EPTOn May 06 2010 11:35 johnnyspazz wrote:
so if i turn green, how likely is jeejee red?
so if i turn green, how likely is jeejee red?
Explain. I don't see the connection.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Explain. I don't see the connection. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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johnnyspazz
Taiwan1470 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:47 Qatol wrote: I absolutely agree. I've been wondering about Scamp and citi.zen, but didn't want to go there until after we have resolved Johnnyspazz/JeeJee because, as OpZ told me earlier, I was "too all over the place". As far as his posting in other games goes, I can't definitively tell you either. The only other game I played with him was his first game, not counting speed or smurf if he was in them. He was mafia in the first game I hosted and played the clueless newbie extremely well early on, but because the mafia had a huge lead, they all got cocky and basically stopped talking (Scamp included). At the very least, Scamp would make an excellent target for a rolecheck/alignment check/tracker. ionno i read this and thought jeejee and i were related somehow | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
You've been examining other people's arguments for holes - for example, saying Qatol's number grouping argument wasn't a strong sign that he was town. Have you considered examining the arguments you make on your own behalf that way? After all, the rest of us should be reading what you say the way you are reading other players' posts, if we are to be careful town members. You need to invent something that is clearly pro-town and useful only to town members. Why is this? Like others have said, you need to clear suspicion around yourself. You clearly know if you're town, but you need to convince us, and so far your arguments and actions do not confirm you, and you should realize this if you examine what we can see of what you've done the way you are examining other players. The thing is - a mafia inventor would clearly bring benefit to his or her team by turning out guns and other destructive inventions. But if that inventor did that it would clearly draw the attention of the town to get rid of this inventor as soon as possible. However, if a mafia inventor didn't want the town to immediately aim for his or her death, the inventor could turn out ambiguous inventions or tools that benefit the mafia in smaller ways, but aren't as obvious when publicized. It's up to you to prove to us that this situation is not the case. I really hope that you don't instantly react to any criticism of you and your actions by thinking or saying that the person doing the criticizing is scummy, but instead take steps to address the criticism. If you act in an obviously pro-town way that OTHERS CAN UNDERSTAND, then you could be one of the town leaders, given your powerful role. And if your goal is a "town circle" (I really don't prefer this term), it doesn't necessarily have to rely only on PMs. A "town circle" is simply a group of players who know that each of the other players in the group are pro-town and work together to find and lynch scum. The reason they usually need to communicate in secret is that they're vulnerable if revealed to the public - but in this game, you as an inventor can take steps to counter that. | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
The tossup for compvig kill was originally between jspazz and jeejee. I think it was partially based on Qatol's groupings earlier. If jspazz flips green, theres a higher chance that jeejee is red? But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town. | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On May 06 2010 11:49 Zona wrote: Bill - if you're town, you need to work with us, your fellow town members in order to get rid of scum. Even if you identify scum, you cannot lynch anyone on your own, and since you can't use your own inventions, you aren't able to kill on your own either. You've been examining other people's arguments for holes - for example, saying Qatol's number grouping argument wasn't a strong sign that he was town. Have you considered examining the arguments you make on your own behalf that way? After all, the rest of us should be reading what you say the way you are reading other players' posts, if we are to be careful town members. You need to invent something that is clearly pro-town and useful only to town members. Why is this? Like others have said, you need to clear suspicion around yourself. You clearly know if you're town, but you need to convince us, and so far your arguments and actions do not confirm you, and you should realize this if you examine what we can see of what you've done the way you are examining other players. The thing is - a mafia inventor would clearly bring benefit to his or her team by turning out guns and other destructive inventions. But if that inventor did that it would clearly draw the attention of the town to get rid of this inventor as soon as possible. However, if a mafia inventor didn't want the town to immediately aim for his or her death, the inventor could turn out ambiguous inventions or tools that benefit the mafia in smaller ways, but aren't as obvious when publicized. It's up to you to prove to us that this