeks of redness.
p.s. still no role PM! No explanationOn February 23 2011 12:55 annul wrote:
it reeks of red because he is like "hey so theres weak powers in this game lol" which can only be known if he is a red, since if he was green he cant make that blanket claim and if he was a blue, he'd even be less inclined to make that claim
the only way he can do that is if he is red and he sees the red team has weak or no powers Gets pressured for an explanation and comes up with this nonsensical beauty. Chaoser said 'I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about.' There is nothing wrong or scummy about that post, annul just twisting it to his benefitOn February 23 2011 13:31 annul wrote:
pretty sure its better for people to post things in the thread -- much easier to catch red slips that way.
if people only post in these mini town circles, then people are probably more inclined psychologically to trust their town circle and not consider them red, etc.
So you have a degree in psychology now?On February 24 2011 11:24 annul wrote:
i dont really know why it takes more than one post to inform a vote
the cells idea was absolute garbage. so i am pointing at him. the whole "HEY LOL WE HAVE WEAK ROLES" is a ridic tell as well. what more analysis is there to do? Who gives you absolute authority on what is a good or bad idea? Regardless, why does proposing a bad idea make you scum? I already talked about the weak role thing.On February 24 2011 11:39 annul wrote:
ok well i mean
i have great reads on both of them, but i dont know what else i need to say about it. can you tell me why chaoser and GM are NOT red?
the cells idea is horrible. why do we want to keep analysis private? there is no point in "bouncing off ideas" to a RNG "town circle". this only hurts us. why keep analysis of any type from the town? also, the point of these town circles is what exactly? to have people critique any analysis before "revealing" it? ok assume that is the case, then what happens when the mafia are in these cells? player A says "OK so i got an analysis on player D (outside the cell), who i think is mafia" player B says "no thats horrible, ________" and convinces A. A now doesnt say anything, to not look stupid (that IS the point of these cells, after all!). oops, B and D are mafia. we're fucked.
if A just came out and said "hey i have this analysis" B is probably less likely to defend D if it's blatant redness Because person A is a good enough player to do a proper analysis but dumb enough to not post it when B says 'lol thats bad' yeah.On February 24 2011 12:01 annul wrote:
i dont think circles actually force people to think. they inhibit it. and circles with mafia in them can really fuck with the townies. Opinion. How does it inhibit it?On February 24 2011 12:33 annul wrote:
here is the funny thing. LSB is probably upset at me for what i did to him the last mafia game, so he is going to try to do the same thing to me that i did to him. i see it coming.
does it make sense? ofc not. is there literally anyone out there who actually likes this cell idea? i expect the rest of the reds to come out! I like the cell idea. I'm in a cell with people who like the cell idea.On February 24 2011 14:18 annul wrote:
TL towns are generally bad so i dont doubt lots of people like it. its still a very bad plan. i really, really do not understand why predetermined RNGed "circles" have any benefit whatsoever
maybe he is just another town who is also bad and came up with a bad idea, but ;\ Attacking everyone, repeating that its bad. You even say that he could be a townie with a bad idea but still vote for him? Summary:-Flawed logic. Bad idea does not mean scummy, you even admit this yourself -Lots of people think the cells idea is a good one, Are they all mafia too? -Flawed logic. You take one line of chaoser's and completely twist it out of proportion to call him scummy. -You don't really say or do anything else.
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On February 25 2011 05:05 gryffindor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:36 deconduo wrote:On February 25 2011 04:29 gryffindor wrote:
It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you. You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is. + Show Spoiler +To gryffindor:One of the main parts of the cell idea is that no claims are made. -_- Its NOT a town circle, its an idea circle. This post describes it better than I can: Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 01:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The whole PM issue is one that has gone back and forth for awhile, some for some against. I think it comes down to not so much the hating of PM's but how they are used.
When the games first started circles were formed in them, but the pming also heavily relied on what I like to think of as an "idea circle" or anything on those lines.
People would get together, fully expecting 1 or more of the people they are talking to to be mafia. Rather than discussing role distribution, the group would talk about strategies that could be used, behavioural analyze as a group, clue analyze as a group. There was alot of information being shared, and due to the nature of the group everyone had to participate somehow. Eventually people may end up claiming, but the idea was more on finding reds than confirming town.
I am not sure where this whole stance of confirming town circles and just offing people came from (an active mafia team should easily destroy this unless game is horrrribly town favoured).
If pm's were used as they were in the past, or as the people I routinely pm'd in games did, I believe the skill level would rise.
