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On February 27 2015 05:41 101toss wrote:
The process that's going on is akin to how they phased out sustain (toxic gameplay). Anyone remember old soraka/nunu/revolver stack/vamp scepter/etc? Anyone else remember when people actually picked Vladimir?
Better to remove/rework (effective removal) these champions than to balance them.
So, when do we get to call 'mobility' toxic gameplay and have all of this shit removed/reworked?
"Toxic" in this sense seems to be extremely cyclical, because it seems that 'toxic' actually means 'something had by some champions and not others' which will obviously be a giant merry-go-round.
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On February 27 2015 05:49 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 05:40 Uldridge wrote:On February 27 2015 04:30 Ansibled wrote:
Six items, at least three or four of which are support oriented unless you somehow got enough gold to sell everything else.
Again though, having Mikaels, Locket, Randuins, etc is more useful than having Lich Bane or other damage items. Your job is not to one shot carries and few support heroes even possess a kit where it is possible to do so. Sorry, but please, you're wrong. Yes, in keeping an adc alive that can't peel for himself a Mikaels, Randunis -and if they have alot of aoe damage-, Locket is good. But if you have divers going for your adc who are kinda squishy or if your adc has a bunch of self peel or if you've picked a champ to set up engages, initial burst or flatout blowing someone up with your 'hypothetical 6 items' can be just as good if not better. So the original conversation was talking about selling Sightstone for Lichbane as a sixth item. This isn't about some hypothetical magic land where supports get infinite amounts of gold. Selling your sightstone for Lich Bane is stupid. Lich Bane has no place on support itemisation, including in the lategame. You will never be at a gold/experience threshold, again even in the lategame, to do enough damage and there are almost no supports that have an appropriate kit to do what you're suggesting. What are you planning to do, Flash within 500 range to land a Sona powerchord? You will flash forward into their team and instantly die, support aren't assassins. If the support could easily do what you're suggesting they would be played in lane that gets farm.
the real problem is picking sona when you could have picked amumu
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On February 27 2015 04:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 04:34 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 04:12 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 27 2015 03:57 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 03:42 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:37 Ansibled wrote:
Why would you buy Lichbane when you could buy something useful? Getting more tank stats or even deathcap/zhonya would be better. Lichbane gives you nothing of value as a support unless you're roleplaying a midlaner. Presumably if you're getting lich bane you already have cap/zhonyas. Honestly I think sticking in an abyssal scepter is usually better if your team doesn't already have one. And riot does play the game, and by riot, I mean some diamond people that riot contracted for $20/hr and will probably be out of a job in a month. Got a source to back up this claim? http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2vccm1/challengers_of_reddit_riot_needs_you/It's not explicitly stated there, but a quick lookup says the riot QA job pays $20/hr. You've made a number of incredulous claims today in GD, most of which is opinion/"solo queue playstyle" But plz stop talking out of your ass about stuff you don't know about. I know for a fact that all of Riot's QA positions pay a lot better than $20/hr. What is this "quick lookup" you're referring to? Entry level QA position for riot on glassdoor (I would presume this is an entry-level job, no?) And yeah obviously there's a whole balance team that already exists, but the general QA position has diamond people in there. Also I'm pretty sure Morello got paid more than $20 and he was silver. Also I'm not attacking people for working (any job is respectable), I'm attacking riot for hiring the wrong people for a position that seems shaky at best. Riot has a relatively high turnover rate, after all. Do they have a high turnover rate? That's something I've never heard. Who would you suggest they hire? Who are the "right" people for the job? Morello making X amount of money at Y elo means absolutely nothing.
I honestly think Riot's #1 priority should be hiring a respected person who thinks the opposite of the majority of Rioters. And this has to be a guy with credentials in the business so he doesn't get bullied into being part of the riot hivemind (kinda like Ghostcrawler should have been). I don't care if he is bronze 5, or doesn't even play League. Just a guy (actually they also need a strong female in the room judging by quite a few of their choices) who doesn't buy into the California culture, doesn't care about hippie-dippy things like bullying, and scowls a lot at the champion design team when they come in with "ideas".
Like I said, this is what Ghostcrawler should have been. I know a few people in the industry that would be great, but they all make probably more than Riot would offer and are tied up in long term projects like Kabam and Guild Wars II.
