Pick Your Power Mafia!
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Foolishness
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Foolishness
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Foolishness
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In the event players picked the same 2 numbers I will dice role to see who goes first. If 2 players pick the same number, but a third player picks a different number, are the 2 players shoved to the back of the line? (This is the scenario where all 3 players picked the same first number) | ||
Foolishness
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On April 24 2010 07:21 Ace wrote: oh you mean like: [3][4] [3][4] [3][7] ? In this case the players that picked [3][4] end up picking after the player that picked [3][7]. Is this what you mean? Yeah, that's it | ||
Foolishness
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On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote: Okay, fun time. I've been doing some thinking about the game setup and have some thoughts for the town going forward: The first major item of note is this: + Show Spoiler [Vanilla Scum] + You are Vanilla Scum! The ability to kill 1 player per night belongs to you. One of you must PM me a kill for the night even though all 4 of you participate in the kill. Remember you can coordinate your # picks during the draft phase. The Mafia team this round consists of: Jack, Jill, this bottle and my ecstasy pills! You win when you outnumber the town, or there is no way for them to stop you from outnumbering them. This tells us 2 things: 1. The mafia only have 1 KP in a game with 19 players. They also only have 4 members. Why is this important? With all the rolecheck abilities out there, the mafia are unlikely to stand much of a chance unless they get some very powerful roles. 2. The mafia team knew who each other were during the draft phase and were allowed to communicate with each other during said phase. Assuming they talked to each other at all, they did not overlap with each other. These 2 points lead us to a pretty simple conclusion: The mafia made sure they have very low numbers and their numbers were probably consecutive in order to guarantee that they would wind up with powerful role choices. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like: [3] [1] [4] [1] [5] [1] [6] [1] in order to avoid overlapping with the town as much as possible while still keeping near the top. I think it is unlikely that they bid a [1] [1] or even a [2] [1] just because they were worried the town would also bid those numbers. Bill Murray already claimed he bid [1] [1]. I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually the case. I think L probably bid [2] [1] hoping that people would stack on 1. The people I'm looking at right now are these people in particular: 3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn I strongly believe that 1 or 2 of them are mafia. They are also likely to go for the roles the mafia will rely upon for the game. Remember that aside from the Copy Cat (which would be a risky role for the mafia to take), if the mafia want a role that gives them additional KP, they are likely to take it with these picks. I'm specifically thinking that the mafia here will be targeting Jack of All Trades, Day Vigilante, and Vengeful Player. Keep these 3 players in mind for later. I also propose that people announce something: whether or not you moved down and what you bid. Why would you do that and why would it matter? Because it gives us an idea of what range people bid in. Remember, we want to piece together who bid what because the mafia did not stack numbers on top of each other. I realize that the mafia can lie about this, but it really doesn't matter. If they lie about their bidding numbers, then the town has an opportunity to catch them in a lie based on who else bid that number. If someone moved down, they are placed in a group with the people around them. When you find a mafia in that group, it increases the level of trust with the people around you. With this in mind, I would like to announce that I moved down. I bid [6] [1] thinking that the mafia might try for consecutive numbers starting between 2 and 4. That would mean that they would end between 6 and 8. I'm almost positive I overlapped with one of the mafia. This means that we should also be looking very hard at: 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee I confirmed with Ace that this situation: A - [3] [1] B - [3] [1] C - [5] [1] D - [5] [2] will result in: A and B are ordered randomly, C, D. The second tie does not move you down a second time. This means that anyone who moved down yet is still above me bid at least a 6. Everyone below me moved down AND bid at most a 6. If you bid between 3 and 5 and moved down, it is especially important that you speak up. Why am I coming forward with this information right now and not after roles are selected? Because I want the town to deny the mafia the most powerful roles or at the very least control their use. We can't stop the mafia from taking roles to increase their KP, but we can still control who gets what role and try to keep the mafia away from the 3 most important ones: Inventor, Compulsive Vigilante, and Role Blocker. Why are these roles especially important? The first 2 provide the mafia with kill power EVERY NIGHT. The third one allows the mafia flexibility to get around this plan. Therefore, I want Bill Murray to take Inventor and L's replacement to take Compulsive Vigilante. Foolishness will take Roleblocker. Bill Murray, you will be making meth bombs (if Ace allows it) or at least bulletproof vests for people every night. The day post will confirm that you followed these directions. This way you cannot give the mafia additional kill power. L's replacement, the town will be directing your shots. We will vote during the day on your hit. Foolishness, you will not be roleblocking anyone. If anyone claims to be roleblocked, we will immediately lynch you. Roleblocks are much stronger for the mafia than they are for the town. I would just as soon nobody get them. tl;dr: Look hard at these 5: 3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee Claim your numbers. Revealing this information does not hurt the town but does hurt the mafia. Bill Murray, L's replacement, Foolishness: you have additional instructions. Read them. Did anyone else interpret this post as "waaa I'm upset that I was outsmarted by all these people and ended up low on the draft list waaa"? I indeed picked 1,1, meaning L picked 1,1 assuming BM isn't lying. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 02 2010 04:25 Qatol wrote: Lots of stuff to comment about: Thanks for the vote of confidence. You had better pick roleblocker. Is there a good argument why we shouldn't? I haven't seen one so far. Let me just say, that I highly doubt you would have posted all this stuff if you had wound up 1-5 on the list. Why do you fail to incriminate yourself in your analysis of what the town should do? On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote: tl;dr: Look hard at these 5: 3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee And it's funny that you're number 11 on the list. According to your analysis, you are just as suspicious as anyone on that list, yet you fail to say so. And can you remind me why you picked 10-12 to "look hard at"? It seems arbitrary and a way to deflect attention off yourself (I may have missed it in your post if you already said so). And why do you neglect BM and L in this list? As far as we know, they both picked 1,1 with me. My guess is you're trying to butter them up so they listen to your plan. We all know how sensitive BM and L are; if you incriminated them they probably wouldn't listen to you at all (and it's kinda funny how BM doesn't want to listen to you anyways). | ||
Foolishness
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Now we can tell the inventor to give someone bulletproof vests or whatever, but it'll be near impossible to know if he's actually going to do it, since he can invent whatever he wants. And it'll be very unlikely we catch him if he's got his own agenda. Say for example, he's giving guns to people and killing more people during the night. He can blame it on the SK or the Jack (and maybe the jack would counterclaim he didn't, but it'd still be messy). I am not in favor of sacking a person to figure out alignment. First off we don't even know if there even is an alignment cop (it's reasonable to assume there is though). Most importantly, there's only 1 alignment cop in the game. In past mafia games I've seen, when cops didn't know their sanity, plans like this worked well because there'd be multiple cops (3 usually), and they'd all be able to figure out their alignment (or at least get close to it). With only 1 cop, it seems a waste of time to try to agree on someone to lynch in advance. On May 03 2010 06:36 d3_crescentia wrote: Why shouldn't we make Bill and Foolishness claim? Should one of them be the CompVig, we lynch him and put that power into Qatol's hands. Our Medic protect can then go on the remaining guy. The Tracker can then follow Qatol on Night 2 and report if he saw two visits from Qatol. I suppose the Mafia can always refuse to use their NK if Qatol's gunning for them. I think it goes without saying that claiming early always benefits the mafia. Although it's quite easy to read between the lines in this game -_- | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 03 2010 08:25 Korynne wrote: Inventor and Compulsive Vigilante are NOT easy to keep track of. As in, if Foolishness and BM are not said roles but are instead mafia, they can easily pass the roles to someone else and that person will carry out the roles (as town directs them to). We definitely must check them for alignment. Now looking at it this way, it feels like Qatol's plan was a terrible idea. Dx Did you read my post? How is compulsive vigi not easy to keep track of? If he/she doesn't kill who we vote on, we lynch him. Everyone keeps saying he's deadly in the hands of the mafia but the only way he is is if the town is in a "need to lynch mafia or game is over" scenario (or close to it I guess). Otherwise compulsive vigi is just giving the town a double lynch. Yes, if the compulsive vigi is mafia, we don't have much way of knowing, but there are far worse concerns right now. Inventor can pretty much do whatever he wants. Qatol wants him to give bulletproof vests to people. I'm all for that. However we only get to know the invention, and not specifically how it works. A clever inventor can think up something which may look beneficial to the town, but could be helping the mafia. | ||
Foolishness
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Foolishness
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Where is everyone? | ||
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On May 03 2010 15:04 Bill Murray wrote: i am inventing a newspaper for clues to be in the day post That is the most epic post I've read in a long while | ||
Foolishness
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On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote: I have a slightly different stance: Do not claim unless you have something to contribute. My claim told us that the copycat is likely in mafia hands (or at least a townie working against the town). Korynne's claim was important too because it told us that someone in the first 2 players is playing against the town. Just giving us your role isn't important or useful. You need to be able to give the town important information by roleclaiming. Thanks for saving me the trouble of having to post something like this...although I kinda already did in an indirect stance. At the very least, if someone can give me a good reason why I should be upfront about my role I'll gladly say something. But I don't see any reason. I think people are REALLY overlooking the fact that almost anybody could be lying about what role they have. Has anyone ever thought that Qatol lied about taking the copycat and is in fact some other role? Personally I don't think it's true, but all options must be considered. I just find it so hard to believe that so many people near the top of the draft did not get a role. It seems so unbelievable, especially when you know a few roles are going to get grabbed by the top few players (it was even discussed in Qatol's plan in the thread). When you could easily snag any other role why go for one of those? Opz says he picked his role without reading the thread. That's garbage in my opinion. sidesprang still looks fishy, but when he says someone is definitely lying, I can't help but feel for him. Again, I'm not saying anything about my role unless someone can provide good reason. As I believe there are huge incentives to lie, I think that myself claiming could only distract from what needs to be done. At the same time, it seems that everyone is blindly believing what everyone says about their role, and I think you all should consider things from my perspective first. What if I had listened to Qatol and took the roleblocker, do you really think I'm going to come out about it now? That'd be a shit storm. If I waited a day or two, then my position could become more believable depending on who dies and who we