|
On October 25 2009 03:16 L wrote:
First off: the vet might not claim because if there are 2 vets in the game, both of them die and we're basically fast forwarded to day 4 with no kills. This isn't a 'small' concern. Its a huge hole in the plan. If we gamble and come up short, we're in big trouble.
Second: The flip side to that is if both bodyguards are non-replacements, telling 2 additional people raises the chances that mafia learns about the bodyguards by 50%.
If you're mafia, that's perfect, because you can eliminate the bodyguards, try to say one of the other information holders was the leak and then demand medic protection like you... already did. That essentially frees you up to kill whatever other office holder there is while claiming medic protection while getting the town to waste a lynch.
Oh but wait, there's more. If you go through with doing so and drop a pardon onto whomever you decided to pin as the leak, now we're back 3 days, since we just wasted a day on the pardoned hit, the next day would be your death, and the day after that chances are we'd be forced to kill the pardoned person who might very well be innocent. 3 days is 6 mafia hits, putting us to a 7-1 trade for the play; not bad at all. If we're dumb and decide to hit the pardoned player before you, you might even get away scott free as you point towards the innocent corpse and state that you were trying to help town.
Out of everyone in the town, telling you, or you telling pyrr when you get information is the worst possible idea; Neither of you can be DT checked when they confirm their sanity state, and neither of you can be mad hattered or vig'd once exposed.
I hate to always be the negative nancy, but I'd rather not have us assume a bunch of information we don't have, then essentially get raped before even being able to play the game because of it.
It has to be between myself, Pyrr and a third party. Remember Pyrr already knows. If he doesn't let the info out he is at risk of dying tonight if he's innocent and then no one would know who the original bodyguards were.
So to avoid that we give myself the info also. They can't kill us both in one night so the information wouldn't be lost because they'd have to assume a medic would protect one of us if they are even half competently reading this thread.
So now we move on to the next scenario - what if at least one of us between myself and Pyrr are Mafia or the medics don't prot either of us? They could sub the bodyguards out, kill the other guy and the only person that holds the information is the Mafia. So we need a third person to also have the information - chances are there's no way the Mafia can kill 2 out of 3 innocents in that circle.
The DTs will use their check on the player that the information goes to so that in the event he is killed it works out like the Vet plan would have. You even said you aren't supporting the Vet idea too hard and I myself said I'd rather go this route.
Doing it this way covers any holes. If myself or Pyrr are Mafia and Pyrr happened to give his list to a Mafia cohort AND I died they'd still be in a hole since the 3rd party is publicly known.
@shikyo: L and I get along just fine. We just don't agree on much except that certain people should never be listened to.
|
well well L guess what role I am? 
|
um...Pyrr let's be serious. If anythign the Mafia would sub both bodyguards, kill you and keep it moving. The fact that I made a big stir about them possibly doing it is the only reason that we even are having this discussion.
They can't just sub 1 BG - it's all or nothing. If they only sub 1 then there's no point as they can't kill either of us.
|
and Pyrr you are wasting A LOT of time
|
also you should re-read the BODYGUARD area of the OP to understand the magnitude of the situation
|
Inf I think you've almost go it all.
For one thing we know is certain - both myself and Pyrr can't be mafia. I wouldn't have even brought this scenario up if that was the case.
We also know the if the Mafia do sub bodyguards it HAS to be BOTH and not just one. They have to try and kill one or both of us asap. They can't wait because if the bodyguard info is passed or they can't kill since one BG would be green they'd be fucked because they subbed for no gain. Remember this: BOTH have to be the same color.
We need the 3rd player to be PUBLICLY notified. By this I mean Pyrr PMs the player the BG info, and the player PUBLICLY says he got it. This way the DTs immediately role check that guy so if the Mafia kills him we've got some information. The medics prot me or Pyrr in the case that the Mafia subbed both in.
Now look at it from that point of view. We cover ALL bases and if the Mafia kill the 3rd party our DTs got some info. They can't kill both myself and Pyrr. We move on to Day 2 with info, no lynched innocents, and now we'd have the ability to skip the Vet plan and the DTs possibly 1/3rd of the way to their sanity.
Remember they had to have subbed in before Night 1 is over and this is why I'm rushing it. If we can get everyone on the same page this game will literally be over in no time. Ask yourselves have I ever been wrong? exactly.
|
On October 25 2009 05:41 Vivi57 wrote:
Someone explain to me why we shouldn't post the bg names publicly.
2 mafia: massive protection for pyrr and ace
1 green 1 mafia: still very strong protection because they'd be sacrificing one of their own for ace and pyrr
2 green: this puts the mafia in a hard spot unless one of them is a vet. They'll have to decide whether they want to waste a nights worth of hits just for the possibilty they can kill ace and pyrr the next day. It'll make the medic mindgame harder for sure, but historically, medics have missed every night anyway.
