Since the discussion about him just appeared in general and none of you guys seem to be willing to have a go at this, I'll start the thread for him. However, I have no fucking clue how to play him properly so I'm hoping for some solid input here. Guides/Guidelines will be added with credit to OP as they roll in.
W, Drain: Fiddlesticks channels and leashes to a target for 5 seconds, dealing magic damage each second and healing himself for a percentage of the damage done. If the target leaves the range of Fiddlesticks' leash, he will stop channeling.
E, Dark Wind: Fiddlesticks throws a crow that strikes an enemy target then continues to bounce from that enemy unit to another nearby enemy unit 5 times dealing magic damage and silencing for 1.2 seconds each strike. Dark Wind may strike the same target multiple times.
R, Crowstorm: Fiddlesticks targets a nearby location and then channels for 2 seconds, he then flashes to the target location with a flock of crows flying wildly around him for 5 seconds, dealing magic damage to all enemy units in the area each second.
Cost: 150 / 200 / 250 mana Cooldown: 150 / 140 / 130 seconds Magic Damage: 125 / 225 / 325 (+0.4 per ability power) per second
When you're going all out offensive make sure to fear/drain their AP carry when you ult in a teamfight, he's usually the only one that can burst you quick enough.
9 / 0 / 21, Flash mandatory, second one is up to you. I'd get Ignite/TP/Ghost. Exhaust is a waste on you most likely.
WQWEWRQQQQR
Get in range to apply fear, start draining. Wait for Cooldowns, repeat.
Your E only does more damage with higher levels but does not get a longer silence duration. Leveling Q over E allows you to drain longer and therefore deal way more damage than you would get from leveling E.
You make for a surprisingly solid botlaner in anti-AD/support combinations. Fiddle/Garen works quite well for example.
-Honver, a strong US Fiddle seems to use 3 ArPen Marks (rest MPen) / ap/lvl glyphs / armor/level seals / 1MS/1AP/1Flat Mres quint for jungling. (Credit to ArC_man)
On June 30 2011 08:09 NeoIllusions wrote: Just tried Tome => Revolver Boots => Sorcs => Deathcap => Void Staff. I do a shit ton more damage in team fights obvious since I'm skipping on Catalyst/RoA but I feel like I have to back a lot more. Team fights I do better but when just jungling, mana dwindles fast with no mana or mana regen items.
On June 30 2011 10:02 NeoIllusions wrote: So far, I like suicidal Fiddle the best. Full on AP/Magic Pen. Without RoA or Rylai's, you're fairly squishy but you deal enough damage to quad or ace the other team by trading your own life. I'd consider Banshee's if the enemy has the potential of disrupting Fiddle while channeling his ulti. Zhonya's as 6th item.
Just try your best to Fear and Drain the enemy AP carry. They're the only one who have the ability to burst you down before the full Crowstorm duration.
On June 30 2011 06:23 ArC_man wrote: I go WEWQWR, then I max Q (op 3 sec hard cc) and get some points into E and max W last. I like to get enough levels in W such that I can always have it up (no cooldown if fully channeled) depending on CDR.
I go amp tome + pot -> revolver -> deathcap -> tank/cdr(glacial usually)/void staff. I find leaving E as low level as possible saves mana for this type of build (but you really need to hog the blue buff).
I would go RoA first but I just feel like as a jungler, fiddle won't be getting enough farm so his deathcap will be super slow with RoA first. Also I feel like even with RoA, you're not gonna have enough mana to spam all spells like crazy without blue buff. Fiddle uses a LOT of mana =/.
On July 15 2011 00:21 TheYango wrote: AP/lvl reds, yellows, blues, flat AP quints.
You get 10 natural MPen from your passive, so getting 10 more from runes is kind of awkward, because 40 MPen isn't an MPen value that's terribly efficient for anything.
you complained about slow clears on jungle fiddle, and the reason is obvious maxing drain makes your clear horrendous max e for faster jungling r>e>q>w with w at level 1 and 3
like the closest analogy would be max w on olaf over his q
Dark Wind is the last skill you want to max. I do Q > W > E. All you need is level 1 E for the silence. 2-3 levels in W. Then max Q because 3 second fear is imba.
Yes, Fiddle jungle is going to be slow but his ganks are just ridonkulous this patch. You don't even need to have ulti up. Position yourself well and flank in. E Q W and watch them waste Flash.
q max sounds hot, but would you still max w > e? going low shouldn't be an issue even with level 1/2 drain, esp with blue and e would speed up your jungle a lot unless you already have a lot of AP
My Skill order for Jungling Fiddle is WEWQQRQWQQR for the first 11 levels. You could get another point in E instead of W at level 8 but I'd advise against it.
your ganks would be very strong, but is the slower jungling worth it? with good ward coverage it sounds very shaky to rely mostly on your ganks to get you your gold
On June 30 2011 04:36 Navi wrote: your ganks would be very strong, but is the slower jungling worth it? with good ward coverage it sounds very shaky to rely mostly on your ganks to get you your gold
As Fiddle you need more unorthodox ganking paths. For example, if you're trying to gank bottom lane as Blue, don't run into that river brush near Purple's side. Instead, wait for the lane to push and run along the bottom brush. Make sure the enemy minions don't have line of sight to see you run along that path. Then just ulti at tower once your wave has pushed in.