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On February 27 2015 05:59 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 04:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 04:34 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 04:12 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 27 2015 03:57 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 03:42 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:37 Ansibled wrote:
Why would you buy Lichbane when you could buy something useful? Getting more tank stats or even deathcap/zhonya would be better. Lichbane gives you nothing of value as a support unless you're roleplaying a midlaner. Presumably if you're getting lich bane you already have cap/zhonyas. Honestly I think sticking in an abyssal scepter is usually better if your team doesn't already have one. And riot does play the game, and by riot, I mean some diamond people that riot contracted for $20/hr and will probably be out of a job in a month. Got a source to back up this claim? http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2vccm1/challengers_of_reddit_riot_needs_you/It's not explicitly stated there, but a quick lookup says the riot QA job pays $20/hr. You've made a number of incredulous claims today in GD, most of which is opinion/"solo queue playstyle" But plz stop talking out of your ass about stuff you don't know about. I know for a fact that all of Riot's QA positions pay a lot better than $20/hr. What is this "quick lookup" you're referring to? Entry level QA position for riot on glassdoor (I would presume this is an entry-level job, no?) And yeah obviously there's a whole balance team that already exists, but the general QA position has diamond people in there. Also I'm pretty sure Morello got paid more than $20 and he was silver. Also I'm not attacking people for working (any job is respectable), I'm attacking riot for hiring the wrong people for a position that seems shaky at best. Riot has a relatively high turnover rate, after all. Do they have a high turnover rate? That's something I've never heard. Who would you suggest they hire? Who are the "right" people for the job? Morello making X amount of money at Y elo means absolutely nothing. I honestly think Riot's #1 priority should be hiring a respected person who thinks the opposite of the majority of Rioters. And this has to be a guy with credentials in the business so he doesn't get bullied into being part of the riot hivemind (kinda like Ghostcrawler should have been). I don't care if he is bronze 5, or doesn't even play League. Just a guy (actually they also need a strong female in the room judging by quite a few of their choices) who doesn't buy into the California culture, doesn't care about hippie-dippy things like bullying, and scowls a lot at the champion design team when they come in with "ideas". Like I said, this is what Ghostcrawler should have been. I know a few people in the industry that would be great, but they all make probably more than Riot would offer and are tied up in long term projects like Kabam and Guild Wars II.
As an aside to this, people like Marc Merill make me question Riot as a company among other things
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On February 27 2015 05:59 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 04:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 04:34 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 04:12 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 27 2015 03:57 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 03:42 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:37 Ansibled wrote:
Why would you buy Lichbane when you could buy something useful? Getting more tank stats or even deathcap/zhonya would be better. Lichbane gives you nothing of value as a support unless you're roleplaying a midlaner. Presumably if you're getting lich bane you already have cap/zhonyas. Honestly I think sticking in an abyssal scepter is usually better if your team doesn't already have one. And riot does play the game, and by riot, I mean some diamond people that riot contracted for $20/hr and will probably be out of a job in a month. Got a source to back up this claim? http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2vccm1/challengers_of_reddit_riot_needs_you/It's not explicitly stated there, but a quick lookup says the riot QA job pays $20/hr. You've made a number of incredulous claims today in GD, most of which is opinion/"solo queue playstyle" But plz stop talking out of your ass about stuff you don't know about. I know for a fact that all of Riot's QA positions pay a lot better than $20/hr. What is this "quick lookup" you're referring to? Entry level QA position for riot on glassdoor (I would presume this is an entry-level job, no?) And yeah obviously there's a whole balance team that already exists, but the general QA position has diamond people in there. Also I'm pretty sure Morello got paid more than $20 and he was silver. Also I'm not attacking people for working (any job is respectable), I'm attacking riot for hiring the wrong people for a position that seems shaky at best. Riot has a relatively high turnover rate, after all. Do they have a high turnover rate? That's something I've never heard. Who would you suggest they hire? Who are the "right" people for the job? Morello making X amount of money at Y elo means absolutely nothing. I honestly think Riot's #1 priority should be hiring a respected person who thinks the opposite of the majority of Rioters. And this has to be a guy with credentials in the business so he doesn't get bullied into being part of the riot hivemind (kinda like Ghostcrawler should have been). I don't care if he is bronze 5, or doesn't even play League. Just a guy (actually they also need a strong female in the room judging by quite a few of their choices) who doesn't buy into the California culture, doesn't care about hippie-dippy things like bullying, and scowls a lot at the champion design team when they come in with "ideas". Like I said, this is what Ghostcrawler should have been. I know a few people in the industry that would be great, but they all make probably more than Riot would offer and are tied up in long term projects like Kabam and Guild Wars II.