find is mafia. On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote: Your plan for voting on CompVig kills is solid, except I think we should be doing it during the night. Often the lynch gives information. I'd rather make that kill when I'm as informed as possible. As you said earlier, Korynne probably tried to take CompVig. It was the role we assigned to her. I would be very surprised if she tried to take anything else. This means that CompVig is somewhere in the first 2 roles. I'm more worried that Inventor slipped. I approve this message, however given the inactivity of voting yesterday (I think more people did NOT vote than actually voted...) I don't recommend this. Obviously if something big comes up and it's really clear that we need to change who the CompVig hits, then sure. Otherwise we should pick during the day. And speaking of which, that needs to be decided upon as well as the lynch today. On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote: On May 04 2010 05:38 Bill Murray wrote: Well, I have just been informed I would have to only give my newspaper to one person. I had considered this, and as a result I will be inventing someone else like a gun to give someone. I am not 100% sure what it will be yet. Okay, Bill has just confirmed that he has taken inventor. I don't see how this confirms anything. Have we not considered BM is lying about being inventor? Does this idea not seem so far fetched? Remember this is BM we're dealing it. Imagine this scenario: instead of finding out the inventor made a cell phone, we find out the inventor made a life-vest or something. Of course we're going to be like, ...wtf at first, but then we see BM makes a post right under of "sorry guys, I realized that my plan to form a town circle wasn't going to work, so I went and did this instead, since it was discussed in thread". I'm pretty sure the general reaction to everyone would be "ughh....Bill Murray..." and that'd be the end of it. Yet if anyone else tried that I'm sure they'd be under heavy pressure right now, and they'd be first candidate for lynch. Ya'll think BM is really this stupid? I've played enough games with the guy to know he's not. On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote: 2 things of note: 1. The invention of a cell phone. This does NOT confirm Bill Murray's innocence yet. There is still a mafia use for a cell phone. Cell phones are frequently used to detonate bombs. If we start seeing bombs given out, then the inventor (probably not Bill) is mafia. Otherwise, the inventor (Bill) is innocent. This kinda seems contradictory with what you said above, but yes. I wrote my spiel above before I saw this. On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote: How about we day vigi Sidesprang and then look at lynching Foolishness? That's great and all except we're trying to lynch mafia, not townspeople. On May 05 2010 06:54 Qatol wrote: Oh another thing I want to know: was anyone roleblocked last night? We need to know if there is a roleblocker out there. Ace said he will PM the person if they got roleblocked, irregardless if they have a role or not. I don't think revealing if you got roleblocked means anything unless you're obviously town, which is nobody at this point. You also said roleblocker can choose to not roleblock someone. Considering you wanted me to pick the roleblocker and do exactly that for the entire game, maybe that's what happened during the night. On May 05 2010 06:00 Scamp wrote: Falcynn seems scummiest to me. The compusive vig is interesting because people really want to see what happens with it, but why I can't say. If the mafia has CV as well as day vig that's a lot of KP that's going to be pointed our way. I also don't really see how the CV is that beneficial to the town. Sure, it's like a double lynch, but this isn't a big game and the mafia KP is very small. Why is it good to double-lynch all the time? Better than having it in mafia hands, I guess, but I don't see it as that good a thing. I do like having a CV-directing discussion because there's also a serial killer out there as well. The thing about the serial killer is that he wants to help town until the very end. Perhaps he'll start targeting townies if we get a few mafia really early, but that's the only reason why he'd try and kill town (unless the tracker is discovered). He'll lose if the mafia win, so he needs to kill mafia, and he needs to kill them first. We should be talking about this right now. As far as I can see it, sidesprang is dead unless he posts again. Until that time let's figure out who else to kill. If you think sidesprang's alignment should influence who we kill at night, say so and give people to kill in each situation. If Amnesia is not going to get modkilled, I vote him. While he's a good candidate to lynch, I feel like using the CompVig to kill inactives is safer (more so because we can all agree on it. I don't want to be in a scenario where the town is 50/50 on deciding who the CompVig is to hit because that more or less leaves it up to the CompVig to decide, which is bad in the event the CompVig is mafia). On May 05 2010 06:00 Scamp wrote: I don't see how killing Sidesprang gives any great information. If he flips green then someone in the top ten is lying? Yeah, I could have told you that without lynching him, since I can tell you that right now. Multiple people in the top ten are lying, all the vanilla claims should have made that obvious. While looking at the numbers is interesting and all, talking about mafia taking the same numbers and the like is silly. It's especially silly as a defense. People could, y'know, be lying about their numbers. All that being said, Sidesprang still does look suspicious, and it'd be nice if he posted. If sidesprang doesn't post more than we should definitely lynch him. His defense means nothing if he doesn't follow it up. Personally, I think if there's a dayVigi they should wait until later on to use their kill. On May 05 2010 06:00 Scamp wrote: Bill never explained what that phone was supposed to do, did he? Nope. But even if he gave some wavy explanation, you'd totally believe him like everyone else right? | ||
Foolishness
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On May 05 2010 08:59 Korynne wrote: Also flamewheel it's okay, apparently everyone on the internet is assumed male unless proven. xP But seriously Foolishness if you are town, you should claim either compvig or not compvig. If I was mafia and I was lying, then I would already know you are not compvig. If I was mafia and telling the truth, and BM is mafia with me, then I would already know if you are compvig. If I was mafia and BM is town, then I doubt BM has the coordination to pull off another townie pretending to be inventor instead of him. If I was town, and mafia knows I'm town, then they know that I'm probably telling the truth, and they will know you and BM's role. So telling us whether you are compvig or not compvig only benefits town. So basically, if you claim compvig, everything's okay for now other than wtf why did you steal my role. If you claim not compvig then you and BM are under heavy scrutiny (or at least will be when I am revealed town). Have you not read anything Qatol or I have said about NOT claiming as claiming only helps the mafia? I said in my post, I will claim if it is necessary and bring impertinent information to the town. Right now me claiming does no good, so I'm not going to. You can be upset that you didn't get your role (if you're even telling the truth here), but that doesn't mean you have to force me to claim and help the mafia (but who am I kidding, you already did that yesterday, great job there btw). On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote: Yay another person trying to "subtly" poke holes in my credibility. Having fun over there with your buddy ~OpZ~? Why do you care so much about this fact? Why are you putting so much emphasis on YOUR credibility? Nobody other than yourself knows that you are innocent (unless someone checked you or something), and yet you expect us to just blindly believe everything you say? You're sounding more and more like BM as the game goes on. You're honestly expecting everyone in the town to just believe everything you say. Saying this is what is causing me to doubt your credibility, not anything else you say. Furthermore, my paragraph in which I said those things had NOTHING to do with your credibility. It was about people lying in general, and I just picked you as an example. There are huge benefits in this game to lying about what role you got or what numbers you picked, no matter what side you are on (I can clarify this point if need be). I'm trying to raise this point up because people are just believing anyone is saying. At this stage in the game, some things are not adding up right with what everyone is saying. Somebody has to be lying, somebody who's talking a lot probably. There are things left unsaid that need to be answered (what did BM's invention actually do?). Opz wants to kill me and you're calling us buddies? o.O On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote: Except you have something to contribute. If you took anything other than CompVig, you should have already roleclaimed because then we have a confirmed mafia in the first 3 players. Which is what I'm skeptical about when I mention this. In any other mafia game, it's not very well in a townspersons' interest to lie about their role. In this game it is very well in their interest. You claimed you picked copycat and didn't get the role. What I think is equally as likely (I'm not accusing you) is that you picked some other role instead. Let's assume for a moment that you are town. Given how much you emphasized in the thread you were taking copycat, it goes without saying that probably nobody below you picked it (and thus can't counter confirm your choice). Then after the picks were done you said in the thread, "hey guys I didn't get my role...wtf" (I'm paraphrasing obviously). Now the mafia think you're a green townie and won't bother hitting you. If you picked a good town role (a cop, medic, tracker, or something) you're in a great position to just do your thing for the next few days. What I'm trying to say is, even if I come out with information that says "hey guys...either BM or Korynne is lying", that doesn't necessarily mean one of us is mafia. On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote: Really? You think Bill would lie about taking the inventor role? Here's the thing: If he's innocent, it doesn't help the town for him to lie about his role. It just makes us lynch people around him whether or not we actually have solid reads on them. I would hope that he is smart enough to see that. BM said before the picks went out that he didn't even want the inventor role. I think it's possible that nobody on the list picked inventor. Or if you're lower on the list, you picked inventor and got it, would you really come out and say so? Maybe, but if I was low on the list, and was actually the inventor, I'd be very very very scared about claiming. Hell I had second pick on the draft and I'm scared to claim as it is. And you're 'if' statement there says "If he's innocent,...". What if he's not? I'm just trying to account for all possibilities here, because it seems to me nobody else is. On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote: Actually, that is wrong. Either you are town and legitimately got roleblocked (telling us there is a mafia roleblocker out there) or you are mafia and did not get roleblocked (telling us that there is no mafia roleblocker out there). I'd like to be able to figure out which of these cases is the truth. I'm kinda confused by this. What I originally meant was that claiming you got roleblocked says nothing of whether you have a special role or not. You mention that either a town or mafia member could claim to get roleblocked, and what I was saying is that if someone claims to get roleblocked, it doesn't reveal much information. This would only help later in the game if they died or if someone had checked them or something. On May 05 2010 10:08 Korynne wrote: Or actually, correction, stop trying to lynch me because you think I am mafia. It is perfectly legit to lynch me to confirm what I say about Bill/Foolishness. No it's not, we don't have time to waste like that. Lynching you to confirm what one of BM/me is says nothing about who's mafia (other than you cause you're dead and we find out). Also, that kinda talk is mafia like (the whole "fine if you don't believe me, just go ahead and kill me, then you'll see). | ||
Foolishness
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he still hasn't said anything since his one post defense | ||
Foolishness
