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An Improved Design? The Disruptor Catapult

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
Post a Reply
NinjaDuckBob
Profile Joined March 2014
177 Posts
July 07 2015 21:25 GMT
#1
Hello! After thinking much about the Disruptor, and alternative ideas, I have thought of a concept that I believe could be a solution regarding the Disruptor, borrowing some elements from the Reaver and Carrier/Interceptors, and adding damage consistency.

I will first present the unit(s) and example stats, then the reasoning. Please keep in mind the stats are only examples, and could be tweaked for balance/design purposes. The concept is the important part.

This would essentially be a two-part unit. Technically, it is two units, but they are useless without each other -- taking a chapter from the Carrier and Interceptor. However, unlike Interceptors, a Disruptor can still survive if the Catapult that produced it is killed (assuming the Disruptor is not loaded inside) and other Catapults can utilize them (and vice-versa).

To avoid confusion, note that Purification Nova is replaced by the more consistent ability 'Discharge,' though it has some similar mechanics.

First Part: The Catapult

+ Show Spoiler +
Produced from the Robotics Facility:
Build Time: 20s
Minerals/Gas: 175/125
Supply Cost: 4

Ground
Shields/HP: 100/250
Base Armor: 1
Speed: 2.5

Abilities --
Build/Hold Disruptor:
Builds a charged Disruptor. Cannot be Chrono-boosted. Can house a single Disruptor and charge it. The Disruptor is destroyed if it is housed inside a Catapult when the Catapult is destroyed (similar to Interceptors inside a Carrier).

Launch Disruptor:
Launches the Disruptor, automatically causing it to use Discharge if it is charged. An uncharged Disruptor may not be launched (alternative: charging is in time or burst increments, and time in Discharge mode/number of Discharge bursts depend on how long the Disruptor has been charging; alternative 2: an uncharged Disruptor is simply unloaded like a unit in a Bunker).

Load/Recharge Disruptor:
Can load a single Disruptor and recharge it. Recharge time: 10 seconds. Recharge progress is reset if the Disruptor is launched before being fully charged (also, see alternatives for Launch Disruptor).


Second Part: The Disruptor

+ Show Spoiler +
Built from the Catapult:
Build Time: 20s
Minerals/Gas: 75/75
Supply Cost: 2
Remains in Catapult until launched.

Ground
Shields/HP: 100/50
Base Armor: 1
Speed: 2.8

Ability: Discharge
Duration: 3.5 seconds.
Can only be cast by being launched from Catapult when charged. The Disruptor must be recharged inside a Catapult before it can use Discharge again.
Is invulnerable and can move through units during Discharge.
Deals 5 bursts of 30 damage over .75-second increments, beginning at 0.5 seconds: 0.5 seconds, 1.25 seconds, 2 seconds, 2.75 seconds, 3.5 seconds. Radius: 1.75
(See alternatives on Launch Disruptor from the Catapult)
Speed during Discharge: 3.4
The Disruptor constantly travels at this speed during Discharge. It cannot slow or stop during Discharge, but can be steered by using move and patrol commands.


Reasoning Behind the Disruptor Catapult:

+ Show Spoiler +
Many people have been discussing splash from the Robo, often discussing Disruptor changes and the Reaver.

Each has its pros and cons. The Disruptor essentially must separate itself from the rest of the army to be effective. However, this makes a rather inflexible all-or-nothing design, where you usually deal a lot of damage, or lose the Disruptor after the attempt -- a hefty loss of 300 gas. There are some cases where some damage is dealt and the Disruptor escapes, but the whole invulnerability --> defenselessness aspect can be frustrating for both sides when combined with the single burst of damage.

If the gas cost was reduced to, say, 200 or 150, but the Disruptor only *almost* killed a group of units, you would want to bring 2 Disruptors which is a bit counter-intuitive. To avoid needing to commit a large amount of gas to deal some decent damage, you would need to reduce the cost and damage to a point where it was essentially like a big Protoss Baneling, and I don't think an altered version of another race's unique unit is the way to go.

High burst-splash damage is also punishing on casuals (more so with the Disruptor than with Banelings and Widow Mines which can be killed from a range in engagements even when they're being used) while often being inconsistent at the pro level. Consistent damage over the duration of Purification Nova would help, but then you have the issue of the "untouchable" Disruptor that deals *some* damage and then runs out of reach of retaliation.

The Reaver's Scarabs, if they act like units, can force the Protoss to split their army to allow the Scarabs through or risk the Reaver being in the front lines, creating some positional potential. However, the Reaver is slow, fragile, and expensive, meaning you still need to keep it with a large army to protect it (though, losing a Reaver would not be such a hefty loss as losing a Disruptor).

