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Most of this stuff happens in football ("soccer") anyway...
Maybe not to such an extent because a football team has say 30+ players in the squad, rather than 5-7 or so for an LCS team.
You often get a wealthy businessman buying a team. Then he throws money at the team and buys in whatever players he can/wants to (if they are willing to play) and he can buy whoever he wants and get rid of basically the entire team if he wants.
You also have relegation (like with NIP). Want to know what happens to football players when their team gets relegated? The good ones leave and go to a better team that didn't get relegated.
Sure, the situation here is a bit weird because they went from a team that didn't get relegated to one that did, and now might be going back, but the main "issue" is that due to LoL's smaller team size and having fewer and cheaper teams, it's easier to manipulate/do funny things that end up seeming weird, but the fact is none of this stuff is a new idea, and it happens in "real" sports too.
Most football contracts with premier league teams in the UK will have a relegation clause where if your team gets relegated, you are a free agent and another team will pick you up.
Any rules which prevent trades/team buying would have to be very carefully crafted to prevent making the player/team market forced in a different way, and to give players and owners the flexibility to run their teams and pick their players, rather than being forced to use one lineup, and give people the chance to get out of LoL if they no longer want to have a LoL team, or get into it if they want to get a team.
In the real world, sports teams are bought and sold. Players are bought and sold. Teams get relegated and players leave. Teams don't get relegated and players still leave. It's not something where you can just say "oh we have a problem". You need an actual workable solution, which isn't something that's easy to come up with in a way which allows the market of players and teams to still operate in a way which is normal for sports.
(*US sports are excluded from all of this because their whole system is different and game-ifies the whole concept of professional sports teams).
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On December 16 2013 09:47 onlywonderboy wrote:
Listened to the games while on the car ride home, damn NiP chocked. Although I couldn't see, sounded like they just didn't adapt and played like crap. Also after listening to several hours of League without visuals, the play-by-play commentary honestly leaves a lot to be desired. I never knew who won the fight until it was well over. Really hard to turn the casting words into visuals in my mind.
welcome to my world.
except I read live tweets. or worse when there is no Twitter coverage I read 100+ pages of TL calling someone a god and another team throwing haha
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United States23745 Posts
On December 16 2013 13:55 JonGalt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 09:47 onlywonderboy wrote:
Listened to the games while on the car ride home, damn NiP chocked. Although I couldn't see, sounded like they just didn't adapt and played like crap. Also after listening to several hours of League without visuals, the play-by-play commentary honestly leaves a lot to be desired. I never knew who won the fight until it was well over. Really hard to turn the casting words into visuals in my mind. welcome to my world. except I read live tweets. or worse when there is no Twitter coverage I read 100+ pages of TL calling someone a god and another team throwing haha
I certainly don't envy your position haha.
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TBH neither roster deserve to be in LCS but I'd rather have NiP one since they have more chance of doing well (except if they play like yesterday :-P)
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Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him.
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On December 16 2013 13:55 JonGalt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 09:47 onlywonderboy wrote:
Listened to the games while on the car ride home, damn NiP chocked. Although I couldn't see, sounded like they just didn't adapt and played like crap. Also after listening to several hours of League without visuals, the play-by-play commentary honestly leaves a lot to be desired. I never knew who won the fight until it was well over. Really hard to turn the casting words into visuals in my mind. welcome to my world. except I read live tweets. or worse when there is no Twitter coverage I read 100+ pages of TL calling someone a god and another team throwing haha
Rofl, my condolences if you were trying to get something out of yesterday's discussion!
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On December 16 2013 16:42 UmberBane wrote:Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him.
That's plainly stupid by him. It's more speculation this time but he completely ruins his reputation within the professional scene doesn't he? I can't imagine that any of the other managers wants to work with him or ATN if he doesn't shut up. Heck, I wouldn't even scrim with ATN if this guy is involved.
He should just talk to ongamers as an anonymous source as is works in traditional sports.
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Rofl@the emo kids talking about retirement. Mithy/zoro are top3 EU on their role at the moment without the shadow of a doubt, retiring would be very very very stupid given the chance that League of Legends gave them, I mean 5 years ago had they been into esports they would have earned a keyboard and a mice and maybe 200$ cashprize here and there.
