Pick Your Power Mafia!

In the event players picked the same 2 numbers I will dice role to see who goes first.

On April 24 2010 07:21 Ace wrote:
oh you mean like:

[3][4]
[3][4]
[3][7]

?

In this case the players that picked [3][4] end up picking after the player that picked [3][7].

Is this what you mean?

On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote:
Okay, fun time. I've been doing some thinking about the game setup and have some thoughts for the town going forward:

---

The first major item of note is this:
+ Show Spoiler [Vanilla Scum] +
This tells us 2 things:
1. The mafia only have 1 KP in a game with 19 players. They also only have 4 members. Why is this important? With all the rolecheck abilities out there, the mafia are unlikely to stand much of a chance unless they get some very powerful roles.

2. The mafia team knew who each other were during the draft phase and were allowed to communicate with each other during said phase. Assuming they talked to each other at all, they did not overlap with each other.

These 2 points lead us to a pretty simple conclusion:
The mafia made sure they have very low numbers and their numbers were probably consecutive in order to guarantee that they would wind up with powerful role choices. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like:
[3] [1]
[4] [1]
[5] [1]
[6] [1]
in order to avoid overlapping with the town as much as possible while still keeping near the top. I think it is unlikely that they bid a [1] [1] or even a [2] [1] just because they were worried the town would also bid those numbers. Bill Murray already claimed he bid [1] [1]. I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually the case. I think L probably bid [2] [1] hoping that people would stack on 1. The people I'm looking at right now are these people in particular:
3. Foolishness
4. Korynne
5. Falcynn
I strongly believe that 1 or 2 of them are mafia. They are also likely to go for the roles the mafia will rely upon for the game. Remember that aside from the Copy Cat (which would be a risky role for the mafia to take), if the mafia want a role that gives them additional KP, they are likely to take it with these picks. I'm specifically thinking that the mafia here will be targeting Jack of All Trades, Day Vigilante, and Vengeful Player. Keep these 3 players in mind for later.

---

I also propose that people announce something: whether or not you moved down and what you bid. Why would you do that and why would it matter? Because it gives us an idea of what range people bid in. Remember, we want to piece together who bid what because the mafia did not stack numbers on top of each other. I realize that the mafia can lie about this, but it really doesn't matter. If they lie about their bidding numbers, then the town has an opportunity to catch them in a lie based on who else bid that number. If someone moved down, they are placed in a group with the people around them. When you find a mafia in that group, it increases the level of trust with the people around you.

With this in mind, I would like to announce that I moved down. I bid [6] [1] thinking that the mafia might try for consecutive numbers starting between 2 and 4. That would mean that they would end between 6 and 8. I'm almost positive I overlapped with one of the mafia. This means that we should also be looking very hard at:
10. sidesprang
12. JeeJee

I confirmed with Ace that this situation:
A - [3] [1]
B - [3] [1]
C - [5] [1]
D - [5] [2]
will result in:
A and B are ordered randomly, C, D. The second tie does not move you down a second time.
This means that anyone who moved down yet is still above me bid at least a 6. Everyone below me moved down AND bid at most a 6. If you bid between 3 and 5 and moved down, it is especially important that you speak up.

---

Why am I coming forward with this information right now and not after roles are selected? Because I want the town to deny the mafia the most powerful roles or at the very least control their use. We can't stop the mafia from taking roles to increase their KP, but we can still control who gets what role and try to keep the mafia away from the 3 most important ones: Inventor, Compulsive Vigilante, and Role Blocker. Why are these roles especially important? The first 2 provide the mafia with kill power EVERY NIGHT. The third one allows the mafia flexibility to get around this plan. Therefore, I want Bill Murray to take Inventor and L's replacement to take Compulsive Vigilante. Foolishness will take Roleblocker.

Bill Murray, you will be making meth bombs (if Ace allows it) or at least bulletproof vests for people every night. The day post will confirm that you followed these directions. This way you cannot give the mafia additional kill power.

L's replacement, the town will be directing your shots. We will vote during the day on your hit.

Foolishness, you will not be roleblocking anyone. If anyone claims to be roleblocked, we will immediately lynch you. Roleblocks are much stronger for the mafia than they are for the town. I would just as soon nobody get them.

---

tl;dr:
Look hard at these 5:
3. Foolishness
4. Korynne
5. Falcynn
10. sidesprang
12. JeeJee

Claim your numbers. Revealing this information does not hurt the town but does hurt the mafia.

Bill Murray, L's replacement, Foolishness: you have additional instructions. Read them.

On May 02 2010 04:25 Qatol wrote:
Lots of stuff to comment about:

Thanks for the vote of confidence. You had better pick roleblocker.

Is there a good argument why we shouldn't? I haven't seen one so far.

On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote:

tl;dr:
Look hard at these 5:
3. Foolishness
4. Korynne
5. Falcynn
10. sidesprang
12. JeeJee

On May 03 2010 06:36 d3_crescentia wrote:
Why shouldn't we make Bill and Foolishness claim? Should one of them be the CompVig, we lynch him and put that power into Qatol's hands. Our Medic protect can then go on the remaining guy. The Tracker can then follow Qatol on Night 2 and report if he saw two visits from Qatol. I suppose the Mafia can always refuse to use their NK if Qatol's gunning for them.

