TL Mafia XXVIII
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Infundibulum
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Infundibulum
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Worst case scenario for town is 6 days at 3 town members/day at which point 18 townies are dead and numbers are equal. However given mafia vote swinging and town inactivity/stupidity, 5 missed lynches is probably our cutoff point for certain death. I haven't taken the time to do precise math, but it seems to me that blue roles in our setup slightly favor town, however if i'm reading the rules right the mafia have 2kp until they get down to 3 members, which is nice for them. DT's can day 1 check if they want, though i dunno if this is a really great idea since it would mostly be a blind rolecheck. But i also don't want to say 'don't do it all.' DT's should not go down the list for their rolechecks though. This is a dumb idea and we simply don't have the luxury of time. I think DT should use his analysis and intuition to check suspicious players, like normal. | ||
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if we lynch an inactive we're killing someone who probably would not have helped us anyway however, i don't want to lynch someone that would just get modkilled since that's obviously a waste. Bill, how many votes can someone miss before they get zapped? | ||
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here's the thing that you guys need to realize that some other people have already pointed out: 1. No lynch (all abstain) is anti town and allows mafia to eke out a lynch on a green 2. RNG lynch is only slightly less bad with a higher chance hitting a blue than a red 3. We should be using our day 1 lynch to kill someone who is being STUPID. This way we either kill a stupid townie (a burden) or a stupid mafia (yay!) 4. Don't PM Opz. | ||
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i think BC and citizen have made a salient observation of youngminii's posting behavior, and it is currently the most interesting development to me. i await his inevitable response before i cast any judgments though, since i haven't played in a game with youngminii and they have. | ||
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if the question you are asking is "do i think hyperbola's post was stupid?", then i'd have to answer "yes." i'm never one to hastily champion any cause though, and i think the voting train on hyperbola was far too early. Say a better target comes along, it can be hard to get enough people to change their votes. As it is, Hyperbola has been pretty unhelpful so far, whether he is town side or not, so i can't say i'd be too upset if he dies. Pyrr's vote is interesting because DTA is also unhelpful, but I thought DTA was joking too. We all know sarcasm doesn't translate too well as text, but i thought that was easy to pick up. But pyrr is right about the rest of his posts. I'm going out for the rest of the day and i dunno if i'll be back in time for the deadline. I'm gonna put my vote on youngminii, just in case anything happens in that direction. Otherwise i hope you guys are smart enough not to screw things up while i'm gone :p #vote youngminii | ||
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anyway your defense up there only addresses 1 thing that BC and citizen pointed out, which was the initial sentence. maybe you were joking (a reasonable explanation, i do admit, and i read it that way at first for what it's worth), maybe you weren't. but what about asking the already answered questions? what about obvious blue advice that any blue knows? what about telling the town it's a good idea to abstain? (it's not) citizen didn't say that you weren't strong as i saw it, rather he said those kinds of mistakes were not something he would expect from you. see, this is why i wrote that "just in case," since i know i'm not gonna be here my vote has a chance of being useless so i'm taking a gambit with a person that i think could be a lynch target as the night deadline rolls around. i knew you would come and have something to say; obviously just not this soon (sooner than me lol). sorry, but you haven't convinced me to move my vote. | ||
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On July 18 2010 21:46 youngminii wrote: There was only one thing that they did point out and that's the only thing that was directed at me, hence I responded to it. Obvious blue advice? Really? Do you honestly believe that all 30 people in this thread know exactly how to play blue? Do you really think that each and every new person in here knows how to play their role perfectly? So in the case of all 30 people knowing the exact way to play without any discussions as to any plans we should just leave it at that and not discuss our options? You can't be that stupid, I refuse to believe it. Obvious blue advice: Just for some pre-emptive planning for the night: DTs check 'good' players, especially players that are unlikely to go inactive. Medics should protect whoever they want, generally you'd want to protect the person that seems the most towny and frequently posts. Of course, if you feel that you should be doing something else, you should trust your instincts. I do not believe all 30 people in this game are perfect blue players, but then again most people aren't. On top of this, I never suggested such a scenario in the first place and you are putting words in my mouth. The question is why are you resorting to such arguing tactics? Do you need to make up my arguments for me so that you can counter them? I echoed citizen's previous statement that your blue "advice" is completely useless. There is a lot to learn about playing as a blue, but nothing in that bit of text offers anything new to anybody here. Seriously. Also, what already answered questions? Back up your statements with evidence please. I admit that here I was echoing citizen without reading back in the thread to see if he was correct. It looks lie this is a non-issue. you did ask about stuff that was clearly visible in the rules, but you also said you were tired and i miss stuff in the rules all the time so can't fault you on that. charge cleared. How is telling the town to abstain not a good idea? I'm willing to accept criticism of my ideas, but I'm not willing to just sit back and watch as someone comes in, votes for me as a placeholder in case a bandwagon is formed on me (which I suppose is pre-emptive bandwagoning) and then says my ideas are not good. Information Instead of Analysis. In fact, IIoA is a big scumtell in my experiences in other mafia sites (not sure about TL since this site is actually quite a lot different). Myself and several others have already explained the faulty logic of no lynch day 1. Basically, the crux of the argument is this: The Town does not have the luxury of time. This argument was also the basis of my criticism of the dt check-down-the-list plan. And i didn't try to start a bandwagon on you, if you would the kindly note the lack of persuasive language and overall tentative tone of that initial post i made, which was mostly about other players and not you specifically. Despite this, you've gone to considerable lengths to defend yourself from my single vote, which i thin at least 1 other player has pointed out. And maybe i'm misunderstanding the term, but what does IIOA have to do with this? I never said citi.zen said I was good. In fact, I implied citi.zen said I was quite bad. I don't critique citi.zen's play because as far as I can tell, people seem to believe his meta is good but if he continues to critique me, so be it. I don't care. Citizen said you were good and that the mistakes in your post were unbecoming of your play style. You thought he was saying you are bad; i was correcting this. Your 'just in case' is the same as bandwagoning, except you're doing it early. You think there might be a chance that people will start voting for me so you put your vote on me 'just in case'. Biggest hidden form of bandwagoning imo. I had already said i'd be gone all day. Why would I vote for a player who i was sure wouldn't be lynched (like, say, Roffles)? I want my vote to count. Otherwise I might as well abstain, and I think i've made clear my feelings on abstaining. My conclusion: You're either a really bad scum, really bad townie, or a fucking bad blue. Cut the bullshit. I'm here to play mafia, not to read other players post "LOL UR BAD" | ||