I could be horribly wrong on this, but I just think the concept of how to use pm's got lost somewhere along the way. Show nested quote +Original Message From gryffindor: I was just really nervous. The reaction testing thing from me is null. I do that regardless of alignment. However, I have been posting lengthier posts, something I did not do in Orgah at all. I am for the Cell idea, actually, so long as claiming waits for confirmation. We don't need any unnecessary claiming. Original Message From deconduo: First off, I think cells are a good idea. I really don't understand how you think they could have any negative effect. Same with annul. Point I was trying to make was that when I wanted to do something to appear townish I handpicked the cell to my advantage. Thats why I was suspicious of GMarshal doing the same thing. You are posting a bit more, but the general style is the same. Lots of reaction testing and weird moves. I'm assuming you posted less in orgah to stay out of the spotlight as you were SK. Original Message From gryffindor: you setup pm circles as scum you like pm circles this game you are scum? that's what i'm getting from that as to how i'm acting this game vs that, i completely disagree with you Original Message From deconduo: Nothing much yet, just got to the thread. I like GMarshal's idea for cells and was going to suggest it myself. I don't like how he 'arranged' them though. If it helps, here is the one I set up from orgah: + Show Spoiler +To: Coagulation, GMarshal, Mr. Wiggles Town are in trouble in this game. It is rampant with inactivity and I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. As such, I'm proposing we form a PM circle in an attempt to collaborate and talk. I have chose you because I feel you are active without having done anything scummy. Darmousseh was meant to be part of the circle also, and in fact it was him that gave me the idea, but unfortunately he was modkilled for roleclaiming to me without realising it was against the rules. I'm not saying that I trust any of you, in fact I'm quite sure at least one of you is mafia or at least anti-town. However this is more about comparing ideas and talking, as suggested in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181300¤tpage=2#29Please let me know if you are interested. GeneralHankerchief http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/P2Q2Za9db76b5As for your alignment, you seem to be playing similar to orgah. What that means I don't know. Original Message From gryffindor:
do you have any reads so far?
what do you believe i am aligned? you cut out the part that I was concerned with, actually
I didn't change or cut anything.
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On February 25 2011 05:35 annul wrote:
1 and 2: "no explanation" and then "oh wait he gave an explanation i just don't like it"
No, you voted without giving any reasoning. You only gave a pathetically weak explanation later on when you were pressured to.
3: don't use ad hominems; is my CLAIM false? who cares if i have a "psych degree" - it makes sense. nobody in TL mafia has a psych degree and there are psych analyses done all the time
Fair enough. I give you this one.
4: i have the absolute authority to make value judgments that inform my vote. people asked why, so i told them. it still is a bad idea.
You ignore the second and third part...
5: you assume i refer to proper analysis. maybe just a "i think D is scum because (reason why)" -- it doesnt need to be PBPA or anything detailed for B to influence A and tell them to stfu.
So its 'blatant redness' but only one person noticed it.
6: well, you are bad, then.
k
7: yes, the idea is still bad.
Ignoring the point again
so basically you think i am red for railing against an idea that inherently harms the town? cool ok
No. For saying stuff like 'Vote GM + chaoser lawl' For coming up with shit reasons to explain your scummy votes. For focusing on an idea instead of on the player.
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On February 25 2011 05:47 Foolishness wrote:
Vote: Annul
So what gives you the right to pop in out of nowhere and drop a vote on the bandwagon?
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Ok, good lynch guys. I have no idea what sort of a dumb play he was making but we'll see soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he was bussing LSB or GMarshal or something, especially as GMarshal tried to save him in the last minute. One thing that puzzles me is that the people trying to 'save' annul all spread out their votes as opposed to focusing on trying to lynch one person.
I would scrutinise everyone voting for icemac. Reading through the thread it really does look like people tried to divert the wagon onto him.
My biggest FOS by far right now is gryffindor.
-Fucks around with fake claims
-Attempts to blackmail me
-Claims I edited the PMs I posted which is a barefaced lie
-Tells everyone that they have to vote for icemac or annul. If everyone who left the annul BW changed to icemac he wouldn't have been lynched at all. But gryff conveniently leaves his vote on annul so he can claim 'look I lynched the scum' if the play doesn't work. (which it didn't)
-Incident with the 'sarcasm' While he is probably telling the truth it doesn't mean we should ignore it completely.
-Long drawn out argument with GMarshal about the cell idea, yet suddenly agrees with him and votes annul instead. I honestly think that GMarshal + gryffindor staged that to some extent. There was something fishy there.
Would suggest him as a DT check target.
While DTs + cops are unreliable, we should at least use the threat of them to force mafia to waste KP covering/framing.
I'm going home for the weekend, and its a long, tiring trip. I probably won't be online again until tomorrow.
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Vote: Gryffindor
Lying, scummy etc. If your only defense is 'I voted annul' you are going to need something a lot better. Even your 'vote' for him was scummy.