This also makes it harder to cover much in terms of defense without reliance on Warp Prisms, which adds to the cost and creates a weakness of anti-air similar to the Colossus, which contributes to the Colossus being a deathball unit as you need more units to protect it (but not entirely to the same extreme as Reavers can still somewhat function without Warp Prisms).

Scarabs also have the same high burst-splash damage that can greatly punish casuals while not being consistently effective enough at the pro level.

Honestly, I don't believe you can completely solve the deathball problem until the Gateway can produce a solid core composition against many armies (not just Bio). However, that does not mean we have to limit ourselves from having a well-designed damage-dealer from the Robo that does not contribute to the deathball problem.

I believe the idea of taking the best aspects of the Disruptor and Reaver and discarding the worst aspects of them is worth looking into.

The concept of a price for a missile is an interesting limiting factor, but a controllable and reusable missile is also interesting and fun. But an expensive, controllable, reusable missile seems to have unfavorable results.

As mentioned before, though, a Protoss Baneling is not wanted. You can't really reduce both the damage and expense by only a little -- or even half in the case of the Disruptor -- or you will simply have to use two of them to be worth it, countering the whole point of reducing the cost and damage in the first place.

However, if you can somehow split the cost of it into something else -- like a launcher -- you can have a cheaper missile with similar power that has another limiting factor (the launcher). There is still some investment in the missile, but not all of it is risked by getting up into the opponent's face with it. The Disruptor Catapult is based upon this concept. The Catapult can act as a powerful ranged unit by using a powerful melee unit and vice-versa, but the two must go together.

At the same time, you don't need to have all of the investment in the ranged unit, so it's not as imperative to keep a large army with it. The durable and moderately quick Catapult has some flexibility in positioning and doesn't entirely anchor the rest of the army to it, but it can still be caught out of position. As it relies on the Disruptor to deal any damage, there is more room for less reliance on the rest of the army to escape or be involved in skirmishes.

This, however, does not yet address the issues that come with high burst-splash damage combined rigid invulnerability/vulnerability and the fact that, while not necessarily a deathball unit, it can be easily used as one.

This is where Discharge comes into play. The more consistent damage allows the Protoss to choose to escape before all of the damage is dealt, and the reliance on the Catapult means that if the Protoss does escape, there is still a way to essentially nullify the Disruptor as the Catapult is never invulnerable. You could have 10 Disruptors which are useless if there are no Catapults, or if there are only 1 or 2 Catapults, the Disruptors can only be used at a slow rate with the recharge requirement.

The consistent damage combined with the "skillshot" aspect, as the Disruptor constantly moves at a high speed during Discharge, means you are punished (but not super severely) for having a lot of units in front of where the Catapult is aimed, while at the same time you are rewarded for using the Catapult at the front of the army or splitting up your units to allow the Disruptor through.

This has a similar effect that Scarabs from the Reaver would have while retaining the pass-through aspect of the Disruptor (which I believe is an interesting aspect and helps to make the consistent lesser bursts have potential to do damage if used well). In fact, the consistent damage adds more positioning potential than the Reaver as getting the Catapult closer to the opponent allows more opportunity to deal more bursts of damage.


Feedback and ideas concerning this are welcome!
NinjaDuckBob ~ Fear the fuzzy!
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-07 21:52:28
July 07 2015 21:39 GMT
#2
Sounds like a dumbed down Reaver to me. I mean, its a Reaver, but with only 1 Scarab. And the Scarab can die after dealing its damage, or, if it did not die, it can be re-used.
I dont think Blizzard is ever going to consider putting the Reaver back into the game. (I dont know why, I like Reavers)
NinjaDuckBob
Profile Joined March 2014
177 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-08 02:48:56
July 08 2015 02:47 GMT
#3
Eh, I think it's more of a Reaver combined with a Disruptor. The ammo doesn't really act like a Scarab at all besides it being launched, doing damage, and costing resources. I think the Disruptor Catapult would actually have more depth than the Reaver. Let's look at some characteristics of the two.

Reaver:
-- Scarabs are pretty much just normal projectiles with added pathing and a small Mineral cost.
-- These Scarabs simply travel towards the target and deal a lot of splash damage in a single burst.
-- Pathing forces Protoss to split units or put Reaver in front.
-- The Scarabs have a time limit before they go off.
-- The Reaver has a clip of them that can be replenished.

Disruptor Catapult:
-- Disruptor is a unit/projectile that can be steered when it is in Discharge mode, and be controlled just like a unit when Discharge is over.
-- Consistent bursts of damage rather than a single burst to allow more micro opportunities to deal damage even if the opponent splits while not being so punishing on the opponent if they look away for a few seconds as opposed to a single burst.
-- Ammo costs more than Scarabs, but is reusable.
-- More ammo can be built so long as the Catapult is empty, it just houses one at a time. So you can fire one, then load another that you have off to the side, like a real Catapult or Cannon.
-- Friendly fire requires units to split out of the way or the Catapult to be put at the front, but you can't a-move it like Reavers -- this creates a "skillshot" aspect, with the shot having further control potential after it has been fired.

