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Jack's opinion of this article:
Specific to the article linked I'm disappointed that Liquid be involved in a click bait article without contacting me for comment. From https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7odc9t/cloud9s_statment_on_selfie/ds8x9t5/
Good life lesson on writing articles, AdsMoFro: it's usually better to get some sources beyond an unconfirmed Reddit post before questioning the effectiveness of an organization like you've done here. This article isn't even a day old and it's already aged extremely poorly, alongside putting your credibility in an awkward spot.
Hopefully your next one's better than this.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/18c2dc3c65be60a0381c677abf4ac0e4.png)
What does this mean? lmao.
Are we getting kicked out or what?
EDIT:
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/a93b8b9e8aba667e3ff66a4bce06ebab.png)
We're getting kicked out 
Also don't click the links they contain malware apparently 
And he deleted all his tweets, maybe we're saved!
So that was a fun 30 minutes while someone had to go explain to liquid112 what TLnet is.
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He wants this to compete with Reddit?
No one comes here this site/sub forum whatever has been dead since I started coming here like 6 years ago
Nothing has changed and there is no reason for him to change the name.
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LOL
Hey Jack if you're reading this which you're not because if you were you wouldn't be so mad for no reason I just want you to know that C9 is a garbage organisation and can you leave London already because you're an embarrassment?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 06 2018 11:26 Bladeorade wrote:
He wants this to compete with Reddit?
No one comes here this site/sub forum whatever has been dead since I started coming here like 6 years ago
Nothing has changed and there is no reason for him to change the name.
No one is getting kicked out  Reddit was used as an analogy because it's very strange for a proteam to also operate community sites.
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My thoughts:
I don't think anything negative about Cloud9 was said here, but I do think that reaching out to them as a courtesy would have been preferred. We'll make sure our writers are aware of this. How the community reacts to a player being in a bad spot, and who they blame, is not really something we control.
Our sites are an important part of our identity and I legitimately believe and know that we owe our community sites for what and where we are today. We are proud of the work our writers put out and have never dictated what our writers could or could not write about, but we do want them to be aware of sensitive issues and handle them appropriately by giving parties a chance for input.
As for TL.net we don't own the URL so we'll see. It's not really a major item for us and I may have given Steve the impression that this is further along than it really is.
- Naz
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On January 06 2018 12:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't think anything negative about Cloud9 was said here Explicitly? I agree. However, the article exists on the basis that the Player's Association needed to be involved at all, which implicitly places Cloud9 in a negative light in regards to Selfie's situation. I'm not surprised that Jack is upset about this article being written without even attempting to get a statement from him or the team in general.
That being said, agree with the rest of your statement 100%.
I feel like this is newer territory for the community sites, which have previously been focused on interviews, game recaps, biographical pieces, and the like when it comes to featured articles written by volunteer staff. This article is entering the realm of journalism, to which it fell short of the necessary standard. Historically, the community sites have handled these kinds of news-worthy topics by simply being a repository for information and the OP places no opinion. The opinion always came from community members commenting on the threads (they don't represent the opinions of the site and aren't endorsed by way of being featured).
If the community writers are going to be contributing this kind of journalistic content, the bar needs to be raised -- especially if the piece is critical in nature like this one was.
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On January 06 2018 14:54 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2018 12:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't think anything negative about Cloud9 was said here Explicitly? I agree. However, the article exists on the basis that the Player's Association needed to be involved at all, which implicitly places Cloud9 in a negative light in regards to Selfie's situation. I'm not surprised that Jack is upset about this article being written without even attempting to get a statement from him or the team in general. That being said, agree with the rest of your statement 100%. I feel like this is newer territory for the community sites, which have previously been focused on interviews, game recaps, biographical pieces, and the like when it comes to featured articles written by volunteer staff. This article is entering the realm of journalism, to which it fell short of the necessary standard. Historically, the community sites have handled these kinds of news-worthy topics by simply being a repository for information and the OP places no opinion. The opinion always came from community members commenting on the threads (they don't represent the opinions of the site and aren't endorsed by way of being featured). If the community writers are going to be contributing this kind of journalistic content, the bar needs to be raised -- especially if the piece is critical in nature like this one was.
Hey,
Thanks for the feedback. I will try to ensure my next article of this tone does reach out to those in question, even tangentially as such.
On the C9 being put in a negative light, I feel like most of the negative light is being shed on the players association but regardless I can understand your point.
Just a question. Should the Player's Association not be involved in dozens of players being transferred across teams due to franchising? Is it not something they should be a part of to ensure that players aren't locked into what could essentially be ghost contracts due to basically no fault of their own? As far as we can tell, over three weeks transpired between his contract being transferred to C9 and his offer to be the substitute for the academy roster being denied. By then, most teams would have had their eye on rosters or even signed contracts.