Be flexible since Crowstorm does have a built in mini-Flash. Don't be predictable with just river side ganks.
for example, with ward at wraith ramp and triangle bush, the entire bottom river would be visible against a jungler who can clear quickly, he could just turn to his camps if he knows that they are warded so heavily but fiddle would have trouble with that not to mention that slower clears against an experienced jungler can lead to them counterjungling when they know you're somewhere else
you dont "max" anything on fiddle, you level his skills evenly. one of the few characters that does this, since all of his skills suck at level 1 but are much better at level 2/3
On June 30 2011 04:36 Navi wrote: your ganks would be very strong, but is the slower jungling worth it? with good ward coverage it sounds very shaky to rely mostly on your ganks to get you your gold
As Fiddle you need more unorthodox ganking paths. For example, if you're trying to gank bottom lane as Blue, don't run into that river brush near Purple's side. Instead, wait for the lane to push and run along the bottom brush. Make sure the enemy minions don't have line of sight to see you run along that path. Then just ulti at tower once your wave has pushed in.
Be flexible since Crowstorm does have a built in mini-Flash. Don't be predictable with just river side ganks.
On June 30 2011 05:01 Brees wrote: you dont "max" anything on fiddle, you level his skills evenly. one of the few characters that does this, since all of his skills suck at level 1 but are much better at level 2/3
A few patches ago, I'd agree with you, when each level of E meant more bounces. But since it's 5 bounces regardless of level now, it's a one point wonder imoimo.
On June 30 2011 04:36 Navi wrote: your ganks would be very strong, but is the slower jungling worth it? with good ward coverage it sounds very shaky to rely mostly on your ganks to get you your gold
As Fiddle you need more unorthodox ganking paths. For example, if you're trying to gank bottom lane as Blue, don't run into that river brush near Purple's side. Instead, wait for the lane to push and run along the bottom brush. Make sure the enemy minions don't have line of sight to see you run along that path. Then just ulti at tower once your wave has pushed in.
Be flexible since Crowstorm does have a built in mini-Flash. Don't be predictable with just river side ganks.
What is your build?
Don't have one, still testing. Solo Q Fiddle is not as simple as WW or Amumu (Poor team coordination can mean a wasted Crowstorm. You can't really "miss" a WW or Amumu ulti). So builds and efficiency are still off.
I've been maxing E this whole time in ranked as solo top and have 2 wins in the games I've played. The damage E gets per level now is sick nasty and helps fiddles push HARD so you can get into his turret. Spell vamp with it is silly too, because the damage isn't considered AOE for the healing effect iirc.
On June 30 2011 05:13 Cixah wrote: I've been maxing E this whole time in ranked as solo top and have 2 wins in the games I've played. The damage E gets per level now is sick nasty and helps fiddles push HARD so you can get into his turret. Spell vamp with it is silly too, because the damage isn't considered AOE for the healing effect iirc.
I actually checked your profile and you haven't played Fiddle in Ranked.
I guess it was normals then? I did it on Saturday for sure. I'd have to go look when I get home exactly what I did. Either way, just trying to contribute >.>
ive been maxing e first on jungle fiddle, but running into the problem of having trash ganks pre-6. Ill try q max instead. I'd still recommend lvl 2 e just because of how much of a difference i feel like it makes in terms of jungle speed. E max's jungle speed is unreal, and i'd actually probably do it for fiddle counterjungling (l0l, what an amusing thought)
I go WEWQWR, then I max Q (op 3 sec hard cc) and get some points into E and max W last. I like to get enough levels in W such that I can always have it up (no cooldown if fully channeled) depending on CDR.
I go amp tome + pot -> revolver -> deathcap -> tank/cdr(glacial usually)/void staff. I find leaving E as low level as possible saves mana for this type of build (but you really need to hog the blue buff).
I would go RoA first but I just feel like as a jungler, fiddle won't be getting enough farm so his deathcap will be super slow with RoA first. Also I feel like even with RoA, you're not gonna have enough mana to spam all spells like crazy without blue buff. Fiddle uses a LOT of mana =/.
Just tried Tome => Revolver Boots => Sorcs => Deathcap => Void Staff. I do a shit ton more damage in team fights obvious since I'm skipping on Catalyst/RoA but I feel like I have to back a lot more. Team fights I do better but when just jungling, mana dwindles fast with no mana or mana regen items.
So far, I like suicidal Fiddle the best. Full on AP/Magic Pen. Without RoA or Rylai's, you're fairly squishy but you deal enough damage to quad or ace the other team by trading your own life. I'd consider Banshee's if the enemy has the potential of disrupting Fiddle while channeling his ulti. Zhonya's as 6th item.
Just try your best to Fear and Drain the enemy AP carry. They're the only one who have the ability to burst you down before the full Crowstorm duration.
On June 30 2011 10:02 NeoIllusions wrote: So far, I like suicidal Fiddle the best. Full on AP/Magic Pen. Without RoA or Rylai's, you're fairly squishy but you deal enough damage to quad or ace the other team by trading your own life. I'd consider Banshee's if the enemy has the potential of disrupting Fiddle while channeling his ulti. Zhonya's as 6th item.