situation is not the case. I really hope that you don't instantly react to any criticism of you and your actions by thinking or saying that the person doing the criticizing is scummy, but instead take steps to address the criticism. If you act in an obviously pro-town way that OTHERS CAN UNDERSTAND, then you could be one of the town leaders, given your powerful role. And if your goal is a "town circle" (I really don't prefer this term), it doesn't necessarily have to rely only on PMs. A "town circle" is simply a group of players who know that each of the other players in the group are pro-town and work together to find and lynch scum. The reason they usually need to communicate in secret is that they're vulnerable if revealed to the public - but in this game, you as an inventor can take steps to counter that. Hey BM, invent a: Detective_Kit_to_Confirm_Bill_Murray's_Innocence. | ||
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johnnyspazz
Taiwan1470 Posts
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town. see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On May 06 2010 11:52 DarthThienAn wrote: Hey BM, invent a: Detective_Kit_to_Confirm_Bill_Murray's_Innocence. Waste of time. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote: Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though. You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
Falcynn doesn't have many posts, and most of his statements are just questions about the game or agreement with plans others have posted. His excuse is that he's working on a film-making contest and thus is busy. The only interesting thing of note is his offer to sacrifice himself so that the alignment cop could use him to determine sanity, but nothing has come of that. Almost everyone but Foolishness himself now acknowledges that he's the compulsive vig. We'll see tonight whether or not the compulsive vig will follow the town's direction. A lot of his early posts include doubts about the public roleclaims during the phase when most of the town was talking about them. Pretty abrasive too, but he's been like that in previous games. We'll learn more when we see the comp vig results. Among the players still living Jeejee has few posts. He thinks he knows Hobbes's role as he was unable to get what he picked, and first expected something from it "he sure isn't doing shit with it" but then changed his mind: "i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue." Actually given this statement I think it's JeeJee's job to keep an eye on Hobbes. And Hobbes should be thinking from his end of things if what JeeJee's saying adds up. Scamp has been pretty accusative all game. He's noted Falcynn and Qatol as mafia on his "list" and at one point said "Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now." But he's also taken a lot of contrary opinions to the town concensus which I think in itself is a good thing, as we should be open to various possibilities and not just focus on one interpretation of things. One interesting thing that occurred earlier in the game is Qatol's insistence that Scamp pick doctor. Opz hasn't said much recently...neither has Korynne, who was pretty active early on. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote: You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. The original gun we were talking about could kill innocents. I hadn't thought of a gun that cannot kill innocents until someone else had brought it up. I'm okay with a gun that can't kill townies. Bill still has to give the gun to someone else to use. While it can't shoot him, he is giving it to someone we basically know has KP (though he hasn't acknowledged it). Thus he wants it to be able to detonate if that player shoots him even through other means. This idea also protects him in the future if he happened to give a gun to the mafia because if the mafia hit him, the gun blows up one of their members. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On May 06 2010 11:48 johnnyspazz wrote: ionno i read this and thought jeejee and i were related somehow You two are somewhat related in that you might be in a group together. So if one of you is mafia, the other cannot be mafia. Really I only brought you up together because at the time neither of you had been contributing. I didn't even realize at the time that you two could be in a group together until I looked at when people claimed their numbers. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On May 06 2010 12:36 Qatol wrote: You two are somewhat related in that you might be in a group together. So if one of you is mafia, the other cannot be mafia. Really I only brought you up together because at the time neither of you had been contributing. I didn't even realize at the time that you two could be in a group together until I looked at when people claimed their numbers. Sorry, Foolishness and Bill Murray. I did it again. If one of them is mafia, it is extremely unlikely that the other one is mafia, but they could still be Serial Killer. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On May 06 2010 05:42 JeeJee wrote: this doesn't make sense if he claims the gun went to a mafia and thats why it hasn't been used, then he should call out said mafia and we lynch him, lol Well said, no idea how Qatol missed that one too. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On May 06 2010 12:34 Qatol wrote: The original gun we were talking about could kill innocents. I hadn't thought of a gun that cannot kill innocents until someone else had brought it up. I'm okay with a gun that can't kill townies. Bill still has to give the gun to someone else to use. While it can't shoot him, he is giving it to someone we basically know has KP (though he hasn't acknowledged it). Thus he wants it to be able to detonate if that player shoots him even through other means. This idea also protects him in the future if he happened to give a gun to the mafia because if the mafia hit him, the gun blows up one of their members. If we're going to randomly add arbitrary functionality to the invention - why not just make the bullets automatically home in on scum? Then we don't even have to worry about picking the good target. And let's not stop there. How about allowing it to penetrate bodies and continue onwards - so it'll hit more than one target! And the bullets might as well roleblock them at the same time, since that would kind of nice? We might want to run a lot of these complicated devices through Ace before we dream up of more broken inventions that he'll never approve. If he's not even going to give us a +1 life invention that lasts more than one night, are we really expecting these to be approved? A detective kit is probably the best viable idea so far. I'd hope for one that could find the serial killer as well as mafia but given that the specific serial killer advantage is that he or she appears innocent to cops, I don't think it's hopeful. Maybe a gunpowder detection kit instead. This would have the advantage of finding the serial killer as well as mafia, but would have the disadvantage of including town-aligned vigs in the results. But after the kit is used, the town can use supplementary evidence to differentiate between the two types. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Falcynn
United States3597 Posts
On May 06 2010 12:25 Zona wrote: I'm actually done with the contest, that was on Friday/Saturday, I was only using that reason for why I missed the role claims. My activity here is mostly due to the fact that I usually don't have much to contribute other than agreeing with others =/ In flamewheel's game (mafia XXII) I was criticized for not saying much and was told that even if all I do is agree with others, then at least say so as that appears less scummy and helps the town by knowing where the townies stand.Falcynn doesn't have many posts, and most of his statements are just questions about the game or agreement with plans others have posted. His excuse is that he's working on a film-making contest and thus is busy. The only interesting thing of note is his offer to sacrifice himself so that the alignment cop could use him to determine sanity, but nothing has come of that. So even though I usually don't have anything new to add to any discussions, I figured I should at least take the advice from last game and get involved with the discussions, even if all I do is agree with people. Anyways, I'm going to go ahead and just say (even if it makes me seem scummy) that I agree with lynching BM or calling for him to be CV'd if he makes some other obscure item that goes against what all the other townies have said. The gun that only kills mafia sounds like a great idea, but really, as long as BM invents something that shows he's at least listening to us rather than just taking things in his own hands would do a great deal to make him less suspicious. Right now, it seems BM is doing a good job (probably not intentionally, but that's beside the point) in dividing the town and distracting us. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On May 06 2010 12:51 Zona wrote: If we're going to randomly add arbitrary functionality to the invention - why not just make the bullets automatically home in on scum? Then we don't even have to worry about picking the good target. And let's not stop there. How about allowing it to penetrate bodies and continue onwards - so it'll hit more than one target! And the bullets might as well roleblock them at the same time, since that would kind of nice? We might want to run a lot of these complicated devices through Ace before we dream up of more broken inventions that he'll never approve. If he's not even going to give us a +1 life invention that lasts more than one night, are we really expecting these to be approved? A detective kit is probably the best viable idea so far. I'd hope for one that could find the serial killer as well as mafia but given that the specific serial killer advantage is that he or she appears innocent to cops, I don't think it's hopeful. Maybe a gunpowder detection kit instead. This would have the advantage of finding the serial killer as well as mafia, but would have the disadvantage of including town-aligned vigs in the results. But after the kit is used, the town can use supplementary evidence to differentiate between the two types. By the way - Qatol's objections were never that it would not be allowed. Instead, he repeatedly tried to say such an invention would not help the town, even if allowed. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
A gunpowder detection kit - that's what I suggest the inventor invent. | ||
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