heeeey
i think i match this job description perfectly
riot hire me for this pls
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On February 27 2015 06:34 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 05:59 cLutZ wrote:On February 27 2015 04:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 04:34 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 04:12 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 27 2015 03:57 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 27 2015 03:42 101toss wrote:On February 27 2015 03:37 Ansibled wrote:
Why would you buy Lichbane when you could buy something useful? Getting more tank stats or even deathcap/zhonya would be better. Lichbane gives you nothing of value as a support unless you're roleplaying a midlaner. Presumably if you're getting lich bane you already have cap/zhonyas. Honestly I think sticking in an abyssal scepter is usually better if your team doesn't already have one. And riot does play the game, and by riot, I mean some diamond people that riot contracted for $20/hr and will probably be out of a job in a month. Got a source to back up this claim? http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2vccm1/challengers_of_reddit_riot_needs_you/It's not explicitly stated there, but a quick lookup says the riot QA job pays $20/hr. You've made a number of incredulous claims today in GD, most of which is opinion/"solo queue playstyle" But plz stop talking out of your ass about stuff you don't know about. I know for a fact that all of Riot's QA positions pay a lot better than $20/hr. What is this "quick lookup" you're referring to? Entry level QA position for riot on glassdoor (I would presume this is an entry-level job, no?) And yeah obviously there's a whole balance team that already exists, but the general QA position has diamond people in there. Also I'm pretty sure Morello got paid more than $20 and he was silver. Also I'm not attacking people for working (any job is respectable), I'm attacking riot for hiring the wrong people for a position that seems shaky at best. Riot has a relatively high turnover rate, after all. Do they have a high turnover rate? That's something I've never heard. Who would you suggest they hire? Who are the "right" people for the job? Morello making X amount of money at Y elo means absolutely nothing. I honestly think Riot's #1 priority should be hiring a respected person who thinks the opposite of the majority of Rioters. And this has to be a guy with credentials in the business so he doesn't get bullied into being part of the riot hivemind (kinda like Ghostcrawler should have been). I don't care if he is bronze 5, or doesn't even play League. Just a guy (actually they also need a strong female in the room judging by quite a few of their choices) who doesn't buy into the California culture, doesn't care about hippie-dippy things like bullying, and scowls a lot at the champion design team when they come in with "ideas". Like I said, this is what Ghostcrawler should have been. I know a few people in the industry that would be great, but they all make probably more than Riot would offer and are tied up in long term projects like Kabam and Guild Wars II. heeeey i think i match this job description perfectly riot hire me for this pls
He said a respected person.
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On February 27 2015 05:10 lefty wrote:
Tried out the new Mordekaiser. What was the point of the remake? You would need to give him an arcane shift like skill to make him barely useable.
I just tried him, and it's definitely highly noticeable. The W speed works on minions so you can use it in lane to close or escape, the Q range makes it a reasonable second max even against ranged opponents, it's actually pretty good. He still has the same problems of needing a team with hard engage, but he's definitely much nicer to play now.
Oh, and it wasn't a remake, stop calling it that lol.
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On February 27 2015 05:49 Ansibled wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 27 2015 05:40 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 04:30 Ansibled wrote:
Six items, at least three or four of which are support oriented unless you somehow got enough gold to sell everything else.