On May 03 2010 08:25 Korynne wrote:
Inventor and Compulsive Vigilante are NOT easy to keep track of. As in, if Foolishness and BM are not said roles but are instead mafia, they can easily pass the roles to someone else and that person will carry out the roles (as town directs them to). We definitely must check them for alignment.

Now looking at it this way, it feels like Qatol's plan was a terrible idea. Dx

On May 03 2010 15:04 Bill Murray wrote:
i am inventing a newspaper for clues to be in the day post

On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote:
I have a slightly different stance: Do not claim unless you have something to contribute. My claim told us that the copycat is likely in mafia hands (or at least a townie working against the town). Korynne's claim was important too because it told us that someone in the first 2 players is playing against the town. Just giving us your role isn't important or useful. You need to be able to give the town important information by roleclaiming.

On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote:
Your plan for voting on CompVig kills is solid, except I think we should be doing it during the night. Often the lynch gives information. I'd rather make that kill when I'm as informed as possible. As you said earlier, Korynne probably tried to take CompVig. It was the role we assigned to her. I would be very surprised if she tried to take anything else. This means that CompVig is somewhere in the first 2 roles. I'm more worried that Inventor slipped.

On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote:
On May 04 2010 05:38 Bill Murray wrote:
Well, I have just been informed I would have to only give my newspaper to one person. I had considered this, and as a result I will be inventing someone else like a gun to give someone. I am not 100% sure what it will be yet.

Okay, Bill has just confirmed that he has taken inventor.

On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote:
2 things of note:
1. The invention of a cell phone. This does NOT confirm Bill Murray's innocence yet. There is still a mafia use for a cell phone. Cell phones are frequently used to detonate bombs. If we start seeing bombs given out, then the inventor (probably not Bill) is mafia. Otherwise, the inventor (Bill) is innocent.

On May 05 2010 06:36 Qatol wrote:
How about we day vigi Sidesprang and then look at lynching Foolishness?

On May 05 2010 06:54 Qatol wrote:
Oh another thing I want to know: was anyone roleblocked last night? We need to know if there is a roleblocker out there.

On May 05 2010 06:00 Scamp wrote:
Falcynn seems scummiest to me.


The compusive vig is interesting because people really want to see what happens with it, but why I can't say. If the mafia has CV as well as day vig that's a lot of KP that's going to be pointed our way. I also don't really see how the CV is that beneficial to the town. Sure, it's like a double lynch, but this isn't a big game and the mafia KP is very small. Why is it good to double-lynch all the time? Better than having it in mafia hands, I guess, but I don't see it as that good a thing.

I do like having a CV-directing discussion because there's also a serial killer out there as well. The thing about the serial killer is that he wants to help town until the very end. Perhaps he'll start targeting townies if we get a few mafia really early, but that's the only reason why he'd try and kill town (unless the tracker is discovered). He'll lose if the mafia win, so he needs to kill mafia, and he needs to kill them first.

On May 05 2010 06:00 Scamp wrote:
I don't see how killing Sidesprang gives any great information. If he flips green then someone in the top ten is lying? Yeah, I could have told you that without lynching him, since I can tell you that right now. Multiple people in the top ten are lying, all the vanilla claims should have made that obvious.

While looking at the numbers is interesting and all, talking about mafia taking the same numbers and the like is silly. It's especially silly as a defense. People could, y'know, be lying about their numbers.


All that being said, Sidesprang still does look suspicious, and it'd be nice if he posted.

On May 05 2010 06:00 Scamp wrote:
Bill never explained what that phone was supposed to do, did he?

On May 05 2010 08:59 Korynne wrote:
Also flamewheel it's okay, apparently everyone on the internet is assumed male unless proven. xP

But seriously Foolishness if you are town, you should claim either compvig or not compvig. If I was mafia and I was lying, then I would already know you are not compvig. If I was mafia and telling the truth, and BM is mafia with me, then I would already know if you are compvig. If I was mafia and BM is town, then I doubt BM has the coordination to pull off another townie pretending to be inventor instead of him. If I was town, and mafia knows I'm town, then they know that I'm probably telling the truth, and they will know you and BM's role.

So telling us whether you are compvig or not compvig only benefits town.

So basically, if you claim compvig, everything's okay for now other than wtf why did you steal my role. If you claim not compvig then you and BM are under heavy scrutiny (or at least will be when I am revealed town).

On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote:
Yay another person trying to "subtly" poke holes in my credibility. Having fun over there with your buddy ~OpZ~?

On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote:
Except you have something to contribute. If you took anything other than CompVig, you should have already roleclaimed because then we have a confirmed mafia in the first 3 players.

On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote:
Really? You think Bill would lie about taking the inventor role? Here's the thing: If he's innocent, it doesn't help the town for him to lie about his role. It just makes us lynch people around him whether or not we actually have solid reads on them. I would hope that he is smart enough to see that.