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On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote: Maybe I want credibility because I'm sick and tired of being ignored? (notice how early I tried to focus on a lynch on day 1 yet we still managed to have a no lynch? People didn't even really argue about it? They just focused on the roles and didn't even worry about the lynch.) (additionally, notice that nobody other than opz has even mentioned that analysis of johnnyspazz - how is the guy this slippery when he isn't even posting?) Anyways, I'm done with this. Just don't stop reading my posts. If you disagree with the logic in them, point it out like Zona did earlier. Dismissing them out of hand or saying that I am expecting you to just follow them does not help anyone. If you aren't persuaded, tell me why. Please clarify your point about why you would want to lie about your numbers if you're innocent. Yeah, after thinking about it, I don't think there's any reason to lie about your numbers, especially now that the draft's far over and we kinda have an idea of who's what. I can be sympathetic of you being tired of being ignored. However first day you were here early, then you just disappeared for a long while, which didn't help your cause (yeah I know you were sick, but if you hadn't been and had been around during this time we'd be in a much different position about you methinks). And contrary, I haven't dismissed any of your posts, more of I'm questioning your attitude. I'm not persuaded because it seems to me you're taking up a BM attitude here: "guys, it's obvious I'm greener than grass, you should listen to me". Frankly, it's not obvious to us (although your constant activity right now helps). That's why I kept mentioning of thinking things from everyone's perspective, and to think of all possibilities, however ridiculous. As for Jspazzz, I will agree on your point that he is filler-posting and has yet to make a contribution of his own. Looking through past games quickly, I'd say he's about as active as during BM's game (a little less maybe) and about as active as during flamewheel's game. Both times he was green. I'll need to look through more games for a better consensus on that. If nobody has any better idea on who the CompVig should kill then we should go with that, especially if Amnesia gets modkilled. On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote: I'll reserve my judgment on this until I see the first CompVig hit. But if they aren't following the town, you NEED to speak up. And I think that it is impossible that nobody picked the inventor because we saw a cell phone made. After Bill said that he was trying to make a town circle and something about being able to PM on day 4. After Bill was talking about making a town circle. It sure seems to me like he has the role or is working with the person that has it. And yes, if I were the one with the inventor role, I would roleclaim. Why? because it means we have found someone actively working against the town (Bill). Right, my bad on that, there must be an inventor. However, if BM didn't take inventor and it fell into the mafia hands, they might have incentive to keep quiet about it. And I still say BM could have picked a cop with a "i'm going to win this game for the town when i come out with all this information day 3!!!!" attitude. On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote: All I want to know is whether we have a roleblocker out there working against us. Personally, I'd like to know what the mafia can do. Maybe it won't matter, maybe we wind up in a situation where we should have a DT roleclaim while we drop our medic on them. I'd like to know if that is an option. Fair enough. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 05 2010 11:33 johnnyspazz wrote: ##Vote Sidesprang## after reading through everything, i agree that sidesprang would be a good lynch target why aren't people using the compvig vote idea that was brought up earlier in the game? I was against it given the inactivity of the town day 1. Day's almost over anyways, might as well start discussing it now. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 05 2010 12:01 johnnyspazz wrote: funny you should say this because i didn't even play in flamewheel's game flamewheel's TL mafia XX | ||
Foolishness
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On May 05 2010 12:02 Qatol wrote: The reason I'm taking this attitude is because I want people to think for themselves and realize that what I'm saying makes logical sense. The only true leap of faith I've asked of anyone so far was that I tried to take and didn't get copycat. I realize that this one is a leap of faith which I'm hoping my behavior will speak for. Other than that, I am hoping that my posts make sense from a logical point of view. Have I said anything else which you think requires a leap of faith? It means that the logic hasn't come through entirely, and that should be rectified. I'm not entirely sold that you picked copycat. Assuming you did pick copycat, I'm not entirely sold that someone else got the role before you (in other words, you really are the copycat). Neither of these points necessarily means your mafia, I realize. In my second game of mafia, I called out 4 of the 6 remaining mafia right before I died, with, from my perspective, ample evidence to warrant lynches (I also correctly identified all the remaining blues). All those mafia survived until the end. I know what it's like to be ignored, that's why I'm responding to all your posts like this. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 06 2010 06:24 DarthThienAn wrote: It makes sense for the medic to protect him - mafia still have a hit. But not multiple medics - the only reason why he would need more than one is if he's worried that, if Foolishness if mafia, they'll try to do a trade? Which doesn't sound unreasonable since the Inventor is such a powerful role. But I kinda feel like this would be a bad trade for us - considering the number of vanilla claims that have gone through, I feel like the town is short on roles, so having the Inventor is really important imo. You really think the town is short on roles given the huge list of town roles to choose from? (There's definitely a few roles on the list that the mafia would never grab outside the sole purpose of not letting the town have it). You think that 3-5 people ended up picking CV or Inventor? I don't think anyone here is that dumb, people are obviously lying about being a townie. So wait, first BM says I'm mafia and I'm going to kill him at night, then he says he's entrusting the laptop to me to find a mafia? Let's try to be more wishy-washy please. | ||
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On May 06 2010 10:07 Scamp wrote: Bill Murray seems to be doing everything he can to get me killed. I think BM has gone back and forth between about 4 people so far for who he thinks is most obviously mafia. Don't worry, it'll blow over in another few hours at the current rate. | ||
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On May 06 2010 08:15 Radfield wrote: Bill, to avoid getting lynched you need to prove to everyone, not just Qatol, that you are pro-town. You have a very, very powerful ability, that is very deadly to the town if it's in mafia hands. Unfortunately for you, the person you passed out the phone to died the same night. This sucks for you, because it's suspicious by it's very nature. This is why tonight, you need to make an invention that is very obviously pro-town, so we can all go "phew" looks like Bill is very unlikely to be mafia. If you invent something obscure again, against the direct wishes of the town, what other option are you leaving us? Look at it from our point of view, we HAVE to be sure the inventor is on our side. The only way to be sure is if the inventor is following instructions from the towns collective judgement. How else can we be sure? This | ||
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On May 06 2010 11:35 johnnyspazz wrote: so if i turn green, how likely is jeejee red? Explain. I don't see the connection. | ||
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On May 06 2010 14:01 Qatol wrote: Hmm the Night post has a few interesting points. Only 2 deaths: johnnyspazz and Bill Murray. Did we have a hit blocked? Or did the mafia and the SK happen to hit the same target? If anyone else has more information about the night (like if you took a hit), please come forward. I think the overlap is a good possibility. Before night was over, there were 14? people alive and only 3 mafia, so it's possible the SK thought the town was favored. SK wants to keep the numbers balanced as much as possible, so killing off a very strong town role would be beneficial (assuming he thought BM was innocent). Also, there's no invention. Does the invention not happen because BM died? | ||
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On May 06 2010 15:20 Amnesia wrote: oh shit.. Okay so can anyone cliffnotes me the important stuff? Final exams here and I am super busy. Here On May 05 2010 16:01 Ace wrote: Amnesia (Vanilla Town) has been mod-killed | ||
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On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote: What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner. Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea? I'm confused. Won't day be well over in 10 hours? If the medic is to claim they should do it before day ends so we have ample time to move votes around. After missing a lynch on the first day I don't think we can afford to do the same thing. I'm also against the idea of the medic claiming in general because they will just die next night. The other medic is already dead (copycat is dead too, although he was mafia), BM is gone so he can't invent anything for protection. Doesn't seem like there's any way for the medic to survive the night if the mafia figure out who it is. Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? After writing that last paragraph, this is actually quite fishy. Nobody else claimed to take a hit. Maybe he's the SK and chose NOT to hit someone to get credibility. | ||
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On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote: Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me. On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it. Maybe not. There could be a Jack protection. Given the lack of roles that were obtained in this game, it's very possible there's no other medic. It still doesn't add up. There's no way he could know there was a medic | ||
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On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote: Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection. Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why? Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out. The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either. And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around. | ||
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On May 07 2010 06:32 Qatol wrote: So you think the mafia picked 1? Darth was just mentioning that he did not think that was the case because of L/Bill Murray both claiming to have taken [1][1]. Do you disagree? Why? I don't think you can make a fair judgment as to "oh mafia picked this number" or "mafia probably wouldn't pick this number". Someone mentioned early on about picking 1,1 because of WIFOM argument or something, whatever that means (I'm sure it's important because everyone uses this acronym). Just because they said they were taking it doesn't mean they will, this is a game about lying. I pretty much just incriminated myself there considering I picked 1,1. I think everyone but Hobbes has posted enough where we don't really need to make judgments based on numbers. I like your theory that mafia wouldn't pick the same numbers, and I'm sure that's the case, but we shouldn't be using it as a final decision on who we lynch (I'm not accusing you of doing this, just pointing it out). | ||
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On May 07 2010 07:08 Korynne wrote: Hobbes: Most notably claims he has a fun, fun role (Which JeeJee somewhat confirmed) Agrees that inventor and compvig should be monitored by town Sad about noone voting day 1, votes for johnnyspazz due to different play than previous game Says that anyone taking copycat and town aligned would be stupid and no help, so agrees with lynching sidesprang Makes a shifty compvig+weakdoctor plan that didn't work Is now away catching up on sleep. Conclusion: Really inactive, basically bandwagony, nothing exciting really. He didn't post much in the other game he was townie either. Verdict: Not very suspicious. Would like it if Hobbes contributed more though. Not going to lie, your analyses' seemed a bit half-assed. I assume that this is your way of responding to my post about you without actually addressing the key issues? ##Vote: Korynne | ||
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On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote: The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat). Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. I don't follow this at all. And I do not believe I have lied about my role at all, although if you think I have please quote me so I can clarify what I meant. | ||