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*goes to bed* | ||
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On July 19 2010 23:29 Jayme wrote: Okay that told us absolutely nothing besides the fact that BrownBear apparently doesn't like to rectify mistakes and that Foolishness gets vibes. don't knock him for info gathering. these things are important to keep track of during the game. | ||
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On July 20 2010 07:44 Foolishness wrote: So if I'm understanding this, youngminii was ahead in the votes, then BrownBear and bumatlarge voted for Hyperbola, which pushed Hyperbola ahead in the voting (and he stayed ahead until day end). So it's possible there was a push to save youngminii from being lynched. Of course please correct me if I'm mistaken. The people above me who are doing the vote tally are very very very unorganized with their posts. I had to map the votes in excel to make it easier to analyze. Before bum and BB voted for hyper, the count was 5-4 in Hyperbolas favor. So they vote, and the tally is Hyperbola 7, Youngminii 4. DTA and ketomai each had two votes. Jayme votes for youngminii to make it 7-5. Then, misder and zeks switch their votes to Laxercannon and abstain, respectively. So the count is now 5-5. Finally, subversion comes in and drops his vote on Hyperbola. 6-5. Siniquity's analysis has detailed the important parts of this pretty well, i think. | ||
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On July 20 2010 13:44 Subversion wrote: Not sure about the block of votes for Hyperbola, seems if it was a scum-instigated thing they could have easily spread it out more? Might have just been a bunch of townies jumping on the bandwagon. Although, I would guess there's a good chance there's one or two mafia in there, who saw an opportunity to jump on a townie vote. You speak of this voting block as though you weren't part of it... an important part too. | ||
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On July 20 2010 14:25 BrownBear wrote: If everyone is dead set on lynching me, though, then 2 things: I'm not even going to bother, and you all seriously need to reevaluate your playstyles. uh, what? so you make a bunch of shitty posts, people call you out on it, and you tell them that they're the ones playing badly? | ||
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On July 20 2010 14:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Okay, so someone survived a hit last night. Should the medic and victim claim to each other? Alternatively, should the veteran role claim? I know we've had vets role claim after being hit in the past, but it does give the mafia more info that could help them plan out further hits. Oh, also I suppose the mafia might have really really wanted Foolishness dead and put two hits on him. Or only sent in one hit but I don't think any team would ever agree to that unless it was led by the dark triumvirate of oczec darth and chezinu. And even then darth already admitted he wants as much blood to spill as possible. well according to day post, both the victim and the medic get a PM from the mod so claiming to each other should be safe unless i'm missing some obvious hole here in my tired state. If a vet was hit, he should NOT role claim imo, as i think it gives away too much info (the mafia don't know if it was a med protect or a vet) I think you're right that a double stack is really unlikely. If nobody steps forward to claim the 2nd hit, then it is possible i guess. Whoever took the 2nd hit needs to state it publicly in the thread. The mafia already knows who they hit; there is no disadvantage and the town benefits from this info. | ||
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On July 20 2010 14:35 BrownBear wrote: Not what I meant. What I meant was, if I stop making a bunch of shitty posts and play like the townie that I am, and people decide to lynch me anyway, they aren't playing well. Learn to read before jumping on people under suspicion, it really doesn't help their case. You not playing well got you in this situation in the first place. But, I and probably many other people would be glad to see you turn over a new leaf and make some positive contributions. p.s. Elucidate your points and you won't have the problem of people misinterpreting your posts. | ||
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the only way a fake claim would work is if foolishness was double tapped but then only a troll or a red would claim | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:14 BrownBear wrote: He doesn't have to roleclaim, dude. He just has to say "i'm vet" or "i'm not". If he isn't, medic is going to keep protecting him anyway, and if he is, mafia will more than likely just leave him alone. i don't think we want to give the mafia any extra information. it doesn't matter to us whether d3 is a vet or not, but it matters very much to the mafia. | ||
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1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as) and 2) mafia will snipe other blues basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects. we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players. i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea. | ||
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1. the town wants the mafia to inadvertently waste hits on vets 2. vets claiming practically guarantees that this will not happen | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:37 youngminii wrote: Why are we sure our first vet has lost his life? Some guy got protected by a medic. no, we just know that d3 took a hit. not whether he is vet or was protected (or i guess both is possible to lol) | ||
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but don't forget we need to decide when to use our first double lynch | ||
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On July 20 2010 20:18 Jayme wrote: You have to balance the fact that you have a central confirmed townie with which to operate from. Randomly hitting a Vet is so rare as it is that I just don't see a huge benefit in keeping them hidden when one has obviously been hit...or the medic got a really lucky protection on someone. I personally like the vet claiming idea because on their own they are a pretty weak blue role. the problems are that the vet needs to be verified by DT checks (takes at least 1 day), and there is a risk of godfather infiltration. Vet is usually a pretty safe choice for gf to claim if they don't want to claim townie. we also need to be able to get enough info to the vet, and organize everything before he becomes enough of a threat to the mafia that they would even think about dropping 2 hits on him instead of spreading out the kills. the other problem is the suicide bomber. if the vet ever actually becomes dangerous enough they can just blow him up. | ||
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7. xelin 10. lakrismamma 14. SouthRawrea 30. roffles My thoughts on lynch candidates so far: DTA - probable town, based on his behavior towards Foolishness. BB - unsure. Subversion - inexperienced townie. Right not my spidey sense is tingling and i'm pretty sure that a lot of the recent posts are just town infighting while the mafia sits back and watches. The players on my list up there, and the ones who are attempting to slip under the radar with 1-2 posts since Day 2 are the kind of people we need to keep an eye on. | ||
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On July 21 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I'm really not feeling Subversion as red at this point. The voting was not particularly close, and even if it was, BM's counting was making it look otherwise. Haven't changed my thoughts on Brown Bear either. @Infundibulum: You said "DTA - probable town, based on his behavior towards Foolishness." I got the opposite vibe from that, I'd just like to hear some more detail on why you felt that way. The voting was extremely close, actually. It was 5-5 when he voted for Hyper, though he says he thought it was 7-4, and to be fair this is possible since there were mistakes in the vote tally and they weren't counted often. It's Subversions reactions that make me think he might be town who screwed up and is now in over his head. Well if you look back around page 27 or so, DTA basically goes all out on Foolishness quoting all of his posts, asking "are you so innocent yourself?" And then Foolishness gets killed by the mafia at night. I know that this is a bit of wifom, but i find it hard to think that a red would put himself out like that starting a feud with someone he was targeting. | ||