On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote:
Actually, that is wrong. Either you are town and legitimately got roleblocked (telling us there is a mafia roleblocker out there) or you are mafia and did not get roleblocked (telling us that there is no mafia roleblocker out there). I'd like to be able to figure out which of these cases is the truth.

On May 05 2010 10:08 Korynne wrote:
Or actually, correction, stop trying to lynch me because you think I am mafia.

It is perfectly legit to lynch me to confirm what I say about Bill/Foolishness.

On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote:

Maybe I want credibility because I'm sick and tired of being ignored? (notice how early I tried to focus on a lynch on day 1 yet we still managed to have a no lynch? People didn't even really argue about it? They just focused on the roles and didn't even worry about the lynch.) (additionally, notice that nobody other than opz has even mentioned that analysis of johnnyspazz - how is the guy this slippery when he isn't even posting?) Anyways, I'm done with this. Just don't stop reading my posts. If you disagree with the logic in them, point it out like Zona did earlier. Dismissing them out of hand or saying that I am expecting you to just follow them does not help anyone. If you aren't persuaded, tell me why.

Please clarify your point about why you would want to lie about your numbers if you're innocent.

On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote:

I'll reserve my judgment on this until I see the first CompVig hit. But if they aren't following the town, you NEED to speak up.

And I think that it is impossible that nobody picked the inventor because we saw a cell phone made. After Bill said that he was trying to make a town circle and something about being able to PM on day 4. After Bill was talking about making a town circle. It sure seems to me like he has the role or is working with the person that has it.
And yes, if I were the one with the inventor role, I would roleclaim. Why? because it means we have found someone actively working against the town (Bill).

On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote:


All I want to know is whether we have a roleblocker out there working against us. Personally, I'd like to know what the mafia can do. Maybe it won't matter, maybe we wind up in a situation where we should have a DT roleclaim while we drop our medic on them. I'd like to know if that is an option.

On May 05 2010 11:33 johnnyspazz wrote:
##Vote Sidesprang##
after reading through everything, i agree that sidesprang would be a good lynch target

why aren't people using the compvig vote idea that was brought up earlier in the game?

On May 05 2010 12:01 johnnyspazz wrote:

funny you should say this because i didn't even play in flamewheel's game

On May 05 2010 12:02 Qatol wrote:

The reason I'm taking this attitude is because I want people to think for themselves and realize that what I'm saying makes logical sense. The only true leap of faith I've asked of anyone so far was that I tried to take and didn't get copycat. I realize that this one is a leap of faith which I'm hoping my behavior will speak for. Other than that, I am hoping that my posts make sense from a logical point of view. Have I said anything else which you think requires a leap of faith? It means that the logic hasn't come through entirely, and that should be rectified.

On May 06 2010 06:24 DarthThienAn wrote:


It makes sense for the medic to protect him - mafia still have a hit. But not multiple medics - the only reason why he would need more than one is if he's worried that, if Foolishness if mafia, they'll try to do a trade? Which doesn't sound unreasonable since the Inventor is such a powerful role. But I kinda feel like this would be a bad trade for us - considering the number of vanilla claims that have gone through, I feel like the town is short on roles, so having the Inventor is really important imo.

On May 06 2010 10:07 Scamp wrote:
Bill Murray seems to be doing everything he can to get me killed.

On May 06 2010 08:15 Radfield wrote:


Bill, to avoid getting lynched you need to prove to everyone, not just Qatol, that you are pro-town. You have a very, very powerful ability, that is very deadly to the town if it's in mafia hands. Unfortunately for you, the person you passed out the phone to died the same night. This sucks for you, because it's suspicious by it's very nature. This is why tonight, you need to make an invention that is very obviously pro-town, so we can all go "phew" looks like Bill is very unlikely to be mafia.

If you invent something obscure again, against the direct wishes of the town, what other option are you leaving us? Look at it from our point of view, we HAVE to be sure the inventor is on our side. The only way to be sure is if the inventor is following instructions from the towns collective judgement.

How else can we be sure?

On May 06 2010 11:35 johnnyspazz wrote:
so if i turn green, how likely is jeejee red?

On May 06 2010 14:01 Qatol wrote:
Hmm the Night post has a few interesting points. Only 2 deaths: johnnyspazz and Bill Murray. Did we have a hit blocked? Or did the mafia and the SK happen to hit the same target? If anyone else has more information about the night (like if you took a hit), please come forward.

On May 06 2010 15:20 Amnesia wrote:
oh shit..

Okay so can anyone cliffnotes me the important stuff? Final exams here and I am super busy.

On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:

What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost.


That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important.


No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner.


Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves.
Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true.

I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea?

On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote:

Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me.

On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it.

On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote:

Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection.
Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why?

On May 07 2010 06:32 Qatol wrote:

So you think the mafia picked 1? Darth was just mentioning that he did not think that was the case because of L/Bill Murray both claiming to have taken [1][1]. Do you disagree? Why?

