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Three Kingdoms Mafia (三国演义) - Page 23

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Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
May 19 2010 20:58 GMT
#441
i agree with the above post
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
May 19 2010 20:58 GMT
#442
rofl epic fail into *facepalm* Alt+qq
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
May 19 2010 21:00 GMT
#443
Uttermostly, lynch is gonna be soon underway so I hope Radfield decides nicely. Urrg x.x
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
May 19 2010 21:33 GMT
#444
Hope Radfield goes with LR.
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
May 19 2010 21:34 GMT
#445
I love how L was called out for not posting, then he posts and shit hits the fan. This should be a daily tradition.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
May 19 2010 21:36 GMT
#446
On May 20 2010 05:44 BrownBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2010 05:28 L wrote:
On May 20 2010 05:24 BrownBear wrote:
On May 20 2010 05:18 L wrote:

Brownbear, by contrast reacted a bit too emotionally to being called out as the YT leader so it probably isn't him. He might be a grunt if they start with grunts. Given that it makes sense




Could you finish that sentence please? I'm not about to attack you, I'm just actually curious what you were gonna say.

Well, i actually saw that too after I re-read the post, but its kinda complete as it is. "given that, it makes sense."

To elaborate, it would make sense that someone would laugh that they've been caught as being, say, the godfather, if they're actually just a grunt. Since the pin IS false and they can see the absurdities behind the argumentation, they're more likely to rage or laugh it off like most people do.

Generally speaking, when accused people laugh the issue off if they're innocent, but we've had a rash of townies being really dumb and getting really angry instead of trying to clear themselves off what they obviously know is shitty logic. Given that mafia are put into a position of introspection and self-censoring, they're kinda a bit slower to jump to either option because of how thread mechanics work.

In short, its much harder for an accurately pinned person to fake an emotional defense because instead of being an emotional reaction, it becomes a calculated play.

But yeah, if the YT do have a leader format, so far I'd say you aren't him.


Fair enough as far as your logic goes. I'm neutral (for now), and I'm still pretty convinced that the YTs operate pretty much the same as the other factions, albeit with some extra rules.

I'm betting the YTs actually have a leader because if they did not, it would be a travesty. Assume that the YTs don't have a leader, and that there are three of them. Person A and B want to recruit someone, say, Bill Murray, and Person C wants to recruit Fishball. Normally, Person A and B would just send off one PM to Caller saying "Yo, the Yellow Turbans are recruiting BM tonight, kthxbye" and all would be good. Person C, however, is a dick, and doesn't want to accept that he lost the vote. So Person C decides to be a dick and just PM Caller before Person A or B does, saying "Yo Caller, we're recruiting Fishball tonight."

I'm assuming Caller doesn't want his inbox cluttered up by all the Yellow Turbans voting, and doesn't want to have to tally up the votes, so he will probably just go by the first person who votes. Thus, if Person C beats out Person A and B, then the Yellow Turbans will recruit Fishball instead of Bill Murray, despite Bill Murray winning the majority vote within the YTs themselves.

This, quite frankly, is a stupid way of setting up a faction. Note, however, that I have never played as a Mafia character in any other Mafia game, so I'm not sure how the voting works for that: I'm just going off the voting structure of a similar-style game played on another forum (with werewolves instead of mafia, but you get the idea), where the host took the first PM in at night to be the nightkill, so teams could get easily derailed by one person being a dick.

For that game, it wasn't really a big issue, since one person hijacking the pick just meant that another random player got killed, and a KP wasn't wasted. In this format, however, there is actually a penalty (a very serious one at that) for picking the wrong person, so one idiot could actively mean the death of an entire team. It is for this reason that I think one of the two following scenarios is more likely:

1) YTs operate as a team, but they all send in nightvotes and Caller tallies them up. This is very unlikely for the following reasons: This would clutter the crap out of Caller's inbox, and he probably doesn't want to deal with that shit, and also, he has said in this thread that teams can choose whether they want to notify new recruits that they have been recruited or not. Obviously, YTs would most likely want to notify their new recruits, but in the case they choose not to, for whatever reason, that would leave one Yellow Turban completely out of the loop, so he wouldn't be able to vote. That would be silly.

2) Given the problems with the above scenario, this is the far more likely one: The Yellow Turbans have a leader, who acts as all other leaders, and has the final say in recruitment.

So, from what I see, it looks like the Yellow Turbans should be the same as any other faction, just with the added danger of all getting murdered, and the ability to grow very strong very quickly.
You basically wrote a huge post to tell us that a situation directly analogous to a normal mafia team is a stupid way to set up a team and is thus impossible.

Given that we have 20+ games consisting of people playing under the exact same conditions, it stands to reason that you might be a tad wrong with your reasoning. Is your conclusion wrong? I dunno. Your reasoning, however, is.