Now they'd throw away an extremely well paid job given for playing a video game? Kids these days... They can just get picked up by an other team or wait next season which is what, in 6 months ? Hell they could even pull a bjergsen, there's dozens of NA teams needing a better top or a support and it looks like they pay even better than European teams
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
@umberbane condolences to ANYONE trying to get something out of yesterday's discussion.
if you guys can't watch or listen I HIGHLY recommend @LeagupediaLive
they do almost all of NA and EU LCS and sometimes OGN. They do a really great job of conveying the game through tweets haha
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England2668 Posts
On December 16 2013 18:23 RouaF wrote:
Rofl@the emo kids talking about retirement. Mithy/zoro are top3 EU on their role at the moment without the shadow of a doubt, retiring would be very very very stupid given the chance that League of Legends gave them, I mean 5 years ago had they been into esports they would have earned a keyboard and a mice and maybe 200$ cashprize here and there.
Firstly, Mithy isn't top 3 support. Secondly, he wanted to retire at the end of Summer Split too but they made Worlds.
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On December 16 2013 16:50 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 16:42 UmberBane wrote:Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him. That's plainly stupid by him. It's more speculation this time but he completely ruins his reputation within the professional scene doesn't he? I can't imagine that any of the other managers wants to work with him or ATN if he doesn't shut up. Heck, I wouldn't even scrim with ATN if this guy is involved. He should just talk to ongamers as an anonymous source as is works in traditional sports.
Seriously, that guy is the king of leaks, and not in a good way. He'll spill stuff on Reddit, chatting people in client who are streaming, and twitter. I don't understand how he has any connections left at this point. He's an idiot too, if some team wanted to ruin his credibility at this point they'd just make up a rumor, feed it to him, and watch him lie to the entire community.
Also, if I were Dig I'd be calling Zorozero right now. According to Scarra's twitter they aren't going to make any roster changes, but if they could get a worlds level top laner over Cruzer I'd do it in a heartbeat. It seems like a no-brainer honestly, but I don't have a ton of faith in Dig's management at this point. I guess it's also possible Zorozero might not want to move to the US.
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On December 17 2013 02:38 Flicky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 18:23 RouaF wrote:
Rofl@the emo kids talking about retirement. Mithy/zoro are top3 EU on their role at the moment without the shadow of a doubt, retiring would be very very very stupid given the chance that League of Legends gave them, I mean 5 years ago had they been into esports they would have earned a keyboard and a mice and maybe 200$ cashprize here and there.
Firstly, Mithy isn't top 3 support. Secondly, he wanted to retire at the end of Summer Split too but they made Worlds.
He is/was easily top 3 and with Tabzz were the best bot lane in EU last split. Mithy problems are nerves at LAN according to Tabzz.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On December 17 2013 04:12 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 16:50 Don_Julio wrote:On December 16 2013 16:42 UmberBane wrote:Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him. That's plainly stupid by him. It's more speculation this time but he completely ruins his reputation within the professional scene doesn't he? I can't imagine that any of the other managers wants to work with him or ATN if he doesn't shut up. Heck, I wouldn't even scrim with ATN if this guy is involved. He should just talk to ongamers as an anonymous source as is works in traditional sports. Seriously, that guy is the king of leaks, and not in a good way. He'll spill stuff on Reddit, chatting people in client who are streaming, and twitter. I don't understand how he has any connections left at this point. He's an idiot too, if some team wanted to ruin his credibility at this point they'd just make up a rumor, feed it to him, and watch him lie to the entire community. Also, if I were Dig I'd be calling Zorozero right now. According to Scarra's twitter they aren't going to make any roster changes, but if they could get a worlds level top laner over Cruzer I'd do it in a heartbeat. It seems like a no-brainer honestly, but I don't have a ton of faith in Dig's management at this point. I guess it's also possible Zorozero might not want to move to the US.
You could get a rock and he'd be better than Cruzerthebruzer. NA just likes to recycle the same shit over and over.
Look at teams like Cloud 9. When they still had Hai jungling, they were probably one of the worst teams out there, but what did they do? Instead of picking up another used shitter, they went and found Meteos, and with a couple of internal changes, they've become one of the best teams in NA.