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i'm not convinced about any of the lynch candidates so far, so i'll wait on that. | ||
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Re: DTA - I should thank pyrr for doing a really thorough analysis here. I do think it's possible the mafia took that gambit of not killing DTA to make him appear more red (see Foolish's quote... "if the mafia don't kill you tonight you're red" [that was paraphrased]). So, I want to see how he responds to Pyrr's accusation before I decide if I want to vote for him. The pressures pretty strong already. ANd i gotta say i'm all but convinced on this one. On July 21 2010 14:27 youngminii wrote: My suspicion on infindouwioej4l5k23wtgjfxvpcohinkium is still here, it's just a lot smaller than everything else going on right now. It's "Infundibulum." | ||
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On July 21 2010 23:19 Roffles wrote: Yawn, just gonna pitch in my two liner here and say that Subversion's slip up doesn't really strike me as a real mafia slip up, just a minor error by a newbie. As for BrownBear, I dunno really. His defense arguments seem townie enough, but I'm still wary of his vote, read, then no change on the vote tactic from Day 1. Aside from DTA's antics, I think we're on the wrong path here, but that's just a hunch. You know i agree with this, but people have been saying these exact same things for several pages now... | ||
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On July 22 2010 03:00 Pandain wrote: Lynching Subversion will gain us NO info whatsoever, since I believe he is NOT mafia This isn't true. We get a lot of info even if he's town side, because a lot of the town is divided in two camps for and against subversion. | ||
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On July 22 2010 07:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: An infundibulum (Latin for funnel; plural, infundibula) is a funnel-shape cavity or organ. 1. chronosynclastic infundibulum n. A point in space where, upon a person entering it, that person's existence in space-time ceases to be linear, becoming discrete. This means that a person that has entered a chronosynclastic infundibulum exists at multiple points and lines in space-time. For example, such a person could exist at all points in time in one place and also appear at another point for five minutes. From Kurt Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan." | ||
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So far I haven't seen a single convincing analysis; it just looks like people are voting for him because other people are voting for him. | ||
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I don't see the contradiction between chaoser abstaining and then being against day 1 no lynch. In his abstain post, he said he was abstaining "for now.". Yeah, he doesn't change his vote, but all things considered, him abstaining is less suspicious to me than if he had voted for Hyperbola. Your post summaries from here use some really leading and biased language that I do not think accurately reflects the content of chaoser's posts. Anybody reading those summaries should notice this. These are the important parts of what he said: I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? and then, later: Also, I'm going to put in my vote for Subversion. So far I don't know how I feel about BrownBear. At first I wanted to vote him. He's been playing badly and didn't do anything day one...<snip>...Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left. Is there anything wrong with changing your mind after new developments within the thread? Players do it all the time. He even says that he's not sure about keeping his vote on subversion, and that he'll "have to see." It doesn't sound at all to me like he's trying to "push a bandwagon," as you put it. Regarding the accusations forwarded against chaoser, i often found them so muddled and based in strange logic that i wasn't even sure what he was being accused of. All in all, this whole focus on chaoser seems like townie infighting to me. I'm not going to vote for him. | ||
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On July 22 2010 09:07 Subversion wrote: blue in the face i see what you did there | ||
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i've already outlined my reasons for chaoser being innocent. at first i was pretty convinced by Pyrr's essay, but youngminii and a couple other players did point out some flaws. upon reexamination it also seems that Pyrr was very selective in which posts of DTA he presented, picking only the worst posts and omitting DTA's more logical and serious posts. I'm pretty sure Subversion is townie as i've been saying for the past 20 pages or something. but at this point it looks like i have to choose the lesser of two evils. #vote subversion Sorry, man. nothing personal. | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:47 youngminii wrote: I hate this game. It made me miss day9's daily. whatsa matter? | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:49 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Now what are these posts I left out? He had serious posts answering Foolishness, which I mentioned. He also had a serious post discussing someone's plan at some point. The vast majority of posts were clearly not serious. He had no serious posts until Foolishness and I called him out Day 1. There's no debating that he has become way more serious and logical since I've held his feet to the fire Day 2. And I don't see how you can be sure that Subversion is townie when he is clearly blue or red at this point. yes, i thin those Foolishness posts and "plan posts" were the ones I'm thinking of. joking around isn't a sign of scum in my experience. I've seen players do it no matter what side they're on. By "Townie" i meant town-side, i.e. blue or green. sorry, i should have been clearer there. | ||
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why is it suspicious? you're not going to convince anyone of anything without some reasons. or are you just bitter about day 1? | ||
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chaoser has been a more positive contributor to the town than subversion has. | ||
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On July 22 2010 12:11 chaoser wrote: mass shifting votes means mafia is at work trying to confuse the process so we can't get info out of it tomorrow right? Sorry DTA, you betray me, I betray you. ##unvote ##vote DarthThienAn ][_, {[]} ][_, | ||
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On July 22 2010 12:22 youngminii wrote: infundibfuwifsulucvum It's "Infundibulum." | ||
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all i ever wanted was to be loved | ||
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i kinda like reading it though | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:28 citi.zen wrote: Perhaps don't play "like chez" next time, eh? Not as easy (or fun) as it may seem! funny how you and d3 pop out of the woodwork as soon as the night post comes up | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:43 youngminii wrote: Also, all evidence as of right now points to me being a better player than you, protractinium. I defended DTA, you lynched him. There is every reason in the world I'm allowed to tell you how to play. All in all this doesn't mean a whole lot. A red player will vote for one of his own if he knows that person will die anyway. He will also defend a townie who has good chances of dying in order to make himself appear more credible. | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:47 youngminii wrote: infundilxzcblum It's "Infundibulum." | ||
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On July 22 2010 14:10 Subversion wrote: I'd just like to make an appeal here for protection tonight. Good idea, lets make obvious suicide bomber target even more tempting! | ||