...wow
If any of the BGs are green neither me or Pyrr can be killed, hence why it's all or nothing
Medics have saved players plenty of times from being hit
|
yes yes yes! You're finally getting it ^_^
all aboard the raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaape train!
|
Subbing in only one BG makes no sense as they can't kill either of us until they kill the legit BG. Why would Mafia want to waste time?
It's not half their killing power if no one finds out who did it and that's what I'm trying to convey. They switch both BGs, kill myself and Pyrr and no one knows who did it. We'd lose Mayor and Pardoner with no leads. Thats what I'm trying to avoid. I'm asking for medic protection because the possibility of it happening is very high.
|
Pyrr stop stalling. Send the BG names to myself and someone who has been posting a lot in the thread.
|
On October 25 2009 11:26 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Yeah I'm getting my drank on at a party but I'm checking in. Looks like I was right and they didn't kill either of us so you can quit bitching now. Did I pass it on? No. I've been in touch with the BGs and their behavior led me to believe they are not on the same team. All you passer advocates were sure the BGs were both red or both green so I went with my intuition and we live another day. We can debate about this some more but my guess is the mafia would have killed us already if both BGs were red cause the odds of passing on info only goes up.
The whole point was because I'm a fucking Detective like L said 5 pages ago (you know, the only person who caught the plan within the plan).
I was gonna investigate both your bodyguards and make sure they both flip the same color and match them with the 3rd person you would have given the list to. Either way your behavior is very shoddy and tricode's post pretty much outlined why I really don't trust you right now.
|
Jeezus Shikyo and RoL you guys are terrible.
THINK.
You just said yourselves I wouldn't need the BG lists because any other 2 random people would have done fine right? correct
The Mafia definitely couldn't kill Pyrr + 2 randoms if he announced them publicly right? correct
So what would be the only point of me wanting the Bodyguard lists? hmmm lets see...um I'm a DT and I can check them both to make sure they flip "blue". Then I'd just compare them with the 3rd person or a Vet RC and see if they flip "blue" also or flip any other color. If the Mafia killed the 3rd person I'd have my confirmed shot on Night 1, a lynch candidate on Night 2 to test and both bodyguards already lined up. In 1 Night I'd have 4 possible people to check my sanity on, 2 of them being very likely to be Mafia since the biggest power play (you know, the one no one else mentioned) was them subbing both bodyguards.
However despite the fact that if I was Mafia I'd never even want the town to be highly aware of the sub, you guys think I'm suspect because I pardoned someone you all have literally no clue about and wanted to lynch. Think beyond your ass for a second. I could have easily said nothing, asked my supposed Mafia buddies to sub in the BGs, snipe Pyrr and there would be no way to trace it to me because technically I'd never ever have known who the BGs were anyway.
Why oh fucking why would I go through all this trouble to make the town aware if I were Mafia?
Different game, same fucking idiots. /facepalm
|
On October 25 2009 12:51 Tricode wrote:
So i guess we have to put the ball in Ace's court and ask what will you do about the next lynch?
depends on who it is.
|
yay, my first rolecheck came back and the guy flipped Paramedic. All I need is the BG names now. Both bodyguards are supposed to flip "blue". As long as they flip the same color there will be no complications and this game is as good as over.
|
whoops my bad. I forgot to list the person's name.
Night 1 role check
vx70GTOJudgexv flips Paramedic
I'll take the game into my own hands if I have to.
@tricode: Yea any of them can still be mafia. If Pyrr is innocent and the Mafia subbed both BGs they are probably boned. I just roleclaimed DT and posted the result of my first check so it's kinda too late for them. Every night I'm publicly going to post my results so in the event I die everyone can figure out my sanity. This way the if the Mafia indeed subbed BGs they'd have to kill me now. So this puts pressure on Pyrr to basically go ahead and give up the names so they can be checked.
Also to make things less suspicious they wouldn't want to kill Ace or people would get the idea something was wrong.
Not exactly. If I were Mafia after reading the plans on the first day to figure out DT sanity the first thing I would have done is sub both BGs and smash both office holders. No one can trace it. It also gets rid of the possibility of any protected roles in office. Pretty much if I was Mafia this game I probably wouldn't have any other Mafia run for office if no one else realized the BG subbing threat.
As for determining who's Mafia and who isn't right now just look at who's making the most "pro-town" sense. Besides myself the only other person with a sane plan was L.
Amberlight is pretty much useless and is actually a good call for lynching Day 3. Very anti-town behavior.
