• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:36
CEST 22:36
KST 05:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202532Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder8EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced40BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Classic: "It's a thick wall to break through to become world champ" Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation Serral wins EWC 2025
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers? Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced 2025 Season 2 Ladder map pool Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 712 users

2020 Off-Season Roster Shuffle Discussion Thread - Page 6

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 11 Next All
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9196 Posts
November 24 2019 14:26 GMT
#101
I think EU orgs would do the same if they could afford hiring players better or more marketable than their (admittedly better than NA's) local talent. Thankfully China and NA are much richer, so competing with those regions wasn't possible, which forced Europe to look for alternatives among "unproven" local players.

Having lots of national leagues probably helped too, I think it would much harder to find promising players if we had a more centralized system because imports would likely dominate in the "academy" league too.
You're now breathing manually
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 24 2019 14:33 GMT
#102
I call bs on the less talent argument, just because the player pool is half of EU/KR doesn't mean that NA should be struggling to find even single digit numbers of new talent. And gaming culture doesn't really hold either, yeah it's tough to move from the East Coast to California, while the LEC revolves around Berlin with hot spots around Western Europe, and the ping can be quite high (50-100 vs 10-50 in EUW), but again I just don't buy that resulting in such a drought. Especially because NA pays so much more than EU, Academy salaries aren't often disclosed but unless NA is paying them minimum wage they should be able to find people.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9196 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-24 15:35:27
November 24 2019 15:34 GMT
#103
It's not just a "less talent" argument, it's a "less talent + more money" argument. It makes no sense to invest in NA equivalent of Abbedage when you can afford to import Power of Evil, Nisqy or Crown. And you have just one NAbbedage, who might not be what your team needs while there are 3 Abbedages in Europe, so there's a higher chance one of them will be exactly what you need.

I didn't bring up gaming culture argument but If I were to do that I would start with claiming that there have to be some structural and/or cultural differences between NA, EUW and EUNE that result in the last one producing much more top tier talent than the first two.

Also, I'm just guessing here, but I think EU's competitive/semiprofessional player pool is more than twice as big as NA's, it's only the entire server(s) population that's twice as big.
You're now breathing manually
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 24 2019 16:18 GMT
#104
Was actually replying to Redox with my comment, yours got posted while I was typing it. So I've only just read it now.

It's not just a "less talent" argument, it's a "less talent + more money" argument. It makes no sense to invest in NA equivalent of Abbedage when you can afford to import Power of Evil, Nisqy or Crown. And you have just one NAbbedage, who might not be what your team needs while there are 3 Abbedages in Europe, so there's a higher chance one of them will be exactly what you need.


But NA has failed miserably making the best out of these imports? People make fun of NA as a retirement home because they get paid big bucks but have very little to show. Outside of TL, a team of established veterans, everyone has imports that are only mid tier at best. There are def NA naturals who could replace them if given the training and chance. NA teams have enough money to put NA Abbedage on an academy roster, EU Abbedage on the main team, and probably a no name in the team house. Not investing into future assets because they don't rake in the cash/stability right now seems like bad business, especially because LCS is a franchise and thus team's don't have to worry about relegation anymore.

Also, I'm just guessing here, but I think EU's competitive/semiprofessional player pool is more than twice as big as NA's, it's only the entire server(s) population that's twice as big.


I think you're right, but that doesn't address why the semi-pro scene is so much bigger. Why are there no minor NA tournaments that get streamed on Twitch? There's always people casting German/Austrian/Spanish/Polish/French cups and leagues that get a few thousand viewers, why did these form in EU and not NA? Did Riot NA not put the same resources in as Riot EU, or did they focus too much only on major teams? Are NA sponsors only looking at the LCS, and completely ignoring local sponsorship? NA had such a headstart in terms of infrastructure, so much money was being invested in the early seasons, hence why people expected them to follow KR and become a powerhouse.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
November 24 2019 17:38 GMT
#105
iG loses Mafa, keeps theShy
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
November 24 2019 21:17 GMT
#106

Amazing retires


Aphro officially out of 100T


Kobbe officially joins TSM

BB
Dardoch
Bjerg
Kobbe
Bio
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9196 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-24 21:25:24
November 24 2019 21:24 GMT
#107
Amazing retires


Almost expected him to land in another good team for a split or two. I wonder if it's just "retiring" or "retiring to work as a coach".

Why are there no minor NA tournaments that get streamed on Twitch? There's always people casting German/Austrian/Spanish/Polish/French cups and leagues that get a few thousand viewers, why did these form in EU and not NA?