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On May 07 2010 08:03 Korynne wrote: There wasn't much information on Hobbes... you go do one on Hobbes and tell me what insightful information you find. >_> Oh right, let's quote the smaller of the analyses I do... I was not responding to your post, I was responding to Radfield being like you inactive and who you think is mafia. And me being like k imma post analysis later. It was more of a response to your analysis in general, I wasn't trying to specifically point out one or the other, that was just the most recent one at the time of writing. And yeah, if it was actually up to me, I'd lynch Hobbes instantly over you. He hasn't contributed anything, I don't care if he has a "fun fun role" if he doesn't use it (JeeJee's skepticism about it is good enough). He's been ignored all game by everyone, and everyone's assuming he's got his "fun fun role" which is town aligned. I don't buy it at all. Even now he just popped in with a quickie to explain his actions. It's hardly any different from what sidesprang did yesterday. The reason I'm voting you over him right now is because he has a chance (small in my opinion) of coming through for the town. It all depends on his role, but if he comes out tomorrow with information then I can't complain (actually, I probably will, but we'll leave it for tomorrow). If his activity continues into tomorrow he should be lynched, no questions asked. I've learned more about Amnesia this game than I have about him. On May 07 2010 08:03 Korynne wrote: I'm assuming this is the post you want me to reply to (if not redirect me to the post you want me to reply to). "pretty standard mafia move"s are pretty terrible moves for mafia to make since that would make them seem mafia no? My last game I was active the whole way through. First game I kinda dropped off at the end as well cuz it was like blargh...we don't really have anything to go on. I felt the same here, it was like omg planz cool cool and then like, oh shit, plans didn't work out so well... and not really sure where to proceed. It's not so much a fine just kill me attitude as like a, well you can kill me if you need to, to prove that BM/Foolishness is mafia when it comes to that. Because I feel like we don't have a whole lot of checks to throw around so if there was a situation where if I was telling the truth then we are pretty sure about who of them is mafia, then killing me (vanilla townie) then them (power role mafia) seems like a good idea since it's like, 1 for 1, and I'm vanilla and killing me first would be like making sure me as a mafia doesn't lead you to killing a town aligned power role. This last paragraph you wrote is exactly what I was talking about. You shouldn't want to die for the benefit of the town. All these guys around here say "well this person being clean means this guy's mafia" or "he turned up red, obviously this guy's mafia as well" is useless thinking, and distracts from actually finding mafia. I've yet to play a game where we lynched someone, then made the conclusion "okay this guy's mafia" and lynched him the following day. It doesn't happen. I vote for people because I think they are mafia based on their attitude. Straight up. If you want to make the appeal that you dying could show that someone else is mafia, convince the rest of the people here, but I doubt any action will actually result. On May 07 2010 08:07 Radfield wrote: Also, if we don't get a mafia tonight, we are basically forced to lynch Foolishness tomorrow in an effort to buy time. We don't need to discuss this yet, but lets keep it in mind. You got lots of explaining to do with this, but as you said it can wait until tomorrow since there are more pertinent things. | ||
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On May 07 2010 08:26 Qatol wrote: Look, Foolishness, Hobbes, and citi.zen. The lynch on Darth just gives us more information than a lynch on Korynne does. We need to just put SOMETHING together. I honestly think that Scamp is more suspicious, but I agree with Radfield that there is something to gain from this lynch. Please change your votes. We can't afford another no lynch. Nothing is going to get put together. That's never the case. I don't think we can draw conclusions either way. We should be hunting based on attitude, there's plenty to go by, not by trying to figure out who's death gives us the most information. I would rather kill someone no matter who (not myself though) than have a no lynch. If you're short majority near time I will gladly change. We can't afford not lynching someone. | ||
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On May 07 2010 09:08 ~OpZ~ wrote: Hey hey hey....I've only read from my last post page (prior to the one before) but I notice Foolishness is insanely good at ignoring things directed at him, and good at quoting the same poster later and using him to attack someone, (he did with bm). I've quoted several posts, but I want to get to the last page before so I can consolidate it (I still remember being banned by plexa) Perhaps I should play like you and make a claim about someone and not back it up with any evidence? And I should also not read the thread, because other people aren't important. Thanks for your input on who we should lynch, really helps us here. | ||
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Just one more needed I think | ||
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On May 07 2010 10:26 ~OpZ~ wrote: And also smart ass, MY INPUT was INTENTLY focused on my Civ and Lit/Humanities essays. I'm sorry mafia hasn't been my prime concern, I know it isn't yours, because I'd wager you have under 12 posts more than me since I've started posting again today. I personally am all for having you killed. You're going to do nothing but wind up hurting the town, and I think it's already obvious you'll have to die for the greater good eventually. Rage much? I read your first long post on the previous page, it honestly looked like you hadn't read the thread at all. You bring up the point that Radfield might be the SK, then blame Qatol for not thinking about it. If you had looked a few pages back I spent a good 3 posts detailing why Radfield could be the SK, not to mention in great detail of why he would say the things he's said, which is more than you going "What if he's the SK?" and then moving on to a different topic. That compiled with the fact you cast your role pick without reading the thread, makes me think you just look at random pages and then post. Actually, you admitted to doing that early. I guess you did read go back and read and then make a better post, but still a waste of space. And nobody cares what you are doing with your life. I also don't recall even saying anything with regard to that. I wasn't even trying to argue with you, just bringing up points, but hey, if Ace and L and Showtime! are your idols than whatever makes you happy. I've still yet to hear what you think about the lynch right now. You spent a good deal of time talking about your inventions and the inventor and what not. I doubt anybody actually read it because it's not pertinent anymore cause our inventor's dead. I don't think you've mentioned anything in detail about the lynch other than "Korynne would be a worthless lynch". Care to explain why you feel this way? Oh, it must be because I voted for her. Because I'm obviously the root of all evil in the world and everything comes back to be being a "smart-ass" and me "bitching" about everything. In fact, everything you have is directed at me. That's cool and I can respect that, but we have to lynch someone, and I think we barely have majority here. I'll gladly here your accusations stemmed from you not entirely reading the thread after we finish up with our kills today. I thought mafia was supposed to be getting more civil than that. Are you bitter cause I half-assed called you out in Incognito's two family mafia game and figured out you were mafia or something? Honestly I'd actually take your posts seriously if you tried a bit harder. As a reminder, we need to decide on CompVig hit. I know some people want different hits depending on Darth's alignment, but we should bring these points up as it's getting close to time. | ||
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On May 08 2010 04:21 Qatol wrote: But that's exactly what I'm wondering about. What if he really WAS medic protected? Medic protection generally supercedes all other kinds except martyr, and if I were medic, he is the player I would have watched that night. As far as the "took a hit" claim goes - yes, that is almost always the right call in this situation. At the same time, I feel like someone would have claimed medic at this point. Nearly everyone alive has been under heat from someone else or another (besides Hobbes, which is why he needs to die if he doesn't deliver), and from my perspective any of us could have claimed medic reasonably (i.e. Scamp has been under a lot of pressure, if he came out before day ended yesterday and said he was medic, it'd be believable because he doesn't want to die). That's my reasoning why I said we probably don't have a medic. At any rate it's probably best for us to just assume worst case scenario in that we don't have a medic. Making a plan and hoping for a medic save along the way is not the way to go. Yo guys, night is ~7 hours away from ending. We need a CompVig hit. If the votes so far stay the way they are it's going to be up to the CompVig's discretion to choose who to hit. And ya'll know who I want to hit. | ||
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On May 08 2010 05:39 Qatol wrote: I don't think you should be hitting Korynne. While she has been quiet, a mafia also just pushed pretty hard to get her lynched. That doesn't necessarily mean she is innocent (the mafia could be using this as a way to keep her out of the spotlight), but I think she just merits more watching right now. We can lynch her if her activity level doesn't increase. I think you should be hitting either Scamp or Zona (with my preference on Zona unless he speaks up). JeeJee voted Scamp. Several times. Citi.zen voted me. Scamp voted Hobbes. Does anyone else have a second choice? If I missed a vote, it wasn't in the last 4ish pages or it wasn't bolded. So anyone feel free to correct me. That's a good point about Korynne. Also, she claims to be green and have no role. If she were mafia with Darth, I think the mafia would have tried to push Korynne for lynch instead of Darth, since Darth would be more valuable to the mafia since he has a role. While this doesn't excuse her attitude, I guess they are notable points. Given's Zona recent inactivity, I'm totally cool hitting him. I'm skeptical about hitting Scamp though. I'd still choose Hobbes over these two guys. | ||
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On May 08 2010 11:46 Scamp wrote: What the hell? No one is here? Compvigging me is a MAJOR mistake with a capital M. Throwing that out there last-second. That's what I said, but I'm in a very awkward situation here. | ||
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On May 08 2010 12:05 Qatol wrote: Ace, Hobbes hasn't posted in something like 2 days 6 hours. Zona hasn't posted in almost 2 days. Can we get a warning or something here? I like just killing them both. | ||
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On May 08 2010 16:02 Korynne wrote: Ok, so. We have: Falcynn citi.zen Korynne Foolishness ~Opz~ Qatol 2 mafia, 4 townies. Lynch a townie: We dead, unless we compvig a mafia. Lynch a mafia: We all good for tomorrow. So again, we probably shouldn't kill Foolishness unless we're like 90% sure he's mafia because without compvig we're dead overnight if we screw it up. We got 1 mafia, 5 townies. We mislynch, it goes to night with 1 mafia, 4 townies. Assuming all night hits go through, mafia hits someone, 1 mafia 3 townies. Comp Vig makes a night hit too. If he doesn't hit mafia, 1 mafia 2 townies. So worse case scenario we still have another day. Unless someone's a Vigi or Jack and makes another kill somewhere, but given the claims so far that seems incredibly unlikely. | ||
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On May 08 2010 16:49 Korynne wrote: No I don't feel you. I just explained why it doesn't make a difference if we keep him alive. Game will end 1 day sooner if you keep me alive | ||
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On May 08 2010 17:06 Korynne wrote: How will it end sooner... We have 2 days either way...and 3 tries instead of 2 tries to hit mafia if we keep you around (and mafia kills you tonight). So right now my choices for lynch would be: Qatol, Falcynn, or OpZ. If you kill me today, 1mafia/5 town. Goes to night, 1 mafia/4town. If you mislynch, 1 mafia/3 town, goes to night, 1 mafia/2town. Lynch ends the game Worst case scenario there's 3 more days (including today). Keep me alive and we mislynch, 1mafia/5town. Goes to night, mafia hit. Lets say my hit doesn't hit mafia. 1 mafia/3town. Lynch ends the game as if there's a mislynch it goes to night and mafia will kill someone and win. Worst case scenario there's 2 more days (including today). This is all assuming all hits go through, meaning there's no Jack/bulletproof/etc alive. | ||
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On May 08 2010 17:27 Korynne wrote: Foolishness who do you think is mafia? You, for all the reasons said before. If I had to pick someone other than you, I'd pick Falcynn at the moment, but I need to do some rereading before making a final call. | ||