Just try your best to Fear and Drain the enemy AP carry. They're the only one who have the ability to burst you down before the full Crowstorm duration.
I disagree, really. Your ulti lasts for 5 seconds, I'm certain you die before that. I can almost guarantee you deal more damage by building a little bit of survivability.
Did anyone try building him similar to tanky CDR Cho or Morgana? Like Frozen Heart, Banshees, Abyssal, RoA, that kind of stuff. Since he has a stupidly long CC and an ability to sustain himself all day if he can stay on a target I can see that work actually.
On June 30 2011 14:19 r.Evo wrote: Did anyone try building him similar to tanky CDR Cho or Morgana? Like Frozen Heart, Banshees, Abyssal, RoA, that kind of stuff. Since he has a stupidly long CC and an ability to sustain himself all day if he can stay on a target I can see that work actually.
probably work ok in theory , think you need a void staff somewhere as well
On June 30 2011 14:19 r.Evo wrote: Did anyone try building him similar to tanky CDR Cho or Morgana? Like Frozen Heart, Banshees, Abyssal, RoA, that kind of stuff. Since he has a stupidly long CC and an ability to sustain himself all day if he can stay on a target I can see that work actually.
I've been doing this in ranked and it's been working out. Quick Abyssal so the AP can't burst me down and then a glacial Shroud into damage into Frozen Heart. It's pretty strong. I like it a lot better than the RoA build which feels really slow to me.
Caveat here is that I've been using fiddle to get myself out of ELO hell. I'm 5 & 2 with him so it's working but the competition isn't that tough. Finally back to even stats though!
On June 30 2011 14:19 r.Evo wrote: Did anyone try building him similar to tanky CDR Cho or Morgana? Like Frozen Heart, Banshees, Abyssal, RoA, that kind of stuff. Since he has a stupidly long CC and an ability to sustain himself all day if he can stay on a target I can see that work actually.
I've been doing this in ranked and it's been working out. Quick Abyssal so the AP can't burst me down and then a glacial Shroud into damage into Frozen Heart. It's pretty strong. I like it a lot better than the RoA build which feels really slow to me.
Caveat here is that I've been using fiddle to get myself out of ELO hell. I'm 5 & 2 with him so it's working but the competition isn't that tough. Finally back to even stats though!
Sounds like your lacking some health in this build, consider Haunting Guise/Catalyst to turn into banshees/Gian'ts belt to turn into rylais
Can somebody give me some advice on how to counter Fiddle? I don't mean in lane, just in general. During team fights or whatever, a 3 second (I think 2 with merc treads) CC is basically infinity duration. Even as a tank, I run in, get feared, and basically get rocked before I can use any skills.
On July 03 2011 02:23 arnath wrote: Can somebody give me some advice on how to counter Fiddle? I don't mean in lane, just in general. During team fights or whatever, a 3 second (I think 2 with merc treads) CC is basically infinity duration. Even as a tank, I run in, get feared, and basically get rocked before I can use any skills.
Wards and game sense. Are the enemy out in "the open" and playing aggressive when they shouldn't be? Are they leaning towards some cliff/ledge/push?
If you're in a Fiddle ulti, it's too late. Best thing to do is to somehow get Fiddle to waste his ulti. If you have good ward placement, run back as soon as he starts to channel.
I started to go for RoA/Frozen Heart/Abyssal builds when I can't hug blue buff and for the Deathcap/Zhonyas/Void when I can. First build is pretty sexy cause you can tank like a baws.
He's been my go-to jungler for the past month (when I'm not playing Amumu)... I open DRing off a 9/0/21 setup and flat AP quint + mpen mark + flat armor seal + ap per level glyphs. Smite/Flash obv.
Start at their double gol and do a ridiculous level 2 gank at the corresponding lane, then you're really free to go wherever you want. I usually just walk back to blue buff and take it but some teams play it smart and immediately run for the blue (as it's the logical next progression) so I can jostle people by just walking straight to mid and doing a level 2 gank again. Depending on the enemy jungler you might be able to catch and beat them at wraiths too.
WQWQ(or E)WR W>Q>E
Item build tends to be 3 DRings into Deathcap and then Banshee/Void/Abyssal, but I've had a tendency to rush Hourglass instead depending on where my ults are going and how much of a priority the other team makes me, ie. if I'm ulting into towers to initiate/towerbomb then Hourglass kicks ass.
Main problem I'm having right now with Fiddle is money... I always have like the lowest (other than support) CS on the team, at inordinately low levels. Like 30 minute game don't break 100. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if that's just how things go.
fiddlestick is my favorite champion of all time and i was playing in ranked at first when he was not this good, and the thing is with fiddlestick there is one problem.
In the early game u can and its better to engage the ennemy champs with ure ult because champions lack burst damage to kill you but sometime ure team doesnt let u engage, however in mid and late game the tank in ure team should always engage (well if ure 15-0 ok u can) before you. This concept 3-2 month ago some people didnt grasp it and so u could loose game even if u had a very good early game because fiddlestick can carry a team ONLY if u have good coordination.