I think it happened naturally because of language differences. Not only there are people who don't know English well enough to follow esports casted in that language, there's also that desire to follow "our guys" in esports that gets people to watch their local leagues, and language differences make that desire stronger. Just guessing here but I'm convinced Americans wouldn't feel the same about watching state or regional (e.g. East Coast) American tournaments as Europeans feel about watching their national leagues.
You're now breathing manually
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
November 25 2019 00:47 GMT
#108
WE.Mystic left the team last week, turns out he came back to Korea and joined Afreeca

DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 25 2019 15:15 GMT
#109
I'm happy about that, I like Mystic when he first joined WE, I only stopped following them last year because they sucked and the nostalgia of watching Weixiao wore off.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
AdsMoFro
Profile Joined January 2015
Japan4761 Posts
November 25 2019 15:28 GMT
#110
Big news out of LCK. Griffin's parent company announced that they've annulled all current contracts with their players. They've announced that Lehends, Chovy and Doran have all declined their new contracts. Everyone on Griffin is now FA.
Que Sera Sera
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 25 2019 16:38 GMT
#111
Rumours that those 3 are going to DRX, in which case Deft won't just get a good team he can carry, he'll get one capable of hard carrying him.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
November 25 2019 21:37 GMT
#112
Stunt officially the 100T support


Ssumday
Meteos
??? (currently Ryoma)
??? (rumored Cody)
Stunt
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-25 23:51:16
November 25 2019 23:47 GMT
#113


TL adds Shernfire to the jungle for TLA

Pobelter out of LCS

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr2sa1

With Damonte and Pob out of LCS that leaves NA mids at....GoldenGlue?
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 26 2019 01:54 GMT
#114
--- Nuked ---
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-26 04:08:59
November 26 2019 04:03 GMT
#115
He makes some points in there about playing for kda or hogging counter(last) pick that have some real resonance. I would hope na gms would be better than to look at kda and call it a day but I mean Santorin is employed so xD.
Carrilord has arrived.
AdsMoFro
Profile Joined January 2015
Japan4761 Posts
November 26 2019 09:38 GMT
#116
The one thing that is left out though is how much is Pobeleter wanting vs these other guys. Ryoma, for example, is probably on the LCS minimum wage.
Que Sera Sera
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-26 12:10:14
November 26 2019 12:09 GMT
#117
SKT pick up Roach and Coach Kim (of iG fame), and transfer their trainee squad to their official roster.

Also Lira out of Dig and not in LCS 2020
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35147 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-26 12:41:15
November 26 2019 12:36 GMT
#118
I could see PoB going to a wildcard league for a bit.

Roach to T1 for Top.
Kim(DWG/iG) to T1 for Coach)
Kkoma to Vici
Johnsun to start at ADC for DIG
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-26 12:41:22
November 26 2019 12:38 GMT
#119
https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/dignitas-struggling-after-spending-budget-on-huni

Who knew

https://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/28163021/kkoma-vici-gaming-kim-jeong-soo-t1
Rip Kkoma, that’s a fucking yikes
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8649 Posts
November 26 2019 13:22 GMT
#120
what i dont understand is kkoma is getting married real soon (or he literally just got married). its entirely possible that the newlywed couple was happy to move to china but more likely than not id expect that his wife had her own life in korea and would have preferred to stay in the country? seems very weird that he moved to china given his new personal life
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
Team Wars - Round 1
Dewalt vs Hawk
ZZZero.O5
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 235
Creator 220
UpATreeSC 173
JuggernautJason116
BRAT_OK 79
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18966
firebathero 269
Aegong 70
sas.Sziky 22
ZZZero.O 5
ggaemo 0
Dota 2
syndereN54
capcasts50
NeuroSwarm21
League of Legends
Grubby3835
Counter-Strike
fl0m3611
sgares270
flusha226
byalli181
Stewie2K160
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu525
Other Games
gofns11650
shahzam264
C9.Mang072
PPMD45
ZombieGrub35
Sick33
tarik_tv0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 11
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 26 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 234
• StrangeGG 68
• davetesta50
• LUISG 18
• iHatsuTV 8
• Reevou 4
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 28
• blackmanpl 23
• 80smullet 19
• Azhi_Dahaki11
• FirePhoenix5
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22412
• WagamamaTV484
Other Games
• imaqtpie1280
• Shiphtur281
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
6h 24m
CranKy Ducklings
13h 24m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
15h 24m
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
WardiTV European League
19h 24m
ShoWTimE vs Harstem
Shameless vs MaxPax
HeRoMaRinE vs SKillous
ByuN vs TBD
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
Bonyth vs TBD
WardiTV European League
1d 19h
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
CAC 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.