Mafia teams typically send in 1 hit list, and if multiple people send in a list, the person who sends it last is assumed to have the proper list. The team will generally bitch if someone sends in a random list, so typically the team will get together in IRC or in pms and come up with a consensus list. Alternatively they'll pick someone and let him pick. In the last instance, the rest of the team AFKs and someone, mostly L, gets annoyed and picks people who would be hilarious and puts that into a PM which is filled with jokes and comedy.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
May 19 2010 21:38 GMT
#447
On May 20 2010 06:34 Trezeguet23 wrote:
I love how L was called out for not posting, then he posts and shit hits the fan. This should be a daily tradition.

Yeah, I might as well follow the trend thusfar and post bitter one liners.

Posting actual analysis makes people go crazy with the one liners.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
barth
Profile Joined March 2008
Ireland1272 Posts
May 19 2010 21:57 GMT
#448
On May 20 2010 04:08 Hesmyrr wrote:
By the way, the day is almost over. Everyone should be posting their opinions about who the Radfield should lynch so he have better idea of what to do.

I agree with below post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 19 2010 19:24 Radfield wrote:
We all seem to be assuming that there is a Yellow Turban 'Leader'. This is really all the rules say about the YT's.

Show nested quote +

There is also a 4th Party in the form of the Yellow Turbans. They may recruit anybody but faction leaders and Yellow Turbans cannot be recruited. However, if the Yellow Turbans try to recruit a faction leader, they all die.


Nothing at all about a leader, which would kinda make sense if the YT's started with more then 1 person. They're more like mafia, collectively making decisions.

Anyways, who at this point is most likely to be a Yellow Turban? I think for starters we should look at the people who are voting for me. Why me? For starters because a bandwagon started up on me, and second because I indicated I would simply vote off whomever was being inactive. No threat at all to a Yellow Turban, and a great place to hide.

So lets see who voted for me(minus myself):

Johnnyspazz
Brownbear
Hesmyrr
Abenson
DarthTheinAn
TwoToneTerran
Falcynn
Last Romantic
Tricode
Xelin
Trezguet
Jugan

Last Romantic hasn't actually posted in the thread. Darththeinan and TwoToneTerran have contributed basically nothing. I don't really feel like examining the rest, as I'm not particularly motivated to search out the YT's or Faction Leaders at this point. But I think it's likely that there are a couple faction leaders and a couple yellow turbans in this bunch, possibly all of them. Thoughts anyone? Does this seem likely? Or am I reading too much into this?


Post #
DarthThienAn 3
Falcynn 4
Last Romantic 0
Tricode 4

I will agree with death of either one of the above. Opinions?

You missed my name

I haven`t posted since I don`t feel like over analyzing with almost no information at our hands at the moment. I also don`t want to have everyone throw shit at me right off the bat.
"Somebody you are talking to disappears mid sentence, and the universe shoots you because you talked to someone that wasn`t there." - MasterOfChaos
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
May 19 2010 22:18 GMT
#449
On May 20 2010 06:57 barth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2010 04:08 Hesmyrr wrote:
By the way, the day is almost over. Everyone should be posting their opinions about who the Radfield should lynch so he have better idea of what to do.

I agree with below post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 19 2010 19:24 Radfield wrote:
We all seem to be assuming that there is a Yellow Turban 'Leader'. This is really all the rules say about the YT's.

Show nested quote +

There is also a 4th Party in the form of the Yellow Turbans. They may recruit anybody but faction leaders and Yellow Turbans cannot be recruited. However, if the Yellow Turbans try to recruit a faction leader, they all die.


Nothing at all about a leader, which would kinda make sense if the YT's started with more then 1 person. They're more like mafia, collectively making decisions.

Anyways, who at this point is most likely to be a Yellow Turban? I think for starters we should look at the people who are voting for me. Why me? For starters because a bandwagon started up on me, and second because I indicated I would simply vote off whomever was being inactive. No threat at all to a Yellow Turban, and a great place to hide.

So lets see who voted for me(minus myself):

Johnnyspazz
Brownbear
Hesmyrr
Abenson
DarthTheinAn
TwoToneTerran
Falcynn
Last Romantic
Tricode
Xelin
Trezguet
Jugan

Last Romantic hasn't actually posted in the thread. Darththeinan and TwoToneTerran have contributed basically nothing. I don't really feel like examining the rest, as I'm not particularly motivated to search out the YT's or Faction Leaders at this point. But I think it's likely that there are a couple faction leaders and a couple yellow turbans in this bunch, possibly all of them. Thoughts anyone? Does this seem likely? Or am I reading too much into this?


Post #
DarthThienAn 3
Falcynn 4
Last Romantic 0
Tricode 4

I will agree with death of either one of the above. Opinions?

You missed my name

I haven`t posted since I don`t feel like over analyzing with almost no information at our hands at the moment. I also don`t want to have everyone throw shit at me right off the bat.