For the jungling, i take 9/0/21 flash/smite and the same as Soulthlight with runes. AP quint helps u a LOT for ure early jungling, armor is not mandatory but it hepls also a bit ure jungling and ure early ganks.
The best item to take first is a tome. Doran rings is a better item yes but like everybody now is that fiddlestick is not a good farmer and u need to level up ure tome to a lucky pick at ure first blue pill if u want to keep a gold influx in the mid late game. There is no reason to take boots at ure first item cause ure junglin will be slower and the boot will help you just for a lvl 4 gank. Ive played a lot of fiddlestick and with the increase of support bot lane who carries 2-3 wards at level 1 and the top lane with some form of substain, dont except to gank at level 4. Its better to jungle faster and to hit ure level 6 faster with boots and a kage lucky to start ganking with ure ultimate !
For the path with fiddle there is a lot of different path. U can start at their double golems or at their red even but the thing is, with so much people protecting their jungler at blue, a lot of them come a bit late to the bot or top lane and sometimes they can see you it can screw you by a lot (and i say that for a lot of champs ! chogath,trynd,ww, etc...) Just dont do it if its the bot lane, they can burst you fast If u start with their red u wont be level 2 but u will have just enough mana to do ure blue. If u start at their mini golem u will be level 2 but u wont have smite ready for ure blue
THe general path is to drain the big wolf then do ure blue -> rest of wolf -> wraith -> red -> mini golems -> look at the lane next to you if u can gank, if u cant blue pill -> jungle to level 6 then gank
Dont invade their jungle, u have no escape mechanism,no cc until level 4 really, and frankly u wont kill someone if they play semi decent
fIddle / lee sin are the best jungles ~2k + elo. Once one lane fails all they have to do is stick there and the game is pretty much over.
I am not very experienced since i only started playing 2 months ago and ranked since 3 weeks or so but im rocking 2k elo and ill share my 2 cents. - Start golem , depending on heroes top and if your mate top has ignite gank and also requires a hero that can kill someone at lvl 1 with your help , its the way to go. I also buy the 20 AP tome as a starting item if the gank top is successful you can blue pill and get uout first gp5 item instanly. Clear rest of the junlge or gank if a flash is wasted somewhere. - Keep in mind comming back top might not be the best idea since its already warded and the enemy jungler will probably be waiting to help there and fiddle aint the best in equal hero number fights on low levels. -The first bought big viable items are: -Deathcap ( You think you wont need zonya) -Zonya ( The game is equal you might get instant gibbed if you ulti into many enemies ) - Rylai ( general hp / ap / utility )
On June 30 2011 10:02 NeoIllusions wrote: So far, I like suicidal Fiddle the best. Full on AP/Magic Pen. Without RoA or Rylai's, you're fairly squishy but you deal enough damage to quad or ace the other team by trading your own life. I'd consider Banshee's if the enemy has the potential of disrupting Fiddle while channeling his ulti. Zhonya's as 6th item.
Just try your best to Fear and Drain the enemy AP carry. They're the only one who have the ability to burst you down before the full Crowstorm duration.
I agree with this, and is the build I run as well.
Only early def I get is from yellow/blue runes, other than that is MPen reds, AP quints, rush deathcap->void staff->abyssal scepter->zhonya->banshee
You are very squishy if they have disablers, but if they fail to disable you, the drain life more than makes up for your lack of defense, and it doesn't matter if you die after a triple/quadra or you get them so low that your team aces after you die.
I don't usually jungle with him, on my premade I go mid and swap at 6 with our jungler, and I just wander around the map ganking. The reason for this is that he is a terrible farmer, and a capable but slow jungler, so the plan is always to be the first to lvl 6, imediatly gank a side lane and then be in every gank possible while jungleing in the downtimes. The only champion's he can't handle at all mid are vayne and malz because of their easy harass coupled with drain interrupt.
my build is (QW if jungle gank) (WQ if no gank)WQWREQQQRWWEEREE
On August 20 2011 04:35 Southlight wrote: He gets banned a lot between US players but EU players for some reason don't play him, dunno why.
Same reason why Rumble was popular on EU for the longest time and not apparent on NA. No one shined with the champion on the server, so general public doesn't have the interest to try out/practice the champ.
On August 20 2011 08:08 0123456789 wrote: I don't see EU players playing stronger junglers or jungling too well.
Definitely EU's weakest suit, as a whole. NA junglers are just multi faceted. Jungles swiftly, counter jungles, early ganks, non 5-man Drag potential. EU can't counter jungle at all and I haven't seen solo Drag or Jungle+Bot lane Dragons by EU yet.
I've been having pretty good luck with dringx2, mercs, abyssals, zhonyas, and then veil/wota/qss/rabadons as needed. It's kind of a late deathcap, but I haven't really felt hampered on damage. I guess it's the idea of dead men deal no damage.
Also, I'm not sure if this was said, but the way I gank is: Ult from out of sight > flash as needed > fear instantly, use fear time to get as close as possible to them, silence as fear ends, then channel w. Maximizes damage and CC time.