On May 07 2010 07:08 Korynne wrote:
Hobbes:

Most notably claims he has a fun, fun role (Which JeeJee somewhat confirmed)
Agrees that inventor and compvig should be monitored by town
Sad about noone voting day 1, votes for johnnyspazz due to different play than previous game
Says that anyone taking copycat and town aligned would be stupid and no help, so agrees with lynching sidesprang
Makes a shifty compvig+weakdoctor plan that didn't work
Is now away catching up on sleep.

Conclusion: Really inactive, basically bandwagony, nothing exciting really. He didn't post much in the other game he was townie either.

Verdict: Not very suspicious. Would like it if Hobbes contributed more though.

On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).

Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia.

On May 07 2010 08:03 Korynne wrote:


There wasn't much information on Hobbes... you go do one on Hobbes and tell me what insightful information you find. >_>

Oh right, let's quote the smaller of the analyses I do...

I was not responding to your post, I was responding to Radfield being like you inactive and who you think is mafia. And me being like k imma post analysis later.

On May 07 2010 08:03 Korynne wrote:


I'm assuming this is the post you want me to reply to (if not redirect me to the post you want me to reply to).

"pretty standard mafia move"s are pretty terrible moves for mafia to make since that would make them seem mafia no? My last game I was active the whole way through. First game I kinda dropped off at the end as well cuz it was like blargh...we don't really have anything to go on. I felt the same here, it was like omg planz cool cool and then like, oh shit, plans didn't work out so well... and not really sure where to proceed.

It's not so much a fine just kill me attitude as like a, well you can kill me if you need to, to prove that BM/Foolishness is mafia when it comes to that. Because I feel like we don't have a whole lot of checks to throw around so if there was a situation where if I was telling the truth then we are pretty sure about who of them is mafia, then killing me (vanilla townie) then them (power role mafia) seems like a good idea since it's like, 1 for 1, and I'm vanilla and killing me first would be like making sure me as a mafia doesn't lead you to killing a town aligned power role.

On May 07 2010 08:07 Radfield wrote:

Also, if we don't get a mafia tonight, we are basically forced to lynch Foolishness tomorrow in an effort to buy time. We don't need to discuss this yet, but lets keep it in mind.

On May 07 2010 08:26 Qatol wrote:
Look, Foolishness, Hobbes, and citi.zen. The lynch on Darth just gives us more information than a lynch on Korynne does. We need to just put SOMETHING together. I honestly think that Scamp is more suspicious, but I agree with Radfield that there is something to gain from this lynch. Please change your votes. We can't afford another no lynch.

On May 07 2010 09:08 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Hey hey hey....I've only read from my last post page (prior to the one before) but I notice Foolishness is insanely good at ignoring things directed at him, and good at quoting the same poster later and using him to attack someone, (he did with bm). I've quoted several posts, but I want to get to the last page before so I can consolidate it (I still remember being banned by plexa)

On May 07 2010 10:26 ~OpZ~ wrote:

And also smart ass, MY INPUT was INTENTLY focused on my Civ and Lit/Humanities essays. I'm sorry mafia hasn't been my prime concern, I know it isn't yours, because I'd wager you have under 12 posts more than me since I've started posting again today.

I personally am all for having you killed. You're going to do nothing but wind up hurting the town, and I think it's already obvious you'll have to die for the greater good eventually.

On May 08 2010 04:21 Qatol wrote:

But that's exactly what I'm wondering about. What if he really WAS medic protected? Medic protection generally supercedes all other kinds except martyr, and if I were medic, he is the player I would have watched that night.

As far as the "took a hit" claim goes - yes, that is almost always the right call in this situation.

On May 08 2010 05:39 Qatol wrote:
I don't think you should be hitting Korynne. While she has been quiet, a mafia also just pushed pretty hard to get her lynched. That doesn't necessarily mean she is innocent (the mafia could be using this as a way to keep her out of the spotlight), but I think she just merits more watching right now. We can lynch her if her activity level doesn't increase.
I think you should be hitting either Scamp or Zona (with my preference on Zona unless he speaks up).
JeeJee voted Scamp. Several times.
Citi.zen voted me.
Scamp voted Hobbes.
Does anyone else have a second choice?
If I missed a vote, it wasn't in the last 4ish pages or it wasn't bolded. So anyone feel free to correct me.

On May 08 2010 11:46 Scamp wrote:
What the hell? No one is here?

Compvigging me is a MAJOR mistake with a capital M.

Throwing that out there last-second.

On May 08 2010 16:02 Korynne wrote:
Ok, so. We have:
Falcynn
citi.zen
Korynne
Foolishness
~Opz~
Qatol

2 mafia, 4 townies.

Lynch a townie:
We dead, unless we compvig a mafia.
Lynch a mafia:
We all good for tomorrow.

So again, we probably shouldn't kill Foolishness unless we're like 90% sure he's mafia because without compvig we're dead overnight if we screw it up.

On May 08 2010 16:49 Korynne wrote:
No I don't feel you.

I just explained why it doesn't make a difference if we keep him alive.

On May 08 2010 17:06 Korynne wrote:
How will it end sooner...
We have 2 days either way...and 3 tries instead of 2 tries to hit mafia if we keep you around (and mafia kills you tonight).