Now, here's the thing, I'm not saying C9 did anything wrong. This could just be an unfortunate situation where "shit happens" and Selfie has to wait out a split. I'm saying that the players association should be there to help these unfortunate situations from happening and as such have failed in their role which means that the tone of the article changes from silence to ineffectiveness but the tone stays relatively the same. Now whether I made that clear enough in the article is debatable. With this many people getting it wrong, I guess I didn't. I'll try and ensure my next pieces are more accurate in their message.
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I'm not sure I follow with the idea that the PA being involved means that C9 has done something wrong, why is this the case?
Your ability to annoy Jack is honestly impressive, Ads. Even if you think this article is negative, what an overreaction holy... Imagine if this was a Reddit post or some other random news site nobody would even care.
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On January 06 2018 15:43 Ansibled wrote:I'm not sure I follow with the idea that the PA being involved means that C9 has done something wrong, why is this the case? Your ability to annoy Jack is honestly impressive, Ads. Even if you think this article is negative, what an overreaction holy... Imagine if this was a Reddit post or some other random news site nobody would even care. https://twitter.com/JackEtienne/status/949524924535730176
i thought the article was perfectly fine, strange to see such a overreaction lol
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I guess next time send a DM to a random person from the organization so people can at least say it hasn't reacted yet or something?
I don't see the fuss, or what he's gaining by being this butthurt.
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On January 06 2018 15:30 AdsMoFro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2018 14:54 iamcaustic wrote:On January 06 2018 12:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't think anything negative about Cloud9 was said here Explicitly? I agree. However, the article exists on the basis that the Player's Association needed to be involved at all, which implicitly places Cloud9 in a negative light in regards to Selfie's situation. I'm not surprised that Jack is upset about this article being written without even attempting to get a statement from him or the team in general. That being said, agree with the rest of your statement 100%. I feel like this is newer territory for the community sites, which have previously been focused on interviews, game recaps, biographical pieces, and the like when it comes to featured articles written by volunteer staff. This article is entering the realm of journalism, to which it fell short of the necessary standard. Historically, the community sites have handled these kinds of news-worthy topics by simply being a repository for information and the OP places no opinion. The opinion always came from community members commenting on the threads (they don't represent the opinions of the site and aren't endorsed by way of being featured). If the community writers are going to be contributing this kind of journalistic content, the bar needs to be raised -- especially if the piece is critical in nature like this one was. Hey, Thanks for the feedback. I will try to ensure my next article of this tone does reach out to those in question, even tangentially as such. On the C9 being put in a negative light, I feel like most of the negative light is being shed on the players association but regardless I can understand your point. Just a question. Should the Player's Association not be involved in dozens of players being transferred across teams due to franchising? Is it not something they should be a part of to ensure that players aren't locked into what could essentially be ghost contracts due to basically no fault of their own? As far as we can tell, over three weeks transpired between his contract being transferred to C9 and his offer to be the substitute for the academy roster being denied. By then, most teams would have had their eye on rosters or even signed contracts. Now, here's the thing, I'm not saying C9 did anything wrong. This could just be an unfortunate situation where "shit happens" and Selfie has to wait out a split. I'm saying that the players association should be there to help these unfortunate situations from happening and as such have failed in their role. Now whether I made that clear enough in the article is debatable. With this many people getting it wrong, I guess I didn't. I'll try and ensure my next pieces are more accurate in their message.
In short, no. The PA does not have the power to unilaterally decide to involve itself. It it not a union and the players did not join the union. Even then, a collective bargaining agreement of some sort would have to be signed for a union need to involve itself, and it would only do so if it was covered as being an item of interest in the agreement. i.e. if you were being payed less than union rates mandated, the union would get involved. If you think you deserved a raise above that, the union would not get involved.
Again, with all that said, the PA is not a union.
http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/19617991/riot-players-association-lays-groundwork-unionization
"What these guys are talking about is not a union," said Gene Orza, retired chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association. "They're using the word 'association,' but they will not be like the baseball players' or the football players' union, because they're not going to be a union.
"To form a union, you need employees, with an employer, who band together for the purpose of bargaining with, and some would say against, the employer. And that's not what's being envisioned here."
"As long as they are taking Riot's money, under federal law they can't form a union," Greeley said. "So, for example, they can't collectively bargain or strike. But they can have a representative, [and] that representative is more than welcome to sit with us, and we will listen to those concerns and provide that representative with a vote as we start to work through governance issues.
So the association has no reason to intervene without selfie requesting help himself. There is no indication Selfie did this, so the responsibility and fault lies 100% on him and not what we think the player's association should be. The article was written with a heavily accusatory tone, one of "PA failed to protect" and not one of "players need more protections", so the lack of research done hurts it much more because of the strong and accusatory tone taken.