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On July 22 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote: You know, I have a question and I think this should be public information. My sources tell me that tree.hugger has been spreading misinformation to at least 3 different people via PM and instructing them to vote for certain people. However, I do not believe he's scum. Tree.hugger, stop PMing others and post it here for everyone to see. Don't just say 'vote for this person' and 'vote for that person', tell them who you're suspicious of and ask them who they're suspicious of. Do not go around giving orders. It also seems as if you're targeting newer players (although I'm not sure about this). I'm bringing this post back up. Youngminii, can you clarify something? According to you, tree hugger is going around deliberately spreading misinformation (an euphemism for "lies"), but you don't think he's red? What do you think he is then? Since when is spreading misinformation a town-sided behavior? Tree hugger has also replied, but he didn't even acknowledge this above post. You also seem to know much more than you're letting on here. I wouldn't be surprised if you know the names of a) whoever tree hugger is PMing, and b) whoever he is telling these people to vote for. Finally, given the necessity of this info to have spread to you via PM (unless you're psychic) it is a bit ironic for you to go and tell someone to "stop PMing others." | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Day 1 Votes] + Divinek Pandain SiNiquity bumatlarge Brownbear Subversion Youngminii (5) XeliN Amber[Light] Roffles Infundibulum Jayme Abstain (6) LaXerCannon tricode SouthRawrea chaoser protactinium zeks DTA (3) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia tree.hugger ketomai (2) citi.zen lakrismamma Amber[Light] (1) BloodyCobbler (2) OpZ LaXerCannon (1) Misder Citi.zen (1) rastaban SiNiquity (1) Pandain (1) BloodyCobbler Infundibulum (1) youngminii + Show Spoiler [Day 2 votes] + Pyrrhuloxia XeliN zeks Subversion LaXerCannon rastaban OpZ Protactinium chaoser Pandain chaoser (8) youngminii Roffles SouthRawrea misder citi.zen BrownBear Divinek SiNiquity Subversion (7) tree.hugger bumatlarge jayme Amber[Light] Infundibulum d3_crescentia Amber[Light] (1) Bloody Cobbler Abstain (2) lakrismamma tricode People who overlapped on Hyperbola and DTA lynch votes: Pandain Subversion + Show Spoiler + Hyperbola's "Death Post" On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote: Guys, really? Okay so I'm pretty much lynched because you people can't take a joke. So I'm leaving this as my legacy: People I think are mafia or atleast seem fishy: Brown Bear Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? youngminii You are entirely too defensive when a person puts a vote on you as a placeholder. Either you are scum or a very nervous blue. You also endorse no lynching on the first day to appear to be "pro-life" and "for the town". I really don't see your reasoning behind this because a random shot in the dark of inactives or suspicious players can in fact nab a red. And if it doesn't you only lose a green because a blue would at least roleclaim or try to join up with trust circles to avoid getting lynched in this manner. (Divided blues that don't make connections are really hindering the town). SiNiquity I had absolutely no evidence against you before but now you are starting to stink of scum at first you took my accusal of you as a joke and brushed it off, but when people started accusing me of being mafia you saw an opportunity and went into action to provide as much evidence as you could find against me by even looking into past games. Then you just completely shut your mouth and is now waiting for the situation to close to start talking again (afraid you'll say something to bring attention to you and me being the perfect scapegoat). Also your previous posts were really try-hard in my opinion. You contributed absolutely nothing by typing up lengthy posts that just summarized what everyone said. Besides that you clarified and discussed some rules of the game and such. You want to make it seem like you are contributing and keep a neutral and non aggressive stance like a reporter so no one would suspect you. This could just be your playstyle but it seems like a very cautious red one to me. LaXerCannon First LaxerCannon recommends lynching inactives but then goes ahead and abstains. Then he goes on again about how we should just line up inactives to lynch and doesn't change his vote. Then he vanishes. This is fishy for two reasons. First the obvious contradiction, and second, the effort to try and direct suspicion away from him. He keeps pushing the idea to lynch random inactive people while the town debates over a few suspects and really does nothing but push the town in the wrong direction: not analysing the game but killing off quiet people. Then he talks about playoffs and keeps endorcing random picking ideas. That is wayy too anti-town to be a blue. And if he's green he doesn't care about the game much. ------------------------------------------------------- this is all I have now and hope I at least contributed to the game before I die sorry about trying to have fun guys :/ j/k ~peace + Show Spoiler [DTA's "Death Post"] + On July 22 2010 12:14 DarthThienAn wrote: chaoser, I don't mind dying. Prefer not to, but it's all good if I do. People to look out for when I flip green: Pyrr. Subversion (still got it out for him). youngminii. tree.hugger who fed me the connection between Sub and youngminii. And if those two are guilty then check out Pandain and citi.zen too. People who haven't been posting that I remember: d3 zeks Jayme Laxer Amber (maybe?) I forget who else and can't be bothered to check right now. | ||
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On July 23 2010 02:51 Tricode wrote: Me. I agree. Kill that douche bag bastard. Please do so. Keep this up and you're a great target for Day 3 lynch. | ||
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On July 23 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote: He didn't tell anyone different things if my assumptions are correct. He said something like "we lynch subversion and we've got youngminii, we lynch DTA and we've got nothing" Which is such a fucking stupid argument, might I add, and spreading this misinformation via PMs being a horrible way to play. Are you going to answer my questions above? | ||
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On July 23 2010 12:05 youngminii wrote: If you would read the thread once in a while, you would've read my reasoning earlier. It's okay, I'm kind enough to explain it again. There's no reason for scum to pin me along with Subversion. If Subversion is scum, then tree.hugger wouldn't be lynching him (unless it's epically bad bussing). If Subversion's isn't scum, then what's the point of 'pinning' me to Subversion? It makes no logical sense. Anyway, what's wrong with you people. You lynch DTA and say 'we fucked up' and 'we didn't learn anything'? I'll come back when I have some free time and lay down a solid argument against chaoser. Until then, have fun. I don't think you really answered my question | ||