So right now my choices for lynch would be: Qatol, Falcynn, or OpZ.

On May 08 2010 17:27 Korynne wrote:
Foolishness who do you think is mafia?

On May 08 2010 17:37 Qatol wrote:

I'd like to point out that I was the one pushing for the CompVig hit on Zona. I realize it probably gets me nowhere in anyone's eyes, but it is still a fact.
With Zona flipping scum, as Korynne mentioned, citi.zen is cleared through the numbers. (I think the mafia would have to be insane to double up on 12 with the original setup.)


Does it? How?
Let's assume you are innocent:
5 1 - lynch an innocent player other than you
4 1 - mafia miss, you miss
2 1 - lynch or lose

5 1 - lynch you
4 1 - mafia miss
3 1 - this is still lynch or lose. If the town mislynches here, we still lose.
This is because we would be at 2 1 with a mafia hit incoming. That takes us down to 1 1 and mafia win if their numbers equal our own.

Anyways, I have an analysis of you in the works. You have some questions I think you need to answer.

On May 08 2010 18:06 Qatol wrote:


Actually, there is a mistake in your analysis.
Here is what you said:
5 1 - mislynch
4 1 - mafia kill an innocent
3 1 - mislynch
2 1 - lynch ends the game? I see a missing night hit.

Town still only gets 2 lynches no matter who we lynch.

If you think my biggest strength was ever behavioral analysis, you seriously need to reread mafia 4. However, I still found Zona, didn't I?

Why have I been making those arguments on numbers? Well have they been wrong yet? Actually, they have been 100% correct so far. I said that the mafia likely didn't pick two of the same number. So far we have seen a [6][1], [8][1], and [12][1]. I said that after we found sidesprang and darth were mafia, JeeJee was cleared. Notice how he was pretty much instantly hit.


Pushing for Zona to be modkilled doesn't exactly get you anywhere. How would you look if you had been fighting against him getting modkilled? Especially if you had only been fighting against HIM and not Hobbes too? I don't think that really gets you anything either way. And a pardoner mafia buddy still can't pardon if he isn't around to do so. My analysis wasn't going to mention this at all, but thanks for highlighting that it does nothing for or against you.

But don't you worry. I have a real analysis coming on you.

On May 08 2010 18:25 Korynne wrote:
Uh Foolishness. There's 6 of us left. So after we lynch you we're left with 1 mafia and 4 townspeople.

Is this your slipup as mafia? xD As in, oh hey, if I die there's 5 townies left. xP

On May 08 2010 18:27 Korynne wrote:
So FoS is on you Foolishness. xD But I still say we lynch someone today, compvig someone tonight, and then kill Foolishness tomorrow. So at least we would have all 3 attempts at lynching someone.

On May 08 2010 18:37 Qatol wrote:
Okay good. You see it. And remember, I have an engineering degree. It isn't like I don't do math too. You know better than that......

On May 08 2010 19:03 Korynne wrote:
I'm okay with Foolishness shooting himself tonight... but like, I don't see how he would agree to it is my only concern with that plan. xP

If he does agree to shoot himself and is not mafia, then he should give his full analysis before killing himself. =P

On May 09 2010 05:19 Korynne wrote:
I guess if that's what it comes down to. =(

If Falcynn is mafia I'm blaming it all on you Qatol. xD
If Qatol turns out mafia then it's citi.zen's fault for clearing you. =P

With a good amount of you wanting me dead I don't suppose there's anything I can do about it. Foolishness has been wanting to get his hands on me for ages. xP

I guess I'm okay with this plan, I could always try to argue between me and Falcynn if/after OpZ turns out town.

So we all good with lynching OpZ then? (other than OpZ, of course. xD)

I'd like to hear if OpZ has a roleclaim before he is lynched.

On May 09 2010 04:47 Qatol wrote:

We decided that the final lynch or lose situation is slightly easier if we don't kill Foolishness now.
You are probably taking the mafia hit tonight (because of your numbers), so please pick all 3 hits you want to see done.
That leaves 4 players for our first 2 hits: Korynne, OpZ, Falcynn, and myself.
If you want to take me off the list too, that leaves Korynne, OpZ, and Falcynn. Please pick 2 of them. Then add Foolishness to the list and pick 1 more player.

Apparently Foolishness can't shoot himself. Unfortunate. That said, the two I would like to see take a hit are Korynne and OpZ. Sorry OpZ, I know we are using you a bit. However, do you see what kind of situation we are placed in? You, Korynne, and Falcynn will likely each push for the other 2 to die right now. That leaves the other 3 of us to figure out who to lynch/CompVig. I just don't see Falcynn being able to make the night hit on JeeJee. (I checked his posts and basically all of his posts in the last week have either been here or in a blog about his film. I think his activity levels are at least the same on TL as they are here.)
That leaves me with Korynne and OpZ. I'm okay with dealing with you two in either order. However, I'm thinking I want OpZ to go first because of Korynne's CompVig claim. Yes, I realize that OpZ claimed he also went for it and missed, but Korynne claimed first. I think it is more likely that she does not have a role. Meanwhile, with OpZ's newfound interest in the BP role, I think there is a possibility that he has said role. If we want to kill the two, we need to lynch him and shoot her. It can't be the other way around.
The only reason I can see for going after Falcynn is in the hopes that he has the Jack role.