He also missed MyHeroNoob, who as far as the search function is concerned, hasn't done a single thing all game.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
May 19 2010 22:21 GMT
#450
On May 20 2010 06:57 barth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2010 04:08 Hesmyrr wrote:
By the way, the day is almost over. Everyone should be posting their opinions about who the Radfield should lynch so he have better idea of what to do.

I agree with below post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 19 2010 19:24 Radfield wrote:
We all seem to be assuming that there is a Yellow Turban 'Leader'. This is really all the rules say about the YT's.

Show nested quote +

There is also a 4th Party in the form of the Yellow Turbans. They may recruit anybody but faction leaders and Yellow Turbans cannot be recruited. However, if the Yellow Turbans try to recruit a faction leader, they all die.


Nothing at all about a leader, which would kinda make sense if the YT's started with more then 1 person. They're more like mafia, collectively making decisions.

Anyways, who at this point is most likely to be a Yellow Turban? I think for starters we should look at the people who are voting for me. Why me? For starters because a bandwagon started up on me, and second because I indicated I would simply vote off whomever was being inactive. No threat at all to a Yellow Turban, and a great place to hide.

So lets see who voted for me(minus myself):

Johnnyspazz
Brownbear
Hesmyrr
Abenson
DarthTheinAn
TwoToneTerran
Falcynn
Last Romantic
Tricode
Xelin
Trezguet
Jugan

Last Romantic hasn't actually posted in the thread. Darththeinan and TwoToneTerran have contributed basically nothing. I don't really feel like examining the rest, as I'm not particularly motivated to search out the YT's or Faction Leaders at this point. But I think it's likely that there are a couple faction leaders and a couple yellow turbans in this bunch, possibly all of them. Thoughts anyone? Does this seem likely? Or am I reading too much into this?


Post #
DarthThienAn 3
Falcynn 4
Last Romantic 0
Tricode 4

I will agree with death of either one of the above. Opinions?

You missed my name

I haven`t posted since I don`t feel like over analyzing with almost no information at our hands at the moment. I also don`t want to have everyone throw shit at me right off the bat.



Over analyzing with little to no info is the only way to go

As far as I'm concerned, it's between Last Romantic, Myheronoob and yourself, with DarthTheinAn running a slightly distant fourth. The more you post, the less likely to die you are. Darth, you talked all about how you weren't going to lurk in games anymore, yet here you are, lurking again

.
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
May 19 2010 22:28 GMT
#451
On May 20 2010 06:36 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2010 05:44 BrownBear wrote:
On May 20 2010 05:28 L wrote:
On May 20 2010 05:24 BrownBear wrote:
On May 20 2010 05:18 L wrote:

Brownbear, by contrast reacted a bit too emotionally to being called out as the YT leader so it probably isn't him. He might be a grunt if they start with grunts. Given that it makes sense




Could you finish that sentence please? I'm not about to attack you, I'm just actually curious what you were gonna say.

Well, i actually saw that too after I re-read the post, but its kinda complete as it is. "given that, it makes sense."

To elaborate, it would make sense that someone would laugh that they've been caught as being, say, the godfather, if they're actually just a grunt. Since the pin IS false and they can see the absurdities behind the argumentation, they're more likely to rage or laugh it off like most people do.

Generally speaking, when accused people laugh the issue off if they're innocent, but we've had a rash of townies being really dumb and getting really angry instead of trying to clear themselves off what they obviously know is shitty logic. Given that mafia are put into a position of introspection and self-censoring, they're kinda a bit slower to jump to either option because of how thread mechanics work.

In short, its much harder for an accurately pinned person to fake an emotional defense because instead of being an emotional reaction, it becomes a calculated play.

But yeah, if the YT do have a leader format, so far I'd say you aren't him.


Fair enough as far as your logic goes. I'm neutral (for now), and I'm still pretty convinced that the YTs operate pretty much the same as the other factions, albeit with some extra rules.

I'm betting the YTs actually have a leader because if they did not, it would be a travesty. Assume that the YTs don't have a leader, and that there are three of them. Person A and B want to recruit someone, say, Bill Murray, and Person C wants to recruit Fishball. Normally, Person A and B would just send off one PM to Caller saying "Yo, the Yellow Turbans are recruiting BM tonight, kthxbye" and all would be good. Person C, however, is a dick, and doesn't want to accept that he lost the vote. So Person C decides to be a dick and just PM Caller before Person A or B does, saying "Yo Caller, we're recruiting Fishball tonight."

I'm assuming Caller doesn't want his inbox cluttered up by all the Yellow Turbans voting, and doesn't want to have to tally up the votes, so he will probably just go by the first person who votes. Thus, if Person C beats out Person A and B, then the Yellow Turbans will recruit Fishball instead of Bill Murray, despite Bill Murray winning the majority vote within the YTs themselves.