Yep. Allows you to turret-dive with little risk as well, which is good as a jungler. It honestly depends on the game, but my most common build is Zhonya's in to Deathcap or Zhonya's in to Abyssal if they also have scary casters. If we're out-right wrecking in early game, then I'll sometimes risk straight Rabadon's. Sometimes if my jungling is going smoothly I'll open Rod of Ages, too.
Damnit I wanted to buy the fiddlesticks pumpkinhead skin but I can't Must have been a brief promotional thing? Hes a good changeup char I like his style. Plus saying Caw Caw all the time is fun as hell.
Fiddle has the best collection of skins omg. Fiddle me timbers and bandito fiddle and even spectral fiddle!
On November 09 2011 05:02 Argoth. wrote: Does the magic resists decrease from abyssal scepter stack with fiddle's passive? And is anyone using will of the ancients for spellvamp?
Abyssal scepter stacks with fiddle's passive. WotA is nice if your AP carry or support isn't building it but it's a luxury item for Fiddle imo
o.o i just started jungling fid... soooo easy lawl... pop out of bush -> death basically -.-
idk I dont like starting with amp tome cuz it doesnt really build into anything but does anyone know what i should build first? i go like tome -> boots -> roa -> sorc boots -> zhonya -> rabadon -> whatever
On November 09 2011 07:40 travis wrote: so this is something i should surely know but when you use an ult like fiddle's and then use zhonyas does the ult keep going?
Yup, all non channel aoe ults allow you to pop zhonyas and still do their damage. ( I know he channels to begin it, specifically talking about once the CAWCAWCAWCAWCAW begins)
How reliant on blue is fiddle for his initial jungling? He's someone I've been a bit reluctant to try out because of how different he is from the junglers I usually play, not to mention I don't have runes for AP champs. But if you are up against a jungler that can counter jungle easily, then what should you do? Whenever I'm up against a fiddle as Udyr and they are doing the standard big wolf -> blue then I always shit all over them because I can always steal their wraiths and one small golem. Against such picks should you just simply not pick fiddle?
On the other hand, are there times where picking fiddle is flat out good? What kind of environment does fiddle thrive in?
he's not reliant on blue, you can still keep up with the enemy jungler in levels but you wont be able to gank if they grab your blue level 1. he's really hard to counterjungle since he just stays full hp the whole time so I never really care if people take my wraiths or shit, chances are im just gonna have my support cv your wraiths anyway so ill be able to tell where you went. then i can simply go to your wraiths after blue and etc. so yea.
anyways bottom line is he is one of the best gankers in the game and amazing in solo q, not as good in arranged play since usually your mage needs blue
Are there any particular progames with a fiddle jungler? I remember seeing on in a tournament game a long time ago when I first started playing but I can't remember what game it was for my life.
Yeah I'm loving this guy. I just recently bought him and I don't regret it. His ulti can change the game and I just got a penta kill with it. Terrify and Drain are good too, dark wind is good for farming.
On February 19 2012 23:11 Yuljan wrote: I agree expect that id say drain is good for farming and dark wind is a killer in teamfights. Silence + Terrify is is a useless ap carry.
Dark wind is good for killing minions early on, for easy gold. If you use your ulti, terrify and drain, its pretty much guaranteed death for the other guy.
I just had a game where i was AFK during selection pick and i was last pick, I had to support. I randomed fiddle, so I picked my poppy page with full armor + magic pen red and classic 9 0 21 support masteries. It was really surprising powerful. I was with mf bot vs vayne + taric. I lvl E 1st and just cast it on em when they were only 2 so vayne was really hurt. Then for pure CC max Q 1st obviously and then E (reduce cd) just taking W at lvl 4 to heal if needed. I just did the ward bitch with gp5/aegis/shurelya. Once you reach 6 they have to ward both bushes and the 3 sec fear is just HUGE! Ok it was around 1400 elo but I may try it again.
I'm more interested in the possibility of lane fiddle. You hear pros on CLG NA at least talking about how Fiddle is a good counter to Vladmir since his drain works through his pool. Wondering how lane fiddle would be played and what other champs he would be good against. Seems a great lane to gank off too since fear and ultimate are already strong.
yo i got stomped by support fiddle ... me (sona) + vayne do shit because fear -> drain -> enemy trist jumps in -> dark wind = one of us died... warded bush and stuff, but that fids zone much stronk... also got a kill from our mid after 6 cawcawcaw
Ok so I play jungle fiddle for the most part. He can get counter jungled easily which sucks and people like to invade fid's blue.
I had a question regarding playstyle and build. I know the most used build on fiddle is going AP.
But with the current meta jungler's are usually tanky. And if you pick fiddlestix jungle then it can leave your top lane having to tank all the damage. So what I think could be viable is Tank fiddle focusing on CDR.
So like Frozen Heart, Abyssal, Warmogs or Rylias, Shurylias, Randiuns,FON, Im just naming some good tank items off the top of my head.
But with fiddles crazy CC heavy kit doesn't anyone else think he can be played tanky. With a 3 second fear, an aoe silence, A sick initiation ult, He seems like someone with the potential to disrupt so much that people would wanna focus him. Which is great because you would be the tank XD.