Again though, having Mikaels, Locket, Randuins, etc is more useful than having Lich Bane or other damage items. Your job is not to one shot carries and few support heroes even possess a kit where it is possible to do so. Sorry, but please, you're wrong. Yes, in keeping an adc alive that can't peel for himself a Mikaels, Randunis -and if they have alot of aoe damage-, Locket is good. But if you have divers going for your adc who are kinda squishy or if your adc has a bunch of self peel or if you've picked a champ to set up engages, initial burst or flatout blowing someone up with your 'hypothetical 6 items' can be just as good if not better. So the original conversation was talking about selling Sightstone for Lichbane as a sixth item. This isn't about some hypothetical magic land where supports get infinite amounts of gold. Items like Mikaels and Locket give you a lot more effectiveness in fights for how much you spend. Selling your sightstone for Lich Bane is stupid. Lich Bane has no place on support itemisation, including in the lategame. You will never be at a gold/experience threshold, again even in the lategame, to do enough damage and there are almost no supports that have an appropriate kit to do what you're suggesting. This kind of ability to blow people up is vision reliant too, and you're selling sightstone to make this happen. Even if you have itemised something like Deathcap/Lich/Void, you're still not going to be at a strong enough item threshold to kill an ADC with everything up at 60 minutes. You're never going to get to a point where you are at a comparable item level to your midlaner in a game that isn't troll and you sacrifice so much team utility and power to even try. What are you planning to do, Flash within 500 range to land a Sona powerchord? You will flash forward into their team and instantly die, support aren't assassins. The important targets will have some form of defense in Banshees/QSS and you won't do enough damage to kill anything with a Lich Bane. If the support could easily do what you're suggesting they would be played in lane that gets farm.
You deteriorated from the original conversation as soon as you mentioned damage items.
If you are approaching 6 items as a support you are either way ahead, became super fed (I wonder how that happens) or it's ultra lategame. What do YOU think happens when it's ultra lategame and you swap out your tankstats and utility for burst (which in turn you can either use on the frontline or the backline)
And to be clear, it's not that I'm advocating here to build solely damage items as support (btw, with 3 or 4 yellow trinket upgrades and 1 upgraded sweeper you can actually cover more sight than 1 sightstone could), but you could make a case for it.
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Do you think Kassadin and Veigar are even worse than Ryze and Evelynn now?
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Baa?21248 Posts
Below a certain point it's pretty futile to try to rank who sucks more. They all suck zz.
Well IDK about Kass but Veigar Ryze and Eve are all dumpster tier, not like it matters who sucks a bit more.
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On February 27 2015 07:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Below a certain point it's pretty futile to try to rank who sucks more. They all suck zz.
Well IDK about Kass but Veigar Ryze and Eve are all dumpster tier, not like it matters who sucks a bit more.
rip nemesis draft
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While kass is much weaker putting him that low is just crazy.I mean the champ was basically a fp/ban in almost every game.Falling down to average would be more appropriate.
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On February 27 2015 08:17 nafta wrote:
While kass is much weaker putting him that low is just crazy.I mean the champ was basically a fp/ban in almost every game.Falling down to average would be more appropriate.
He was first pick or ban in most competitive games because he had a 700 range engage/disengage that's instant cast and uninterruptible if he isn't hard CCed beforehand (stun/silence).
Now it's basically Flash range (maybe a little more? I don't remember Flash's distance) and it forces him to be on the front line before he can engage, meaning he is basically required to go with a build path similar to Ryze (RoA + Frozen Heart + Tear) to turn into a tanky bruiser AP mage and not the assassin mage people were playing him as.
So yes, he's shit tier now.
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Just a heads up be careful when playing kat. I don't know if they changed something or what but during a teamfight I got like 4 resets and was mashing EWQ super hard and after the teamfight all my keys got glitched and the only spell i could use was W and R. Somehow my targetted spells stopped working and I also couldn't recall or use ignite. Weirdest thing ever and I was just playing her how I usually play her. This was at 25 ping too, and it's never happened to me before.
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On February 27 2015 08:55 RaphaelSanzio wrote:
Just a heads up be careful when playing kat. I don't know if they changed something or what but during a teamfight I got like 4 resets and was mashing EWQ super hard and after the teamfight all my keys got glitched and the only spell i could use was W and R. Somehow my targetted spells stopped working and I also couldn't recall or use ignite. Weirdest thing ever and I was just playing her how I usually play her. This was at 25 ping too, and it's never happened to me before.
you have to self cast something to unstick them
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 27 2015 08:51 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 08:17 nafta wrote:
While kass is much weaker putting him that low is just crazy.I mean the champ was basically a fp/ban in almost every game.Falling down to average would be more appropriate. He was first pick or ban in most competitive games because he had a 700 range engage/disengage that's instant cast and uninterruptible if he isn't hard CCed beforehand (stun/silence). Now it's basically Flash range (maybe a little more? I don't remember Flash's distance) and it forces him to be on the front line before he can engage, meaning he is basically required to go with a build path similar to Ryze (RoA + Frozen Heart + Tear) to turn into a tanky bruiser AP mage and not the assassin mage people were playing him as. So yes, he's shit tier now.