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On May 08 2010 17:37 Qatol wrote: I'd like to point out that I was the one pushing for the CompVig hit on Zona. I realize it probably gets me nowhere in anyone's eyes, but it is still a fact. With Zona flipping scum, as Korynne mentioned, citi.zen is cleared through the numbers. (I think the mafia would have to be insane to double up on 12 with the original setup.) Does it? How? Let's assume you are innocent: 5 1 - lynch an innocent player other than you 4 1 - mafia miss, you miss 2 1 - lynch or lose 5 1 - lynch you 4 1 - mafia miss 3 1 - this is still lynch or lose. If the town mislynches here, we still lose. This is because we would be at 2 1 with a mafia hit incoming. That takes us down to 1 1 and mafia win if their numbers equal our own. Anyways, I have an analysis of you in the works. You have some questions I think you need to answer. I pointed it out above. Ends one day sooner. Your math is wrong here. Stick to your draft numbers, you know the thing you have been focusing on ALL GAME LONG. If your analysis has anything to do with the draft or number picking, I'm not going to bother to respond. You need arguments that aren't centered around it; my eyes are continually sore from your repetitive arguments about people picking numbers. I always thought you were more of a behavioral analysis guy, not an Ace "omg guys I found the ultimate plan to find the mafia if any of you disagree with me we kill you!" kinda guy. | ||
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Am I right? Am I right? Am I right? That was my devious plan from the beginning. Modkill my mafia buddy to prove me innocent. Not to mention modkill my PARDONER mafia buddy, who could save me from lynch. And now that I think about it, if I was mafia with him, we might actually have this game in the bag had he been alive. With a pardon, and 2 kills each night, I think we'd win no matter what (definitely need to double check the numbers, I'm too tired to do so). So yes, I gave up a possible auto win to modkill my mafia buddy to try to prove my innocence, and hope to avoid 2 days' worth of lynches. You found out my plan. GG. | ||
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On May 08 2010 18:06 Qatol wrote: Actually, there is a mistake in your analysis. Here is what you said: 5 1 - mislynch 4 1 - mafia kill an innocent 3 1 - mislynch 2 1 - lynch ends the game? I see a missing night hit. Town still only gets 2 lynches no matter who we lynch. If you think my biggest strength was ever behavioral analysis, you seriously need to reread mafia 4. However, I still found Zona, didn't I? Why have I been making those arguments on numbers? Well have they been wrong yet? Actually, they have been 100% correct so far. I said that the mafia likely didn't pick two of the same number. So far we have seen a [6][1], [8][1], and [12][1]. I said that after we found sidesprang and darth were mafia, JeeJee was cleared. Notice how he was pretty much instantly hit. Pushing for Zona to be modkilled doesn't exactly get you anywhere. How would you look if you had been fighting against him getting modkilled? Especially if you had only been fighting against HIM and not Hobbes too? I don't think that really gets you anything either way. And a pardoner mafia buddy still can't pardon if he isn't around to do so. My analysis wasn't going to mention this at all, but thanks for highlighting that it does nothing for or against you. But don't you worry. I have a real analysis coming on you. Obviously I would've just not said anything when it came time. Instead of saying "just kill them both". So you saying Zona is mafia before we find out says your innocent. Me agreeing with you on the fact then telling Ace to modkill him doesn't make me innocent? Oh wait you're a vet. I forgot that normal mafia rules don't apply to you, and that you are superior to all. All hail Qatol. He figured out my plan to modkill my own teammate to make me look innocent. You lynch me today, there will be 1 mafia and 5 townspeople. It will go to night time. After night time, there will be 1 mafia and 4 townspeople. Let's say you mislynch, so there are 1 mafia and 3 townspeople. It goes to night, mafia kill, there will be 1 mafia and 2 townspeople. It goes to day. Town gets to lynch. That's 3 lynches total. And a total of 3 days pass (including today). Let's say you toss away your vet ego and think rationally (I know this won't happen, but I'm an optimist when it comes to people changing). So you decide to not lynch me. Let's say we mislynch. 1 mafia and 5 townspeople. It goes to night. Mafia get to kill, and I get to kill. 1 mafia and 3 townspeople. It's day time. We mislynch we lose. That's 3 lynches total (2 at day, and the 1 whoever you pick me to kill). And a total of 2 days pass (including today). Your math is wrong. You do law. I do math. I know your a vet and that's supposed to make you smarter than me, but it doesn't. Oh by the way guys, I purposely modkilled my mafia teammate even though we could have possibly instantly won. | ||
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I'll assume best case scenario and say Hobbes was modkilled, but Zona wasn't. So that's 2 mafia/6 townspeople. If you guys mislynch it'll be game over, that's pretty obvious. If you lynch one of us, Zona pardons and it goes to night. We would kill 2. So that's 2 mafia/4 townspeople. You lynch the same person you chose before, since I'm assuming Zona cannot pardon the same person twice. That'd be 1 mafia/4 townspeople. If I was alive I'd kill 2, but that wouldn't be game over, Zona would only be able to kill one if I died, and that wouldn't be game over either. So there wasn't an instant win. But we could have forced the town into a situation where if they mislynch they lose, which is really really good for the mafia. But I gave that up anyways, even knowing that I'd probably be number 1 lynch candidate. All hail Qatol. | ||
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On May 08 2010 18:25 Korynne wrote: Uh Foolishness. There's 6 of us left. So after we lynch you we're left with 1 mafia and 4 townspeople. Is this your slipup as mafia? xD As in, oh hey, if I die there's 5 townies left. xP Oh there's 6 of us left total. Wow oops. One of your earlier posts implied there were 6 townspeople so I assumed that. It's late, oh well. My bad on that. | ||
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On May 08 2010 18:29 Korynne wrote: FOOLISHNESS U CAN'T COUNT THERE ARE SIX OF US LEFT... YEAH MY BAD I REALIZE NOW | ||
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On May 08 2010 18:27 Korynne wrote: So FoS is on you Foolishness. xD But I still say we lynch someone today, compvig someone tonight, and then kill Foolishness tomorrow. So at least we would have all 3 attempts at lynching someone. This. You kill me now you only get 2. Well 1 in the long run since I'm clean. arrgghhhh I'm so retarded. | ||
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On May 08 2010 18:37 Qatol wrote: Okay good. You see it. And remember, I have an engineering degree. It isn't like I don't do math too. You know better than that...... And it's good for you too. You can just forget your big analysis post of me because my stupidity is hampering the town more than a mafia right now @.@ | ||
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On May 08 2010 19:03 Korynne wrote: I'm okay with Foolishness shooting himself tonight... but like, I don't see how he would agree to it is my only concern with that plan. xP If he does agree to shoot himself and is not mafia, then he should give his full analysis before killing himself. =P After being so incredibly retarded I'm almost okay with shooting myself right now. Honestly I'm probably too tired so I'm just going to wait until I calm down and sleep and then discuss it. REMEMBER DONT READ PAGE 44 GUYS! | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 09 2010 05:19 Korynne wrote: I guess if that's what it comes down to. =( If Falcynn is mafia I'm blaming it all on you Qatol. xD If Qatol turns out mafia then it's citi.zen's fault for clearing you. =P With a good amount of you wanting me dead I don't suppose there's anything I can do about it. Foolishness has been wanting to get his hands on me for ages. xP I guess I'm okay with this plan, I could always try to argue between me and Falcynn if/after OpZ turns out town. So we all good with lynching OpZ then? (other than OpZ, of course. xD) I'd like to hear if OpZ has a roleclaim before he is lynched. Arrgghhh this is why I want to kill you, you shouldn't be wanting to die just like that, especially if you're innocent. You should be far from okay with this plan. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 09 2010 04:47 Qatol wrote: We decided that the final lynch or lose situation is slightly easier if we don't kill Foolishness now. You are probably taking the mafia hit tonight (because of your numbers), so please pick all 3 hits you want to see done. That leaves 4 players for our first 2 hits: Korynne, OpZ, Falcynn, and myself. If you want to take me off the list too, that leaves Korynne, OpZ, and Falcynn. Please pick 2 of them. Then add Foolishness to the list and pick 1 more player. Apparently Foolishness can't shoot himself. Unfortunate. That said, the two I would like to see take a hit are Korynne and OpZ. Sorry OpZ, I know we are using you a bit. However, do you see what kind of situation we are placed in? You, Korynne, and Falcynn will likely each push for the other 2 to die right now. That leaves the other 3 of us to figure out who to lynch/CompVig. I just don't see Falcynn being able to make the night hit on JeeJee. (I checked his posts and basically all of his posts in the last week have either been here or in a blog about his film. I think his activity levels are at least the same on TL as they are here.) That leaves me with Korynne and OpZ. I'm okay with dealing with you two in either order. However, I'm thinking I want OpZ to go first because of Korynne's CompVig claim. Yes, I realize that OpZ claimed he also went for it and missed, but Korynne claimed first. I think it is more likely that she does not have a role. Meanwhile, with OpZ's newfound interest in the BP role, I think there is a possibility that he has said role. If we want to kill the two, we need to lynch him and shoot her. It can't be the other way around. The only reason I can see for going after Falcynn is in the hopes that he has the Jack role. So I guess I'm advocating this order: OpZ, Korynne, Foolishness. Thoughts citi.zen? Foolishness? Well, obviously I'm not okay with this plan as it involves killing me. And isn't it fortunate that I can't shoot myself? Pertaining to the parts of the plan that do not involve me, however, I agree that if we're going to lynch Opz we should do it during the day instead of at night. I posted earlier that I was skeptical about Opz because he claimed he picked a role without reading the thread, which I think is incredibly odd. Looking at the role list, it's easy to see that CompVig is one of the best roles to choose from, and given he was 6 on the draft list it doesn't seem sensible to choose it. Falcynn's recent inactivity has me thinking he might be mafia. I don't think he has a role though because he doesn't strike me as the type to lie about having one. I've also noticed that in a lot of games he plays as if he was a first time noob, and says things like, "but I'm just a noob at this game so I don't know any better", and "this is just my noob perspective". And every time he says these things he's innocent (I can think of two games off the top of my head); I remember because I always think he's mafia when he says stuff like that, but he turns out innocent every time. The overall point I'm making is that this game I don't think I've heard him say anything of the sort, and thus he's deviating from his normal innocent play. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 09 2010 06:17 Korynne wrote: Regarding the Falcynn thing though, I'm pretty sure he's said that. Falcynn's basically said: I was away for my filming thing [insert a bit of advertising for it] The other thing was that he did mention the whole well I'm trying to contribute people complained about that in previous games and I always agree with people etc etc. I can find that post for you if you don't find it Foolishness, but he does mention something like I'm trying to participate more kinda thing. Why do you keep going back to the same thing Foolishness? So if I say OH MY GAWD I DONT WANNA DIE DONT KILL ME you'll be okay with not lynching me? I mean if you keep repeating that it's scummy then it's not like as a scum or a townie I would want to keep doing that if I wanted to get rid of your suspicions. But seriously I don't see the point here, it's like when XeliN was like omg you didn't claim town to me so you suspicious. But like, who cares, it's not like as a townie or as a mafia I would pick differently in my opinion. If I'm doing something so obviously scummy and I keep doing it then like, it's just me doing it... you can't really take anything out of it other than your first instinct of that's scummy, and nothing I can do now will change that. Like I said, I'll wait 'til after OpZ is lynched to deal with defending myself and what nots. Let's get this first one over with. Everyone's pretty much like yeah okay Foolishness is going to be lynched tomorrow, it's not like you're jumping on defending yourself either. So should I assume you're mafia because you're doing what you said is scummy? >_> I am defending myself in my posts. I know I told everyone not to read page 44, but if you look near the bottom at my post where I outline what would happen if Zona was alive and I was mafia with him, we almost had the game instantly won. Now factor in the fact that I miscounted the number of townspeople, so we'd actually be in a much better position. Obviously we'll have to redo the counting to see the result, but the overall point is I wouldn't have modkilled my mafia buddy if I was indeed mafia like everyone suspects. I'll be okay with not lynching you if you actually tried to defend yourself instead of passively agreeing to this town plan that involves killing you. At the same time, the reason I'm not heavily defending myself in my posts is for the same reason you said above in your last paragraph. You said you'll wait until after Opz is lynched to defend yourself. I'm more or less just going to wait until tomorrow to defend myself as well. Everyone seems to have agreed to hold off on killing me until tomorrow, and I figure we're better off discussing who might be mafia now while everyone's alive then worry solely about me defending myself. Unless ya'll think it's pertinent that I defend myself ahead of time we should be thinking about potential lynches. Consequently, if we've all agreed to the plan to lynch Opz, kill you at night and lynch me tomorrow, Opz should be defending himself and you should wait until after he's lynched to defend yourself (and I do believe that's what you just said you would do). | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Why not now? Gonna wait until we all decide who to lynch so you don't accidentally slip up? Is Opz at majority already? | ||