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As it is right now, you are 1) dodging the question 2) becoming hostile I was not hostile - the post you made about tree huggers PM's is actually pretty important and I didn't really follow your thought process. You obviously know a lot about tree hugger, yet you are refusing to share this information with the town. Why? I looked back in the thread and didn't see the clarifying post you mentioned before. I don't understand why you're so uncooperative. Like I said, if i was in your position, i would be thinking pretty hard about tree hugger being scum, especially since he'd been pushing for Subversions lynch over chaoser - someone who you thought (think) was red. But you don't think he's scum. I asked why, a reasonable question, and you haven't answered. Why are you dodging the questions? | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:09 youngminii wrote: How am I dodging the question? Do I seriously have to quote it again? The answer's right there. What am I refusing to share? Obviously I'm going to be hostile when my scum suspects are ganging up on me, no shit. Why don't you stop dodging MY question and answer how am I dodging the question? How am I refusing to share information? How am I being uncooperative? Look, this is every post you made between the Tree Hugger PM post and the post where you answered me saying you had "already answered the question: + Show Spoiler [posts] + On July 22 2010 14:09 youngminii wrote: Oh yeah, I forgot the most important part: the question. Pretty much, why are you doing this via PM when you can just do it publicly in the thread? Is it because you're avoiding any counter arguments so that your PM recipients will have an easier time believing/trusting you or is it something else? On July 22 2010 14:12 youngminii wrote: Ya I'd have asked for protection too but that's literally giving suicide bomber free medic kills. On July 22 2010 14:31 youngminii wrote: I don't understand why he's doing that. I just, I don't even... On July 22 2010 14:54 youngminii wrote: I dunno I feel as if I'll get NK'd tonight. My spidey senses are tingling. On July 22 2010 14:58 youngminii wrote: Don't want to bring back the useless debate, ignoring your post. On July 22 2010 15:25 youngminii wrote: I hope you enjoy reading. On July 23 2010 09:01 youngminii wrote: Don't edit at all in any situation for any reason without BM's approval. On July 23 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote: He didn't tell anyone different things if my assumptions are correct. He said something like "we lynch subversion and we've got youngminii, we lynch DTA and we've got nothing" Which is such a fucking stupid argument, might I add, and spreading this misinformation via PMs being a horrible way to play. Like I said, the answer wasn't in there even though you said it was. If you'll notice this game I have never once said I thought you were red. I have been asking you questions, because you've been making some out of the ordinary posts. Your reactions to these questions have generally been hostile, uncooperative (see: the reply I am quoting) and overall it seems like you think I don't like you or something. Which personally, I don't understand. I'm a pretty friendly guy. But when my questions are met with you saying things like "this is the scummiest post ever," or "you are fucking bad," - which are things you have actually typed in this thread, paraphrased - is it any wonder why I don't think you're meeting me on equal grounds here? Now, maybe I really am a fucking idiot, but that explanation you gave previously didn't make any sense to me and I and probably several others would like it if you could just be clear about things instead of saying "I'm not dodging the question" while continuing to dodge the question! Look, if you really are town, your abrasive reactions aren't helping you at all and will help you get lynched more than anything I could ever muster. And there really hasn't been that much pressure on you at all this game, so I'd hate to see you react under actual intense scrutiny. | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:27 youngminii wrote: Now I'm just getting annoyed because you seem to be fucking blind. I've said this three times already. Go read the mafia manifesto or something. Youngminii post response generator v 0.89b Output: you are the scummiest bad player ever, can you even read? Your play is so awful I don't understand? Accept output [y/n] | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote: I would like to ask you the same question. Please read my post at least 3 times carefully and then wisely respond. i'm still working out the bugs in the code | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:45 BrownBear wrote: Too... much... flaming... Seriously guys, this isn't helping us scumhunt. neither are you | ||
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Lynch BM Day 3 for making us wait? i think so | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:47 BrownBear wrote: Because every time I try to read through the thread and find something, I have to wade through tons of flamewar and bullshit, and it gets demoralizing. Also, I'm waiting for daypost. Relax. sorry i'm a little drunk right now | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:49 youngminii wrote: Okay since apparently I'm being too angry here, I'll stop saying read my posts and I'll explain it for you. The reason I don't believe tree.hugger is scum is because very early in the game I received a PM explaining what tree.hugger has been saying to people. He said (as you should already know) that if subversion is scum, then I am scum too. He also that that if DTA is scum, then I'm still unknown. Now the reason I don't think tree.hugger is scum (I simply think he's a bad town) is because of the following scenarios. 1) Tree.hugger and subversion are both scum In this case, tree.hugger would be doing a very bad form of bussing as he's telling everyone (needlessly) to lynch subversion. Then he would be able to get a lynch off me since he's telling everyone that I'm connected to subversion (I don't even know how that works) but no scum is stupid enough to do this form of play. 2) Tree.hugger is scum and subversion is town Well, tree.hugger COULD just be spreading this information to lynch subversion. But then that removes the possibility of being able to lynch me (in the near future). There's no reason for scum to needlessly link me to subversion if subversion is town, because that rules out the theory of me being scum too. 3) Tree.hugger is town and subversion is scum/town Tree.hugger is bad town spreading information via PM by fortune of bad play. Most likely. Okay, thanks. i see what you're getting at now. I wish you had just posted something like this in the first place for number one, the connection between you and subversion that tree hugger has been talking about in the thread has to do with the day one lynch, i'm pretty sure. basically, subversion voted for hyperbola instead of you. he was the deciding vote and it resulted in a townie getting lynched. basically if subversion was to flip red to a dt check or death, it would look really bad for you, and the same for him if you flipped red. Of course it seems to me that tree huggers arguments hinge on the assumption that either you or subversion are red. If both of you are green then the connection is null. so that raises the question of whether or not tree hugger is a detective, and checked subversion night 1, and has been trying to convince people to vote for him. One thing you do have to admit about the Day 2 vote is that the entire push on chaoser came at the perfect time to push Subversion away from the lead. If chaoser is town side, then this can easily be seen as a mafia push to make the top 2 candidates both townies so it wouldn't matter who won. I know you think chaoser is red, but the timing of it is very convenient. Subversion has also been using the newbie excuse, but the fact is he has been the center of the critical actions for Days 1 and 2, which means I don't want to waive all reasoning in light of the "he's just new" excuse. | ||
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Generally, yes, I want to vote double lynch on Day 3 and I probably will be voting for it unless I die. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:35 youngminii wrote: The real question is why would vigilante hit any of these three? It makes no sense. There was no spotlight on any of them and they didn't really shine a spotlight at anyone (well BC said some things a while back). Yeah they were pretty inactive. It's definite bluesnipe | ||
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in fact mafia are going to want to kill him, why would we do their job for them? | ||
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just a heads up i'm going to be out all day tomorrow, driving to check out some granites and then going to an M.C. Escher exhibit. i will be back in time to vote though. let me read all of this citizen stuff and i'll drop a post of my thoughts before i disappear | ||