RoL is being his typical, anti-Ace at all odds not thinking self. As usual when people finally catch up to my ideas this puts his ass in the hot seat. More anti-Ace than anti-town but still not pro-town at all. Aka getting rid of him isn't a bad idea at all.
Shikyo reads some posts but quickly debates anything. Not a bad quality to have but also not good if you need to explicitly spell out the obvious read between the lines stuff. Neutral at the moment.
L is being L and really at this point why would anyone even suspect him. pro-town.
Pyrr gave the "I'm not paying attention to this game excuse" which firmly sets him as a highly suspect guy. Very anti-town as the best play was giving the BG names to pretty much anyone else as the possibility of him dying was very high. I think any innocent Mayor would have noticed the possibility of such an instagib rape happening and at least tried to do something.
Vivi57. like do I even need to explain? RoL/Amberlight territory but with more cluelessness.
Right now Pyrr and Amberlight would be the best lynch candidates, with Amberlight being ideal. We have to wait to see what Pyrr does. RoL is a close second on the knot list. Vivi57 is always a good lynch candidate.
|
On October 25 2009 13:32 L wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2009 13:01 Ace wrote:
Jeezus Shikyo and RoL you guys are terrible.
THINK.
You just said yourselves I wouldn't need the BG lists because any other 2 random people would have done fine right? correct
The Mafia definitely couldn't kill Pyrr + 2 randoms if he announced them publicly right? correct
So what would be the only point of me wanting the Bodyguard lists? hmmm lets see...um I'm a DT and I can check them both to make sure they flip "blue". Then I'd just compare them with the 3rd person or a Vet RC and see if they flip "blue" also or flip any other color. If the Mafia killed the 3rd person I'd have my confirmed shot on Night 1, a lynch candidate on Night 2 to test and both bodyguards already lined up. In 1 Night I'd have 4 possible people to check my sanity on, 2 of them being very likely to be Mafia since the biggest power play (you know, the one no one else mentioned) was them subbing both bodyguards.
However despite the fact that if I was Mafia I'd never even want the town to be highly aware of the sub, you guys think I'm suspect because I pardoned someone you all have literally no clue about and wanted to lynch. Think beyond your ass for a second. I could have easily said nothing, asked my supposed Mafia buddies to sub in the BGs, snipe Pyrr and there would be no way to trace it to me because technically I'd never ever have known who the BGs were anyway.
Why oh fucking why would I go through all this trouble to make the town aware if I were Mafia?
Different game, same fucking idiots. /facepalm Yeah, I basically prompted you to roleclaim before the night ended so we could make a move, but you didn't. The wine in front of me defense and the after-the-fact roleclaim look pretty bad. You could have made a perfectly fine pitch by stating you were a DT and giving us the details beforehand, yet you didn't. I really don't get this.
Actually I had a post written up to roleclaim but didn't post it just because I wasn't sure if the medics would protect me. Essentially if the Mafia really did sub in both bodyguards and the medics didn't protect me and I died it would have been a really bad play. So the only other way would have been for Pyrr to give me the bodyguard names, I'd announce " I'm investigating the bodyguards" and then make them hesitate to make a move. Of course Pyrr never gave me the list of names and I could have still been killed so I decided to wait until Day 2 so I could have 1 RC down publicly and force Pyrr to give up the names. If I die now at least the town would have some kind of information.
|
On October 25 2009 13:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Dear ace, you may be a one man marching at a far speedier pace.
For you see, we don't actually know the role judge could be
for if you have read the dt role, you would see how inaccurate you could be your so drole
Now you have to prove your mind set, or a noose incorrect someone may get.
Dear man please listen to my plea, don't make me talk about a big green tree
Of course I don't know if it's correct. By posting it as "judge flipped medic" if the Mafia kill myself or Judge we get some good info. Like I said yesterday we can do things without lynching possible innocents. It's like an advanced medic list.
|
On October 25 2009 13:36 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Lol the fact that we're not lynching you after pardoning someone who's inactive anyway makes no sense. Everybody is treading lightly around you Ace, and you come through with this elaborate post, yet how can we believe anything.
Go ahead and lynch me. Maybe it will open some peoples eyes in this game.
tl;dr
|
^_^
I'm not angry, I just like calling people on their bullshit. Really annoying when I have to spell out a scenario 5 different ways and RoL is still drooling going durrr when it's plain as day what I'm doing.
Your post just summarizes the situation even more and if they don't get it whatever.
|
your rhyming while goody, will make L mad
and to see that man moody is mighty sad
the poetry, it harms him, it keeps him up at night
but alas I say, I see the messages in your plight
they get angry, they curse, they spit on your name
but even when rhyming I see your true game
so go on, rhyme, mix and mash syllables!
because Ace will always connect with you like an umbilical
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