So I guess I'm advocating this order: OpZ, Korynne, Foolishness.
Thoughts citi.zen? Foolishness?

On May 09 2010 06:17 Korynne wrote:
Regarding the Falcynn thing though, I'm pretty sure he's said that.
Falcynn's basically said:
I was away for my filming thing [insert a bit of advertising for it]
The other thing was that he did mention the whole well I'm trying to contribute people complained about that in previous games and I always agree with people etc etc. I can find that post for you if you don't find it Foolishness, but he does mention something like I'm trying to participate more kinda thing.

Why do you keep going back to the same thing Foolishness? So if I say OH MY GAWD I DONT WANNA DIE DONT KILL ME you'll be okay with not lynching me? I mean if you keep repeating that it's scummy then it's not like as a scum or a townie I would want to keep doing that if I wanted to get rid of your suspicions. But seriously I don't see the point here, it's like when XeliN was like omg you didn't claim town to me so you suspicious. But like, who cares, it's not like as a townie or as a mafia I would pick differently in my opinion. If I'm doing something so obviously scummy and I keep doing it then like, it's just me doing it... you can't really take anything out of it other than your first instinct of that's scummy, and nothing I can do now will change that.

Like I said, I'll wait 'til after OpZ is lynched to deal with defending myself and what nots. Let's get this first one over with. Everyone's pretty much like yeah okay Foolishness is going to be lynched tomorrow, it's not like you're jumping on defending yourself either. So should I assume you're mafia because you're doing what you said is scummy? >_>

On May 09 2010 09:21 citi.zen wrote:

Yup, after the lynching.

On May 10 2010 05:29 Korynne wrote:
If you absolutely hate me Foolishness you could always just compvig me since either way you're getting lynched tomorrow. =P

On May 10 2010 07:11 Korynne wrote:
Why would I feel good if I was mafia and instigated you to kill me...
And yes, if you killed me when Falcynn was mafia I would be like... oh shi- xD

On May 10 2010 10:32 Korynne wrote:
Psh, kill the self promoter! xD

I honestly don't know what to do at this point. I know I'm not mafia, and I don't sense like you're all /that/ mafia... and like Foolishness I've been suspicious of all game... citi.zen or Qatol will probably be killed tonight... bleh, guess we'll find out how things go...

On May 10 2010 11:18 Korynne wrote:
I don't think it's useful for mafia to kill you tonight.
If I'm mafia, killing you tonight = me citi.zen Qatol = me dead
If you're mafia, you obviously won't kill yourself xD
If Qatol's mafia, killing citi.zen = qatol, me, foolishness = either you or me die
If citizen is mafia, kill Qatol = citizen, me, foolishness = either you or me die
If Falcynn is mafia, then we win tonight.

So basically, if Qatol or citizen is mafia we've pretty much lost the game I would think... but that's kind of like a we got out-thinked or some shit.
It's basically between me and Foolishness tomorrow, and either citi.zen or Qatol will be dead tonight.

I mean if we no-lynch the first day, then mafia pretty much has to kill foolishness tonight to prevent us from getting a third kill tomorrow before we die.

So yeah...

On May 08 2010 12:07 Foolishness wrote:

I like just killing them both.

On May 10 2010 21:15 citi.zen wrote:
If you are red korynne you are incredibly awesome. I mean... from the post about the roleblocker to the choice of 5 as your second number when all reds thus far chose 1 - it would all have to be an amazingly deep game. And if I go there I can persuade myself of anything ( hello Qatol).

Foolishness on the other hand I can easily see as red. From the first post about qatol crying after he got outsmarted to the last two posts, leaving himself room to vote for me if korynne will - it's all pretty scummy.

I'll take the simple explanation for once.

On May 10 2010 22:40 Korynne wrote:
Well I'm confirmed green since I didn't vote for Foolishness. So Foolishness, do you have any argument for citizen or should I hammer you now?

On May 10 2010 20:45 Korynne wrote:
Well I know I'm not mafia. =\
I get kinda the same vibe from foolishness as I did from the other few people we lynched, as in like it feels like they're innocent.

But I really can't see how it's citi.zen. =\ That would be so lame... especially considering the fact that mafia would've had to go like 12 12.

Any last words Foolishness? D= (I mean if I was mafia you'd be dead by now, so like I think that makes me innocent? >.<)

On May 11 2010 03:14 Korynne wrote:
What do you mean this means nothing? Citi.zen voted for Foolishness, if I was mafia, I would vote for Foolishness and then win the game. What's there not to get here... so clearly I am now town and Foolishness should present his case against citi.zen, because clearly you're the main suspect here.

What do I think about it? Foolishness obviously is compvig, this was confirmed when BM said he is inventor. I was sitting around going well why would what bill said mean anything, and then realized that it has something to do with a roleblocker, hence I pointed that out in the ban thread since BM seems to keep saying his post doesn't tell town anything.