Not really, you still have second flash and everything Kassadin was doing in midgame was R+Flash into team, E and hourglass.
Nothing prevents him from doing same thing now, just need to walk second more.
Even though, not getting anything in return is kinda pitiful.
Only difference outside of range is that you're forced to go double stacking items now probably instead of RoA into golden clock, but it's not a big deal.
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On February 27 2015 08:59 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 08:55 RaphaelSanzio wrote:
Just a heads up be careful when playing kat. I don't know if they changed something or what but during a teamfight I got like 4 resets and was mashing EWQ super hard and after the teamfight all my keys got glitched and the only spell i could use was W and R. Somehow my targetted spells stopped working and I also couldn't recall or use ignite. Weirdest thing ever and I was just playing her how I usually play her. This was at 25 ping too, and it's never happened to me before. you have to self cast something to unstick them
Kat has no self castable spells though. So there's like mikael's...
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On February 27 2015 10:26 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 08:59 Frolossus wrote:On February 27 2015 08:55 RaphaelSanzio wrote:
Just a heads up be careful when playing kat. I don't know if they changed something or what but during a teamfight I got like 4 resets and was mashing EWQ super hard and after the teamfight all my keys got glitched and the only spell i could use was W and R. Somehow my targetted spells stopped working and I also couldn't recall or use ignite. Weirdest thing ever and I was just playing her how I usually play her. This was at 25 ping too, and it's never happened to me before. you have to self cast something to unstick them Kat has no self castable spells though. So there's like mikael's...
you can still press the keys to self-cast and I think it counts. I would selfcast W and see if that fixes it,
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Is the new Veigar really that terrible? I mean people were niche picking him in support for the stun but the new Q gives him a lot more options in lane and the nerf to R means that he isn't as silly where he just blows everyone up. I would feel that he was meant to be a master of mages kind of thing where the R really hit AP champs hard (kinda like DotA's mana void hit casters), it still will be able to gib them pretty well with the bonus damage from their own AP, just that you won't see him random trololo burst leona and the poor jungler.
Also, I find all these Riot please get better dev team requests really ridiculous. While listening to "public opinion" is important, it shouldn't be the sole factor that determines what does and does not work. For those more familiar with M:tG and Mark Rosewater's design column (Do check it out if you don't btw), they identify three types of players that generate different experiences and have their own perception of fun when playing the game.
Most of us here who regularly watch the LCS/LCK/LPL and trawl these forums often fall into a more competitive demographic (or are heavily influenced by it) and thus would feel that the design of the game should cater towards us, which it does with all the new high mechanics high reward champions and the way they often tune things towards rewarding good play. But for the average person who plays a game or two, perhaps buys a skin for their fav champion, doesn't watch LCK and has never touched a game of ranked, their perspective is going to be really different on what 'good' and 'fun' is.
I mean this might sound like that ridiculous silent majority argument, but my point is- There are different demographics of players; These players perceive fun differently; It doesn't take Faker to know what is fun (It is possible that his perception of it might be really really warped)
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New login page is so good, several times i've been meaning to log in and ended up just alt tabbing with kinetic sona in the background for 10 minutes :p
Gameplay question: do junglers sell their smite item once they're full build?
Was playing lee sin against an all ad team, and hit 6 items before anyone else (was snowballing pretty hard) with stalkers (warrior), randuins, sunfire, thornmail, tabi and lw. had 5k gold in the bank but no idea what to swap out.
Ended up trading lw for hydra since our adc got fed enough to deal with their frontline on his own, but wasn't able to see if that felt stronger since we ended at that point. But basically, should I sell stalkers when I hit full build? (and would there have been any other more optimal items, pls no warmogs vs sunfire math arguments :p)
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EPT