I have personally used a build like this once before and it did well. But I would like people's thoughts. What do you guys think viable or not?
On March 27 2012 18:57 jaybrundage wrote: But with fiddles crazy CC heavy kit doesn't anyone else think he can be played tanky. With a 3 second fear, an aoe silence, A sick initiation ult, He seems like someone with the potential to disrupt so much that people would wanna focus him. Which is great because you would be the tank XD.
Experimenting is fun, but you should pick a real tank if you want a tank.
Thats the thing tho. WW was a "Jungler" till people started playing him top lane and then he got nerfed.
You don't think a 3 second fear on a short cd about 8 with max cdr, 8 second aoe silence. Constantly draining your health because its always up with max cdr.
With the fear cd you can fear someone for three seconds and in 5 seconds you can fear another person for 3 seconds
And his base ult lvl 16 with out ap does 1650 damage for all the five seconds.
This sounds almost like a tank kit XD. Thinking about the drain more. You get free hp and if you tanky its hard to stop you from just healing up. They would be forced to waste more cc on you.
Whos to say that fiddle can't be played as a "real tank"
On March 27 2012 18:57 jaybrundage wrote: But with fiddles crazy CC heavy kit doesn't anyone else think he can be played tanky. With a 3 second fear, an aoe silence, A sick initiation ult, He seems like someone with the potential to disrupt so much that people would wanna focus him. Which is great because you would be the tank XD.
Experimenting is fun, but you should pick a real tank if you want a tank.
Theres really no reason fiddle wouldnt be a great tank except the fact that his laning and jungling as already abominably slow and crappy, and if you built him with tank shit he would hit 6 about 20 minutes into the game .
Fiddle has a great kit for a theoretical tank:
MR reduction aura Damage skill with high base damage that heals him Massive CC multitarget silence Huge AOE damage with blink that he can walk around during
The problem is that you will never get him to that point in a real game where you have to farm and shit.
But fiddle is a terrible farmer regardless. If you build him ap or not. If you were laning you would be auto attacking for last hits.
And if your jungling i know i max Q first for the cc. So the lack of ap wouldn't hurt me much anyway.
But I do see where you are coming from. The other think I was thinking about was that fiddles health pool is pretty low. But you can always buy health so not a big deal. Thanks for you insight sob3k :D
Fiddle farms way too slow without some AP in the jungle. If you try and transition to tank after some initial AP you won't be tanky enough and you won't deal enough damage. Might as well do something like Hourglass Abyssal Frozen Heart
Fiddle is by far my best jungler. Best ganks in the game imo. Theres tons of really cool places to ult from. From inside of wraiths to under the tower is one of my favorite spots. Down from above baron ult can be dirty as well, or really from any bush into lane. Quite a good champ
On March 27 2012 19:38 R04R wrote: Fiddle farms way too slow without some AP in the jungle. If you try and transition to tank after some initial AP you won't be tanky enough and you won't deal enough damage. Might as well do something like Hourglass Abyssal Frozen Heart
Thats why you 3 dorans first + boots.
On March 27 2012 19:36 jaybrundage wrote: But fiddle is a terrible farmer regardless. If you build him ap or not. If you were laning you would be auto attacking for last hits.
And if your jungling i know i max Q first for the cc. So the lack of ap wouldn't hurt me much anyway.
But I do see where you are coming from. The other think I was thinking about was that fiddles health pool is pretty low. But you can always buy health so not a big deal. Thanks for you insight sob3k :D
Dont max Q first. you need 2-3 levels in W and E before going past 1 Q. Oh man, why Q first?
Q is an insane disable, it is what makes fiddle a good ganker, against ppl without tenacity it is really huge. I always max it after W just keeping one point in E.
I mained Fiddle around 1600-1700 when I still played LoL. He is one of the most fun characters in the game and his kit is fucking awesome, but becomes altogether nonviable in higher skill games because 1. you absolutely need at least the first three blues to keep up with even the slowest of melee junglers and your mid will emodestroy himself or ragequit when you try to explain that. 2. even with blue his clear speed is pretty slow and if you lose blue you are basically fucked so counterjungling is a huge risk.
Too bad because the champ rocks and adds a lot of flavor to the game.
I ran my own special build and everyone called me a retard but I carried hard from the jungle quite often so I think it was great. Run speed, cdr and mPen runes, open ring into boots, do lvl 6 guaranteed kill from wraiths or some other unfamiliar ganking location using flash+ult, get haunting guise and boots of mobility. With mobility and max Q you can chase down and fear any champ in the game whenever there is a chance and if at least one of your team is near it's a guaranteed kill.
Then go for Zhonya as first core item for tower dive ults and finish with rabadon and scepter, with some tanky variations using Rylai or heart if you really need them. Zhonya and Rhabadon is enough firepower to maul most teams with a well placed ult so when you have around 40 mpen from runes and stuff you can basically buy whatever you want. Just don't ever buy revolver.
Try this build, you will be surprised by the amount of fun it offers until you get bored of mid flame / rage / trolling over blue and realize you're not viable without. Fiddle needs some kind of energy mechanic or a mana regen attached to his drain and he's all good for competitive play. I hope Riot does something with him sometime, he'd be an amazingly spectator friendly champ for sure.