What do the teams that blow cock do? Reuse the same shit players over and over. Skillless scrubs like Lautemortis and Westrice and Cruzer are why NA is still shit as a region. Give it up, these guys aren't good and won't miraculously become good.
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On December 17 2013 05:00 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 04:12 Swords wrote:On December 16 2013 16:50 Don_Julio wrote:On December 16 2013 16:42 UmberBane wrote:Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him. That's plainly stupid by him. It's more speculation this time but he completely ruins his reputation within the professional scene doesn't he? I can't imagine that any of the other managers wants to work with him or ATN if he doesn't shut up. Heck, I wouldn't even scrim with ATN if this guy is involved. He should just talk to ongamers as an anonymous source as is works in traditional sports. Seriously, that guy is the king of leaks, and not in a good way. He'll spill stuff on Reddit, chatting people in client who are streaming, and twitter. I don't understand how he has any connections left at this point. He's an idiot too, if some team wanted to ruin his credibility at this point they'd just make up a rumor, feed it to him, and watch him lie to the entire community. Also, if I were Dig I'd be calling Zorozero right now. According to Scarra's twitter they aren't going to make any roster changes, but if they could get a worlds level top laner over Cruzer I'd do it in a heartbeat. It seems like a no-brainer honestly, but I don't have a ton of faith in Dig's management at this point. I guess it's also possible Zorozero might not want to move to the US. You could get a rock and he'd be better than Cruzerthebruzer. NA just likes to recycle the same shit over and over. Look at teams like Cloud 9. When they still had Hai jungling, they were probably one of the worst teams out there, but what did they do? Instead of picking up another used shitter, they went and found Meteos, and with a couple of internal changes, they've become one of the best teams in NA. What do the teams that blow cock do? Reuse the same shit players over and over. Skillless scrubs like Lautemortis and Westrice and Cruzer are why NA is still shit as a region. Give it up, these guys aren't good and won't miraculously become good.
For what it's worth, Complexity was dominating the amateur scene before Laut had to leave.
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On December 17 2013 05:00 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 04:12 Swords wrote:On December 16 2013 16:50 Don_Julio wrote:On December 16 2013 16:42 UmberBane wrote:Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him. That's plainly stupid by him. It's more speculation this time but he completely ruins his reputation within the professional scene doesn't he? I can't imagine that any of the other managers wants to work with him or ATN if he doesn't shut up. Heck, I wouldn't even scrim with ATN if this guy is involved. He should just talk to ongamers as an anonymous source as is works in traditional sports. Seriously, that guy is the king of leaks, and not in a good way. He'll spill stuff on Reddit, chatting people in client who are streaming, and twitter. I don't understand how he has any connections left at this point. He's an idiot too, if some team wanted to ruin his credibility at this point they'd just make up a rumor, feed it to him, and watch him lie to the entire community. Also, if I were Dig I'd be calling Zorozero right now. According to Scarra's twitter they aren't going to make any roster changes, but if they could get a worlds level top laner over Cruzer I'd do it in a heartbeat. It seems like a no-brainer honestly, but I don't have a ton of faith in Dig's management at this point. I guess it's also possible Zorozero might not want to move to the US. You could get a rock and he'd be better than Cruzerthebruzer.
Well, we all saw what Malphite did to him.
On a more serious note - I totally agree. Dig especially seem to get this weird attachment to players. Would Kiwi really be better on support than actually scouting the EU/NA scene for someone who's actually played the position before? You're really going to hang onto Cruzer after that display at BotA? I don't understand how their management lets that happen.
It also shocks me that they picked Cruzer out of what I assume was a large talent pool for tryouts. Dig may not be an amazing team, but they have a guaranteed LCS spot, and popularity with Qt and Scarra, tons of people must've tried out and all they got out of it was Cruzer? Wtf?