Like I said, if me not voting for Foolishness immediately after citi.zen votes for him doesn't clear me as townie, I don't know what would other than lynching me. -.-

On May 11 2010 04:28 Korynne wrote:
Well now that citi.zen is settled.

#1 Foolishness convince me why citizen looks more suspicious than you.
#2 We lynch Foolishness today.

Looks like I get to be the confirmed townie that gets to decide if we win or lose this game, woo. >_>

On May 11 2010 03:14 Korynne wrote:
Like I said, if me not voting for Foolishness immediately after citi.zen votes for him doesn't clear me as townie, I don't know what would other than lynching me. -.-

On May 10 2010 22:40 Korynne wrote:
Well I'm confirmed green since I didn't vote for Foolishness. So Foolishness, do you have any argument for citizen or should I hammer you now?

On May 10 2010 20:45 Korynne wrote:
Well I know I'm not mafia. =\

On May 10 2010 10:32 Korynne wrote:
I honestly don't know what to do at this point. I know I'm not mafia, and I don't sense like you're all /that/ mafia... and like Foolishness I've been suspicious of all game... citi.zen or Qatol will probably be killed tonight... bleh, guess we'll find out how things go...

On May 11 2010 04:28 Korynne wrote:
Looks like I get to be the confirmed townie that gets to decide if we win or lose this game, woo. >_>

On May 11 2010 07:37 Korynne wrote:
citi.zen's the one who's all hasty and omg let's lynch foolishness.

I am 90% sure the day "ends" when you reach majority vote. As in like, day might continue to 24 hours just so people don't get screwed up schedules and have to wake up at like 4am to play.

I'm not defending myself because I was under the impression that once majority is reached then we lynch that person when the day is over. Ace can you clarify on this point?

If I have the let's hurry up and lynch foolishness attitude I would've done it already given my impression of the game. I'm the one saying does Foolishness have anything to say etc. rather than what citi.zen is doing, which is well I'm voting for Foolishness and that's that.

I agree with you that the person should have the ability to say something, which is why I said let's hear from Foolishness and I haven't voted yet.

I was under the impression that everyone would want to kill citi.zen or Qatol, since they seemed most town.

citi.zen already said don't lynch qatol. Qatol said he thinks Foolishness is the last mafia. So way to use old information to support your innocence...

If I was mafia I would've killed citi.zen because he hasn't been saying much so he could be all over the place (not to mention Qatol said he thinks Foolishness is the last mafia). Just like how last game I killed hobbes instead of XeliN because even though XeliN jumps on me a lot, hobbes is quiet so I don't know what he's thinking. If citi.zen or Qatol was mafia they would just kill off the other one because you and me are a lot more suspicious than either of them.

What I don't get, Foolishness, is that you've never actually came out and said you were compvig. Even after it was pretty much completely obvious.

Also if we follow Qatol's number theory, [1][1] would be a rather reasonable thing to pick, a) in case everyone or most people picked duplicates, b) to remove vets like L or BM claiming 1,1 and then owning shit. Also, we clearly said foolishness pick roleblocker and let me take compvig. So you just arbitrarily stole that role from me, making you very scummy looking and you've just kind of avoided that whole conversation of why you decided to take compvig.

On May 11 2010 07:41 Korynne wrote:
My entire oh look I'm confirmed green statement today is based on the fact that I thought (not sure correctly or incorrectly at this point) it just requires majority to lynch. So sure, if Ace says lynch only occurs at the end of the day whether majority is reached or not, then I take back the confirmed town statement.

I don't understand why you're so eager on pushing for my lynch and don't look at citi.zen at all. Right now look at it from my perspective. citi.zen stated that he's definitely voting for you. So you should try to convince me to vote for citi.zen, and that's all I've been asking for you to do (as in present your point regarding citi.zen). This repeatedly attacking me thing doesn't get anywhere because it's not like I'm going to vote for myself over you...

The only reason I haven't voted for you is to hear your case against citi.zen

On May 10 2010 20:45 Korynne wrote:
But I really can't see how it's citi.zen. =\ That would be so lame... especially considering the fact that mafia would've had to go like 12 12.

On May 11 2010 09:38 citi.zen wrote:
Korynne, there is no case he can make.

He let me live because Qatol was about to vote for him anyway, as he states above. I was finally comfortable trusting Qatol, after going through 100x complicated scenarios where he was red. In the end it just didn't make sense to think his early game conversations with Zona and Darth were staged - they were too long and detailed. There was no reason for the mafia to go through that trouble and risk making mistakes - it never happens like that. So me + Qatol alive = Foolishness dead. He also knew in my first post, and a few times afterwards I picked on you, so he figured he'd have a good chance convincing me.

I also think you are right about the day ending when it does - look at the dialog between me and Qatol before we lynched Scamp (I think) - I tried to change my vote but it was too late.

I am not in a hurry to lynch Foolishness. Just make the right call in the end though.

On May 11 2010 07:37 Korynne wrote:
citi.zen's the one who's all hasty and omg let's lynch foolishness.