While i think jack's reaction is overblown as c9 wasn't directly pushed in the article, the entire article is of a particularly low bar in terms of the research done, and formulates opinion based on guesses as to how deals were made and the contracts functioned, or were supposed to function. I may be wrong, and you may have some insider or expert information, but it doesn't seem that way.
To add: the difference between clickbait and a proper opinion piece isn't necessarily the amount of information you have, but the tone, presentation, and focus - this article was more about trying to pitchfork the players association, and be relation, c9 and selfie. It heavily focusing on emotional responses (as evidenced by the section headings and the article title itself) as opposed to laying out facts and then providing context to help form an opinion.
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i thought the article was perfectly fine, strange to see such a overreaction lol
It's not exactly click bait, it's just a bit sensational because it was written prior to a 'trustable' source post, aka C9. In fact if you read the article, you'll notice there are a lot of words and phrases that suggest uncertainty, because Ads was writing an article about something where little information had been released. It's exactly the type of content being churned out non stop in the League community, because there is a demand for quickly written (even a day or 2 of writing is quite short) recaps of possible rumours and current events. I think this is a good step forward for releasing content on LL, so long as we don't become tabloid trash.
The article is not dramatic and does not make stuff up, it simply includes (arguably not well based) theories about what transpired to Selfie, and the noticeable lack of the PA being involved. This isn't the first time player's have posted their opinions on reddit to garner support and create outrage, and it isn't the first time it has been struck down afterwards by team statements. Although I just saw the reddit title, which is pretty overdramatic, so I guess things can be improved.
Wow, Jack called Ads a monkey, that's just sad lol. That's a word I'd reserve for actual clickbait with wild statements, not a standard rumour mill article.
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Looks like team owners are just as prone to overreacting as reddit users. Poor Ads doesn't deserve this hate.
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On January 06 2018 15:43 Ansibled wrote:I'm not sure I follow with the idea that the PA being involved means that C9 has done something wrong, why is this the case? Your ability to annoy Jack is honestly impressive, Ads. Even if you think this article is negative, what an overreaction holy... Imagine if this was a Reddit post or some other random news site nobody would even care. https://twitter.com/JackEtienne/status/949524924535730176
??????
why tho
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On January 06 2018 19:48 Sent. wrote:
Looks like team owners are just as prone to overreacting as reddit users. Poor Ads doesn't deserve this hate.
This is a well-known tactic by the LOL teams:
1) Person reports A.
2) Team denies A, calls reporter a liar.
3) Community credulously believes the team.
4a) A happens. No one apologizes. Team typically FURTHER states that it only became true because of the reporting.
4b) A does not happen. Reporter is forever stigmatized, even if he had a double sourced story that was very cautiously written such as, "this is probably going to happen".
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Hard to talk about the quality of the article with full hindsight and be fair so I won’t, But jack is going full redditor lol.
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On January 06 2018 23:31 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2018 19:48 Sent. wrote:
Looks like team owners are just as prone to overreacting as reddit users. Poor Ads doesn't deserve this hate. This is a well-known tactic by the LOL teams: 1) Person reports A. 2) Team denies A, calls reporter a liar. 3) Community credulously believes the team. 4a) A happens. No one apologizes. Team typically FURTHER states that it only became true because of the reporting. 4b) A does not happen. Reporter is forever stigmatized, even if he had a double sourced story that was very cautiously written such as, "this is probably going to happen".
This happens with all reporters tho. You either gotta have enough credibility to stand on your own after 4a/4b happens, or you gotta refrain from doing anything that is perceived as attacking the big bois.
This sorta happens all the time in regular sports, or even outside of sports when reporters decide to tackle big companies or politicians.
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On January 08 2018 07:48 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2018 23:31 cLutZ wrote:On January 06 2018 19:48 Sent. wrote:
Looks like team owners are just as prone to overreacting as reddit users. Poor Ads doesn't deserve this hate. This is a well-known tactic by the LOL teams: 1) Person reports A. 2) Team denies A, calls reporter a liar. 3) Community credulously believes the team. 4a) A happens. No one apologizes. Team typically FURTHER states that it only became true because of the reporting. 4b) A does not happen. Reporter is forever stigmatized, even if he had a double sourced story that was very cautiously written such as, "this is probably going to happen". This happens with all reporters tho. You either gotta have enough credibility to stand on your own after 4a/4b happens, or you gotta refrain from doing anything that is perceived as attacking the big bois. This sorta happens all the time in regular sports, or even outside of sports when reporters decide to tackle big companies or politicians.
From my experience fans in pro sports believe the worst about orgs basically as a default. Sometimes media orgs get bad reputations like the enquirer or are biased like Jay Mariotti and get banned from a locker room, but fans rarely just blindly accept team statements.
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EPT