On March 28 2012 06:17 Cloud9157 wrote: They need to fix this guy so bad. New jungle destroyed him.
Friend of mine had the suggestion of making his Qs have a chance to crit neutral minions similar to Master Yi's.
You mean his E? I think he's fine, they've just released a lot more aggressive junglers. His level 4 gank is still pretty good, and the ultimate is pretty good against teams that don't ward.
Fiddlesticks is the hero with the largest discrepancy between ease of play and ease of countering.
He's extremely easy to play in such a way that people inexperienced in dealing with him would just flat out die.
That's not to say he's a low skillcap hero or that he's extremely easy to play at a high level, which is not the case. What I'm saying is that if you get a noob fiddle who only knows how to walk up to someone and fear/drain, and someone who basically knows their skills but is still not very good at the game on any other champ, fiddle will almost always crush them.
You have to be intimately familiar with fiddle's skills, positioning, and be able to visualize exactly how much drain does in order to effectively kill/lane against him, whereas fiddle only needs to know how to q/w to beat people who are even slightly over his skill level.
It's like a button mash character in a fighting game, people who know basic combos and how to generally play their character will get STOMPED by certain characters, even when the person is just mashing buttons, but a pro will beat anyone any time.
Lane Fiddle doesn't exist :p he can't farm to save his life and if you max E the loss of either one of your champ-defining abilities is debilitating. So I don't know what to even do with your statement. Also, most champs in the game have an interrupt.
On March 28 2012 06:17 Cloud9157 wrote: They need to fix this guy so bad. New jungle destroyed him.
Friend of mine had the suggestion of making his Qs have a chance to crit neutral minions similar to Master Yi's.
You mean his E? I think he's fine, they've just released a lot more aggressive junglers. His level 4 gank is still pretty good, and the ultimate is pretty good against teams that don't ward.
Yeah, his bouncy crows, not fear.
His clear time just seems so awful. That, and he is ridiculously blue dependent, so blue invades especially hurt him.
Fiddle is just awful now. His clear time is ridiculously slow and equally ridiculously blue dependent. Laning fiddle is pretty crappy against players who know what to do because he can't clear waves for shit and if you max E for lane clearing power you do very unreliable damage. Not to mention champs with any form of interrupt can shut down his ability to 1v1 unless he has sufficient cdr.
That being said, I can't say I miss the days of CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWPENTAKILL. That shit was annoying.
I had been looking for someone to learn jungling with, when suddenly I realized that poor Fiddlesticks was the first character I ever bought. Had tons of fun with him tonight and won every game (obviously 100% my doing...), but I had a LOT of trouble ganking before level 6.
On March 28 2012 08:26 Ryuu314 wrote: Fiddle is just awful now. His clear time is ridiculously slow and equally ridiculously blue dependent. Laning fiddle is pretty crappy against players who know what to do because he can't clear waves for shit and if you max E for lane clearing power you do very unreliable damage. Not to mention champs with any form of interrupt can shut down his ability to 1v1 unless he has sufficient cdr.
That being said, I can't say I miss the days of CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWPENTAKILL. That shit was annoying.
Hah! It's easily one of the scariest noises in the game.
On March 28 2012 08:26 Ryuu314 wrote: Fiddle is just awful now. His clear time is ridiculously slow and equally ridiculously blue dependent. Laning fiddle is pretty crappy against players who know what to do because he can't clear waves for shit and if you max E for lane clearing power you do very unreliable damage. Not to mention champs with any form of interrupt can shut down his ability to 1v1 unless he has sufficient cdr.
That being said, I can't say I miss the days of CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWPENTAKILL. That shit was annoying.
I dunno.
Imo it the best designed ulti in the game. Very powerful, very fun to use, you can counter it... if you dont counter it you can still avoid it.
They need to fix him somehow though. I dunno... He can't lane or jungle, he just... kinda useless.
I dunno, he need major redesign because I want play him aside from like level 5 games on smurfs.
He's probably still fine as a top laner when counterpicking guys with no interrupts like olaf :/ If you have no interrupts I don't think it's possible to duel fiddlesticks (no all in on ignite).
On April 03 2012 21:36 obesechicken13 wrote: He's probably still fine as a top laner when counterpicking guys with no interrupts like olaf :/ If you have no interrupts I don't think it's possible to duel fiddlesticks (no all in on ignite).
I really doubt Fid can 1v1 olaf and win. Olaf while he has no cc is probably one of the strongest dualists in the game. He might run out of your life steal and back in or just tank it and break you.
I think fiddlesticks is a bit underrated. I've been using him and going mid and have been having a lot of success. It's really easy to gank either top or bottom lane once you have your special and fear plus life steal manages to kill so many champions. You do have to get kills early game because if you don't then you will be weak in the late game.