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@Gryff
-Comparing your own playstyles means nothing. Also SK is played differently than mafia.
-Saying 'I would do this, I wouldn't do that' means nothing.
-You lied, you haven't explained why you lied. I do not agree with LAL, but if you go and do something and then not give any explanation or reasoning behind it I'm going to keep my vote on you.
@Others
-GMarshal, I feel you gotta step up. It looks like you tried to save annul near the end.
-Coag, want to explain that vote? I've been suspicious of you all game and that doesn't help
-Kenpachi, Ser Aspi, JBright I want to hear more from you.
-Ohn, why, LastArgument;I know you are newer players but I think you've been playing well enough so far. You should post your opinions a bit more if possible.
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Good analysis, I agree with most of the points. However, I can't vote LSB ahead of someone who has repeatedly lied, changed his opinions from black to white and posts like this:
On February 27 2011 21:17 gryffindor wrote:
I'm not going to take hours to compose a defense
I would also be vary wary of ANYONE posting like this:
On February 27 2011 22:21 Jackal58 wrote:
Barundar, I was strongly suspecting you as being scum creating a "false" argument with LSB. A tit for tat that would sew enough doubt in everybody's mind to allow a 3rd candidate to get pushed to the lynch. But after your Homeric epic on LSB I feel that I must dismiss that idea. I don't believe Scum would go that far in a charade. Instead of believing you both to be scum I am fairly certain one of you surely is. However I am not 100% sure which.
However I will be after today's lynch. As I've said before this is a numbers game.
I am playing them now. Town still has a large numerical advantage. If LSB flips green you are surely scum and will be dealt with tomorrow.
UNVOTE: Gryffindor
VOTE: LSB
On February 28 2011 00:29 chaoser wrote:
if it's btw you and him...I highly doubt you are mafia in my eyes because of that post...jesus...
Why have the two of you completely discounted the possibility of both of them being town?
@LSB
Thats not much of a defense.
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On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote:Barundar's contradiction (again)Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote:LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote:
At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness.
In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same
Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference.
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Yeah, thats enough for me but I'm still lynching gryff tomorrow.
##Unvote
##Vote LSB
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As far as I can see LSB is just trying to get an extra day by getting Barun lynched first. He's not even defending himself.
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Why does everyone ignore me...
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To explain why I'm getting pissed off at this game, and why I posted this:
On February 28 2011 04:16 deconduo wrote:
Why does everyone ignore me...
First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem:
On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote:
Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing.
I'd like to know why I am the only one concerned about gryffindor and his lie.
Essentially he paints it as a difference in opinion instead of responding to any of my questions or hypothetical scenarios. I point it out and no one picks up on it.
LSB reponds to Barundar's analysis of him with a hugely hugely bad and flawed argument. I'm the only one that picks up on it, and I point it out. LSB and everyone else ignores it and just continues on as if nothing happened:
On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote:Barundar's contradiction (again)On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote:LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote:
At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness.
In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference.
Finally, gryffindor lies, blackmails etc. I call him out on it. Not only does he not defend himself, everyone else just walks on by as if nothing happened:
On February 26 2011 00:06 deconduo wrote:
Ok, good lynch guys. I have no idea what sort of a dumb play he was making but we'll see soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he was bussing LSB or GMarshal or something, especially as GMarshal tried to save him in the last minute. One thing that puzzles me is that the people trying to 'save' annul all spread out their votes as opposed to focusing on trying to lynch one person.
I would scrutinise everyone voting for icemac. Reading through the thread it really does look like people tried to divert the wagon onto him.
My biggest FOS by far right now is gryffindor.
-Fucks around with fake claims
-Attempts to blackmail me
-Claims I edited the PMs I posted which is a barefaced lie
-Tells everyone that they have to vote for icemac or annul. If everyone who left the annul BW changed to icemac he wouldn't have been lynched at all. But gryff conveniently leaves his vote on annul so he can claim 'look I lynched the scum' if the play doesn't work. (which it didn't)
-Incident with the 'sarcasm' While he is probably telling the truth it doesn't mean we should ignore it completely.
-Long drawn out argument with GMarshal about the cell idea, yet suddenly agrees with him and votes annul instead. I honestly think that GMarshal + gryffindor staged that to some extent. There was something fishy there.
Would suggest him as a DT check target.
While DTs + cops are unreliable, we should at least use the threat of them to force mafia to waste KP covering/framing.
I'm going home for the weekend, and its a long, tiring trip. I probably won't be online again until tomorrow.
Maybe bright red might help.
Gryffindor lied about me editing PMs and has not said anything more on the matter or defended himself on it.
Also cute, saying I'm from the UK. It won't make me mad, it will just make me try my damned best to get you lynched.
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EPT