Foolishness
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On May 09 2010 11:29 Qatol wrote: Korynne/Foolishness: vote please. Right now we aren't lynching anyone unless Ace decides to count Korynne's pseudo-vote on page 46. As I just outlined, it is in the best interest of the town to lynch right now. That answer's my question I guess ##Vote ~Opz~ | ||
Foolishness
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On May 10 2010 05:29 Korynne wrote: If you absolutely hate me Foolishness you could always just compvig me since either way you're getting lynched tomorrow. =P And then you'll feel miserable when mafia wins | ||
Foolishness
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Foolishness
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On May 10 2010 07:11 Korynne wrote: Why would I feel good if I was mafia and instigated you to kill me... And yes, if you killed me when Falcynn was mafia I would be like... oh shi- xD No I mean when you kill me tomorrow and I turn up clean, you'll feel good because you won the game. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 10 2010 10:32 Korynne wrote: Psh, kill the self promoter! xD I honestly don't know what to do at this point. I know I'm not mafia, and I don't sense like you're all /that/ mafia... and like Foolishness I've been suspicious of all game... citi.zen or Qatol will probably be killed tonight... bleh, guess we'll find out how things go... I'd laugh really hard if I turned up dead after night's end. I'd also pay good money to see the reaction on everyones' faces. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 10 2010 11:18 Korynne wrote: I don't think it's useful for mafia to kill you tonight. If I'm mafia, killing you tonight = me citi.zen Qatol = me dead If you're mafia, you obviously won't kill yourself xD If Qatol's mafia, killing citi.zen = qatol, me, foolishness = either you or me die If citizen is mafia, kill Qatol = citizen, me, foolishness = either you or me die If Falcynn is mafia, then we win tonight. So basically, if Qatol or citizen is mafia we've pretty much lost the game I would think... but that's kind of like a we got out-thinked or some shit. It's basically between me and Foolishness tomorrow, and either citi.zen or Qatol will be dead tonight. I mean if we no-lynch the first day, then mafia pretty much has to kill foolishness tonight to prevent us from getting a third kill tomorrow before we die. So yeah... You forgot to mention the part about who you would kill if you were mafia. Didn't want to give it away before the day post came out eh? In all honesty I'm pretty sure you would've killed Qatol or citizen though, I'm just being sarcastic there. Korynne, are you and I both going to eliminate citizen as potential mafia here? As far as I know, you're my top suspect, and I'm your top suspect, just want to make sure we don't overlook the obvious here. The important point to bring up about citizen is probably Qatol's number logic. It seems silly to think two of the mafia members would both pick twelve as their first number. HOWEVER, we do know for a fact that people went as far as picking their roles without reading the thread, so it is possible that a mafia could have picked his numbers without checking in with his buddies first. I don't find it particularly likely knowing citizen and Zona are both frequent players though. citizen do you want to roleclaim something? Now's the time to do it. You've been one of two people who haven't said anything the entire game about their role or what they chose. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I want to say that none of my actions could coincide with being mafia. I'm going to reiterate this scenario as I tried to before on page 44 (which nobody must read): If I was mafia, it makes no sense for me to modkill my mafia teammate, who we all know was the pardoner. Assuming a best case scenario, let's say that Hobbes got modkill but Zona did not. That means there would be 2 mafia and 5 townspeople alive. It seems pretty easy to see that if the town did not lynch a mafia member, it would be game over (assuming there's no saves or extra hits thrown in there). Now if you guys decided to lynch Zona, he'd be able to pardon himself (not sure if this is actually a legit move, but I think it is...) and it would go straight to nighttime. After night there'd be 2 mafia and 3 townspeople alive. If you lynched Zona again, and I'm pretty sure you can't pardon the same person twice, there'd be 1 mafia and 3 townspeople. But it would go to night, I'd kill 2 people, and there'd be 1 mafia and 1 townsperson alive, and I would win. If we were in this situation were there was 2 mafia and 5 townspeople, and I was indeed mafia with Zona, the ONLY way the town could win is by choosing to lynch me first, so that you could kill me the next day and then kill Zona. Given that you guys unanimously decided to leave me alive until the end, that wouldn't have happened. So we would have had the game pretty much instantly won. Even assuming that Zona wouldn't be able to pardon himself, you guys would have had to lynch him in order to win, and then subsequently lynch me. The point I'm trying to make here is: Why would I give up being in a nearly instant win situation if I was the mafia? I was already under scrutiny by Qatol and Korynne before the modkills, it doesn't make sense for me to have tried to modkill those guys when it was pretty clear I would be dead in another day or two. I'd also like to point out that if I had killed Qatol last night I'd only be incriminating myself further. Qatol seemed incredibly sure I was mafia, me killing him is basically saying "yup...I'm mafia". WHY WOULD I DO THAT? None of the actions so far make sense if I was mafia. If I was mafia, that basically means I gave up playing days ago and just said "...well fuck it" as nearly everything I've done is asking for myself to get killed. I'm not the mafia. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 08 2010 12:05 Qatol wrote: Ace, Hobbes hasn't posted in something like 2 days 6 hours. Zona hasn't posted in almost 2 days. Can we get a warning or something here? I said to kill them, Qatol said give a warning. 3 hours is hardly anytime to post. On May 10 2010 21:15 citi.zen wrote: If you are red korynne you are incredibly awesome. I mean... from the post about the roleblocker to the choice of 5 as your second number when all reds thus far chose 1 - it would all have to be an amazingly deep game. And if I go there I can persuade myself of anything ( hello Qatol). Foolishness on the other hand I can easily see as red. From the first post about qatol crying after he got outsmarted to the last two posts, leaving himself room to vote for me if korynne will - it's all pretty scummy. I'll take the simple explanation for once. How does a choice in a second number reflect innocence? I think you're misinterpreting me not voting. I asked Korynne if she had any inclination to you being mafia, and I gave my reasons why I don't think you are mafia. I'm analyzing all sides of this puzzle because I'm innocent. Yes, I've been harping on Korynne all game, so of course she's still my number one pick, but I considered you as an option in case I got ahead of myself. That said, Korynne hardly said anything in regards to you except "Yeah, I agree, I don't see how citizen is mafia". Don't you think it's odd that she's not taking it into consideration? Her attitude is "hurry up lets kill Foolishness", and not "Well I'm nearly certain it's Foolishness, but let's make sure citizen is legit as well". I wasn't trying to get Korynne to vote for you, I'm trying to figure things out. Also, you seem to imply that this was my "plan" of some sort, to try to get you lynched. Considering you have voted for Qatol to be lynched for 2 days this game, wouldn't it make more sense for me to kill Korynne and leave Qatol alive (I vigi'd Falcynn incase there was any confusion) and then try to convince you "yeah Qatol's sure scum, you are right"? This brings me back to my original point that if I was mafia none of my actions (particularly my kill choices) make sense. I've already laid out that if I was mafia, Zona being alive gave us a really really good chance of winning, and I would have no reason to throw that away given how much suspicion I was under. The night kills don't reflect what I would be doing if I was mafia; all the night kills just point more and more fingers at me. Isn't it a bit odd for me to incriminate myself? It's because I'm town. On May 10 2010 22:40 Korynne wrote: Well I'm confirmed green since I didn't vote for Foolishness. So Foolishness, do you have any argument for citizen or should I hammer you now? I don't see how this means you're green. Please explain. On May 10 2010 20:45 Korynne wrote: Well I know I'm not mafia. =\ I get kinda the same vibe from foolishness as I did from the other few people we lynched, as in like it feels like they're innocent. But I really can't see how it's citi.zen. =\ That would be so lame... especially considering the fact that mafia would've had to go like 12 12. Any last words Foolishness? D= (I mean if I was mafia you'd be dead by now, so like I think that makes me innocent? >.<) Another point I'd like to bring up about your last paragraph here. If you were mafia you wouldn't kill me because you know the town wants to lynch me. Also, you killing me at night is basically telling the town that you are mafia (think about it this way. I make a bunch of posts saying why I think Korynne is mafia. I press the fact that I think Korynne is mafia into the next day. Then I turn up dead after night.) It's really common idea for the mafia to try to kill those who want them dead. Last year's summer mafia game, the mafia killed myself and Caller first night because we both thought Pyrry was mafia (and he was). The difference is this late in the game you can't kill those who are calling you out because it makes you look really sketchy. And now I don't even know why I mentioned all this. Why would Korynne kill me if she knows the town is probably going to lynch me? Would you have killed me last night if you were mafia? Of course not. I'll be back later to say more. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 11 2010 03:14 Korynne wrote: What do you mean this means nothing? Citi.zen voted for Foolishness, if I was mafia, I would vote for Foolishness and then win the game. What's there not to get here... so clearly I am now town and Foolishness should present his case against citi.zen, because clearly you're the main suspect here. What do I think about it? Foolishness obviously is compvig, this was confirmed when BM said he is inventor. I was sitting around going well why would what bill said mean anything, and then realized that it has something to do with a roleblocker, hence I pointed that out in the ban thread since BM seems to keep saying his post doesn't tell town anything. Like I said, if me not voting for Foolishness immediately after citi.zen votes for him doesn't clear me as townie, I don't know what would other than lynching me. -.