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On July 24 2010 21:58 citi.zen wrote: BC is telling us here that the DTs should not coordinate with each other because there is a chance of a slip-up. Again, he is acting as red as can be, using his credibility to try to spread misinformation. Vote for him in today's lynch and don't tell me the Dt names until you see BC flip GF. Easy win after that. no, he actually has a really good point - that people screw up all the time. i can't tell you how many games i've been in where the dt's manage to start a blue circle, include one too any idiots and get the role info leaked to the mafia = dead blues; or inadvertently let the mafia directly into the PM circle = dead blues your plan is solid but not error proof nor fool proof, and we can't pretend like it is the reason to be careful is that this is basically THE GAME right here. if town screws up they lose it's over, if it works then town is sitting pretty | ||
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but town has the rest of the day to figure this out - calling for a lynch on BC because he's the only player not saying "hurr citizen is ownage!" is retarded | ||
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On July 24 2010 12:05 citi.zen wrote: Ok, let's blow this taco stand. I am a mad hatter. I am part of a dt circle. I would love to help the two dt's connect. Here's how we can do it: 1. Wait to see if there is a counter claim against me and Tricode, since together we should account for the 2 town Kp roles. If there isn't, we are both confirmed. If there is, we have a red player. 2. The other dt asks a confirmed person they checked to contact me. If more than one person comes forward I will ask the dt to claim. This way, if the mafia decide to fake claim we have two reds, not just one. 3. The two DTs, remaining publicly anonymous, are in contact. We give ourselves a chance to win. OK - this bolded right here, is the most vulnerable part of your plan, citi. You are right - with no counter-claim, you yourself are in the clear. Remember, no dt check is confirmed because of the Godfather. As BC pointed out, if the GF decided to appear as DT he could have a representative (a red) act as his contact for this. However, the chances of GF picking DT in my experience are pretty low (never seen it happen) and mafia probably played it safe with vet or townie. But it's still POSSIBLE and so it must be weighed into consideration. The other thing is, how can you ask the DT to claim if more than 1 representative comes forward? The way the plan is worded, you yourself do not know the names of the DT's and are instead passing the names of the representatives, or am i misreading? | ||
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On July 25 2010 00:44 citi.zen wrote: BC is plainly not making sense. He is red. Stop trying to distract. stop trying to discourage discussion | ||
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On July 25 2010 01:02 citi.zen wrote: OK - let's encourage discussion. DTs talking to each other: good or bad in your view? lol no matter what role i am i would answer this question the same way, so essentially it is a nonquestion. try again! (the answer is that it is good) Basically my worry is that you need a way to deal with false claims. The mafia are at an advantage right now in terms of kills and I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to send in one of their players as a false DT representative in order to sacrifice himself, disrupt your plan, and buy them another day Situation: two people PM you claiming to be representatives of a Detective (they don't tell you his name). Now, since you know the name of the other DT or are at least in contact with him indirectly, we know one of these guys is a liar. How do you deal with this? We would have to publicly expose the names of the representatives, in order to spend a day role checking or lynching (double lynch?), which costs the town another 2 kills before the plan goes into effect. Is there another, cleaner, plan? Now one possible way to avoid this situation entirely is to have the remaining DT contact you himself, as you are confirmed town (unless there is a real vig/hatter out there and he is really really stupid or really really inactive). However, this still opens you up to false claims from the mafia, and in this case "your" DT can check one of the claimants (don't forget about the godfather!), thereby determining the innocence of the other. Still, you lose a night before getting the real DTs in touch with each other. And then, the possibilities of what happen during the night can destroy the plan entirely. The suicide bomber comes to mind. On the whole, this is a very powerful plan which is why i would expect mafia to interfere given that they haven't lost a member yet. Since the idea of the plan has already been set in motion it seems to me that the town has little choice but to participate - consider a scenario where the actual remaining DT is too nervous to contact citizen, and then citizen gets contacted my a mafia "detective." Since only 1 claim came to citizen, can he assume the innocence of this claimant? This scenario alone shows why we basically have no choice but to follow through with the plan now, and that the remaining DT needs to follow the plan and find a way to contact citizen. Personally, I'm not sure which method of contact is superior for the plan (representative to citi or actual DT to citi). Both have pros and cons here, can anyone else shed some light? | ||
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On July 25 2010 01:13 lakrismamma wrote: Makes no sense then we should have 2 persons claiming. Since citi.zen would be confirmed at this point he can print the 2 personse in the thread and we have a 1v1. This is good for town. The point about getting 2 persons to claim is that the mafia have to sacrifice 2 persons to be able to infiltrate and even then we have a situation where 4 people are suspects and 2 of them is mafia this is also good for town. If citi.zen in confirmed then I see no problem with this. read my long post | ||
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On July 25 2010 01:41 citi.zen wrote: Two things: if you trust me, you trust me DT. I got checked night 1 and personally chose night 2's check target. No way for the two of them to "play me". Second, multiple claims are fine. The mafia will give up 2 people. At night we investigate one of the competing groups. We get two reds either way. Clear? At night the mafia can shit on you whenever they want. | ||
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On July 25 2010 02:10 BrownBear wrote: They might not even need to sac someone. The SB could just blow the plan to shreds by himself. Well, ok, I guess they technically do need to sac someone. You get the idea. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The thing is it won't necessarily stop the plan even if they do use the bomber. All false claims must be cleared up and all legit info must be exchanged before the time limit of night is up if we want the plan to go through without risk of derailment. There's just not a lot of room for error. If you'll notice, i am advocating the plan (we don't have a lot of a choice i don't think...), but there needs to be some very careful ground rules set here so that the shit doesn't hit the fan Rule #79b of Mafia: never ever assume the mafia are idiots. | ||
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I need to think about this. I'm actually not sure if the correct play is to lynch South here. | ||