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On December 17 2013 05:08 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 05:00 Roffles wrote:On December 17 2013 04:12 Swords wrote:On December 16 2013 16:50 Don_Julio wrote:On December 16 2013 16:42 UmberBane wrote:Holy shit this Olly guy. I really don't like him. That's plainly stupid by him. It's more speculation this time but he completely ruins his reputation within the professional scene doesn't he? I can't imagine that any of the other managers wants to work with him or ATN if he doesn't shut up. Heck, I wouldn't even scrim with ATN if this guy is involved. He should just talk to ongamers as an anonymous source as is works in traditional sports. Seriously, that guy is the king of leaks, and not in a good way. He'll spill stuff on Reddit, chatting people in client who are streaming, and twitter. I don't understand how he has any connections left at this point. He's an idiot too, if some team wanted to ruin his credibility at this point they'd just make up a rumor, feed it to him, and watch him lie to the entire community. Also, if I were Dig I'd be calling Zorozero right now. According to Scarra's twitter they aren't going to make any roster changes, but if they could get a worlds level top laner over Cruzer I'd do it in a heartbeat. It seems like a no-brainer honestly, but I don't have a ton of faith in Dig's management at this point. I guess it's also possible Zorozero might not want to move to the US. You could get a rock and he'd be better than Cruzerthebruzer. NA just likes to recycle the same shit over and over. Look at teams like Cloud 9. When they still had Hai jungling, they were probably one of the worst teams out there, but what did they do? Instead of picking up another used shitter, they went and found Meteos, and with a couple of internal changes, they've become one of the best teams in NA. What do the teams that blow cock do? Reuse the same shit players over and over. Skillless scrubs like Lautemortis and Westrice and Cruzer are why NA is still shit as a region. Give it up, these guys aren't good and won't miraculously become good. For what it's worth, Complexity was dominating the amateur scene before Laut had to leave.
Yea because everyone else are just reusing shitters.
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Regarding cruzer: vlan noted he was the clear best out of the pool of tryouts including "new talent." Either it means that NA top laner talent pool sucks (possible) or genuimely good top laners have no incentive to go competitive (very likely). Between streaming and school/stable employment, would you really play LoL for a living? Nightblue3, despite getting multiple offers from LCS teams as rank 3-4 challenger, declined in order to finish his biochem degree first. And its not like Dig shies away from talent, lest we forget TL's reaction when they brought on Kiwi in the first place. All the "wow so cool much new blood". And then (rightly) proceeds to bash him constantly a split later. And NA teams will poach talent if they see demonstrated performance anywhere. Like Quas.
The argument of reusing talent is kind of headscratching since the amateur scene is NA is filled with players who've never gone pro yet who still can't compete with those reused shitters you guys harp on. Well, up until CoL got utterly gutted by roster changes, but the point stands. And if the CoL drama is any indication, there ought to be more consideration given to factors other than just raw talent.
Edit: fone typing 2 hrd
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Problem with Kiwi is that he never was top laner or was regarded as top soloq player before he joined Dignitas. Dignitas pick him because he was pro in Dota/HoN and they thought he will be good at league.
Maybe NA top laners are so bad that Cruzer look good in scrims when they tested him out?
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On December 17 2013 07:28 orzeu wrote:
Problem with Kiwi is that he never was top laner or was regarded as top soloq player before he joined Dignitas. Dignitas pick him because he was pro in Dota/HoN and they thought he will be good at league.
Maybe NA top laners are so bad that Cruzer look good in scrims when they tested him out?
Kiwi dominated spring split so it wasn't as if he was bad.
Then summer hit with his (and all of dig's really) champ pools being hit with the nerf bat and they didn't adapt. That's where his rep comes from now.
As I said, possible but most of the good/decent top laners are committed to either RL, or LCS/amateur teams already.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 17 2013 07:43 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 07:28 orzeu wrote:
Problem with Kiwi is that he never was top laner or was regarded as top soloq player before he joined Dignitas. Dignitas pick him because he was pro in Dota/HoN and they thought he will be good at league.
Maybe NA top laners are so bad that Cruzer look good in scrims when they tested him out? Kiwi dominated spring split so it wasn't as if he was bad. Then summer hit with his (and all of dig's really) champ pools being hit with the nerf bat and they didn't adapt. That's where his rep comes from now. As I said, possible but most of the good/decent top laners are committed to either RL, or LCS/amateur teams already.
Elise and Singed nerfs in the same patch killed Kiwi lol.
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EPT