- Just because it's majority lynch does not mean the day ends when a majority is reached. The rules specifically say "Day last 24 hours". Also consider that each day prior to this has always been 24 hours (give or take a few) and hasn't just ended when a majority was reached. I don't see how this confirms anything. I would also think it against the spirit of the game to have majority lynch when there's so few people. It seems reasonable that a person should at least get a chance to say something to defend him/her self. This is beside the point though. On May 11 2010 04:28 Korynne wrote: Well now that citi.zen is settled. #1 Foolishness convince me why citizen looks more suspicious than you. #2 We lynch Foolishness today. Looks like I get to be the confirmed townie that gets to decide if we win or lose this game, woo. >_> You look more suspicious. I'm going to look at it from this point of view. Who would have the mafia killed last night if each of us were mafia. I vigi'd Falcynn as voted on by the town. This leaves 4 players: Foolishness, Korynne, Qatol, citizen. We know that Qatol died. 1) I'm mafia: I'd kill Korynne. citizen has voted Qatol the past two days, it would make sense for me to capitalize on this and hope citizen would still want to kill Qatol. 2) Korynne is mafia. Korynne would want me alive because she knows I'm top candidate for lynch. Thus her choices are Qatol or citizen. Citizen may have a role as he hasn't claimed or not claimed anything. It would probably make more sense to hit Qatol in case citizen turned out to be a veteran or a bulletproof or something. Plus, hitting Qatol makes me look more guilty as it would seem I'm trying to kill the person who suspects me most. Hitting citizen would produce the same result (Qatol would try to kill me) but the added risk that he's some role makes Qatol safer. 3) citizen is mafia. Citizen would kill Korynne. Citizen knows that Qatol is about to come out with some analysis against me, and based on Qatol's numbers, I would be the only one left to lynch that makes sense. It seems to me that Qatol's death would only follow from Korynne being mafia. ##Vote Korynne. If I was mafia, I'd have no reason to hit Qatol as I'd want to play off of citizen's suspicion that Qatol is mafia. Me killing Qatol is basically asking for myself to get lynched. I'm a townsperson. citizen, I want you to take a look at the broader perspective of Korynne and I trying to get each other lynch. Starting days ago, I provided reasons why I think Korynne is mafia stemming from her behavior as the game went on. I stand by what I said in that I think Korynne is mafia, and I have thought that since those posts were created. Korynne, while doing a good job in defending herself, has yet to actually say anything incriminating about me. Think of it this way, if Korynne really was innocent, as soon as day started, she would think, "okay, Qatol had some analysis sealing the deal on Foolishness. Let me try to reproduce that". Yes, she isn't Qatol, nor maybe she hasn't considered any of this, but the fact is there's very little analysis about myself being mafia. You've seen her posts as soon as day starts. Don't you think that her attitude seems like, "let's hurry up and lynch foolishness" instead of trying to find reasons to back her claim? It seems very odd to me. I brought up possible arguments that you are mafia because I want to make sure I'm voting for the right person. As I said before, I laid out reasons why you could be mafia, but then ruled you out as a possibility. Korynne has not done any of this, and instead is just "going with the plan" so to say. Why do you think all her posts have been 9 lines or less this day so far? I recall her making much longer posts when I was calling her out earlier in the game. | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 11 2010 03:14 Korynne wrote: Like I said, if me not voting for Foolishness immediately after citi.zen votes for him doesn't clear me as townie, I don't know what would other than lynching me. -.- On May 10 2010 22:40 Korynne wrote: Well I'm confirmed green since I didn't vote for Foolishness. So Foolishness, do you have any argument for citizen or should I hammer you now? On May 10 2010 20:45 Korynne wrote: Well I know I'm not mafia. =\ On May 10 2010 10:32 Korynne wrote: I honestly don't know what to do at this point. I know I'm not mafia, and I don't sense like you're all /that/ mafia... and like Foolishness I've been suspicious of all game... citi.zen or Qatol will probably be killed tonight... bleh, guess we'll find out how things go... Notice the constant "I know I'm green...", "I know I'm innocent..." talk. While most of these posts occurred recently, this has been recurring throughout the game. I think you have been around long enough to know that is usually a mafia sign. If not, I can point you to a game where L was saying the exact same things when he was mafia. On May 11 2010 04:28 Korynne wrote: Looks like I get to be the confirmed townie that gets to decide if we win or lose this game, woo. >_> Are you not bothered by this the way I am? There's hardly a defense of her innocence, and there wasn't even one when we decided to vigi Falcynn instead of Korynne. She is not defending herself because she probably doesn't want to screw up, which is why she has a hasty attitude (I mentioned this earlier). I'm trying to explain to you that this is exactly what I was pointing out days ago. She is continually pointing the decision to her, and that she could have majority lynched me if she wanted to a few hours ago (even though this is not how it works). | ||
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 07 2010 10:57 Ace wrote: Day 3 vote count - With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch! DarthTheinAn(7) Radfield Qatol Korynne JeeJee citizen Foolishness ~Opz~ Korynne(2) [NyC]HoBbes DarthTheinAn DarthTheinAn will be lynched at 12:23 AM ET/ 13:23 KST (~3 hours from now). Any roles that can act between now and then may do so. By the way, I voted for Darth at a time that would almost get him lynched (I actually think the vote count is wrong here because I distinctly remember casting my vote thinking that it would be majority). So now I as the mafia was responsible for 2 of my teammates' deaths (I could have just gone mia and not changed my vote easily). None of the mafia's actions are fluent with me being mafia. Remember that you saying I'm mafia means you think I gave up a scenario where the mafia nearly had an instant win. Nobody would give that up. | ||
Foolishness
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Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 07:37 Korynne wrote: citi.zen's the one who's all hasty and omg let's lynch foolishness. I am 90% sure the day "ends" when you reach majority vote. As in like, day might continue to 24 hours just so people don't get screwed up schedules and have to wake up at like 4am to play. I'm not defending myself because I was under the impression that once majority is reached then we lynch that person when the day is over. Ace can you clarify on this point? If I have the let's hurry up and lynch foolishness attitude I would've done it already given my impression of the game. I'm the one saying does Foolishness have anything to say etc. rather than what citi.zen is doing, which is well I'm voting for Foolishness and that's that. I agree with you that the person should have the ability to say something, which is why I said let's hear from Foolishness and I haven't voted yet. I was under the impression that everyone would want to kill citi.zen or Qatol, since they seemed most town. citi.zen already said don't lynch qatol. Qatol said he thinks Foolishness is the last mafia. So way to use old information to support your innocence... If I was mafia I would've killed citi.zen because he hasn't been saying much so he could be all over the place (not to mention Qatol said he thinks Foolishness is the last mafia). Just like how last game I killed hobbes instead of XeliN because even though XeliN jumps on me a lot, hobbes is quiet so I don't know what he's thinking. If citi.zen or Qatol was mafia they would just kill off the other one because you and me are a lot more suspicious than either of them. What I don't get, Foolishness, is that you've never actually came out and said you were compvig. Even after it was pretty much completely obvious. Also if we follow Qatol's number theory, [1][1] would be a rather reasonable thing to pick, a) in case everyone or most people picked duplicates, b) to remove vets like L or BM claiming 1,1 and then owning shit. Also, we clearly said foolishness pick roleblocker and let me take compvig. So you just arbitrarily stole that role from me, making you very scummy looking and you've just kind of avoided that whole conversation of why you decided to take compvig. You still picked 1,5 am I correct? The second number doesn't matter so much as the first according to the number theory. I think you are as just as much guilty as I am if we look just from a number perspective. That's why I haven't used that as an argument. I think it's foolish for both of you to expect me to blindly agree with your plan and pick roleblocker. While my instinct did say that Qatol was innocent, it was too early in the game to go following one's plan. What if both Qatol and you had been mafia and this was part of some scheme? What if Qatol was mafia and was doing it to make sure his mafia team got the roles they wanted? There were too many possibilities, I wasn't about to go following his plan. He even pointed out in a post that I get "paranoid" in mafia games and cited an example of a previous game where I lied about knowing a vigilante. BM even said in the thread he didn't want to take Inventor, and I'll honestly tell you I was highly considering taking it because I didn't think he would. And I repeated it again and again that announcing my role only benefits the mafia. And nobody argued that point with me. Perhaps half the town claiming green was the reason you were able to kill all the blue roles so fast. On May 11 2010 07:41 Korynne wrote: My entire oh look I'm confirmed green statement today is based on the fact that I thought (not sure correctly or incorrectly at this point) it just requires majority to lynch. So sure, if Ace says lynch only occurs at the end of the day whether majority is reached or not, then I take back the confirmed town statement. I don't understand why you're so eager on pushing for my lynch and don't look at citi.zen at all. Right now look at it from my perspective. citi.zen stated that he's definitely voting for you. So you should try to convince me to vote for citi.zen, and that's all I've been asking for you to do (as in present your point regarding citi.zen). This repeatedly attacking me thing doesn't get anywhere because it's not like I'm going to vote for myself over you... The only reason I haven't voted for you is to hear your case against citi.zen I did make a case for citizen. I'll give you that it wasn't the most thought out accusation, but I said why it could be the case that citizen is mafia, then I ruled it out based on the numbers. And all you had to say in regards to it was: On May 10 2010 20:45 Korynne wrote: But I really can't see how it's citi.zen. =\ That would be so lame... especially considering the fact that mafia would've had to go like 12 12. Why are you waiting for me to point something out? Why don't you try to make a case against him? You haven't even made a case against me; your entire reasoning for killing me is more or less "that was the plan from yesterday" and "Qatol thought you were mafia". I can remake my arguments against citizen without thinking too hard about it. I honestly think you're mafia, but if you are able to defend yourself and tell me why I should vote for citizen over you, then I will change. I am voting for you because mafia's night kills are fluent with what your goal would be. I outlined the scenario's above how it does not make much sense for citizen or I to kill Qatol. This is what I'm trying to say in my defense: that the mafia's actions are not what I would do, and that the mafia's actions reflect what Korynne would do. That's why I keep bringing up points like the modkill on Zona. I'll tell you right here why I was suspicious of citizen. If you can elaborate more I will gladly listen. I don't feel like I have much of a chance to prove my innocence but if I can at least figure out which one of you is mafia I'll feel better. I thought citizen had barely made a contribution for the first half of the game. Until Radfield died, I pegged him as the SK. Normally citizen is a very active town poster, and is not afraid to post his thoughts regarding who he thinks is mafia. I found his behavior this game contrary to what I normally see of him when he's town (flamewheel's mafia game sticks out in my mind). What also bothers me is that he has not claimed a role so far. With three of us left, the game is obviously going to end, it makes more sense for him to claim, because I'm under the impression he has something to hide. We agreed early game that some roles are better for the mafia than others. If he claimed a more town favored role, then that could help show his innocence (I do realize he could lie about this though). | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 09:38 citi.zen wrote: Korynne, there is no case he can make. He let me live because Qatol was about to vote for him anyway, as he states above. I was finally comfortable trusting Qatol, after going through 100x complicated scenarios where he was red. In the end it just didn't make sense to think his early game conversations with Zona and Darth were staged - they were too long and detailed. There was no reason for the mafia to go through that trouble and risk making mistakes - it never happens like that. So me + Qatol alive = Foolishness dead. He also knew in my first post, and a few times afterwards I picked on you, so he figured he'd have a good chance convincing me. I also think you are right about the day ending when it does - look at the dialog between me and Qatol before we lynched Scamp (I think) - I tried to change my vote but it was too late. I am not in a hurry to lynch Foolishness. Just make the right call in the end though. I certainly don't recall you picking on Korynne, although there's no way for you to know that. And it's not like you are vocal about your opinions this game. After you voted for Qatol twice don't you think I would have tried to convince you to kill Qatol if I was mafia? How could I figure I could convince you to kill Korynne? None of this adds up right. Ugh, I don't even know which one of you to vote for anymore. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 07:37 Korynne wrote: citi.zen's the one who's all hasty and omg let's lynch foolishness. And now I want to vote citizen for this reason. And because it doesn't look like he's trying at all when he's writing his posts. Now korynne is looking innocent. I'm pretty sure if I switch votes you will just use that against me though. I don't even know anymore. I know one of you is sitting there grinning evilly and the other is going to be like "...oh shit" after I get lynched. I'm at least going to feel better if I figure out which one of you two is mafia. citizen being mafia really does not make sense with the whole numbers. Although he hasn't claimed any role, and has talked about the roleblocker quite a lot. But nobody has claimed to be roleblocked. Arghh I'm like half angry because I don't know what else I can say here. >.< | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 10:10 Korynne wrote: You make a huge post on why you think I'm definitely mafia and then say, well... maybe citizen can be mafia. >_> I mean sure mafia could pick 1,5 but that's pretty lame since it pushes you farther down the line (haha I have no idea why any of the rest of us picked non-1s for the first digit xD, maybe I would've gotten compvig if I picked 1,1 xD). All mafia picked [1] so it seems reasonable for you to be [1][1]. You keep stating compvig is so easy to keep track of but then refuse to let me have it... It just all seems so inconsistent Foolishness... I think I have to agree with citi.zen, you're done. I just don't know anymore. You brought up points against citizen. I'm just trying to consider everything here. You make more sense to be mafia than citizen, but after pouring out reason after reason why I'm innocent I'm pretty much demoralized over here. I'm still keeping my vote on you. I still don't see what the second number has to do with this. Given that L and BM both claimed to pick 1,1 ahead of time, I think it makes sense to pick 1,5, since it will shoot you ahead if multiple people took 1,1. I said compvig was easy to keep track of after the roles went out, not before. I only half expected it to get it since BM said he didn't want Inventor. I'm just trying to figure everything out. One of you is mafia, and based on just today's posts, citizen looks much more guilty than you. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 10:30 citi.zen wrote: Nice try, but 1/1 makes perfect sense for one of the reds: it's a portfolio approach, where some people will be more aggressive and others less so. You don't care which as long as in the end you get SOME high picks. What does not make sense if for me and Zona to pick 12 as the first number. You both know this. Look, I can't blame you for trying Foolishness. You might as well. But I honestly don't see how this desperate flopping can help. A+ for effort though. I don't see how it's much different from picking 1,1. Either way you're going to be up high. And you and Zona both picking 12 is very unlikely, that's why I originally said you were not mafia. I'm leaving my vote on Korynne. Although imagining what your face is going to be like when I turn up innocent makes me smile. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 10:35 Korynne wrote: Actually no, if people pick [1][1], [1][1], [1][5] they all go to the back of the line. And the [1][5] is behind the [1][1]s. I feel like you keep bringing up points that are wrong in hopes that I don't know they are wrong... Well this is all very frustrating... if citi.zen turns out mafia I will be very pissed. >_> But like Foolishness first you accuse me like crazy, and then now it's like when you realize it doesn't work to convince citi.zen, you're going to attack me instead. And you're playing the like, frustrated townie role... =\ Actually you have it wrong, I asked Ace on the first or second page go look. In that scenario, the 1,5 goes first, then the 1,1's after. How would me bringing up points that are wrong possibly help me here? I guess I am in a desperate situation here, but I'm not one to fabricate information in the hopes of tricking someone. Yeah, I feel for you too. I'm only desperate because I feel like I've proven my innocence, but I clearly haven't, and I don't know what else I can say. I'm still saying you are mafia because the numbers thing doesn't make sense with citizen. But I'll give you that your attitude is much more towny than citizens. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 10:38 citi.zen wrote: Rigt: 1/5 does not make sense. The reds knew this and all picked x/1s. Both Zona and Foolishness are pretty awesome at this game. In fact, were it not for Zona's mod-kill, they would have most likely won. On April 24 2010 07:21 Ace wrote: oh you mean like: [3][4] [3][4] [3][7] ? In this case the players that picked [3][4] end up picking after the player that picked [3][7]. And you guys think I don't know what I'm talking about... | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 10:50 citi.zen wrote: Nice ambivalent statement to saw more doubt about me in Korynne's mind about me: I don't think he's red, but he's acting pretty red! Duh. Look, it's obvious Foolishness would vote for either me or Korynne if one of us switched. He doesn't care which one, he just needs one of us to budge. I can tell you I will not. You should have killed me last night. I already told you if I was mafia I would have killed Korynne last night. And no I'm not going to change my vote, I'm just considering all options. Even if Korynne changes I will not, I'm keeping my vote on who I think is mafia. If you all think I'm still mafia after my defense, I can respect that. I already said I'm not changing my vote to citizen unless Korynne can convince me. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 12:16 Ace wrote: GJ to Foolishness for playing perfect until the last night (why shoot Falcynn v_v?). DathTheinan also played decently for the position he was put in. haha that actually means a lot coming from you. The town voted to shoot Falcynn, so if Falcynn didn't turn up dead I'd obviously be mafia. On May 11 2010 12:16 Ace wrote: DathTheinan also played decently for the position he was put in. This. I hope to see you in future games. On May 11 2010 12:33 Ace wrote: This is a surefire town loss. Town should NEVER reveal what they are picking. You can't tie alignments to picks, and you out all your power roles. SK wants to pop all investigation roles so on Nights 1 and 2 you'll see lots of dead Investigation roles. Couldn't agree more. That's why I tried to emphasize this during the game. On May 11 2010 12:45 Ace wrote: Yea Foolishness I have a question...why didn't you vote for citizen? Soon as he voted for you and Korynne DIDN'T vote but posted you should have tried to sympathize. She said "this obviously makes me innocent because I could hammer and end the game now". If you took that point seriously and voted on citizen you might have had a shot. I honestly thought that convincing citizen to kill Korynne was my only way to go. Given that I had been pressing to kill Korynne for half the game, I didn't think I could get away with trying to convince her to kill citizen. Also, the number argument worked too well to prove his innocence. With Korynne alive that argument meant nothing since we both picked 1 as our first number. As a whole I figured I was dead no matter what, I thought this was my best chance. As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. On May 11 2010 13:00 flamewheel91 wrote: No worries, I use cute to describe everybody (see my signature). I'm not being sexist here I can vouch for that. I have PM's to prove it too. Overall I thought we as the mafia had a nice advantage at the start. When it was revealed that we all got the roles we wanted, I suspected that many people did not have roles and were green. I had suspected Hobbes was methman based on JeeJee's talk about it; Zona thought he was Tracker, good thing we didn't hit him On the other side, I was secretly hoping that nearly everyone would have gotten a role, which would have been a chaotic hell and amazingly hilarious at the same time. I thought the Mason role was interesting as Ace mentioned, however I think a lot of the "good" that can come out of the Mason depends on who is using it. I would have definitely liked to be Mason for a game. I was very surprised that no rolecheck roles were taken, including the Jack. I thought that Radfield was the SK after the hit didn't go through and he said he was saved by a medic (as I pointed out in the thread). Even if he wasn't, he was playing incredibly pro town and was the only confirmed innocent at that point, which is why we had Darth kill him. | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 13:49 Qatol wrote: I seriously considered taking this role before I decided to control the copycat role. Private communication is VERY strong/important in these kinds of games. Oh and thanks Ace and Versatile for hosting this game. I would have considered taking it if I wasn't so high on the draft list as well. And yes, thanks for hosting Ace and Versatile! | ||
Foolishness
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I'll also say that playing red is incredibly stressful when you've been mafia 4 of the past 5 games @.@ | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote: Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. I recall you saying about a month ago that you were planning on hosting a TL mafia game after you were done with finals. Surely Qatol is not a man to go back on his word eh? | ||
Foolishness
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On May 11 2010 14:01 Ace wrote: @Foolishness: I had this weird argument in my head that town could have been screwed by. Something about "why isn't Foolisness dead yet if he's an innocent CV?" Which means one of the Scum isn't scared to get shot by accident, which means there's a Scum Bulletproof which means Falcynn/Korynne/Qatol/Citizen is lying about having no role. That's interesting. I was planning to play the "somebody is lying about their role" card if I was alive in the late game, but the opportunity never came up. I tried to set up for it by hinting that I may not be the CompVig and stuff early on, hoping for an opportunity where I could claim to be a Jack or a cop or something. Never saw a chance to use it though (or at least a chance where the town wouldn't just kill me first). | ||
Foolishness
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On May 12 2010 01:28 flamewheel91 wrote: Yeah Foolishness needs more town! Except for you get killed night 1 in XXII That's okay cause I was a hatter, and I found a mafia On May 11 2010 19:28 Radfield wrote: Great game everyone, the last few days/nights were really fun to watch. Must say I was rooting for town though My plan this game was to focus hard on hunting mafia. I really felt the only way I could lose was if the mafia beat me to it, so if I could eliminate the mafia I could cruise to victory. And if the mafia wasted a few shots on me, that just gives me more time to find them. If I got down to the last 5 or 6 people I felt I could win. There were better arguments for other players as SK, and eventually I could power the Floridian vote to win. As far as the medic claim, I really just had other things on my mind, and didn't really think it through. Qatol had said for whoever got hit to claim, so I claimed and went on with my post(I think I made 3 big posts at that time). And Foolishness, you really jumped on my radar with all of your doubting I got medic saved. I couldn't figure out why you would doubt so strongly my claim of getting saved. You happened to be right that I was the SK, but for all the wrong reasons. Thanks for hosting Ace, this was a great set-up. Hopefully you'll host another one of these soon. Good game to everyone I explained my reasoning in the thread, I thought it incredibly odd that you would claimed to be saved by a medic when you would have no idea there was one. Which meant you really wanted the town to think you were innocent, and you had something to hide. It only followed logically that you were the SK, since I knew you weren't mafia =P | ||
Foolishness
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On May 12 2010 08:09 Ace wrote: He did get saved by a medic though ^_^ Doh | ||
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