This, quite frankly, is a stupid way of setting up a faction. Note, however, that I have never played as a Mafia character in any other Mafia game, so I'm not sure how the voting works for that: I'm just going off the voting structure of a similar-style game played on another forum (with werewolves instead of mafia, but you get the idea), where the host took the first PM in at night to be the nightkill, so teams could get easily derailed by one person being a dick.

For that game, it wasn't really a big issue, since one person hijacking the pick just meant that another random player got killed, and a KP wasn't wasted. In this format, however, there is actually a penalty (a very serious one at that) for picking the wrong person, so one idiot could actively mean the death of an entire team. It is for this reason that I think one of the two following scenarios is more likely:

1) YTs operate as a team, but they all send in nightvotes and Caller tallies them up. This is very unlikely for the following reasons: This would clutter the crap out of Caller's inbox, and he probably doesn't want to deal with that shit, and also, he has said in this thread that teams can choose whether they want to notify new recruits that they have been recruited or not. Obviously, YTs would most likely want to notify their new recruits, but in the case they choose not to, for whatever reason, that would leave one Yellow Turban completely out of the loop, so he wouldn't be able to vote. That would be silly.

2) Given the problems with the above scenario, this is the far more likely one: The Yellow Turbans have a leader, who acts as all other leaders, and has the final say in recruitment.

So, from what I see, it looks like the Yellow Turbans should be the same as any other faction, just with the added danger of all getting murdered, and the ability to grow very strong very quickly.
You basically wrote a huge post to tell us that a situation directly analogous to a normal mafia team is a stupid way to set up a team and is thus impossible.

Given that we have 20+ games consisting of people playing under the exact same conditions, it stands to reason that you might be a tad wrong with your reasoning. Is your conclusion wrong? I dunno. Your reasoning, however, is.

Mafia teams typically send in 1 hit list, and if multiple people send in a list, the person who sends it last is assumed to have the proper list. The team will generally bitch if someone sends in a random list, so typically the team will get together in IRC or in pms and come up with a consensus list. Alternatively they'll pick someone and let him pick. In the last instance, the rest of the team AFKs and someone, mostly L, gets annoyed and picks people who would be hilarious and puts that into a PM which is filled with jokes and comedy.



Hence the reason I said, in that very same post "hey, I've never played on a mafia team here before, but based on my past experience on a different forum this sounds like it could be silly.

Now I am educated!
SUNSFANNED
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
May 19 2010 22:36 GMT
#452
On May 20 2010 05:28 Fishball wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2010 05:18 L wrote:
Fishball's pretty much spamming while saying he doesn't want to play. Given he and I have had altercations in the past I'm wondering if that's intentionally done to make it look like he doesn't have a power role, or whether or not he is indeed a leader.

Also, I'm pretty confident that everyone in this game has some sort of power from their roles.



I think you're bang on with this. It seems likely that everyone has some sort of power, even if it sucks like Bill Murray's. It also seems unlikely that the leaders have any additional special power. For this reason, I think it makes a lot of sense for leaders to have Caller alert their members when they recruit them. The members will then at least have a focus for their powers and a savvy leader could get a lot of mileage out of their members abilities: teaming up dts and vigs to take out another leader for example . This also makes the Yellow Turbans even more powerful, because once recruited, the members will be using their powers 100% and sharing info 100% between themselves, because they don't need to worry about eventually getting recruited to another team.
ohN
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1075 Posts
May 19 2010 22:45 GMT
#453
On May 19 2010 12:16 Caller wrote:
Day ends in 18 hours


Didn't the day end like an hour and a half ago?
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
May 19 2010 22:50 GMT
#454
Well, I have a 2.5 hour final in 10 minutes, so it looks like I will miss the excitement

I'll be back on at around 9:30 EST, roughly, so I guess I'll see the aftermath then. Peace.
SUNSFANNED
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
May 19 2010 22:50 GMT
#455
On May 20 2010 07:45 ohN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2010 12:16 Caller wrote:
Day ends in 18 hours


Didn't the day end like an hour and a half ago?

really? lol k day's over
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
May 19 2010 22:52 GMT
#456
Give us the result man. Finally something concrete is happening.
Iaaan
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada578 Posts
May 19 2010 23:04 GMT
#457
I don't have anything to contribute, but I'm reading the thread. Just thought you should all know that.

I hope hesymerr, abenson or billmurray die, they are all pretty stupid.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
May 19 2010 23:05 GMT
#458
On May 20 2010 07:52 LunarDestiny wrote:
Give us the result man. Finally something concrete is happening.
Radfield, kill this person, ok thx.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
May 19 2010 23:06 GMT
#459
If you want to waste the kill, sure.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
May 19 2010 23:08 GMT
#460
just dont kill me
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
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