So really to me the Disruptor Catapult is actually more complex than the Reaver, but I don't think it would be too complex in practice. The Reaver is position, fire. The Disruptor Catapult is position, fire, control, reload. And with both of them you can build more ammo, less with the Catapult due to cost and supply but you can reuse ammo with it to make up for that.
NinjaDuckBob ~ Fear the fuzzy!
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-08 08:04:31
July 08 2015 07:48 GMT
#4
Already made a unit in a similar vein of thinking to this. Its been in the mod I've been working on for a bit and has been highly enjoyed by our playtesters.

I'll make a quick video to show it off.


Edit: video added
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 08 2015 11:16 GMT
#5
I like that Annihilator.
That disruptor catapult made me think about something like your annihilator too, but with a few differences. (I'm gonna call it Annihilator for convenience purposes; this is just a random musing, that the disruptor catapult and the annihilator video triggered)

When the "projectile" is launched it takes ~1/2 of the health of the Annihilator. The projectile has that much health itself and can be attacked/destroyed. The projectile returns to the Annihilator after discharging and reunites its health with the Annihilator's health. If it is destroyed, the Annihilator has to reproduce a new projectile first which also heals it by 1/2 of its health.

Visually the Annihilator is a Tripod with 3legs and a sphere on top of it. The uppper part of the unit is the projectile which gets thrown into the enemies (and can be moved). If it is destroyed the Annihilater has to rebuild its head.
HolyDiver
Profile Joined April 2010
United States17 Posts
July 08 2015 23:22 GMT
#6
On July 08 2015 16:48 decemberscalm wrote:
Already made a unit in a similar vein of thinking to this. Its been in the mod I've been working on for a bit and has been highly enjoyed by our playtesters.

I'll make a quick video to show it off.


Edit: video added
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfIIfgDDSs&feature=youtu.be



Hey man, where can I find out more about your mod? I haven't had much luck with Google other than your youtube channel. Is it still in closed alpha so to speak?
SC2: a good overall stepping stone, but still very deficient of what a truly engaging game requires.
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
July 08 2015 23:47 GMT
#7
On July 09 2015 08:22 HolyDiver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2015 16:48 decemberscalm wrote:
Already made a unit in a similar vein of thinking to this. Its been in the mod I've been working on for a bit and has been highly enjoyed by our playtesters.

I'll make a quick video to show it off.


Edit: video added
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfIIfgDDSs&feature=youtu.be



Hey man, where can I find out more about your mod? I haven't had much luck with Google other than your youtube channel. Is it still in closed alpha so to speak?

Answering your pm as to not hijack the thread.
NinjaDuckBob
Profile Joined March 2014
177 Posts
July 10 2015 17:47 GMT
#8
@decemberscalm:

First, thanks for the respect towards the thread, I always appreciate things like that. :-)

I will say some things about the Annihilator, though, just because I don't mind talking about similar unit ideas.

While I do still prefer mostly consistent damage over a single burst, I like how you balance the single burst using less damage and radius and a fairly quick firing rate. That does add a consistency factor to it. The relatively short range (given the short time before it goes off combined with a moderately quick speed helps avoid it being a deathball unit and provides a counterplay aspect.

I do find it a little strange how it can move through friendly units but not enemy units. One argument I've seen for the Reaver is that it forces the Protoss army to split out of the way of Scarabs or use the Reaver in the front. I'm not sure how practical that would be in practice, though. I also understand the Annihilator's Scarabs might be harder to balance if they could move through enemy units.

The energy aspect has its pros and its cons. It provides a type of counterplay for fragile compositions like Bio, and counterplay if someone happens to mass them. The quick recharge rate/low energy cost for Scarabs does make such counterplay not quite as effective (aside from Feedback), but is needed to act sort of like a cooldown to make it useful enough, which kind of puts it in a weird spot. I'm guessing Ghosts or lots of Marauders could be used to counter it for Bio, given that the Bio army in the video was pretty much creamed even when micro'd (though it seems like the Protoss army was more expensive in that case).

@BigJ:

Annihilator Catapult? X-D

Interesting idea with the health. Makes it tankier when all of the investment is in one piece. Not sure if 1/2 health is the right amount, but it's good for demonstrating the concept.

The model sounds either like a Colossus with a detachable head or a 3-legged Dragoon with a Photon Cannon-like orb on top X-D
NinjaDuckBob ~ Fear the fuzzy!
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