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On July 25 2010 04:27 chaoser wrote: If he IS bomber like he says he is, it'll just be me and him dying. That gives a lot of information against me/him such as those who where making a strong case against me/people who ADMITTEDLY jumped on him. If he's mafia, we just killed a mafia, good job, we still can't 100% trust citi.zen since it could be a ploy to sac one mafia to make the other one more trusted. Not saying that I don't trust you citi.zen, I'm just saying that's a possibility. yeah thats true. still, let's say south is telling the truth. we lynch him and you and he go boom boom. your role flip, which gives us so,e insight into the proceedings of Day 2. so it goes to night, mafia get 2 more kills for a potential of 4 kills in 1 cycle and then we have a double lynch tomorrow where we pretty much have to hit 2 mafia correctly (though citizen would account for 1) On the other hand, say South is false claiming and is red. We lynch him today and citizen is pretty much confirmed, and we move on to the scenarios detailed in my larger post a page or so back, but on the whole we're looking pretty good. what we need to consider are the motives behind each claim of Citizen and SouthRawrea. How would these motives change depending on the alignment of each player? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Day 1 Votes] + Divinek Pandain SiNiquity bumatlarge Brownbear Subversion Youngminii (5) XeliN Amber[Light] Infundibulum Abstain (6) LaXerCannon tricode SouthRawrea chaoser protactinium zeks DTA (3) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia tree.hugger ketomai (2) citi.zen lakrismamma Amber[Light] (1) BloodyCobbler (2) OpZ LaXerCannon (1) Misder Citi.zen (1) rastaban SiNiquity (1) Pandain (1) BloodyCobbler Infundibulum (1) youngminii + Show Spoiler [Day 2 votes] + Pyrrhuloxia XeliN zeks Subversion LaXerCannon rastaban OpZ Protactinium chaoser Pandain chaoser (8) youngminii SouthRawrea misder citi.zen BrownBear Divinek SiNiquity Subversion (7) tree.hugger bumatlarge Amber[Light] Infundibulum d3_crescentia Amber[Light] (1) Bloody Cobbler Abstain (2) lakrismamma tricode | ||
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On July 25 2010 06:17 zeks wrote: #vote SouthRawrea Mafia is essentially against a wall so they pushed their most inactive member out to die How does that make any sense mafia is against a wall so they sacrificed someone who was going to be lynched anyway? if southrawrea is red it doesn't buy the mafia any extra time if he gets lynched | ||
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On July 25 2010 06:31 zeks wrote: 1. His claim is an effort to save himself and get our main man citi.zen killed in the process 2. SouthRawrea is obviously expendable 3. Town organization is becoming a LEGIT THREAT - we've forced the action on them so now they came up with an aggressive reply with South claiming. Scum probably wrote his posts up for him rofl Okay, I can see this line of thinking now. However, so far 1, seems to be backfiring since South has already garnered several votes. And i doubt he had his posts written for him; they're not persuasive at all. Put yourself in the mafias shoes. If citizen is really the hatter, how would you disrupt the plan? The strategies i detailed in my longish post on page 96 (i think its 96) involving false DT claims would be much more powerful and harder to combat than sending out SouthRawrea to meekly claim that he's the real Mad Hatter. Like I said before, never assume the mafia are idiots. The other possibility no one has mentioned is that BC and Tricode are both red and we have 2 Hatters (possible yes... realistic probably not) | ||
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On July 25 2010 06:52 Pandain wrote: @Bolded section. How would that work? Day 2 there were 3 hits. We don't know there were three; BC said he took the 3rd hit and we have to take his word for it. I dont think the 2 hatter thing is too likely i just wanted to bring it up since it's important to approach the problem from all angles | ||
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On July 25 2010 06:52 chaoser wrote: It won't matter if the next person is on the stands if one of them is suicide bomber, they'd just blow up tonight and laugh at us. And people ask my why I vote for double lynch. | ||
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Ugh, this is confusing. | ||
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#vote Double Lynch vote citi.zen | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:31 BrownBear wrote: True, but that doesn't change the fact that trying to get MH to say who they put their bombs on is a very scummy move. It's not worth possibly messing up a fakeclaimer when it's far more likely that they're legit, they say who their bombs are on, and mafia hits them to take out 2 or 3 people in one go. Not if citi.zens bombs are on a mafia. | ||
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i wish there was another word for 'claim' | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:54 Amber[LighT] wrote: What exactly are the chances that a mafia member can guess someone is a mad hatter so easily anyway? That's pretty random imo Were citi.zen's tells that simple to the mafia? Well I had citizen marked down as blue or maybe red since around Day 1; he was also one of Foolishness suspects. | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:02 youngminii wrote: Congratulations on having him marked down as blue or red, that's a great achievement What did you have him marked down as? Also, the suspect of a green townie means nothing. This isn't true, and you know it. Foolishness is also a good player, who usually gets decent reads in my experience. | ||
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but i do appreciate the support | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:47 youngminii wrote: I'm actually kind of scared if he flips red because I'll most likely get lynched tomorrow. Why did I put myself in a situation like this lol I'm starting to think there are no mafia and BM is just picking the kills at night | ||
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Pandain and youngminii have been in PM contact since Day 1 though | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:27 youngminii wrote: This is exactly what I am hellbent on doing. I'm just going to be spamming the list until this game ends. BC SouthRawrea Chaoser Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) Young, you know that if South is blue, the mafia spread their votes across both lists and let the town fight over the lynch. | ||
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I'm serious; stop being a dick. If South is blue then Day 3 was perfect for mafia. They have 1-2 people come out and argue for lynching citizen (someone like BC, tree hugger, or me) and a couple others to start the wagon on South (e.g. you, zeks, or lakrismamma). The town just eats up the bullshit since a mafia was never in danger of getting lynched due to citizen fronting for the mad hatter rather than actually being the mad hatter. Basically the entire duality of Citi/South was thrown because citizen was not the role he said he was, so instead of being at Citi/South/Tricode we're at South/Tricode/Mystery Player. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:42 youngminii wrote: We can still trust citi.zen that the Mystery Player exists, BECAUSE citi.zen flipped green. It's pretty much the same as citi.zen flipping MH except that now it's even better because MH is hidden. We KNOW that it's either South or Tricode that's lying. It's almost definite that South is lying and you're backing him up with a whole host of other scum. If South ends up flipping blue, oh damn well we've got Tricode. Also, I apologise for being a dick, I guess I'm just happy that mafia are cornered and I don't want anything to jeopardise the win. No, because Mystery Player could be the liar. it could be the Godfather posing as Mad Hatter, for example. How does South being blue implicate Tricode though? Sorry if i've missed something earlier. It seems to me if South is blue we've surely done fucked ourselves. | ||
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On July 25 2010 23:58 chaoser wrote: We need to work out some kind of tree cause there's about 5 people claiming they know a DT, it seems like they're all unconnected or something, something's fishy about that. But before that, we should obviously handle the case of voting for people/double lynch voting that zeks brought up. I would think it's more important to figure out the 3rd DT claim that went to citizen - I'm still not even sure really what the fuck happened there and who the important figures are since nothing is being posted in the thread about it. I'm not part of those pm circle(s) so I hope whoever's in there is actually taking care of this. I'm worried we're gonna see two dead DT's tonight, because it sounds like the people frolicking about in PM land have been intensely, deeply, stupid. | ||
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so, since you're the current representative of PM Land, is the situation being resolved or not??? | ||
