EPTIs athenes still a thing or do we just not build that anymore?
[Patch 5.4] Wubwubwub General Discussion - Page 50
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
Is athenes still a thing or do we just not build that anymore? | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On March 09 2015 17:09 Osmoses wrote: I started playing ziggs mid again. Great fun, but since the nerf it is really hard to consistently land q. I also feel like I HAVE to go tear first because q also happens to be really expensive. Is athenes still a thing or do we just not build that anymore? I would still build it vs someone like LB for the MR boost. It's still a decent item, just not the be all and end all anymore. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
I'm not a terribly seasoned midlaner, but even if I get athenes first against ap bursters and armguard first against ad assassins should I not also get tear? Being able to chuck bombs nonstop lategame I feel is kind of essential towards what makes ziggs strong. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On March 09 2015 18:44 Osmoses wrote: Ya I laned against a LB and pre-6 if she reached me she did 80% of my hp and I thought "oh that's totally fair" and stayed far away from her for the rest of the game :p I'm not a terribly seasoned midlaner, but even if I get athenes first against ap bursters and armguard first against ad assassins should I not also get tear? Being able to chuck bombs nonstop lategame I feel is kind of essential towards what makes ziggs strong. Tear + Morello is probably plenty enough. I feel like late game Grail or Morello (without Tear) you'll be semi ok when you consider you should hopefully be getting most blues if your team is half competent. Grail actually gives you a shit ton of mana in fights when you get an assist/kill. Plus don't forget Elixir of Sorcery gives you an Mp5 boost. Mid game is when I think you would struggle. The period where your base mana pool is still small and you completely rely on Blue + Grail/Morello for things like dragon fights. On the other hand, I don't have much experience with Ziggs, but he seems like he'd be decent at stacking a Tear, and Seraph's Embrace is by no means a bad item. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Run clarity ezpz | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On March 10 2015 04:49 Sonnington wrote: A lot of times I'll build chalice and two doran rings for mana regen. Chalice/Athene's still scale into the best mana regen items. It's just early/mid they're rather mediocre. I'm not a fan of building 2 mana regen items(unless it's tear/roa). If you really want to build both I'd suggest building tear then chalice and leaving chalice unupgraded for a while. I just think athene's is too expensive and not a good item until you have damage items. i agree with this the only character i'd go double mana item on right now is anivia hang onto the chalice for a long time and put the rest of the gold into your dcap or zhonya or whatever | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On March 09 2015 17:09 Osmoses wrote: I started playing ziggs mid again. Great fun, but since the nerf it is really hard to consistently land q. I also feel like I HAVE to go tear first because q also happens to be really expensive. Is athenes still a thing or do we just not build that anymore? When I've played Ziggs recently I feel like I have to go tear + athene's/morello or I just go oom constantly. | ||
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Chemiczny84
Poland458 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 10 2015 09:06 Chemiczny84 wrote: Wow, I see riot spoiled everyone with manaless/practically manaless champs to the point where everyone forgot what "mana management" is, it used to be a part of "mechanics", you know... That would only be part of mechanics if ziggs bombs did enough damage to warrant mana management. But, as it is now he doesn't do much damage, so you're forced to spell spam to get anything done. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Sure you won't burst him but you'll certainly wear him down after awhile. Generally happens that it's not worth staying there instead of going back for items and wards though. They are prretty thin hitbox-wise, but after the months of him just needing to generally lob Qs in people's general direction to hit them without opening himself to cooldown punishment or mana screw I certainly won't be pitying Ziggs players. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On March 10 2015 09:14 Alaric wrote: Ziggs does enough damage to warrant that. People don't realise that before Ziggs got his mana costs amped up somewhere decent he could just perma-push mid even before his first back, Mordekaiser style, and still have enough mana left to lob some Qs at the opponent to harass him. Sure you won't burst him but you'll certainly wear him down after awhile. Generally happens that it's not worth staying there instead of going back for items and wards though. They are prretty thin hitbox-wise, but after the months of him just needing to generally lob Qs in people's general direction to hit them without opening himself to cooldown punishment or mana screw I certainly won't be pitying Ziggs players. Seeing the term "mana screw" in a League discussion makes me all kinds of giddy. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also when you want to stall games there's Xerath now. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Mana management is when you wait for really optimal opportunities to use your spells to get maximum value. Waiting for multi target hits, conditional stuff, after lvling the skill, etc. These concepts are really important and every champion should keep them in mind. However, shit like Ziggs Q is rarely about mana management. The strength of the spell is its really long range and short CD. While you should keep try to hit multiple targets, its almost always beneficial to use the spell, there is always a pretty good opportunity as long as your opponent is within 1200 range and there are minons in the lane...The spell only does damage, so if you aren't using it, you are simply doing less damage. This isn't a good thing, nor is it good mana management most times. You just aren't using your spells. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 10 2015 09:06 Chemiczny84 wrote: Wow, I see riot spoiled everyone with manaless/practically manaless champs to the point where everyone forgot what "mana management" is, it used to be a part of "mechanics", you know... Or it could be that in season 5 every champion in the game had their innate early game mana regen nerfed, and every mana regen item in the game was also nerfed, and junglers are taking blue more than ever before, so champions that need a lot of mana regen are having a harder time in season 5 than they were in season 4. You know, it could be that. | ||
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