On May 11 2010 10:10 Korynne wrote:
You make a huge post on why you think I'm definitely mafia and then say, well... maybe citizen can be mafia. >_>

I mean sure mafia could pick 1,5 but that's pretty lame since it pushes you farther down the line (haha I have no idea why any of the rest of us picked non-1s for the first digit xD, maybe I would've gotten compvig if I picked 1,1 xD). All mafia picked [1] so it seems reasonable for you to be [1][1].

You keep stating compvig is so easy to keep track of but then refuse to let me have it...

It just all seems so inconsistent Foolishness... I think I have to agree with citi.zen, you're done.

On May 11 2010 10:30 citi.zen wrote:

Nice try, but 1/1 makes perfect sense for one of the reds: it's a portfolio approach, where some people will be more aggressive and others less so. You don't care which as long as in the end you get SOME high picks. What does not make sense if for me and Zona to pick 12 as the first number. You both know this.

Look, I can't blame you for trying Foolishness. You might as well. But I honestly don't see how this desperate flopping can help. A+ for effort though.

On May 11 2010 10:35 Korynne wrote:
Actually no, if people pick [1][1], [1][1], [1][5] they all go to the back of the line. And the [1][5] is behind the [1][1]s. I feel like you keep bringing up points that are wrong in hopes that I don't know they are wrong...

Well this is all very frustrating... if citi.zen turns out mafia I will be very pissed. >_>

But like Foolishness first you accuse me like crazy, and then now it's like when you realize it doesn't work to convince citi.zen, you're going to attack me instead. And you're playing the like, frustrated townie role... =\

On May 11 2010 10:38 citi.zen wrote:

Rigt: 1/5 does not make sense. The reds knew this and all picked x/1s. Both Zona and Foolishness are pretty awesome at this game. In fact, were it not for Zona's mod-kill, they would have most likely won.

On April 24 2010 07:21 Ace wrote:
oh you mean like:

[3][4]
[3][4]
[3][7]

?

In this case the players that picked [3][4] end up picking after the player that picked [3][7].

On May 11 2010 10:50 citi.zen wrote:

Nice ambivalent statement to saw more doubt about me in Korynne's mind about me: I don't think he's red, but he's acting pretty red! Duh.

Look, it's obvious Foolishness would vote for either me or Korynne if one of us switched. He doesn't care which one, he just needs one of us to budge. I can tell you I will not. You should have killed me last night.

On May 11 2010 12:16 Ace wrote:
GJ to Foolishness for playing perfect until the last night (why shoot Falcynn v_v?). DathTheinan also played decently for the position he was put in.

On May 11 2010 12:16 Ace wrote:
DathTheinan also played decently for the position he was put in.

On May 11 2010 12:33 Ace wrote:


This is a surefire town loss. Town should NEVER reveal what they are picking. You can't tie alignments to picks, and you out all your power roles. SK wants to pop all investigation roles so on Nights 1 and 2 you'll see lots of dead Investigation roles.

On May 11 2010 12:45 Ace wrote:
Yea Foolishness I have a question...why didn't you vote for citizen? Soon as he voted for you and Korynne DIDN'T vote but posted you should have tried to sympathize. She said "this obviously makes me innocent because I could hammer and end the game now". If you took that point seriously and voted on citizen you might have had a shot.

On May 11 2010 13:00 flamewheel91 wrote:
No worries, I use cute to describe everybody (see my signature). I'm not being sexist here

On May 11 2010 13:49 Qatol wrote:

I seriously considered taking this role before I decided to control the copycat role. Private communication is VERY strong/important in these kinds of games.

Oh and thanks Ace and Versatile for hosting this game.

On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well.

On May 11 2010 14:01 Ace wrote:
@Foolishness: I had this weird argument in my head that town could have been screwed by. Something about "why isn't Foolisness dead yet if he's an innocent CV?" Which means one of the Scum isn't scared to get shot by accident, which means there's a Scum Bulletproof which means Falcynn/Korynne/Qatol/Citizen is lying about having no role.

On May 12 2010 01:28 flamewheel91 wrote:

Yeah Foolishness needs more town!
Except for you get killed night 1 in XXII

On May 11 2010 19:28 Radfield wrote:
Great game everyone, the last few days/nights were really fun to watch. Must say I was rooting for town though

My plan this game was to focus hard on hunting mafia. I really felt the only way I could lose was if the mafia beat me to it, so if I could eliminate the mafia I could cruise to victory. And if the mafia wasted a few shots on me, that just gives me more time to find them. If I got down to the last 5 or 6 people I felt I could win. There were better arguments for other players as SK, and eventually I could power the Floridian vote to win.

As far as the medic claim, I really just had other things on my mind, and didn't really think it through. Qatol had said for whoever got hit to claim, so I claimed and went on with my post(I think I made 3 big posts at that time). And Foolishness, you really jumped on my radar with all of your doubting I got medic saved. I couldn't figure out why you would doubt so strongly my claim of getting saved. You happened to be right that I was the SK, but for all the wrong reasons.

Thanks for hosting Ace, this was a great set-up. Hopefully you'll host another one of these soon. Good game to everyone

On May 12 2010 08:09 Ace wrote:
He did get saved by a medic though ^_^