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putting together vote lists for you guys # vote double lynch | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Day 1 Votes] + Divinek Pandain SiNiquity bumatlarge Brownbear Youngminii (5) XeliN Amber[Light] Infundibulum Abstain (6) LaXerCannon tricode SouthRawrea chaoser protactinium zeks DTA (3) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia tree.hugger ketomai (2) lakrismamma Amber[Light] (1) BloodyCobbler (2) OpZ LaXerCannon (1) Misder Citi.zen (1) rastaban SiNiquity (1) Pandain (1) BloodyCobbler Infundibulum (1) youngminii + Show Spoiler [Day 2 votes] + Pyrrhuloxia XeliN zeks LaXerCannon rastaban OpZ Protactinium chaoser Pandain chaoser (8) youngminii SouthRawrea misder BrownBear Divinek SiNiquity tree.hugger bumatlarge Amber[Light] Infundibulum d3_crescentia Amber[Light] (1) Bloody Cobbler Abstain (2) lakrismamma tricode + Show Spoiler [Day 3 Votes] + SouthRawrea tree.hugger Amber[Light] BloodyCobbler Pandain Chaoser Pyrrhuloxia Protactinium Rastaban Infudibulum BrownBear Divinek SouthRawrea (8) Tricode Xelin bumatlarge zeks lakrismamma SiNiquity Abstain (2) Opz Opz (1) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia (1) Misder Protactinium (1) LaXerCannon | ||
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if he played to win instead of shooting BC on a personal vendetta none of this would have happened | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:43 BrownBear wrote: 4) BC has been on the wrong side of every vote so far. Not bothering with the rest of your post, but this is demonstrably false. Anyone can go back and read my vote list at the bottom of Page 132 and see that you either have a very poor memory or are lying. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:50 BrownBear wrote: Day 1: He votes for Pandain. I believe Pandain is green, thus I believe him to be voting for the wrong person for the wrong reasons. Day 2: He votes for Amber[light]. Again, a person who i believe is green. Again, wrong side of a vote. Day 3: He votes for citi.zen. Very wrong side of a vote. Your point was? Do you know how voting works? BC's votes Day 1 and 2 weren't on any side; they didn't even matter. The only one that's on the wrong side is Day 3, which by definition isn't every day. Since you seem to know the "wrong side" for each day of lynching, please enlighten us: what was the Right Side? | ||
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On July 27 2010 00:35 youngminii wrote: ...Because that was the plan before the random shitstorm that appeared out of nowhere if BM doesn't wait for double lynch votes it means 3 players get mod killed | ||
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oh whew i missed that. my 3 was off anyway cause amber and d3 voted after Bill's vote count | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Day 1 Votes] + Divinek Pandain SiNiquity bumatlarge Brownbear Youngminii (5) XeliN Amber[Light] Infundibulum Abstain (6) LaXerCannon tricode chaoser protactinium zeks DTA (3) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia tree.hugger ketomai (2) lakrismamma Amber[Light] (1) OpZ LaXerCannon (1) Misder Citi.zen (1) rastaban SiNiquity (1) Pandain (1) Infundibulum (1) youngminii + Show Spoiler [Day 2 votes] + Pyrrhuloxia XeliN zeks LaXerCannon rastaban OpZ Protactinium chaoser Pandain chaoser (8) youngminii misder BrownBear Divinek SiNiquity tree.hugger bumatlarge Amber[Light] Infundibulum d3_crescentia Amber[Light] (1) Abstain (2) lakrismamma tricode + Show Spoiler [Day 3 Votes] + tree.hugger Amber[Light] Pandain Chaoser Pyrrhuloxia Protactinium Rastaban Infundibulum BrownBear Divinek Tricode Xelin bumatlarge zeks lakrismamma SiNiquity Abstain (2) Opz Opz (1) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia (1) Misder Protactinium (1) LaXerCannon + Show Spoiler [Day 4 Votes] + Day 4 divinek tricode zeks chaoser youngminii tree.hugger bumatlarge rastaban brownbear pandain misder d3_crescentia Siniquity zeks chaoser youngminii tree.hugger bumatlarge pandain rastaban brownbear d3_crescentia lakrismamma Pandain (2) Pyrrhuloxia Misder Zeks (1) Rastaban (1) Tricode | ||
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Also, what? | ||
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So he was PMing Pandain without having checked him? lol | ||
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On July 29 2010 03:47 BrownBear wrote: The fact that BC voted Pandain day 1 makes me believe he's miller. eh you can't really take that into account. mafia, especially smart ones, will be sure to spread votes around. | ||
Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
i know my voting record is trash, and that's part of the reason i'm upset about this game. so it's understandable that you guys might think i'm red. but if you read my posts i think my logic is pretty consistently pro town | ||
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sorry i played like an idiot | ||
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On August 05 2010 23:00 citi.zen wrote: I never claimed the plan was "awesome", only that it improved the position of the town by at the very least surfacing a red counter claim. To your specific objections: 1. If you are a hatter and you see someone ask for DT role-claims, the best play is NOT be to stay silent and use your bombs, it is to prevent the role-claims right there by coming clean. Again, it's a matter of the hatter being a mafia player first and a blue role second. The bombs aren't everything -surfacing a red and protecting the DTs are well worth coming out of hiding for. Conversely, if a hatter comes out in this situation and there is no counter-claim, I would be very much inclined to trust them. 2. On the DT multiple claims: if I were red it would make no sense to fabricate multiple claims. The goal would be to make the process look "smooth" and gain the trust of the DTs. Coming up with stories about multiple claims destroys this trust, raises question marks, and increases the likelihood of getting lynched. It doesn't make any sense. 3. On your last comment - this is what you originally said: If the mafia used a red as a "mouth" the plan already worked! Remember the goal was to generate additional information. At any rate, thanks to you and Ace for at least trying to think this through, rather than just throwing around the word "hole" without any actual arguments. I think when you have full information of your claim, as you did, it's easier to come to these conclusions. But when you're a towny with partial to no information (e.g. not in any PM circle), there becomes a lot less of a motivation to trust plans like this since PM circles are apt to go awry (see: every PM game ever on TL) I know tree.hugger and I debated in several pretty long PMs about your whole claim plan thing, and basically we came down to 4 conclusions: 1) it wasn't as safe as you made it sound 2) if citizen is red and lying, this is the kind of ballsy playstyle we've seen from him before 3) southrawrea is not the kind of player youd send in to do a false claim (WHOOPS LOL) 4) this game is fucked obviously in hindsight these conclusions were wrong, except for #4, and i should have switched my vote because i was starting to realize this before the day was over and your final posts were cementing you as town. but i decided to stick w/ my guns; i'd already laid my rep on the line anyway. also, unfortunately, your inactivity didn't help your case :\ | ||
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United States2552 Posts
On August 06 2010 04:45 Bill Murray wrote: wouldn't placing nights 1 and 2 be in line with the accepted theory that a random lynch is better than a no lynch on day 1? i don't think it's really comparable. the reason no lynch sucks is that you've basically taken the day limit for town to win and subtracted 1 from it without learning anything at all. it's also unreliable because if someone isn't there to move their previous vote to abstain, or a mafia or two throw some votes, then someone gets lynched (unless majority ruling style is in effect). whereas when the hatter is placing his bombs, they don't do anything unless he dies which is usually much later then day 1. it also means if someone comes up innocent you might not have time to move your bomb off of them since you only can do 1 action per night of placing / moving a bomb so there are disadvantages to placing bombs as soon as possible. | ||
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