Yeah, although I am generally a nintendudex fan, I wasn't impressed. I mean I do understand the idea behind it, a tank with 3sec fear on a short cooldown, but it seemed to not work out because of several factors. First, as the primary tank on the team, he couldn't properly position to use his ult. That made his damage really pathetic. Secondly, because he bought no damage and Fiddle doesn't have much AoE, he farmed painfully slowly. He was low on items the whole game as a result which led to.. Third, not actually being tanky. His only innate tank skill is drain (somewhat) but with no AP it heals pathetically little. That combined with being almost unavoidably a level behind enemy jungler leads to him just exploding despite building pure tank.
Don't get me wrong, I think fiddlesticks is legit, but not as tank fiddle. AP fiddle from the jungle is perfectly unique with no one else coming even close to his niche (unless AP jungle gragas turns out to be a thing). But there are a lot of better tanks out there.
Seems really stupid to me. Basically you're a walking fear with an extremely weak ult. I don't even really get the point, considering Zhonya's makes you plenty tanky and gives you AP too, along with the active. Even if you're slightly tankier, without the Zhonya's active you're just begging for the enemy team to focus you (it's not like your damage is a large enough threat to instill real fear either).
I feel like zhonya's is really core on fiddles, no matter the situation. Also, I would think Spectral wraith over ancient golem in most scenarios. Lots of room to explore tank fiddles out of the jungle but more likely support fiddles is the better role for him if you're looking for a fear bot for your ad carry (how often did nintendude get fears on opposing adc's?)
On June 17 2013 10:49 SoulSever wrote: I feel like zhonya's is really core on fiddles, no matter the situation. Also, I would think Spectral wraith over ancient golem in most scenarios. Lots of room to explore tank fiddles out of the jungle but more likely support fiddles is the better role for him if you're looking for a fear bot for your ad carry (how often did nintendude get fears on opposing adc's?)
I dunno, even if you looking to "Tank fiddle" I feel like just getting high resistances a lot stronger than building HP. Fiddles drain is huge with HP. I dunno something like Zhonya's-Abyssal-Aegis would probabbly have made nintendude much tankier.
Well, I saw someone do the tanky no Zhonya's Fiddle. He went mobos/ancient golem/bulwark/abyssal's/frozen heart (didn't quite finish it). We won, but I don't feel like it's because of the Fiddlesticks (if anything, in spite of it). He couldn't fear the highest priority target, he did almost no damage, and there wasn't any significant benefit from building like that early either.
At the end of the day, it was maybe 100 extra armor and ~1000 health. It feels like you're just stacking defensive stats that are largely irrelevant when Zhonya's is all you need.
I've seen Tanksticks a few times out of the jungle and it seems to get a lot stronger when/if they get Spirit Visage. Locket, Golem and SV puts you at 40% CDR and all 3 items are pretty cheap. Bulwark obviously needs to be there but once you get SV your drain amount goes up significantly and you have only a few seconds downtime on your fear, as well as next to no downtime on your drain.
Or why get additional CDR from items at all? Most of the time when i see fiddle, the team comp is heavily based around fiddlesticks getting every single blue buff possible, allowing him to reach near 40% CDR with heavy utility spec. I don't see why you'd want to build tank on a champion that has one of the most deadly aoe engages in the game. His scaling is pretty sick too.
Fiddle is my first played, first bought & most played hero. Back when I was a total noob I played him in the middle, all noobs like to go mid ^^
Now I only jungle him. I start dorans + ward, you can go amp tome but I feel you get to squishy. Then I rush zhonyas getting boots along the way. After zhonyas you are a baws. Can ult onto turrets or into entire enemy team and put your hands in the air like you just don't care ^^
Then I get sorcerer shoes & death cap. Filling out with 3 of these items depending on how it goes and what other team does. Rylias, liandrys, abyssal, death fire grasp. You can get parts before death cap is complete I especially like getting that 820 gold part of DFG with cooldown reduction early.
Pre6 I show up in lanes and wind,fear & drain to burn a flash or get a kill. Post6 one ult 1+ kill. I always take smite & flash. You can reposition your ult so well with flash & smite is good for steals.
When team fighting begins I am almost never visible to enemy team until crows start flying. In games where my allies have a clue I usually go like ~10 ~2 ~10. One death being zhonyas on their spawn ran out before my team killed nexus ^^
It's good to buy a pink if you have change left over when you shop so you can deward for ganks or just to increase the fear factor. The time you don't waste waiting for a gank that will never happen and the extra kills make a good return on investment.
I take drain first, then wind, then fear. After that I max ult,drain,fear & wind. My opponents usually only complain about the fear ^^
Tank Fiddle just seems like a really bad version of Rammus...
Slow Clears 3 Second CCs AOE ults with really close base damage
except Rammus has way better ganks most of the time and an absolutely obscene defensive steroid, plus he doesn't have to channel to start his ult, which can be really awkward for a tank role in the front line
Hey guys. I'm a relatively new fiddlesticks player (started in season 4) but I really enjoy his sort of 'tactical' playstyle. I would definitely like to update this page with the new season 5 changes and perhaps incorporate some of my builds/strategies.
IGN: Jessica the Jung
Also, if you would like, please check out my Season 5 fiddlesticks montage!
EPT![[image loading]](http://gamersyndrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/fiddlesticks-splash.png)
![[image loading]](http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3826/pwnl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4gqLI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mvGQk.jpg)
